Hitchens actually went to the most evil places on earth and reported as objectively as anyone could. He saw both sides and reported like no one else. I did not agree with his stance on Iraq but he sure as hell made me think twice about it. I find myself divided on the issue of our involvement in Iraq because he visited the country for three decades and saw Saddam first hand from start to finish. Who else can say that?
@landesdesign Coming from someone from someone who lives in Hong Kong and honestly doesn't know the issues too well here, can you elaborate about why you hold your stance in Iraq?
Atheist leaders like Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins are brave enough to tell the truth about Islam. I wish most who call themselves followers of these men would follow suit. It amazes me that leftist atheist have a macochistic need to defend Islam and blame there own country
My issue with the caste system is that it feels very oppressive, if you are born in to a very low class you can never access opportunities to give your children a better life, this allows the rich to always profit off the poor. I am glad to hear that this system is less popular today and it makes sense that it is more political than religious because I find it to be in contrary to the little I know about Hinduism. Do you find there are many tensions between the classes?
As an Indian, I thank Hitchens for highlighting what's going on in our part of the world and how Islam is a threat TO INDIA as well. Almost NOBODY in the west want to talk about Hindus being slaughtered by muslims because they want to hate Hindus too. They want to hate the entire brown population, which is why they just didn't care about Islamic terrorism until it hit THEM. How many Hindus were kidnapped, killed by muslim terrorists before 9/11.
@tarun1982 I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Of course there are people in the West who dislike any group that is different than them, this is NOT a Western way of thinking its a human way of thinking, your implying that racism only exists there, which is not true. Hinduism is actually a religion that is much more respected than many others in the West (even though it incorporates a caste system which I find very racist.) Many Westerners are brown people.
@MELISSA3536 i wouldnt really call it racism.. its only people of South Asian decent tehy seem to hate or want to hate the most.. which leads me to think that there must be a lot of things we are doing wrong too.. like we havent really made a mark on the Western world (at least not America) in any way, the way America has made it's impact felt around the world.. i understand that all that counts. but since we are such a large population i thought it might be wise of them to try to learn a bit.
I am a Hindu and would like to clarify on the caste system,you have referred to as racist.Caste is nothing but what you call "division of labour".Our religion doesn't preach one caste is superior to another, just it segregates responsibilties for an improved society.Caste is not based on birth,it is based on occupation.
What happened in medieval India was that "Brahmins"(teachers and priests) became powerful and they introduced caste based on birth,superiority of one caste over ..
It was politics,not religion, and was helped because Brahmins kept education limited to themselves.More illiterates would mean they'd become more powerful.
Hindus started to grow out of this in the early 19th century through liberal thinkers. But India has some pockets with very poor literacy rates where today's politicians still play this caste card for votes.I am sure with education all Hindus will be able to tell religion from politics.
@tarun1982 I will agree than many Westerners are ignorant of the happenings of other countries as all people are limited to the information they have available, the international media is certainly a joke. But to suggest that Westerners are any more ignorant than you of world happenings is not only an unwarranted judgement but a hypocritical statement as you are just as limited in your understanding of others. We should be working together as a people not against one another
@MELISSA3536 no its not Westerners in general... like in the UK they seem to know a lot about us.. well they at least know that we are basically HINDUS.. Most Americans dont know who a Hindu is .. they keep asking us why we have "holy wars" or why we cover our women and all those things.. i have met people who thought Gandhi is a muslim... what do u do?.. just give up.. it's not going to change. It's not at all that bad in most European countries. come on, they know we are Hindus and stuff..
@tarun1982 I am 40 years old and have lived in the US all my life, I think your making generalizations, most of the people I know not only know what Hindu refers to but look at it as one of the most nonviolent religions/ways of living out there. I have a feeling that you are just as ignorant about others as you claim we are about you. Your comments give the appearance that you are both ignorant and racist. Peace
@MELISSA3536 sorry but i can only judge from what i see on the internet.. Well we are racist lol i wouldnt deny that but racist towards white Americans .. i definitely wasn't being racist, miss :) .. just speaking out of hurt.. i got so much of abuse on the internet after 9/11.. that i was glad i wasn't in the US.. but that also made me sad. people saying "all Indians go back home" "we should nuke indians" and all that.. maybe i was too hurt at that time and i had to accept the reality that...
@tarun1982 that this whole perception i had of us being compatible in the western world and the western way of life had to change completely and we had to accept the fact that we were being perceived as the worst enemy to the people there because of a group of people that were as much our enemies (if not more) as they were to you.
@tarun1982 I wasn't calling you or anyone else a racist. The comment section on the internet is probably not the best place to find information. I agree that many of us here have fallen prey to the media propaganda that lead us into war to begin with, and has brought forth an ugly prejudice against what we don't understand, however many many people here don't feel that way, quite the to the contrary many of us are against the hate and wars our government sold to us. Peace
@MELISSA3536 I'm sorry.. I'm not sure which "wars" you are referring to. But I am not really against any that are going on at the moment. I was very much FOR the "war against terror" or "war against Islam" or whatever because I am on the other side and I am definitely against the Islamists. It's the muslims that might hate you for those wars.. I dont. On the contrary, I am glad something is being done about these muslim fanatics.
@MELISSA3536 AS far as the US is concerned, I give up and we, as a nation, have given up and its not like a sad thing.. Its just that your people and our people dont have much in common.
That is why we are such close friends with Israel. They are the only ones who understand the situation of Hindu India. They face a threat from terrorists in Palestine just like we face terror threats from Pakistan. And hey have been helping us since ages to fight these Islamist trouble makers.
@tarun1982 I thought a lot about our discussion last night and feel sadness that you were treated the way you described, I agree that many Americans are unaware of the situation that exists in your part of the world but do not mistake ignorance for uncaring. My response to your initial comment was very much because I like you do not want to be grouped in with people who represent hate and unkindness.
@tarun1982 As a result of our conversation I will make an effort to learn more about the culture, politics, and religion of your people and share that knowledge with those around me. May your life be filled with peace and happiness.
@tarun1982 Many Americans are indeed wholly misinformed about world issues, but thats mostly because many simply don't care. I'm an American and believe me I know. Many of my fellow Americans haven't even taken the time read their own Constitution or Bill of Rights. They'd much rather watch American idol of their favorite Hollywood actor spew their nonsense than do some actual real research.
@gluetubeserver 1. He is dead, and yet we are still watching him. 2. Many people on the Internet are not native English speakers, and one should not make fun of them. Having said that, I have no idea what sicker57is trying to say.
Well said Christopher Hitchens, spot on. Thank goodness someone has the courage and belief to tellit like it is about this vindictive primitive ideology. The 'religion of peace'.. What a joke
@joope666 :... Cont... Additionally, because war is hell this does not mean that violence is never the answer to a problem. Without violence from 'good' people, society would fall apart. As in the civil space, so on the world stage.
Also, my assumptions are that America is relatively 'good' at self restraint, and that this might even be one of the reasons it fails to defeat its enemies - as the US does not race to the bottom it puts itself at disadvantage.
@joope666 : I agree with the implication that the most sadistic and least restrained people have an advantage in war, and that warfare is murder, it is sadism. And that few sides in a conflict have nothing to be ashamed of. However, most participants do tend to control themselves and take pride in doing so, and its the most absurd relativism to say that this self restraint is valueless, because violence is inherently nasty.
@Joope666 :(cont) I believe I mentioned the bombing of Caen as an example of the 'blunt instrument' reality. Also, there's the RAF's failure to hit ANYTHING before Area Bombing in 1942, the retaliatory principle, and the utilitarian argument that victory, or a quicker victory, would save lives.
@Joope666 : I MAY be 'in denial', but I'd not set out to deceive you. Promise. Re: Berlin (why not Dresden?) I feel its really quite sinister to look at the Second World War from a neutral perspective, actually. Besides, such a blunt analysis ignores the mindset of the time, and the situation.
@CBfrmcardiff I don't look at WWII from a neutral perspective believe me, i fully understand that had the Nazis won life on earth would be even more shit than it is now, and they would probably still be systematically exterminating races of non european descent (and many who are). People are pissed at america despite it's proportionally 'lower' number of war crimes because it has the most potential/expectation to do good, and because those who infiltrate it's government commit brazen hypocrisy.
@CBfrmcardiff Additionally, my point was that it is somewhat wrong to imply one side's conduct during war is somehow 'humane' or 'morally superior' because the reality of war is a race to the bottom where whoever disposes of more humanity quicker wins. There were many summary executions of 'axis' conscripts by allied forces and troop sadism is just a reality of any side in any conflict and army mentality, even in the U.N. we see this.
... Often this seems to be accompanied by 'initiation' into niche intellectual ideas or perspectives which specifically attack conventional assumptions. They are then disillusioned with the mainstream common sense approach, which in reality has much going for it. I'm sure you can think of many groups like this: anarchists, communists, come to mind. Maybe also 'neoconservatives', many of whom started on the extreme Left.
@joope666 you can be 'stupid' without having a low IQ, as 'stupid' can mean "one who acts foolishly". In fact, people of above-average intelligence can fall into the trap of believing they can see through the falacious 'common sense' assumptions of the masses...
@joope666 : In a comparison between "America" and "Islamic terrorism", how can you believe the US is NOT morally superior? It's behaviour in a war is more restrained, full stop. But I could add it's also more restrained about what it considers a 'just cause' for violence (eg. No massacres of Muslims because someone insulted Christ).
@CBfrmcardiff No, it isn't you fucking moron, and you only think that because you have either viewed information selectively or been fed sanitized information. Exactly how do you judge that btw when all the information on American conduct in war is sanitized in 'perception management' by the pentagon first? Congratulations, an idiot is you.
@joope666 : I too thought you were a bit arrogant, there, in saying that you knocked mysock351w into a corner. IMHO he was the more eloquent of you two, and a good debater. No offense, but I thought he was mostly 'winning'. Of course, I'm biased, since I agreed with him.
@CBfrmcardiff Of course you are biased, you had the sheer arrogance to say 'America is morally superior'. Also, he only began replying with (relatively) rational responses AFTER i CONTINUOUSLY pointed out shouting LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST! Is not a valid arguement. If you think he was the more 'eloquent' of the two, then you obviously didn't read the full exchange or have a warped perception of things.
@CBfrmcardiff Additionally, deliberately using factual inaccuracies you KNOW are FALSE (which he did, and later proved he knew they were false to begin with) simply to 'win' does not make you a good debater, it maeks you a machiavellian debater.
@CBfrmcardiff At any rate you too have proven deliberately deceitful or at the very least in denial/out of touch with reality when you repeatedly asserted that the deliberate mass civilian slaying in berlin was first 'only due to technology' and then 'somehow justified'.
The west did not 'create' Islamic terrorism what it did do is EXACERBATE and EMPOWER it through direct military support/funding and driving their recruitment numbers through the roof via the torture/murder/rape of civilians and it's own hypocrisy managing to create the perception that Al Qaeda is somehow the lesser of two evils and/or a champion for the poor/oppressed.
Joope666: re: child brides; my Asian landlady was speaking yesterday of how her mother got married at 11. I'm not sure this is anything to do with Islam, more with cultural routine and economic reality in impoverished countries. On the other hand it must still go on, so, you're both right.
@CBfrmcardiff Oh i know Islam contributes to the child bride problem because christianity did as well and it is primarily religion which first introduced the concept/desire for depravity into human consciousness, however i am also sure mysock is wrong about the majority of the arab/muslim population being pedophiles, sexual attraction to children is a specific pathology which is always a minority in any population.
That example's not remotely rational (though it would be, if the terrorists were pissed-off moderates, or Russians). I think the whole "proxy wars" thing is overstated. Sure, in that example the West funded Afghan resistance to invasion, I'm not sure there was anything nefarious in that.
@CBfrmcardiff Again it is not the fact that they funded/used afghans to fight the russians, it is the fact they picked the most religiously radical resistance fighters, and then abandoned the country to a power vacuum and brutal infighting between factions. Again, you have nothing to offer which would suggest the religious component is much more then identity politics and playing to the fears/image the west has of the middle east.
@monsieurhassan Right back at you pal, btw i hope you realise the glaring irony of deliberately expending effort to express that you 'don't give a shit' about something, but then you are probably too stupid to realise that.
I was trying to point out the self-absorbed attitudes of youtube commenters, and their disillusionment that the world revolves around their petty discussions and not the other way around . .. but you are too conceited to understand that
@monsieurhassan Wrong dipshit, this is not a case of me believing the tail wags the dog, just keep your dumbass assumptions about yourself, it is quite conceited to believe you actually know what i think about anything other than what i have explicitly said.
well guess what fuckface, you just proved yourself wrong . . . your over-enthusiasm about expressing your dumb opinions speaks for itself . .. I guess someone needs a lesson about "irony"
@monsieurhassan Wrong again dipshit, the reality is it takes minimal effort and time, although i do have a certain intolerance for being misdefined and misinformation. I guess someone needs a lesson in self-projection.
@Joope666 : 3./unexploded ordinance: A true issue, relating to the cluster bombs issue. But not one often mentioned by terrorist ideologues. You seem to feel that personal tragedy causes terrorism, rather than one's political/ideological/religious views. I think in reality if that were true things would be much easier, people would abandon violence for a modest improvement in their lives or reduction of misery.
@CBfrmcardiff You yourself mentioned that the religious component/propaganda is largely identity politics, for the average member of al qaeda on the ground it is these things and the general hypocrisy of superpowers, america in particular because of the image it projects and particular position of dominance. People take up violence because their lives are worth shit to begin with when you live in poverty and are constantly pissed on by superpowers.
@Joope666 : 1./ Proxy wars: as far as Muslims are concerned, you must be referring to Iraq. None of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi or Iranian, Bin Laden's country also supported Iraq, so this isn't a sufficient explanation. 2./war crimes: every country tends to cover up crimes, America less than others. In this war, their enemies are especially ruthless. And they boast about it. Look at the sectarian atrocities in Iraq. This can't, then, be a rational cause of anti-Americanism.
@CBfrmcardiff No i am referring to the abuse of 3rd world nations/peoples in proxy wars by superpowers, America in particular which proves their undeniable hypocrisy. Proxy wars like the one in Afghanistan where the CIA trained/funded Al Qaeda when there were less religiously radical resistance fighters to pick. It is a very rational cause of terrorism, and anti-americanism.
@mysock351W I may hate myself and society, but that is merely because i have a deeper understanding/connection to the human condition then you do. Also, as i have showed it is YOU who attempts to undermine democracy, not me. :)
I wouldn't know whether you actually called joope666 (as he claims) a liberal or not, but to be an idiot doesn't necessarily mean to be a liberal (although unfortunately it often does). That's why there is a fine accurate word "libtard". Being liberal myself i often point this out, and gladly use the mentioned term. I certainly won't abandon my basic liberal principles because of mental teenagers.
@aaxxes Take a look through the previous comments, one of his responses when i backed him into a corner was to copypasta LEFTIST! LEFTIST! LEFTIST! until the character limit ran out. I'm 26 btw.
@aaxxes Sorry jackass, i am only deemed 'liberal' when arguing with neocons, when i argue with liberals i am supposedly a neocon. If arguing with chinese communists i am a capitalist/proponent for democracy, and then vice versa. Obviously i cannot be all of these things, and in reality i am not ANY of these things.
Additionally, when i was young my IQ was recorded as 127, simply because you call me mentally underdeveloped does not negate the reality i am in all likelihood much smarter than you.
I didn't say, nor i think you can be, any of the mentioned. I said you're a liberal retard. If the word "liberal" in the expression bothers you, it's fine with me. On the other hand, if the word "retard" bothers you, there's nothing can be done about it. Your reply, as a comical paradigm, shows it the best.
@aaxxes Well it does bother me, given that not only is my IQ no doubt higher than yours, i was invariably selected for high achiever classes for gifted students, this is not a point of pride for me but since you immediately resorted to the 'you are stupid' argument i figured i'd prove you wrong. And again, since you obviously got no valid argument to offer, simply shut the fuck up eh?
As for your kind proposition, i hope you'll understand that eventhough i do it from time to time, i can't spend my time in vain arguing with every single libtard who cannot distinguish between "leftist" and "liberal". My life is just not long enough for that.
@aaxxes Sorry dumbshit, but i am neither leftest, nor liberal, and yes you are too chicken shit to offer up any legitimate response because you have NONE. I knew my IQ was a good 25 points above yours, farewell.
@aaxxes However, if you actually have a valid argument/reason to believe any of the things i have said are false, i am perfectly willing to listen. If not, you are merely a dipshit with nothing to say/offer but an unwarranted opinion and personal attacks.
Now, if you want to understand more about Islam rather than just bloviating about it, there are very good books by R. Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Bernard Lewis, Ibn Warraq (his pen name) et al. Hell, if you want to be a lazy fuck just watch their vids on YT. But either way, you show that you dont fully grasp the subject.
@mysock351W To claim one fully grasps ANY subject is probably a definite sign of insanity/delusion, you on the other hadn have repeated MULTIPLE HISTORICAL INACCURACIES, some of which you have proven you KNEW were FALSE. Don't even try to criticise me when you are an admitted and obvious liar and hypocrit, dipshit.
Of course, you'll try to pass the fatuous argument "so is christianity" like the brain-dead PC idiots do, but its not so. The closest it came was maybe the middle ages, but the King held much of the power as well, and the cannon offered no real clear stratagy of governance. On the contrary, the Quran and Hadith DO form a complete system that dictates the most minute details of Islamic life, and forms the backbone of their constitutions.
@mysock351W You forget or deliberately ignore there was a time when governments were servant to christianity, it was BY FAR the dominant institution and DICTATED much of law and how society was structured. You obviously understand nothing you speak about. Even if Islam's influence over politics was/is vastly greater than christianity's, what exactly do you think that proves again?
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
@joope666 I just cant help but come back and state that your one sided arguments are showing through with your comment on the bombing of Japan. That argument fails to take into account that Japan was under state shintoism, and that all civilians where expected to fight to the death. Its much the same with the Kamikaze's, in that death is seen as superior to dishonor. Its likely had we dealt with Japan in the conventional way, there would have been close to an order of magnitude more fatalities.
@mysock351W Again, no it is you who has proved they are 'one-sided' and lack capacity or desire for critical analysis, sorry that's just the truth. 'Death before dishonor', that's a U.S. army slogan isn't it? Japan was trying to surrender, which was difficult because they had backed themselves into a corner. They could have exploded a few nukes off the shore of japan but instead chose to target cities because they could and wanted to see how well their new toys worked.
@joope666 Lastly, your WWII comments are nothing more than arm-chair rantings, made from the comfort garnered from the fruits of western society that you so seem to hate. Could they have dropped the bomb in the ocean? Sure. Would it have worked? Maybe, but probably not. They could have also invaded conventionally and racked up a couple million more casualties. They did what they had to do to bring a very ugly time in history to a close. If you had your way we'd all be chanting sieg heils now.
@mysock351W My comments on WWII are historically accurate and reserved, yours are historically inaccurate and DELIBERATELY DECEITFUL, I don't give a fuck what your 'opinion' about my comments is you stupid twat because you obviously don't give two shits about the truth, it's you who hates democracy not me bud :). They could have ignited nukes off the shore and the possibility/reality of TOTAL OBLITERATION would have forced the japanese surrender all the same, PERIOD. Asswipe.
Again, jdope, so it gets through, the problem with your arguments are not necessarily that theyre all wrong, as you like to imply with mine. The problem is that theyre ONE sided. You dont bother to look at anything else that you dont want to.
@mysock351W Again dipshit, so it gets through, the problem is not that i am 'one-sided', it is that you are so blindsided you can't distinguish between someone attacking your faulty belief system and defending another. I am not defending any of the other states/religions you keep bringing up to distract from the point, they are all variations of the same cancer to me. Your arguments however ARE one-sided, WRONG and DELIBERATELY DECEITFUL as you have shown repeatedly.
@joope666 What you say does not ultimately have sufficient explanitory power to demonstrate why we see some of the problems that we see today. To lump together Islamic terrorism with so called "western" terrorism shows that you lack a basic understanding of the issue. It also does it even remotely explain with sufficient clarity why they do what they do.
@mysock351W Wow, that was unexpectedly rational. However, I don't believe i ever claimed to have a 'total explanation' for the causes of terrorism, and attempting to give one in this character limit would be insulting. What i do remember saying however, is that the systematic abuses by global superpowers and state-funded terror contributes greatly to the motives of many terrorists, and that religion is a severely over-stated factor compared to personal tragedy, as has been said by CIA officials.
@joope666 Its not that yours doesnt explain all of it, its that it explains very LITTLE of it. That so called "abuse" is rolled out by them because they know that there are anti-government cranks and lunatics that will buy the explanation. Its a subterfuge meant to confuse. Typical MO for Islamists. Utlimately, Islamic terrorism is rooted in the ideological beleif systems of Islam.
@mysock351W You ignore all reality/common sense and claim that a book is more capable of inciting violence then the combination of poverty, systematic abuse and personal tragedy, i.e. western bombs decimating families, and the unexploded ordinance left behind to keep killing and dismembering kids. You must be right, NONE of that stuff factors into their reasoning/motives at all, oh no it is ALL Islam, either explain your logic-defying conclusion or keep your ignorant mouth shut.
@joope666 The quran is essentially Mein Kampf meets the old testament. Its a polemic of hate and imperialistic world domination. Thats what it was created for, to justify and guide the expansion of the arab empire from around 700 AD onward. On top of that, the quran is considered settled in the islamic jurisprudence, and as such, is unchangeable. The bible can be revised and does not directly mandate violence. Again, your comparing apples and cucumbers.
@mysock351W "The bible can be revised and does not directly mandate violence." - AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
Do you know how many passages there are in the bible directly mandating violence for old, irrelevant traditions/acts? JESUS YOU ARE STUPID AND DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DO US ALL A FAVOUR AND STOP TALKING BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DIPSHIT..
@joope666 "Do you know how many passages there are in the bible directly mandating violence for old, irrelevant traditions/acts?" How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf. Your missing a key piece of information. Sure, the bible DEPICTS violence, and has the occasional rumbling in it, but in the Quran, its a consistant theme throughout.
@mysock351W For one the bible and mein kumpf are not the same you idiot again you try the bullshit strawman argument, what was that you were saying about equivocation fallacies? Dipshit. Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler, that is equivalent to saying the best way to analyze a political party/group is not through their policy/action, but through the sum total of their propaganda, i.e. their own bullshit. Stupid.
@joope666 "For one the bible and mein kumpf are not the same you idiot again you try the bullshit strawman argument"
Did you even bother to read what I said? Of course not, just went on throwing a temper-tantrum.
"How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it (the bible/quran)? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf. Your missing a key piece of information" <---READ IT AGAIN.
@mysock351W Sorry dipshit, it is you who habitually misses information, or chooses to ignore it because it contradicts you.
"Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler, that is equivalent to saying the best way to analyze a political party/group is not through their policy/action, but through the sum total of their propaganda, i.e. their own bullshit. Stupid." <--- READ IT AGAIN, YOU ILLITERATE FUCKING MORON.
@joope666 ""Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler" Actually, it is a prerequisit to really understand it. This is especially true with Islam. Otherwise, your just going off of heresay from other people. Islam is an entire political ideology and system, not just a religion. The fact that you DONT know that shows that you dont have nearly as much knowledge as you like to purport.
@mysock351W No, it isn't a prerequisite. While it is certainly helpful to have a familiarity with such texts, knowing every single phrase in the bible/quran is NOT a prerequisite to developing a functional and (relatively) complete understanding of said institutions. One need only look at their actions/effects on reality and the people under/outside said ideologies, it is not 'heresay' to look at historical FACT, then again you obviously don't care about the truth given your earlier lies.
@joope666 "READ IT AGAIN, YOU ILLITERATE FUCKING MORON." Your the illiterate moron that misread my post to begin with. I did not say that they where the same. I was using them as an EXAMPLE. I was not addressing the second part.
For the second bit, as I said, to understand any ideology requires that you understand what it is that they believe at their core. To fully understand economic marxism would require at least a cursory familiarity with Das Kapital and other works by Marx.
@mysock351W "Your the illiterate moron" - It's 'you're' not 'your', you illiterate fucking moron.
"How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it (the bible/quran)? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf." - Obvious attempt to equate the two in this context, NT asswipe.
And again, such texts are not what they necessarily believe, so much as claim to believe.
@joope666 "CLEARLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DIPSHIT.."
All your really doing is just trying to substitute insults and anger for a real argument and analysis. You cant legitimately say that unless you've studied both. We can also see each in action in Egypt currently. The Copts are being killed dozens at a time with little reprisal by the muslims now that there is no government to hold back the islamic genocidal tendancies. Egypt used to be 100% christian.
@mysock351W lol, no it is you who substitutes insults for arguments, i merely include them as extra. I have explained why christianity is just as bad as islam and why your 'argument' (or lack of) that Islam is inherently more violent than christianity is false, as well as pointing out your DELIBERATE attempts at deception and historical inaccuracies. Egypt was 100% christian? Sounds like a bullshit statistic to me, where'd you get it from the totalitarian census board? Idiot.
@mysock351W Again: You ignore all reality/common sense and claim that a book is more capable of inciting violence then the combination of poverty, systematic abuse and personal tragedy, i.e. western bombs decimating families, and the unexploded ordinance left behind to keep killing and dismembering kids. You must be right, NONE of that stuff factors into their reasoning/motives at all, oh no it is ALL Islam, either explain your logic-defying conclusion or keep your ignorant mouth shut.
@joope666 Bombing some far off land wouldnt motivate me to strap on a C4 tube-top and go blow up a bunch of pre-schoolers or people in a pizzeria. Freedom fighters don't blow their kids up. We don't see the Vietnamese doing this, and they received the worst of it after the pullout. Only ideologues working under the guise of a fascist ideology do these sorts of things. Muslims regard the quran as the highest authority in the land, and it mandates war and subjugation.
@joope666 Id tell you to go at least peruse it, but it seems like your to damn lazy to even do that, or read Hamas/Fatahs charter, which lays out their motivations in detail. Im not going to spoon feed you just because you're lazy, want to be obstinate and willfully ignorant. You can continue to project YOUR problems onto me, but that still wont make it any clearer to you. Theres really not much reason to go on if you wont at least learn a little background.
@mysock351W I am too damn lazy, I am still waiting on that evidence i asked for your claims dipshit, and an explanation for why you DELIBERATELY lied. Now, I demand evidence that it is the 'norm' to marry 9 year old kids in Islamic countries, and i demand it now or else you really need to shut the fuck up for once and for all. You lose the right to free speech when you deliberately spread misinformation.
@mysock351W "You can continue to project YOUR problems onto me, but that still wont make it any clearer to you." - Says the guy who systematically lies, and instantly identifies anyone who disagrees with him as a 'liberal'. Just another hypocritical piece of shit i see, hows it feel to be what you hate?
@joope666 I fully accept that some of those things you brought up have aggravated the situation, but those alone dont come close to explaining why people blow up little kids and decapitate innocent civilians. People dont just get out of bed one day and decide to kill Jews or Buddhists for the hell of it. It takes an ideology to motivate a normal person to do hideous things. I.E. the Jews are apes and pigs/the greatest deceivers and the polytheists are less than cattle (per the quran).
@mysock351W I never said those alone explain or are the cause of all the violence, although that is what happens in areas where children are systematically exposed to death and suffering, it tends to breed a lot of sociopaths. While i am certain some believe Islam alone justifies their violence since there are christians in western countries who think the same, it amuses me you refuse to recognise that 'Islamic extremism' is largely identity politics.
@joope666 A great example of this is Osamas excuse for the WTC tower bombing. He stated that one main reason was the US' "defilement" of the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina by the troops stationed at the US base near Riyadh. A cursory examination will show that the base and the two cities are seperated by hundreds of miles of baren desert, and no US soldier has ever stepped foot in either holy site. Had they done so, it would be a public relations nightmare with our so called "ally".
@joope666: Ooooh, look; you're right about something. The 1996 defense of marriage act does prevent one state having to recognise a gay marriage from another. I still think its weak evidence of American authoritarianism, though.
@Joope666: nope, never read them. Horrible story, and you can come up with worse than that; Mai Lai, for example. But, nevertheless, I can confidently assert US soldiers have never carried out anything like the Nanking Massacre. You might feel that there's no difference between soldiers of different armies, or (more likely) that the US are especially bad. Either way, you're demonstrably wrong.
@CBfrmcardiff So basically, you are saying that because someone else killed more people in a shorter period of time that automatically makes America immune to scrutiny/criticism? How about killing more people over an extended period of time, that just seems less wrong doesn't it? The CIA is responsible for unknown massacres globally, and every military invariably tries to cover up it's war crimes, rape rates are also through the roof in the US military, so no the difference is marginal at best.
@joope666: Marriage in the USA, as on the rest of the planet, has been a legal institution until now not available to couples of the same gender. Specific laws have to be passed to enable gay marriage. There have been proposals by some on the religious right to amend the constitution to forbid the states to institute such laws, but no Amendment has been enacted. So you're wrong on that one.
@CBfrmcardiff Uh no dipshit, you are wrong again. The state refuses to recognize gay marriages, that is more than a mere 'proposal' you retard, that is action/effect. Also, the amount of hate expressed by your homophobic right-wing pals far surpasses a mere 'proposal' and goes well into intimidation/bigotry plus the active attempts at changing policy to prevent the legalisation of gay marriage is an ATTEMPT/ACTION to block it not a mere 'proposal'. Jesus you are just full of shit.
@Joope666: you seem to misunderstand the word "systematic". Isolated brutal acts, not instituted by the powers-that-be, do not "systematic" make, however common. And I'm not so sure there were as "MANY instances" as you seem to think. Furthermore, there's a big difference between the mistreatment of US Indians and the Pogroms of E Europe - let alone the Holocaust.
@CBfrmcardiff The slaughter of Indians was not 'isolated brutal acts' dipshit, it was deliberately condoned/endorsed by those in power. According to blind submissives to authorty like yourself, anything less than a government openly stating it's intent of systematic abuse is just 'isolated incidents', what bullshit. There are bound to be MORE 'isolated incidents' then we could ever know, since dead men tell no tales, and look at Iraq and the total media restrictions.
@joope666: so US 'authoritarianism' is its gay marriage controversy, and its (weak) drug laws? Ha! You would be a libertarian crank, except that then, you'd be angry about the REAL unliberal thing a government does, that is, tax people. And you're not, you're upset about proposals (nothing else) to stop gay marriage, and yet you deride people for calling you a leftie! The US is not authoritarian by any historical standard - including its own.
'weak' drug laws? Oh yes they are 'weak' with mandatory sentencing and people going to jail for YEARS for WEED, the least harmful drug and the DEA which shortens hardened crim's sentences to go after medical marijuana/caregivers and has been caught many times exaggerating the number of plants found. And how is it just 'proposals' to stop gay marriage when the state refuses to legally recognise the marriage between same sexes, for RELIGIOUS reasons? Again, are you stupid or just lying?
@joope666 You dont go to jail for years for weed. Thats just stupid. Ive had friends whove been busted with it, and most of the time, its probation for people who dont have records, unless your carrying POUNDS of it. Again, you dont live here, so you dont know.
@mysock351W Sorry dipshit, you are wrong again. People have gone and are still going to jail for DECADES because of WEED alone, not just the hard drugs. In fact 5/10 years is MANDATORY for certain levels of a relatively harmless substance any adult should ahve access to, for fucks sake get your facts straight BEFORE you open your mouth. I don't live there yet i know more about your laws then you do, jesus christ you are retarded.
@joope666 No, I live here. I know people whove been busted. Unless your busted for INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE, you rarely get a stiff sentence for a first or second offense. Just because its on the books doesnt mean that every Judge will throw it at you. I should know, because IM A CITIZEN of this country, and not you. While I agree its pointless to have it on the books as an offense, its not nearly what you make it to be.
@joope666 Whats so historically INACCURATE about what Ive stated regarding the middle-east? Just because you dont agree with something doesnt automatically make it false.
@mysock351W I wasn't referring to your historical inaccuracies/lies regarding the middle-east alone, although claiming total restrictment of movement, killing civilians and paralyzing economic sanctions which create a 60% unemployment rate 'isn't oppression' is an obvious fallacy.
@joope666; furthermore, how does the US govn. exert "inappropriate" control over it's citizens? The US is one of the most free countries in the world. And what about the US' foreign policy makes it worse than other governments, and, specifically, worse than its opponents?
The U.S. government attempts to dictate lifestyle choices and removes freedoms it has no business doing so, namely the right of an adult to decide what drugs they may take and of gays to get married, there are also much more subtle invasions of privacy and freedoms. I didn't say US foreign policy is 'worse' then others, but it's a fact they have removed democratically elected leaders, backed brutal dictators, and supplied lists of political enemies to 'liquidate'.
@CBfrmcardiff I am still waiting to see how you reconcile the deliberate deposition of democratically ELECTED leaders, supporting of BRUTAL DICTATORS, and supplying them with weapons and lists of POLITICAL enemies to 'liquidate' with America's supposed 'moral superiority'. Well asshat? Still waiting...
@joope666: I'm not a deliberate liar. Which lie do you refer to? I DO believe there is a moral difference between Churchill and Hitler, and between Bin Laden and Bush. Don't you? RE: American Indians; there is no similarity to the Holocaust. No programme of extermination. The biological warfare you mention doesn't amount to this and was, anyhow, conducted by the British in the 17C, not by the USA.
@CBfrmcardiff You are either a deliberate liar or too stupid to realise what you are saying is dead wrong. First you implied that the slaughter of civilians in Berlin was 'accidental', and then said there was no systematic slaughter of the native americans, which is wrong. There were MANY instances of Indian women and children being slaughtered by American forces, the only difference between this and the holocaust is there were no trains or gas chambers.
You are right to say that collectivist retaliatory thinking negates the value of the individual and creates parallels with Hitler, Al Quada, etc., but practically there IS a difference. And, again, technology WAS important. In Caen, in 1944, the Allies levelled the city; and yet, that was clearly not aimed at the civilian population. The RAF began systematic night-time Area Bombing only in late 1941, as they could not attack by day, and could not hit a target by night.
@CBfrmcardiff Practically, the only difference is whether it is us or them that gets bombed. The U.S. is growing ever more authoritarian and asserts control/punishment over it's citizens when it is inapropriate, not to mention it's machiavellian foreign policy of using 3rd world nations as pawns in proxy wars over resources/territory. You are a deliberate liar and either too stupid to realise the insanity of what you say or just plain hypocritical, you piss on the American constitution.
@joope666 I live in the US, and its not authoritarian towards its citizens, and we dont have Gulags or anything like that. I dont know what your trying to get at with that statement. In recent years, there has been a relaxing of the criminal system, sometimes to ludicrous extents.
@mysock351W You are an idiot for saying the criminal system has been 'relaxed', when anti-terror laws/surveilance powers have been almost invariably used to prosecute on DRUG charges not terrorism and the American prison population has QUADRUPLED in the past few decades. America is becoming a prison nation where prisons provide factories of cheap labour for corporate interests.
@joope666 Lol... Prisons provide cheap labor? I think you mean CHINA, but whatever. Not much comes out of prisons, except maybe more experienced and connected criminals. What is there is mainly vocational. There isnt that much production. Its not like theyre still hand stamping license plates. Those days are long gone.
@mysock351W No i mean America dipshit, again you show your profound ignorance/deliberate deceit. The U.S. prison complex manufacturers produce most of the gear for the U.S. army (excluding vehicles), the prison slave-labour industry is BOOMING and costing Americans jobs since corporations can pay as little as 21 cents an hour instead of $20-30 an hour to make car parts, electronics, etc. I am all for forcing prisoners to do something constructive but the proceeds should go to the state/convicts.
@joope666 The prison "economy" is not cheap labor. These arent broken dissidents of the state working in gulag, theyre hardened criminals. They require ROUND THE CLOCK guarding, and frequent lockdowns halt production. Secondly, programs are voluntary, and are vocational in nature. Its not a huge economy, its a tiny part of the manufacturing sector. Thirdly, much of the time, the net return is a LOSS because of the high price of production in a prison system compaired to the private sector.
@mysock351W $0.23 IS CHEAP LABOUR you DIPSHIT.. The reality is the corrupt judicial system targets the poor and ignores the rich and you know it. Voluntary? Vocational? Again are you lying or just plain stupid? You know damn well as i do what happens to a prisoner if they refuse these 'voluntary' programs, at least one prisoner was given a fortnight's solitary confinement for blabbing to the local press. You are just parroting right-wing rhetoric/PR bullshit when you know better, what shame.
@joope666 Continuing on that point, they dont produce most of the gear for the army. What about guns/ammo? What about proctective gear like vests and helmets? What about food? Most of it is sourced from the private sector under government contract. Much of this stuff is sophisticated and requires specialized manufacturing to make. Even the uniforms are contracted to the private sector. Granted some fall into the "sweat-shop" catagory, but not necesarily done in the prison system.
@mysock351W I said gear not weapons, yes they make vests and they only stopped making the helmets because 44 THOUSAND were recalled because of quality, unicor prison slaves even build patriot missiles and ammunition. What's worse is gvernment agencies except the DD and CIA are REQUIRED to purchase from unicor, which is an obvious conflict of interest and added incentive to fill prisons.
@joope666: I MUST call you on that one. There was no systematic extermination, by the USA, of Native Americans. As to area bombing: yes, it happened, and is a cautionary note about how even the best of nations, and most sentimental and humane of leaders, can commit murder easily for the ''greater good''. But the Second World War was an exceptional event, which, besides being seventy years ago, involved an unusually clear-cut good/evil dichotomy and was for massive stakes.
@CBfrmcardiff No you dipshit, there was no COMPLETE systematic extermination of native Americans, so i guess the attempted genocide of the Jews doesn't count either? Jesus you are either a total idiot or total hypocrit for attempting to spout this crap, do you believe ANYTHING you say? It is a FACT there was wholesale slaughter of Indians, men women and children, and DELIBERATE BIOLOGICAL WARFARE. Nothing is so clear-cut, idiots always assume they are right and inherently 'morally superior'.
@joope666 Seriously, your bringing up the old small pox blanket tactic done almost two centuries ago as proof that the US is a totalitarian regime? REALLY? Thats just plain stupid as far as arguments go. Things have changed so VASTLY since then. Those were acts done by people I have no control over that would NOT approve of by any means. This differs from something like Iran, which is still indulging itself in such things as the blood libel against the jews and pushing for their extermination.
@mysock351W Oh, wait, Im sorry, ALMOST 3 CENTURIES AGO. For fucks sake, man, get with it. Those werent even Americans who did it, they where British colonists. Go take your beef over to the equally vacuous British imperialism caused everything debate.
@mysock351W For fucks sake, learn to use the reply button correctly dickhead. I make no apologies for correcting yourself and your bum buddy CBfrmcardiff on your historical innacuracies/lies, and blatant hypocrisy.
@joope666 Yes, its all incorrect even though a lot of what I said is common historical knowledge. My point is not that your completely wrong, but that you have a one sided argument.
@mysock351W Claiming the Palestinians are not oppressed, that the extermination of the Indians wasn't deliberate (albeit incomplete) genocide, and that the deliberate targeting of civilians in Berlin (among other areas) was 'only due to technology' are all, among other things you've said, TOTAL historic inaccuracies/lies.
@joope666 Your still wrong about Berlin. The targeting of Berlin proper to cripple its civilian work force was a stratigic pillar of the RAF plan before the US even joined the war. The US just continued that.
The indian "genocide" was done at a completely different time, by people who's core values we almost universally reject. Does not apply.
@mysock351W No you idiot, I am right that that the bombing was done to deliberately target the civilian population, as were the nukes in Japan, you are wrong to have deceitfully said it was 'merely due to technology', when you knew damn well that wasn't the case. I also never said the U.S. was the first to do it you moron, if i rape and murder someone does the fact others have done it before me negate it's unethicality? No, that is a logical fallacy.
@joope666 Again, one sided arguments. The fact that the Germans deliberately targeted the British as well, and arguably where the first to do so also goes unmentioned by you. You also fail to take into account that this was ALL OUT WAR and that the cities where key linchpins in wartime production. To not bomb Berlin while letting the Germans pound the hell out of the UK would have been suicide. Its a thinly vailed ideological claim to bolster the west is evil idea.
@mysock351W Again, no you are just lying through your teeth. EVERYBODY knows the Nazis targeted civilians dipshits, because it's the victors who write history and the opposition's crimes are always included, it goes without saying, again with the strawman bullshit you love so much. And where did i say that the west was 'evil'? Jesus stop with the strawmen already, you really look retarded. It was done to slaughter civilians not for strategic/military reasons and this is documented, period.
@joope666 And now for the main point. In Hamas charter (and to a lesser extent Fatah's) is the call for the EXTERMINATION of the jewish peoples, and the return of Israel to its "proper" state as a Muslim land. In Islam, all land is viewed as belonging to Islam for all time, and we are just interlopers that have to be evicted so Islam can once again rule the earth.
@mysock351W And again, Islam is not much worse if any than christianity, period. They both worship the same sadistic genocidal god, and both have given rise to imperialistic crusades in the name of their god and terrorism, both religious and state-sanctioned, period.
@joope666 Lastly, the fact that you STILL cant see that Christianity and Islam are completly different almost makes it a moot point to engage you. The fact that Islam has the same prophets does not automatically make it the same as Christianity. Islam is first and foremost a totalitarian system of rule that subjugates its citizens and mandates war against non-muslims. While the bible depicts violence, the Quran CALLS for violence, and glorifies it at every turn. Theyre not relative at all.
@ThreeLions89 I reject them all as crap. But that does not mean that there are not distinct differences between the two. While christianity is a turd floating around in the fountain of knowledge, Islam is a huge truckload of bullshit taking up the entire middle and blocking the spring that feeds it.
@mysock351W No you idiot the only difference between christianity and islam is that while islam overtly endorses/incites violence against non-believers christianity does it 'subversively', yet it is still painfully obvious. BOTH books feature excessive cruelty/violence against non-believers, violence and cruelty which is SANCTIONED by the same malicious god BOTH books preach about. Both christianity AND islam incite violence against non-believers, period.
@joope666 Have you read either the bible or the quran? Ive read BOTH, and there are definite differences. If you have not, then YOUR the idiot for passing judgement without actually bothering to examine either. The bible DEPICTS violence, but has a softer new testament. The quran MANDATES violence. Additionally, Islam proper regards the quran as ABSOLUTE and valid for all eternity while most of christianity regards the bible as inspired rather than absolute and subject to change and reformation.
@mysock351W So far the only proof you have that Islam is inherently more violent than christianity is because while the Quran (allegedly) overtly mandates violence the bible only 'subversively' sanctions violence against non-believers (even though it is PAINFULLY obvious), even though there are passages in the bible OVERTLY calling for the death of non-believers or those who act out some now long-gone tradition of a rival faith. Yep, you are totally full of shit dude, signed sealed and shut.
@joope666 Obviously youve never read EITHER of them. So... It is YOU who is full of shit. Theyre both different in scripture as well as practice. If you want examples of the violence, check out the ongoing violence in Egypt, Thailand, and elsewhere. All done in the name of Islam. Anyway, seems like your too buisy living life with your head up your ass, so its a wasted effort to even bother discussing it
We needed a Htchens in our public discussion here in Denmark, after the release of the cartoons.
Mathiaslengel 1 day ago
I love christorpher hitchen's but he is dead wrong attacking iraq had nothing to do with alquaida he is mixing up every thing
tiniaful 5 days ago
The only terrorists are the immoral psychopaths who cause chaos & moral anarchy in the world just to gain for themselves. fuck em
cosmosmonger 1 week ago
Hitchens actually went to the most evil places on earth and reported as objectively as anyone could. He saw both sides and reported like no one else. I did not agree with his stance on Iraq but he sure as hell made me think twice about it. I find myself divided on the issue of our involvement in Iraq because he visited the country for three decades and saw Saddam first hand from start to finish. Who else can say that?
landesdesign 3 weeks ago 14
@landesdesign Coming from someone from someone who lives in Hong Kong and honestly doesn't know the issues too well here, can you elaborate about why you hold your stance in Iraq?
matsurika1 1 week ago
Atheist leaders like Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins are brave enough to tell the truth about Islam. I wish most who call themselves followers of these men would follow suit. It amazes me that leftist atheist have a macochistic need to defend Islam and blame there own country
Jimboman300 3 weeks ago 7
My issue with the caste system is that it feels very oppressive, if you are born in to a very low class you can never access opportunities to give your children a better life, this allows the rich to always profit off the poor. I am glad to hear that this system is less popular today and it makes sense that it is more political than religious because I find it to be in contrary to the little I know about Hinduism. Do you find there are many tensions between the classes?
MELISSA3536 3 weeks ago
As an Indian, I thank Hitchens for highlighting what's going on in our part of the world and how Islam is a threat TO INDIA as well. Almost NOBODY in the west want to talk about Hindus being slaughtered by muslims because they want to hate Hindus too. They want to hate the entire brown population, which is why they just didn't care about Islamic terrorism until it hit THEM. How many Hindus were kidnapped, killed by muslim terrorists before 9/11.
Ask any American if they have ANY IDEA of it.
tarun1982 1 month ago
@tarun1982 I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Of course there are people in the West who dislike any group that is different than them, this is NOT a Western way of thinking its a human way of thinking, your implying that racism only exists there, which is not true. Hinduism is actually a religion that is much more respected than many others in the West (even though it incorporates a caste system which I find very racist.) Many Westerners are brown people.
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 i wouldnt really call it racism.. its only people of South Asian decent tehy seem to hate or want to hate the most.. which leads me to think that there must be a lot of things we are doing wrong too.. like we havent really made a mark on the Western world (at least not America) in any way, the way America has made it's impact felt around the world.. i understand that all that counts. but since we are such a large population i thought it might be wise of them to try to learn a bit.
tarun1982 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536
I am a Hindu and would like to clarify on the caste system,you have referred to as racist.Caste is nothing but what you call "division of labour".Our religion doesn't preach one caste is superior to another, just it segregates responsibilties for an improved society.Caste is not based on birth,it is based on occupation.
What happened in medieval India was that "Brahmins"(teachers and priests) became powerful and they introduced caste based on birth,superiority of one caste over ..
lokenath123 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 ... another, and untouchability.
It was politics,not religion, and was helped because Brahmins kept education limited to themselves.More illiterates would mean they'd become more powerful.
Hindus started to grow out of this in the early 19th century through liberal thinkers. But India has some pockets with very poor literacy rates where today's politicians still play this caste card for votes.I am sure with education all Hindus will be able to tell religion from politics.
lokenath123 1 month ago
@tarun1982 I will agree than many Westerners are ignorant of the happenings of other countries as all people are limited to the information they have available, the international media is certainly a joke. But to suggest that Westerners are any more ignorant than you of world happenings is not only an unwarranted judgement but a hypocritical statement as you are just as limited in your understanding of others. We should be working together as a people not against one another
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 no its not Westerners in general... like in the UK they seem to know a lot about us.. well they at least know that we are basically HINDUS.. Most Americans dont know who a Hindu is .. they keep asking us why we have "holy wars" or why we cover our women and all those things.. i have met people who thought Gandhi is a muslim... what do u do?.. just give up.. it's not going to change. It's not at all that bad in most European countries. come on, they know we are Hindus and stuff..
tarun1982 1 month ago
@tarun1982 I am 40 years old and have lived in the US all my life, I think your making generalizations, most of the people I know not only know what Hindu refers to but look at it as one of the most nonviolent religions/ways of living out there. I have a feeling that you are just as ignorant about others as you claim we are about you. Your comments give the appearance that you are both ignorant and racist. Peace
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 sorry but i can only judge from what i see on the internet.. Well we are racist lol i wouldnt deny that but racist towards white Americans .. i definitely wasn't being racist, miss :) .. just speaking out of hurt.. i got so much of abuse on the internet after 9/11.. that i was glad i wasn't in the US.. but that also made me sad. people saying "all Indians go back home" "we should nuke indians" and all that.. maybe i was too hurt at that time and i had to accept the reality that...
tarun1982 1 month ago
@tarun1982 that this whole perception i had of us being compatible in the western world and the western way of life had to change completely and we had to accept the fact that we were being perceived as the worst enemy to the people there because of a group of people that were as much our enemies (if not more) as they were to you.
tarun1982 1 month ago
@tarun1982 I wasn't calling you or anyone else a racist. The comment section on the internet is probably not the best place to find information. I agree that many of us here have fallen prey to the media propaganda that lead us into war to begin with, and has brought forth an ugly prejudice against what we don't understand, however many many people here don't feel that way, quite the to the contrary many of us are against the hate and wars our government sold to us. Peace
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 I'm sorry.. I'm not sure which "wars" you are referring to. But I am not really against any that are going on at the moment. I was very much FOR the "war against terror" or "war against Islam" or whatever because I am on the other side and I am definitely against the Islamists. It's the muslims that might hate you for those wars.. I dont. On the contrary, I am glad something is being done about these muslim fanatics.
tarun1982 1 month ago
@MELISSA3536 AS far as the US is concerned, I give up and we, as a nation, have given up and its not like a sad thing.. Its just that your people and our people dont have much in common.
That is why we are such close friends with Israel. They are the only ones who understand the situation of Hindu India. They face a threat from terrorists in Palestine just like we face terror threats from Pakistan. And hey have been helping us since ages to fight these Islamist trouble makers.
tarun1982 1 month ago
@tarun1982 I thought a lot about our discussion last night and feel sadness that you were treated the way you described, I agree that many Americans are unaware of the situation that exists in your part of the world but do not mistake ignorance for uncaring. My response to your initial comment was very much because I like you do not want to be grouped in with people who represent hate and unkindness.
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@tarun1982 As a result of our conversation I will make an effort to learn more about the culture, politics, and religion of your people and share that knowledge with those around me. May your life be filled with peace and happiness.
MELISSA3536 1 month ago
@tarun1982 Many Americans are indeed wholly misinformed about world issues, but thats mostly because many simply don't care. I'm an American and believe me I know. Many of my fellow Americans haven't even taken the time read their own Constitution or Bill of Rights. They'd much rather watch American idol of their favorite Hollywood actor spew their nonsense than do some actual real research.
LordMalice6d9 1 week ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Starting a seasonal meme - Merry Hitchmas!
tdp1909 1 month ago
THIS GUY .. FORGOT .. afgan, palestine , iraq,bosnia ,chechanyia,pakisthan,syria,eygpt,libia . if he comes to number ..he will fail miserably..
sicker57 1 month ago
@sicker57 1. he is dead, so he has ultimately failed in that respect
2. you have failed in spelling
gluetubeserver 1 month ago
@gluetubeserver 1. He is dead, and yet we are still watching him. 2. Many people on the Internet are not native English speakers, and one should not make fun of them. Having said that, I have no idea what sicker57is trying to say.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
Well said Christopher Hitchens, spot on. Thank goodness someone has the courage and belief to tellit like it is about this vindictive primitive ideology. The 'religion of peace'.. What a joke
Monterey2am 2 months ago 36
@joope666 :... Cont... Additionally, because war is hell this does not mean that violence is never the answer to a problem. Without violence from 'good' people, society would fall apart. As in the civil space, so on the world stage.
Also, my assumptions are that America is relatively 'good' at self restraint, and that this might even be one of the reasons it fails to defeat its enemies - as the US does not race to the bottom it puts itself at disadvantage.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff "War is evil but it is often lesser evil."
GSW12345 3 weeks ago 2
@joope666 : I agree with the implication that the most sadistic and least restrained people have an advantage in war, and that warfare is murder, it is sadism. And that few sides in a conflict have nothing to be ashamed of. However, most participants do tend to control themselves and take pride in doing so, and its the most absurd relativism to say that this self restraint is valueless, because violence is inherently nasty.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@Joope666 :(cont) I believe I mentioned the bombing of Caen as an example of the 'blunt instrument' reality. Also, there's the RAF's failure to hit ANYTHING before Area Bombing in 1942, the retaliatory principle, and the utilitarian argument that victory, or a quicker victory, would save lives.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@Joope666 : I MAY be 'in denial', but I'd not set out to deceive you. Promise. Re: Berlin (why not Dresden?) I feel its really quite sinister to look at the Second World War from a neutral perspective, actually. Besides, such a blunt analysis ignores the mindset of the time, and the situation.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff I don't look at WWII from a neutral perspective believe me, i fully understand that had the Nazis won life on earth would be even more shit than it is now, and they would probably still be systematically exterminating races of non european descent (and many who are). People are pissed at america despite it's proportionally 'lower' number of war crimes because it has the most potential/expectation to do good, and because those who infiltrate it's government commit brazen hypocrisy.
joope666 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Additionally, my point was that it is somewhat wrong to imply one side's conduct during war is somehow 'humane' or 'morally superior' because the reality of war is a race to the bottom where whoever disposes of more humanity quicker wins. There were many summary executions of 'axis' conscripts by allied forces and troop sadism is just a reality of any side in any conflict and army mentality, even in the U.N. we see this.
joope666 3 months ago
... Often this seems to be accompanied by 'initiation' into niche intellectual ideas or perspectives which specifically attack conventional assumptions. They are then disillusioned with the mainstream common sense approach, which in reality has much going for it. I'm sure you can think of many groups like this: anarchists, communists, come to mind. Maybe also 'neoconservatives', many of whom started on the extreme Left.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@joope666 you can be 'stupid' without having a low IQ, as 'stupid' can mean "one who acts foolishly". In fact, people of above-average intelligence can fall into the trap of believing they can see through the falacious 'common sense' assumptions of the masses...
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
I'm finding it awkward to talk on here as Youtube severely restricts the number of posts. And does so unpredictable. Last night it only allowed one.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@joope666 : In a comparison between "America" and "Islamic terrorism", how can you believe the US is NOT morally superior? It's behaviour in a war is more restrained, full stop. But I could add it's also more restrained about what it considers a 'just cause' for violence (eg. No massacres of Muslims because someone insulted Christ).
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff No, it isn't you fucking moron, and you only think that because you have either viewed information selectively or been fed sanitized information. Exactly how do you judge that btw when all the information on American conduct in war is sanitized in 'perception management' by the pentagon first? Congratulations, an idiot is you.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 : I too thought you were a bit arrogant, there, in saying that you knocked mysock351w into a corner. IMHO he was the more eloquent of you two, and a good debater. No offense, but I thought he was mostly 'winning'. Of course, I'm biased, since I agreed with him.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Of course you are biased, you had the sheer arrogance to say 'America is morally superior'. Also, he only began replying with (relatively) rational responses AFTER i CONTINUOUSLY pointed out shouting LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST! Is not a valid arguement. If you think he was the more 'eloquent' of the two, then you obviously didn't read the full exchange or have a warped perception of things.
joope666 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Additionally, deliberately using factual inaccuracies you KNOW are FALSE (which he did, and later proved he knew they were false to begin with) simply to 'win' does not make you a good debater, it maeks you a machiavellian debater.
joope666 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff At any rate you too have proven deliberately deceitful or at the very least in denial/out of touch with reality when you repeatedly asserted that the deliberate mass civilian slaying in berlin was first 'only due to technology' and then 'somehow justified'.
joope666 3 months ago
The west did not 'create' Islamic terrorism what it did do is EXACERBATE and EMPOWER it through direct military support/funding and driving their recruitment numbers through the roof via the torture/murder/rape of civilians and it's own hypocrisy managing to create the perception that Al Qaeda is somehow the lesser of two evils and/or a champion for the poor/oppressed.
joope666 3 months ago
Joope666: re: child brides; my Asian landlady was speaking yesterday of how her mother got married at 11. I'm not sure this is anything to do with Islam, more with cultural routine and economic reality in impoverished countries. On the other hand it must still go on, so, you're both right.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Oh i know Islam contributes to the child bride problem because christianity did as well and it is primarily religion which first introduced the concept/desire for depravity into human consciousness, however i am also sure mysock is wrong about the majority of the arab/muslim population being pedophiles, sexual attraction to children is a specific pathology which is always a minority in any population.
joope666 3 months ago
@Joope666 re:proxy wars.
That example's not remotely rational (though it would be, if the terrorists were pissed-off moderates, or Russians). I think the whole "proxy wars" thing is overstated. Sure, in that example the West funded Afghan resistance to invasion, I'm not sure there was anything nefarious in that.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Again it is not the fact that they funded/used afghans to fight the russians, it is the fact they picked the most religiously radical resistance fighters, and then abandoned the country to a power vacuum and brutal infighting between factions. Again, you have nothing to offer which would suggest the religious component is much more then identity politics and playing to the fears/image the west has of the middle east.
joope666 3 months ago
To all the commenters down below: Nobody cares about your shit comments
monsieurhassan 3 months ago
@monsieurhassan Right back at you pal, btw i hope you realise the glaring irony of deliberately expending effort to express that you 'don't give a shit' about something, but then you are probably too stupid to realise that.
joope666 3 months ago
I was trying to point out the self-absorbed attitudes of youtube commenters, and their disillusionment that the world revolves around their petty discussions and not the other way around . .. but you are too conceited to understand that
monsieurhassan 3 months ago
@monsieurhassan Wrong dipshit, this is not a case of me believing the tail wags the dog, just keep your dumbass assumptions about yourself, it is quite conceited to believe you actually know what i think about anything other than what i have explicitly said.
joope666 3 months ago
well guess what fuckface, you just proved yourself wrong . . . your over-enthusiasm about expressing your dumb opinions speaks for itself . .. I guess someone needs a lesson about "irony"
monsieurhassan 3 months ago
@monsieurhassan Wrong again dipshit, the reality is it takes minimal effort and time, although i do have a certain intolerance for being misdefined and misinformation. I guess someone needs a lesson in self-projection.
joope666 3 months ago
@Joope666 : 3./unexploded ordinance: A true issue, relating to the cluster bombs issue. But not one often mentioned by terrorist ideologues. You seem to feel that personal tragedy causes terrorism, rather than one's political/ideological/religious views. I think in reality if that were true things would be much easier, people would abandon violence for a modest improvement in their lives or reduction of misery.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff You yourself mentioned that the religious component/propaganda is largely identity politics, for the average member of al qaeda on the ground it is these things and the general hypocrisy of superpowers, america in particular because of the image it projects and particular position of dominance. People take up violence because their lives are worth shit to begin with when you live in poverty and are constantly pissed on by superpowers.
joope666 3 months ago
@Joope666 : 1./ Proxy wars: as far as Muslims are concerned, you must be referring to Iraq. None of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi or Iranian, Bin Laden's country also supported Iraq, so this isn't a sufficient explanation. 2./war crimes: every country tends to cover up crimes, America less than others. In this war, their enemies are especially ruthless. And they boast about it. Look at the sectarian atrocities in Iraq. This can't, then, be a rational cause of anti-Americanism.
CBfrmcardiff 3 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff No i am referring to the abuse of 3rd world nations/peoples in proxy wars by superpowers, America in particular which proves their undeniable hypocrisy. Proxy wars like the one in Afghanistan where the CIA trained/funded Al Qaeda when there were less religiously radical resistance fighters to pick. It is a very rational cause of terrorism, and anti-americanism.
joope666 3 months ago
Anyway, peace. Have fun hating yourself and the society that gives you all the freedoms you take for granted.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W I may hate myself and society, but that is merely because i have a deeper understanding/connection to the human condition then you do. Also, as i have showed it is YOU who attempts to undermine democracy, not me. :)
joope666 3 months ago
@mysock351W
I wouldn't know whether you actually called joope666 (as he claims) a liberal or not, but to be an idiot doesn't necessarily mean to be a liberal (although unfortunately it often does). That's why there is a fine accurate word "libtard". Being liberal myself i often point this out, and gladly use the mentioned term. I certainly won't abandon my basic liberal principles because of mental teenagers.
aaxxes 3 months ago
@aaxxes Take a look through the previous comments, one of his responses when i backed him into a corner was to copypasta LEFTIST! LEFTIST! LEFTIST! until the character limit ran out. I'm 26 btw.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666
One of the main libtard traits is self-conceit. You "backing someone into a corner" with your feeble-minded propaganda is nothing but comical.
You can be 56, your mind is underage.
aaxxes 3 months ago
@aaxxes Sorry jackass, i am only deemed 'liberal' when arguing with neocons, when i argue with liberals i am supposedly a neocon. If arguing with chinese communists i am a capitalist/proponent for democracy, and then vice versa. Obviously i cannot be all of these things, and in reality i am not ANY of these things.
Additionally, when i was young my IQ was recorded as 127, simply because you call me mentally underdeveloped does not negate the reality i am in all likelihood much smarter than you.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666
I didn't say, nor i think you can be, any of the mentioned. I said you're a liberal retard. If the word "liberal" in the expression bothers you, it's fine with me. On the other hand, if the word "retard" bothers you, there's nothing can be done about it. Your reply, as a comical paradigm, shows it the best.
aaxxes 3 months ago
@aaxxes Well it does bother me, given that not only is my IQ no doubt higher than yours, i was invariably selected for high achiever classes for gifted students, this is not a point of pride for me but since you immediately resorted to the 'you are stupid' argument i figured i'd prove you wrong. And again, since you obviously got no valid argument to offer, simply shut the fuck up eh?
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666
lolll
aaxxes 3 months ago
@aaxxes Yep again you confirm it, you got nothing. :)
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666
As for your kind proposition, i hope you'll understand that eventhough i do it from time to time, i can't spend my time in vain arguing with every single libtard who cannot distinguish between "leftist" and "liberal". My life is just not long enough for that.
aaxxes 3 months ago
@aaxxes Sorry dumbshit, but i am neither leftest, nor liberal, and yes you are too chicken shit to offer up any legitimate response because you have NONE. I knew my IQ was a good 25 points above yours, farewell.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666
lol
aaxxes 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@aaxxes yep, you got nothing. :)
joope666 3 months ago
@aaxxes However, if you actually have a valid argument/reason to believe any of the things i have said are false, i am perfectly willing to listen. If not, you are merely a dipshit with nothing to say/offer but an unwarranted opinion and personal attacks.
joope666 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Now, if you want to understand more about Islam rather than just bloviating about it, there are very good books by R. Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Bernard Lewis, Ibn Warraq (his pen name) et al. Hell, if you want to be a lazy fuck just watch their vids on YT. But either way, you show that you dont fully grasp the subject.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W To claim one fully grasps ANY subject is probably a definite sign of insanity/delusion, you on the other hadn have repeated MULTIPLE HISTORICAL INACCURACIES, some of which you have proven you KNEW were FALSE. Don't even try to criticise me when you are an admitted and obvious liar and hypocrit, dipshit.
joope666 3 months ago
Comment removed
mysock351W 3 months ago
Of course, you'll try to pass the fatuous argument "so is christianity" like the brain-dead PC idiots do, but its not so. The closest it came was maybe the middle ages, but the King held much of the power as well, and the cannon offered no real clear stratagy of governance. On the contrary, the Quran and Hadith DO form a complete system that dictates the most minute details of Islamic life, and forms the backbone of their constitutions.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W You forget or deliberately ignore there was a time when governments were servant to christianity, it was BY FAR the dominant institution and DICTATED much of law and how society was structured. You obviously understand nothing you speak about. Even if Islam's influence over politics was/is vastly greater than christianity's, what exactly do you think that proves again?
joope666 3 months ago
seeing how most religions were founded in barbaric times why is it so hard for people to believe the teachings are barbaric
ThePenguinColonel 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
hitchens was on CSPAN ?! whoa
SanguineBullet667 4 months ago
@joope666 I just cant help but come back and state that your one sided arguments are showing through with your comment on the bombing of Japan. That argument fails to take into account that Japan was under state shintoism, and that all civilians where expected to fight to the death. Its much the same with the Kamikaze's, in that death is seen as superior to dishonor. Its likely had we dealt with Japan in the conventional way, there would have been close to an order of magnitude more fatalities.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Again, no it is you who has proved they are 'one-sided' and lack capacity or desire for critical analysis, sorry that's just the truth. 'Death before dishonor', that's a U.S. army slogan isn't it? Japan was trying to surrender, which was difficult because they had backed themselves into a corner. They could have exploded a few nukes off the shore of japan but instead chose to target cities because they could and wanted to see how well their new toys worked.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 Lastly, your WWII comments are nothing more than arm-chair rantings, made from the comfort garnered from the fruits of western society that you so seem to hate. Could they have dropped the bomb in the ocean? Sure. Would it have worked? Maybe, but probably not. They could have also invaded conventionally and racked up a couple million more casualties. They did what they had to do to bring a very ugly time in history to a close. If you had your way we'd all be chanting sieg heils now.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W My comments on WWII are historically accurate and reserved, yours are historically inaccurate and DELIBERATELY DECEITFUL, I don't give a fuck what your 'opinion' about my comments is you stupid twat because you obviously don't give two shits about the truth, it's you who hates democracy not me bud :). They could have ignited nukes off the shore and the possibility/reality of TOTAL OBLITERATION would have forced the japanese surrender all the same, PERIOD. Asswipe.
joope666 3 months ago
Again, jdope, so it gets through, the problem with your arguments are not necessarily that theyre all wrong, as you like to imply with mine. The problem is that theyre ONE sided. You dont bother to look at anything else that you dont want to.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Again dipshit, so it gets through, the problem is not that i am 'one-sided', it is that you are so blindsided you can't distinguish between someone attacking your faulty belief system and defending another. I am not defending any of the other states/religions you keep bringing up to distract from the point, they are all variations of the same cancer to me. Your arguments however ARE one-sided, WRONG and DELIBERATELY DECEITFUL as you have shown repeatedly.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 What you say does not ultimately have sufficient explanitory power to demonstrate why we see some of the problems that we see today. To lump together Islamic terrorism with so called "western" terrorism shows that you lack a basic understanding of the issue. It also does it even remotely explain with sufficient clarity why they do what they do.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Wow, that was unexpectedly rational. However, I don't believe i ever claimed to have a 'total explanation' for the causes of terrorism, and attempting to give one in this character limit would be insulting. What i do remember saying however, is that the systematic abuses by global superpowers and state-funded terror contributes greatly to the motives of many terrorists, and that religion is a severely over-stated factor compared to personal tragedy, as has been said by CIA officials.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Its not that yours doesnt explain all of it, its that it explains very LITTLE of it. That so called "abuse" is rolled out by them because they know that there are anti-government cranks and lunatics that will buy the explanation. Its a subterfuge meant to confuse. Typical MO for Islamists. Utlimately, Islamic terrorism is rooted in the ideological beleif systems of Islam.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W You ignore all reality/common sense and claim that a book is more capable of inciting violence then the combination of poverty, systematic abuse and personal tragedy, i.e. western bombs decimating families, and the unexploded ordinance left behind to keep killing and dismembering kids. You must be right, NONE of that stuff factors into their reasoning/motives at all, oh no it is ALL Islam, either explain your logic-defying conclusion or keep your ignorant mouth shut.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 The quran is essentially Mein Kampf meets the old testament. Its a polemic of hate and imperialistic world domination. Thats what it was created for, to justify and guide the expansion of the arab empire from around 700 AD onward. On top of that, the quran is considered settled in the islamic jurisprudence, and as such, is unchangeable. The bible can be revised and does not directly mandate violence. Again, your comparing apples and cucumbers.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W "The bible can be revised and does not directly mandate violence." - AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
Do you know how many passages there are in the bible directly mandating violence for old, irrelevant traditions/acts? JESUS YOU ARE STUPID AND DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DO US ALL A FAVOUR AND STOP TALKING BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DIPSHIT..
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 "Do you know how many passages there are in the bible directly mandating violence for old, irrelevant traditions/acts?" How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf. Your missing a key piece of information. Sure, the bible DEPICTS violence, and has the occasional rumbling in it, but in the Quran, its a consistant theme throughout.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W For one the bible and mein kumpf are not the same you idiot again you try the bullshit strawman argument, what was that you were saying about equivocation fallacies? Dipshit. Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler, that is equivalent to saying the best way to analyze a political party/group is not through their policy/action, but through the sum total of their propaganda, i.e. their own bullshit. Stupid.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 "For one the bible and mein kumpf are not the same you idiot again you try the bullshit strawman argument"
Did you even bother to read what I said? Of course not, just went on throwing a temper-tantrum.
"How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it (the bible/quran)? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf. Your missing a key piece of information" <---READ IT AGAIN.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W Sorry dipshit, it is you who habitually misses information, or chooses to ignore it because it contradicts you.
"Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler, that is equivalent to saying the best way to analyze a political party/group is not through their policy/action, but through the sum total of their propaganda, i.e. their own bullshit. Stupid." <--- READ IT AGAIN, YOU ILLITERATE FUCKING MORON.
joope666 3 months ago
Comment removed
mysock351W 3 months ago
@joope666 ""Either way reading the bible or mein kumpf is NOT a prerequisite to understanding/studying christianity/hitler" Actually, it is a prerequisit to really understand it. This is especially true with Islam. Otherwise, your just going off of heresay from other people. Islam is an entire political ideology and system, not just a religion. The fact that you DONT know that shows that you dont have nearly as much knowledge as you like to purport.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W No, it isn't a prerequisite. While it is certainly helpful to have a familiarity with such texts, knowing every single phrase in the bible/quran is NOT a prerequisite to developing a functional and (relatively) complete understanding of said institutions. One need only look at their actions/effects on reality and the people under/outside said ideologies, it is not 'heresay' to look at historical FACT, then again you obviously don't care about the truth given your earlier lies.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 "READ IT AGAIN, YOU ILLITERATE FUCKING MORON." Your the illiterate moron that misread my post to begin with. I did not say that they where the same. I was using them as an EXAMPLE. I was not addressing the second part.
For the second bit, as I said, to understand any ideology requires that you understand what it is that they believe at their core. To fully understand economic marxism would require at least a cursory familiarity with Das Kapital and other works by Marx.
mysock351W 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mysock351W "Your the illiterate moron" - It's 'you're' not 'your', you illiterate fucking moron.
"How can you say I dont know shit when you havent even bothered to fucking read it (the bible/quran)? That would be like me passing myself off as a historian of Hitler without ever having read mein kampf." - Obvious attempt to equate the two in this context, NT asswipe.
And again, such texts are not what they necessarily believe, so much as claim to believe.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 "CLEARLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING/KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DIPSHIT.."
All your really doing is just trying to substitute insults and anger for a real argument and analysis. You cant legitimately say that unless you've studied both. We can also see each in action in Egypt currently. The Copts are being killed dozens at a time with little reprisal by the muslims now that there is no government to hold back the islamic genocidal tendancies. Egypt used to be 100% christian.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W lol, no it is you who substitutes insults for arguments, i merely include them as extra. I have explained why christianity is just as bad as islam and why your 'argument' (or lack of) that Islam is inherently more violent than christianity is false, as well as pointing out your DELIBERATE attempts at deception and historical inaccuracies. Egypt was 100% christian? Sounds like a bullshit statistic to me, where'd you get it from the totalitarian census board? Idiot.
joope666 3 months ago
@mysock351W Again: You ignore all reality/common sense and claim that a book is more capable of inciting violence then the combination of poverty, systematic abuse and personal tragedy, i.e. western bombs decimating families, and the unexploded ordinance left behind to keep killing and dismembering kids. You must be right, NONE of that stuff factors into their reasoning/motives at all, oh no it is ALL Islam, either explain your logic-defying conclusion or keep your ignorant mouth shut.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 Bombing some far off land wouldnt motivate me to strap on a C4 tube-top and go blow up a bunch of pre-schoolers or people in a pizzeria. Freedom fighters don't blow their kids up. We don't see the Vietnamese doing this, and they received the worst of it after the pullout. Only ideologues working under the guise of a fascist ideology do these sorts of things. Muslims regard the quran as the highest authority in the land, and it mandates war and subjugation.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@joope666 Id tell you to go at least peruse it, but it seems like your to damn lazy to even do that, or read Hamas/Fatahs charter, which lays out their motivations in detail. Im not going to spoon feed you just because you're lazy, want to be obstinate and willfully ignorant. You can continue to project YOUR problems onto me, but that still wont make it any clearer to you. Theres really not much reason to go on if you wont at least learn a little background.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W I am too damn lazy, I am still waiting on that evidence i asked for your claims dipshit, and an explanation for why you DELIBERATELY lied. Now, I demand evidence that it is the 'norm' to marry 9 year old kids in Islamic countries, and i demand it now or else you really need to shut the fuck up for once and for all. You lose the right to free speech when you deliberately spread misinformation.
joope666 3 months ago
@mysock351W "You can continue to project YOUR problems onto me, but that still wont make it any clearer to you." - Says the guy who systematically lies, and instantly identifies anyone who disagrees with him as a 'liberal'. Just another hypocritical piece of shit i see, hows it feel to be what you hate?
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 I fully accept that some of those things you brought up have aggravated the situation, but those alone dont come close to explaining why people blow up little kids and decapitate innocent civilians. People dont just get out of bed one day and decide to kill Jews or Buddhists for the hell of it. It takes an ideology to motivate a normal person to do hideous things. I.E. the Jews are apes and pigs/the greatest deceivers and the polytheists are less than cattle (per the quran).
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W I never said those alone explain or are the cause of all the violence, although that is what happens in areas where children are systematically exposed to death and suffering, it tends to breed a lot of sociopaths. While i am certain some believe Islam alone justifies their violence since there are christians in western countries who think the same, it amuses me you refuse to recognise that 'Islamic extremism' is largely identity politics.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 A great example of this is Osamas excuse for the WTC tower bombing. He stated that one main reason was the US' "defilement" of the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina by the troops stationed at the US base near Riyadh. A cursory examination will show that the base and the two cities are seperated by hundreds of miles of baren desert, and no US soldier has ever stepped foot in either holy site. Had they done so, it would be a public relations nightmare with our so called "ally".
mysock351W 4 months ago
@joope666: Ooooh, look; you're right about something. The 1996 defense of marriage act does prevent one state having to recognise a gay marriage from another. I still think its weak evidence of American authoritarianism, though.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@Joope666: nope, never read them. Horrible story, and you can come up with worse than that; Mai Lai, for example. But, nevertheless, I can confidently assert US soldiers have never carried out anything like the Nanking Massacre. You might feel that there's no difference between soldiers of different armies, or (more likely) that the US are especially bad. Either way, you're demonstrably wrong.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff So basically, you are saying that because someone else killed more people in a shorter period of time that automatically makes America immune to scrutiny/criticism? How about killing more people over an extended period of time, that just seems less wrong doesn't it? The CIA is responsible for unknown massacres globally, and every military invariably tries to cover up it's war crimes, rape rates are also through the roof in the US military, so no the difference is marginal at best.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666: Marriage in the USA, as on the rest of the planet, has been a legal institution until now not available to couples of the same gender. Specific laws have to be passed to enable gay marriage. There have been proposals by some on the religious right to amend the constitution to forbid the states to institute such laws, but no Amendment has been enacted. So you're wrong on that one.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Uh no dipshit, you are wrong again. The state refuses to recognize gay marriages, that is more than a mere 'proposal' you retard, that is action/effect. Also, the amount of hate expressed by your homophobic right-wing pals far surpasses a mere 'proposal' and goes well into intimidation/bigotry plus the active attempts at changing policy to prevent the legalisation of gay marriage is an ATTEMPT/ACTION to block it not a mere 'proposal'. Jesus you are just full of shit.
joope666 4 months ago
@Joope666: you seem to misunderstand the word "systematic". Isolated brutal acts, not instituted by the powers-that-be, do not "systematic" make, however common. And I'm not so sure there were as "MANY instances" as you seem to think. Furthermore, there's a big difference between the mistreatment of US Indians and the Pogroms of E Europe - let alone the Holocaust.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff The slaughter of Indians was not 'isolated brutal acts' dipshit, it was deliberately condoned/endorsed by those in power. According to blind submissives to authorty like yourself, anything less than a government openly stating it's intent of systematic abuse is just 'isolated incidents', what bullshit. There are bound to be MORE 'isolated incidents' then we could ever know, since dead men tell no tales, and look at Iraq and the total media restrictions.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666: so US 'authoritarianism' is its gay marriage controversy, and its (weak) drug laws? Ha! You would be a libertarian crank, except that then, you'd be angry about the REAL unliberal thing a government does, that is, tax people. And you're not, you're upset about proposals (nothing else) to stop gay marriage, and yet you deride people for calling you a leftie! The US is not authoritarian by any historical standard - including its own.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
'weak' drug laws? Oh yes they are 'weak' with mandatory sentencing and people going to jail for YEARS for WEED, the least harmful drug and the DEA which shortens hardened crim's sentences to go after medical marijuana/caregivers and has been caught many times exaggerating the number of plants found. And how is it just 'proposals' to stop gay marriage when the state refuses to legally recognise the marriage between same sexes, for RELIGIOUS reasons? Again, are you stupid or just lying?
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 You dont go to jail for years for weed. Thats just stupid. Ive had friends whove been busted with it, and most of the time, its probation for people who dont have records, unless your carrying POUNDS of it. Again, you dont live here, so you dont know.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Sorry dipshit, you are wrong again. People have gone and are still going to jail for DECADES because of WEED alone, not just the hard drugs. In fact 5/10 years is MANDATORY for certain levels of a relatively harmless substance any adult should ahve access to, for fucks sake get your facts straight BEFORE you open your mouth. I don't live there yet i know more about your laws then you do, jesus christ you are retarded.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 No, I live here. I know people whove been busted. Unless your busted for INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE, you rarely get a stiff sentence for a first or second offense. Just because its on the books doesnt mean that every Judge will throw it at you. I should know, because IM A CITIZEN of this country, and not you. While I agree its pointless to have it on the books as an offense, its not nearly what you make it to be.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@joope666 Whats so historically INACCURATE about what Ive stated regarding the middle-east? Just because you dont agree with something doesnt automatically make it false.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W I wasn't referring to your historical inaccuracies/lies regarding the middle-east alone, although claiming total restrictment of movement, killing civilians and paralyzing economic sanctions which create a 60% unemployment rate 'isn't oppression' is an obvious fallacy.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666; furthermore, how does the US govn. exert "inappropriate" control over it's citizens? The US is one of the most free countries in the world. And what about the US' foreign policy makes it worse than other governments, and, specifically, worse than its opponents?
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
The U.S. government attempts to dictate lifestyle choices and removes freedoms it has no business doing so, namely the right of an adult to decide what drugs they may take and of gays to get married, there are also much more subtle invasions of privacy and freedoms. I didn't say US foreign policy is 'worse' then others, but it's a fact they have removed democratically elected leaders, backed brutal dictators, and supplied lists of political enemies to 'liquidate'.
joope666 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff I am still waiting to see how you reconcile the deliberate deposition of democratically ELECTED leaders, supporting of BRUTAL DICTATORS, and supplying them with weapons and lists of POLITICAL enemies to 'liquidate' with America's supposed 'moral superiority'. Well asshat? Still waiting...
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666: I'm not a deliberate liar. Which lie do you refer to? I DO believe there is a moral difference between Churchill and Hitler, and between Bin Laden and Bush. Don't you? RE: American Indians; there is no similarity to the Holocaust. No programme of extermination. The biological warfare you mention doesn't amount to this and was, anyhow, conducted by the British in the 17C, not by the USA.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff You are either a deliberate liar or too stupid to realise what you are saying is dead wrong. First you implied that the slaughter of civilians in Berlin was 'accidental', and then said there was no systematic slaughter of the native americans, which is wrong. There were MANY instances of Indian women and children being slaughtered by American forces, the only difference between this and the holocaust is there were no trains or gas chambers.
joope666 4 months ago
You are right to say that collectivist retaliatory thinking negates the value of the individual and creates parallels with Hitler, Al Quada, etc., but practically there IS a difference. And, again, technology WAS important. In Caen, in 1944, the Allies levelled the city; and yet, that was clearly not aimed at the civilian population. The RAF began systematic night-time Area Bombing only in late 1941, as they could not attack by day, and could not hit a target by night.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff Practically, the only difference is whether it is us or them that gets bombed. The U.S. is growing ever more authoritarian and asserts control/punishment over it's citizens when it is inapropriate, not to mention it's machiavellian foreign policy of using 3rd world nations as pawns in proxy wars over resources/territory. You are a deliberate liar and either too stupid to realise the insanity of what you say or just plain hypocritical, you piss on the American constitution.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 I live in the US, and its not authoritarian towards its citizens, and we dont have Gulags or anything like that. I dont know what your trying to get at with that statement. In recent years, there has been a relaxing of the criminal system, sometimes to ludicrous extents.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W You are an idiot for saying the criminal system has been 'relaxed', when anti-terror laws/surveilance powers have been almost invariably used to prosecute on DRUG charges not terrorism and the American prison population has QUADRUPLED in the past few decades. America is becoming a prison nation where prisons provide factories of cheap labour for corporate interests.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Lol... Prisons provide cheap labor? I think you mean CHINA, but whatever. Not much comes out of prisons, except maybe more experienced and connected criminals. What is there is mainly vocational. There isnt that much production. Its not like theyre still hand stamping license plates. Those days are long gone.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W No i mean America dipshit, again you show your profound ignorance/deliberate deceit. The U.S. prison complex manufacturers produce most of the gear for the U.S. army (excluding vehicles), the prison slave-labour industry is BOOMING and costing Americans jobs since corporations can pay as little as 21 cents an hour instead of $20-30 an hour to make car parts, electronics, etc. I am all for forcing prisoners to do something constructive but the proceeds should go to the state/convicts.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 The prison "economy" is not cheap labor. These arent broken dissidents of the state working in gulag, theyre hardened criminals. They require ROUND THE CLOCK guarding, and frequent lockdowns halt production. Secondly, programs are voluntary, and are vocational in nature. Its not a huge economy, its a tiny part of the manufacturing sector. Thirdly, much of the time, the net return is a LOSS because of the high price of production in a prison system compaired to the private sector.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W $0.23 IS CHEAP LABOUR you DIPSHIT.. The reality is the corrupt judicial system targets the poor and ignores the rich and you know it. Voluntary? Vocational? Again are you lying or just plain stupid? You know damn well as i do what happens to a prisoner if they refuse these 'voluntary' programs, at least one prisoner was given a fortnight's solitary confinement for blabbing to the local press. You are just parroting right-wing rhetoric/PR bullshit when you know better, what shame.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Continuing on that point, they dont produce most of the gear for the army. What about guns/ammo? What about proctective gear like vests and helmets? What about food? Most of it is sourced from the private sector under government contract. Much of this stuff is sophisticated and requires specialized manufacturing to make. Even the uniforms are contracted to the private sector. Granted some fall into the "sweat-shop" catagory, but not necesarily done in the prison system.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W I said gear not weapons, yes they make vests and they only stopped making the helmets because 44 THOUSAND were recalled because of quality, unicor prison slaves even build patriot missiles and ammunition. What's worse is gvernment agencies except the DD and CIA are REQUIRED to purchase from unicor, which is an obvious conflict of interest and added incentive to fill prisons.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666: I MUST call you on that one. There was no systematic extermination, by the USA, of Native Americans. As to area bombing: yes, it happened, and is a cautionary note about how even the best of nations, and most sentimental and humane of leaders, can commit murder easily for the ''greater good''. But the Second World War was an exceptional event, which, besides being seventy years ago, involved an unusually clear-cut good/evil dichotomy and was for massive stakes.
CBfrmcardiff 4 months ago
@CBfrmcardiff No you dipshit, there was no COMPLETE systematic extermination of native Americans, so i guess the attempted genocide of the Jews doesn't count either? Jesus you are either a total idiot or total hypocrit for attempting to spout this crap, do you believe ANYTHING you say? It is a FACT there was wholesale slaughter of Indians, men women and children, and DELIBERATE BIOLOGICAL WARFARE. Nothing is so clear-cut, idiots always assume they are right and inherently 'morally superior'.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Seriously, your bringing up the old small pox blanket tactic done almost two centuries ago as proof that the US is a totalitarian regime? REALLY? Thats just plain stupid as far as arguments go. Things have changed so VASTLY since then. Those were acts done by people I have no control over that would NOT approve of by any means. This differs from something like Iran, which is still indulging itself in such things as the blood libel against the jews and pushing for their extermination.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Oh, wait, Im sorry, ALMOST 3 CENTURIES AGO. For fucks sake, man, get with it. Those werent even Americans who did it, they where British colonists. Go take your beef over to the equally vacuous British imperialism caused everything debate.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W For fucks sake, learn to use the reply button correctly dickhead. I make no apologies for correcting yourself and your bum buddy CBfrmcardiff on your historical innacuracies/lies, and blatant hypocrisy.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Actually, I did it as a correction to my previous statement, which you seemed to have missed.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W What did i miss? The part where you explained your total historic inaccuracies/lies?
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Yes, its all incorrect even though a lot of what I said is common historical knowledge. My point is not that your completely wrong, but that you have a one sided argument.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Claiming the Palestinians are not oppressed, that the extermination of the Indians wasn't deliberate (albeit incomplete) genocide, and that the deliberate targeting of civilians in Berlin (among other areas) was 'only due to technology' are all, among other things you've said, TOTAL historic inaccuracies/lies.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Your still wrong about Berlin. The targeting of Berlin proper to cripple its civilian work force was a stratigic pillar of the RAF plan before the US even joined the war. The US just continued that.
The indian "genocide" was done at a completely different time, by people who's core values we almost universally reject. Does not apply.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W No you idiot, I am right that that the bombing was done to deliberately target the civilian population, as were the nukes in Japan, you are wrong to have deceitfully said it was 'merely due to technology', when you knew damn well that wasn't the case. I also never said the U.S. was the first to do it you moron, if i rape and murder someone does the fact others have done it before me negate it's unethicality? No, that is a logical fallacy.
joope666 4 months ago
Comment removed
mysock351W 4 months ago
@joope666 Again, one sided arguments. The fact that the Germans deliberately targeted the British as well, and arguably where the first to do so also goes unmentioned by you. You also fail to take into account that this was ALL OUT WAR and that the cities where key linchpins in wartime production. To not bomb Berlin while letting the Germans pound the hell out of the UK would have been suicide. Its a thinly vailed ideological claim to bolster the west is evil idea.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W Again, no you are just lying through your teeth. EVERYBODY knows the Nazis targeted civilians dipshits, because it's the victors who write history and the opposition's crimes are always included, it goes without saying, again with the strawman bullshit you love so much. And where did i say that the west was 'evil'? Jesus stop with the strawmen already, you really look retarded. It was done to slaughter civilians not for strategic/military reasons and this is documented, period.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 And now for the main point. In Hamas charter (and to a lesser extent Fatah's) is the call for the EXTERMINATION of the jewish peoples, and the return of Israel to its "proper" state as a Muslim land. In Islam, all land is viewed as belonging to Islam for all time, and we are just interlopers that have to be evicted so Islam can once again rule the earth.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W And again, Islam is not much worse if any than christianity, period. They both worship the same sadistic genocidal god, and both have given rise to imperialistic crusades in the name of their god and terrorism, both religious and state-sanctioned, period.
joope666 4 months ago
@joope666 Lastly, the fact that you STILL cant see that Christianity and Islam are completly different almost makes it a moot point to engage you. The fact that Islam has the same prophets does not automatically make it the same as Christianity. Islam is first and foremost a totalitarian system of rule that subjugates its citizens and mandates war against non-muslims. While the bible depicts violence, the Quran CALLS for violence, and glorifies it at every turn. Theyre not relative at all.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W they`re both shit....just like every belief without evidence.
ThreeLions89 4 months ago
@ThreeLions89 I reject them all as crap. But that does not mean that there are not distinct differences between the two. While christianity is a turd floating around in the fountain of knowledge, Islam is a huge truckload of bullshit taking up the entire middle and blocking the spring that feeds it.
mysock351W 4 months ago
@mysock351W No you idiot the only difference between christianity and islam is that while islam overtly endorses/incites violence against non-believers christianity does it 'subversively', yet it is still painfully obvious. BOTH books feature excessive cruelty/violence against non-believers, violence and cruelty which is SANCTIONED by the same malicious god BOTH books preach about. Both christianity AND islam incite violence against non-believers, period.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 Have you read either the bible or the quran? Ive read BOTH, and there are definite differences. If you have not, then YOUR the idiot for passing judgement without actually bothering to examine either. The bible DEPICTS violence, but has a softer new testament. The quran MANDATES violence. Additionally, Islam proper regards the quran as ABSOLUTE and valid for all eternity while most of christianity regards the bible as inspired rather than absolute and subject to change and reformation.
mysock351W 3 months ago
@mysock351W So far the only proof you have that Islam is inherently more violent than christianity is because while the Quran (allegedly) overtly mandates violence the bible only 'subversively' sanctions violence against non-believers (even though it is PAINFULLY obvious), even though there are passages in the bible OVERTLY calling for the death of non-believers or those who act out some now long-gone tradition of a rival faith. Yep, you are totally full of shit dude, signed sealed and shut.
joope666 3 months ago
@joope666 Obviously youve never read EITHER of them. So... It is YOU who is full of shit. Theyre both different in scripture as well as practice. If you want examples of the violence, check out the ongoing violence in Egypt, Thailand, and elsewhere. All done in the name of Islam. Anyway, seems like your too buisy living life with your head up your ass, so its a wasted effort to even bother discussing it