Regarding the "vertical banding" you see on almost all "NES2" (NES top-loader) units: this has been discussed for years now on the nesdev bbs/forum over on Parodius (hosting provider). The problem is not with RF or "interference": the problem has to do with shitty video circuitry / video amplification board circuitry. There have been numerous proposed fixes, but they all conflict with one another and none fully solve the problem. Some also require parts from a front-loader.
and the box loader you have to mess with the cartridge to get it to work. most of the time you get a blue/ black flashing screen on it. On the top loader you get none of that at all.
I just got a NES top loader console for christmas. I like it better because it plays games practically on the first try. I blow the cartridge a little bit to get dust and works perfect. It is also more rare than the box loader a.k.a toaster. But yes box loaders are easy to find but expensive at your local video game store like th exchange. they charge $50 for a bad condition box loader. Its all yellowed and looks bad. The top loaders have held there color throughout the years a play ablility.
i got the first nes from lukie games it works great i love it and your right the old nes works good but the only bad part about the old nes you have to move the game around to get it to work because of the new 72 pin that they put in it just saying but lukie games is a great place to get an old nes or what ever
It's always good when buying a used system from years ago to go with the original first models made,not the next models that were watered down so to speak.They cut price cost by taking away stuff or just using cheaper parts.
the top loader doesn't support a game genie either....i've owned one for years ever since my original nes took a shit......the top loader has worked for years i have never had a problem with it
I find that the lines are A LOT more noticeable on a flat screen CRT TV. They really stand out like a sore thumb. On a standard curved CRT TV, they aren't that noticeable as you have to look closely to notice them.
I bought a Top Loader back in 1996 and never noticed the vertical lines until about five years later when I read comments online....after that I couldn't do anything BUT notice them. I had to go out and buy an original one to enjoy the better picture quality. I still love my Top Loader though, it was actually the first NES I ever had
Is the picture on the famicom version identical to the toaster? I ask because it is a much smaller machine perhaps the picture/shielding might be more like the nes 2. Also was there ever a equivalent of the nes 2 in japan like a famicom 2/jr?
@Standard420247 The funny thing is the original Famicom never had AV output only RF but then yes they got a Famicom 2/jr called the "AV Famicom" witch looks like our top loader BUT added AV output. So when they got that model it was to add AV and when we got it they took it away!
@MegaCandy39 Get a Retron 3 revision 2 it plays most NES games (more than other clones since it has the rev 2 NoC) and it also plays Genesis and SNES games, has s-video output (for Genesis and SNES) and can use the real controllers for them all. It's like the Cadillac of clones I guess.
lol wow! i was just searching this on youtube and i found out u made this! (i watched every one of your videos so i was surprised i didnt know it was you)
the quality on the top-loader is far better than i expected when i heard about the lines and what not, from this video it looks like the two aren't that different
@wesley12106 There could be but nothing I've noticed other than the lack of AV output if you run to a stereo that is. But on the TV I doubt there's any noticable difference in audio.
to be honest i prefer the clones....i have all the original hardware and i find my self cracking open that stuff way to much....in hind sight having bought clones would have reduced clutter....go for clones its cool to have the original thing but to be honest i have allways just been into it for the game
The reason there are lines on the screen is due to what is called an RF Leak. When I purchased my Top Loader when it hit the market, I remembered calling Nintendo and that is what they told me. They repaired it for free.
I think he was asking if anyone wants an original style NES, not an actual toaster. By the way, if you are making fun of a dumb joke from Hotel Mario, toasters technically toast bread.
I thought the top loader had a version that used AV cables? I could have sworn the one I sold used them. That was 10 years ago when I sold it so I don't really remember for sure.
@SegaVsNin Read the description. There was a rare AV version that Nintendo didn't sell but possibly game out as warranty replacements and they are very rare. If you had one of those you never should have sold it!
@MN12BIRD I'm just glad I got the Tri-Star Super 8 NES to SNES adapter, not only can I play NES games on my SNES but Famicom games too. If I had good or bad things to say about NES2 Top Loader the bad would be the TV lines and the NES Game Genie won't fit it (it will fit the Super 8) as for good no NES 10NES chip so no blinking light cartage blow mess plus better pins much better then the Toaster and I like the new Dogbone Controller over the old NES one I still use on Wii via adapter
I have a RetroDuo(NES/SNES) clone. Usually I'm a purist when it comes to gaming(thats why I never emulate) but the RetroDuo was the first retro game system I ever bought. Now it's more of a space issue. I can't fit an NES and an SNES in my setup. I have 1 more plug open on my extension cord and 1 more place where a system can go and those are reserved for the Atari 2600 that I plan to get. I do plan on getting an original NES and SNES some day but probably just for collect-ability.
AV Famicom is the best version. Actually Jake can you compare the toaster Mario Bros versus the Wii version thru component. I guess NES games on the Wii thru Virtual Console would be the "best" picture.
I use the toploader myself. But I did spend only $15 for it. I'm willing to deal with the video issues for the sake of having a much, much more reliable console. And yes, I did clean the connector and snip the chip on the toaster, and it still wasn't as reliable as the toploader.
Dude, these are my favorite kind of videos that you do. Just awesome. I have been getting pissed at my toaster lately. I have a new 72 pin and I cut out the 10NES. It starts up just fine but after playing for a few minutes it starts glitching out on me. I don't know what the deal is. I have to use a clone to capture my game footage at this point because I don't want to run the RF on my toploader through the VCR because I am too lazy to set that all up.
Nice video! I do own both toaster and top loader. My childhood toaster still works to this day because I took the best of care maintaining it. So I only use my ORIGINAL library of games with that console. My second hand top loader will play all my second hand thrift store games and the like. Worse picture but I can deal with it.
Hey, once you see those vertical lines it's hard to un-see them. Another thing you might consider is the TV you're playing it on. The HDTV I have my top loader hooked to has some noise reduction options in the picture settings. It's not perfect, but it does clean up the vertical lines enough that they're not distracting. So short tip, i you're pplaying on a HDTV< fiddle with your picture settings.
I wonder why the top loader sells for so much more? Obviously the toaster has the better picture but I'd say the top loader sells for about twice as much. Is it the rarity?
I actually bought a toaster type NES today. First time I have ever played a real NES and it is so awesome. It only cost me 49 dollars but it didn't have controllers or cables. Luckily enough it just uses AV cables and the SNES uses the same power adaptor. So I just used that one and bought a couple of controllers from another store around there. Even got a zapper for it and it works PERFECTLY! Unfortunately it doesn't work with my lcd tv but on my old crt it works just fine.
@ezri85 No they don't the original NES still has no vertical lines on RF plus the way I see it this is the best picture you can get out of a stock toaster vs a stock top loader so it's fair. The fact the top loader doesn't have AV out isn't my fault.
I think the problem with the vertical lines on the Top-Loader NES is due to interference on several parts of the video circuitry. For starters, if you bypass the trace linking the 2C02's Composite output to the first part in the video amp(a transistor) and remove said trace, the lines become much more faint. I do believe the definitive fix for removing the vertical lines without doing an A/V mod is to completely rebuild the video amp away from the motherboard, i.e. on top of the RF shield.
At the same time, make sure there are no connections from the Top-Loader NES' on-board video amp being made either to the RF modulator or to the 2C02. Any connection being made to that amp when using a rebuilt video amp will not eliminate the vertical lines. I still haven't personally tested this, but from what I've seen for the Top-Loader NES A/V mod, it could very well be possible to just rebuild the Top-Loader NES' on-board video amp and run the amplified Composite through the RF modulator.
Picture are not so bad on Top Loader. Is still better than clones and all NES games may not work on clones. I have Mega Drive clone and is crap. Video is better than RF but sound is terrible and mono only. And very good comparison you made.
Oh another thing. There are toploaders that have AV out from the factory. Some of the very last NES 2's out had them and if you contacted nintendo complaining about the picture quality Nintendo would let you send in the model 2 NES and send it back with AV out. There's a video on here somewhere showing off an NES 2 with AV out from the factory. They're just much more rare than the standard model 2s.
I still have my original NES (not NES 2) and I never had to change my pin connecters & they work perfectly :D I wish I had the top loader though just to have it
I always hate it when people call the front loader the "toaster" because it looks nothing like a toaster. At all. Every toaster I've ever seen the bread is loaded in the top...like the top loader. The original looks more like a VCR than anything. Just saying. :D
I myself prefer the top loader, I honestly don't care how crisp the image is as long as it's clear enough. Besides I play on a 19 in CRT so I don't notice the lines as much.
Here's another option and IMO the best, Wii Virtual Console. Flawless emulation and better picture and sound quality than either the toaster or the top loader.
MN12BIRD that was a tremendously good video; I've never seen such a close comparison, so thank you for doing this video!! As far as getting a top-loader, I would like to ad that it's probably going to cost less if you get one from a marketplace on a video game forum-like the site Atari Age, for example. If you register on there, people there will give you a LOT more reasonable prices on oldschool hardware and games then people on Ebay will.
If I was watching this 15 years ago then this video would have been relevant to me... good job on the review, but I honestly don't understand how in this day and age people are still interested in outdated VG consoles such as the NES. And I'm saying this as a kid who grew up on playing NES games and used to love them... but I mean come on already... how can they still be interesting after all this time and with the games of today? (And no, I don't just mean in terms of graphics!)
@solidjose54 you can use a flat screnn but because of the tv's higher resolution you are not going to get as sharp of a picture as you would an standard resolution (old) tv. the reason being that the video signal coming out of the nes is 720X486, meaning you high def wide screen you need to blow up the image, causing it to loose quality.
Kinda like when you look at a jpeg on your monitor then zoom in on it....It becomes less crisp.
It's good to note that if a simple AV mod is performed (basically just adding the RCA jacks) and no alterations to the board are done, the lines will still appear. There seems to be a problem with the layout of the video signal circuit within the board. If you completely remove that line of components and rebuild them on a separate hobby board, the picture will clean up perfectly - but of course that's a daunting task, even in comparison to a simple rigged RCA-jack mod.
I don`t understand why Countries outside Europe never used a RGB-Scart cable. From what i understand in the US they still use the Yellow, red and White cable. On todays HD-TVs the picture quality with this cable is bad.
@gustoThegangsta Yeah I know it makes no sense to me why RGB didn't catch on over here. Most old video games use it internally and most of our older TV's did too! We made everything over complicated with YPBPR component.
all the second versions of game consoles sucks. they cut some great features to reduce the cost. The master system 2 had the same problem no AV output like the Master system one. I don`t like to play my retro games through a antenne signal.
I live in Europe. Here we have the scart cables. I use some good RGB scart cables for the ps1, ps2, cube, xbox , Dreamcast and Saturn. I can use these consoles with the RGB signal. Thepicture quality is awesome!!
I have a NES2 and I have plans to AV-mod it. Not because I want to, but because I have to. Our tv:s in Europe seem to have a different frequence band, and it is hard to tune in any picture at all.
The quality doesn't look terrible, just a bit washed out, and o course the lines, and a bit of softness.
Also why is the intro demonstration all out of sync on yours?Mario is supposed to get hit by a goomba and die at the end of the demonstration, not just stand there humping a pipe.
I was driving to work 1 day and i seen a trash pile on the street and low and behold the was a toaster NES i paid $15 for new 72 pin connector i had controllers and an atari 800 pc adapter in my attic. NES toaster: $0 72pin connector: $15 The look on my face after the repairs and disabling the 10nes and powering it up: Priceless :D
Very well done. I actually would have liked to have seen an RF to RF comparison. I think the toaster would still have had a better picture. I guess we'll never know...
Also when buying a power source for the famicom DO NOT USE THE NES POWER ADAPTER IT WILL FRY THE MOTHERBOARD OF THE FAMICOM(NES uses 9volt AC and the famicom uses 9 volts DC). You can use a Sega Genesis1/CD power adapter on a famicom.
Great informative video that sums it up what i was trying to say on the other video.
The AV famicom i own does put out a good video signal like the original nes.
1 thing about the av famicom i would like to point out is some adapters will not work with castevania 3 or any mmc5 mapper carts due to the adapter pinouts. There are adapters out there that will work with those carts though but are rare to find. Note zapper games require the famicom zapper or a controller 2 mod from the side port.
Great informative video that sums it up what i was trying to say on the other video.
The AV famicom i own does put out a good video signal like the original nes.
1 thing about the av famicom i would like to point out is some adapters will not work with castevania 3 or any mmc5 mapper carts due to the adapter pinouts. There are adapters out there that will work with those carts though but are rare to find. Note zapper games require the famicom zapper or a controller 2 mod from the side port
The NES's graphics resolution is low enough that the difference in sharpness between composite and RF is minimal, and the colors can be corrected by adjusting the brightness and tint on your TV. So then it really just comes down to whether or not the NES2's vertical lines annoy you enough to distract from the gameplay.
wow that is quite a difference, and yeah I think your right, get the original then get the top loader. I wish i knew how to do those crazy mods people do like making an NES1 into a top-loader with an actual decent looking case (I rather dislike clear box cases)
I have an original toaster NES. I was told the 72 pin connectors had been refurbished by an employee at the shop i purchased the system at. The system has served me well for the past three months. You know ur NES's. Good video.
It makes no sense to me why people would get a Top Loader over a Toaster. I mean come on. The original NES is SOOOOOO easy to work on. Apparently people would rather spend $50 more for lesser video quality than 10 minutes with a screwdriver.
@MN12BIRD Hes actually really quiet in real life from what I've seen. But getting it signed by him and Mike was really cool. Its deff my fav peice from my little collection, even more than my 'oddities' like the Volley X and FairChild VES.
There was a very rare version of the NES Top Loader that did have a SNES/N64/Gamecube AV-out. It was only installed in systems that were sent in for repairs for malfunctioning RF outs.
@RetroGamerr1991 Yeah I've seen one before I think it was a fellow youtuber here who got one. I mentioned that in the description but I wasn't exactly sure where they came from. Would have been awesome to get one of those that's for sure.
Very illustrative, I love your comparison videos. I know I'm asking too much, but it would be nice to see a famicom vs nes video. Thanks for giving us some of your time
MN12BIRD honestly, i don't care what i get. if i get vertical lines, its fine. if i get less sharper images, its fine. if i get lesser picture quality, its fine. i'd go with the NES-2 because it can play anything.
@yeaitwasme I am fed up with people complaining about the youtube layout without giving any constructive criticism. It is irritating they made these changes to try and push youtube as a Facebook-completing social networking site, but the old layout was in no way organised. You could only see 8 subscription uploads listed at once, you had to scroll to the bottom of the page to see comment replies and messages and grouping uploads by the same channels works much better. Make CONSTRUCTIVE criticism
I like my NES Top Loader; sure the video quality isn't the best...but it works consistently. :D
bloodyrandi 2 weeks ago
Regarding the "vertical banding" you see on almost all "NES2" (NES top-loader) units: this has been discussed for years now on the nesdev bbs/forum over on Parodius (hosting provider). The problem is not with RF or "interference": the problem has to do with shitty video circuitry / video amplification board circuitry. There have been numerous proposed fixes, but they all conflict with one another and none fully solve the problem. Some also require parts from a front-loader.
dukandricka 4 weeks ago
The major drawback to the AV Famicom + converter plan is that US controllers and peripherals wont work without modification.
johnandrewthomas1981 1 month ago
The picture from my PAL toaster looks like the toploader you were showing.
acquiesce67 1 month ago in playlist More videos from MN12BIRD
and the box loader you have to mess with the cartridge to get it to work. most of the time you get a blue/ black flashing screen on it. On the top loader you get none of that at all.
cosmic1125 2 months ago
I just got a NES top loader console for christmas. I like it better because it plays games practically on the first try. I blow the cartridge a little bit to get dust and works perfect. It is also more rare than the box loader a.k.a toaster. But yes box loaders are easy to find but expensive at your local video game store like th exchange. they charge $50 for a bad condition box loader. Its all yellowed and looks bad. The top loaders have held there color throughout the years a play ablility.
cosmic1125 2 months ago
stop biching the toploader is just fine
TheOrangex88 2 months ago
i got the first nes from lukie games it works great i love it and your right the old nes works good but the only bad part about the old nes you have to move the game around to get it to work because of the new 72 pin that they put in it just saying but lukie games is a great place to get an old nes or what ever
billyv2000 2 months ago
It's always good when buying a used system from years ago to go with the original first models made,not the next models that were watered down so to speak.They cut price cost by taking away stuff or just using cheaper parts.
TboneNYC10 2 months ago
the top loader doesn't support a game genie either....i've owned one for years ever since my original nes took a shit......the top loader has worked for years i have never had a problem with it
G1985HEAJX 3 months ago
I find that the lines are A LOT more noticeable on a flat screen CRT TV. They really stand out like a sore thumb. On a standard curved CRT TV, they aren't that noticeable as you have to look closely to notice them.
Chantumon 4 months ago
1 person is a Playstation fan!!
RetroParadize 5 months ago
I bought a Top Loader back in 1996 and never noticed the vertical lines until about five years later when I read comments online....after that I couldn't do anything BUT notice them. I had to go out and buy an original one to enjoy the better picture quality. I still love my Top Loader though, it was actually the first NES I ever had
TRJ22487ISDEAD 5 months ago
Is the picture on the famicom version identical to the toaster? I ask because it is a much smaller machine perhaps the picture/shielding might be more like the nes 2. Also was there ever a equivalent of the nes 2 in japan like a famicom 2/jr?
Standard420247 5 months ago
@Standard420247 The funny thing is the original Famicom never had AV output only RF but then yes they got a Famicom 2/jr called the "AV Famicom" witch looks like our top loader BUT added AV output. So when they got that model it was to add AV and when we got it they took it away!
MN12BIRD 5 months ago
@MegaCandy39 Yep you can even get 480p with component cables! Can't beat that!
MN12BIRD 5 months ago
@MegaCandy39 No NES ever inc any clones use S-Video. The NES GPU runs native composite.
MN12BIRD 5 months ago
@MegaCandy39 Get a Retron 3 revision 2 it plays most NES games (more than other clones since it has the rev 2 NoC) and it also plays Genesis and SNES games, has s-video output (for Genesis and SNES) and can use the real controllers for them all. It's like the Cadillac of clones I guess.
MN12BIRD 6 months ago
lol wow! i was just searching this on youtube and i found out u made this! (i watched every one of your videos so i was surprised i didnt know it was you)
ZapperTheHedgehog45 6 months ago
i have both but my top loader's reset button wont work is there anyway to fix that?
TheAustinB15 6 months ago
the quality on the top-loader is far better than i expected when i heard about the lines and what not, from this video it looks like the two aren't that different
PADetz 8 months ago
@PADetz Its not really worth it to be critical on 8-bit graphics : /
NonstopRam 8 months ago
What about audio difference?
wesley12106 8 months ago
@wesley12106 There could be but nothing I've noticed other than the lack of AV output if you run to a stereo that is. But on the TV I doubt there's any noticable difference in audio.
MN12BIRD 8 months ago
to be honest i prefer the clones....i have all the original hardware and i find my self cracking open that stuff way to much....in hind sight having bought clones would have reduced clutter....go for clones its cool to have the original thing but to be honest i have allways just been into it for the game
christopher682009 10 months ago
The reason there are lines on the screen is due to what is called an RF Leak. When I purchased my Top Loader when it hit the market, I remembered calling Nintendo and that is what they told me. They repaired it for free.
goofy3696 10 months ago
is the thing on the right a fucking console? it looks retarded.
warvad 10 months ago
the design of the original toaster looks best :D
nintendodabezt 11 months ago
Why would i wanna buy an original toaster? my toaster works just fine. It toasts toast real good.
Joemamma69000 11 months ago 10
@Joemamma69000 Y'know what they say, all toasters toast toast!
wesley12106 8 months ago
@wesley12106 Don't put pop culture references onto this sophisticated video.
Joemamma69000 8 months ago
@Joemamma69000
I think he was asking if anyone wants an original style NES, not an actual toaster. By the way, if you are making fun of a dumb joke from Hotel Mario, toasters technically toast bread.
ScrewThebento 7 months ago
@ScrewThebento "sarcasm"
Joemamma69000 7 months ago
@Joemamma69000 You don't know how hard I laughed after reading your comment! xD Thumbs Up!
honkifyalikebeer1979 3 days ago
Where can i get an horizontal loading toaster :D.
UltraPic 11 months ago
@UltraPic Yeah not sure why people started calling the original the toaster. It's more like a toaster oven I guess?
MN12BIRD 11 months ago
Hi, just to let you know this video has now been featured on YTgaming.com
jurassicjunkie 1 year ago
Very informative, thanks.
Surreal3650 1 year ago
excellent video
vacuumnoise 1 year ago
I thought the top loader had a version that used AV cables? I could have sworn the one I sold used them. That was 10 years ago when I sold it so I don't really remember for sure.
SegaVsNin 1 year ago
@SegaVsNin Read the description. There was a rare AV version that Nintendo didn't sell but possibly game out as warranty replacements and they are very rare. If you had one of those you never should have sold it!
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
@MN12BIRD awww man I never knew.
SegaVsNin 1 year ago
@MN12BIRD I'm just glad I got the Tri-Star Super 8 NES to SNES adapter, not only can I play NES games on my SNES but Famicom games too. If I had good or bad things to say about NES2 Top Loader the bad would be the TV lines and the NES Game Genie won't fit it (it will fit the Super 8) as for good no NES 10NES chip so no blinking light cartage blow mess plus better pins much better then the Toaster and I like the new Dogbone Controller over the old NES one I still use on Wii via adapter
loomp 11 months ago
Its not that hard to change the front loader......who wants to put the time to put the time in things anymore?
igma17 1 year ago
You have my keyboard
nevermind1534 1 year ago
I have a RetroDuo(NES/SNES) clone. Usually I'm a purist when it comes to gaming(thats why I never emulate) but the RetroDuo was the first retro game system I ever bought. Now it's more of a space issue. I can't fit an NES and an SNES in my setup. I have 1 more plug open on my extension cord and 1 more place where a system can go and those are reserved for the Atari 2600 that I plan to get. I do plan on getting an original NES and SNES some day but probably just for collect-ability.
PersonNinja 1 year ago
AV Famicom is the best version. Actually Jake can you compare the toaster Mario Bros versus the Wii version thru component. I guess NES games on the Wii thru Virtual Console would be the "best" picture.
romeoteknik 1 year ago
AV Famicom is the best version.
romeoteknik 1 year ago
I use the toploader myself. But I did spend only $15 for it. I'm willing to deal with the video issues for the sake of having a much, much more reliable console. And yes, I did clean the connector and snip the chip on the toaster, and it still wasn't as reliable as the toploader.
jferio 1 year ago
toaster looks and plays better
KillingJoke696 1 year ago
I also agree with the commenter that wanted to see clone vs. NES2.
vintagevideogamegeek 1 year ago 3
Dude, these are my favorite kind of videos that you do. Just awesome. I have been getting pissed at my toaster lately. I have a new 72 pin and I cut out the 10NES. It starts up just fine but after playing for a few minutes it starts glitching out on me. I don't know what the deal is. I have to use a clone to capture my game footage at this point because I don't want to run the RF on my toploader through the VCR because I am too lazy to set that all up.
vintagevideogamegeek 1 year ago
Nice video! I do own both toaster and top loader. My childhood toaster still works to this day because I took the best of care maintaining it. So I only use my ORIGINAL library of games with that console. My second hand top loader will play all my second hand thrift store games and the like. Worse picture but I can deal with it.
Caztro72 1 year ago
Hey, once you see those vertical lines it's hard to un-see them. Another thing you might consider is the TV you're playing it on. The HDTV I have my top loader hooked to has some noise reduction options in the picture settings. It's not perfect, but it does clean up the vertical lines enough that they're not distracting. So short tip, i you're pplaying on a HDTV< fiddle with your picture settings.
nightbirdds 1 year ago
i'm all good to go i own both a PAL toaster(i live in the UK ya see) a RF famicom and a AV famicom plus a NES on famicom converter lol
Jago666 1 year ago
@Jago666 Yeah the AV Famicom is nice ;)
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
I wonder why the top loader sells for so much more? Obviously the toaster has the better picture but I'd say the top loader sells for about twice as much. Is it the rarity?
soonerproud6969 1 year ago
@soonerproud6969 Yeah it's just because theres so much less of them out there compared to the original.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
I actually bought a toaster type NES today. First time I have ever played a real NES and it is so awesome. It only cost me 49 dollars but it didn't have controllers or cables. Luckily enough it just uses AV cables and the SNES uses the same power adaptor. So I just used that one and bought a couple of controllers from another store around there. Even got a zapper for it and it works PERFECTLY! Unfortunately it doesn't work with my lcd tv but on my old crt it works just fine.
nfistfu 1 year ago
@nfistfu Ahh You're from Austrilia our SNES over here uses a different jack so you can't use it on the NES but yours can.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
I'm stick with NES classic toaster and Wii Virtual Console!
vikingscool 1 year ago
you should do RF on both for comparison.
crusherbad64 1 year ago
You'd think the top loader would be called the toaster.
UltraPic 1 year ago
you don't need to change or clean any carts. just get a powerpak. it even has built in game genie support
scir91 1 year ago
Very interesting stuff. TOASTER FOR THE WIN!!
Now i feel like eating toast...
TruGamer128 1 year ago
Comparing the top loader's RF output to the front loader's composite seems unfair. The RF output of both look the same.
ezri85 1 year ago
@ezri85 No they don't the original NES still has no vertical lines on RF plus the way I see it this is the best picture you can get out of a stock toaster vs a stock top loader so it's fair. The fact the top loader doesn't have AV out isn't my fault.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
I think the problem with the vertical lines on the Top-Loader NES is due to interference on several parts of the video circuitry. For starters, if you bypass the trace linking the 2C02's Composite output to the first part in the video amp(a transistor) and remove said trace, the lines become much more faint. I do believe the definitive fix for removing the vertical lines without doing an A/V mod is to completely rebuild the video amp away from the motherboard, i.e. on top of the RF shield.
Ace9921 1 year ago
At the same time, make sure there are no connections from the Top-Loader NES' on-board video amp being made either to the RF modulator or to the 2C02. Any connection being made to that amp when using a rebuilt video amp will not eliminate the vertical lines. I still haven't personally tested this, but from what I've seen for the Top-Loader NES A/V mod, it could very well be possible to just rebuild the Top-Loader NES' on-board video amp and run the amplified Composite through the RF modulator.
Ace9921 1 year ago
Picture are not so bad on Top Loader. Is still better than clones and all NES games may not work on clones. I have Mega Drive clone and is crap. Video is better than RF but sound is terrible and mono only. And very good comparison you made.
prulcan 1 year ago
Oh another thing. There are toploaders that have AV out from the factory. Some of the very last NES 2's out had them and if you contacted nintendo complaining about the picture quality Nintendo would let you send in the model 2 NES and send it back with AV out. There's a video on here somewhere showing off an NES 2 with AV out from the factory. They're just much more rare than the standard model 2s.
JerryTerrifying 1 year ago
great video comparison! The collector in me will over look these problems and will end up getting the top loader anyways :)
8BitGoomba 1 year ago
clones can give you better video then original nes
CrAzY3AGL3 1 year ago
I`de just mod it! Can`t be that hard to find a tutorial and slap some cheap AV sockets on it! But that`s just what i think! Cool comparison vid!
Keep it cool!
Cheers!
shock25sr 1 year ago
Very informative. Very well done, MN12BIRD. Would love similar videos in the future!
traphoot 1 year ago
I still have my original NES (not NES 2) and I never had to change my pin connecters & they work perfectly :D I wish I had the top loader though just to have it
papermario47 1 year ago
I always hate it when people call the front loader the "toaster" because it looks nothing like a toaster. At all. Every toaster I've ever seen the bread is loaded in the top...like the top loader. The original looks more like a VCR than anything. Just saying. :D
JerryTerrifying 1 year ago
I myself prefer the top loader, I honestly don't care how crisp the image is as long as it's clear enough. Besides I play on a 19 in CRT so I don't notice the lines as much.
PsychoKittyNet 1 year ago
the lines to me are not that bad.it lest u can see the picture.
TheMPatneaude 1 year ago
Here's another option and IMO the best, Wii Virtual Console. Flawless emulation and better picture and sound quality than either the toaster or the top loader.
vio2112 1 year ago
I have 5 of the toaster style US ones that all work in a cabinet in my room lol Donno why lol
Xenokai360 1 year ago
Great vid :) I woner if anyone has modded an original NES to play games vertically, is it even possible?
P5ychoFox 1 year ago
MN12BIRD that was a tremendously good video; I've never seen such a close comparison, so thank you for doing this video!! As far as getting a top-loader, I would like to ad that it's probably going to cost less if you get one from a marketplace on a video game forum-like the site Atari Age, for example. If you register on there, people there will give you a LOT more reasonable prices on oldschool hardware and games then people on Ebay will.
dave4shmups 1 year ago
@dave4shmups Even then, the top loader costs almost twice as much as a toaster.
sabombardonist 1 year ago
@sabombardonist True, but my point is that Ebay should be anyone's last resort when looking for a console like the NES top loader.
dave4shmups 1 year ago
I prefer performance over graphical picture. If I had a choice between getting the original NES and the top loader, I get the top loader.
ThatRedMageDude 1 year ago
I also wanted a NES toaster mod.
ZENXMETAL 1 year ago
If I was watching this 15 years ago then this video would have been relevant to me... good job on the review, but I honestly don't understand how in this day and age people are still interested in outdated VG consoles such as the NES. And I'm saying this as a kid who grew up on playing NES games and used to love them... but I mean come on already... how can they still be interesting after all this time and with the games of today? (And no, I don't just mean in terms of graphics!)
nanquan491 1 year ago
@nanquan491 the same reason ppl r still interested in older movies and classic music. just a matter of taste...
MegaCasualgamer 1 year ago
@MegaCasualgamer Yeah I suppose.
nanquan491 1 year ago
If you ever get a Twin Famicom you should compare the 3 :)
Soukyugurentai 1 year ago
An AV Famicom is cheaper then a NES 2 and has the same AV output as the
SNES, N64 and Game Cube.
Luk0872 1 year ago
@Luk0872
With Japanese shipping, AV Famicoms are definitely more expensive.
Soukyugurentai 1 year ago
Do you need a old school t.v to play nes or can i use my flat screen
solidjose54 1 year ago
@solidjose54 you can use a flat screnn but because of the tv's higher resolution you are not going to get as sharp of a picture as you would an standard resolution (old) tv. the reason being that the video signal coming out of the nes is 720X486, meaning you high def wide screen you need to blow up the image, causing it to loose quality.
Kinda like when you look at a jpeg on your monitor then zoom in on it....It becomes less crisp.
Captain8Bit 1 year ago
@Captain8Bit Thx ill just use my old ass t.v to play nes
solidjose54 1 year ago
I have never seen those top-loading NES systems here, in EU. I have only seen toaster NESs... I mean NES systems.
jopeteus 1 year ago
It's good to note that if a simple AV mod is performed (basically just adding the RCA jacks) and no alterations to the board are done, the lines will still appear. There seems to be a problem with the layout of the video signal circuit within the board. If you completely remove that line of components and rebuild them on a separate hobby board, the picture will clean up perfectly - but of course that's a daunting task, even in comparison to a simple rigged RCA-jack mod.
alecjahn 1 year ago
Toaster wins this one by far for me, like you say the colours are richer and the picture is sharper. Great video.
DANW547 1 year ago
I don`t understand why Countries outside Europe never used a RGB-Scart cable. From what i understand in the US they still use the Yellow, red and White cable. On todays HD-TVs the picture quality with this cable is bad.
part 2
gustoThegangsta 1 year ago
@gustoThegangsta Yeah I know it makes no sense to me why RGB didn't catch on over here. Most old video games use it internally and most of our older TV's did too! We made everything over complicated with YPBPR component.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
all the second versions of game consoles sucks. they cut some great features to reduce the cost. The master system 2 had the same problem no AV output like the Master system one. I don`t like to play my retro games through a antenne signal.
I live in Europe. Here we have the scart cables. I use some good RGB scart cables for the ps1, ps2, cube, xbox , Dreamcast and Saturn. I can use these consoles with the RGB signal. Thepicture quality is awesome!!
Part 1
gustoThegangsta 1 year ago
I have a NES2 and I have plans to AV-mod it. Not because I want to, but because I have to. Our tv:s in Europe seem to have a different frequence band, and it is hard to tune in any picture at all.
Anthraxegott 1 year ago
I just want a NES2 for rarity D:
Also, this was intresting news to know about ^^
Thanks for the video ^^
DragonUltraMaster 1 year ago
NES toaster all the way
jugghead82 1 year ago
The original NES with the lockout chip disabled is the way to go.
sinistermoon 1 year ago
In France the toploader had AV not RF since france didn't have AV =)
Bakemon13 1 year ago
The quality doesn't look terrible, just a bit washed out, and o course the lines, and a bit of softness.
Also why is the intro demonstration all out of sync on yours?Mario is supposed to get hit by a goomba and die at the end of the demonstration, not just stand there humping a pipe.
Aeduo 1 year ago
@Aeduo LOL seriously? That's really weird!
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
You are a very underrated Youtuber. Keep up the good work! I really enjoy your videos.
Darkglobe1977 1 year ago
I was driving to work 1 day and i seen a trash pile on the street and low and behold the was a toaster NES i paid $15 for new 72 pin connector i had controllers and an atari 800 pc adapter in my attic. NES toaster: $0 72pin connector: $15 The look on my face after the repairs and disabling the 10nes and powering it up: Priceless :D
icpizzaboy 1 year ago
I'd go with the original from what I've seen
De5con 1 year ago
Very well done. I actually would have liked to have seen an RF to RF comparison. I think the toaster would still have had a better picture. I guess we'll never know...
cgratton 1 year ago
@cgratton The rf picture quality of the toaster Blows the top loader away and sound is far better as well.
icpizzaboy 1 year ago
nes toaster all the way! nice fallout 3 lunchbox man you should review it next!
bong264 1 year ago
Also when buying a power source for the famicom DO NOT USE THE NES POWER ADAPTER IT WILL FRY THE MOTHERBOARD OF THE FAMICOM(NES uses 9volt AC and the famicom uses 9 volts DC). You can use a Sega Genesis1/CD power adapter on a famicom.
icpizzaboy 1 year ago
Great informative video that sums it up what i was trying to say on the other video.
The AV famicom i own does put out a good video signal like the original nes.
1 thing about the av famicom i would like to point out is some adapters will not work with castevania 3 or any mmc5 mapper carts due to the adapter pinouts. There are adapters out there that will work with those carts though but are rare to find. Note zapper games require the famicom zapper or a controller 2 mod from the side port.
icpizzaboy 1 year ago
Great informative video that sums it up what i was trying to say on the other video.
The AV famicom i own does put out a good video signal like the original nes.
1 thing about the av famicom i would like to point out is some adapters will not work with castevania 3 or any mmc5 mapper carts due to the adapter pinouts. There are adapters out there that will work with those carts though but are rare to find. Note zapper games require the famicom zapper or a controller 2 mod from the side port
icpizzaboy 1 year ago
Great video! I never knew there was that big of a quality difference between the two!
NostalgiaKing 1 year ago
i say nes flat slider aka #1
cheaper and better quality
its not too hard to get a game to work , i have 2 nes'es
crammage 1 year ago
toaster? i think of it more of a vcr shape
crammage 1 year ago
What is the chip cut you were referring to please?
oldatarigamer 1 year ago
@oldatarigamer Search my videos for "10NES chip" and you'll see.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
Good video-enjoyed it, man!!!
71jbear 1 year ago
Great info thanks!
MaximumRD 1 year ago
Friggin' awesome video. Makes me feel a bit better about passing up a top-loader a little while back!
phreakindee 1 year ago
The NES's graphics resolution is low enough that the difference in sharpness between composite and RF is minimal, and the colors can be corrected by adjusting the brightness and tint on your TV. So then it really just comes down to whether or not the NES2's vertical lines annoy you enough to distract from the gameplay.
vwestlife 1 year ago
like the quote says "its always the old stuff/model that is THE BEST than the newer stuff"
Homebrew2all 1 year ago
@Homebrew2all or something smiler to that :P
Homebrew2all 1 year ago
And great video.
IntellivisionDude 1 year ago
Think i'll stick with my classic toaster, unless i just happen to run across a top loader for really cheap. It's all about nostalgia.
IntellivisionDude 1 year ago
great comparison, great job!
mista1two 1 year ago
is that a ibm ps/2 keyboard?
cmarshall1018 1 year ago
@cmarshall1018 Yep an IBM Model M
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
I want to get the famicom twin system but there way to much money
jose5080007 1 year ago
Great video!
thomas3120 1 year ago
wow that is quite a difference, and yeah I think your right, get the original then get the top loader. I wish i knew how to do those crazy mods people do like making an NES1 into a top-loader with an actual decent looking case (I rather dislike clear box cases)
Sypran 1 year ago
In Argentina there are only chinese-nes-clones, all of them have this horrible vertical lines...
pablopares 1 year ago
I have an original toaster NES. I was told the 72 pin connectors had been refurbished by an employee at the shop i purchased the system at. The system has served me well for the past three months. You know ur NES's. Good video.
PearlJammer07 1 year ago
It makes no sense to me why people would get a Top Loader over a Toaster. I mean come on. The original NES is SOOOOOO easy to work on. Apparently people would rather spend $50 more for lesser video quality than 10 minutes with a screwdriver.
RetroGamerr1991 1 year ago
I have 3 top loaders and a toaster. One of the top loaders is signed by Mike Matei and James Rolfe :D
Maus5000 1 year ago 13
@Maus5000 Sweet! That would be awesome to get an NES signed by the Nerd himself!
MN12BIRD 1 year ago 10
@MN12BIRD Hes actually really quiet in real life from what I've seen. But getting it signed by him and Mike was really cool. Its deff my fav peice from my little collection, even more than my 'oddities' like the Volley X and FairChild VES.
Maus5000 1 year ago
@Maus5000
:O
AWESOME
341464 1 year ago
@341464 Thank you. I've gotten other stuff signed by him but thats deffinetly my favorite.
Maus5000 1 year ago
@Maus5000
yh, that's priceless
341464 1 year ago
@341464 God forbid if I ever have to sell it I could make a nice profit from it. I pray that doesnt happen but now its a collectors item I suppose.
Maus5000 1 year ago
There was a very rare version of the NES Top Loader that did have a SNES/N64/Gamecube AV-out. It was only installed in systems that were sent in for repairs for malfunctioning RF outs.
RetroGamerr1991 1 year ago
@RetroGamerr1991 Yeah I've seen one before I think it was a fellow youtuber here who got one. I mentioned that in the description but I wasn't exactly sure where they came from. Would have been awesome to get one of those that's for sure.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
for me it doesn't matter as long as I have the game to play I don't really care, but great video though.
atari94 1 year ago
noice comparison!
mnopxs2 1 year ago
i need to fix the 72 pin on my toaster
WorthyouruniverseHD 1 year ago
They had the famicom top loader that had av
jose5080007 1 year ago
@jose5080007 Yeah the AV Famicom is cool but damn are they hard to find and expensive too!
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
@MN12BIRD do you have any idea how much its worth? i have never seen one except a buy now 200 dollars lol
Leoooonard 1 year ago
Very illustrative, I love your comparison videos. I know I'm asking too much, but it would be nice to see a famicom vs nes video. Thanks for giving us some of your time
loperaja 1 year ago
The Great MN12BIRD has spoken with his almighty video game wisdom
MichaelOKeefe2009 1 year ago
... ok, i don't want to av-mod the top loader. i forgot to watch the rest of the video :p im sticking with the gray box
doom1killer123 1 year ago
MN12BIRD honestly, i don't care what i get. if i get vertical lines, its fine. if i get less sharper images, its fine. if i get lesser picture quality, its fine. i'd go with the NES-2 because it can play anything.
doom1killer123 1 year ago
The AV Famicom does have everything you need in a top loading NES if you can find converter for it, I have that setup and it is worth it.
theimporter 1 year ago
Or you could go all thomas 3120 and make a toploading nes out of a toaster haha, nice video man :D
TreasureChestReviews 1 year ago
You should also do a sound quality comparison because the sound quality is drastically different between using composite and RF.
therealhardrock 1 year ago
well done, i almost forgot how terrible RF was
masteriansun 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dear YouTube,
The Like/Dislike system, I can live with. I've gotten used to it now.
The new comment layout, fine with me.
But THIS, is just too much too take! The front page has completely lost it's organised, simple layout!
I don't know where you get your ideas, but I think I speak for a big part of the community when I say "YouTube, go F*ck yourself."
I hate people who ask for thumbs up, but this is not meant to be funny. This is serious! Give this a thumbs up
yeaitwasme 1 year ago 14
@yeaitwasme I am fed up with people complaining about the youtube layout without giving any constructive criticism. It is irritating they made these changes to try and push youtube as a Facebook-completing social networking site, but the old layout was in no way organised. You could only see 8 subscription uploads listed at once, you had to scroll to the bottom of the page to see comment replies and messages and grouping uploads by the same channels works much better. Make CONSTRUCTIVE criticism
Raymiles2 1 year ago
@yeaitwasme thanks, i couldnt of put it anyway better. btw id like the stars back
doom1killer123 1 year ago
The Classic or the Oddity? I think I'll I go with the oddity, but then again I already have the classic
rejectofsoul24 1 year ago
@rejectofsoul24 That's what I say. Get the original FIRST then if you want the oddity for the sake of having it in your collection get it later.
MN12BIRD 1 year ago
Great Video.
thecelticwalls 1 year ago
nice comparison I must say. I have the original and I will always love that the best.
Cage820 1 year ago