Caplan and Boettke debate Austrian Economics 1/13

[MrBigEnchilada]

omfg 1 out of 13?? i just realized this lol why so many seperate videos?

[YourNameHere1212]

Isn't Epstein the guy that was sleeping with his daughter... Yeah. Nice.

[jackdav34]

Very funny @ 1:55!

[TheAttackRat]

Socialism economics = Creationism

Keynesian economics = Intelligent Design

Austrian economics = Evolution

Vote RON PAUL 2012

[RealLiveDebates]

@TheAttackRat I agree. Ironically though, Ron Paul doesn't believe in evolution :)



[86kinky86]

Caplan is awesome.

[AndroidPolitician]

They should get an actual economist to debate them.

[whoo689]

In order to really figure out what the data means and come up with a theory backed by evidence (or disproven by evidence), you need to use important statistical tools like regression analysis. There's just no way getting around it. Austrians have this really myopic fear of it and probably don't even know much statistical technique at all, which only further discredits their theories.

At face value, much of what they say does kind of make sense, but how do you know it's true...?

[godofreudson]

@whoo689 Look for Wittgenstein, Austrian Economics and the Logic of Action: Praxeological Investigations.

That's why it's true. Praxeology is just like logic. There's no way around it.

[whoo689]

I'm not sure quite what to make of Austrian econ. I used to be more of a hardcore Austrian, but now I'm not quite as convinced. I mean, for some weird reason, Austrians have a hard time with doing actual RESEARCH on these economic topics, using important tools like econometrics. Now, perhaps Caplan is right in that economics today places a little too much emphasis on math and models, but there's still a PLACE for that. You can't just look at data and make off-hand assumptions.

[whoo689]

@whoo689 Another trend that I've noticed among Austrians is that they don't follow the "correlation is not causation" rule in making judgments and theories. Perhaps the most well-known Austrian theory is that the business cycle is mainly caused by changes in the money supply, esp. when it comes to artificially manipulating interest rates.

Now, I don't doubt that the gov't getting involved and centrally planning our money supply can be bad, but the question is, how bad exactly?

[whoo689]

@whoo689 Austrians just assume the worst and don't do any follow-up studies to try to PROVE what they inherently believe about these things. They call their idiotic "method" "praxeology", some bogus mumbo-jumbo fancy word that doesn't really mean much of anything as far as I'm concerned. I mean, just about every single, if not every single, Austrian-authored book has very little data and facts and a lot of assumptions and theory. And esp. ZERO references to hardcore studies to back them up.

[whoo689]

@whoo689 You can't do that! You need solid evidence before you make assumptions such as "manipulating interest rates causes malinvestment which requires the economy to correct itself with recession." That sounds reasonable, but how do you know for sure? You can't unless you use special techniques that economists for the longest time outside Austrian econ. have used.

Austrians need to get over their fear of actual research and doing studies and get to it already.

[getnbusy2nite]

@whoo689 How do you feel about Austrian Predictive power? I sometimes feel the old phrase "even a broken watch is right two times a day" applies to them.

[whoo689]

@whoo689 I think you can count on one hand the amount of journal studies, legit or not, which attempt to even PROVE that the Austrian Business Cycle Theory is correct. And this is for a field of economics that has been around for over A HUNDRED YEARS!! I think most Austrians are just lazy and don't wanna go through all the math and techniques required to really prove their theories. So they just use rhetoric and logic.

[Audiofalcon7]

@whoo689 I think you're trolling. I'm laughing my ass off as a result. Hahahahahahaha.

[LodeCos]

How do you prove a logical deduction?

[whoo689]

@LodeCos Surely there must be SOME way to empirically test it, at least in social science. That's why economics is considered a social SCIENCE. This isn't the late 1800s and early 1900s before Keynes came along and all the other economists soon thereafter actually started STUDYING, with data and numbers and statistical tools and whathaveyou, the effects of certain policies, rather than just theorizing based on pure logic what "might happen" or supposedly "did happen."

[whoo689]

@LodeCos If it can't even be empirically tested to actually find out if your suppositions and theories are even CLOSE to true, what's the point? They're as good as guessing then. A science like econ should not be reduced to simply guessing based on logic and your own individual reading of history. Now, I won't totally discount Austrian econ, as their views on monetary policy do sort of make sense, to a fault. However, until they do major research on it, it's hard to tell either way.

[whoo689]

@LodeCos No offense, but it seems to me like Austrian economists are like the children of the economics world: they refuse to get in line with the empirical tools necessary to actually figure out if what they espouse is true, and they use dumbass excuses like "you can't study human behavior" or "it's not predictable like the natural world." Bullshit... It IS predictable to SOME extent. For example, take price theory.  When prices lower, people tend to buy more of your product.

[LodeCos]

@whoo689

No offense taken, and I'm not going to argue with you on this. You are probably familiar with the arguments that Austrians have raised against the position you are defending and, obviously, you didn't agree. :) If, however, you aren't familiar with a clear and systematic clarification of the points; I think the best theoretical defense is Mises his 'The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science'. But again; feel free to ignore this message.

[getnbusy2nite]

@equsnarnd Economists used econometrics to predict the fiscal/monetary efforts would have largest effect in Q3,Q4-2009 and we had 5% economic growth. Even devoted "Austrian" Peter Schiff said we would never have that kind of growth for years but we did. I myself used econometrics to predict client behaivor for a non-profit once. Though I will agree there is over-reliance on models.

Used " "s because he got Say's Law wrong...any true Austrian should know Say's Law like the bible.

[equsnarnd]

@getnbusy2nite I have Sowell's book on Say's law but that's as close as I've come to studying it.

[getnbusy2nite]

@equsnarnd I'm not Austrian nor Keynesian, but I hold respect for both schools. I do feel most (not all) Austrians are more Limbaugh than Menger or Böhm-Bawerk, and Keynes is something good that has been misused at times by government for special interest so both have their ilks like any.

I would be happy to engage in a friendly exchange of information about Say's Law if you would do me the pleasure of putting my MS Econ to use. Plus I have to thank you for a good book suggestion :)

[equsnarnd]

@getnbusy2nite Would you say that Bernake et al with their 'prime the pump' model don't understand or choose to ignore Say's Law. Would you say in all the clips on utube of Peter Schiff explaining the economy that he incorporates and understanding of Say's Law? And has anyone ever offered a proof of Say's Law. It seems more an observation than a law but...

[EasyEs]

@whoo689 Well data isn't always easy to collect and more often then not the definitions used in collecting and representing the data have little bearing on the real world.

One thing that is far to easy to do with data is do regression analysis's and manipulate it in a way that while is mathematically correct changes the relationship that the data has with the real world and human behavior.

[Betty5150]

I am very serious when I say this. Us Austrians like cookies. You non-Austrians do not. Thus, you're argument is in-valid.

Lrn2 Ludwig Von Mises.

[Sivels]

So all the guys (austrians) who called out the coming meltdown were wrong and all the keynesians who cheerleaded everything that was being done in the economy and the government were right? Are you living in some kind of fantasy where keynesianism is true? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[jstreet2]

Marginal futility makes wonderful humor and I'm surprised this great clip has elicited only one (non) comment (or maybe two - mine ;)

Austrian economics has always seemed slightly comedic to me and I'm not sure why.

Maybe the humor in this clip is due to the Falstaffian girth of Boettke and the Marxist (Groucho) mine of Caplan.

Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to the rest of the debate.

[badonkadonk34]

or how about the Falstaffian girth of Rosie O? Or do you prefer the pubescent figure of Ellen? Funny - I'll never understand why you are not a libertarian. The mob oppresses you from California to Florida. They drink your milkshake....THEY DRINK IT UP....

[asarualim999]

wOOt I have the first comment!

[ICTN218]

@asarualim999

wOOt you're a douchebag!