Obama on Church and State

[meintsd]

It is so sad...if my wife was murdered today--5 mo pregnant....it would be considered a double homicide. BUT, if we broke up, and she went and got an abortion of a NOW unwanted baby...it is a Choice...applauded by many...all because now that precious soul isn't wanted by it's mother. How sad??

[meintsd]

The church says abortion is murder.The State says..it is a choice.I want my State and my church to be separate,but I also want the people in my State to think.... Is this right? Do the words fetus and baby make the difference? When do we ascribe a new "word" to our elderly---because they are 'inconvenient, a bother, costly, incapable of providing to a productive society?" WHEN...? Maybe when those of you posting are in diapers and unable to feed yourselves? maybe then... I pray not!

[meintsd]

How about that it is murder of a human life, just because someone doesn't want it. Is that principal enough?

[Salsashark516]

@meintsd At the very least, your way moves it into a realm that does not rely on supernatural rationale. From there a different debate arises, but to say "because God said," doesn't work as a logical argument. The whole murder issue is a hot one, surely debatable, and one that may never reach a firm conclusion, as from my perspective both sides make viable points. Please do not read this response as an attempt to incite a debate about abortion.

[bmaseray]

@meintsd I think you need to read up on the Unbreakable Law of Unintended Consequences for why abortion needs to be legal.

[hongyewu]

LOL well said

[jfcool10]

Simply, well said Obama.

[NOSERPICOINUTAH]

These slogans, mind you, do not come from the United States Constitution or from Thomas Jefferson or from the mind of the Founding Fathers. These slogans come straight from the mind of Adolph Hitler,bearing a sobering similarity to the mantras of ACLU, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

Here they are, straight from the mind of Adolph Hitler:

"Politics do not belong in the Church."

"The Church must be separate from the State."

[Hinduspy]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Tell that to the founding fathers, who obviously saw religion as a very dividing issue and wanted to keep it out of politics. On a recent fox news survey, 95% of Americans believe religion should not play a part in politics.

[NOSERPICOINUTAH]

@thsgfbhb- “Do you know, where does this phrase ‘separation of church and state’ come from?” Urquhart asked at a campaign event last April. “It was not in Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists. … The exact phrase ‘separation of Church and State’ came out of Adolph Hitler’s mouth,.. So the next time your liberal friends talk about the separation of Church and State ask them why they’re Nazis.”--URQUHART WAS RIGHT!! RESEARCH HISTORY--NO SEPARATION IN 1ST AMENDMENT!! READ IT AGAIN!

[thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Setting aside the fact that your arguments are completely fallacious, I'm going to assume that I can still have a logical argument with you. You mention Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, well maybe you should bother to read it yourself. It's only three paragraphs, I'm sure you can muster through it.

[thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Not only does Jefferson mention the exact phrase "separation of Church & State" but he references the establishment phrase of the 1st Amendment that I mentioned in my first comment. I would post a link to the letter as it appears on the LOC website but YouTube won't let me, so I guess you'll have to look it up yourself. Frankly I'm not sure if you're just trolling.

[souleaterfan1234]

@thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb tell them google treaty of tripoli

I've printed it out and memorized it to those who say Seperation of Church and state is a myth/

[brokusstudios]

One cannot base the Law of many people on the religion of one people because NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME RELIGION. To say that everyone cannot eat pork because the Qur'an says not to is ridiculous. The same principles go for all nations. Religion is a personal practice. If you don't want to eat pork because of your religion that is FINE!!! But to keep others from eating pork based on your beliefs is absurd.

[NOSERPICOINUTAH]

HITLER ... A PROFESSING CHRISTIAN...WAS THE FOUNDER OF SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE . HE DIDNT WANT THE CHURCH TO INTERFERE WITH HIS TORTURES AND MURDER OF JEWS. HE WAS AN ANTI-CHRIST BUT THE ANTI-CHRIST WHO COMES NEXT WILL MAKE HITLER LOOK LIKE A BOY SCOUT...THEY ARE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING WE HAVE REPEATEDLY BEEN WARNED OF BY GOD ALMIGHTY.......WAKE UP.....WE ARE SEEING EARTHQUAKES AND DESTRUCTION BECAUSE OUR LEADERS TURN THEIR BACKS ON ISRAEL....BECAUSE OF ABORTION,SODOMY,LIARS,MURDER

[WakingLife55]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Gays also comment on YouTube videos; therefore you are gay.

[NOSERPICOINUTAH]

@WakingLife55 ---YOURS IS A LAME AND GAY COMMENT!!!!!--BY THE WAY HUN...YOU JUST COMMENTED ON A YOUTUBE VIDEO!!!

[thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb]

@NOSERPICOINUTAH Hitler was the "founder" of separation between church and state? Because I'm pretty sure the if you would bother to read the First Amendment of the US Constitution you will find this, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," written nearly 200 years before Hitler came to power. Grow a brain, and press your Caps Lock key again, please.

[NOSERPICOINUTAH]

@thsgfbhstsbtrtsthstb ----I JUST LOOKED AT YOUR CHANNEL PICTURE...DUDE..CUT BACK ON THE METH!!!!

[K1dNaStyLovesElectro]

Weak and vague; The typical argument of a religious person

[procritic09]

I much prefer this speech over any of his famous ones. His inauguration address was unsubstantial and had little in the way of content, however this one provides convincing arguments and eloquent defences of one of the most important concepts in modern politics.

[evolution759]

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IS NOT A LAW THERES EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT. YOU GUYS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUCH OF EVIL COMMUNIST

[hipstermi]

@evolution759

"SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IS NOT A LAW THERES EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT"

YOu know what is NOT in the Constitution- asshole Christianity! Or any mention of God, Jesus or the Bible!

your bullshit religion is NOT the law of the land!

" A BUCH OF EVIL COMMUNIST"

You obviously don't know what "communist" means...nor do you know how to spell or write proper English or in plural.

[elderaps]

Abortion is wrong because it is murder. Murder is already on the books as a law. So, yeah.

[johnnyroyal75]

Most people don't stand for anything. How are people to understand someone that have faith in God. Well if they choose not to, then they will not. the whole separation of Church and state I believe more an more every day was to protect religion, that is to say not just Christianity from the state, that is the people.

[romansten9]

How to believe the Myth of Separation: 1. Mis-Interpret a letter by Jefferson 2. Blatantly mis-interpret the 1st Amendment 3. Disregard Congressional record & Court records<1900 4. Read nothing written<1900 5. Believe all teachers&media 6. Ignore numerous mixing of church/state by Founders 7. Get all info 2nd hand, rather than the source 8. Mis-Interpret the Treaty of Tripoli&a small selection of founder's quotes 9. Use revised history books=God/faith have been omitted. 10. Ignore reason

[fede2]

@romansten9 "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" do you mean to say this is meant exclusively for christians? religious tolerance is a multi-lateral phenomenon and it can only work if the government remains neutral on the matter. the separation is a key cornerstone for a free society.

[romansten9]

@fede2 you said: "the separation is a key cornerstone for a free society"

Where did you hear that? In school? From a book? the media?

Separation as we know it today was largely circulated starting in 1947.

When the Bill of Rights was being written, NOT ONE person talked about "separation" And Jefferson was not even in the US at the time.

It would help to research this issue according to old/original documents, not what you have been taught in the 20th Century.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Where did you hear that? In school? From a book? the media?"

Did your PASTOR tell you to say that?

Christians...you want to talk about a brainwashing BOOK let's look at your Bible with it's magical stories.

and if we want to talk "media"...how many religious shows are on now? How many right wing conservatives have hours of radio and tv talk shows telling you what to think?

ANd your churches- "think this way or you go to HEL. Invisible silent GOD said ..."

[fede2]

@romansten9

[romansten9]

@fede2 You should read the US Congressional record and court records during the foundation of the US. They will show you what was discussed as the Bill of Rights was being written. Also, read what the founders wrote in their own handwriting. There are still intact documents. Then you can be assured that you are reading authentic quotes, and not what revisionists have added or taken away. Don't use books written after 1900, including school textbooks. They have been revised.

[fede2]

@romansten9 i'll great you for the sake of argument that history is on your side since i'm not american. my original point still stands.

"Where did you hear that? In school? From a book? the media?"

a free society is based on the respect for individual rights. having an entire populace forced to abide by the norms of one official faith is direct contrast to that goal.

[romansten9]

@fede2 I'm not asking to create a theocracy. Perhaps I should make that clear, because we both agree on that point.

The fact that "separation of church and state" is a myth is abundantly clear to anyone that researches the history of the U.S. by reading original documents, and not listening to the schools and media, (controlled by secular influences).

The fact is that the US is now largely controlled by "secular humanism" So, why is this "religion" allowed to "force the entire populace?"

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

""separation of church and state" is a myth ..., and not listening to the schools and media, (controlled by secular influences)."

Another Christian with a "problem" with education. CONSPIRACY THEORY All you are doing is parroting right wing talk show hosts.

On top of that...as a Christian you are told what to think by a MINISTER. That's way more control than a college professor.Minster- "God says" or you go to hell. No discourse there.

church= brainwashing + taking so much money

[romansten9]

@hipstermi sounds like someone brainwashed YOU and told you that churches brainwash people! LOL

I agree-there are bad churches out there. Maybe there are even some people that are being brainwashed.

BUT, I have seen FAR too much evidence to support what the Bible says. The archeology alone is staggering. Astronomy software can now prove that the Star of Bethlehem really happened. So did the eclipse that happened during Jesus' death.The Bible is the most authenticated ancient book.

[i3rucei3ruce]

@romansten9 Astronomy can prove that something happened during Jesus' death? How does astronomy know that the character of Jesus of the Bible even existed?

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"sounds like someone brainwashed YOU and told you that churches brainwash people! LOL"

All you did was repeat what I said about you and reverse it. That's "I know you are but what am I" which makes you look childish.

"I have seen FAR too much evidence to support what the Bible says."

Such as what? Did you levitate or resurrect anyone?

"The archeology alone is staggering"

List some then. You've been vague in a few posts now.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Astronomy software can now prove that the Star of Bethlehem really happened"

So? The Bible wrote about an actual event into their little story. I know George Washington existed, but the story of the "cherry tree" is bullshit. The Trojan War happened, and that doesn't prove Greek gods were real.

"The Bible is the most authenticated ancient book"

Did you "authenticate" a talking snake, sea parting, killing of all kids in Egypt, Jesus flying to heaven, etc?

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

I'd also like a straight answer this time- why do you think Jesus, Bible, God, talking snake, are NOT mentioned in the Constitution? Why not write "we are a Christian nation" in it?

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

You need to stop repeating canned conservative "talking points"

If you want to talk about "original documents" show me in the Constitution where Christianity, Jesus or the Bible is mentioned.

and to save time- don't bring up the usual canned conservative answer is "Declaration of Indp." as it is NOT law and is has an unnamed "Creator"

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

Also...if we didnt have a separation and you got your Jesus only fantasy- I see someone like Haggee takes control with religion. The Catholics are fucked.

A Catholic takes control- Charismatic practices will be called "devil"

[romansten9]

@fede2 Again, I'm not asking for a theocracy. But keep in mind, if a people wanted a guide book to promote freedom and liberty, to reduce crime and injustice, to allow people to live together in peace, to reduce poverty and increase giving, and to make a better country in general, what better book to abide by than the New Testament of the Bible?

Every time a population has done this, it has prospered.

Every time a society forgets God, it suffers.

History proves this.

[fede2]

@romansten9 "The fact is that the US is now largely controlled by 'secular humanism' So, why is this 'religion' allowed to 'force the entire populace?'"

all institutions must remain neurtal on these matters in order to respect a plurality of views and traditions. that all the separation is so if you don't whant a theocracy i don't know what you're complaining about.

"Every time a society forgets God, it suffers.

History proves this."

crusades? inquisition? aren't you being selective?

[romansten9]

@fede2 People do many things in the name of "religion" that is not God's plan for the world.

I'm talking about following God's lead, not following a church, a radical "believer" a cult or any of the long list of ways people twist something good into something evil.

That is why I said that people prosper for following God.

Thats why I didn't use the word "church" or "religion"

Huge difference.

[romansten9]

@fede2 You said "i don't know what you're complaining about."

I am talking "freedom of religion" as guaranteed in the 1st Amendment. In the foundation of the US, many things were permitted under this protection. Now we are seeing many things being challenged by the "myth of separation" Its funny how freedom was there for >150 years, and now people try to change the meaning of the 1st Amendment and remove freedoms. Nearly daily someone uses a court case to try to remove these freedoms.

[fede2]

@romansten9 if by freedom of religion you mean an individual's right to express their faith freely and uncoherced in the public square than i agree. but like i said originally this freedom is multi-lateral. it's not reserved exclusively for christians. that's why the gov't and preferably all institutions should not intervine or favor one over others. that's what the separation entails.

whether people are using it to stifle believers is a different story.

[romansten9]

@fede2 I understand what "separation" means. The point is that the founding fathers never intended the separation we are seeing today. The founding fathers attended church inside the US Capitol in Washington. They approved the printing of the Bible. The approved the use of the Bible in public schools. Those same people wrote the 1st Amendment. They didn't want anyone forced to be one denomination. But they DID WANT Christianity to be part of ALL life. Including government and school life.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"I understand what "separation" means. The point is that the founding fathers never intended the separation we are seeing today"

Speculation. I do know they did NOT write God, Jesus, or The Bible into the consitution...so they probably never intended the right wing conservatism that seems to want a theocracy.

also, which "Christianity" are you jonesing for? My Pentecostal friends believe a lot different than my Catholic friends.

This is America not "Jesus Land"

[romansten9]

@hipstermi God is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence 4 times, even though its a very short document.

They didn't have to mention God, their actions clearly showed that they believed in God and believed in including God very heavily in their daily duties in government office. They took recess from Congress to pray, attended church INSIDE the US Congress, etc, etc, etc. History tells the story, but you have to read from the source, not from modern twists of the truth.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"God is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence 4 times, even though its a very short document"

So when I saw show me in the CONSTITUTION....and I state "dont give canned conservative "Declaration" answer....you answer with the Declaration? Wow.

Not only that but you seem unaware the Declaration IS NOT LAW. Duhhhhhh

"didn't have to mention God, their actions clearly showed"

To bad their "actions" aren't law either.

American is not Jesus Land.

[romansten9]

@hipstermi

You ridicule my reference to the Declaration of Independence in response to your question about the Constitution.  Apparently you DO NOT understand the legal connections between the documents. The Declaration is the FOUNDATION on which the Constitution rests!

I guess you don't know this. So, I am the one that should be saying: WOW!

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"You ridicule my reference to the Declaration of Independence in response to your question about the Constitution. Apparently you DO NOT understand the legal connections between the documents"

Not true. I stated "not in the Constitution" and VERY CLEARLY stated "let's skip the Declaration because it's not the Constitution..." and your reply was...the Declaration.

On top of that the DECLARATION IS NOT LAW. The Constitution is.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"understand the legal connections between the documents. The Declaration is the FOUNDATION on which the Constitution rests!"

nothing I said contradicts this...but DECLARATION IS NOT LAW. Neither are the Articles of Confederation.

Do you even understand how American law works?

America- still not Jesus Land.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

You conservatives try this all the time- Mention the "Creator" of the NOT LAW Declaration. Mention "Founding Fathers believed..." What do you hope to gain?

People will say "Oh Creator! Beliefs of men from the 1700s! I guess that means we HAVE to be Christian...let's outlaw those gays now!"

It's a nation of ALL BELIEFS not "Jesus Land"

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"They took recess from Congress to pray, attended church INSIDE the US Congress"

This is not governing law either.

"History tells the story, but you have to read from the source, not from modern twists of the truth"

NOTHING you said has any bearing on the discussion. We are NOT bound by beliefs of 18th century fallible men.

if you say "founders believed it so we should do it", that can be used for women not voting or no civil rights for blacks. Founders left a system of change

[romansten9]

@fede2 "the gov't and preferably all institutions should not intervine or favor one over others"

but thats your opinion, and no matter how "right" and "fair" your opinion may sound, it is NOT what the 1st Amendment says! Thats what we are talking about. Please read the Amendment again and show me where it says ANYTHING about "not favoring"

It says "Congress shall make no law......"

This is the mistake people constantly make! Twisting the words of the Amendments!

[romansten9]

@fede2 We aren't talking about what you and I think is right or wrong. We are talking about the words and actions of those that wrote the 1st Amendment. These people believed that the Bible formed the basis of the law, of government and of life in the US. The court system punished people that used the name of God in vain. Whether you approve or not is not the issue, those are the people that founded the US. We would need to change the Bill of Rights to create a "separation"

[fede2]

@romansten9 "We aren't talking about what you and I think is right or wrong."

maybe not you, but that's what i've been talking about from the start. i've conceded your knowledge on the matter form the very begining. to promote one particular faith officailly is an assault on individual's belief system if any (in terms of religion). so if what you say is true it's inconsistent with religious freedom.

[romansten9]

@fede2 I'm only supporting the original intent of founders of the United States by researching their words and actions. Thats all any of us can honestly do. Read what they wrote and see what they did. Anything else is less than honest. What I want isn't important. It would be dishonest for me to twist their words simply to fit my desires. I believe that truth matters. The founders didn't want people to be forced to become one denomination/religion. PERIOD.

[fede2]

@romansten9 "The founders didn't want people to be forced to become one denomination/religion. PERIOD."

i know but by granting priviledge to one particualr faith *in anyway* is still contrary to the basic pholosophy of political freedom which is more fundamental in the spirit of the constitution. it's not about wanting to satisfy my whims or desires, it's about consistancy. if the individual ought to be respected by the state then the state cannot show any bias in terms of culture or beliefs.

[romansten9]

@fede2 The founding fathers favored one religion CONSTANTLY. They were the very authors of the 1st Amendment. Please explain to me why they would frequently violate their own Amendment!

The truth is that they didn't write an Amendment that prohibited "favoring"

They wrote an Amendment that said "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

HUGE difference! Now do you understand?

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"The founding fathers favored one religion CONSTANTLY"

I'm not bound by superstitious beliefs of 18th century fallible men. If we go with your Jesus Land/ Founding Father's vision... we are Christian only, make all decisions based on the Bible (talking snake!) , have black slaves again, take away women's right to vote... all in Jesus name!

I mean you keep mentioning old books and the way founder's did things, right?

[romansten9]

@fede2 Court cases have proven exactly what I am explaining to you, that "separation" as we are defining it in modern times, is a myth. We are starting to see cases in which the original intent of the founding fathers is being "re-established" This is the only honest way to approach the 1st Amendment!

If we want a NEW meaning of the 1st Amendment, we need to write a completely new Amendment! We are not allowed to twist the original intent to fit what "we" want. That is dishonest.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

""separation" as we are defining it in modern times, is a myth. We are starting to see cases in which the original intent of the founding fathers is being "re-established" This is the only honest way to approach the 1st Amendment!"

What exactly do you wish? We go "golly gosh, he's right. Founding Fathers went to church! Let's be Christian nation only, outlaw gays, and make every law and decision based on the Bible!"

[romansten9]

@fede2 I support what the 1st Amendment says. Please read it.

My issue is the way it is being twisted to meet what some people want, rather than what the founding fathers clearly said. Their intent is clear, by their words and actions.

The founders never intended for religion to be squashed by the government as we continually see today! They would be outraged at what is happening!

Tearing down crosses from grave sites of military heroes?really? Where does it say to do that? Wow.

[romansten9]

@fede2

I said: "Every time a society forgets God, it suffers. History proves this."

You said: crusades? inquisition? aren't you being selective?

EXACTLY! Thanks for saying this. Don't you see that this is my point exactly? When people forget God, society suffers. The crusades and the inquisition were because of PEOPLE that forgot God! Don't you know that believers in God can be some of the biggest hypocrites? But don't blame GOD for the faults of His followers.

[i3rucei3ruce]

@romansten9 Man, the religious sure like viewing things differently in hindsight. But I suppose that was the trap from the beginning. Every single religious person in the world thinks their view of their imaginary friend is the correct one, and bases this on their biased views of history and its perpetrators.

Fine, let's take for a moment your nonsense as a given. What, then, is an example of society when it doesn't "forget" their imaginary friends?

[romansten9]

@i3rucei3ruce Here is a quick comparison for you:

There are thousands of artifacts that support that what the Bible says is true.

How many artifacts support the people, places and events described in the Book of Mormon? Zero.

And archeology is only one area of science that supports the Bible. And there is evidence beyond scientific disciplines.

Which explains why several genius level former atheists have become Christians. The truth has a way of changing minds. You are wrong.

[i3rucei3ruce]

@romansten9 Eh... Atheists have on average 5-6 more IQ points than theists.

And please, name an artifact that supports the Bible's supernatural claims.

[romansten9]

@i3rucei3ruce You make a point about the IQ level of atheists, but could you post your source of this please? And even if this is correct, I'm not sure what you think 5-6 measly points proves?? You could study any 2 groups in the world and find that they will differ by a few points either way. Having an IQ vary by this amount doesn't mean that the person with the higher number is necessarily "wiser" by any stretch of the imagination! And I never claimed to have proof of supernatural things!

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"There are thousands of artifacts that support that what the Bible says is true."

Like what? Your Christian archeologists find any wreck and say "this is ___ from story of ___"

Not only that, but finding an old thing doesnt mean story is true. I've seen the Temple of Athena. That means the Greek gods are true?

"Bible. And there is evidence beyond scientific disciplines."

Your being vague by not listing...

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Which explains why several genius level former atheists have become Christians. The truth has a way of changing minds. You are wrong."

Such as who? I assume with "several" it's going to be a lot.

You keep making these grand statements about "proof" and "truth" but you never list any example to back up your claims. Why?

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"5. Believe all teachers&media"

As opposed to- "believe all ministers who take a lot of money" or "believe in a book with a talking snake and magical powers"

you Christians do this a lot- you needto "blame" someone so now it's teachers. Your brainwashing money racket of a ministry has done more harm and hold way more sway due to your cultish religion.

[romansten9]

@hipstermi Some ministers are not true people of God, and are simply criminals that impersonate and take peoples money for their own gain. That happens with any title that people trust. But true churches are also the most giving group of people BY FAR and put atheists to shame! How many relief organizations, hospitals, food banks, nursing homes, etc, etc, etc have atheists started?? ZERO? Its hilarious how selfish atheists are, and they want to spread their hatred to others??

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Some ministers are not true people of God"

Oh boy...the canned Christian answers I have heard a million times. He's not "true" but you labeled all teachers the same just because America is not Jesus enough for you.

" churches are also the most giving group of people BY FAR and put atheists to shame! How many relief organizations, hospitals, food banks, nursing homes, etc, etc, etc have atheists started"

It's not an organized group, idiot. Plenty of non believers give.

[romansten9]

@hipstermi I didn't label all teachers the same, and much of what is taught is correct. I'm only warning against the blind trust that people put in teachers. I don't think anyone should put blind trust in anything, especially things of faith. Children should be taught to look at the evidence behind everything. Its out there, no need to believe everything a teacher or pastor says.

Only someone very gullible believes everything they hear. Most trust is earned, like it or not.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

@romansten9

"How many relief organizations, hospitals, food banks, nursing homes, etc, etc, etc have atheists started"

More Christian script like "talking points"

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet- the two largest charitable donations in American history.

George Eastman, Ted Turner, Robert W. Wilson, Andrew Carnegie, Todd Stiefel TO NAME A FEW who have given millions.

Do your own research instead of copying "talking points"

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

As to your claim about Christians to Aethiest giving. Do Note:

"One hundred years after Christ had died, suppose someone had asked a Christian, What hospitals have you built? What asylums have you founded? They would have said, 'None.' Suppose three hundred years after the death of Christ the same questions had been asked the Christian, he would have said, 'None, not one.'

continued...

[romansten9]

@hipstermi You are talking about 2000 years ago in a totally different culture. The Christians of those times were very impressive in their giving, thanks for bringing it up! The people put their money and possessions together to help those in need. They may not have had the same "hospitals" and other "organized" businesses that we have today, but what have you proven by your post?  Just that you don't understand those times and culture? The point is that they gave then and they give now.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"The Christians of those times were very impressive in their giving, thanks for bringing it up! The people put their money and possessions together to help those in need. They"

Cite a source. After your "snakes = lawyers" you need to prove your straw grasping claims.

it's obvious from your "problem" with teachers that you aren't well eduated or if you attended schools you were angry all the time and didnt learn much. Your grasp on history is limited.

[romansten9]

@hipstermi I have absolutely no problem with good education, in fact its a great thing. I'm not gullible enough to believe that teachers never make mistakes or that they weren't taught incorrectly themselves. I even had an anatomy instructor tell me that the atria beat twice as fast as the ventricles. Fortunately, I had already had 20 more years in the medical field than my instructor, and I spotted this completely false information immediately. I don't hate teachers. They're human.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"I'm not gullible enough to believe that teachers never make mistakes or that they weren't taught incorrectly themselves"

You implied all teachers in your statements. You gave an example of a wrong one...but your conservative talking point statement (you do sound a lot like certain talk show hosts) implied ALL. Maybe you should learn to write better if that wasnt your intent.

Your ministers on the other hand...no discourse because "god says..."

[romansten9]

@hipstermi My grasp of history has vastly improved since I started reading old books. Who do you think has a better grasp on history, people alive at the time events happened, or contradictory stories written in the past 50 years or so? Seriously, why don't you ask yourself that question and think about it for a minute.

You are believing things that have been made up in the past few decades.

I believe history from it's very source. You need to start reading OLD books.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Who do you think has a better grasp on history, people alive at the time events happened, or contradictory stories written in the past 50 years or so?"

It depends. We have information now the general public didn't have in WW2 that was classified here and abroad.

Your Bible was not written and edited in Christs alleged lifetime. your "proof" of other authors were either children in his lifetime or not even alive.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"I believe history from it's very source. You need to start reading OLD books. "

Never said I was opposed to old books. But...since you don't know much about history, or even research, there are errors, skewed perspectives, and even agendas. For instance- the first bio of Wyatt Earp was written right after he died, approved by his widow and factually incorrect. Cold war books now know more about Soviet economy (worse than we thought) in the 70s-80s.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

I also asked some very direct questions about your "proof" and about why you thikn there should be no separation. Not only did you not answer, you gave more vague canned Christian talking points I've heard a million times.

[romansten9]

@hipstermi Well, you might have asked me some "very direct questions" but they aren't showing up in my messages, so I guess they aren't very direct, and I guess you didn't reply directly to me, so how direct is that?

How do you expect someone to answer you when they aren't getting messages from youtube?

[romansten9]

@hipstermi My answer to you is that the 1st Amendment is very clear. It says what it says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

When has Congress EVER made such a law? Seriously, think about that. What does it really say? Have you read it? Where does it say "Congress shall limit the free exercise of religion" as they have been doing?

I stand for what the words really say, not for the way people twist them!

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

CONTINUED:

.... "Two hundred years more and the answer would have been the same. And at that time the Christian could have told the questioner that the Mohammedans had built asylums before the Christians. He could also have told him that there had been orphan asylums in China for hundreds and hundreds of years, hospitals in India, and hospitals for the sick at Athens."

Robert Green Ingersoll, "What Infidels Have Done"

Admitting you were wrong would be the mature thing to do now

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"and they want to spread their hatred to others??"

More Christian "talking points" again. Stop following this mindless script or what your Pastor told you to say.

atheists or anyone who doubts your magical stories do not preach hate as an organization or as a result of the beliefs. I'm sure some do hate as you get in any walk of life.

CHRISTIANS hate gays for no logical reason & used openly hate Jews and blacks. Christians fought interracial marriage more than any group.

[romansten9]

The Bible is supported by vast amounts of evidence, anyone that claims otherwise is showing their ignorance. It stands far above any other "faith" book and has proven itself countless times, and has converted many of the most prominent and intelligent atheists.

Do you think that the God that created the whole universe would have trouble making an animal speak?? Wow.

The word "serpent" could also be discriptive.  Even today, people call lawyers "snakes" Don't you know this??

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"The Bible is supported by vast amounts of evidence, anyone that claims"

Such as...? stop being vague, you guys do this a lot.

Can you show me "vast evidence" of MAGICAL POWERS- levitation, sea parting, matter transmutation (water/wine, bread/fish) ? or for a talking snake, demon pigs, and all the other magical beings.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"We know Hebrew and Roman law...show me proof of the claim in the Passion. No Romans or Hebrew law let a criminal like Barabus go for... a popularity contest. We have Pontius Pilatus's records and writings of his biographer...NONE of this is mentione" Pilatus biographer's work survived...no jesus mention. no mention of a FLYING MAN or guy walking through walls. If I was keeping a diary I would mention these incredible tricks.

[hipstermi]

@romansten9

"Do you think that the God that created the whole universe would have trouble making an animal speak?? Wow."

With this "logic" a Hindu can tell you Shiva is real and all their magical beings are since Hindu gods created the world so could make them.

How about ... goblins?

"The word "serpent" could also be discriptive people call lawyers "snakes" Don't you know this??"

Square peg, round hole= LAME excuse on your part.

And Christs magical powers? Those lawyer metaphors as well?

[Epitaph758]

It would be amazing if he meant anything he's said.

[adrianandclare]

I agree with every word.

[matsaw]

Meet your Antichrist!!!!

[TBucker]

I think this is the only time I've listened to Obama and didn't want to vomit. Separation of church and state is the only way this country will ever move forward.

[Jorbz150]

The problem is that some people see and hear things yet deny them.

[braydenbeautiful]

Yes, he is intelligent indeed.

[MrCone223]

RON PAUL

[daviclond]

@MrCone223 what about that nutty old racist?

[MethodD]

No, it transcends the notion of god.

We don't need religious principles, we can make our own.

Life didn't come with a handbook.

[Izoto593]

@Pluckerfamily

You are a stupid fuck.

[truthsucks1957]

Isn't the purpose of the state to protect ALL of it's citizens? I don't think this is a matter of religion, but rather duty or lack thereof. Even if you don't believe life begins at conception, protect the mother from hating herself after the fact by preventing her from committing this deplorable act.

Oh, and:

@lzoto593 only a "stupid fuck" would think that it is okay to murder just because the victim doesn't have anyone to protect him/her--critique yourself, not others.

[arturo656b]

Politicians love to "comprimise" on on ideals like do not lie steal cheat or kill.This leads to increased job growth and government spending especially on prisons.

[hipstermi]

@arturo656b

"Politicians love to "comprimise" on on ideals like do not lie steal cheat or kill"

I can say the same about clergy. ALWAYS asking for money. Tthe...now our special offering...now our offering for this guest..."

not to mention all those wars over religion. including Iraq as President Hick Bush told the French President "Gog and Magog" were over there. All those dead GIs over his magical beliefs. And conservative assholes voted for him.

[justablueeyedguy102]

You Americans are so lucky ,,finaly you have an intelligent and sane leader !!!

[post105]

He Doesn't sound like any of our other Presidents...

[armando101it]

he is too smart to be a religious guy, I think he is an atheist in the closet because of politics.

[ScissorHand26]

That would explain why he was part of such an offensive church. He probably wasn't paying attention, because he thought it was all bullshit, but needed to keep up the appearance :P

[deshongdesigns]

I thought we were a Republic...

"And to the Republic for which it stands"

Not...

"And to the Democratic Majority which it rules!"

No one sent me a memo on the change...lol.

[romansten9]

@deshongdesigns good point. I'm shocked how many people don't know about the republic. But then again, a huge number of Americans don't even know who the Secretary of State is, and some can't even name the vice President!

[j4pan]

he speaks like an atheist although he is muslim one thing we know is that he isn't christian and he will burn in hell for that sin just like everyone like him accept jesus or burn

[notquitegenius]

Obama is not a Muslim. He never was one and he never will be one. Please provide a single piece of evidence even instead of your baseless claims. He has shown much more adherence to the beliefs of Christianity than those of Islam.

[RockingOnPluto]

Yes, it's sad that xians believe in an evil god. Life would be much nicer if xians were not so full of hate.

[milliamp]

Just by the amount of conflicting information in them, pretty much every person in the world can agree that most of the religions that have existed in the world are wrong.

If you believe your religion is correct, then by extension the rest of them are incorrect.

Would you want your personal government to be ruled out of a bible you you believe to be wrong?

[JoshHD7]

so why is obama pro-islam? how come obama has never criticized islam? why won't he appear in a picture with a cross? but when talking in church insists that all signs of christianity be covered? but he has not problem appearing before islamic symbols. he always talks about the american people as if they are a thing separate, something he is not a part thereof.

[MaxwellDangerPowers]

Is Obama pro astrology? how come Obama has never criticised astrology?

I dont think that Obama has never appeared with a cross. He is an avowed Xtian. Is there an event other than the Notre Dame speech you are referring to? Is there a speech analogous to the Notre Dame speech where he has appeared with 'islamic symbols?

[JoshHD7]

yes, he has appeared in numerous, over a dozen, interviews, on islamic tv stations. there he speaks like a muslim. many muslim leaders, including qadhafi have told their people america is led by a muslim. he shows an intimate knowledge of the quran, and support thereof. for example, he will use the phrase, christians believe in christ, and jews believe in the torah, but when it comes to islam, he will say, "islam was revealed."

[JoshHD7]

when obama spoke at georgetown, he insisted that all references to christ in the room be covered. he has appeared at christian universities and colleges, but there are no photographs of him with any symbol of christianity in the background. if there is one such picture, show me.

[JoshHD7]

see:

Obama Demands Georgetown University Cover Christ Symbols Before Speech

baltimorereporter (dot) com/?p=6349

he has a picture where he dresses up as a somali muslim.

see the difference.

he will destroy america before you have a chance to say, "wtf."

[JoshHD7]

he is quite familiar with the old, the new testament, and the quran. as a boy in indonesia, he had to memorize the entire koran. to this date he is able to quote from the koran to his muslim audiences around the world (these interviews do not get played in the us by the main media). he has criticized the old and new testaments. he has never criticized the quran, even though it is a backward bloodthirsty document.

[MaxwellDangerPowers]

How does one 'speak like a muslim'?

Now, given that I am not accepting your premise (ie Obama is a closet muslim), would it matter if he was a muslim? What difference does it make? Perhaps you are not taking issue with his faith (or lack thereof) but rather his percieved honesty on the issue?

Btw, typing 'obama cross' into google gives plenty of images you request.

[channelofnoreturn]

You are an idiot, a liar, illogical, and ignorant.

when you google "obama cross" you only get one picture repeated which is from his alleged church, the united church of christ, which is a follower of "black liberation theology," which says that christ was a black man killed by whites, and eventually, the black man will kill all whites.

you speak like a muslim when you make references to the quran. you behave like a muslim when bow to the king of saudi arabia, as obama did.

[channelofnoreturn]

he has said the most beautiful sound he has ever heard is the sound from the minarets of mosques calling muslims to prayer. this was in a nytimes interview.

he has said in his book that when ill winds blow he will have to side with islam first.

his own sister said he was a muslim till he met michelle, and he converted for her. hmmmm. wonder if he really did.

[channelofnoreturn]

gawd, you are an idiot. you are an example of obama's greatest asset.

your stupidity.

[TheCauseOfWetPanties]

You should go fight some insurgents and get surprised by a roadside bomb on your way to the latrine...lol hahahaha shit everywhere lol.

Puppy kicker.

[nusrathussein]

Pantieboy...did you kick the dog? why did you kick the dog? do you like kicking the dog? how does it feel to kick the dog? is it powerful when your foot touches the dog's skin and the dog cries out?

can you feel it pantie boy? the power of kicking a dog?

pantie boy, why dont you put out a youtube video of you kicking the dog?

speaking about toilets i took 2 dumps today pantie boy. man that is alot of shit that went down the toilet. pantie boy what colour is the dog you kicked?

[nusrathussein]

pantie boy...wassssssssupp. i am farting alot today and my pantie are feeling wet and soggy now. it is sticking to my butt hole pantie boy.

i was thinking of new things to tell you today and started farting so in essence you are thecauseofmywetpanties.

pantie boy have you put up a youtube video of you kicking the dog?

[MaxwellDangerPowers]

Well, those are a lot of words to through out. For starters, I use grammar correctly, I havent made any assertions to be lying about, same goes for the logic and the ignorance. I have only asked questions, which havent, so far, been answered. I have made no claims.

[channelofnoreturn]

"Well, those are a lot of words to through out."

"He is an avowed Xtian."

You is an Idiot and a liar. ha ha. he he.

[MaxwellDangerPowers]

"You is an..." Can you spot the error here?

You are right, I was wrong. I did make the claim that Obama is 'an avowed Xtian'. Are you saying that he doesnt avow to be a Xtian? Do you dispute the accuracy of my claim?

[milliamp]

Please give source

kthxbye

[AnaUsBrasil]

I dont think it would matter if he was a muslim, but as a Christian I am proud to talk about my believes and the miracles of Jesus and how amazing God is.... why can't he do the same? Independent of what he believes, if he really believes, defende it, and be proud of it.

[DWSimmy]

A fair point, but he's in politics. He has to be politically correct. He has to try to appeal to everyone, and not shut anyone out.

[MethodD]

Because this is politics, not religion. You can go to a church to do that.

[ScissorHand26]

I find it interesting that not only do your provide any references for you extraordinary claims, but anyone who disagrees you call an idiot, without actually answering their questions, or trying to prove your point. Insulting someone is no way to win an argument. It just points out that it is you, in fact, who is the idiot.

[ScissorHand26]

You are lying about something that anyone who just watched this video would know. You claim Obama says "islam was revealed" when he alternatively says "christians believe", and "jews believe". However, in this video he lumped them all together. He doesn't really sound like he believes any one of the groups. My guess is that he is either an atheist or a deist, but isn't coming out with it because it would be politically dangerous. It doesn't really matter though.

[JoshHD7]

You are deficient information. He wrote about Islam in his book and said were ill winds to blow, he would stand with islam. qadafi to his own people called him a muslim. in his speech in cairo he subscribed to all the false muslim beliefs about its conflict with the west. when he was asked in saudi arabia why he is visiting there he said "this is where islam was revealed." his own sister said he only coverted 20 years ago so he could marry, but he can't give a date and time of his baptism.

[JoshHD7]

he has criticized the old and new testaments, but never the quran. he has begun an islamification program of the us. while he investigates the cia, he lets conficted muslims out of jail. the list of his pro islam and anit-america acts is a long list. if you read the news you would be aware of it. as you are not but offere an uneducated opinion, i am forced to conclude that you too are an idiot.

[JoshHD7]

in his speech in cairo he said he experienced islam on three continenets. he has said the call to prayer from minaretes is the most beautiful song he ever heard. he memorized the quran in arabic while studiing it in indonesia. he has left muslims believing he is muslim, but left a palusable deniability for non muslim americans. he has said nothing about the honor murders of muslim teenage girls in the us, but has defending a muslimah's right to wear a hijab.

[JoshHD7]

though he proclaims he is a christian, he won't appear in public with a cross, and hid all references to christianity in his speech at georgtown. muslims voted for him because they think he is a muslim, and they are prohibited by the quran from supporting anyone who is not. during an interview with abc he referred to his muslim faith, and has to be remined by stephanoplous that he is a christian. can someone really forget what religion they have? yea, if they are engaged in takiyyaah.

[ScissorHand26]

Again, cite your sources, you haven't backed a single thing up. What makes it worse is the video above, where it is clearly Obama speaking, shows that you are lying. Most of what you say is in stark contrast to what we can see in that video. It sounds like he is either agnostic deist or an atheist. If you want to say he is a closet atheist or at least an agnostic then you have a lot of evidence to go on. However, it sounds like he has as much disdain for Islamic beliefs as Christian.

[ScissorHand26]

You still haven't cited any of your sources. You also refused to respond to my comment pointing out that you lied, and I provided my source (just see the video above these comments, that the source).

Also, a person can't be "deficient information". A person just can't be information, no matter what type of information that you claim them to be. All that was was an add hominem attack. That means that you can't defeat my argument, so you attack me instead.

[JoshHD7]

you are living in never never land. you are worrying about grammar and ignoring facts. and one may say, "you are deficient information." have you ever heard someone ask the owner of a store, "are you open?" of course he is referring to the store and not the person. of course i am referring to your knowledge of the facts and not your physical attributes. really, you are pathetic.

[JoshHD7]

haha. you are 55 and you reason like a 5 year old. just pathetic.

[ScissorHand26]

It was only a small point in my comment that your grammar was wrong. You've responded as if that was my main focus. You still have not given a single reference to where anyone can find information backing you up. All you have done is state your opinion and then insulted anyone who disagreed. Some of your statements are disproved by the video we are commenting underneath. I'm still waiting on you to back up what you've claimed as truth.

[JoshHD7]

i am still waiting for you to grow a brain.

[ScissorHand26]

Why won't you defend your argument with anything other than insults? Are you just trolling this thread to annoy people and provoke a response? If so then you are doing it correctly. However, if you want anyone reading these comments to believe you, then you'll have to back up your claims, as they currently sound rather absurd.

[channelofnoreturn]

when you grow a brain, please feel free to comment. till then, it is better that you shut up, so no one realizes you are an idiot. everything was explained if you knew how to read. duh. you are slow.