"On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed"
Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.
And Jefferson, just one of many regarding his true viewpoint of religion:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
These girls can commit to the lord if they'd like, as long as they commit to shaking that booty as well. And where's the cleavage? That's what people want to see in cheerleaders.
Jefferson:"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Also from Washington:"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."
dont really care either way about the banner but fox news is trying to bs this story by making it seem like all the banners over a twenty yr per were religious then the one on the right says 9 11
On behalf of the public good. If you go to any other country and buck the majority, they will not change 84% just to appeas an 8%. You need to quit reading doctored books that state the founding fathers detested Christianity. Get your fax together . Those are the same books that try and say the nazis didn't kill all the Jews! Why should one person be able to change the whole town just to suit his fancy? They said he didn't even have a kid in that schoole!
The woman who made the inquiry to the School Superintendent, (she did not make a "complaint"), had a son who graduated from LFO and has another child that attend LFO this year.
If they were only inspirational quotes there would be no problem, but this (a quote on one of the banners) "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him" goes beyond that.
All you people saying religious messages in a school sponsored event is not that big of a deal, how would your opinion hold if the banners cited verses from the Koran or the Talmud? Yeah, didn't think so. Stop being so narrow minded and try to realize what the issue really is. It's fine for you to freely express and practice your religion as you wish in your own time but it's a different story when your religious views are imposed on others at a public school event.
agreed. i mean if you want to sit in the stands and have those signs go for it, but when representing a public school it becomes a matter or separation of church and state rather than freedom of speech.
You are aware of course, that there is NO "separation of church and state" to be found ANYWHERE in the Constitution? You are also aware I am sure, that Justice Hugo Black lifted that line from a PRIVATE letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists years after the ratification of said Constitution. I have always had a problem with the Court's ruling based on the private letters of Jefferson, rather than the Constitution of the United States????
Not true! "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." That is text from our 1st Amendment. That is the separation of Church and State that everyone is talking about. That is what makes us a secular society as our founding fathers wanted. It is clearly stated in their writings.
If this was "student lead" then where the hell was the adult supervision?
Why were schoolchildren allowed to promulgate the original malfeasance for so many years?
The woman who pointed out the situation has one child who graduated and one currently enrollled at LFO. She did not make a "complaint," she merely pointed out the situation and in less than 2 hours later the Supt concurred.
The individual's right to free exercise of religion was placed by the 1st Amendment beyond the reach of majorities and officials. The Court's responsibility to protect this constitutional right of individuals against the power of majority rule, whenever the majority, acting through representatives in government, might try to deny that right to unpopular minority groups.
Even as an atheist, I don't see the point in banning the signs. I'm in college right now in a very religious area and often before an event takes place people get together to pray, I just don't pray... they're entitled to do whatever it is they think they need to do in order to succeed. I don't particularly care for it, but it's not really harming me, I'm resolute in my beliefs and non-beliefs and a group of people praying isn't going to change my mind about my religious views. I say get over it
Like freedom of speech, the individual's free exercise of religion is not absolute. The Court has ruled that in some instances religious expression may be limited on behalf of the public good.
The young women have every right to worship and the authorities in this case are not infringing on this right. They are just following the Supreme Courts decisions and therefore the Constitution. There is a reason we have separation of church and state. And all of us can agree that it is good for our nation that we have this. We are a secular society. Image for a moment that we weren't? What a nightmare it would be. Every religion fighting for power. Ok, it's still happening but...
I sure hope this community is fair to the Christians and removes every person at their football games that cus or spit tobacco on the ground as I'm sure that offends people. The news woman sure took enjoyment at the end clarifying how important it is to defend the one person who may sue because they dislike GOD..So this is the new liberal America. I ever wonder what will break the straw on the camels back and people with faith based values are going to start and stand up for their own rights.
F(!) it- go to court- have fundraisers to help pay for court costs!!!! Fight these Liberal-ass scumbags!!! And keep makin' the signs!!! WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK!
F(!) that superintendant! MAKE THE SIGNS!!!! DO AS CHRIST WOULD DO and make the damn signs!!!
If they've been doing it for 20 years then why did the cheerleader on the right say that "we started this tradition on 9/11" which was a little over 8 years ago? We know what she meant by "9/11" and she slipped up. Again, 9/11 being hijacked and used to push someone else's agenda on others. In communities like theirs, people who disagree are afraid to speak their mind or express themselves out of a, well founded, fear of retribution. There message isn't as innocent as it appears or claims to be.
Fox always tries to "spin" the real issue. The issue is simple religious propaganda & political propaganda have no place in a school. The issue is not that the school was afraid it'll get sued. We have a secular society. We need to protect that. If you want your children taught religion then send them to a religious school or teach them it yourself at home.
In the first place, these kids aren't teaching anyone anything, they're freely expressing their religious views, which is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Secondly, ours is not a secular society, but even if it were, that would have nothing to do with free speech and freedom of religion. The only thing the Constitution prohibits is Congress from establishing a national religious faith. It in no way prohibits public school children from making religious statements at public events.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - Text of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. "...no law respecting an establishment of religion..." is all I need to see. I agree with McCollum v. Education. The Supreme Court decided correctly.
I know exactly what the text means. I also know the different interpretations of it. The Supreme Court Case McCollum v. Education is the interpretation that I agree with. It is also the law. That is why our founding fathers created the Supreme Court to protect the Constitution and to make sure that laws passed "fit" into the Constitution. As I said before I agree with the afore mentioned Supreme Court case and believe that I understand the text, probably better than you do. No offense intended.
If you understand the text of the 1st Amendment, then explain how a prohibition placed on the federal congress applies to individual citizens expressing their religious views in public?
Read about the case and the Courts findings. After that I assuming you'll understand my opinion. Obviously you have a different opinion. Now to answer your question, Because school events are paid for from our taxes. So the government. ???? I wouldn't want my taxes to go to a school event where the students there are promoting their love for the devil. Would you? That could also be interpreted as Freedom of Religion. It is a matter of interpretation.
I understand the court's opinion, and it's wrongheaded. To say that because tax dollars are used to fund public schools, those who attend them are necessarily prohibited from exercising their right to free speech and religious expression, is contemptible. Public money is also used to fund roads. Does that mean anyone who drives on them is not allowed to have a religious bumper sticker on their car? The 1st Amendment is part of the Bill Of Rights which guarantees rights. It doesn't prohibit them.
I too, question the logic behind it. First and foremost, there being no seperation of church and state ANYWHERE in the Constitution, I have a hard time with denying the citizenry from whom the taxes are forceably taken the very rights that the Govt is supposed to safeguard.....
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." Do you understand what that means? "...respecting an establishment of religion,...." That is the separation of Church and State that everybody is talking about. It IS in the Constitution.
The "establishment of religion" clause has become interpreted as a de facto "separation of church and state."
Taken to the extreme it has come to mean that "freedom of religion" MAY also encompass "freedom from religion."
I have a hard time when the government denies protection of the rights of the citizenry from zealots prosletyzing in public schools using taxes dollars to promote one narrow religious viewpoint.
"My God is better than your God" is specious to the government.
The interpretation is wrong and as I posted earlier, erroneously ruled by the court from the wrong source. The Founding Fathers were quite clear in their purpose. Not to protect the govt from the church, but to protect the church from the govt. They simply sought to not have a State Church ie the Anglican Church. They NEVER sought to remove relegion from the public or govt forum
Obviously you do not understand the 1st Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." What part of that do you not understand? "...respecting an establishment of religion,..." Is the separation of Church and State that everyone is talking about. If you read the writings of a majority of our founding fathers, you realize exactly what they meant. As the Supreme Court has already done.
NO, the government won't regulate bumper stickers on roads as that is an individual expression not a goverment expression of speech.
But, conversely, the government may not post religious messages on the signboards over highways, that would be a violation of the separation of church and state
The court's ruling is logical and follows precedent.
The LFO cheerleaders are a de facto agent of the government by being a member of a schoolgroup that is authorized and regulated by a public school that receives funding from public tax dollars.
The restriction to absolute free speech also protects members of the cheerleaders who don't believe in a God, that God or any God.
They should be allowed to try out for membership w/o having to be forced to participate in something that may be aganist their religious beliefs. "Go Team" vs. "Go God!"
I believe you are allowed by the Constitution to have freedom of religion in the pursuit of happiness, and your religious asks you to be a witness to Christ. Once again, end of discussion.
Religious propaganda is no different than political propaganda - schools are no place for either because the goal should be to encourage children to think for themselves.
If they want to present positive messages they can do so without citing from the bible or praising politicians.
So many seem to want to corral everyone else into their way of thinking, but that isn't what America is about.
I don't see what is so wrong with providing a place for children to learn that exists outside our propensity for imposing individual beliefs on other individuals.
Children are inundated with conflicting info on which beliefs make them good or bad - often by those with ulterior motives. If they can think for themselves they'll be better able to navigate through all that.
First we don't have real freedom of speech.. You can't say anything you want... second this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has all to do with Separation of school and state.. At a school sponsored event.
last but not least. where the hell have you been when the Patriot Act got passed?
Not banning religious practice ... all though that would be a great idea this is just banning it in public government sponsored events ... we are supposed to separate church and state so learn what you are talking about before you just say shit
Who says we're supposed to separate church and state? Nothing in the Constitution says that. The first amendment simply states that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Allowing children in public schools to voice religious views has nothing whatsoever to do with Congress establishing a religion. You need to forget all the idiotic things you've been brainwashed into believing about the "separation of church and state" and begin using your own mind for a change.
The founding fathers were not christian and viewed christians (and other god fearing people) as people without reason. I don't care if these kids want to hold signs up, but the school chose the wrong route to ban them. The school can enforce rules without invoking the constitution. Most schools do not allow kids to wear clothing with profanity, drug or alcohol endorsements. Courts have always ruled in favor of the schools on these issues.
1. Not nonsense, read your history. It is well documented that the founding fathers viewed christianity with much disdain.
2. Students are allowed freedom of expression if it does not disturb or offend others - which makes this a gray area. And by the way, I don't agree with the schools telling the kids they can't hold up their religious signs. And If another student wants to wear a fuck you t-shirt with a Sarah Palin look-alike getting gangbanged, that's fine by me.
You are so right, that's why James Madison said : "We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that religion, or the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right."
Indeed, the first act of the first continental congress was to call for a prayer to be recited in the chamber, a tradition which is still practiced today.
"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780;)
Right on! What a wonderful quote from a man that used his brain for critical thinking, just like Thomas Paine. It demonstrates the futility of their cause if they cannot even convince themselves of what they believe.
"On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed"
Jefferson
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.
James Madison
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
And Jefferson, just one of many regarding his true viewpoint of religion:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
bartok6969 2 years ago
Someone wanted a James Madison quote:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
— James Madison
bartok6969 2 years ago
These girls can commit to the lord if they'd like, as long as they commit to shaking that booty as well. And where's the cleavage? That's what people want to see in cheerleaders.
bartok6969 2 years ago
I wonder how many of them have made a visit to Planned Parenthood while wearing their LFO cheerleader uniform?
zippyman818 2 years ago
Jefferson:"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
Also from Washington:"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
I wonder why the free exercise clause is always overlooked???
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
i bet i could fit my nuts in the girl on the rights mouth
coopz7777777 2 years ago
dont really care either way about the banner but fox news is trying to bs this story by making it seem like all the banners over a twenty yr per were religious then the one on the right says 9 11
FRANNER2000 2 years ago
Yes, that's Steve Doocey leading the witless!
OBJECTION!
zippyman818 2 years ago
On behalf of the public good. If you go to any other country and buck the majority, they will not change 84% just to appeas an 8%. You need to quit reading doctored books that state the founding fathers detested Christianity. Get your fax together . Those are the same books that try and say the nazis didn't kill all the Jews! Why should one person be able to change the whole town just to suit his fancy? They said he didn't even have a kid in that schoole!
treybrushing 2 years ago
The woman who made the inquiry to the School Superintendent, (she did not make a "complaint"), had a son who graduated from LFO and has another child that attend LFO this year.
zippyman818 2 years ago
If they were only inspirational quotes there would be no problem, but this (a quote on one of the banners) "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him" goes beyond that.
gumby87trk 2 years ago
and those who have a problem with these signs are spoiled brats that should go back to the Soviet Union if they HATE freedom so much.
herbs814 2 years ago
All you people saying religious messages in a school sponsored event is not that big of a deal, how would your opinion hold if the banners cited verses from the Koran or the Talmud? Yeah, didn't think so. Stop being so narrow minded and try to realize what the issue really is. It's fine for you to freely express and practice your religion as you wish in your own time but it's a different story when your religious views are imposed on others at a public school event.
roflsaur1337 2 years ago 3
agreed. i mean if you want to sit in the stands and have those signs go for it, but when representing a public school it becomes a matter or separation of church and state rather than freedom of speech.
gumby87trk 2 years ago 2
You are aware of course, that there is NO "separation of church and state" to be found ANYWHERE in the Constitution? You are also aware I am sure, that Justice Hugo Black lifted that line from a PRIVATE letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists years after the ratification of said Constitution. I have always had a problem with the Court's ruling based on the private letters of Jefferson, rather than the Constitution of the United States????
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
Not true! "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." That is text from our 1st Amendment. That is the separation of Church and State that everyone is talking about. That is what makes us a secular society as our founding fathers wanted. It is clearly stated in their writings.
benbur69 2 years ago
OR THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF....that part always get overlooked. There is NO Seperation of Church and State clause in that document. Nowhere...
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
touche'
gumby87trk 2 years ago
If this was "student lead" then where the hell was the adult supervision?
Why were schoolchildren allowed to promulgate the original malfeasance for so many years?
The woman who pointed out the situation has one child who graduated and one currently enrollled at LFO. She did not make a "complaint," she merely pointed out the situation and in less than 2 hours later the Supt concurred.
zippyman818 2 years ago
Yes, get religion the fuck out of public schools!
brewdog11 2 years ago 3
The individual's right to free exercise of religion was placed by the 1st Amendment beyond the reach of majorities and officials. The Court's responsibility to protect this constitutional right of individuals against the power of majority rule, whenever the majority, acting through representatives in government, might try to deny that right to unpopular minority groups.
zippyman818 2 years ago
Good to see someone who knows their history
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
As was / is separation of church and state.
benbur69 2 years ago
Good point.
Thanks for joining in the discussion.
LFO and those students (and parents) need to study history and not just their Bible.
zippyman818 2 years ago
Yes, because taking God out of public schools has worked out so well for us, obviously..
Public schools are such wonderful, peaceful places these days arent they?
Ughh..
bucs2921 2 years ago
The schools were much safer and more moral and more effective before God was driven out and the spoiled teachers' union brats forced their way in.
herbs814 2 years ago
Dumb as dirt.
VioletClub 2 years ago 2
Hey, where do you think HBO gets their material for "Hookers at the Point?"
(See, this is why they should have their parents with them. I guess you can't take a day off from the textile mill.)
zippyman818 2 years ago
Even as an atheist, I don't see the point in banning the signs. I'm in college right now in a very religious area and often before an event takes place people get together to pray, I just don't pray... they're entitled to do whatever it is they think they need to do in order to succeed. I don't particularly care for it, but it's not really harming me, I'm resolute in my beliefs and non-beliefs and a group of people praying isn't going to change my mind about my religious views. I say get over it
DarkArts124 2 years ago
And now, for the rest of the story!
..."or prohibiting the free excercise thereof..." You must read/include the entire verse. :All you need to see"?
Gimme a break benbur.
chaplaintoo 2 years ago
Like freedom of speech, the individual's free exercise of religion is not absolute. The Court has ruled that in some instances religious expression may be limited on behalf of the public good.
zippyman818 2 years ago
The young women have every right to worship and the authorities in this case are not infringing on this right. They are just following the Supreme Courts decisions and therefore the Constitution. There is a reason we have separation of church and state. And all of us can agree that it is good for our nation that we have this. We are a secular society. Image for a moment that we weren't? What a nightmare it would be. Every religion fighting for power. Ok, it's still happening but...
benbur69 2 years ago
All because one person complained? If that person doesn't like the signs, then just don't f***ing look at them.
GStreetKiller 2 years ago
well i bet if it said "The game is in our hands not that of gods!" you wouldnt have a problem with that getting banned
Talkingdvd 2 years ago
Comment removed
SoundAdvice4u 2 years ago
"I believe like there are no maps in South Africa and we need umm..."
Future beauty paegants.
BUDBASEBALLFAN 2 years ago
Yes it was mean to have children interviewed on national TV without their parents present.
It wasn't a 20-year tradition, only since 2001, stop leading the witless Mr. Doocey!
It's not fair that your religion supercedes mine at an official school function. The mere presence of these banners is coercive and oppressive.
The ACLU and ADF can't wait to weigh in on this one.
The carnage will be of (ahem) biblical proportion!
Steve Doocey is such a satanic trickster!
zippyman818 2 years ago
LOL
thepumpkin1979 2 years ago
What did the disciples do when they were explicitly told NOT to preach anymore about Christ?
You gotta know when it's your RIGHT to rebel. Stand up and FIGHT.
Vaekkrinhart 2 years ago
Brave young girls...Way to go.
Please, God help us
DocMcCrae 2 years ago
I sure hope this community is fair to the Christians and removes every person at their football games that cus or spit tobacco on the ground as I'm sure that offends people. The news woman sure took enjoyment at the end clarifying how important it is to defend the one person who may sue because they dislike GOD..So this is the new liberal America. I ever wonder what will break the straw on the camels back and people with faith based values are going to start and stand up for their own rights.
SaveRepublic 2 years ago
F**k It MAKE THE DAMN Signs, no matter wat they say
vladsmasher 2 years ago
F(!) it- go to court- have fundraisers to help pay for court costs!!!! Fight these Liberal-ass scumbags!!! And keep makin' the signs!!! WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK!
F(!) that superintendant! MAKE THE SIGNS!!!! DO AS CHRIST WOULD DO and make the damn signs!!!
Vaekkrinhart 2 years ago
If they've been doing it for 20 years then why did the cheerleader on the right say that "we started this tradition on 9/11" which was a little over 8 years ago? We know what she meant by "9/11" and she slipped up. Again, 9/11 being hijacked and used to push someone else's agenda on others. In communities like theirs, people who disagree are afraid to speak their mind or express themselves out of a, well founded, fear of retribution. There message isn't as innocent as it appears or claims to be.
Cambodia69 2 years ago
Fox always tries to "spin" the real issue. The issue is simple religious propaganda & political propaganda have no place in a school. The issue is not that the school was afraid it'll get sued. We have a secular society. We need to protect that. If you want your children taught religion then send them to a religious school or teach them it yourself at home.
benbur69 2 years ago
In the first place, these kids aren't teaching anyone anything, they're freely expressing their religious views, which is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Secondly, ours is not a secular society, but even if it were, that would have nothing to do with free speech and freedom of religion. The only thing the Constitution prohibits is Congress from establishing a national religious faith. It in no way prohibits public school children from making religious statements at public events.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - Text of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. "...no law respecting an establishment of religion..." is all I need to see. I agree with McCollum v. Education. The Supreme Court decided correctly.
benbur69 2 years ago
"'...no law respecting an establishment of religion...' is all I need to see."
Unless you want to understand what the text actually means.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
I know exactly what the text means. I also know the different interpretations of it. The Supreme Court Case McCollum v. Education is the interpretation that I agree with. It is also the law. That is why our founding fathers created the Supreme Court to protect the Constitution and to make sure that laws passed "fit" into the Constitution. As I said before I agree with the afore mentioned Supreme Court case and believe that I understand the text, probably better than you do. No offense intended.
benbur69 2 years ago
If you understand the text of the 1st Amendment, then explain how a prohibition placed on the federal congress applies to individual citizens expressing their religious views in public?
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
Read about the case and the Courts findings. After that I assuming you'll understand my opinion. Obviously you have a different opinion. Now to answer your question, Because school events are paid for from our taxes. So the government. ???? I wouldn't want my taxes to go to a school event where the students there are promoting their love for the devil. Would you? That could also be interpreted as Freedom of Religion. It is a matter of interpretation.
benbur69 2 years ago
I understand the court's opinion, and it's wrongheaded. To say that because tax dollars are used to fund public schools, those who attend them are necessarily prohibited from exercising their right to free speech and religious expression, is contemptible. Public money is also used to fund roads. Does that mean anyone who drives on them is not allowed to have a religious bumper sticker on their car? The 1st Amendment is part of the Bill Of Rights which guarantees rights. It doesn't prohibit them.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
I too, question the logic behind it. First and foremost, there being no seperation of church and state ANYWHERE in the Constitution, I have a hard time with denying the citizenry from whom the taxes are forceably taken the very rights that the Govt is supposed to safeguard.....
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." Do you understand what that means? "...respecting an establishment of religion,...." That is the separation of Church and State that everybody is talking about. It IS in the Constitution.
benbur69 2 years ago
or the free exercise therof.........why do you overlook that???
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
The "establishment of religion" clause has become interpreted as a de facto "separation of church and state."
Taken to the extreme it has come to mean that "freedom of religion" MAY also encompass "freedom from religion."
I have a hard time when the government denies protection of the rights of the citizenry from zealots prosletyzing in public schools using taxes dollars to promote one narrow religious viewpoint.
"My God is better than your God" is specious to the government.
zippyman818 2 years ago
The interpretation is wrong and as I posted earlier, erroneously ruled by the court from the wrong source. The Founding Fathers were quite clear in their purpose. Not to protect the govt from the church, but to protect the church from the govt. They simply sought to not have a State Church ie the Anglican Church. They NEVER sought to remove relegion from the public or govt forum
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
Obviously you do not understand the 1st Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." What part of that do you not understand? "...respecting an establishment of religion,..." Is the separation of Church and State that everyone is talking about. If you read the writings of a majority of our founding fathers, you realize exactly what they meant. As the Supreme Court has already done.
benbur69 2 years ago
To answer your question:
NO, the government won't regulate bumper stickers on roads as that is an individual expression not a goverment expression of speech.
But, conversely, the government may not post religious messages on the signboards over highways, that would be a violation of the separation of church and state
The court's ruling is logical and follows precedent.
zippyman818 2 years ago
The LFO cheerleaders are a de facto agent of the government by being a member of a schoolgroup that is authorized and regulated by a public school that receives funding from public tax dollars.
The restriction to absolute free speech also protects members of the cheerleaders who don't believe in a God, that God or any God.
They should be allowed to try out for membership w/o having to be forced to participate in something that may be aganist their religious beliefs. "Go Team" vs. "Go God!"
zippyman818 2 years ago
the one on the right is soo hot.. I wonder how she likes to take it?? my money is doggy
kirichenko87 2 years ago
I believe you are allowed by the Constitution to have freedom of religion in the pursuit of happiness, and your religious asks you to be a witness to Christ. Once again, end of discussion.
Jai666666666 2 years ago
Cant quote a verse from the bible at a public school function, but they sure can praise our Socialist Prez through that goofy song.
Screw public schools.
bucs2921 2 years ago
I wonder if they raise hell with NFL, every time a player crosses himself, thanks God for the opportunity to play or for a TD.
Does it make you feel good to see the Bucs pray before a game? It does me!
Some people just carry things too far.
HYDRASHOQ 2 years ago
Exactly..
This country is 80% Christian, yet we find ourselves constantly having to appease a very small minority of ACLU atheists.
I'm for freedom of expression, no matter WHAT your religion is. If youre not harming anyone, the govt should have no say.
bucs2921 2 years ago
You said it, brother!
HYDRASHOQ 2 years ago
Religious propaganda is no different than political propaganda - schools are no place for either because the goal should be to encourage children to think for themselves.
If they want to present positive messages they can do so without citing from the bible or praising politicians.
cmstyz 2 years ago
its funny you have a great point yet people here dont like it... go figure...
Right on.
Extremefighters 2 years ago
Good point.
Yet look at the religious disliking it because you have a different opinion then you
Go Figure
Keep Going
BacklTrack 2 years ago
Ext and Back:
So many seem to want to corral everyone else into their way of thinking, but that isn't what America is about.
I don't see what is so wrong with providing a place for children to learn that exists outside our propensity for imposing individual beliefs on other individuals.
Children are inundated with conflicting info on which beliefs make them good or bad - often by those with ulterior motives. If they can think for themselves they'll be better able to navigate through all that.
cmstyz 2 years ago
Kids can sing praises to Obama, but they can't give thanks to the god of their choice?
WTF?
dbigboy161 2 years ago 2
Not in public schools they cant.. dont like it? well I guess u hate the constitution.
Extremefighters 2 years ago
I guess it goes to show we don't have the freedom to speak about religion at state-run events.
Glorthac 2 years ago
Free speech is going down the tubes.
RemoSC49 2 years ago 2
First we don't have real freedom of speech.. You can't say anything you want... second this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has all to do with Separation of school and state.. At a school sponsored event.
last but not least. where the hell have you been when the Patriot Act got passed?
Extremefighters 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
RemoSC49 2 years ago
Ban religious practice? OUTRAGEOUS!!
jawtcharlli 2 years ago 2
Not banning religious practice ... all though that would be a great idea this is just banning it in public government sponsored events ... we are supposed to separate church and state so learn what you are talking about before you just say shit
BacklTrack 2 years ago
Who says we're supposed to separate church and state? Nothing in the Constitution says that. The first amendment simply states that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Allowing children in public schools to voice religious views has nothing whatsoever to do with Congress establishing a religion. You need to forget all the idiotic things you've been brainwashed into believing about the "separation of church and state" and begin using your own mind for a change.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
People of reason say it, that's who.
bartok6969 2 years ago
So our founding fathers, whom I happen to agree with on this issue, weren't people of reason?
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
The founding fathers were not christian and viewed christians (and other god fearing people) as people without reason. I don't care if these kids want to hold signs up, but the school chose the wrong route to ban them. The school can enforce rules without invoking the constitution. Most schools do not allow kids to wear clothing with profanity, drug or alcohol endorsements. Courts have always ruled in favor of the schools on these issues.
bartok6969 2 years ago
"The founding fathers were not christian and viewed christians (and other god fearing people) as people without reason."
That is complete nonsense.
"The school can enforce rules without invoking the constitution."
It can't enforce any rules it wishes.
"Courts have always ruled in favor of the schools on these issues."
Now you're just being ridiculous.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago 3
1. Not nonsense, read your history. It is well documented that the founding fathers viewed christianity with much disdain.
2. Students are allowed freedom of expression if it does not disturb or offend others - which makes this a gray area. And by the way, I don't agree with the schools telling the kids they can't hold up their religious signs. And If another student wants to wear a fuck you t-shirt with a Sarah Palin look-alike getting gangbanged, that's fine by me.
bartok6969 2 years ago
You are so right, that's why James Madison said : "We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that religion, or the duty we owe our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right."
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
I think if you read I proved you wrong. Easy to find, it's called research
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
You should learn what you are talking about. The founding fathers used tax money to buy Bibles and hold Christian services in government buildings.
moteintheeye 2 years ago
Indeed, the first act of the first continental congress was to call for a prayer to be recited in the chamber, a tradition which is still practiced today.
DarcPrynce 2 years ago
Good to see someone who knows their history truthfully and accurately
HowardOfOz3565 2 years ago
"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780;)
BacklTrack 2 years ago
It is the atheists that are calling in Civil Power.
moteintheeye 2 years ago
Right on! What a wonderful quote from a man that used his brain for critical thinking, just like Thomas Paine. It demonstrates the futility of their cause if they cannot even convince themselves of what they believe.
bartok6969 2 years ago