Supreme Court Debates Who Wrote Shakespeare

[librarylu]

I've read Ogburn, now I'm reading Anderson. No question in my mind de Vere, possibly with a little help from his friends, is the true author.

I wish the Nightline show (which got me interested in the first place) were still available.

Thanks for posting.

[Davidthe29directors]

Please would you tell me where I can read more about the Shakespeare debate?

[edboswell]

Notice that the attorney says the Earl of Oxford did not care about his reputation because he hung out with "lewd" people.

He hung out with poets, dramatists, and writers. THIS WORKS FOR THE EARL OF OXFORD case, not against it. I'm surprised Stevens didn't pick up on that logical mistake. NONE OF THE ROYALS wrote in their own names. Sir Philip Sydney's poems were posthumous in his name, btw.

[kantro86]

Justice Stevens DID point out, at the end, that this seems to work for the de Vere camp: "sounds like the conduct of a playwright!"...

[edboswell]

the lewd characters de Vere hung out with were actors and writers for the common stage. That is a fatal flaw in the presentation given by the Stratfordian lawyer.

[edboswell]

Notice he says de Vere hung out with "lewd" people? Who were they? ACTORS AND WRITERS FOR THE COMMON STAGE!!!!! I'm surprised Stevens didn't jump on that fatal mistake with both feet. No means or motive for having a pen-name? That flies in the face of the historical record, which was controlled by de Vere's inlaws at the time, and new info. by orthodox scholars reveals more pen-names than previously believed.

[marksixtyone]

This is a waste of time.The Bard wrote it get over yourselves.

[whaddyareckon]

This is a fascinating topic. BillRubenstein's book Truth Will Out proposes another candidate named Sir Henry Neville who's life includes events that coincided with changes in Shakespeare's writings.

[loptkitty]

"Behavior of a playwright" is right! Look at Marlowe with his boozing and spying and intrigue(oh my)! That judge is sharp.

[edboswell]

Kindly note that the "lewd" people Edward de Vere hung out with were playwrights and actors. Also, the life of Shaksper is at odds with the canon of Shake-speare, unto itself an obvious pen-name, as he was not a descendent of the shakes and the spears. Why would a money lender rail against usury, as in the Merchant of Venice? It makes no sense, which is why I am an "Oxfordian"...

[Whoo69]

is it true that shakespeare was illiterate?

[WillShakespeare2007]

No he was not illiterate. He was the son of a very powerful man in Stratford. Even if you believe he did not write the plays he became a very successful business man and bought a huge house in Stratford so he must have been educated and intelligent. There is no record of his education but there is no records from the school he would have attended from this time.

[edboswell]

It's true his parents used a mark, and one daughter was illiterate. His crabbed signatures denote a person whose hand is being guided. Nothing exists in his hand. None of his neighbors or relatives knew of him as a playwright. The two poems attributed to the stratford man, his grave poem, and lowsy lucy, are doggerel at best. He's not the guy.

[zahir13]

No.

[ePhilosopher]

ellen degeneres' brother wrote shakespeare, didn't she fall in love with someone dancing from Jonny Carson from the morning show, or was that as how the world turns contest that never had an endtime supposition on the contest fall in love with someone contract, Socrates?

[marksixtyone]

What some people need to understand is that the Bards talent is not all that unusual. after all Beethoven was a god of music and he came form a humble background.

[edboswell]

What people need to know is you've turned the greatest writer in the world, or at least english, into a "usual" talent. Art and music are different that literature, which requires an education, if one is to write in the manner of "shake-speare". Anyone who coined over 3,000 words into english before a dictionary existed is hardly "not all that unusual".

[edboswell]

Music and Art are different than literature, which requires, in the case of Shakespeare's canon, a VERY good education, and access to books which were as expensive as a new car today. Remember that de Vere's son in law was the dedicatee, along with his brother, who was at one time engaged to another of his daughters. They paid for a very expensive project. Why? Follow the money. It's a fascinating story. It points to de Vere.

[Abuckandabook]

The background and educational argument seems bigoted to me. Saying that an uneducated bumkin' from the country couldn't write great literature is pretty ignorant to me. Countless great writers have come from meager means to be great. Bob Dylan came from Minnesota and so, therefore, I guess he couldn't possibly be a genius?

[avalon19560]

Since when is Bob Dylan a genius ?

[eirefrance]

While that is true in general, part of the argument is that Shakespeare knew a lot of classical allusions and poetic tropes that would only have been learned through an education only available to and sought by a select few individuals. Not proof, but something to consider.

[zeekwolfe]

To speak of the great Edward de Vere...or his work...in the same breath with Bob Dylan is absurd. Dylan is not and never has been a genius. Jack Nicholson says that Fidel Castro is a "genius", but that does not make it so. De Vere, the author of the plays and sonnets, was a true genius.

[lorenkii]

Minnesota consistently has one of the top public education systems in the USA, a very strong university, and is home to the Mayo clinic, so implying that Bob Dylan, assuming from your comment that you think Bob Dylan is a genius, was uneducated because he was from Minnesota displays the kind of ignorance that I believe you are arguing against.

[lorenkii]

Speaking of ignorance and bigotry, Minnesota consistently has one of the top public education system in the USA, a fine university, and is home to the Mayo Clinic. So, someone from Minnesota may not necessarily be intellectually disadvantaged.

[edboswell]

Shakespeare referenced over 150 books when they cost more than a new car today, before a dictionary existed, with rich allusions to the work of OVID, which was translated by de Vere's uncle, Arthur Golding. The first folio was dedicated to de Vere's son in law. Hamlet is so like the life of Hamlet, it's more than coincidental. "Hamlet's book" which he quotes when he insults Polonius, is Cardenas Comforte, which has a dedication to de Ver on the title page. Shall I go on?

[zzRider]

Also remember the roots to a lot of todays music comes from folk and blues artist. The songwriters where from the same low income lifestyle, and yet totaly changed the direction of music.

[edboswell]

Kindly explain why Mark Twain, and Walt Whitman, two exponents of the common man, called B.S. on the Stratford myth? Were they snobs? Shakespeare is the voice of a courtier, an interior view of Elizabeth's inner circle. Only a royal with license from her could parody ruthless royals. De Vere fits the profile in a thousand ways, and if you took the time to study up on de Vere, it would most likely be your opinion as well. CHEERS, it's so fascinating!!!!

[mlkn79]

Justice Stevens at his best.

[lennhart]

Indeed, this reminds one of an early TV series called "You Are There" which, I believe, was the product of CBS. A memorable episode was the "trial" of Joan of Arc. On a similar program, Steve Allen convened a panel which re-enacted historical debates "in character". I would hope that this kind of thing gets wide distribution. It's terrific.

[biblioarchy]

nice! do you have more of this hearing, or know where one can get it? Thanks