Fugue à la gigue (JS Bach)

[TheFeuillesMortes]

Well Played Mr.Ball!

[chamade16]

@TheFeuillesMortes Thank you for posting!

[lulolean]

This is the most musical interpretation I've heard, including others by celebrities, who play with precision and speed but still don't quite capture the dance like you do. Having just learned this piece myself I have an increased appreciation for the careful accents and non-legato you use to invigorate this piece with such life and energy! What you've created is more layers and varieties of rhythmic nuance than most performers think to create. How did you come to this interpretation?

[chamade16]

@lulolean: thank you so much! I play it somewhat more steadily these days, but still like to 'swing it' a little - makes it more like a hunting/riding motif. The interpretation? My own, but inspired by my dear friend (and boss at the time) David Briggs, who recorded the piece for Priory just after the rebuild.

[Dvd123Nsh]

Jiggy, Jiggy, what fun!

[chamade16]

@Dvd123Nsh: thanks David!

[Baddogphil]

Outstanding performance! Thank you for posting this

[IDhuff]

Good tempo, nice register selections. Fun to listen to!!

[chamade16]

@IDhuff - thank you for listening!

[advisorC101]

Still can't get over this interpretation of the work.

[chamade16]

Yes, it is rather OTT! I was young and foolish... ;-) Thanks for commenting.

[advisorC101]

Well... I can tell you if I could play this piece now the whole way through I'd probably do the same thing as you, except in my own time I'd seriously romanitcize it by using full organ!

But learning it is the great pleasure things.

Your welcome.

[cooldit1]

hell, i wouldnt be able to this song. I can play organ for that matter, you did well when you did this song your own way. My steel band actually plays this. It sounds pretty good on steel drum.

[chamade16]

Thank you! This would sound mighty fine on a steel band!

[robertgift]

I like that you would bring it in at the entry of the fugue subject.

Many add at the final chord, or last several(?) chords, which I abhor.

As much as I love and appreciate a 32' reed, it cannot be used anywhere in Bach.

I'll have to try it in the last fugue subject in the pedal of the C minor.

But I believe I tried it in all of the great organworks and it could not be be used anywhere.

I have played organs in Europe.

Did Bach use any 32' reeds in any of his works? 32' flues OK.

[chamade16]

I'm afraid I abhor the "it cannot be used" dogmatism. This is MUSIC we're discussing, not home furnishings or vaccine manufacturing.

C minor fugue? On the right organ I'd have the 32s (both kinds) on throughout the prelude, plus manual tierces and light reeds...or maybe just a solitary 8 foot Principal....

What evidence do you have Bach didn't use any stop on the organs he played, tried or was consulted about?

[robertgift]

I have no evidence that Bach did not use 32' reeds.

To my ear, a 32' reed does not belong in any Bach.

I dislike the salty sound of manual tierces.

They make the organ sound less clear and more old-fashioned.

I like the crystal clear shiny sounds of mixtures without tierces making things less clear.

Years ago, I recorded major works with and without the 2-2/3 in the Principle chorus.

Now cannot remember the result. I may have favored the clarity of no 2-2/3.

[chamade16]

Most mixtures Bach knew had tierces. But I too like the 'clean' plein jeu sound, although strictly speaking such colours were not intended for polyphony. Tierces and reeds actually help the clarity.

We've come a long way since the days of neo-classical organs and understand that middle-German organs were quite different from the straight line, scratchy sounds of the 50s-70s.

[robertgift]

Thanks. I thought Bach's mixtures only occasionally had tierces.

I don't like tierces in mixtures.

I think many younger people and those unfamiliar with organs dislike the "old fashioned" sound created by mixtures containing tierces.

While tuning an organ years ago, in a mixture I wanted to move the 5th speaking pipes out of their holes so they would not sound. Then I'd play some Bach.

Never did it,

I wished each row of pipes of a mixture rank could be independently tuned on.

[ds1868]

I'm not sure why you are placing barriers against the use of a 32' reed in the music of Bach? Besides the fact there were several extant 32' reeds in Bach's time in Germany, I see no reason whatsoever not to use them. Of course it depends on the reed: a soft Posaune would be more effective perhaps than a full-blown 32' Bombarde. Once you errect barriers of thought in music, you no longer can call yourself a musician. Anyway, I am totally sure JSB would have used them anyway!

[chamade16]

Hear hear!!!

[ds1868]

Thanks! I'm so glad you agree!!

[chamade16]

We have the same sense of humour - love your Blackadder and Python clips :-) Emma Kirkby to die for too...

[ds1868]

Yes Blackadder was my favourite, Stephen Fry just the best as Wellington Melchett! Have you played St Ouen by the way? that would be to die for!

[chamade16]

Alas, no. My brother has...git.

[robertgift]

So skillfully played!

Great energetic tempo and much fun.

But why 16' manual stop - from the beginning?

Disappointed with the exaggerated syncopation. Disrupts the flow and is distracting.

Interesting pedal rhythm at 2:14.

Inner voices and subject in tenor could not be heard.

Was hopeful the ornaments at the beginning would continue throughout. Disappointed they were not.

Why was applause so slow! Couldn'tell it was over?

Architect at 1:56?

Thanks, chamade 16'.

[chamade16]

Thanks for watching/commenting. Sadly no space to reply to every point. Please remember it's not an edited recording on a museum organ! It's a live take of first piece in concert. I'd play it differently now but then wanted adrenaline-fuelled hack across the hills. Audience (in Quire) would hear better/balance since this was recorded in Nave. Why not 16' plenum?? No spare fingers to do ornaments save at beginning. You try! I guess audience didn't know whether to clap after every piece or at end

[robertgift]

You did well at answering, 16! Thank you.

In 1974 I memorized 577 for my girlfriend, who disliked organ.

She loved this piece.

Continuing the ornaments throughout is difficult, bit I did it. Requires good finger planning.

16' manual is too muddy and thick and unclear.

(If 16' in manual, 32' should be in pedal.)

In E. Power Biggs recording posted by eeichen, I list all ornaments by time point.

Wish I could play it now. Must practice to get it back in shape. Very difficult.

[chamade16]

Well done memorising!

Gloucester's 16' chorus is anything but muddy. Perhaps it's your speakers, internet connection or this recording. There are 32' mutations playing throughout on the pedals (à la Notre-Dame).

I must do good finger planning next time... ;-)

[robertgift]

Thanks.

But I can't remember how to spell memorize.

By nature of its low pitch, 16' IS less clear. It does not belong in the Gigue.

We have a 10-2/3 pedal stop which creates a 32' resultant. But it also makes things less clear and clean.

There is no where that I can use any of the three 32' (Reed, Principle, Bourdon) in 577.

No 32' reed can be used in Bach. But 32' Principle and 16' reed is great!

577 requires much finger planning to have fingers available when and where needed.

[chamade16]

...or understand irony

IMHO such a doctrinaire approach (what u "should" or "shouldn't" do) is not just inappropriate, but wrong. Do u know the organs Bach played? "No 32' reed can be used in Bach" - check out Trost and Hildebrandt organs

I'm not saying Glos is anything like any of them, but (a) it's what I felt like doing at the time (making it perfectly valid) & (b) the organ in the room has plenty of clarity, the pedal mutations in particular giving tremendous 'bite' as well as gravitas.

[advisorC101]

I agree, there would be no point in having them if they were never used.

An even more powerful 32 reed can be found on the largest Silbermann organ the is housed in Dresden.

Or even the Riepp organs of Ottobeuren Basilika.

Sadly the Hildebrandt organ in St. Wenzel lost its 32ft reed.

[chamade16]

It was put back at the restoration, wasn't it? The boot of the old 32 bottom C is in the wonderful Museum of Musical Instruments at Leipzig University. Well worth a visit.

[advisorC101]

But how on earth did they loose it in the first place?

Yes they did restore it but sadly we will never hear the original stop that was know to Bach.

[chamade16]

Dunno. The sound is well matched to the existing material though (and WHAT a stunning instrument), and there are plenty of other such stops from JSB's time and before.

[advisorC101]

Oh yes that's right! Hildebrandt rebuilt the organ there didn't he?

I just love John Scott Whiteley's recordings on that instrument. I have a unique recordings of it myself.

[advisorC101]

But also, Mr ball, I think that given the circumstances your performance was very impressive.

The last time I heard that kind of prowess from an English organist was a voluntary after a service by my teacher, I think you know which church. He played the 532 Prelude & Fugue in D major, almost instantaneously after he was done with the fugue the first words that came from his mouth was "pig!"

[chamade16]

That's very kind of you, thank you. Can't guess who you are, sadly, so dunno which church you refer to!

[chamade16]

Impressive list! Peter R-C? (whom I don't know)?

[robertgift]

I love 32' reeds in Reger, Franck, others, etc. Unfortunately they do not belong in any Bach organ composition.

Have never played a Bach organwork in which a 32' reed was acceptable. It is just too low and sticks out too much.

But a 32' flue with 16' reed is wonderful.

Next time I play 547, I will try a 32' pedal reed at the 2nd to final entrance of the fugue subject.

But it will likely be inappropriate there, too.

[chamade16]

Well, notwithstanding the fact it wasn't used in this piece (save the final cheeky note), let's just agree to differ. However, I would counsel against adopting any hard line position in music. "Do not belong"? - high pressure reeds, perhaps (tho that depends...); stair-rod strings, certainly; but I urge you to check out the organs Bach actually played or admired. Come to Europe! A good starting point might be Robert Clark at Naumburg - a distant, echoy recording but full of colour, 32s and all.

[chamade16]

PS I prob wouldn't use it in 547 tho I think Clark uses it at end of fugue. I MIGHT (never 'would', sans checking organ, acoustic etc) use one in 'great' C min, B min (final entry), A min (toccata at end), Eb St Anne (final entry); Piece d'Orgue (last section, poss middle too)...non-exhaustive list. Also in big homophonic chorale statements, eg final var of Sei gegrüsset & other partitas; chorale prels, eg 651. Even 686. Remember, Bach demanded "gravitas" & colour, not '60s neo tinklings!

[Principal16]

Haha! Bach with sunglasses!!!!!

[advisorC101]

Bloody fantastic job!

[stefanussen]

What technique! That was great!! 5 stars!!!

[bigposaune]

Fantastic!