Russian soldier surrenders Georgian police presented by Daniel Wicharz

[Yamalishe]

@zdsfgsdhdfrtyfttydfy у тебя ник по-грузински написан?))

[Yamalishe]

Нихера у грузин язык. У Равшана с Джумшутом приятней

[blackshark1984]

He isn't Russian, I'm Russian so I can tell. His uniform is in fact Russian, however his cut-outs are off and there is no emblem which every soldier must have in order to be a part of any sort of battalion. I'd also like to point out he complains that there is no "sauna" in the military, thus bad conditions. Nice trick Georgia, but European Union saw through your trick and so did US.

[JanisUSSR]

Ordinary deserter, but so much gladness to the monkeys from Georgia...

[EmperorofTerra]

Who is the monkey you half mongol cocksucker ??!! We Georgians or you whores, living in ice caves ?!. Your soldiers live in caves, don't know what a fax-machine is, weating boots from WW2, steeling georgian uniforms. Soldiers who were steeling toilet parts from barracks and georgian boots. Who the fuck are you talking to you bitch. Putin ignores the whole eastern part of Russia. People in Sivira still live like in the medieval ages. So shut the fuck up !

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerraSo... they are monkeys leaving in caves and with poor weapons and equipment... and they came over and kicked Georgian army's collective ass in a matter of HOURS...? So what do YOUR words say about the Georgian army?!!! ;-)

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde It took years of preperation, general mobilization of the Russian army and massive artillery and air bombardements to achieve that. Nothing more to say. Powerfull Russian army ( what a joke ! )

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

WHAT took years of planning? Do you forget who STARTED this???!!!

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde STARTED what smartass ? Tell me now. Are you talking about Russian dependend views ? or about truth ?

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

I do not appreciate your language! You can go call your father a "smartass" if he'd have it.

Until you learn how to have a civilized and respectful discussion - I have no interest of talking to you. Of course, I do realize that my expectations about you are most probably hopeless.. Oh, well.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Ok agian for you:

STARTED what ............... ? Tell me now. Are you talking about Russian dependend views ? or about truth ?

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

The attack over Ossetia - I thought it's obvious what we're talking about...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Yeah, tell me fella. Who started this ?

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Well, either Georgia started it, or it was the Russians, who went in on their tanks - and just stumbled over the Georgian army who just happened to be there, shooting... for some wedding, probably?

Nah, the second explanation sound silly to me, so I guess the Georgians started it, after all.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde So how did "the war" actually start

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

What - are you putting me on EXAM? If you have something to say - please, do say it. Otherwise - why waste my time?

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Now, I am interested.. The official EU partly reports claims Georiga started the war. Russia claims Georgia startet the war. You claim Georgia started the war. I just wan't to know how it did start.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

The way I see it, there are 4 general options:

1. The Ossetians started it. To my knowledge, no one has ever claimed this and I don't know of any evidence about it.

2. The Russians started it. This would mean that they provoked the Georgians to bomb Tshinval, etc..May be they made the Ossetians want to separate from Georgia... And the Mishiko thought: "Let me bomb 'em, this'd persuade them to remain loyal"... This seems unbelievably idiotic to me...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Let's get some facts streight: Russia claimed that 2000 civilians were killed. Georgia denied. Russia then after a few months downsized the figure to some 160. Georgia still denies. Georgia claims that it has used mortar and in some cases heavy artillery to bomb enemy basements within the city borders, including governmental institutions. Unfortunatly, some 60 civilians died during the bombardment, according to Georgia. Kokhoiti claims 400 dead including militias.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

When you shoot GRAD at a town/city, this means that you don't care much about the damage anyway!

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Yeah, the great Russian myth of 35 Georgian Grad batteries raising the fully populated town and it's surrounding areas entirely to the ground.

1st. The city was never bombarded by Grad batteries. Single pin point LAR-160 hits destoryed "governmental" buildings. Mortars were used extensively to bombared supposed seperatist hiedouts in the city. A few dozen civilians fell victim to that. Nothing unusual when firing upon a city. The Israelis killed 500 in a single raid.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

1. This, too, is off-topic.

2. That's not what the international investigations found out.

3. That's not what we SAW! ;-)

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde orgasmic irony. We did not saw anything about the claim that a single Georgian Grad targeted anything like a city or village.

Please stio spamming around.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

EU's IIFFMCG report, p. 23: "It is not possible to accept that the shelling of Tskhinvali during much of the night with GRAD multiple rocket launchers (MRLS) and heavy artillery would satisfy the requirements of having been necessary and proportionate in order to defend those villages."

Go tell the EU to stop spamming! ;-)

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Fourth, what happened in Tskhinvali will maintain a secret. Russia has won the fight over the city center against an overwhelmed task force of some 4.000 Georgians. What actually happened during the fightings is unclear. Russia as the victorious can of course claim whatever tale it likes. The only thing we know, is that there was heaviest fighting and there is no doubt that Special Forces of both sides were massively involved.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

1. Off-topic.

2. IMHO, most probably true.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde M ysources are: relatives, eyewithnesses and independent reports. Mass media is for ass.

I got relatives which were involved directly. My uncle as a Commando on the western hillside of Tskhinvali.

Relatives in Gori, friends in Tskhinvali.

Eyes and Ears tell you more than Lips my ffiend.

I denie Russian official claims and all meens aswell as Georgian official claims and efforts.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Eyes and ears tell the most emotional part, but hardly the most reliable info ;-)

That's why I'm constantly referring to international organizations' data, not Russian or Georgian.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde International organisations are trash when using the words "truth" and "facts"

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Ass allready said, mass media is for ass. They know less than a dead person or know more than they want to know. They are all payed. It's about money money, nut truth. If you have somebody like Vanya in the east providing your ass with oil and gas, than the tiny Georgia in the south is worth a shit for you. Money mate.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde They care a shit about how many Russians, Georgians or who ever died.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Undoubtedly.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Dude, if Georgian's had problems wth "South-Ossetians", their pop would never consist of 25% Georgians and Russian-Georgian-Ossetian soldiers would not walk togheter unarmed on patrol with a cigarette, telling funny stories. When a fat ugly Russian backed puppet supported by payed armed mercenaries, threatens you to declare independence and you know that Russia will counter attack in case of a military response, you are fucking pissed off.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Well, I've red about some conflict in 1918-1920... And of earlier ones, too...

Your point that in general people learn to live and get along together is true. This, however,doesn't mean that peoples AND politicians don't have their agendas...

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

3. Someone else provoked the Georgians to attack Ossetia. Well, who? May be - JUST MAY BE - Georgia's new patron? I don't know...

4. Mishiko attacked Ossetia to scare them into submission, to give example of Abkhazians AND probably to attack the attention of the West (expecting a vicious counterattack from Russia) and to promote his pleading for NATO membership...

IMHO, 4-th seems to be most realistic version...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde The facts are: bombarding a city, no matter if there are military installations or not, is a war crime and violation against human rights. Installing military hardware and placing strategic objectives like ammunition depots, bunkers and barracks diretly in the center of a city making it a target, is a violation of human righs and military agreements.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Of course, there's also the long-lasting will of the Ossetians to separate from Georgia.

Haven't the Georgians seen it coming???

And in any case: bombing a peaceful city???!!!

I don't think anyone of the alleged Georgian enemies could've even HOPED, let alone PLANED such a cruel and stupid move!

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde So according to your POV, the Georgians tried to massacre a population consisting of Georgians and Georgian-Ossetians, which were allowed to resettle from Ossetia ( Russia ) down to Shida Kartli Georgia, ( todays known as South-Ossetia ). So, according to you, the Georgians attacked just out of nowhere, with the only aim to kill everyone, Georgians, Jews, Armenians, Ossetians, Greeks, Russians, "bombarded" an entire city and killed thousands of people..

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

I told you my suggestion of why Georgia attacked. You might want to READ what I say, or you might want to INVENT it yourself,... but that'd be useless.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde There is no will. There is a fat guy called Kokhoiti who has the entire enclave under the control of his armed criminal gangs who daily stress the Georgian part of the population. When the GAF started to advance on the city, Ossetian militias started to destroy the appartments of the Georgian population. That is a proven fact. The damage was then used my Russian Television to demonstrate how brutal the Georgian troops behaved in the city. So much to Russian sources.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

And you base this accusations on...?

Because even the Western media that originally lied that Russia has started rocketing Georgia, didn't come up with such accusation as far as I know...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Which accusations ? These are all facts.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

These "facts' somehow didn't influence much the reports of IIFFMCG and HRW (by organizations that could hardly be considered Russia-friendly), which insist that the war was started by Georgia and was unlawful.

I'm not saying that there were no fights and conflicts before - as far as I know, there's been hostilities for ages there...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Georgia made the first massive step to crush Kokhoiti. You can freely see it as a decleration of war against Kokhoiti and his men. You cannot pop up with the civlian aspect, since there were both Ossetians, Georgians, Russians and ethnicities from four other countries, beeing victims of all three war parties.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

This is USA-style nonsense! We come to free you from a tyrant (Miloshevic, Husein), so we'll bomb you in the process, but we have nothing against you!

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Important facts are the increasing hostilities from Ossetian militias since few weeks before the conflict, which were allways followed by a response of Georgian MC troops. Armed Ossetians with obvious support from Russian GRU units commited several IED ambushes and attacks on Georgian patrols in and around "South-Ossetia". Kokhoiti a few days later than threatened Georgia with the advance on Georgian forces and villages in and around South-Ossetia.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

"with obvious support from Russian GRU units" - Now how did you come up with THIS??? :-))

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde How ? Where do you think they got the equipement from ? These rag tag bandits would never have been able to plant IEDs that close to Georgian patrol posts. Not to talk about the fact, that they actually do not posess special equipement of saboutage.It either were GRU's providing of even doing themselves, or the Georgians blowed up their own asses, what I doubt.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

You hardly need GRU equipment for IED!!! ;-) (Please note: "I" in IED means IMPROVISED!!!)

And you hardly need GRU training to bomb a patrol.

However, what you're saying is implying that the bombing of patrol posts is HARD. And still, it was performed by GRU ("monkeys leaving in icecages") against superbly trained patrols? ;-) That's precisely the contriadiction I was talking about.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Ossetian tanks and mortars started to pound Georgian villages. Georgia responded with massive mortar fire and Special Operations on Ossetian militias touting them instantly.. Misha declared a ceasefire and promised dialogue, while moving troops into proper Ossetia and positioning two brigades at the border to Tskhinvali. What we klnow is that Misha's popularity massively decreased in the öast months at that time.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

All this also somehow escaped the Western pro-Georgian media...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde What we also know is that Russia was completly prepared and eager to face a Georgian assault. Russian military buildup in Norhtern Caucasus was more massive than during the invasion of Afghanistan. Amount of artillery, tanks and troops outnumbered the Georgians to allmost 10 -1. The Russian 56th army was ready for combat and allready mobzed and just as expected, entered the Roki tunnel allready on the second day. The 58th sent 10 to 15.000 men into th zone, facing two Georgian brigades.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

And Georgians didn't know that??? Or knew it - but still decided: "Let's go and see what happens"??

The military build up in Turkey in the region neighbouring Bulgaria was and still is enormous, even bigger that it was against Greece during the peak turkey-Greece hostilities. However, they still haven't really attacked or provoked us...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde It was not "Georgia" making these decisions, nor the GAF and it's commanders. Reading post inventions and tales from net and tv mass media, allways considering that most agencies are payed, is a false move to build your entire base of arguments on. It's like running around in a fantasy world, rather than running around in darkness. It is simple. Kremlin has more influence on the judgement of Europe about that conflict and that's the point, where any weight of pro-Russian arguments fail.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

I agree. It's hardly the Georgia people's will, and even hardly the GAF's. However, it'd take too much place to always say "Mishiko and some other nutcases". Unfortunately, MIshiko says, Georgia does (and Georgia suffers).

On the media: where do you get YOUR info? Did you GO there yourself??

And - as we know - the bias of the Western media was TOTALLY on Georgia's side... for as long as it was possible.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Sure, here are some of my sources.

My uncle there is member of the Georgian Special Operatons Main Task Divisions headquerters of the MOD. He as a Commando, was directly involved in all hot spots outside of Tskhinvali, mainly on the surrounding hilltops and villages where he had an excellent view of the happening. Most of the apparments were not even lighty damaged. Russia talked about like the entire city had been whiped out by massraping Georgians.

That's not quite the truth.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

So... The buildings were crushed later??

Because the International Commissions did find the place quite damaged...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde The funny thing is like I allready wrote, that the most damaged appartments appeared to be the ones of the Georgian part of the pop which got hunted out of their homes which later where destroyed by planted bombs of Ossetian militias. That has been even investigated and all appartments were blown off coordinated from inside.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Well, I have no way of knowing this, so I can't argue about it; however, if - as you said - your info comes from your relatives, of course you'd mostly know about the Georgian-in-Ossetia losses ;-)

There are also some international reports about these, but to tell you the truth, I don't have the real motivation to investigate into them...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde American ? It is so funny that you fanatics see it allways from such a unlogical redicilious pov. What is the Russian style then ? They killed thousands of innocent people to prevent a region from breaking up of the RF: So, what are you writing man.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

1. You are calling people "monkeys, living in caves", but I'm the fanatic??? ;-)

2. You were claiming that through bombing peaceful people and alleged compatriots, the Georgian side made a move against Kokhoiti. This is PRECISELY what USA does: Declares a war to a PERSON - and bombs everybody! Russians (and I don't see why they have to be brought in this particular posting) for whatever they did in Chechnya, at least didn't started it as a war against a few people...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde So what did the Russians in Chechnya do then. Let me guess. They killed Chechen Mujahedeens right ? No, they fucking cared a piece of shit about any losses.Thousands no, uncountable people were brutally tortured, killed, looted, murdered, raped. Russian soldiers beeing charged for raping Chechen women and girls were released as heroes. I am not pulling some shit out of my ass fella.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

off-topic

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Russia started the war in Chechnya to eliminate Dudayev. They succeded and they continued, with murdering thousands of innocent people. Fact.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde I am not claiming that Georgian efforts to bring their own truth to light is somewhat better.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Second: Georgia deployed roughly some 4 to 8 RM-70s to take the giant Russian convoy under fire, using cluster ammunition. At that direction many civilians tried to flee the Georgian advance. A few of them were also hit, trying to pass the Russian column. Russia accused Georgia of directly aiming at civilians with cluster ammunition. They did make such accusations allready earlier without providing somewhat close to a proof.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

This has nothing to do with our original argument about the monkeys in caves, Georgian superiority and Russia's per-planning of the war...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde It are filthy monkey in caves payed and feed by Russian officials and military to provoke the Georgian government and Kremlin pretty much mastered to use Mishas emotions. A normal human beeing with less emotions and no kind of drug problems, would have never made such a step, which actuially was pretty welcomed by the Pentagon.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Somehow, when you say "monkey", you immediately stop making any sense. Please, calm down and let's keep the conversation meaningful.

And, by the way, I do see Georgia and Georgians as victims, too, of Mishiko's ambitions and USA's manipulations...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde I just can't stand his ugly face, that's all. Everythime I imagine his payed ugly face, I cannot find any other description. Not constructive, but what the heck does this guy think ? He actually cares a shit about what happened !

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Well, it's hard to argue against this... :-/

And it would've been all funny, if it wasn't that sad...

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde I have to leave for uni now, please let us continue later the evening.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Sure. May be it'd be better to do it as PMs, because it's really hard to track our convo anymore... ;-)

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Why do you manouver away from Chechnya ? It is laughable to call the Georgian move somewhat involving civilians and "crimes" when you look at what Russian Forces and Special Forces did to thousands of innocent people. Will you even try to denie that ? I don't get it. Are you a Russian and have this massive flashing of national pride ?

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

BECAUSE IT'S FURTHER OFF-TOPIC!!!

The issue was how monkeys living in caves turned victorious over well trained and equipped army. You said that it was all planned, and I replied that it couldn't have been, not by the monkeys.

We can talk about WWII, abiogenesis, Ugandan pop-music or women with small breasts, but HERE we started discussing another issue, didn't we?

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Even though Georgia had the constitutional right to do with the armed seperatists whatever they wanted, there never was anyone so dumb to mess with the risk of a Russian intervention .... except the Georgian government and if the Georgian government falls into a trap and suddenly a war breaks out, than of course the GAF and the entire Georgian population will stand aside.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

I'm not that sure about the "anti-constitutional" part, but I'm pretty sure that whenever Misha & co. come up with another stupidity, the Georgians and the Georgian soldiers WILL suffer... After all, there WERE Georgians victims, but Mishiko is well and unharmed...

But that's another story.

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde It is their country.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

Huh???

[EmperorofTerra]

@grozde Third: Russia bombed the city aswell, using aircrafts to target Georgian forces, destroying some tanks. But also artillery and mortar according to Georgian troops. Russia claimed that these attacks were flown by Georgian pilots. That is redicilious, since that claim prevents destroyed Georgian armor to be counted as Russian kills. Georgians did only flew air raid and aid missions on day one, but than cancelled all operations and hided all their Su-25s in bunkers, outside the army bases.

[grozde]

@EmperorofTerra

1. Off-topic.

2. Not as ridiculous, if you come to think of it (although not necessarily true).

[Robbe19]

Damn, just another fake video. The Georgian side simply can not legalize their aggression agains South Ossetia. That guy, "the Russian" is not a Russian. Listen to his accent, how he pronounces the "R". He is Georgian, or if not, a jew, who would do anything for money.

[cortezawwris]

Look at all his guys video. There all silly propaganda and that all they have. Though the one giving medias to Georgian soldiers from the war is pretty sad and scary. Scary in the fact they giving them to soldiers for targeting unarmed farmers and people. Sad because the soldiers retreated so very cowardly when started to fight actually forces.