This debate will not be settled before we know what consciousness is. Free will must have a consciousness behind it. The question is do we control our consciousness or does it control us?...whatever that means!
I am aware of making decisions that affect my actions, I therefore believe that I have free will.
I can only assume that others think like me, and that therefore that they also have free will. Also, the fact that I can't always predict what they will do suggests that they do have free will.
Life is interesting because you can't predict what others will do, and you are therefore are forced to confront new situations, which force you to think and react differently.
There is a great deal of evidence showing the brain is not affected at the quantum level. But even assuming it was, that would mean the foundation of the universe was based on probability and a I don't think anyone would say a dice roll is free will.
@JovialJewels based on the math behind the dice roll (which goes back to the beginning of time) the number the dice lands on has already been set. (this is what i agree with Einstein on)
you guys and your ap physics class.... this guy has been through it all and then some. just because he doesn't take the time to tell you why the electron doesn't determine fate, doesn't mean that it doesn't. just means that you have yet to comprehend why. :) that's a lot of doesn'ts
you guys and your ap physics class.... this guy has been through it all and then some. just because he doesn't take the time to tell you why the electron doesn't determine fate, doesn't mean that it doesn't. just means that you have yet to comprehend why. :)<- that's a lot of doesn'ts
Follow the life of a Die (Dice). Pick up a Die and roll it. Look at the number it has landed on. Now the number that the Die is showing, would of been at the bottom if that Die (when produced) was packaged with the 3 at the top of the packet rather than the 6. Everything that had happened in the life of the Die, up until the moment the Die stabilized on the table, has led it to the very number you are seeing at the top. We call it random, but the whole life of a die is calculable.
The very fact that you are born is no accident, it was predetermined. The decisions you make is no accident, its predetermined by Genetics and Upbringing / Environment. Everything followed its expected path along the laws of physics in order to get to where it is, from Big Bang to YouTube. Just because WE can not calculate where the Electron is or will be, does NOT mean it's position is not predetermined by the complex laws of the Quantum.
Seems like the question of free will belongs more to the realm of philosophy than science. It makes no sense to me that the completely random, natural forces of the universe can somehow affect a person in such a way as to determine that person's "fate" in any way, shape, or form. I don't understand this at all. If someone would explain, I'd be happy to read it.
@Olecranon89 Everything about the brain is natural. It is composed entirely of the same pieces that populate the rest of the universe. Because of this, the brain operates under the same laws of nature. What's then inferred is that if we had a complete understanding of every law of the universe (which we don't), and if we could map out the location and velocity of every electron in a brain (which we can't), then we could tell what that brain was thinking, feeling, etc.
@CFDragon How does that negate free will? What you described sounds like simply reading a person's mind to me. I could understand that science could be used to predict the outcomes of a person's life or actions fairly accurately but that certainly doesn't mean that the person was controlled by destiny or anything like that, it was mere probability. I still don't understand.
@Olecranon89 To try to simply it: if you had perfect information, you could make a perfect prediction. Like you said though, there is in fact plenty enough uncertainty in science which invalidate the applicability of this on our daily lives.
PS. I love how science today caters it's finding to fit it's mold. You have no idea how gravity works... Yet you're already telling me I don't have free will?
WRONG! Sorry Dr. Kaku, but no where in quantum physics is consciousness made apparent. In fact, consciousness is an oddity of the theory. How come you say? Simply because we have NO IDEA where our conscious is inside our bodies, nor do we have a single clue what meterial's or properties it's made of. You can argue the course particles take and say they are determined... But you can't say that about a substance or thing that you know absolutely nothing about.
I'm a lower level determinist. Not like Einstein but more in a realistic sense.
It's a bit difficult to explain for me, but the way I see it is that the neural connections in your brain, for whatever decision you make, could not have gone any other way. Every little thing or phenomena affects your future decisions. Now these phenomena are NOT predetermined, it's basically like a "shit happens" kinda deal. So we do have free will, but in a way that makes our brains look like a program.
I'm a lower level determinist. Not like Einstein but more in a realistic sense.
It's a bit difficult to explain for me, but the way I see it is that the neural connections in your brain, for whatever decision you make, could not have gone any other way. Every little thing or phenomena affects your future decisions. Now these phenomena are NOT predetermined, it's basically like a "shit happens" kinda deal. So we do have free will, but in a way that makes our brains look like a program.
One particle's uncertainty wouldn't amount to free will, but look at the synaptic structure of the brain, and how little we even understand how it works, how consciousness arises, its qualia and so on. If your state of consciousness is a big mosaic of wave functions for all possible signals in the brain, ready to trigger a completely unpredictable state of mind... Such a complex structure could amount to free will in that scale. We still know too little to defend either side too much, though.
If even the smartest scientist in the world cannot tell me how the most basic, tiniest, simple cell was created or came to be. How could you ever convince me to believe in a "theory" such as the big bang or evolution? In other words... if you can't explain the smallest and simplest of all things... how does ANYONE put all their belief in a made up theory that is so complex? Man's mortal attempts to deny Creation is pretty sad. Psalm 14:1
All uncertainty is predetermined. We are uncertain as to what the Dice will roll, but we are certain its going to be between 1 and 6. The very fact that a Dice has a "1 to 6" is predetermined. They way you pick the Dice up, the way you shake the Dice, the way you roll it..even down to the friction of the table, all equate to the predetermined side/number of which the Dice will land. Randomization is governed by a complex set of rules and therefore predetermined.
Of course, in this chaotic universe there randomness all over the place. And while humans are free to do what they please, there are thousands of factors that are out of their hands. People'd like to believe they have control of their lives and that it depend entirely on them, but that's not the case. One does have free will, but life is hazardous, so even with free will people can't control their own destiny. It depends much on luck, causality...
if u can have stimulations.....and then u have reactions then i would think that u could somewhat control ur on......future to an extent because when u have reactions if u can control and learn them.....and call them when u want.....perhaps that is free will?
@VoltismProductions I think he's saying that you can't predict the future of what someone will do because of the randomness. And he's equating that to having free will which I don't think makes sense...but he's the theoretical physicist not me
He never addressed how uncertainty gives us free will. The entire point was that without free will our actions would be purely determined by the information available to us. Kaku never provides a logical connection between uncertainty and how this uncertainty gives us "more" than just actions determined by our information.
But, I put together a motor knowing that it would run and would break down at some point. It did and I fixed it. I did not know exactly where the oil was going or what it was doing but I knew it was ok while it was running. I fixed it after it broke and will fix again when It breaks the next time. Its should not matter where the partical is at one specific moment in time as long as it is in a respectiable place.
I once watched a video in which Sam Harris actually presented an analogy for determinism and the uncertainty principle. He claimed that if a mad scientist were to create a device which controlled our emotions, actions, etc. at will and specifically, would we really have more free will if the device were to control these things randomly? It's a defense of determinism, which I don't necessarily concur with, but a thought-provoking one at least.
It would really suck if someday we find out that free will isn't real. But if you forget about it (hopefully the universe has programmed you to) it won't matter.
@hyperbolaisagraph I am so glad I am not the only person who realizes this. That probably sounds narcissistic but everyone I have talked to about free will claims that because there is uncertainty we have free will
And that's merely one way of dealing with determinism. There are other arguments, some of which are scientific (mechanical, psychological, etc.), but the majority are philosophical. Once determinism has been rejected, free will essentially becomes a non-issue.
@joshuaadamcox it IS a very good one.. we were debating about this a lot with my friends a while ago.. and we came to this conclusion too! ..yes we do this while drinking beer!
Sorry, Michio. Randomness is not free will. It's randomness. All you've done is disprove determinism. Assuming that that proves free will exists is the fallacy of false dichotomy.
@gguilford72 I don't know what the big fuss is. The existence of free will clearly seems like a no-brainer to me. I think free will follows from the fact that self-awareness exists, separating those with free will from those driven by "programming" / instinct and environment.
Impractical to measure and unfeasible to compute does not add up to "free will." You are still a machine whose specific construction you don't directly control that utilizes laws of nature you don't control.
How does not knowing where the electron is affect the outcome of biological reactions? Also, just because we cannot tell where an electron is, or sort out some of the craziness of quantum mechanics, that doesn't mean that we aren't still bound by their laws. Randomness doesn't rid the fact that we're still be controlled by it.
@HaasArrest This idea gets a lot of play in the science fiction novel "Dune". A guild of star navigators who navigate by prescience so clear as to chart a 'folding' of space. Maybe one day "Consciousness" will devise a method of foreseeing even random events. Maybe "Consciousness" was a random event in the universe that just happened by accident on earth. Maybe "Consciousness" decided that being is better than not being. Maybe its out to control randomness, at least locally. No Novacrematorium.
@HaasArrest Yes, I'm still trying to figure this out myself. Even if it's true that we can never accurately measure/know where an electron happens to be at any given moment, does it necessarily mean that it isn't still *there*? Why does the indeterminacy remove determinism?
@HaasArrest yes, physical processes are part of the puzzle, but they are not solely responsible for choices and decisions. The biological processes may not be free, but humans are free because in the realm sociological and psychological stratification, we can manipulate ideas and turn thoughts into action, hence changing our minds.
@HaasArrest your heart may be determined to pump blood and make you nervous or afraid, but it may be the thought that caused the fear in the first place. over a space-time interval, your thoughts are suspended, and this in turn affects the state of your body.
@HaasArrest Controlled, how so? The simple premise of 'Random Control' is very un-scientific... Oh science, if only the old alchemist's and philosopher's of yor could see what single lane and narrow road our wise men now take...
@AxionXIII Controlled because when you really break down thought processes you'll end up with basically chemical reactions (and physics) that are taking place. We really can't control these reactions, they will happen if the conditions are favorable. These reactions are influenced through different means, such as anti-depression medications and other drugs, or stimuli based on your senses (sight, hearing, smell etc). Its a very simplified way of looking at it but that doesnt make it incorrect.
@HaasArrest A random electron affects the outcome of biological reactions because the human brain is like a computer (albiet massively more powerful). We use bio-electricity to think, electricity is of course a wave moving through electrons so if a electron randomlly pops into existence in our brain it alters our thinking, (think having a tube of marbles and pushing a new marble in). And altering what we think changes what we do.
@NXTG3N3 Ah I get what your saying, an electrical pulse may take a slightly different path to its destination based on the location of the electrons that the pulse is traveling through (which will alter the pulse slightly). Thanks for clearing that up.
@HaasArrest Electrons effect biological operations in the body. That's known. And should be obvious. That slight randomness can influence events billions of years ahead. That said, just because you can predict someone is going to do a certain action, doesn't mean they didn't use their free will to do it.
Yeah, I do like these videos but I always thought that human interaction which is affected beyond the collapse of the wave function is essentially conducted based on Newtonian determinism. Yes, there's always the possiblity that quantum chaos might affect a human mind and thus their decision but even that is out of our control.
@FinalFanatic1986 What if quantum chaos is actually what is necessary to generate alternate realities? If all Universes were governed solely by newtonian laws every Universe with the same beginning would run the same way. To have a man go left where he would have turned right surely requires quantum chaos? So what if apparent chaos is actually the underpinned and yet determined order of the Universe, one Universe's quantum signature, quantum timeline which determines the events.
@FinalFanatic1986 It would appear very much to be chaos unless you could walk between universes and view entire histories of the quantum world, but that doesn't mean it is actually chaos, it is merely order in the guise of apparent chaos necessary to generate infinite quantum realities from a singular base template universe or control universe. Surely that is at the very least possible?
@FinalFanatic1986 From a singular beginning, infinite diversity. I don't think chaos can even exist, I mean in quantum mechanics isn't time an illusion? All events exist simultaneously and are occurring now and always. So doesn't that mean that the future is as fixed as the past? Therefore surely chaos cannot exist and it must be something else, perhaps the necessary ingredient for infinite diversity from a single base template.
Why bicker, even true determinists believe that even though we have no free will (if you believe that) that we need to act like we do or else nothing would ever get done.
@mikeymikemikey1 And you have good reason to believe that; it's a sound arguement. But I think the key thing to remember is that neither Free Will or Determinism are laws, just theories, and neither will ever be fully proven OR discredited. Even if you knew every variable, that 'wild card' is their, but does that PROVE free will with no doubt? No.
Feel what you don't know. It's sort of like how we can't prove the world around us is real since we have no other source but our flawed senses. :)
@EmceeProphIt the world real or fact pertains to knowledge as we have it. That is to us as humans not in the literal sense. I.e a lie, if someone lies to you and you dont know any better than it is true but only to you. But to be more specific the lie is not true because above your conciousness there is reality, you just arent aware of it in the moment because you lack that knowledge. It isnt a question of real or unreal but how we perceive it, the two can be mutually exclusive.
@sr1129 Of course, but a rational philosopher has to concede at some point there are things we need to assume are true, otherwise life comes to an end. We can ponder all we want, but the healthy among us still talk with friends, read, play sports, play games, write, create, make love and observe nature because at the end, we concede that we are limited to our perception. But that doesn't have to render life a 'lie'. Philosophy, to many, is simply a pursuit of happiness and fulfillment.
@sr1129 I hate the comment limit length, anyway...
Think of it like this: Love is a series of chemical reactions, does that make it any less meaningful or pleasurable to us? No, not to me anyway. We lack certainty, and we always will, so we basically have to function with that in mind. Our world is what we make it, what we perceive. There is no absolute perfect perception of the world to obtain, it's just a matter of trying to answer as much as we can, if anything. And trying to be happy.
Essentially, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle proves Ivan Karamazov (Dostoevsky's character in Brothers Karamazov) right. Ivan says, "If there is no God, everything is permissible." Heisenberg proves free will and no God of Fate so we might as well steal and murder and do whatever the fuck we want to do. Like Nietzsche telling Freud to leave his family and quit his job. I did it. I live in Belize, fuck whores and drink tequila all day. I feel no remorse.
@JayGatsbyOdysseus Is free will that important , whether its free will or a predetermined outcome? I would say no...If by chance things are pre-determined will it change anything? No it won't... The only reason this is in discussion is for nerds to discuss...
"Determinism" disregards the existance of CHAOS: An essential part of reality. The physical world is in constant flex and change. Gradual change indeed, but unpredicable change. This is the basis of Freedom, Creativity and Evolution itself !
This is where quantum mysticism encroaches on my atheism and separates me from those who base their atheism on snark. Those people were never really trying to discover the truth to begin with, they just want another excuse to be an asshole and troll religious folk. Keep an open mind atheists, quantum 'mysticism' is not a dishonest scheme like the intelligent design 'debate' (as if there were anything to really debate). thanks.
Dr. Kaku is eluding himself. It is true that quantum mechanics says you cannot prove the future, therefore, Einstein was wrong and there is no determinism.
But concluding from this that you have free will is saying that YOU control where the electron goes. This reasoning can make dr. kaku feel good but is just plain idiot, "god will save me from me enemies" style.
@ajosemr Good point. Chaos is just as much out of our hands as perfect order is. Whether one or the other is what truly rules the universe, it makes no difference regarding freewill, which is a metaphysical (and thus very abstract) concept.
What if all future events are already determined? We might not currently or ever have the means of determining what will happen, which could mean that there is a "map" for the future. The Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment:
Imagine you have a set of cards, shuffled by a machine. You guess the top card, cut the deck, and observe the top card. In theory, wound't it not matter if you had or hadn't cut the cards since we have no way of knowing what the outcome would be if we didn't cut the deck?
Perhaps reading the "Drunkards Walk" would open his mind a little about randomness and what it is. It can be argued that uncertainty is nothing more than a incomplete understanding of events. We don't know all the mechanisms and there for it has elements of randomness to us. Far as I can tell nothing is settled within the debate of "free will." The phrase "Free Will" is as elusive as god and I think is just a place hold for the word "soul."
i feel like we probably wont know if we have free will or not. if we had it, or don't have it, we'd see it as the exact same, i think. if we dont have free will, then everything we do, even if we conclude that we have free will, would be determined already and we were "meant" to conclude that in the first place... i dont think we can really tell. i say we all just chill the fuck out and do what we "want" to do
A lot is being presupposed here. The whole idea that indeterminism is required for free will is controversial. Indeed most contemporary philosophers dispute this. Furthermore indeterminism isn’t sufficient for free will if it even plays a role at all! What needs to get clarified is what we mean by “free will”. But more importantly, it’s hard to see how indeterminism could be any more compatible with free will than determinism can! Indeterminism seems to get us nothing but sheer randomness!
Physics isn’t going to settle this dispute. No doubt physics plays a role and perhaps is even necessary, but it isn’t by any means going to be enough to settle the dispute. It's a conceptual issue, not an empirical one...
First of all, it hasn't yet been settled whether indeterminism is true. But more importantly, it's just being assumed that indeterminism is required for there to be free will. This however is very controversial. Indeed it's hard to see how mere randomness could amount to something being "free".
@soultorment27 because the randomness allows for potential to make decisions. indeterminism opens doors to many possibilites that can be molded by experience. i think this whole thing ties in to the double-slit experiment and the observer effecting the nature or things. sorry if i confused you. just my theory ha
A tangential point: regarding the mirror reflection and us seeing ourselves a fraction of a second in the past, Daniel Dennett i think pointed out that since all processing in the brain takes time, we never actually experience the real-world present...
when i look in the mirror, i just see a mirror. i'm not there. it's just a mirror. i mean there is an image that is similar looking, but my conscience would never say that thats ME in the mirror. i can't be inside something that just refracts light? idk.
If the universe were only comprised of matter, then, yes, the universe would be completely predictable and totally predetermined. When you include consciousness, things become infinitely more complex. Consciousness drives evolution, but, it also drives all life and motivates all creativity. The fact that creativity is a main feature of consciousness really kind of precludes it from anything "predictable" or "predetermined". Now as our understanding increases, we might find out differently.
God doesn't play dice! We do. The electron could be here or there! But that factor is base on each individuals experience and vibrations! We create the here and there possibility, both to ourselves and influencing others and all surrounding! God it's so easy, doesn't anyone get quantum physics ;P
But what is the actual causal connection between the indeterminate nature of subatomic particles and the indeterminate nature of human decision-making?
@DaneEVA For those who don't understand the uncertainty and free will connection. What he was saying whas that if there is no randomness in the universe, we can predict everything everybody does. So therefor nobody has free will. But if there is uncertainty and randomness in electrons and people's brains. Than we can not predict what they will do so in some sense they have free will.
@00the00virus00 Hang on, I still don't understand. Why does humanity's ability to predict the electrons location have to do with them being predetermined? Is there nothing causing their location?
@Lucanio Ok, lets put this another way, So if physics works that way we can predict every thing, than we can calculate what happens in every system there is. Humans are a system, and physics applies to them. So if there is no randomness, we can calculate everything they do, nothing will be unpredictable, they way they move can be explained by the way the electrons move in the brain like a computer, it just means the brain is a biological computer and we can predict everything humans do.
@Lucanio Part 2. Now if there is uncertanty like in quantum mechanics there will always be things that can not be predicted, like the positions of electrons, we can not say calculate what happens only the probability of it. Now you take a human, it's a system governed by quantum physics, but now you can not predict it's doing, because the matter/waves behaves randomly, so everything in the system is random, you can not predict what the human does, so it has to have free will.
@00the00virus00 I think @Lucanio is talking about the human's /ability/ to predict electrons. Just because we don't have the ability to predict them now doesn't mean that they aren't predictable - it just means we haven't found out how or have the capacity to do so. Electron position may still be fully subject to physics and may not be "random" at all.
@pixelsage Yes we don't really know yet if electrons appear randomly, but modern physics is built on it, we have much to learn maybe we just don't understand how orbitals and waves work.
He really doesn't get determinism. FREE will doesn't exit because there is no such thing as anything supernatural - there are no souls. Our will is determined by things like biology, society, upbringing - things we don't control therefore our will is not free. And he consciously misinterprets Einstein.
@LeonidasSthlm The universe is predetermined.Consciousness cannot be predetermined because of potentialiality, probability and nearly infinite possibilities of any action at any time. WEll, the universe and consciousness operate as one, but, within the other. If that makes any sense.So as far as a universe without consciousness is concerned, it is totally predetermined.But, since consciousness is involved, there is uncertainty due to the interaction between the quantum realm and consciousness.
Free will, at least in a religious context, is reserved only for human beings. In a scientific context, it applied to all particles of matter. Under Dr. Kaku's definition, trees and rocks can have free will just the same. To me, calling the random and unpredictable movements of electrons "free will" is a stretch, because although it may not be a predetermined future, there is virtually nothing that we can actually choose for ourselves at this subatomic level. I see no evidence for or against.
Just because you can't see the future doesn't mean you have free will. The choice you make is still the choice you always were going to make. There is no alternative because you only exist on one timeline. Even if there is another timeline, then that technically isn't you. I was always going to have typed this just as anyone who responds was always going to and anyone who doesn't was always going to; regardless of how many times you change your mind, it doesn't change the outcome.
If you want to know the Scientific stance on Free will, Neuroscience is the place to go. Neuroscience deals with the brain, and consciousness. It depends on how you define yourself. Neuroscientific research suggests that your actions and decisions are being made unconsciously by your brain, and "making the decision yourself" is you being aware of your brain's decision. If you define yourself to be seperate to the sum of your parts (your physical body) then there is no free will.
Simpsons comic book from way back had Prof. Frink say "In fact God DOES play dice with the universe; in fact, it appears to be some highly complex form of Yahtzee". Thought I'd share something funny.
The fact that our mind can figure out different options and choose among them, that's what philosophically and practically is the free will
People dont understand that the same arguments u can use to deny the existence of free will aply for denying the existence of this universe in each of its aspects
Humans beings create ideas such as the uncertainty principle because it is simply outside of human knowledge to be able to observe the complex motion of sub-atomic particles. However, if humans were to have the power to calculate the effects of every single factor involved in the movement of an electron, we would realize that all events in the universe (even supposedly random events), are predictable within physical universal laws. Humans label what they don't know or understand as "free will."
Saying the molecule movements and interactions in our bodies that lead to our thoughts and actions are random instead of predetermined isn't a case for freewill. Whether matter behaves deterministic or indeterministic, we're still subjugated by the actions of matter on a subatomic level. Anything else would imply our minds transcend the material world, when they are a product of it.
There's more than meet the eyes in MK's speech. Einstein was correct in saying predetermined actions based on the past actions: Karma. Karma has no beginning and no end. The cause and effect can delay to manifest to uncertain time...no one can tell. Perhaps some fortune tellers could. One can alter their bad Karma by changing their behaviors toward loving kindness and compassion so their bad karma can be negated.
@roadkill1001 You think that simple? How to skip a step? Karma makes us exist. It's a natural law like in science: cause and effect. When you end the cause, then you can skip Karma. But that's almost impossible. When you and I are here typing these words,
karma is working behind us. Perhaps for this simple example :I will not answer you: the karma will cease.
@Trodua Karma is not cause and effect. Karma is the pseudo interpretation of the butterfly effect that states it is an entity activly measuring the good and the bad, almost as if karma is a deity in it's self.
@roadkill1001 Science calls it "cause and effect" . Karma is natural law that science discovers and interprets it into mathematics, physics...etc.
Karma is more on spiritual idiology than science. What's in the name: it's just form of labeling. Karma is a Law of Nature. It is the law. For it is everywhere and always — omnipresent, all-pervasive. The West philosopher calls it the Law of Causation.
Philosophy of impermanence. The Cross horizontal line represents our existing world dimension which is always trapped in the past or your future. Between these two periods of time, there is one vertical line crossing over this past and future. Jesus was aligned on this line at his crucifixion.
The vertical line is the NOW, free from space and time. It's neither past nor future. It's Deathless. It's in another dimension - spiritual world.
Einstein was not above admitting when he was wrong: "When Edwin Hubble showed proof that the universe was expanding, for example, Einstein admitted he was wrong."
Particle data may not be determinable, but that doesn't mean the particle is in multiple places at once. Considering the limits on our perception of these things it's much more likely that when a particle looks to physicists like it occupies multiple points, it is in fact just going real fuckin fast (which we already know they do). This guy is asking you to believe that things must simultaneously exist in multiple locations & the leap between that assumption and free will is still one of faith.
@BenjaminTLaing I think the video is too short where he doesnt explain it very well. Quantum computers already rely on the principle that an electron can be in multiple places at once and although they are not fully functional they have some amount of functionality.
The quantum computer is based upon the two split experiment which only leads to the conclusion that unmeasured electrons can occupy more than one point in space
@roadkill1001 If they're computing probability it means that they admit to not knowing the parameters with precision. We know there is uncertainty in the measurements because we recognize our inabilities, but uncertainty of prediction and non-determinism are different things. That is to say, just because it looks to us that an electron passes through two slits at once, doesn't mean it does. And the freewill implies that we harness this ambiguity for our decision making- this is wish thinking.
@BenjaminTLaing When the electron is not measured, it still produces a wave like pattern, which is only formed when the electron passes through both slits at the same time. This is done with a single electron when it is not measured with any kind of detector.
This could indeed be due to our limitations of measurement, however at the same time there is a significant change in how the electron behaves when it is measured and when it is not.
@roadkill1001 Which is why you cannot measure it. Thanks for proving my first point.
As to my second, I'll elaborate. Even if we assume that particles can have more than one position at a given time, which is a pretty big concession I'm giving for sake of argument, freewillies still have to believe that this phenomena can enable you to cheat your 'fate'. Notice you cant even define free-will without some reference to determinism. Try it.
This debate will not be settled before we know what consciousness is. Free will must have a consciousness behind it. The question is do we control our consciousness or does it control us?...whatever that means!
Mikhael37 13 hours ago
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Mikhael37 13 hours ago
i agree with Einstein
erikalst 23 hours ago
@erikalst
I am aware of making decisions that affect my actions, I therefore believe that I have free will.
I can only assume that others think like me, and that therefore that they also have free will. Also, the fact that I can't always predict what they will do suggests that they do have free will.
Life is interesting because you can't predict what others will do, and you are therefore are forced to confront new situations, which force you to think and react differently.
nni9310 2 hours ago
Free will arises from the knowledge of determination. Our knowledge is our freedom.
Maecenas23 1 day ago
There is a great deal of evidence showing the brain is not affected at the quantum level. But even assuming it was, that would mean the foundation of the universe was based on probability and a I don't think anyone would say a dice roll is free will.
JovialJewels 1 day ago
@JovialJewels based on the math behind the dice roll (which goes back to the beginning of time) the number the dice lands on has already been set. (this is what i agree with Einstein on)
erikalst 55 minutes ago
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you guys and your ap physics class.... this guy has been through it all and then some. just because he doesn't take the time to tell you why the electron doesn't determine fate, doesn't mean that it doesn't. just means that you have yet to comprehend why. :) that's a lot of doesn'ts
Mad0racle 2 days ago
you guys and your ap physics class.... this guy has been through it all and then some. just because he doesn't take the time to tell you why the electron doesn't determine fate, doesn't mean that it doesn't. just means that you have yet to comprehend why. :)<- that's a lot of doesn'ts
Mad0racle 2 days ago
he used the random electron scenario to explain why our future is randmised .. not very adequate.
nikolait92gmailcom 3 days ago
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These things are written thousands of years ago ...and really identical to buddhas teachings.
He done it all by sitting under a tree.... Science proving it now.... !
sinan134 3 days ago
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sinan134 3 days ago
Calculus ignorance = free will.
Alternativeknow 4 days ago
Follow the life of a Die (Dice). Pick up a Die and roll it. Look at the number it has landed on. Now the number that the Die is showing, would of been at the bottom if that Die (when produced) was packaged with the 3 at the top of the packet rather than the 6. Everything that had happened in the life of the Die, up until the moment the Die stabilized on the table, has led it to the very number you are seeing at the top. We call it random, but the whole life of a die is calculable.
Alternativeknow 4 days ago
The very fact that you are born is no accident, it was predetermined. The decisions you make is no accident, its predetermined by Genetics and Upbringing / Environment. Everything followed its expected path along the laws of physics in order to get to where it is, from Big Bang to YouTube. Just because WE can not calculate where the Electron is or will be, does NOT mean it's position is not predetermined by the complex laws of the Quantum.
Alternativeknow 4 days ago
Randomness is illogical.
josephplocher 5 days ago
BS
100chao 5 days ago
Seems like the question of free will belongs more to the realm of philosophy than science. It makes no sense to me that the completely random, natural forces of the universe can somehow affect a person in such a way as to determine that person's "fate" in any way, shape, or form. I don't understand this at all. If someone would explain, I'd be happy to read it.
Olecranon89 6 days ago
@Olecranon89 Everything about the brain is natural. It is composed entirely of the same pieces that populate the rest of the universe. Because of this, the brain operates under the same laws of nature. What's then inferred is that if we had a complete understanding of every law of the universe (which we don't), and if we could map out the location and velocity of every electron in a brain (which we can't), then we could tell what that brain was thinking, feeling, etc.
CFDragon 5 days ago
@CFDragon How does that negate free will? What you described sounds like simply reading a person's mind to me. I could understand that science could be used to predict the outcomes of a person's life or actions fairly accurately but that certainly doesn't mean that the person was controlled by destiny or anything like that, it was mere probability. I still don't understand.
Olecranon89 5 days ago
@Olecranon89 To try to simply it: if you had perfect information, you could make a perfect prediction. Like you said though, there is in fact plenty enough uncertainty in science which invalidate the applicability of this on our daily lives.
CFDragon 5 days ago
PS. I love how science today caters it's finding to fit it's mold. You have no idea how gravity works... Yet you're already telling me I don't have free will?
AxionXIII 6 days ago
WRONG! Sorry Dr. Kaku, but no where in quantum physics is consciousness made apparent. In fact, consciousness is an oddity of the theory. How come you say? Simply because we have NO IDEA where our conscious is inside our bodies, nor do we have a single clue what meterial's or properties it's made of. You can argue the course particles take and say they are determined... But you can't say that about a substance or thing that you know absolutely nothing about.
AxionXIII 6 days ago
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I'm a lower level determinist. Not like Einstein but more in a realistic sense.
It's a bit difficult to explain for me, but the way I see it is that the neural connections in your brain, for whatever decision you make, could not have gone any other way. Every little thing or phenomena affects your future decisions. Now these phenomena are NOT predetermined, it's basically like a "shit happens" kinda deal. So we do have free will, but in a way that makes our brains look like a program.
N1njaSalad 1 week ago
I'm a lower level determinist. Not like Einstein but more in a realistic sense.
It's a bit difficult to explain for me, but the way I see it is that the neural connections in your brain, for whatever decision you make, could not have gone any other way. Every little thing or phenomena affects your future decisions. Now these phenomena are NOT predetermined, it's basically like a "shit happens" kinda deal. So we do have free will, but in a way that makes our brains look like a program.
N1njaSalad 1 week ago
God does not play dice. We as humans are just too dumb to know his plan.
danmashuda 1 week ago
@danmashuda Or he's too dumb or malevolent to share his plan with us. A simpler explanation, however, is that he simply doesn't exist.
QcatDoesGames 6 days ago
Oh great, we are determined by quantum randomness instead! Freedom woohoo!
soultorment27 1 week ago 2
One particle's uncertainty wouldn't amount to free will, but look at the synaptic structure of the brain, and how little we even understand how it works, how consciousness arises, its qualia and so on. If your state of consciousness is a big mosaic of wave functions for all possible signals in the brain, ready to trigger a completely unpredictable state of mind... Such a complex structure could amount to free will in that scale. We still know too little to defend either side too much, though.
MarlosZappa 1 week ago
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If even the smartest scientist in the world cannot tell me how the most basic, tiniest, simple cell was created or came to be. How could you ever convince me to believe in a "theory" such as the big bang or evolution? In other words... if you can't explain the smallest and simplest of all things... how does ANYONE put all their belief in a made up theory that is so complex? Man's mortal attempts to deny Creation is pretty sad. Psalm 14:1
spiegeltn 1 week ago
All uncertainty is predetermined. We are uncertain as to what the Dice will roll, but we are certain its going to be between 1 and 6. The very fact that a Dice has a "1 to 6" is predetermined. They way you pick the Dice up, the way you shake the Dice, the way you roll it..even down to the friction of the table, all equate to the predetermined side/number of which the Dice will land. Randomization is governed by a complex set of rules and therefore predetermined.
Alternativeknow 1 week ago
Of course, in this chaotic universe there randomness all over the place. And while humans are free to do what they please, there are thousands of factors that are out of their hands. People'd like to believe they have control of their lives and that it depend entirely on them, but that's not the case. One does have free will, but life is hazardous, so even with free will people can't control their own destiny. It depends much on luck, causality...
Kamyu03 1 week ago
So what if our decisions are predictable? We still make them don't we?
TanzanianRoots 1 week ago
if u can have stimulations.....and then u have reactions then i would think that u could somewhat control ur on......future to an extent because when u have reactions if u can control and learn them.....and call them when u want.....perhaps that is free will?
CynicalNuggit 1 week ago
what if you were standing REALLLLY close to the mirror
dustinmyeyexD 1 week ago
Utter and complete nonsense. He is great at explaining phenomena, but poor at explaining the connection between the phenomena and his overall point.
drche420 1 week ago
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Phoenix5211 1 week ago
so is this video saying we do or dont have free will...?
VoltismProductions 1 week ago
@VoltismProductions I think he's saying that you can't predict the future of what someone will do because of the randomness. And he's equating that to having free will which I don't think makes sense...but he's the theoretical physicist not me
HaasArrest 1 week ago
@HaasArrest
He never addressed how uncertainty gives us free will. The entire point was that without free will our actions would be purely determined by the information available to us. Kaku never provides a logical connection between uncertainty and how this uncertainty gives us "more" than just actions determined by our information.
drche420 1 week ago
But, I put together a motor knowing that it would run and would break down at some point. It did and I fixed it. I did not know exactly where the oil was going or what it was doing but I knew it was ok while it was running. I fixed it after it broke and will fix again when It breaks the next time. Its should not matter where the partical is at one specific moment in time as long as it is in a respectiable place.
Bassturd100 2 weeks ago
I once watched a video in which Sam Harris actually presented an analogy for determinism and the uncertainty principle. He claimed that if a mad scientist were to create a device which controlled our emotions, actions, etc. at will and specifically, would we really have more free will if the device were to control these things randomly? It's a defense of determinism, which I don't necessarily concur with, but a thought-provoking one at least.
SlangForEyesores 2 weeks ago
It would really suck if someday we find out that free will isn't real. But if you forget about it (hopefully the universe has programmed you to) it won't matter.
anticorncob6 2 weeks ago
Quantum indeterminacy ≠ free will.
hyperbolaisagraph 3 weeks ago 46
@hyperbolaisagraph I am so glad I am not the only person who realizes this. That probably sounds narcissistic but everyone I have talked to about free will claims that because there is uncertainty we have free will
ajf1381 1 week ago
@ajf1381 Haha, I know right? It's a strange sort of logical leap to make, yet so many people seem to do it!
hyperbolaisagraph 1 week ago
@hyperbolaisagraph
yes, it is
svallam 1 week ago
@hyperbolaisagraph could you elaborate?
TDP788 1 week ago
@hyperbolaisagraph Quantum indeterminacy = indeterminism.
And that's merely one way of dealing with determinism. There are other arguments, some of which are scientific (mechanical, psychological, etc.), but the majority are philosophical. Once determinism has been rejected, free will essentially becomes a non-issue.
PlasticJ91 2 days ago
not a very good one....
joshuaadamcox 3 weeks ago
@joshuaadamcox it IS a very good one.. we were debating about this a lot with my friends a while ago.. and we came to this conclusion too! ..yes we do this while drinking beer!
Damaskal 3 weeks ago
Sorry, Michio. Randomness is not free will. It's randomness. All you've done is disprove determinism. Assuming that that proves free will exists is the fallacy of false dichotomy.
gguilford72 3 weeks ago
@gguilford72 I agree. Even if people can disprove determinism, it is quite a long way from proving that anyone has free will.
joiruewqnvcxz2475 3 weeks ago
@gguilford72 I don't know what the big fuss is. The existence of free will clearly seems like a no-brainer to me. I think free will follows from the fact that self-awareness exists, separating those with free will from those driven by "programming" / instinct and environment.
TheUltimateCynic 2 weeks ago
i knew i wasent the guy on the mirror xD
furu4e 3 weeks ago
@furu4e But it is you, just 1 nanosecond in the past.
Vellasin 3 weeks ago
Impractical to measure and unfeasible to compute does not add up to "free will." You are still a machine whose specific construction you don't directly control that utilizes laws of nature you don't control.
Snakepliskinist 3 weeks ago
I don't see why guilt and determinism are mutually exclusive. And uncertainty doesn't mean there's choice, it means there's randomness.
Hirfel 3 weeks ago
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@Hirfel Thank you! That's exactly what I thought.
du1eq 3 weeks ago
How does not knowing where the electron is affect the outcome of biological reactions? Also, just because we cannot tell where an electron is, or sort out some of the craziness of quantum mechanics, that doesn't mean that we aren't still bound by their laws. Randomness doesn't rid the fact that we're still be controlled by it.
HaasArrest 3 weeks ago 24
@HaasArrest This idea gets a lot of play in the science fiction novel "Dune". A guild of star navigators who navigate by prescience so clear as to chart a 'folding' of space. Maybe one day "Consciousness" will devise a method of foreseeing even random events. Maybe "Consciousness" was a random event in the universe that just happened by accident on earth. Maybe "Consciousness" decided that being is better than not being. Maybe its out to control randomness, at least locally. No Novacrematorium.
vladdrac88 3 weeks ago
@vladdrac88 wow, very philosophical
HaasArrest 3 weeks ago
@HaasArrest wat
VoltismProductions 1 week ago
@HaasArrest Yes, I'm still trying to figure this out myself. Even if it's true that we can never accurately measure/know where an electron happens to be at any given moment, does it necessarily mean that it isn't still *there*? Why does the indeterminacy remove determinism?
johnjsal 1 week ago
@HaasArrest it seems that the problem here is your semantics, that is, whether or not biological reactions are solely eqivalent to free will.
TDP788 1 week ago
@TDP788 I think physical processes control our decisions aka free will. What other puzzle piece am I missing?
HaasArrest 1 week ago
@HaasArrest yes, physical processes are part of the puzzle, but they are not solely responsible for choices and decisions. The biological processes may not be free, but humans are free because in the realm sociological and psychological stratification, we can manipulate ideas and turn thoughts into action, hence changing our minds.
TDP788 1 week ago
@HaasArrest your heart may be determined to pump blood and make you nervous or afraid, but it may be the thought that caused the fear in the first place. over a space-time interval, your thoughts are suspended, and this in turn affects the state of your body.
TDP788 1 week ago
@HaasArrest Yes, it does. I've proved it many times over.
OMGITSDRJESUS 1 week ago
@HaasArrest Controlled, how so? The simple premise of 'Random Control' is very un-scientific... Oh science, if only the old alchemist's and philosopher's of yor could see what single lane and narrow road our wise men now take...
AxionXIII 6 days ago
@AxionXIII Controlled because when you really break down thought processes you'll end up with basically chemical reactions (and physics) that are taking place. We really can't control these reactions, they will happen if the conditions are favorable. These reactions are influenced through different means, such as anti-depression medications and other drugs, or stimuli based on your senses (sight, hearing, smell etc). Its a very simplified way of looking at it but that doesnt make it incorrect.
HaasArrest 5 days ago
@HaasArrest A random electron affects the outcome of biological reactions because the human brain is like a computer (albiet massively more powerful). We use bio-electricity to think, electricity is of course a wave moving through electrons so if a electron randomlly pops into existence in our brain it alters our thinking, (think having a tube of marbles and pushing a new marble in). And altering what we think changes what we do.
NXTG3N3 6 days ago
@NXTG3N3 Ah I get what your saying, an electrical pulse may take a slightly different path to its destination based on the location of the electrons that the pulse is traveling through (which will alter the pulse slightly). Thanks for clearing that up.
HaasArrest 5 days ago
@HaasArrest Electrons effect biological operations in the body. That's known. And should be obvious. That slight randomness can influence events billions of years ahead. That said, just because you can predict someone is going to do a certain action, doesn't mean they didn't use their free will to do it.
X7ELI7X 3 days ago
@HaasArrest Exactly, several scientists agree with Einstein on this point and disagrees with what Dr. Kaku is presenting here.
erikalst 50 minutes ago
Even if randomness exists, this does not undermine determinism whatsoever. Surely even this guy could have worked that one out.
DeoMachina 3 weeks ago
Sr1129 are you meth?
carletouk 3 weeks ago
Yeah, I do like these videos but I always thought that human interaction which is affected beyond the collapse of the wave function is essentially conducted based on Newtonian determinism. Yes, there's always the possiblity that quantum chaos might affect a human mind and thus their decision but even that is out of our control.
FinalFanatic1986 3 weeks ago
@FinalFanatic1986 What if quantum chaos is actually what is necessary to generate alternate realities? If all Universes were governed solely by newtonian laws every Universe with the same beginning would run the same way. To have a man go left where he would have turned right surely requires quantum chaos? So what if apparent chaos is actually the underpinned and yet determined order of the Universe, one Universe's quantum signature, quantum timeline which determines the events.
FinalFanatic1986 3 weeks ago
@FinalFanatic1986 It would appear very much to be chaos unless you could walk between universes and view entire histories of the quantum world, but that doesn't mean it is actually chaos, it is merely order in the guise of apparent chaos necessary to generate infinite quantum realities from a singular base template universe or control universe. Surely that is at the very least possible?
FinalFanatic1986 3 weeks ago
@FinalFanatic1986 From a singular beginning, infinite diversity. I don't think chaos can even exist, I mean in quantum mechanics isn't time an illusion? All events exist simultaneously and are occurring now and always. So doesn't that mean that the future is as fixed as the past? Therefore surely chaos cannot exist and it must be something else, perhaps the necessary ingredient for infinite diversity from a single base template.
FinalFanatic1986 3 weeks ago
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Mihio Kaku: "Hey get used to it, einstein was wrong".
Einstien : DA FUCK!!!!!!!!?
Isaac Newton : Hey! I created calculus, dont say anything about me kaku.
Graham Bell : So, you think you always right kaku?
Stephen Hawking : you're an athiest just like me. hi 5 bro.
devilgloom 3 weeks ago
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devilgloom 3 weeks ago
Why bicker, even true determinists believe that even though we have no free will (if you believe that) that we need to act like we do or else nothing would ever get done.
wburton16 4 weeks ago
no determinism doesn't = free will.
hac1m 4 weeks ago
@hac1m
depends how you define free will
harry3life 3 weeks ago
quantum physics.. heavy duty stuff
ashman9992 4 weeks ago
personally I believe free will was just an illusion, but there are so many variables one could never predict and individual.
mikeymikemikey1 4 weeks ago
@mikeymikemikey1 And you have good reason to believe that; it's a sound arguement. But I think the key thing to remember is that neither Free Will or Determinism are laws, just theories, and neither will ever be fully proven OR discredited. Even if you knew every variable, that 'wild card' is their, but does that PROVE free will with no doubt? No.
Feel what you don't know. It's sort of like how we can't prove the world around us is real since we have no other source but our flawed senses. :)
EmceeProphIt 3 weeks ago
@EmceeProphIt the world real or fact pertains to knowledge as we have it. That is to us as humans not in the literal sense. I.e a lie, if someone lies to you and you dont know any better than it is true but only to you. But to be more specific the lie is not true because above your conciousness there is reality, you just arent aware of it in the moment because you lack that knowledge. It isnt a question of real or unreal but how we perceive it, the two can be mutually exclusive.
sr1129 3 weeks ago
@sr1129 Of course, but a rational philosopher has to concede at some point there are things we need to assume are true, otherwise life comes to an end. We can ponder all we want, but the healthy among us still talk with friends, read, play sports, play games, write, create, make love and observe nature because at the end, we concede that we are limited to our perception. But that doesn't have to render life a 'lie'. Philosophy, to many, is simply a pursuit of happiness and fulfillment.
EmceeProphIt 3 weeks ago
@sr1129 I hate the comment limit length, anyway...
Think of it like this: Love is a series of chemical reactions, does that make it any less meaningful or pleasurable to us? No, not to me anyway. We lack certainty, and we always will, so we basically have to function with that in mind. Our world is what we make it, what we perceive. There is no absolute perfect perception of the world to obtain, it's just a matter of trying to answer as much as we can, if anything. And trying to be happy.
EmceeProphIt 3 weeks ago
Heisenberg's principle has been experimentally violated.
chrizzly88 4 weeks ago
@chrizzly88 not true since its the basis for quantum physics?
Hinduspy 4 weeks ago
Essentially, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle proves Ivan Karamazov (Dostoevsky's character in Brothers Karamazov) right. Ivan says, "If there is no God, everything is permissible." Heisenberg proves free will and no God of Fate so we might as well steal and murder and do whatever the fuck we want to do. Like Nietzsche telling Freud to leave his family and quit his job. I did it. I live in Belize, fuck whores and drink tequila all day. I feel no remorse.
JayGatsbyOdysseus 4 weeks ago
@JayGatsbyOdysseus That's why you're commenting on this?
MuseFanNacho 4 weeks ago
@JayGatsbyOdysseus Is free will that important , whether its free will or a predetermined outcome? I would say no...If by chance things are pre-determined will it change anything? No it won't... The only reason this is in discussion is for nerds to discuss...
mywotzone 4 weeks ago
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"Determinism" disregards the existance of CHAOS: An essential part of reality. The physical world is in constant flex and change. Gradual change indeed, but unpredicable change. This is the basis of Freedom, Creativity and Evolution itself !
Avalon400 4 weeks ago
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Avalon400 4 weeks ago
This is where quantum mysticism encroaches on my atheism and separates me from those who base their atheism on snark. Those people were never really trying to discover the truth to begin with, they just want another excuse to be an asshole and troll religious folk. Keep an open mind atheists, quantum 'mysticism' is not a dishonest scheme like the intelligent design 'debate' (as if there were anything to really debate). thanks.
MrBaldurthegood 4 weeks ago
Dr. Kaku is eluding himself. It is true that quantum mechanics says you cannot prove the future, therefore, Einstein was wrong and there is no determinism.
But concluding from this that you have free will is saying that YOU control where the electron goes. This reasoning can make dr. kaku feel good but is just plain idiot, "god will save me from me enemies" style.
ajosemr 4 weeks ago
@ajosemr Good point. Chaos is just as much out of our hands as perfect order is. Whether one or the other is what truly rules the universe, it makes no difference regarding freewill, which is a metaphysical (and thus very abstract) concept.
bongolongo 3 weeks ago
What if all future events are already determined? We might not currently or ever have the means of determining what will happen, which could mean that there is a "map" for the future. The Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment:
Imagine you have a set of cards, shuffled by a machine. You guess the top card, cut the deck, and observe the top card. In theory, wound't it not matter if you had or hadn't cut the cards since we have no way of knowing what the outcome would be if we didn't cut the deck?
LOLxWILLxLOL 4 weeks ago
Perhaps reading the "Drunkards Walk" would open his mind a little about randomness and what it is. It can be argued that uncertainty is nothing more than a incomplete understanding of events. We don't know all the mechanisms and there for it has elements of randomness to us. Far as I can tell nothing is settled within the debate of "free will." The phrase "Free Will" is as elusive as god and I think is just a place hold for the word "soul."
jimb504 4 weeks ago
sorry dr kaku. you let yourself down with that conclusion!
omnimindgod 4 weeks ago
ah but then we can be uncertain about your uncertainty, and thus certain that there is no free will!
garfieldclass10 1 month ago
@garfieldclass10 Or certain that there isn't.
victoneter 1 month ago
Buddha already explains free will... and so far, relative to physics, buddhist teachings are infalible.
1CreEpZz 1 month ago
i feel like we probably wont know if we have free will or not. if we had it, or don't have it, we'd see it as the exact same, i think. if we dont have free will, then everything we do, even if we conclude that we have free will, would be determined already and we were "meant" to conclude that in the first place... i dont think we can really tell. i say we all just chill the fuck out and do what we "want" to do
AkaStevie 1 month ago 2
A lot is being presupposed here. The whole idea that indeterminism is required for free will is controversial. Indeed most contemporary philosophers dispute this. Furthermore indeterminism isn’t sufficient for free will if it even plays a role at all! What needs to get clarified is what we mean by “free will”. But more importantly, it’s hard to see how indeterminism could be any more compatible with free will than determinism can! Indeterminism seems to get us nothing but sheer randomness!
soultorment27 1 month ago
Physics isn’t going to settle this dispute. No doubt physics plays a role and perhaps is even necessary, but it isn’t by any means going to be enough to settle the dispute. It's a conceptual issue, not an empirical one...
soultorment27 1 month ago
First of all, it hasn't yet been settled whether indeterminism is true. But more importantly, it's just being assumed that indeterminism is required for there to be free will. This however is very controversial. Indeed it's hard to see how mere randomness could amount to something being "free".
soultorment27 1 month ago 2
@soultorment27 because the randomness allows for potential to make decisions. indeterminism opens doors to many possibilites that can be molded by experience. i think this whole thing ties in to the double-slit experiment and the observer effecting the nature or things. sorry if i confused you. just my theory ha
TDP788 1 week ago
Arabs use the word "maktoub" wich means "It's written"(everything is already written down), beautiful world
amimadif 1 month ago
A tangential point: regarding the mirror reflection and us seeing ourselves a fraction of a second in the past, Daniel Dennett i think pointed out that since all processing in the brain takes time, we never actually experience the real-world present...
odinssverd 1 month ago
when i look in the mirror, i just see a mirror. i'm not there. it's just a mirror. i mean there is an image that is similar looking, but my conscience would never say that thats ME in the mirror. i can't be inside something that just refracts light? idk.
BrandonShayMusic 1 month ago
If the universe were only comprised of matter, then, yes, the universe would be completely predictable and totally predetermined. When you include consciousness, things become infinitely more complex. Consciousness drives evolution, but, it also drives all life and motivates all creativity. The fact that creativity is a main feature of consciousness really kind of precludes it from anything "predictable" or "predetermined". Now as our understanding increases, we might find out differently.
Kostly 1 month ago
I'm not sure what that last point about the mirror has anything to do with this topic. Can someone explain...
rodparsa18 1 month ago
God doesn't play dice! We do. The electron could be here or there! But that factor is base on each individuals experience and vibrations! We create the here and there possibility, both to ourselves and influencing others and all surrounding! God it's so easy, doesn't anyone get quantum physics ;P
391infotube 1 month ago
But what is the actual causal connection between the indeterminate nature of subatomic particles and the indeterminate nature of human decision-making?
kwebb121765 1 month ago
I don't understand how this is an argument for free will at all. How does randomness equal choice?
DaneEVA 1 month ago
@DaneEVA For those who don't understand the uncertainty and free will connection. What he was saying whas that if there is no randomness in the universe, we can predict everything everybody does. So therefor nobody has free will. But if there is uncertainty and randomness in electrons and people's brains. Than we can not predict what they will do so in some sense they have free will.
00the00virus00 1 month ago
@00the00virus00 Hang on, I still don't understand. Why does humanity's ability to predict the electrons location have to do with them being predetermined? Is there nothing causing their location?
Lucanio 1 month ago
@Lucanio Ok, lets put this another way, So if physics works that way we can predict every thing, than we can calculate what happens in every system there is. Humans are a system, and physics applies to them. So if there is no randomness, we can calculate everything they do, nothing will be unpredictable, they way they move can be explained by the way the electrons move in the brain like a computer, it just means the brain is a biological computer and we can predict everything humans do.
00the00virus00 1 month ago
@Lucanio Part 2. Now if there is uncertanty like in quantum mechanics there will always be things that can not be predicted, like the positions of electrons, we can not say calculate what happens only the probability of it. Now you take a human, it's a system governed by quantum physics, but now you can not predict it's doing, because the matter/waves behaves randomly, so everything in the system is random, you can not predict what the human does, so it has to have free will.
00the00virus00 1 month ago
@00the00virus00 I think @Lucanio is talking about the human's /ability/ to predict electrons. Just because we don't have the ability to predict them now doesn't mean that they aren't predictable - it just means we haven't found out how or have the capacity to do so. Electron position may still be fully subject to physics and may not be "random" at all.
pixelsage 1 month ago
@pixelsage Yes we don't really know yet if electrons appear randomly, but modern physics is built on it, we have much to learn maybe we just don't understand how orbitals and waves work.
00the00virus00 1 month ago
He really doesn't get determinism. FREE will doesn't exit because there is no such thing as anything supernatural - there are no souls. Our will is determined by things like biology, society, upbringing - things we don't control therefore our will is not free. And he consciously misinterprets Einstein.
LeonidasSthlm 1 month ago
@LeonidasSthlm The universe is predetermined.Consciousness cannot be predetermined because of potentialiality, probability and nearly infinite possibilities of any action at any time. WEll, the universe and consciousness operate as one, but, within the other. If that makes any sense.So as far as a universe without consciousness is concerned, it is totally predetermined.But, since consciousness is involved, there is uncertainty due to the interaction between the quantum realm and consciousness.
Kostly 1 month ago
If no one can determine your future can you yourself determine it? Is it free will or are you a slave to the probability of these uncertain events?
muffin8or 1 month ago
Mihio Kaku: "Hey get used to it, einstein was wrong".
Me : "Are you always right Michio kaku?"
devilgloom 1 month ago
Free will, at least in a religious context, is reserved only for human beings. In a scientific context, it applied to all particles of matter. Under Dr. Kaku's definition, trees and rocks can have free will just the same. To me, calling the random and unpredictable movements of electrons "free will" is a stretch, because although it may not be a predetermined future, there is virtually nothing that we can actually choose for ourselves at this subatomic level. I see no evidence for or against.
strangebatteries 1 month ago
The title is somewhat misleading. It's more accurately: "What some famous Scientists thought about free will from the perspective of Physics"
valdrec 1 month ago
Just because you can't see the future doesn't mean you have free will. The choice you make is still the choice you always were going to make. There is no alternative because you only exist on one timeline. Even if there is another timeline, then that technically isn't you. I was always going to have typed this just as anyone who responds was always going to and anyone who doesn't was always going to; regardless of how many times you change your mind, it doesn't change the outcome.
YourMovieSucksDOTorg 1 month ago
@YourMovieSucksDOTorg
The only debate in regards to free will is semantics. What I consider to be free will might not be the same definition that someone else gives.
YourMovieSucksDOTorg 1 month ago
If you want to know the Scientific stance on Free will, Neuroscience is the place to go. Neuroscience deals with the brain, and consciousness. It depends on how you define yourself. Neuroscientific research suggests that your actions and decisions are being made unconsciously by your brain, and "making the decision yourself" is you being aware of your brain's decision. If you define yourself to be seperate to the sum of your parts (your physical body) then there is no free will.
DanieltheSkeptic 1 month ago
That last statement seemed so random, because i don't see any connection in free will and light going a billionth of a second to the mirror and back.
zukodude487987 1 month ago
So in other words, physics doesn't end the free wil debate.
dambobjob 1 month ago
Simpsons comic book from way back had Prof. Frink say "In fact God DOES play dice with the universe; in fact, it appears to be some highly complex form of Yahtzee". Thought I'd share something funny.
twominutepenalty 1 month ago
The fact that our mind can figure out different options and choose among them, that's what philosophically and practically is the free will
People dont understand that the same arguments u can use to deny the existence of free will aply for denying the existence of this universe in each of its aspects
hegemoniuspiper 1 month ago
Humans beings create ideas such as the uncertainty principle because it is simply outside of human knowledge to be able to observe the complex motion of sub-atomic particles. However, if humans were to have the power to calculate the effects of every single factor involved in the movement of an electron, we would realize that all events in the universe (even supposedly random events), are predictable within physical universal laws. Humans label what they don't know or understand as "free will."
Theshenster88 1 month ago
the future doesn't exist
ronnyboy6o 1 month ago
@ronnyboy6o so should this comment
dondamaster94 1 month ago
Saying the molecule movements and interactions in our bodies that lead to our thoughts and actions are random instead of predetermined isn't a case for freewill. Whether matter behaves deterministic or indeterministic, we're still subjugated by the actions of matter on a subatomic level. Anything else would imply our minds transcend the material world, when they are a product of it.
belolacove 1 month ago
The strings aren't any less there just because the puppet can't see them.
belolacove 1 month ago
But could Michio have said anything else in this video?
;-P
TJGuitarVids 1 month ago
THAT !
poveryzer 1 month ago
minority report
zembboo 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HAHAHAH It's ignorance to presume that we know what the true nature of the electron is considering we don't even know where it's at.
Kostly 1 month ago
1:29 ... I see an awesome scientific genius.
TheUshankaBrothers 1 month ago
There's more than meet the eyes in MK's speech. Einstein was correct in saying predetermined actions based on the past actions: Karma. Karma has no beginning and no end. The cause and effect can delay to manifest to uncertain time...no one can tell. Perhaps some fortune tellers could. One can alter their bad Karma by changing their behaviors toward loving kindness and compassion so their bad karma can be negated.
Trodua 1 month ago
@Trodua If Karma has no beginning and no end, why not just skip a step and say it never existed at all.
roadkill1001 1 month ago
@roadkill1001 You think that simple? How to skip a step? Karma makes us exist. It's a natural law like in science: cause and effect. When you end the cause, then you can skip Karma. But that's almost impossible. When you and I are here typing these words,
karma is working behind us. Perhaps for this simple example :I will not answer you: the karma will cease.
Trodua 1 month ago
@Trodua Karma is not cause and effect. Karma is the pseudo interpretation of the butterfly effect that states it is an entity activly measuring the good and the bad, almost as if karma is a deity in it's self.
roadkill1001 1 month ago
@roadkill1001 Science calls it "cause and effect" . Karma is natural law that science discovers and interprets it into mathematics, physics...etc.
Karma is more on spiritual idiology than science. What's in the name: it's just form of labeling. Karma is a Law of Nature. It is the law. For it is everywhere and always — omnipresent, all-pervasive. The West philosopher calls it the Law of Causation.
This law came before scientific law .
Trodua 1 month ago
Philosophy of impermanence. The Cross horizontal line represents our existing world dimension which is always trapped in the past or your future. Between these two periods of time, there is one vertical line crossing over this past and future. Jesus was aligned on this line at his crucifixion.
The vertical line is the NOW, free from space and time. It's neither past nor future. It's Deathless. It's in another dimension - spiritual world.
Trodua 1 month ago
near the end at the mirror part i expected him to say " when i look at me in the mirror i say to myself,damn i look good!
Wolf78033 1 month ago
I don´t think this is physics, this is philosophy.
am101171 1 month ago
this comment was predetermined
xXSk1llzTh4tK1llzXx 1 month ago
So, i did not write this comment.
vinivinus 1 month ago
Einstein was not above admitting when he was wrong: "When Edwin Hubble showed proof that the universe was expanding, for example, Einstein admitted he was wrong."
TaureDawn 1 month ago
Particle data may not be determinable, but that doesn't mean the particle is in multiple places at once. Considering the limits on our perception of these things it's much more likely that when a particle looks to physicists like it occupies multiple points, it is in fact just going real fuckin fast (which we already know they do). This guy is asking you to believe that things must simultaneously exist in multiple locations & the leap between that assumption and free will is still one of faith.
BenjaminTLaing 1 month ago
@BenjaminTLaing I think the video is too short where he doesnt explain it very well. Quantum computers already rely on the principle that an electron can be in multiple places at once and although they are not fully functional they have some amount of functionality.
The quantum computer is based upon the two split experiment which only leads to the conclusion that unmeasured electrons can occupy more than one point in space
roadkill1001 1 month ago
@roadkill1001 If they're computing probability it means that they admit to not knowing the parameters with precision. We know there is uncertainty in the measurements because we recognize our inabilities, but uncertainty of prediction and non-determinism are different things. That is to say, just because it looks to us that an electron passes through two slits at once, doesn't mean it does. And the freewill implies that we harness this ambiguity for our decision making- this is wish thinking.
BenjaminTLaing 1 month ago
@BenjaminTLaing When the electron is not measured, it still produces a wave like pattern, which is only formed when the electron passes through both slits at the same time. This is done with a single electron when it is not measured with any kind of detector.
This could indeed be due to our limitations of measurement, however at the same time there is a significant change in how the electron behaves when it is measured and when it is not.
roadkill1001 1 month ago
@roadkill1001 Which is why you cannot measure it. Thanks for proving my first point.
As to my second, I'll elaborate. Even if we assume that particles can have more than one position at a given time, which is a pretty big concession I'm giving for sake of argument, freewillies still have to believe that this phenomena can enable you to cheat your 'fate'. Notice you cant even define free-will without some reference to determinism. Try it.
BenjaminTLaing 1 month ago