No inner rotation in the beginning of the form as you show it at 1:23 . Check Ip Man's videos. Crossed arms are very dangerous as they are very easy to block to jam you. Like at 2:07, he could easily jam you and unbalance you after. This first move of the form is both arms going up, but an application of this can be using one arm going up with that angle to get rid of wrist grappling for example. Your inner rotation is even against wing chun principles as it takes time and is a complex movement.
@Nikoo033 Nice comment and I appreciate it. Thanks.
Leung Ting claims he added Kwan sau himself to the first movement, as it is as you say in other styles. However, I disagree with notion that inner rotation is against WC principles. It is in many places in the forms, even in chain punching.
You even know in application this is done as a single move and I show it as split rotation at 2:26
They are linked only to act as a guide for learning kwan sau along centerline, just as for Tan and gaun.
By inner rotation, I meant specifically that move done at the beginning. Not of course the all other rotations present in the rest of the form. But still, I don't like this addition as in the form. Thanks for the details anyway.
This is only the arms and stepping portion of this exercise. It progresses to having kick counters as well. However, kicking requires you to stand in one place on a single leg, and thus you have lost mobility. So we generally do not kick first, but we do kick a kicker, or jam into them to rob their base.
Keep in mind this is a drill and not free sparring.
I see much regarding tradition and telling others their oppinion..last I checked we are not Han we do however do our best to honor their sacrifices and ways of combat.We are however born in modern day America and seeing how Di-Si-Gung Ting is still Head instructore at the V.T gym in Hong Kong take it up with him. He may slap you around a bit....lol....we just do the best we can with what we have guys like it or not.Good job Si-Hing Jeff
For example, the anti-grappling program or the Latosa program really have little to do with Ving Tsun can they be trained by a Ving Tsun student? Sure, but it's not Ving Tsun. The lines need to be very, very clear.
The question then becomes, "who are we to modify the art?" The Han people who created it spent their lives fighting to survive, they were at war for so long and invaded by so many, that fighting was a way of life.
So you train in Manderin and follow the traditional family system and dress codes? Holding the Han and freezing the system in time would seem to go against the "tradition" of being the best for the needs of the current time. I respect the concept of preservation, which is why we clearly have our Classical program.
A more important question is how can you know it was even "preserved" in perfect condition for you to continue with.
WT is based on a core philosophy and is always checked against that. We do not even trust that our Sifu is getting it perfect, we are taught to check everything ourselves.
Uncle Yip did this with what he was taught in China and what he learned from Leung Bik or that he developed himself as his understanding grew.
Only if you blindly trust tradition will it get weak with every generation.
The Anti-Grappling Program is indeed a modern invention using the movements and principles of WT. It is clearly taught as such and thus is not part of the classical program. While _ing _un has grappling, sweeps, counters to throws and can even be used if put on the ground, the training programs we use are new.
Latosa Escrima is not required but provides actual weapons systems from a culture that uses them.
wing chun`essence derives from bak hok kuen (white crane boxing) and snake style kung fu...please note that the greatest masters of chinese martial arts learned more than a single style to create a style of their own...wing chun is not an exception.
Well, first off, it is just terms to place the TYPE of training within EBMAS, but "wing Chun", the parent style is a long held tradition. Second, things from even the 1970's are considered "classic" these days and are restored and preserved as reference points. The fact you think WT is "hybrid" just shows you haven't preservd the traditional roots for reference.
the WT system/training contains stuff like ground-fighting, locks & chokes and drills mixed in from other martial arts (such as lat sao from the fma). under this aspect it IS a "hybrid"! the traditional wing chun is a boxing system, simple and direct, not more.
Which is why in EBMAS we seperate out old fashioned "Tradtional" Chinese Kickboxing from the new stuff like focus mitt work, ground fighting, Escrima weapons, etc..
Please help me understand at what point in time/history does _ing _un have to be frozen as Classical/Tradtional? and what add ons are now hybrid?
it's a bad idea to talk about classical/traditional, better talk about pureness or "essence": the essence of wing chun is it's simplicity, directness and efficiency. whenever you leave this path, be it by adding stuff (hybrid), be it by complicating the answer to an attack (inefficency) you leave "wing chun".
So you refuse to think for yourself then? The Tradtion of Wing Chun is to improve. If you believe in Pureness, but refuse to develop and test this CONCEPT, you may just end up copying the distorted crap from the previous generation. Classical is the standard by which we improve.
absolutely not. i encourage myself to think - that's why i quit WT for lack of conclusiveness and found something that convinces me. the wing chun i do also develops and improves, but not by adding more and more stuff but by perfecting what's there. you do not need more answers/movements for certain situations (this goes against the thesis of simplicity, directness and efficiency), you need LESS: goal is to knock out your opponent, not more.
So your just playing word games then. WT is not Hybrid as you claim. Also, I clearly said we have a classical program WITHIN WT and we also have Modern material. But its all "Pure" _ing __un. By your standard what is Added in or what is "new" techniques? AGAIN, what year or period of Wing Chun do you think was the purest level?
concerning the year/periode question: it is hard enough to assume how yip mans wing chun has looked like. further back you can't go. it's also a question of defining "pureness". but if i equate pureness with grasping the essence of wing chun (again: simplicity, efficiency, directness) then i'd say yip man MUST have had a great understanding, for the simple reason that he indeed had a FEW students which actually took over this understanding of wing chun. few students i say. out of many.
without mentioning any names: MOST of yip mans students just didn't have the grasp for wing chun, and so do(n't) their students, and the students of these students... and here you have the situation that wing chun is certainly no more on it's purest level. be it by misunderstanding movements or principles, be it by adding "Modern material" or "new techniques" (such as groundfighting) by virtue of not understanding wing chun and filling up evadable blank which in fact are knowledge gaps.
Ya, these two posts make sense. I will only ad that a simple and direct fighting style, as in when fighting, might not be so simple and direct to teach.
Tings WT has devloped many training sections and theorys, but it is all in line with the simple and direct application using muscle memory. So it may not be as it was, but it is not Hybrid either. Now EBMAS could be considered Hybrid, since we cross in FMA for weapons.
it's up to you if you choose to try to see/add more in/to your wing chun than there originally is, but then you gotta accept that i call it a hybrid. and you maybe should ask yourself the following: is it really "evolution" when someone adds new techniques and stuff to his wing chun for the simple reason that he just can't see that the wing chun concepts and principles (and techniques) actually would cover everything already?
Just my view. Ving Tsun should be passed down unchanged. That was the view of Yip Man as preserved in the Kuin Kuit. The only change that should be made to the system should be at a personal level which is the process that we use to preserve the system. When someone changes the system as much as Mr. Leung and then passes it down to other generations.... it ceases to be the same martial art. That is why you now teach EBMAS based on Ving Tsun but it's not Ving Tsun.
True. WE have Traditional _ing _un, even though it may be Dr. Tings version of it from Uncle Yips later period and then we have alot of stuff created later using the WT Principles and theories. Many things like weight training, kettle bells, focus mitts, ground fighting, ect are added in so we try to present the material as either "classical" or modern. Always Spring time means to continue to grow, but it is good to keep the root around incase the growth turns out to be in a bad direction.
It's only bad when what has been modified gets absorbed into a student's understanding of what Ving Tsun is. If a training method is made up by you and you teach your students and then they teach their students, then suddenly what you have done is modified what Ving Tsun is. That is how martial arts get lost and why inevitably, each generation is weaker than the last.
The tone of your comments imply that even Si-Gung Moy Yat did not invent any training programs but only repeated what he was taught. or that Uncle Yip taught only one way to all his students. I can not believe this. Things grow.
two snails, a mountain, 10,000 years....all things are possible.
I've incorporated Chi Sau sections when training Shaolin sticky hands in Ma Bo. It's funny because my sifu sees what I'm doing and enjoys sitting (low ma bo or whatever stance he feels) and watching me find a way to integrate certain parts of sections ;).
The entire point of Chi Sau, from what I know is to experience MANY "touch" spots and to build comfortability in close combat.
yes, well sort of. when people get bogged down in sequences they loose focus on reactions. the sections are just a nice way to organise the reactions.
Exactly. Its so as you randomize the patterns you do not forget any of them. The important part is the random free flow, but PEOPLE will have favorite patterns or certain habits which will draw your training into set patterns, even if those patterns are random. The sction concept helps insure your covering all the possible eneergy vectors and using all the moves in your Forms.
Sifu Salih Avcı is very good, so what? Si-fu Emin has taught me very well for over 12 years, including regular visists to my region for seminars. You are flat out wrong to say he doesn't teach anything. That is BS. What does he do then?
i dont know what this should teach anyone.. and why does he stand on his front leg most of the times?! a small kick on the front leg would be terrible :)
Front leg can easily become the back leg to defend kicks, or simply lift it up.
This video is meant to show a technique being trained in Form, Chi Sau, and Application, from the WT system. You have uploaded videos of only demo/applications, so this video shows viewers where that fits in to the bigger picture.
dont make me laugh if you were real you wouldnt be showing all your computer skills your kung fu is really quite pathetic, nice japanese top knot mister chinese kung fu master
Try saying that to anyone who wore them in the original Chinese culture and you'd get your ass kicked. For that matter go tell some guy in a ghetto that his 'fro is gay or tell a cop that no one wears stupid hats like they do, etc. Grow up and be yourself.
For all you uneducated mucho men out there, the correct term for "muscle memory" is REFLEX! Do some reading besides training, especially you IChinaManI. You should use the alias "sum dum ching", it sounds better for you!
actually, Mr.ToFoxy, it is REACTION, not reflex. Reflex is inherient and can not be programed or altered, so the technical word is reaction. but I like muscle memory as it gets the point across that its the limbs not the brain that do the work, kinda like how you type....
im always open to tryin different martial arts. but watching this and never seeing wing tzun on a street level dosnt make me want to try it out. I prefer to stick at muay thai bjj and restraignt techniques. on another note maby get some one not so over wieght to show in ur vids
Hey, he can still touch his toes!! He just has a better center of gravity then most people!! He is actually what I call Average and normal, not everyone has a Perfect athletic figure ya know..
But yes, and watch for more vids, I will cover street and sparring soon, as well as other _ing __un stuff.
This video is not ALL of WT. It is only a small segment of what we refer too as Classical. We are not traditionalists that refuse to adapt or to add new programs, we add new material all the time. This Video is just a short outline of one movement in the form being done in several training methoods, progressing from Solo to partner and then to application. Sparring freestyle would be next, but I only have 10 minutes for each vid.
And from there it becomes a very fine, smooth, and systematic way of fighting. When youre standing however, the fighting is alot more frantic, and most TMA's become a "fancy mess" when the simplest boxing and muay thai is most effective. I think BJJ can't be compared to what bruce said, and I think that wing chun is not necessarily a very useful art, in a real combat situation.
_ing __un is training to develope reaction time in the same way as wrestling, but for interupted strikes. Most other striking arts are only strikes and movement/footwork. They do not develope muscle memory for when the strikes "feel" opposition on the way in, except on accident. This is what Chi Sau is for.
Please keep in mind that in a fight we just strike and strike some more, and we just let the muscle memory work if it needs to(blank out as you say). The mind is too slow to try to think of answers at close range. This is the same reason others stay at long range, or why BJJ closes in tight to use muscle memory on contact. We are working on the same thing, but for strikes.
And then you look for a submission to pulloff, so I guess BJJ is a "fancy mess" to a fraction of a degree, but BJJ is hardly a mess of moves, as even the most seasoned BJJ practitioner will stick to the basic armbars, kimuras, and guards. Fighting on the ground, slows the pace down immediately if the person is a good at BJJ, because you immediately control the opponent when you go to the ground.
BJJ, as I learned it, has a move/ counter-move pattern for every techinque, a flow that you run to develope muscle memory. You learn to feel the set up of submissions and automatically do the counter to it. So it has a "chi Sau" type drill as well. It has the benifit of being non-destructive, so you can apply more aliveness earlier, compaired to striking arts.
I wouldn't say that wing chun is horribly convoluted, but it certainly has lots of un necessary movements. BJJ is reliant also on muscle memory, like when you got to the ground you instantly hook an arm and get a bodylock, etc etc.
Thanks for your comments. WT has sparring and freestyle work too, just as MT and Boxing. The point of a chi sau type drill is to program precise muscle memory on PURPOSE, technically, and not to just develope it haphazardly over time as is done with sparring. Also, the most important thing is to not get injuries in training. and to not develope BAD habits. The structure of Chi Sau is designed to do this.
whenever i get ina street fight my stance is the same, my combos are the ones i train over and over, and my mentality is the same. (mostly blank) Even in arts like muay thai the repetitive movement of a punch kick, knee, or retaining the correct stance becomes muscle memory. Any repetitive movement whether you do katas or not well give you muscle memory.
Listen I understand the TMA system, as my uncle used to be a wing chun and sanshou practitioner. The katas or forms are important in developing the necessary muscle memory, but this is only one way. Any combat sport or art relies on muscle memory. I trained muay thai at the k-o gym in guangzhou and I;ve grown to like it very much.
I should point out that I am only wearing my Technitian outfit because this is about Classical WT. I normally wear a blue sports outfit or World Cup soccer jerseys in my videos.
"Instead of facing combat in it's suchness,then, most systems of martial art accumulate a "fancy mess" that distorts and cramps their practitioners and distracts them from the actual reality of combat, which is simple and direct."
BJJ does face combat in it's suchness, you've seen it in the cage. An 170 pound fighter like Royce was able to take on bigger, stronger, skilled opponents and win.Can you really say that BBJ distracts him from the actual reality of combat?No one would take Bruce's statement above and apply it to such an effective art like BJJ.The arts that Bruce is reffering to are the very arts who failed over and over again in the UFC, chun included.
BJJ has a long, long list of techniques to use, move and counter move. It is a "fancy mess" too. Yet it obviously works. That is my point. Royce was trained from Birth, not a good model to use.
I do understand your point about training methods being a distraction in fighting. This is a problem. This why we have applications. Chi Sau does nothing for you if you cann't transfer those skills.(sparring)
The WHOLE point in _ing __un is that the training has made it automatic. In a fight, you just go, and let your muscle memory take over.
No inner rotation in the beginning of the form as you show it at 1:23 . Check Ip Man's videos. Crossed arms are very dangerous as they are very easy to block to jam you. Like at 2:07, he could easily jam you and unbalance you after. This first move of the form is both arms going up, but an application of this can be using one arm going up with that angle to get rid of wrist grappling for example. Your inner rotation is even against wing chun principles as it takes time and is a complex movement.
Nikoo033 2 years ago
@Nikoo033 Nice comment and I appreciate it. Thanks.
Leung Ting claims he added Kwan sau himself to the first movement, as it is as you say in other styles. However, I disagree with notion that inner rotation is against WC principles. It is in many places in the forms, even in chain punching.
You even know in application this is done as a single move and I show it as split rotation at 2:26
They are linked only to act as a guide for learning kwan sau along centerline, just as for Tan and gaun.
DrTzeus 2 years ago
By inner rotation, I meant specifically that move done at the beginning. Not of course the all other rotations present in the rest of the form. But still, I don't like this addition as in the form. Thanks for the details anyway.
Nikoo033 2 years ago
This is only the arms and stepping portion of this exercise. It progresses to having kick counters as well. However, kicking requires you to stand in one place on a single leg, and thus you have lost mobility. So we generally do not kick first, but we do kick a kicker, or jam into them to rob their base.
Keep in mind this is a drill and not free sparring.
DrTzeus 3 years ago
do you have any application videos?
domite1 3 years ago
I have some planned and some film but nothing edited yet.
DrTzeus 3 years ago
I see much regarding tradition and telling others their oppinion..last I checked we are not Han we do however do our best to honor their sacrifices and ways of combat.We are however born in modern day America and seeing how Di-Si-Gung Ting is still Head instructore at the V.T gym in Hong Kong take it up with him. He may slap you around a bit....lol....we just do the best we can with what we have guys like it or not.Good job Si-Hing Jeff
CRIPPLE35 3 years ago
For example, the anti-grappling program or the Latosa program really have little to do with Ving Tsun can they be trained by a Ving Tsun student? Sure, but it's not Ving Tsun. The lines need to be very, very clear.
The question then becomes, "who are we to modify the art?" The Han people who created it spent their lives fighting to survive, they were at war for so long and invaded by so many, that fighting was a way of life.
We go to class a couple nights a week...
vyvial 4 years ago
So you train in Manderin and follow the traditional family system and dress codes? Holding the Han and freezing the system in time would seem to go against the "tradition" of being the best for the needs of the current time. I respect the concept of preservation, which is why we clearly have our Classical program.
A more important question is how can you know it was even "preserved" in perfect condition for you to continue with.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
WT is based on a core philosophy and is always checked against that. We do not even trust that our Sifu is getting it perfect, we are taught to check everything ourselves.
Uncle Yip did this with what he was taught in China and what he learned from Leung Bik or that he developed himself as his understanding grew.
Only if you blindly trust tradition will it get weak with every generation.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
The Anti-Grappling Program is indeed a modern invention using the movements and principles of WT. It is clearly taught as such and thus is not part of the classical program. While _ing _un has grappling, sweeps, counters to throws and can even be used if put on the ground, the training programs we use are new.
Latosa Escrima is not required but provides actual weapons systems from a culture that uses them.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
wing chun`essence derives from bak hok kuen (white crane boxing) and snake style kung fu...please note that the greatest masters of chinese martial arts learned more than a single style to create a style of their own...wing chun is not an exception.
spartanwarrior1 4 years ago
funny you talk about classical and raditional WT. since WT is not traditional at all, it's a hybrid style
flavoursaver 4 years ago
Well, first off, it is just terms to place the TYPE of training within EBMAS, but "wing Chun", the parent style is a long held tradition. Second, things from even the 1970's are considered "classic" these days and are restored and preserved as reference points. The fact you think WT is "hybrid" just shows you haven't preservd the traditional roots for reference.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
the WT system/training contains stuff like ground-fighting, locks & chokes and drills mixed in from other martial arts (such as lat sao from the fma). under this aspect it IS a "hybrid"! the traditional wing chun is a boxing system, simple and direct, not more.
flavoursaver 4 years ago
Which is why in EBMAS we seperate out old fashioned "Tradtional" Chinese Kickboxing from the new stuff like focus mitt work, ground fighting, Escrima weapons, etc..
Please help me understand at what point in time/history does _ing _un have to be frozen as Classical/Tradtional? and what add ons are now hybrid?
DrTzeus 4 years ago
it's a bad idea to talk about classical/traditional, better talk about pureness or "essence": the essence of wing chun is it's simplicity, directness and efficiency. whenever you leave this path, be it by adding stuff (hybrid), be it by complicating the answer to an attack (inefficency) you leave "wing chun".
flavoursaver 4 years ago
So you refuse to think for yourself then? The Tradtion of Wing Chun is to improve. If you believe in Pureness, but refuse to develop and test this CONCEPT, you may just end up copying the distorted crap from the previous generation. Classical is the standard by which we improve.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
absolutely not. i encourage myself to think - that's why i quit WT for lack of conclusiveness and found something that convinces me. the wing chun i do also develops and improves, but not by adding more and more stuff but by perfecting what's there. you do not need more answers/movements for certain situations (this goes against the thesis of simplicity, directness and efficiency), you need LESS: goal is to knock out your opponent, not more.
flavoursaver 4 years ago
So your just playing word games then. WT is not Hybrid as you claim. Also, I clearly said we have a classical program WITHIN WT and we also have Modern material. But its all "Pure" _ing __un. By your standard what is Added in or what is "new" techniques? AGAIN, what year or period of Wing Chun do you think was the purest level?
DrTzeus 4 years ago
concerning the year/periode question: it is hard enough to assume how yip mans wing chun has looked like. further back you can't go. it's also a question of defining "pureness". but if i equate pureness with grasping the essence of wing chun (again: simplicity, efficiency, directness) then i'd say yip man MUST have had a great understanding, for the simple reason that he indeed had a FEW students which actually took over this understanding of wing chun. few students i say. out of many.
flavoursaver 4 years ago
without mentioning any names: MOST of yip mans students just didn't have the grasp for wing chun, and so do(n't) their students, and the students of these students... and here you have the situation that wing chun is certainly no more on it's purest level. be it by misunderstanding movements or principles, be it by adding "Modern material" or "new techniques" (such as groundfighting) by virtue of not understanding wing chun and filling up evadable blank which in fact are knowledge gaps.
flavoursaver 4 years ago
Ya, these two posts make sense. I will only ad that a simple and direct fighting style, as in when fighting, might not be so simple and direct to teach.
Tings WT has devloped many training sections and theorys, but it is all in line with the simple and direct application using muscle memory. So it may not be as it was, but it is not Hybrid either. Now EBMAS could be considered Hybrid, since we cross in FMA for weapons.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
it's up to you if you choose to try to see/add more in/to your wing chun than there originally is, but then you gotta accept that i call it a hybrid. and you maybe should ask yourself the following: is it really "evolution" when someone adds new techniques and stuff to his wing chun for the simple reason that he just can't see that the wing chun concepts and principles (and techniques) actually would cover everything already?
flavoursaver 4 years ago
Just my view. Ving Tsun should be passed down unchanged. That was the view of Yip Man as preserved in the Kuin Kuit. The only change that should be made to the system should be at a personal level which is the process that we use to preserve the system. When someone changes the system as much as Mr. Leung and then passes it down to other generations.... it ceases to be the same martial art. That is why you now teach EBMAS based on Ving Tsun but it's not Ving Tsun.
vyvial 4 years ago
True. WE have Traditional _ing _un, even though it may be Dr. Tings version of it from Uncle Yips later period and then we have alot of stuff created later using the WT Principles and theories. Many things like weight training, kettle bells, focus mitts, ground fighting, ect are added in so we try to present the material as either "classical" or modern. Always Spring time means to continue to grow, but it is good to keep the root around incase the growth turns out to be in a bad direction.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
It's only bad when what has been modified gets absorbed into a student's understanding of what Ving Tsun is. If a training method is made up by you and you teach your students and then they teach their students, then suddenly what you have done is modified what Ving Tsun is. That is how martial arts get lost and why inevitably, each generation is weaker than the last.
vyvial 4 years ago
The tone of your comments imply that even Si-Gung Moy Yat did not invent any training programs but only repeated what he was taught. or that Uncle Yip taught only one way to all his students. I can not believe this. Things grow.
two snails, a mountain, 10,000 years....all things are possible.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
Chi Sau "sections" are BULLSHIT and the death of real sticky practice.
FightingWarrior 4 years ago
what? So how do you keep track of the various methods contained in the six forms?
If you meant focusing on section memorizing and not also working on free applications then I agree, but then thats what I said in the video.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
I've incorporated Chi Sau sections when training Shaolin sticky hands in Ma Bo. It's funny because my sifu sees what I'm doing and enjoys sitting (low ma bo or whatever stance he feels) and watching me find a way to integrate certain parts of sections ;).
The entire point of Chi Sau, from what I know is to experience MANY "touch" spots and to build comfortability in close combat.
pcfxer 4 years ago
yes, well sort of. when people get bogged down in sequences they loose focus on reactions. the sections are just a nice way to organise the reactions.
locochilli 4 years ago
Exactly. Its so as you randomize the patterns you do not forget any of them. The important part is the random free flow, but PEOPLE will have favorite patterns or certain habits which will draw your training into set patterns, even if those patterns are random. The sction concept helps insure your covering all the possible eneergy vectors and using all the moves in your Forms.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
Hey! Great video, ignore these blokes
veggiedrummer 4 years ago
Thanks. These haters just give me the drive to get in those thousands of punches on my walbag!! Arrhhh!!
more video coming....
DrTzeus 4 years ago
emin himself is very good but he didn t teach any one anything.... so to you.. try to contact salih..
sihingalkan 4 years ago
Sifu Salih Avcı is very good, so what? Si-fu Emin has taught me very well for over 12 years, including regular visists to my region for seminars. You are flat out wrong to say he doesn't teach anything. That is BS. What does he do then?
DrTzeus 4 years ago
who allowed you to teach? Hoe long have you been training? Have you considered stopping as you know every little.
blahblah12367 4 years ago
well, this was about 10 minutes long, so if by very little you mean what I can fit in here, yes, but that is not ALL that I know.
DrTzeus 4 years ago
i dont know what this should teach anyone.. and why does he stand on his front leg most of the times?! a small kick on the front leg would be terrible :)
monkasshole 5 years ago
Front leg can easily become the back leg to defend kicks, or simply lift it up.
This video is meant to show a technique being trained in Form, Chi Sau, and Application, from the WT system. You have uploaded videos of only demo/applications, so this video shows viewers where that fits in to the bigger picture.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
no offence, everyone as he feels like :)
monkasshole 5 years ago
dont make me laugh if you were real you wouldnt be showing all your computer skills your kung fu is really quite pathetic, nice japanese top knot mister chinese kung fu master
mastasifukilla 5 years ago
If you had any skills you would upload and show them.
If you had ANY skills you would know how to reply under the original comment.
And the Top Knot was Chinese before it was a samuari thing, check out any terra cotta warrior statue.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
For you Doc, it's terra turd-da on your head! Brah ha ha ha :p
mofotox 5 years ago
Try saying that to anyone who wore them in the original Chinese culture and you'd get your ass kicked. For that matter go tell some guy in a ghetto that his 'fro is gay or tell a cop that no one wears stupid hats like they do, etc. Grow up and be yourself.
Golgo2047 4 years ago
For all you uneducated mucho men out there, the correct term for "muscle memory" is REFLEX! Do some reading besides training, especially you IChinaManI. You should use the alias "sum dum ching", it sounds better for you!
mofotox 5 years ago
actually, Mr.ToFoxy, it is REACTION, not reflex. Reflex is inherient and can not be programed or altered, so the technical word is reaction. but I like muscle memory as it gets the point across that its the limbs not the brain that do the work, kinda like how you type....
DrTzeus 5 years ago
Sherdog folks, I am not that Troll.
Keep in mind this is not ALL of WT, only the definition of Classical or TMA.
and EBMAS is based on the true, original MMA anyway, ESCRIMA.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
im always open to tryin different martial arts. but watching this and never seeing wing tzun on a street level dosnt make me want to try it out. I prefer to stick at muay thai bjj and restraignt techniques. on another note maby get some one not so over wieght to show in ur vids
pomguy 5 years ago
Hey, he can still touch his toes!! He just has a better center of gravity then most people!! He is actually what I call Average and normal, not everyone has a Perfect athletic figure ya know..
But yes, and watch for more vids, I will cover street and sparring soon, as well as other _ing __un stuff.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
check out thomas braun on youtube and you see some serious action mate ;)
monkasshole 5 years ago
Yeah, I saw those, pretty nice.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
i really want to kick your ass
mastasifukilla 5 years ago
Kick my ass? You don't even now how to upload video. Try putting a face behind your typing first.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
This video is not ALL of WT. It is only a small segment of what we refer too as Classical. We are not traditionalists that refuse to adapt or to add new programs, we add new material all the time. This Video is just a short outline of one movement in the form being done in several training methoods, progressing from Solo to partner and then to application. Sparring freestyle would be next, but I only have 10 minutes for each vid.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
And from there it becomes a very fine, smooth, and systematic way of fighting. When youre standing however, the fighting is alot more frantic, and most TMA's become a "fancy mess" when the simplest boxing and muay thai is most effective. I think BJJ can't be compared to what bruce said, and I think that wing chun is not necessarily a very useful art, in a real combat situation.
IChinaManI 5 years ago
_ing __un is training to develope reaction time in the same way as wrestling, but for interupted strikes. Most other striking arts are only strikes and movement/footwork. They do not develope muscle memory for when the strikes "feel" opposition on the way in, except on accident. This is what Chi Sau is for.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
Please keep in mind that in a fight we just strike and strike some more, and we just let the muscle memory work if it needs to(blank out as you say). The mind is too slow to try to think of answers at close range. This is the same reason others stay at long range, or why BJJ closes in tight to use muscle memory on contact. We are working on the same thing, but for strikes.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
And then you look for a submission to pulloff, so I guess BJJ is a "fancy mess" to a fraction of a degree, but BJJ is hardly a mess of moves, as even the most seasoned BJJ practitioner will stick to the basic armbars, kimuras, and guards. Fighting on the ground, slows the pace down immediately if the person is a good at BJJ, because you immediately control the opponent when you go to the ground.
IChinaManI 5 years ago
BJJ, as I learned it, has a move/ counter-move pattern for every techinque, a flow that you run to develope muscle memory. You learn to feel the set up of submissions and automatically do the counter to it. So it has a "chi Sau" type drill as well. It has the benifit of being non-destructive, so you can apply more aliveness earlier, compaired to striking arts.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
I wouldn't say that wing chun is horribly convoluted, but it certainly has lots of un necessary movements. BJJ is reliant also on muscle memory, like when you got to the ground you instantly hook an arm and get a bodylock, etc etc.
IChinaManI 5 years ago
Thanks for your comments. WT has sparring and freestyle work too, just as MT and Boxing. The point of a chi sau type drill is to program precise muscle memory on PURPOSE, technically, and not to just develope it haphazardly over time as is done with sparring. Also, the most important thing is to not get injuries in training. and to not develope BAD habits. The structure of Chi Sau is designed to do this.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
whenever i get ina street fight my stance is the same, my combos are the ones i train over and over, and my mentality is the same. (mostly blank) Even in arts like muay thai the repetitive movement of a punch kick, knee, or retaining the correct stance becomes muscle memory. Any repetitive movement whether you do katas or not well give you muscle memory.
IChinaManI 5 years ago
Listen I understand the TMA system, as my uncle used to be a wing chun and sanshou practitioner. The katas or forms are important in developing the necessary muscle memory, but this is only one way. Any combat sport or art relies on muscle memory. I trained muay thai at the k-o gym in guangzhou and I;ve grown to like it very much.
IChinaManI 5 years ago
I should point out that I am only wearing my Technitian outfit because this is about Classical WT. I normally wear a blue sports outfit or World Cup soccer jerseys in my videos.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
Who's rating me a 1 and not commenting why? Thats pretty weak.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
Hahaha..ummm yeah
edrockz 5 years ago
ummmm....no. I will delete dumb stuff like this.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
"Instead of facing combat in it's suchness,then, most systems of martial art accumulate a "fancy mess" that distorts and cramps their practitioners and distracts them from the actual reality of combat, which is simple and direct."
Bruce Lee
peckerwood78 5 years ago
Please also post this under any BJJ instructional video too. Thanks for playing.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
BJJ does face combat in it's suchness, you've seen it in the cage. An 170 pound fighter like Royce was able to take on bigger, stronger, skilled opponents and win.Can you really say that BBJ distracts him from the actual reality of combat?No one would take Bruce's statement above and apply it to such an effective art like BJJ.The arts that Bruce is reffering to are the very arts who failed over and over again in the UFC, chun included.
peckerwood78 5 years ago
BJJ has a long, long list of techniques to use, move and counter move. It is a "fancy mess" too. Yet it obviously works. That is my point. Royce was trained from Birth, not a good model to use.
UFC/Pride is not Combat. It is friendly Sports.
DrTzeus 5 years ago
I do understand your point about training methods being a distraction in fighting. This is a problem. This why we have applications. Chi Sau does nothing for you if you cann't transfer those skills.(sparring)
The WHOLE point in _ing __un is that the training has made it automatic. In a fight, you just go, and let your muscle memory take over.
DrTzeus 5 years ago