John Piper - Marriage & Thoughts Behind Proposition 8

[IcyScythe]

although I totally believe God defines homosexuality as a sin, I'm not convinced we should outlaw homosexual marriage.

I mean are we going to outlaw greed, lust, pornography, divorce, etc.? If we did the entire population would be in jail.

[2LoveRebuke]

If you see a child about to touch a hot stove and you don't tell him no you do not LOVE him. Love is a concern for others well being. Piper has it. This issue is just as simple as a child and a hot stove. In my community I have seen many peoples' lives devastated by sexual immorality including my own. There is always a price to pay for the things you do. You shouldn't need the Bible to see that. We live in a nation full of people with burnt fingers because no one will warn them.

[apruitt2008]

I pray that God would save you all. Claiming to be wise, you become fools (Romans 1). Perhaps you should check out that book in God's word. Pretty nice stuff.

[EZEKIEL3622]

below was my response to your "video response" schwartz. I posted this John Piper video as a "video response" on your video, hoping you will approve mine as I did yours here?

[EZEKIEL3622]

Respectfully, I cant agree, yes a Christian is supposed to love, but we stand on truth. I can love you, and still feel that homosexuality is a sin against you & God.The "world" defines me as an alcoholic, I define myself as a "new creature" in Christ,I still sin, but am saved by grace alone.a true Christian sees all of humanity given over to sin, born in sin, for all have sinned & suppress the truth, Rom 1:18.The "nature" of a regenerated Christian is at odds with going against scripture.peace

[CJGmiami2]

The only debilitations caused in the child's growth is stunted by an intolerant society. What are those statistics that you find so damning? I found it a week argument that single sex parents do a poorer job at raising children.

No, on Prop 8!

[CJGmiami2]

I dont get it..... America is not a theocracy! If you want one of those, live in Iran.

[briebo1]

@CJGmiami2 I completely agree. Bonhoeffer I think sets it out pretty clear in Ethics that we as Christians should stay out of the affairs of government, at least in the realm of trying to bring religion into the secular institution of government. There is not one scripture anyone can point to which encourages Christians to interject our faith into the affairs of government. If Christians try to legislate morality, non-Christians will take offense, as they should!

[InfectiousAttitude]

It is all an action reaction. Historically there has been repression and hatred against homosexuals. In their own wrong, they react by fighting back to state it is illegal to preach Romans 1. I don't understand what does allowing gay marriage have to do with anything else? Why is it that people connect allowing it to everything else being legal? What does it have to do with laws against murdering or stealing? Allowing gay marriage is not going to ban heterosexual marriage. Stop extremism...

[InfectiousAttitude]

Reply to thku4grace: I already replied to the part about Canada. Specifically this is about your comment to incest. Incest is genetically and scientifically NOT a good idea. It leads to a decrease in genetic diversity and threat of extinction. This is the secular reason why incest is illegal. Also, incest promotes a real danger to young children as they are the ones exploited. There are only religious arguments against homosexuality.

[InfectiousAttitude]

Sigh. I am not an extremist. We have got to accept that extremism is wrong. If there is a law that states it is illegal to preach Romans that is wrong because that violates freedom of speech. It is wrong to limit rights on either side. Whether to limit rights of preaching religion or limit rights because religion says it is wrong. This is NOT a theocracy. I also wrote my previous comment wrong. I meant to ask if we will declare divorce to be illegal since it is a sin too?

[InfectiousAttitude]

Look. Even if someone believes homosexuality is a sin Biblically does not mean they can make a law against it It is separation of Church & State. Divorce 13 wrong Biblically. Are we going to declare divorce a sin? Why is there such prejudice against homosexuality? And all of my arguments is as a heterosexual male. got am no biased for homosexuality.

[Patternpop]

Yes divorce is a sin!

Anyone who divorcees and dosen't repent is in serious sin.

Just like homosexuality.

[InfectiousAttitude]

Here is a news flash Piper. Your sermons will not become illegal in this United States as long as we are being TOLERANT. The very idea you are trying to subvert by voting yes on Prop 8. Head over to a communist country. Or a theocracy. Then you will get thrown in jail for preaching something different. Why? Because the laws there RESTRICT rights. Hmm sounds like what Prop 8 does. Funny how you say you fear your rights being subverted by you are for a proposition that will subvert others rights.

[Patternpop]

Homosexuality is caused by G-d read Romans 1:20

Because they turned the incorruptible image of G-d into the corruptible image of man.

G-d gave them therefore over to the lust of the flesh.

Homosexuality is because of idolatry.

THEN Romans chapter 2.

Therefore why do you judge you who do the same.

I am an ex-gay my self.

The demand for approval is a very ominous thing. It took me  while for G-d to change my heart but through Christ it was done.

I praying for you with a blessing on my lips.

[EZEKIEL3622]

Amen Brother! Here is the way I see it, I am probably defined by the "world" as an alcoholic (dry for 5 months and 30 days), much to the Power of God. But I see myself as not an alcoholic but as "new creature in Christ" struggling with my sin, "too much alcohol" All have sinned, and fallen short, we are already given over to our sin, it takes a supernatural work of God to change our heart, regardless of the sin that dwells in us. Newsflash,i'm thinking about a beer right now, day by day pray

[Patternpop]

It was a struggle for a long time but now G-d has completely turned my heart around and has purified me.

Congratulations on getting free from the ball and chain.

[thku4grace]

InfectiousAttitude:

You are absolutely wrong!! It is now illegal in Canada to preach Romans1. Pastors are in jail now as we speak. This is coming. Liberals like you are absolutely not tolerable while claiming it is others that are not tolerable. Additionally, no one is here outlawing homosexuality, we are just attempting to forbid the tarnishing of the institution of marriage for the purposes of providing credibility to otherwise deviant sexual behavior like homosexuality, and next incest.

[InfectiousAttitude]

Piper. I respect you. I love your book "Desiring God" but you are preaching hate here. You found "statistics"? Statistics that kids growing up in same sex households are more messed up? More messed up than who? Than kids growing up in single family households? More messed up than divorced house holds? More messed up than so called "happily" different sex household? Piper you completely miss the point of this country...

[rainbowheartgirl]

I think if Piper had done even a little bit of research, he would have seen that there are no statistics saying that children of gay parents are more messed up. Or even slightly messed up. There have been well over 30 years of studies on the topic. Google "APA gay parents" or "22 year lesbian study" (no quotes) for lots of info.