Spawktalk Makes a Liar Out of Me (sort of)

[thatkamikid]

@fringelements

Well, not a moral code because I'm a emotivist but I wanted to.I'm doing that to everyone I meet today.

[thatkamikid]

@fringeelements

I'm sorry you might hate this but I'm required by my moral code to say I love you today.I love you and I hope you have a wonderful life.

[thatkamikid]

What if one person from a authoritarian legal agency calls the cops for someone doing drugs when their legal agency says it's O.K.?

[fringeelements]

Laws need to harmonize, legal agencies have protocols, common law. They work it out.

Also, it's highly unlikely that a legal agency would proclaim it to be illegal to do certain drugs over all of the former US. More likely there would be some town that banned it, and if you did drugs in that town, well... oh well.

[smashedsaturn]

one question about your theory of legal agencies you brought up in your several part series and here again:

say i live in town x, where the local legal agency says porn is illegal, then i subscribe to a legal agency in town y which says porn is legal, then members of the town x agency "sue" me for viewing porn. As i subscribed to a different legal agency then i have not violated my law, but their laws; in short how would different legal agencies settle disputes such as this.

[smashedsaturn]

Another dispute I see in this system is say a legal agency (LA a) has the age of consent at 11, a historically common age, but because of this child sex trafficking and child pornography as currently defined would be legal in LA a. This would undoubtedly scar many children being exploited by individuals for profit. How would other legal agencies stop LA a from harming children.

I find it hilarious that I am arguing to the left of someone for once in my life; excellent videos, some great points.

[fringeelements]

Lots of scenarios that depend on the depth and breadth of the opposition to the peculiar agency. If the other legal agencies place a general outlaw the peculiar agency, then if the peculiar agency ignores this then people may or may not organize to militarily stop what they deem offensive in the peculiar agency, and the peculiar agency may or may not resist that military action, and one side or the other may win. Pretty obvious.

[smashedsaturn]

@fringeelements

But then where will the legal agencies get the money to raise an army, as you outlined in the defense section any LA that raises an army will be not attractive to members and then loose the revenue to raise the army, I agree with you on most of your points, but this is one i just cannot seem to grasp,

[smashedsaturn]

I personally believe in a minimalist federal government slightly smaller than under the articles of confederation, that is extremely limited, and the states would essentially become legal agencies with a geographic monopoly

[fringeelements]

The difficulty in raising an army applies to both sides. The main mechanism for preventing legal agencies with intolerable laws is that those agencies won't be able to harmonize, making their members de facto outlaws for most of the people they come into contact with.

[fringeelements]

Legal agencies will have to harmonize to the extent that's what consumers demand. Similar to states doing that, except that these aren't geographic monopolies and individuals can switch between them as easy as they can switch between phone companies, so we can be virtually certain that it would be much smoother than the protocols for inter-state disputes.

[Akatam0t0ma]

@shadowgeyser:

"Nope, public roads are *totally free*"

Yes, they are! Karl Marx revealed himself to me in a dream and said so! Would you dare to doubt Marx infinite divine humanitarian wisdom, you racist fascist social darwinist who hates the poor and masturbates to picture of polluted rivers and children dying of malnutrition?!

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@shadowgeyser IF you're stupid enough to support modern day highway robbery through toll roads then that's your own ignorance. I've seen public roads stolen by private corporations who put up massive tolls to make us pay to drive on roads we already paid/pay for. Privatization is a cancer. Private industry worships profit as a god and they have no other real concerns.

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

"modern day highway robbery"

As opposed to taxation, which is SOOO totally NOT robbery! Hey, if it makes the cock of your pet political philosopher hard, how can it be robbery? Right? And then you will say "I worship no state" while calling religionists stupid for believing in mystical beings, lol.

"Privatization is a cancer"

Actually, it is your massive and abysmal willful economic illiteracy that is cancer. But have no fear, for there is plenty of easily available...

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

...cure for it, and your condition is not terminal. But hey, you can't force a horse to drink, so whether you want to be cured of it or not is up to you.

"Private industry worships profit"

You are still trapped in this pre-economic view that there is something inherently evil about profit, which is bullshit. Profit is not evil. Profit is a signal that a person is making a wise allocation of resources.Not that your puny statist brain can be bothered with this simple fact...

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

...but there it is. Now that you had this ignorance dispelled for you, are you willing to rethink it? Don't worry, Karl Marx will not deny your entry to the Great Commmunist Paradise in the afterlife for it. That doesn't exist either, thank the non-existent gods.

[fringeelements]

Well what I think happened is that he never had a good theoretical underpinning for his "anti-statism". When I first started talking to him, he was a straight-up neo-lockean, then dismissed that, and then kinda-sorta agreed with me, but never really understood my arguments, and then started reading some paleocon stuff and flipped, erroneously thinking he had seen it all.

[jackscare]

Will you respond to Spawktalk?

[fringeelements]

Responding to spawk is a lot of work and it doesn't address a large demographic.

[jackscare]

@fringeelements

Spawk's video still addresses good reasons to doubt anti-statism, even if his demographic isn't "big".

It would lend you more credibility if you were able to debunk his arguments.

Just saying.

[DerrEinzige]

@jackscare

Except that said ideas have already been proven to be "unrealistic"

[JesseQuick23]

Fuck Yah SONIC!!! Sonic the hedgehod he's the fastest fucking hedgehog, you can't catch him cuz he's hatchog and he's really fucking fast. Catchen Emralds, Fucken Bitches. Drinken forties he's a fucking hedgehog. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand yah.

[ChaosSilver25]

are you ever going to continue the Psychoanalizing VideoGames series?????

[CytherLynx]

@fringeelements

excellent video.

but just one thing. the reasoning on how religion formed etc may not be accurate. religion has a lot to do with theory on 'states' so its important to states formation, and also ethics (im an atheist btw). anyway just recommending a possible way of understanding all this is through books like 'religion explained' by Boyer. and the most paradigm changing book imo 'the selfish gene by dawkins. just my 2 cents worth

i think i'll go play sonic now

[Mathiassss]

Cool Video Bro

[fringeelements]

It's only the BEST video ever!

[Ishpeck]

Go, Sonic!

[TheSupremeSkeptic]

I like Spawk. His arguments for statism are more original.

[SecularNumanist]

1. Youre great at Sonic 3. I don't think I saw you get hurt once.

2. Very well argued though I'm still not even sure standing armies are required.

3. I still like Spawk though even if you guise dont get along no moars

[shaurz]

You play Sonic 3 very differently to me. I didn't know there were so many hidden areas, also I didn't know that you could get all the blue balls by just going around the outer ones. I normally don't bother with chaos emeralds.

[fringeelements]

Eh... you'll have to ask him. From last I've heard, he is operationally a moral nihilist (non-cognitivism can be a form of nihilism), but views morality as the equivalent of an exclamation, like "damn" of "shit", and so would view normative rights as being nonsense. It's not an important point, just an odd thing I noticed, and he doesn't like to be called a moral nihilist. I think it's not worth even mentioning, but Spawk cares quite a bit about this distinction.

[fringeelements]

I noticed that as well. My position on defense about 4 months ago was admittedly weak / incomplete. The lack of a standing army really plagued my system, but supporting a stateless standing army was a leap I was unwilling to take because I thought it was too statist. No statist was smart enough to see this problem, and no anti-statist or even minarchist really busted my balls. Well spawk came charging at me and forced me to take that leap. Really he wants to be a statist now.

[Taiyama2]

Hey, welcome back, Ryan!

Also, you kick monumental amounts of butt at Sonic. You must play it a lot.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

You, sir, are wise beyond your years.

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

When did you renounce your membership in the Cult of the Omnipotent State for the cult of anti-statism?

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@Akatam0t0ma I have never worshiped any state, fool. I simply enjoy paved roads, schools, hospitals, libraries and fire departments. I would rather not see this country drug back completely into the dark ages by conservative antitax anarchocapitalist religious nut jobs.

[fringeelements]

His comment was clearly facetious and in jest, notice he said "for the cult of anti-statism".

And if the state monopolized hamburger production and shoe production, would you say people who wish to abolish the state are against hamburgers and shoes? All of those things you brought up have been dealt with at length by anti-statists and "anarcho-capitalists". And clearly we're not conservatives, and you're confusing an overarching coherent theory of the state with dogmatism.

[bamboo4tameshigiri]

@fringeelements Quick tip. I can't tell tone of voice or facial expression in text. When someone sounds like they are being serious, its hard for me to pin that down in a few hundred words. If he was trollin' he got me.

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

To say "I have never worshiped the state" and then in the same breath to zealously endorse every single conventional statist policy is akin to a creationist saying "I am not anti science" and then saying what a bunch of scientific geniuses Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind and Ken Ham are. And saying how not having a coercive monopolies funding the programs that make your tiny statist dick hard, is just like the religionists saying how the whole world will become North Korea if...

[Akatam0t0ma]

@bamboo4tameshigiri:

...we stop believing in the gods. But then, that's what religion does to the human brain, and what is statism after all, if not just another form of religion? After all, it is not a coincidence that statism has its roots in religion. So make no mistake about, so long as you endorse violence against those who won't fund your beloved glorified mafia, you ARE a state-worshiper, whether you like it or not. So please, don't try to insult my intelligence by claiming otherwise.

[Jistga]

I have no idea who you are or what you're talking about... but you sound young and any person that's as young as you sound that can form such a solid argument like you did is extremely impressive to me.

[Aurini]

@Jistga His one-off videos are quite esoteric, but he also does series where he boils things down to the basics - 'Anti-Statism at life speed' is is most recent work, and it's very easy to understand.

[Aurini]

@Aurini I mean "at LIGHT speed" - I get the weirdest bifurcations of my writing when my mind is elsewhere. Sometimes it's a similar sounding word, sometimes it's a different case or tense of the word, other times it's the right case and tense but an unrelated word.

[TigerTzu]

@shadowgeyser Agreed. I've been watching his anti-atni-statism vids with great interest wondering what was such a big deal that it made him drop virtually all his previously held views on politics, but they just don't seem to have the air-tight quality to them that his older videos have.

[Luigi84289]

Spawktalk is just saying that he has no faith in educated well informed people.

[ShwangShwing]

Why do you play with sonic alone? Sonic and tails together is cooler.

[AtheistAltar]

I think Spawk is trolling us. How can you become an anarcho-capitalist and then be convinced it would fail by saying, "one of the PDAs would turn into a state!"?

[Luigi84289]

@AtheistAltar True I have lost a lot of respect for him. He's incorporating his views into his arguments instead of leaving them pure.

[meteosurreal]

@AtheistAltar I doubt it's anything trendy and internet related, he probably just plain sucks.

[wizkid2000]

I got to say that I agree with you more on political science and spawk more on philosophy.

[fringeelements]

Economics is all that matters.

[wizkid2000]

@fringeelements

Exactly my point... very un-philosophical of you.

[Luigi84289]

@fringeelements True and it really seems like Spock is either an ungodly pessimistic person or bsing. We know people will always see that a monopoly is bad apriori if they are educated. It is easy to see the problems and conflicts that arise when you try to give one person or a group total power in any sector. Will people try to seize power in a sector? Yes but it goes back to the radius for lack of a better word of the truly educated. We must remove all delusions and superiority in general.

[AssyrianRebel1]

@fringeelements Yeah definitively, in fact your framework is at it's core, speculative. It is incredibly difficult to predict how order will emerge given the variance in material (technology springs to mind) advances / set backs (natural disasters, ideological flare ups i.e. burn your wealth to be "good").

Who will be left in the dust? Who will pioneer advance? It's difficult to predict.

[Dabba23]

@AssyrianRebel1 True, but states face the exact same problems, and they lack a competitive advantage to filter out the bad solutions that the market has.

[Dabba23]

@Dabba23 Edit: I meant to say that states lack the competitive mechanism to filter out bad solutions, unlike markets, which have this mechanism.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[AssyrianRebel1]

@Dabba23 Yeah I definitively agree the free market does it better, but it's still people we're talking about.

Economic pressure towards rational effective solutions is way better than the status quo, which in many cases provides economic incentives towards the opposite.

Nonetheless it's instructive to illuminate the issues that is typically behind the anxiety which fuels support for the state i.e. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS WITHOUT GUNS ZOMG

[AssyrianRebel1]

Further if anyone had all the solutions it would actually be a pretty good argument for central planning.

[Dabba23]

@AssyrianRebel1 Oh, yeah I definitely agree with that.

[synestheticmonotony]

@fringeelements True, all human activity can be broken down to one social science, and that is economics. However, I will not deny the benefits one can attain by the study of philosophy (esp. epistemology and logic). I began with history, which led to economics, which led to political philosophy, which led to philosophy proper, which led to logic, which led to mathematics, etc. However, the science that most explained the world around me is economics (esp. Rothbard).

[scottpastry]

atheists hallucinate things about aliens and the NWO now??

[motokeiru]

hehe I knew it

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

I personally think that, for someone who navigates a system of polycentric law, there's absolutely no way I can conceive that they would fall for a state.

How the hell do you get someone to sign a contract with you, to the effect that you get to retain for yourself the final right of arbitration for any conflict involving the two of you? Even bothering to make an offer like that would probably be regarded as a sign of narcissism.

Nice comeback video, by the way. Hope you're feeling better.

[Apptendo]

BTW, Were you Playing The Sonic game or did you just use someone elses video?

[fringeelements]

That's all me!

[Apptendo]

@fringeelements Wow, your pretty good at Sonic 3.

[nonaCbarC]

Previously more often the interval between two consecutive vids of yours exceeds three days without certain declarations. :D

Welcome back. :D

[Apptendo]

Rouge the bat is SEXY!