P.S. That's it. You've got enough kilometerage out of me. I suggest reading at length instead of debating in a place that's limited to 500 characters at a time.
No, it was their fault they stayed because they didn't have any brains. But, truthfully, it was everyone's fault. From the top all the way to the bottom. AMTRAK offered free trains out, Nagin declined. Red Cross offered food/water/aid to the Superdome, the Governer declined. Nagin didn't issue a mandatory evac until two days after the storm hit. And 1000's of people remained in a city below sea level in the path of a CAT 3-5 storm. EVERYBODY THINK FOR A CHANGE.
Israel didn't "go for the entire Lebanese nation." Israel actually gave civilians advanced notice before they struck many areas. The problem is that Hezbollah, as terrorists usually do, hide their weapons and launch sites within civilian areas. And when the attacks come it swings the sympathies of chumps like their way. Get a clue!
Not the entire Lebanese nation. Just the whole of its south. Devastated. For 2 Israeli sodiers taken hostage. True, they do hide weapons in civilian areas. But I'm appealing to your reason here. Compare the damage Hezbollah does to Israel to the devastation in the south of Lebanon. It's beyond comparison. Like trying to compare a pebble to a planet.
And here's a link: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060720/D8IVKLK87.html
And Steph, that GLBT comment took the insulting cake. There are no gay rights in Lebanon (and I do know gay Lebanese), but this invasion, like the invasion of Iraq, has likely pushed back the society's ability to evolve towards more freedoms for GLBT's in Lebanon.
Yes, they were straw men. Your (and Steph's) grocery list was refuting claims I did not make, let alone didn't provide any citation. See an orthopedist for that knee-jerking problem. The opinion I am promoting is that the reaction was overblown, violent to civiillians and will not solve anything.
Sorry, they weren't "straw man" arguments. I was merely trying to put the facts on the table as part of the debate because, clearly, you weren't aware of them. Defining the facts of a debate is not an attempt at "straw man" arguments. Get a clue.
The U.S. media is doing a great job showing the fighting from the Hezbollah side. They portray Israel as the agressors. And my facts were all Straw Men? You are either a liar or retarded. Lebanon is not a theocracy, but Hezbollah operates inside Lebanon and do as they please. So Israel should just let the rockets come in and do nothing?
Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells said: 'The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people: these have not been surgical strikes. If they are chasing Hizbollah, then go for Hizbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation.' The minister added: 'I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.'
Who? And what did we have to do with that situation anyway? Why are we blamed for everything in the world that somebody doesn't like? Why do people condemn us for being the "world's police" one day, then condemn us for not doing something about or intervening in another situation the next day? It's impossible to win any debate with young children or irrational/moronic adults.
Lebanon was a democracy, a center of commerce & tourism, and nonviolent. Islamic extremists didn't like that, moved there in droves, became part of the landscape, even the govt., then brought the country down from the inside. When nations are destabilized, they can fall. No invasion required. That's what outside forces are trying to do to the new Iraq govt. (France too?). There are even forces here in the U.S. trying to destabilize our govt. If you don't believe it, then please get a clue.
Thank you for trying to provide the view of the other side without getting all emotionally crazy like some others. In the interests of being fair and balanced, thanks, cause there seems to be mainly anti-Israeli views on this page (myself included).
1-4 all straw men. You imply a lot and I only have 500 characters.
I hear the US media is doing a fine job depicting the Israeli side, and I also believe that Tony Snow and the neocons are well deserving of marginalization after all they've done to their own country.
I agree. US media (Fox especially; can't say they're just 1 network, majority of Americans watch just Fox for their news) depict pro-Lebanese/pro-Palestinian views (basically anti-Israeli views) as radical. Cindy Sheehan case is an example. Ignore her throwing away her credibility by associating herself with Hugo Chavez. Look at her message. Much of the media went against her. And after Katrina, the Bush admin deserves censure from the US public.
I love how you marginalize any response by calling them propaganda. The FACTS are 1. Hezbollah massed on Israel's border and fired, I think, 15,000 rockets into Israel over 4 days, 2. Hezbollah invaded Israel and captured several soldiers, and 3. the U.S. doesn't run Israel.
You have pics of Lebonese injured or killed by Israel's actions, but why don't you have pics of Israelis hurt or killed by Hezbollah? You are the propagandist here, not Tony Snow, you're also a terrorist sympathizer.
5. Syria and Iran use Lebanon as a base for aggression against Israel (and against the Lebanese). 6. Israel has peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and wants the same with the rest of its neighbors. 7. GLBT people are not tolerated in Islamic theocracies.
1,000+ INNOCENT Lebanese CIVILIANS were killed by Israel. WTF are you talking about? Marginalize the opinion as sympathetic to terrorists and you win. It's not working anymore.
Sorry, I though one of our allies (one of only 3 democracies in the Middle East) was defending itself from terrorist attacks across it's border. Guess they shouldn't fight back, huh? And neither should we, then? You should realize 2 things: 1. Terrorists are civilians, and 2. A lot of the "news" coming out of Lebanon was faked/staged. And yes, to me, if you side with terrorists attacking an ally democracy, then you are a terrorist sympathizer. Accept it.
So if you kill 900% more civilians, than the terrorists, what does that make you? The thousands of Americans stranded in Lebanon were faking their fear? Perhaps you should join humanity again and leave your spin to someone that will believe it. Let's not forget that Hezbollah killed SOLDIERS, and kidnapped 3. They did not kill civilians and kidnap 3.
If another country's tanks rolled into my town, you're damn right I'd fight them - and morons like you would call me a terrorist - for fighting another military. Do you get your 'facts' from FOX? Because most of what you said is straight from an Oreilly episode. If you are backed in a corner just call the other side "terrorist sympathizer" and somehow you feel it proves a point.
Making up something I didn't say is a pretty easy way to win. Yes Hezbollah shot rockets into Israel, but I find it hilarious that you would compare the weapons of Hezbollah to the precision-guided weapons from Israel.
Apparently you're too ignorant to just look things up yourself, so here you go - straight from Wikipedia: Israel: 44 dead & 1,489 wounded | Lebanon: 1,187 dead
Let's also completely forget to mention that Lebanese CIVILIANS had nothing to do with this war, yet you sit here and try to run your ill-fact-mouth to justify over 1,000 of their deaths - and only really talk about how less than 50 Israeli civilians were killed by Hezbollah.
Why are there LOADS more pictures of Lebanese getting injured than Israelis? CAUSE THERE ARE LOADS MORE LEBANESE GETTING KILLED/INJURED! Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers. Israel bombed the whole of southern Lebanon to hell. Not disproportionate? Look at the Israeli military and civilian casualties and compare the numbers to Lebanon's. Hezbollah may practise terror but Israel's practicing systematic, state-endorsed opression. And the US keeps supporting them.
Intresting video....intresting the way that that Tony spins 'facts' by leaving infornmation out. It is all documented in varous news sources around the world.
You can also see the sidling being undertaken in these very comments.
If you dont blindly support Israel on all fronts, you are an 'Asshole, pro-terrorist' or a 'Terrorist sympathizer'. I have seen greater interlectual discourse in an open can of three week old, half mouldy baked beans!
Not pro-terrorist at all, but thanks for sharing and no thanks for keeping an open mind. There are a myriad of other ways that the problem of Hezbollah could have been solved without killing innocent civillians, displacing 500,000 people, and laying to ruin all of the rebuilding of an already ruined Lebanon over the past decade.
1. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MNG2QK396D1.DTL&hw=kalman&sn=001&sc=1000
2. Kinda like saying it was the fault of the urban poor in New Orleans that they got stranded because they didn'thave cars?
I stand by my position. There are better ways to do this, but people tend to get a little less creative when they have guns.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
P.S. That's it. You've got enough kilometerage out of me. I suggest reading at length instead of debating in a place that's limited to 500 characters at a time.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
No, it was their fault they stayed because they didn't have any brains. But, truthfully, it was everyone's fault. From the top all the way to the bottom. AMTRAK offered free trains out, Nagin declined. Red Cross offered food/water/aid to the Superdome, the Governer declined. Nagin didn't issue a mandatory evac until two days after the storm hit. And 1000's of people remained in a city below sea level in the path of a CAT 3-5 storm. EVERYBODY THINK FOR A CHANGE.
NoGuff 5 years ago
You're too married to ideology to deliver your "facts" in a mature, honest, human manner. Go away. Get a blog.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Israel didn't "go for the entire Lebanese nation." Israel actually gave civilians advanced notice before they struck many areas. The problem is that Hezbollah, as terrorists usually do, hide their weapons and launch sites within civilian areas. And when the attacks come it swings the sympathies of chumps like their way. Get a clue!
NoGuff 5 years ago
Not the entire Lebanese nation. Just the whole of its south. Devastated. For 2 Israeli sodiers taken hostage. True, they do hide weapons in civilian areas. But I'm appealing to your reason here. Compare the damage Hezbollah does to Israel to the devastation in the south of Lebanon. It's beyond comparison. Like trying to compare a pebble to a planet.
SatyaVenugopal 5 years ago
And here's a link: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060720/D8IVKLK87.html
And Steph, that GLBT comment took the insulting cake. There are no gay rights in Lebanon (and I do know gay Lebanese), but this invasion, like the invasion of Iraq, has likely pushed back the society's ability to evolve towards more freedoms for GLBT's in Lebanon.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Read up on what the US invasion has done for GLBT's in Iraq here: http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=7336
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Yes, they were straw men. Your (and Steph's) grocery list was refuting claims I did not make, let alone didn't provide any citation. See an orthopedist for that knee-jerking problem. The opinion I am promoting is that the reaction was overblown, violent to civiillians and will not solve anything.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Sorry, they weren't "straw man" arguments. I was merely trying to put the facts on the table as part of the debate because, clearly, you weren't aware of them. Defining the facts of a debate is not an attempt at "straw man" arguments. Get a clue.
NoGuff 5 years ago
The U.S. media is doing a great job showing the fighting from the Hezbollah side. They portray Israel as the agressors. And my facts were all Straw Men? You are either a liar or retarded. Lebanon is not a theocracy, but Hezbollah operates inside Lebanon and do as they please. So Israel should just let the rockets come in and do nothing?
NoGuff 5 years ago
Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells said: 'The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people: these have not been surgical strikes. If they are chasing Hizbollah, then go for Hizbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation.' The minister added: 'I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1826969,00.html
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Who? And what did we have to do with that situation anyway? Why are we blamed for everything in the world that somebody doesn't like? Why do people condemn us for being the "world's police" one day, then condemn us for not doing something about or intervening in another situation the next day? It's impossible to win any debate with young children or irrational/moronic adults.
NoGuff 5 years ago
When did Lebanon become an Islamic theocracy? You people need to wipe the froth off your mouths and pay attention.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Lebanon was a democracy, a center of commerce & tourism, and nonviolent. Islamic extremists didn't like that, moved there in droves, became part of the landscape, even the govt., then brought the country down from the inside. When nations are destabilized, they can fall. No invasion required. That's what outside forces are trying to do to the new Iraq govt. (France too?). There are even forces here in the U.S. trying to destabilize our govt. If you don't believe it, then please get a clue.
NoGuff 5 years ago
http://www.infolive.tv for a view from Israel.
StephanieEM23 5 years ago
Thank you for trying to provide the view of the other side without getting all emotionally crazy like some others. In the interests of being fair and balanced, thanks, cause there seems to be mainly anti-Israeli views on this page (myself included).
SatyaVenugopal 5 years ago
1-4 all straw men. You imply a lot and I only have 500 characters.
I hear the US media is doing a fine job depicting the Israeli side, and I also believe that Tony Snow and the neocons are well deserving of marginalization after all they've done to their own country.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
I agree. US media (Fox especially; can't say they're just 1 network, majority of Americans watch just Fox for their news) depict pro-Lebanese/pro-Palestinian views (basically anti-Israeli views) as radical. Cindy Sheehan case is an example. Ignore her throwing away her credibility by associating herself with Hugo Chavez. Look at her message. Much of the media went against her. And after Katrina, the Bush admin deserves censure from the US public.
SatyaVenugopal 5 years ago
I love how you marginalize any response by calling them propaganda. The FACTS are 1. Hezbollah massed on Israel's border and fired, I think, 15,000 rockets into Israel over 4 days, 2. Hezbollah invaded Israel and captured several soldiers, and 3. the U.S. doesn't run Israel.
You have pics of Lebonese injured or killed by Israel's actions, but why don't you have pics of Israelis hurt or killed by Hezbollah? You are the propagandist here, not Tony Snow, you're also a terrorist sympathizer.
NoGuff 5 years ago
5. Syria and Iran use Lebanon as a base for aggression against Israel (and against the Lebanese). 6. Israel has peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and wants the same with the rest of its neighbors. 7. GLBT people are not tolerated in Islamic theocracies.
StephanieEM23 5 years ago
1,000+ INNOCENT Lebanese CIVILIANS were killed by Israel. WTF are you talking about? Marginalize the opinion as sympathetic to terrorists and you win. It's not working anymore.
WFCancer 5 years ago
Sorry, I though one of our allies (one of only 3 democracies in the Middle East) was defending itself from terrorist attacks across it's border. Guess they shouldn't fight back, huh? And neither should we, then? You should realize 2 things: 1. Terrorists are civilians, and 2. A lot of the "news" coming out of Lebanon was faked/staged. And yes, to me, if you side with terrorists attacking an ally democracy, then you are a terrorist sympathizer. Accept it.
NoGuff 5 years ago
So if you kill 900% more civilians, than the terrorists, what does that make you? The thousands of Americans stranded in Lebanon were faking their fear? Perhaps you should join humanity again and leave your spin to someone that will believe it. Let's not forget that Hezbollah killed SOLDIERS, and kidnapped 3. They did not kill civilians and kidnap 3.
WFCancer 5 years ago
If another country's tanks rolled into my town, you're damn right I'd fight them - and morons like you would call me a terrorist - for fighting another military. Do you get your 'facts' from FOX? Because most of what you said is straight from an Oreilly episode. If you are backed in a corner just call the other side "terrorist sympathizer" and somehow you feel it proves a point.
WFCancer 5 years ago
Let's not forget that Lebanon is a Democracy as well.
WFCancer 5 years ago
Hezbollah didn't kill any Israeli citizens? None? You should check the news, pal. You are a LIAR. You're busted, you piece of shit. I win.
NoGuff 5 years ago
Making up something I didn't say is a pretty easy way to win. Yes Hezbollah shot rockets into Israel, but I find it hilarious that you would compare the weapons of Hezbollah to the precision-guided weapons from Israel.
Apparently you're too ignorant to just look things up yourself, so here you go - straight from Wikipedia: Israel: 44 dead & 1,489 wounded | Lebanon: 1,187 dead
3,600 wounded.
WFCancer 5 years ago
Let's also completely forget to mention that Lebanese CIVILIANS had nothing to do with this war, yet you sit here and try to run your ill-fact-mouth to justify over 1,000 of their deaths - and only really talk about how less than 50 Israeli civilians were killed by Hezbollah.
WFCancer 5 years ago
Why are there LOADS more pictures of Lebanese getting injured than Israelis? CAUSE THERE ARE LOADS MORE LEBANESE GETTING KILLED/INJURED! Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers. Israel bombed the whole of southern Lebanon to hell. Not disproportionate? Look at the Israeli military and civilian casualties and compare the numbers to Lebanon's. Hezbollah may practise terror but Israel's practicing systematic, state-endorsed opression. And the US keeps supporting them.
SatyaVenugopal 5 years ago
cute and well thought out. I'm sure the administration appreciates critical thinking like that.
devatron 5 years ago
Tony I mean, he is still a dumbass. LOL
chinlock 5 years ago
Tonny Snow is a dumbass.
chinlock 5 years ago
Intresting video....intresting the way that that Tony spins 'facts' by leaving infornmation out. It is all documented in varous news sources around the world.
You can also see the sidling being undertaken in these very comments.
If you dont blindly support Israel on all fronts, you are an 'Asshole, pro-terrorist' or a 'Terrorist sympathizer'. I have seen greater interlectual discourse in an open can of three week old, half mouldy baked beans!
EvilEuropean 5 years ago
Terrorist sympathizer
DeanML 5 years ago
And you honestly believe this will make things more secure for Israel?
thegayexpat 5 years ago
Not pro-terrorist at all, but thanks for sharing and no thanks for keeping an open mind. There are a myriad of other ways that the problem of Hezbollah could have been solved without killing innocent civillians, displacing 500,000 people, and laying to ruin all of the rebuilding of an already ruined Lebanon over the past decade.
thegayexpat 5 years ago
oh really?? why don't you give some suggestions to "solving" the hezbollah problem, because they have been trying to do it in lebanon for 6 years
azelmano 5 years ago