Forget about net worth. The poor in this country have more than the middle class did in the 1960s. You can't consume pieces of paper, even if they have pictures of presidents on them. Only goods matter. And we have more today than we ever had before. Why is that not enough for people in this country?
@shining3210 that is not racist. Israeli citizens are heavily indoctrinated, similar to Americans. if someone say they "got it now" in reference to a war-hungry American, it would also make perfect sense and not be "racist." you are the one who has openly stated that you are "against" all "devout" islamic people- roughly 22% of all human beings...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Hmm im against people who truly believe, follow and practise, evil ideologies, if that makes me racist, then im a proud one.
Im only indoctrinated with what i learn at school - math physics english literature economics hebrew chemestry and so on .. Im a rationalist, and a free thinker, not dogmatic like you. I examine evidence and conclude to the best of my knowledge.
The palestinians teach their kids that jews are apes and pigs and should be killed..Not israels..
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And how come i, as an israel is "war hungry" when you look at the evidence, israel never opened a war on no country, yet arab neighbors opened many wars of extermination uppon israel and lost. How come israel is war hungry, when all the wars it participated in, were purely wars of self defence against aggression.
Do you read history? Or just watch stalinist or jihadis networks?
@shining3210 i'm not going to feed the troll (aka i still have no interest in debating someone who is "against" 22% of the population of the world because of their religious-affiliation
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Im against any population that which calls to impose their religious set of beliefs on all of humanity. Anyone who indorses this islamic belief, that me you and the rest of humanity should convert to islam, or suffer the consequences, im against him. Im against imposing radical violent tottalitarian beliefs on others. If thats 22% of the worlds population, then yes, im against them.. Whats so hard to understand, unless you plan of converting to islam in the future..
@shining3210 (cont) Ok im wasting my time as well, seems you dont have a clue about anything.. All you know is U.S bad, Israel bad, Capitalism bad, Fox fox fox, racist racist blah blah blah, yet reality and facts seems to be way beyond you..
Open your mind and educate yourself before reaching conclusions.
@shining3210 typical right-winger bigot: talking down to people who don't have an equally radical and tyrannically ideology. everything you've said is false...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Everything i said was truth, you probably suffer from the single digit IQ syndrom like most of stalins and chomsky fans.
No clue about religions, no clue about economics, no clue about history, just blabbering "Fox Fox racist bigot right wing propoganda". Pretty pathetic.
Go kiss terrorists asses, and starve millions to death comrade.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Sure marxist.. If you love marxism and commonism so much why arent you leaving the u.s which you hate so much?
Your extreme left wing ideas have been implemented in north korea, cuba, venezuela etc.. Immigrate there for some "equality" and "social justice".. Or better yet, go live with your "oppressed" jihadis friends in iran or egypt.
@shining3210 p.s. you clearly do not know what "left" means. norway and sweden are left, not north korea. i don't know where you get these fabrications from. FOX News pundits aren't even stupid enough to call North Korea on the left...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Oh you mean those two countries which became so filled with muslims that jews are feeling in mases? Or which their welfare systems are about to crash?
Or the norway which belongs to nato, and participate in every war with the u.s?
You mean economical left? Cultural? Whats the difference between the u.s, and both of those countries in terms of government size, economics culture and so on? And why arent you moving there if they are better then the u.s?
@shining3210 Welfare system about to crash? Sweden has one of the most secure economies of any western democracy: a surplus and thriving industry. Sure the influx of different cultures and growth of antisemitism have caused issues but these are marginal; look at how much higher rates of violent crime, homicide, inequality, social distrust, etc are in the US for real problems.
DGMW I love the US, but i DID leave.
btw, moving to Sweden requires a job placement, citizenship, or refugee status
@cknwngonstrng You cant take the economic/legislative model of a tiny country and implement it on a huge one, and have equal results.
Whats works for sweden in terms of tax burden , wont work in bigger economies..
And the crime rates/inequality in iran and north korea are also way lower then those of the u.s.. You want to implement their economical models because of that?
@shining3210 Saying something won't work just because another state is larger/ smaller is ludicrous. Crime, healthcare, education still come down to policy. Adopting successful models for your state is pragmatic and intelligent. Of course not all states are the same, but that does not mean models cannot be moulded. Also, a higher GDP per capita amongst other developed states does not mean higher standards of living, education, less crime, and ... in the US ... happiness. What would you prefer?
@cknwngonstrng And considering left and right - Sweden corporate tax rate : 26%
U.s corporate tax rate : 35%
Economically speaking, sweden, in major factors, can be considered even more "right winged" then the u.s., not to mention socialized countries.
Economic freedoms are the key to a country's succes (ruling out countries with enormous natural resources). A good welfare system can be maintained only by a big free private sector. Economics is all about balancing..
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And sweden and norway dont have international "Corporations" which hire people in china and other places for low salaries?
They dont have "capitalism", free trade, rights for property and so on?
Per capita, they have more natural resources then the u.s by far, so it might be easier for them to provide a better "welfare" to their tiny populations, so how the hell they are to the "left" in comparison the the u.s?
@shining3210 First, some pretty clear ways in which Sweden is more "left" than the US: a more highly progressive tax system and redistribution of wealth manifest most clearly in the state's provision of education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc. Second, insofar as libertarians see taxation as theft/deprivation of property, its not so black and white on said rights either. Third, natural resources are a small part of the economy; but I doubt a highly educated, healthy, connected population are.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Rofl sweden is in the top 25 on all indexes in economic freedoms, economically they are certainly "neo-cons" far right capitalists bigot extremist fox viewers. norway on top 40 out of almost 200 countries in economic freedoms.
Find some charts, the more left you go economically, the poorer you end up.
@shining3210 sweden is a left-socialist country. to say that it is a country of "neocons far right capitalists bigot extremist fox viewers" is extremely false and ignorant. learn real world facts instead of making them up. you call swedish people bigots but you are the one who is "against" 22% of the world's population because of their religious-affiliation. no one wants to read your racist b.s.
A bigger welfare system does not mean that the country is socialist in economic terms.
Most western countries have welfare programs, but free markets. Socialist countries own the means of production (big corporations), have huge public sectors compared to the private ones, there are no significent economical freedoms etc etc. sweden does not fall into that category. Hell, corporate taxes are lower then in the u.s lol..
@shining3210 you're racist against 1/4 of all humans, you support a radical right-wing ideology, you think sweden is a right-wing country of neocons, etc, etc. you're either extremely ignorant or you're just trolling. probably the latter....
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Wow, i told you, im against all people that follow and practise radical extreme irrational and violent political ideologies. Islam falls in that group.
If sweden is socialist then why corporate tax rates are lower then those of the u.s?
You are ignorant for not also for not knowing simple facts, but for misinterpreting me.
@shining3210 being racist "against" 1/4 of all human beings is a weak argument. so is supporting a radical ideology that is more right-wing than George W. Bush...
@shining3210 you've used "statistics and proven economic theories" to prove that it is logic to hate 22% of all human beings? i am "brainwashed" and "ignorant" for not also hating nearly 1/4 of the population?
you are extremely ignorant and racist. spend less time hating others. you clearly know nothing of politics and just make up nonsense as you go along to justify your own bigotry...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk I hate evil ideologies, and people who believe practise and promote them, what is so hard to understand? You really should improve your intelligence.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well look at your country, go watch cbn news and hear pat robertson, and learn something about islam, you obviously dont know much.
@shining3210 i "obviously don't know much" about Islam because I don't share your radical racist viewpoint? “My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true. Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.” Bertrand Russell
@shining3210 "There is still racism, but its anti-Arab racism which is extreme ... When Jewish intellectuals who are regarded as humanist leaders say that Israel ought to settle the underpopulated Galilee—meaning too many Arabs, not enough Jews—that's considered wonderful. Violent anti-Arab racism is so prevalent that we don't even notice it ... It's in the cinema, advertising, everywhere. On the other hand, anti-Semitism is there, but very marginal.” Noam Chomsky
@shining3210 "There is still racism, but its anti-Arab racism which is extreme ... When Jewish intellectuals who are regarded as humanist leaders say that Israel ought to settle the underpopulated Galilee—meaning too many Arabs, not enough Jews—that's considered wonderful. Violent anti-Arab racism is so prevalent that we don't even notice it ... It's in the cinema, advertising, everywhere. On the other hand, anti-Semitism is there, but very marginal.” Noam Chomsky
@eshah100 Really free would mean no government to provide public services and products. - heritage. org if you wanna understand whats the meaning of more or less free market.. Absolute free is impossible anarchism.
@shining3210 The US might still have a "more or less free market" according to the definition of the Heritage Foundation, but you've obviously never been to Europe if you think that's true for all western democracies.
@eshah100 All western democratic countries enjoy economic freedoms including european ones. Spare me the stereotypes and go see the data. Theres a direct corelation between economic freedoms and prosperity, and the lack of them with poverty.
Not quite. there are other factors which are needed for prosperity than just "economic freedom", like e.g. a stable government which upholds clear property rights.
Your questions: "Why the left loves muslims so much? Why the left backs loves and supports isalmists so much?"
This proves how deluded, arrogant, and ignorant you are.
Then you comment, "You (meaning the rest of us here on Earth and not in outer space with him) are deteriorating to false personal accusations, sloganiring abd labeling."
And this guy says he's working on his second degree in economics. Sad and alarming.
@ResolutionismTube I think the ignorant one is you. You keep quoting me and calling me names, instead of talking to the point.
What do you know about islam? What of that i said wasnt true? Radical left wing marxists like you and chomsky are in bed with islam. Since when are facts, ignorant?
@shining3210 talking to what "point?" the "points" that you either completely make up or take straight from FOX propaganda? you know nothing of the history of Palestine and Israel other than what FOX tells you. according to your logic, the palestinian people did not exist before 1948. they've been a civilization for 1000s of years, not just since the mid-1900s. chomsky is "in bed with islam?" you'd make a great FOX talking head
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Wow, im not american, i dont watch or have FOX, answer any of my questions... Im from israel im sure i know 100x times more then you about the middle east, israel and palestine.
You are just talking non sense while blabbering about fox ...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk You claim palestine was a civilization for thousands of years, so answer my questions.. Atleast, what was their religion and language at the BEGINING..
@shining3210 palestinians have lived there for 1000s of years. the israel gov't has been there less than a century. israel steals palestinian lands (beyond official UN borders). israel forcibly relocated them (similar to US relocating Natives) and israel has been oppressing them since the state was formed. israel has enacted sanctions that have left 100,000s of people to starve to death. what religion palestinians were 1000 years ago is irrelevant and isnt justification for oppression today
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk You are some sort of a lie machine or what? everything you saud was a lie.
100 years ago there were both muslims christians and jews here, something like 300,000 people. Few tiny villages, and the place was mostly abandoned. Palestine is a hebrew name, and first palestinians were actually jews. 100,000 starved? thats a lie you cant prove. Stealing lands? the lands were taken after a defensive war and most were given back.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And theres no oppression, only reaction to aggression and terror. You watch islamic al-jazeera too much, and still you didnt answer non of my question.
Israel didnt relocate, 5 arabs countries started when israel was declared as a state, and asked palestinians to flee, cause they thought they are gonna flatten the newly created israel.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And since you never answered any of my questions? Try answering this last one..
The palestinians elected few years ago, a religious political party, which is also a terror organization, which calls to kill all jews worldwide, not only the ones in israel.
@shining3210 and israel government isn't a "religious political party?" they've certainly committed far more "terror" than the palestinians- not only against palestinians but against people in other nations like Jordan. palestinians are a people that has had their land taken by an occupying force that slaughters them and uses children as human meat shields, yet you feel the need to use doublespeak and portray the situation as the opposite of what is real
@shining3210 p.s. i'm getting tired of reading your racist rants. say more racist things about islamic people and then accuse me of "name-calling" for pointing our your racist remarks...
@shining3210 i am not interested in Googling any of the nonsense your recommend. i am not interested in disproving the 100s of false statements you've made point by point. i'm not interested in debating someone who is racist against 1.5 BILLION human beings simply because of their religious-affiliation. i'm not interested in talking to someone who just repeats right-wing propaganda over and over again. i'm not interested in debating someone who refuses to form a thought of their own
@shining3210 "And for the 10000000 times, islam is a political religious ideology (very hateful one), and not a race." i never said islam was a race. i said "islamic people." are they not people who are islamic? using your twisted logic, "christian people" is also wrong since christianity is not a race. if you're going to use semantics, at least get it right...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well im not against them all, im against those who are devoute religious people, because they promote evil 7th century backward ideas, and want us to live by those ideas and accept them. Who said im against all of them?
Im just saying chomsly is a terror supporter, since he justfies and excuse those acts, and more then that, even goes directly, meet and talk with the terrorists leaders.
That makes him one disgusting vile creature in my perspective.
@shining3210 you're only "against" islamic people who are "devoute?" okay, so you're only racist against 99.99% of them then. you're racist against 22% of the world population. christianity and judaism don't promote backwards ideas? a US president dropping bombs on a country and claiming he is doing "God's work" is not backward? homophobia is not backwards?
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk So by your logic, if im against NAZIS, or the "NAZI PEOPLE" its makes me a racist as well..
Or if im against murderers, im also a racist..
You make no sense. Im against evil ideologies, and people who follow, promote, and carry them. If thats, according to you, makes me a racist, then im proud to be one...
@shining3210 you're either really bad or really good at doublespeak. there is a difference between being against racist ideology, and being racist against 22% of the world's population simply because of their religious-affiliation. its funny that you bring up Nazis, since your ideology is so similar to theirs...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk My god, you are hopeless, deflecting and changing the subject everytime, instead of answering my questions and talking to the point.
You have no idea about any of the facts, you spread lies and false accusations, change the subject, attack me pesonally .. You are hopeless..
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And please, show me ONE muslim country, where MUSLIMS citizens enjoy more human rights, civil rights, economic rights then israel.
@shining3210 its rather hilarious that you speak of the great "civil rights" of a nation that forcibly segregates people by race similar to the US before the Civil Rights Act of 1964. doublespeak at its best...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Thats wrong, there are 1.5 million muslim arabs citizens in israel, including in the parliament, courts and any other field of the public life, enjoying the same rights as everyone else.
Palestinians are not israeli citizens, they have their own otonomy, laws, institutes and so on. As for their lands, there have been many offers by israel which consisted giving back almost 100% of the territory they claim as theirs, yet they refused all the times..
@shining3210 islamic people make up 22% of the world's population. end of story. none of the nonsense you claim to be fact will change that. obviously palestinians are not israeli citizens. french people of occupied France during WWII weren't German citizens either; what's your point?
you claim that israel has offered to give 100% of palestinian land back. i don't know where you get this stuff from; obvious you either make it up or listen to too many neocons...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Islamic people view humans as muslims and non-muslims (kuffars). They say non muslims either should be converted, pay infidels 50% tax, or be killed. Thats their religious view. Its a racist supremacist view. They dont allow their women to marry non muslims, if their males marry a non muslim female he must convert her to islam. Is that not a racist ideology just like the nazi one..?
@shining3210 i repeat: i am not interested in disproving the 100s of false statements you've made point by point. i'm not interested in debating someone who is racist against 1.5 BILLION human beings simply because of their religious-affiliation. i'm not interested in talking to someone who just repeats right-wing propaganda over and over again. i'm not interested in debating someone who refuses to form a thought of their own. i am not interested in your doublespeak
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk yes just to name two, 2000 camp david summit, taba summit and 5 more offers in the past which consisted almost 100% of the palestinians territorial demands...
You have no education or knowledge what so ever in the middle east conflict, yet you always claim somehow, that i dont know what im talking about.
Give me a break..
Just to burst your ignorant little bubble, this conflict is mostly religious and not territorial or national. Palestinians were part of jordan priot to 67
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Cont: Oh and please explain, why is that, that out of 22 current world conflicts, 21 involves muslims in one or both sides of the conflict....
I asked you so many questions, and you keep blabbering "Fox" "Racist" instead of actually answering/explaining even one of my questions..
@shining3210 explain to me why the US is involved in armed conflict all across the globe and why 99% of the world's weapons are buillt by US corporations and sold to dictatorships. explain why the US has never not been in conflict since WWII. actually don't explain, because you clearly cannot...
wow. I read that whole conversation between you two...and for a very brief moment, I almost thought I saw some glimmer of what was left of his intelligence in shining3210's arguments--but then he busted out his comments about chomsky siding with radical muslims, and meeting with terrorists etc...makes me laugh how sad this is... and then he went off to into outer space comparing radical muslims to hitler!...this makes me so sad it makes me sick...and then...
This guy is just trying to critisize economical policies which actually work, with dumb suggestions and excuses that have nothing to do with the big economic picture.
He should stick to going and licking dicatators and terrorists asses. His political agenda has nothing to do with a healthy working economic system rather just the opposite.
@shining3210 "His political agenda has nothing to do with a healthy working economic system rather just the opposite." his political agenda has /everything/ to do with a "healthy working economic system," unlike the political agenda of politicians like ron paul or economists like friedman
@shining3210 p.s. "This guy is just trying to critisize economical policies which actually work" actually works for who? certainly not the numerous children who die daily from US bombs, or the many people within our own borders who die because they cannot afford medical care
@shining3210 you want "free market?" go live where its actually exists- somewhere like somalia. i'm not interested in reading your regurgitated right-wing propaganda...
@ResolutionismTube Capitalism? The wealthiests societies are living in a capitalistic societies, what the hell are you talking about? If not for capitalism, i doubt you had a computer and internet to comment you delusional crap on.
Capitalistic? I guess those economics degrees were not in english...
Anyways, I think what you are meaning to talk about is State Capitalism. True capitalism has never been tried, just like communism. These two systems are on opposite ends of an economic spectrum, but no society has ever employed an economy that was purely one or purely the other.
@ResolutionismTube Yes they are two ends of the economic spectrum, pure capitalism cant work, thats obvious, but no one is talking about societies without governments taxes and so on. And yes, the u.s is the wealthest society in the world, by far, for decades now. Chomskys communism was tried in north korea, former ussr, cuba, venezuela, and so on and led to femine in giagantic scales. Equality is fictional, you cant pay every one the same for different skills products and services.
The founding father of economics/capitalism was Adam Smith--I'm sure you've heard of him since you are working on your 2nd degree in economics--Pure capitalism has never been tried. It might work, it's never been attempted. And if you don't know what I'm talking about you need to actually READ Adam Smith. He's widely credited amongst you economists, but he's not widely read, and that's why there is so much confusion.
Everyone knows about Smith's "Wealth of Nations" but before that he wrote a book called the "Theory of Moral Sentiments" in which he better described the role of the "invisible hand" and how it must lend a "helping hand."
So for example, what's going on right now in America is they are talking about how government intervention in the economy is a bad thing. Well, if you read Adam Smith, you would know that he would be rolling over in his grave if he heard us talking about that. What you're talking about, things like equality, wealth, and limited government intervention have nothing to do with economic theory, that's pure propaganda. And you're buying into the official party line.
@ResolutionismTube Adams smiths theory took into consideration, axioms which cannot be !!100%!! implemented in reality.
Theres not such thing a market without government, it cant work, you gotta be in the first grade to assume something like that. The role, responsibility, size of a government, and its intervention with the private sector are of course the main question. Any reliable economist will tell you that governments must be small and efficient, for many reasons.
@ResolutionismTube And inefficient due the political structure and the negative symptoms that it causes.
Politics has bad effects on economies, many books can be written about why and the reasons.. Thats why you should minimize those effects and intervene in the free market only when you observe a failure or a potential danger. The intevention itself must big as small as you can and efficient.
Sorry, I disagree. I think that markets are inefficient without more government intervention in the economy, and the philosophical and ideological forces that drive a free market are delusions.
@ResolutionismTube Well all emphirical evidnence shows models and theories proves that there is a big positive corelation between wealth and growth of wealth to small public sector and a free market, and vice versa..
Go take a statistical programs, and countries data, and do the math yourself.
@shining3210 Chomsky doesn't seem to be a communist in any true sense of the word. The mere fact that you lump all those states (which do have problems) under the guise of communism shows how misinformed you are. I am not defending those states however; I do understand the differences between them. Equality is not fictional to the extent that you must learn how to define it properly. It seems much more productive to speak of ameliorating inequality that the inverse.
@mikewtp Well then he is a marxist who cares really.. He is a radical extremist. A professional demagogue with a radical agenda.
And yes, your are right, equality is not fictional when everybody are poor the same way.
When it comes to modern societies, its is though. You wont pay the same for every product/service you want. You as a consumer have your own priorities, desires and needs, thus you create inequality everytime you purchase different things with different amount of money..
@shining3210 chomsky speaks truth. you speak regurgitated right-wing propaganda about how horrible social programs, environmental regulations, and industry/banking regulations are. have fun with your economics degree while you talk bad about chomsky- a harvard graduate who is a professor at massachusetts institute of technology...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Ha, he is not an econmics professor. 99% of the economic professors in the world will certainly disagree with this clown. But maybe they are also regurgitating right wing propoganda.. He is a clown with an agenda, and most of what he says is pseudo sophisticated propoganda.
@shining3210 if you love corporate tyranny and hate social programs and the well-being of society so much, go experience it your beloved "free market" for yourself in a country where it /actually/ exists- like Somalia. you do not know what a real free market or what real capitalism is- you just repeat what you hear on FOX...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk What does somalia has to do with a free market, when talking about a free market, no one is reffering to a market without a government, or economic anarchism. Somalia is a lawless chaotic religious jungle. Your analogy is way off point.
@shining3210 there is a free market in Somalia. there is certainly no free market in the US- the US has a state-corporate system. the "free market" that Ron Paul wants is a system in which unaccountable, private tyrannies have control of the system. he is a corporate candidate that is pro-corporate, anti-social program, anti-environmental regulation, anti-/banking regulation, anti-Civil Rights Act, anti-immigrants, etc. your ideology is radical right-wing
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No there isnt a free market in somalia. There are criterias for a free market to exist. Lack of government is not one of them. There is a role for government in the free market. When it comes to building infrastructure, police the market to prevent theft and foul play, allow free flow of goods and information and many others. Your perception of the free market as a chaotic lawless jungle (somlia) is wrong and ignorant.
@shining3210 you don't understand what a free market is because this state- "There is a role for government in the free market" - is 100% false. what you are explaining is state-corporate capitalism, /not/ a free market...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Cont: Im tottaly disagree with paul on many economical issues. Even on debt, since debt can be a lot of times a positive thing, depends on the purpose, size and effects of the debt. He usually dont really know what he is talking about especially on the absurd gold standard.
By the way, the right is anti ILLEGAL immigrants, are you pro criminals?
And i am a rationalist, labeling me as right or left or w/e doesnt mean much. I have different opinions on different subjects.
@shining3210 you call someone who does not support harsh and racist immigration laws a "pro criminal?" That is close-minded right-wing ideology. you say you disagree with some of Paul's "economic issues," but you don't seem to care about his anti-Civil Rights Act stance or his anti-environmental regulations stance. you may not know what right or left means, but you are radically to the right nonetheless...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No, if companies cause enviromental damages, then the government should stop them. There no question about it. Im not dogmatic like you, nor like paul. A free market economy isnt some kind of flawless magic, and it also doesnt mean it works like a charm. The theory says there will not be enviromental damage since there wont be any demand for such a thing, though sometimes the market doesnt respond in time, therefore you need the government to respond.
@shining3210 you legitimately think that a free market system "will not have environmental damage since there wont be any demand for such a thing?" do you not realize what an insane thing that is to say? according to your logic, once a free market is in place, all oil burning will vanish, all energy corporations will stop burning fuels, all nuclear plants will shut down, etc. You are just repeating perverse propaganda
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No but enviromental damages can be minimized. As you can see today, nuclear plants are made to be able to even resist earthquakes. Even cars bring "enviromental" damage since upon an accident they take lives and destroy property. But the demand for safe cars is there. You cant build 100% safe cars, but you can minimize the risks by building them safer. And the demand for safe products is obvious in theory.
@shining3210 a free market is a system in which businesses are completely free to do whatever they want- i.e. economic liberty. you say you want a free market, but then you described the characteristics of state-corporate capitalism and NOT a free market. learn the difference
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well if you are gonna go around like that, companies can be even free to kill and sell human organs, and cook them in resturants in the name of freedom.
You are missing the point of the "free market" or "market economy" if we will use a more proggressive term. In means minimal internevention and regulations, and smaller public sector.. Are you pro - big public sector?
@shining3210 government is the one institution that the people have the possibility to influence- you want a system run by the unaccountable wealthy oligarchs...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk First of all, rich people, become rich, either by lack of competition or by providing great value to society. Theres nothing wrong with corporations, nor with rich people. The idea of a free market also does not mean, lack of laws and government. The current political system is what causes the failure, because the rich become influencial by mingling and co-operating with the politicians. Its not an economic failure, but a political one which influence the economy...
@shining3210 Capitalism/market economy does not cause those things, its the political structure that do. Wealthy people use their wealth to dobate to politicans, bribe them, seduce them and so on to promote their own interests.. Its just comes to show you, governments often can cause more harm then good to the economy, and thats what the best economists will argue. Corruption comes from centerlized power, and it applies to economics as well when you give the government too much power.
@shining3210 corporations control the state-corporate system. somehow you think giving corporations more power and making the government (the one institution that people can influence as opposed to unaccountable, private tyrannies) powerless is going to make everything better. that will just make it that much easier for corporations like Nike to take advantage of entire populations like the Indonesians...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk If you let a starving man work a week, for a piece of bread, and therefore saving his life, is that immoral that you didnt give him more?
More then that, if he offers to work hard for a week, for just single piece of bread which will keep him alive, and you accpet the deal, does that make you an immoral person?
Do you think welfare states promote productivity? Wealth? Thats very far from the truth.
Read smiths theory about self interest and its contribution to society.
@shining3210 it is indeed immoral when a corporation (Monsanto) monopolizes the farming in a nation (India). if they did not intervene, the farmers could grow vast amounts of food for the people and no one would starve. instead Monsanto forces them to use overpriced seeds that expire after a year and alter the land so that only their chemically-altered seeds will work. Indians are forced into debt slavery and the food they do produce is shipped to the US- and Indians starve
@shining3210 it takes a lot of propaganda to get people to believe that wealthy people are only rich "by providing great value to society." tell that to the millions of people who have died by US arms. tell that to the people trapped in wage slavery in Indonesia to US corporations...
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Let me ask u a question. Lets say you draw a painting, one man comes and offer you 5$, another one offers you 1,000,000$, to whom will you sell the painting? Or you thing the government should determine the price of your painting..
@shining3210 there's a difference between a person making a painting and a corporation like Bechtel monopolizing the entire water supply including rain water in an entire nation (Bolivia). look at the real world instead of using meaningless analogies
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Bolivian water, belongs to the bolivian people.. If they as a group want to sell their rights of the water to a private company and lose their natural rights over the water, maybe its their decision to make. Might be a right or wrong one i dont really know, but each country has it own laws when it comes to economics moral and so on.. natural resources in private hands, can make them more money in a form of tax revenue then being in government hands. Economic profitability..
@shining3210 the Bolivian people certainly did not "as a group want to sell their rights of the water to a private company and lose their natural rights over the water." the US installs regimes that allow Western corporations to take advantage of the land and people, including trapping people in slavery all across the globe
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well then its a political matter, not economical. When it comes to economical, you can either have more income by giving the rights to the water to a foreign company and tax them, or keep it in government hands and make more income.
You calculate your profit from each option and choose.. Weather the bolivians wanted or not, thats a political issue. Maybe they enjoy from more income from the private foreign company. You cant rule that out completly without doing the math
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And notice all those south american governments, which chomsky is so fond of, with their ultra social economic policies, huge public sector and government. They are most corrupt and poor. Theres no incentive to produce when you are taxed to death or over regulated. And when you dont have rights to your own property. It never worked, and never will.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Just search in wikipedia for adam smith, and go to the section talking about "The Theory of Moral Sentiments". Read what he says about self interest. Thats the root cause of why capitalism works. Now no economic system is a flawless paradise, or an uthopia, but some just work better, thats the whole point.
@shining3210 p.s. instead of reading "wikipedia for adam smith," you should READ ACTUAL ADAM SMITH. he described a system of free markets only under a system on PERFECT LIBERTY. there is no perfect liberty in the system. you invoke someone without actually reading his writing; don't just read the Wikipedia summary.
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk As for adam smith, he assumed many things, thats irrelevant. His idea that self interest, unknowingly promotes the welfare of everybody is the issue.
You produce more when you have more freedom for your property, and when you produce more, and so is everyone else, prices go low, and production & wealth goes up.
Perfect liberty is an extreme term, i would prefer maximum or relative liberty.
@shining3210 instead of looking act actual events or real like you make very vague and general assumptions. "they [the bolivians] enjoy from more income from the private foreign company"- they don't, which is why the entire population protested and threw the corruption corporation out. Noam isnt "so fond of" south american governments; he points out how most of them were installed through brutal means by the US. they're corrupt because we overthrow democracies and install dictators
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk If the U.S installed dictators in south america (i dont think its true but i know nothing about it), then why dont those people overthrow their dictators?
More then that - you say "vague general assumptions", no they are not at all. Its one of the basics in economics - Economic profitability, you choose the option which will benefit you the most, and work hard calculating weather option A will will be more profitable then option B..
@shining3210 whether you believe it or not, the US has installed overthrow numerous democratic governments and brutally installed dictatorial regimes- all across the globe. you think its so easy for a population of peasants to overthrow a tyrannical regime installed by the US and given immense arms. your argument is as irrelevant as saying "why didn't the Jewish people overthrow their dictator?" as justification for the horrors of Nazi Germany. you're just repeating propaganda
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well i dont know, and i dont believe so. Every government on earth use it powers to influence other countries. They can finance opposition groups and so on. Im more then sure, other countries meddle with u.s politics as well, by financial means.
The question is why would the u.s, want all south american countries to be 3rd world, socialists, hell holes of countries.. What the does the u.s has to gain from that? And how they did that? Those countries hate the u.s btw...
@shining3210 its no secret that the US has overthrow democratic governments and installed brutal tyrannies that allowed the US to rob the nation's resources and labor- such as when the US and UK overthrew the Iranian government in 1954 because they nationalized their oil supply and stopped the UK corporation - the British Petroleum Company - from corruptly monopolizing the Iranian's resources. or when the Reagan admin created/armed death squads to take over the Nicaraguan government
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well, the u.s i heard, consumes 25% of the worlds petrolium, while its population is only 5% out of total.. The oil is the energy that runs the country and the economy of the u.s, no doubt. Its known that in the PAST most western nations occupied and took over other countries resources. Europe was even worse imo, but thats past politics.. Whats that has to do with capitalism/market economy? The soviets also conquered others and took stuff, and they werent capitalists..
@shining3210 so because the US uses a large amount of oil, it is okay for the US to violently overthrow a democratic government and replace it with a tyrannical dictatorship? using your logic, it would justified for India to invade the US and overthrow the government because they use a lot of oil. the US overthrows governments consistently and has not stopped- its not just something of the "PAST."
yes, the US has given large amounts of foreign aid- something Ron Paul wants to end
a*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 day ago
logical*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 2 days ago
Comment removed
mikewtp 4 days ago
Forget about net worth. The poor in this country have more than the middle class did in the 1960s. You can't consume pieces of paper, even if they have pictures of presidents on them. Only goods matter. And we have more today than we ever had before. Why is that not enough for people in this country?
rmcfad1 5 days ago
lol
ResolutionismTube 5 days ago
Wow. That was a shining example.
ResolutionismTube 6 days ago
Oh...you're from Israel. I get it now.
ResolutionismTube 6 days ago
@ResolutionismTube Your comment is racist.
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 that is not racist. Israeli citizens are heavily indoctrinated, similar to Americans. if someone say they "got it now" in reference to a war-hungry American, it would also make perfect sense and not be "racist." you are the one who has openly stated that you are "against" all "devout" islamic people- roughly 22% of all human beings...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Hmm im against people who truly believe, follow and practise, evil ideologies, if that makes me racist, then im a proud one.
Im only indoctrinated with what i learn at school - math physics english literature economics hebrew chemestry and so on .. Im a rationalist, and a free thinker, not dogmatic like you. I examine evidence and conclude to the best of my knowledge.
The palestinians teach their kids that jews are apes and pigs and should be killed..Not israels..
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And how come i, as an israel is "war hungry" when you look at the evidence, israel never opened a war on no country, yet arab neighbors opened many wars of extermination uppon israel and lost. How come israel is war hungry, when all the wars it participated in, were purely wars of self defence against aggression.
Do you read history? Or just watch stalinist or jihadis networks?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 i'm not going to feed the troll (aka i still have no interest in debating someone who is "against" 22% of the population of the world because of their religious-affiliation
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Im against any population that which calls to impose their religious set of beliefs on all of humanity. Anyone who indorses this islamic belief, that me you and the rest of humanity should convert to islam, or suffer the consequences, im against him. Im against imposing radical violent tottalitarian beliefs on others. If thats 22% of the worlds population, then yes, im against them.. Whats so hard to understand, unless you plan of converting to islam in the future..
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 (cont) Ok im wasting my time as well, seems you dont have a clue about anything.. All you know is U.S bad, Israel bad, Capitalism bad, Fox fox fox, racist racist blah blah blah, yet reality and facts seems to be way beyond you..
Open your mind and educate yourself before reaching conclusions.
Bye!
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 typical right-winger bigot: talking down to people who don't have an equally radical and tyrannically ideology. everything you've said is false...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Everything i said was truth, you probably suffer from the single digit IQ syndrom like most of stalins and chomsky fans.
No clue about religions, no clue about economics, no clue about history, just blabbering "Fox Fox racist bigot right wing propoganda". Pretty pathetic.
Go kiss terrorists asses, and starve millions to death comrade.
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 you're a neocon bigot: end of story...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Better then being a bolshevik murderer. Or just as lenin said, useful idiot.
Now lets do a little thing that can shortcut your brain a little which is called math -
Your marxist ideology led to the murder and startvation of over 100 million people in 120 years.
Your muslim bodies "jihad" led to the death of (estimates) 280-380 million people in 1400 years.
You two loving groups even by far passed the nazis in terms of genocide, so i dont think your judgement really matters.
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 mad?
yes, everyone who doesn't share your radical right-wing ideology is a "Bolshevik murderer." i'm 120 years old. busted?
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Sure marxist.. If you love marxism and commonism so much why arent you leaving the u.s which you hate so much?
Your extreme left wing ideas have been implemented in north korea, cuba, venezuela etc.. Immigrate there for some "equality" and "social justice".. Or better yet, go live with your "oppressed" jihadis friends in iran or egypt.
Hypocrite.
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 correct again: i'm a 120 year old "marxist" "Bolshevik murderer." you got me. i also shot lincoln
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@shining3210 p.s. you clearly do not know what "left" means. norway and sweden are left, not north korea. i don't know where you get these fabrications from. FOX News pundits aren't even stupid enough to call North Korea on the left...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Oh you mean those two countries which became so filled with muslims that jews are feeling in mases? Or which their welfare systems are about to crash?
Or the norway which belongs to nato, and participate in every war with the u.s?
You mean economical left? Cultural? Whats the difference between the u.s, and both of those countries in terms of government size, economics culture and so on? And why arent you moving there if they are better then the u.s?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 Welfare system about to crash? Sweden has one of the most secure economies of any western democracy: a surplus and thriving industry. Sure the influx of different cultures and growth of antisemitism have caused issues but these are marginal; look at how much higher rates of violent crime, homicide, inequality, social distrust, etc are in the US for real problems.
DGMW I love the US, but i DID leave.
btw, moving to Sweden requires a job placement, citizenship, or refugee status
cknwngonstrng 5 days ago
@cknwngonstrng You cant take the economic/legislative model of a tiny country and implement it on a huge one, and have equal results.
Whats works for sweden in terms of tax burden , wont work in bigger economies..
And the crime rates/inequality in iran and north korea are also way lower then those of the u.s.. You want to implement their economical models because of that?
shining3210 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shining3210 Saying something won't work just because another state is larger/ smaller is ludicrous. Crime, healthcare, education still come down to policy. Adopting successful models for your state is pragmatic and intelligent. Of course not all states are the same, but that does not mean models cannot be moulded. Also, a higher GDP per capita amongst other developed states does not mean higher standards of living, education, less crime, and ... in the US ... happiness. What would you prefer?
mikewtp 4 days ago
@cknwngonstrng And considering left and right - Sweden corporate tax rate : 26%
U.s corporate tax rate : 35%
Economically speaking, sweden, in major factors, can be considered even more "right winged" then the u.s., not to mention socialized countries.
Economic freedoms are the key to a country's succes (ruling out countries with enormous natural resources). A good welfare system can be maintained only by a big free private sector. Economics is all about balancing..
shining3210 5 days ago
@shining3210 your bullshiting.
doddsalfa 4 days ago
@doddsalfa About what? Go check the data, do the math and figure it out for yourself..
Google is your friend
shining3210 4 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And sweden and norway dont have international "Corporations" which hire people in china and other places for low salaries?
They dont have "capitalism", free trade, rights for property and so on?
Per capita, they have more natural resources then the u.s by far, so it might be easier for them to provide a better "welfare" to their tiny populations, so how the hell they are to the "left" in comparison the the u.s?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 First, some pretty clear ways in which Sweden is more "left" than the US: a more highly progressive tax system and redistribution of wealth manifest most clearly in the state's provision of education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc. Second, insofar as libertarians see taxation as theft/deprivation of property, its not so black and white on said rights either. Third, natural resources are a small part of the economy; but I doubt a highly educated, healthy, connected population are.
cknwngonstrng 5 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Rofl sweden is in the top 25 on all indexes in economic freedoms, economically they are certainly "neo-cons" far right capitalists bigot extremist fox viewers. norway on top 40 out of almost 200 countries in economic freedoms.
Find some charts, the more left you go economically, the poorer you end up.
Chomsky wont tell you that..
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 sweden is a left-socialist country. to say that it is a country of "neocons far right capitalists bigot extremist fox viewers" is extremely false and ignorant. learn real world facts instead of making them up. you call swedish people bigots but you are the one who is "against" 22% of the world's population because of their religious-affiliation. no one wants to read your racist b.s.
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 4 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk The economical data does not confirm your statement.
A bigger welfare system does not mean that the country is socialist in economic terms.
Most western countries have welfare programs, but free markets. Socialist countries own the means of production (big corporations), have huge public sectors compared to the private ones, there are no significent economical freedoms etc etc. sweden does not fall into that category. Hell, corporate taxes are lower then in the u.s lol..
shining3210 4 days ago
@shining3210 you're racist against 1/4 of all humans, you support a radical right-wing ideology, you think sweden is a right-wing country of neocons, etc, etc. you're either extremely ignorant or you're just trolling. probably the latter....
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 4 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Wow, i told you, im against all people that follow and practise radical extreme irrational and violent political ideologies. Islam falls in that group.
If sweden is socialist then why corporate tax rates are lower then those of the u.s?
You are ignorant for not also for not knowing simple facts, but for misinterpreting me.
shining3210 4 days ago
@shining3210 you're racist. the end...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 4 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Name calling is a sign of a weak argument. the end..
shining3210 4 days ago
@shining3210 being racist "against" 1/4 of all human beings is a weak argument. so is supporting a radical ideology that is more right-wing than George W. Bush...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 3 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk p.s. getting the last word in doesn't make you "win" when everything you've said is racist, right-wing rhetoric...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 3 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And? Better being a communist traitor to your country?
Go live in cuba dude..
shining3210 3 days ago
@shining3210 everything you say is close-minded rhetoric/propaganda...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 3 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Like what? I just brough statistics and proven economic theories. You are a brainwashed ignorant person for ignoring facts.
shining3210 3 days ago
@shining3210 you've used "statistics and proven economic theories" to prove that it is logic to hate 22% of all human beings? i am "brainwashed" and "ignorant" for not also hating nearly 1/4 of the population?
you are extremely ignorant and racist. spend less time hating others. you clearly know nothing of politics and just make up nonsense as you go along to justify your own bigotry...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 2 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk I hate evil ideologies, and people who believe practise and promote them, what is so hard to understand? You really should improve your intelligence.
shining3210 2 days ago
@shining3210 ignorant racism...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 2 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk So i guess you love nazis and terrorists, just because you are not a racist.
shining3210 2 days ago
@shining3210 anyone who isn't as racist against 1/4 of all human beings must "love nazis and terrorists?" wow. pathetic...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 day ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well look at your country, go watch cbn news and hear pat robertson, and learn something about islam, you obviously dont know much.
shining3210 1 day ago
@shining3210 i "obviously don't know much" about Islam because I don't share your radical racist viewpoint? “My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true. Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.” Bertrand Russell
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 day ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk So you hate all religions? thats being racist to 90% of the worlds population.
Racist!
shining3210 1 day ago
@shining3210 "There is still racism, but its anti-Arab racism which is extreme ... When Jewish intellectuals who are regarded as humanist leaders say that Israel ought to settle the underpopulated Galilee—meaning too many Arabs, not enough Jews—that's considered wonderful. Violent anti-Arab racism is so prevalent that we don't even notice it ... It's in the cinema, advertising, everywhere. On the other hand, anti-Semitism is there, but very marginal.” Noam Chomsky
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 22 hours ago
@shining3210 p.s. you make false assumptions and use rhetoric. i don't "hate" anyone nor did i say anything that would lead anyone to believe that...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 22 hours ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Do you hate nazis?
shining3210 21 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shining3210 "There is still racism, but its anti-Arab racism which is extreme ... When Jewish intellectuals who are regarded as humanist leaders say that Israel ought to settle the underpopulated Galilee—meaning too many Arabs, not enough Jews—that's considered wonderful. Violent anti-Arab racism is so prevalent that we don't even notice it ... It's in the cinema, advertising, everywhere. On the other hand, anti-Semitism is there, but very marginal.” Noam Chomsky
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 10 hours ago
@shining3210 "Most western countries have [...] free markets."
Freer than in full-fledged socialisms, yes.
But not really free.
eshah100 3 days ago
@eshah100 Really free would mean no government to provide public services and products. - heritage. org if you wanna understand whats the meaning of more or less free market.. Absolute free is impossible anarchism.
shining3210 3 days ago
@shining3210 The US might still have a "more or less free market" according to the definition of the Heritage Foundation, but you've obviously never been to Europe if you think that's true for all western democracies.
eshah100 3 days ago
@eshah100 All western democratic countries enjoy economic freedoms including european ones. Spare me the stereotypes and go see the data. Theres a direct corelation between economic freedoms and prosperity, and the lack of them with poverty.
shining3210 2 days ago
@shining3210 "Theres a direct corelation [...]"
Not quite. there are other factors which are needed for prosperity than just "economic freedom", like e.g. a stable government which upholds clear property rights.
eshah100 2 days ago
@eshah100 Economic freedoms do not contradict and stable responsible government, doh..
shining3210 2 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk
Did you see his channel?
ResolutionismTube 6 days ago
@ResolutionismTube endtimestoday. com
Go to the videos and see your friends there.
shining3210 6 days ago
@ResolutionismTube i didn't see it. we're both definitely wasting our time trying to talk to a right-wing bigot
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
The Rabid right are spamming this thread. Their holy cow of Reagan is under attack.
AdamDLDixon 6 days ago
nonsense you*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@shining3210 ...
Your questions: "Why the left loves muslims so much? Why the left backs loves and supports isalmists so much?"
This proves how deluded, arrogant, and ignorant you are.
Then you comment, "You (meaning the rest of us here on Earth and not in outer space with him) are deteriorating to false personal accusations, sloganiring abd labeling."
And this guy says he's working on his second degree in economics. Sad and alarming.
ResolutionismTube 6 days ago
@ResolutionismTube I think the ignorant one is you. You keep quoting me and calling me names, instead of talking to the point.
What do you know about islam? What of that i said wasnt true? Radical left wing marxists like you and chomsky are in bed with islam. Since when are facts, ignorant?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 talking to what "point?" the "points" that you either completely make up or take straight from FOX propaganda? you know nothing of the history of Palestine and Israel other than what FOX tells you. according to your logic, the palestinian people did not exist before 1948. they've been a civilization for 1000s of years, not just since the mid-1900s. chomsky is "in bed with islam?" you'd make a great FOX talking head
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Wow, im not american, i dont watch or have FOX, answer any of my questions... Im from israel im sure i know 100x times more then you about the middle east, israel and palestine.
You are just talking non sense while blabbering about fox ...
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 whatever helps you sleep at night...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk You claim palestine was a civilization for thousands of years, so answer my questions.. Atleast, what was their religion and language at the BEGINING..
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 palestinians have lived there for 1000s of years. the israel gov't has been there less than a century. israel steals palestinian lands (beyond official UN borders). israel forcibly relocated them (similar to US relocating Natives) and israel has been oppressing them since the state was formed. israel has enacted sanctions that have left 100,000s of people to starve to death. what religion palestinians were 1000 years ago is irrelevant and isnt justification for oppression today
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk You are some sort of a lie machine or what? everything you saud was a lie.
100 years ago there were both muslims christians and jews here, something like 300,000 people. Few tiny villages, and the place was mostly abandoned. Palestine is a hebrew name, and first palestinians were actually jews. 100,000 starved? thats a lie you cant prove. Stealing lands? the lands were taken after a defensive war and most were given back.
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And theres no oppression, only reaction to aggression and terror. You watch islamic al-jazeera too much, and still you didnt answer non of my question.
Israel didnt relocate, 5 arabs countries started when israel was declared as a state, and asked palestinians to flee, cause they thought they are gonna flatten the newly created israel.
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Watch this - youtube. com/watch?v=tPQBRMxZc5w
Watch this as well - youtube. com/watch?v=g_3A6_qSBBQ&
You are spreading inaccurate lies.
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And since you never answered any of my questions? Try answering this last one..
The palestinians elected few years ago, a religious political party, which is also a terror organization, which calls to kill all jews worldwide, not only the ones in israel.
Can you explain this?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 and israel government isn't a "religious political party?" they've certainly committed far more "terror" than the palestinians- not only against palestinians but against people in other nations like Jordan. palestinians are a people that has had their land taken by an occupying force that slaughters them and uses children as human meat shields, yet you feel the need to use doublespeak and portray the situation as the opposite of what is real
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@shining3210 p.s. i'm getting tired of reading your racist rants. say more racist things about islamic people and then accuse me of "name-calling" for pointing our your racist remarks...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Google, bare naked islam, watch the videos, and see what your dear unracist fellows are doing globaly.
I'll stop arguing with you since you just repeat same old out of context al-quida lies.
And for the 10000000 times, islam is a political religious ideology (very hateful one), and not a race.
Adios!
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 i am not interested in Googling any of the nonsense your recommend. i am not interested in disproving the 100s of false statements you've made point by point. i'm not interested in debating someone who is racist against 1.5 BILLION human beings simply because of their religious-affiliation. i'm not interested in talking to someone who just repeats right-wing propaganda over and over again. i'm not interested in debating someone who refuses to form a thought of their own
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@shining3210 "And for the 10000000 times, islam is a political religious ideology (very hateful one), and not a race." i never said islam was a race. i said "islamic people." are they not people who are islamic? using your twisted logic, "christian people" is also wrong since christianity is not a race. if you're going to use semantics, at least get it right...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well im not against them all, im against those who are devoute religious people, because they promote evil 7th century backward ideas, and want us to live by those ideas and accept them. Who said im against all of them?
Im just saying chomsly is a terror supporter, since he justfies and excuse those acts, and more then that, even goes directly, meet and talk with the terrorists leaders.
That makes him one disgusting vile creature in my perspective.
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 you're only "against" islamic people who are "devoute?" okay, so you're only racist against 99.99% of them then. you're racist against 22% of the world population. christianity and judaism don't promote backwards ideas? a US president dropping bombs on a country and claiming he is doing "God's work" is not backward? homophobia is not backwards?
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk So by your logic, if im against NAZIS, or the "NAZI PEOPLE" its makes me a racist as well..
Or if im against murderers, im also a racist..
You make no sense. Im against evil ideologies, and people who follow, promote, and carry them. If thats, according to you, makes me a racist, then im proud to be one...
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 you're either really bad or really good at doublespeak. there is a difference between being against racist ideology, and being racist against 22% of the world's population simply because of their religious-affiliation. its funny that you bring up Nazis, since your ideology is so similar to theirs...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk My god, you are hopeless, deflecting and changing the subject everytime, instead of answering my questions and talking to the point.
You have no idea about any of the facts, you spread lies and false accusations, change the subject, attack me pesonally .. You are hopeless..
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And please, show me ONE muslim country, where MUSLIMS citizens enjoy more human rights, civil rights, economic rights then israel.
I DARE YOU
There are 56 muslim countries btw, give me ONE...
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 its rather hilarious that you speak of the great "civil rights" of a nation that forcibly segregates people by race similar to the US before the Civil Rights Act of 1964. doublespeak at its best...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Thats wrong, there are 1.5 million muslim arabs citizens in israel, including in the parliament, courts and any other field of the public life, enjoying the same rights as everyone else.
Palestinians are not israeli citizens, they have their own otonomy, laws, institutes and so on. As for their lands, there have been many offers by israel which consisted giving back almost 100% of the territory they claim as theirs, yet they refused all the times..
How do you explain that?
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 islamic people make up 22% of the world's population. end of story. none of the nonsense you claim to be fact will change that. obviously palestinians are not israeli citizens. french people of occupied France during WWII weren't German citizens either; what's your point?
you claim that israel has offered to give 100% of palestinian land back. i don't know where you get this stuff from; obvious you either make it up or listen to too many neocons...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Islamic people view humans as muslims and non-muslims (kuffars). They say non muslims either should be converted, pay infidels 50% tax, or be killed. Thats their religious view. Its a racist supremacist view. They dont allow their women to marry non muslims, if their males marry a non muslim female he must convert her to islam. Is that not a racist ideology just like the nazi one..?
Im a racist for objecting racism?
shining3210 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shining3210 i repeat: i am not interested in disproving the 100s of false statements you've made point by point. i'm not interested in debating someone who is racist against 1.5 BILLION human beings simply because of their religious-affiliation. i'm not interested in talking to someone who just repeats right-wing propaganda over and over again. i'm not interested in debating someone who refuses to form a thought of their own. i am not interested in your doublespeak
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk yes just to name two, 2000 camp david summit, taba summit and 5 more offers in the past which consisted almost 100% of the palestinians territorial demands...
You have no education or knowledge what so ever in the middle east conflict, yet you always claim somehow, that i dont know what im talking about.
Give me a break..
Just to burst your ignorant little bubble, this conflict is mostly religious and not territorial or national. Palestinians were part of jordan priot to 67
shining3210 6 days ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Cont: Oh and please explain, why is that, that out of 22 current world conflicts, 21 involves muslims in one or both sides of the conflict....
I asked you so many questions, and you keep blabbering "Fox" "Racist" instead of actually answering/explaining even one of my questions..
shining3210 6 days ago
@shining3210 explain to me why the US is involved in armed conflict all across the globe and why 99% of the world's weapons are buillt by US corporations and sold to dictatorships. explain why the US has never not been in conflict since WWII. actually don't explain, because you clearly cannot...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 6 days ago
wow. I read that whole conversation between you two...and for a very brief moment, I almost thought I saw some glimmer of what was left of his intelligence in shining3210's arguments--but then he busted out his comments about chomsky siding with radical muslims, and meeting with terrorists etc...makes me laugh how sad this is... and then he went off to into outer space comparing radical muslims to hitler!...this makes me so sad it makes me sick...and then...
ResolutionismTube 6 days ago
US-backed*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
would be justified*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
has overthrown*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
corrupt corporation* arg
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
real life*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
looking at*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
because this statement*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
experience your*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
where it*
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
This guy is just trying to critisize economical policies which actually work, with dumb suggestions and excuses that have nothing to do with the big economic picture.
He should stick to going and licking dicatators and terrorists asses. His political agenda has nothing to do with a healthy working economic system rather just the opposite.
shining3210 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shining3210 "His political agenda has nothing to do with a healthy working economic system rather just the opposite." his political agenda has /everything/ to do with a "healthy working economic system," unlike the political agenda of politicians like ron paul or economists like friedman
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@shining3210 p.s. "This guy is just trying to critisize economical policies which actually work" actually works for who? certainly not the numerous children who die daily from US bombs, or the many people within our own borders who die because they cannot afford medical care
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk You want medical care? its free in cuba venezuela etc etc.
Go live there where chomskies ideas were implemented, if you think he is so right.
He is a radical demagogue, talking non sense which only uneducated fools fall for.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 you want "free market?" go live where its actually exists- somewhere like somalia. i'm not interested in reading your regurgitated right-wing propaganda...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Lol propoganda? im working on a second degree in econmics.
If anything is propoganda, its chomsky. Truely pathetic that people fall for his crap. Lack of intelligence and knowledge..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210
A degree in economics is a degree in capitalism.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@ResolutionismTube Capitalism? The wealthiests societies are living in a capitalistic societies, what the hell are you talking about? If not for capitalism, i doubt you had a computer and internet to comment you delusional crap on.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210
Capitalistic? I guess those economics degrees were not in english...
Anyways, I think what you are meaning to talk about is State Capitalism. True capitalism has never been tried, just like communism. These two systems are on opposite ends of an economic spectrum, but no society has ever employed an economy that was purely one or purely the other.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@ResolutionismTube Yes they are two ends of the economic spectrum, pure capitalism cant work, thats obvious, but no one is talking about societies without governments taxes and so on. And yes, the u.s is the wealthest society in the world, by far, for decades now. Chomskys communism was tried in north korea, former ussr, cuba, venezuela, and so on and led to femine in giagantic scales. Equality is fictional, you cant pay every one the same for different skills products and services.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210
The founding father of economics/capitalism was Adam Smith--I'm sure you've heard of him since you are working on your 2nd degree in economics--Pure capitalism has never been tried. It might work, it's never been attempted. And if you don't know what I'm talking about you need to actually READ Adam Smith. He's widely credited amongst you economists, but he's not widely read, and that's why there is so much confusion.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@shining3210
Everyone knows about Smith's "Wealth of Nations" but before that he wrote a book called the "Theory of Moral Sentiments" in which he better described the role of the "invisible hand" and how it must lend a "helping hand."
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@shining3210
So for example, what's going on right now in America is they are talking about how government intervention in the economy is a bad thing. Well, if you read Adam Smith, you would know that he would be rolling over in his grave if he heard us talking about that. What you're talking about, things like equality, wealth, and limited government intervention have nothing to do with economic theory, that's pure propaganda. And you're buying into the official party line.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@ResolutionismTube Adams smiths theory took into consideration, axioms which cannot be !!100%!! implemented in reality.
Theres not such thing a market without government, it cant work, you gotta be in the first grade to assume something like that. The role, responsibility, size of a government, and its intervention with the private sector are of course the main question. Any reliable economist will tell you that governments must be small and efficient, for many reasons.
Now they are big and-cont
shining3210 1 week ago
@ResolutionismTube And inefficient due the political structure and the negative symptoms that it causes.
Politics has bad effects on economies, many books can be written about why and the reasons.. Thats why you should minimize those effects and intervene in the free market only when you observe a failure or a potential danger. The intevention itself must big as small as you can and efficient.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210
Sorry, I disagree. I think that markets are inefficient without more government intervention in the economy, and the philosophical and ideological forces that drive a free market are delusions.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@ResolutionismTube Well all emphirical evidnence shows models and theories proves that there is a big positive corelation between wealth and growth of wealth to small public sector and a free market, and vice versa..
Go take a statistical programs, and countries data, and do the math yourself.
Talk is cheap..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 Chomsky doesn't seem to be a communist in any true sense of the word. The mere fact that you lump all those states (which do have problems) under the guise of communism shows how misinformed you are. I am not defending those states however; I do understand the differences between them. Equality is not fictional to the extent that you must learn how to define it properly. It seems much more productive to speak of ameliorating inequality that the inverse.
mikewtp 1 week ago
@mikewtp
Well said.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@mikewtp Well then he is a marxist who cares really.. He is a radical extremist. A professional demagogue with a radical agenda.
And yes, your are right, equality is not fictional when everybody are poor the same way.
When it comes to modern societies, its is though. You wont pay the same for every product/service you want. You as a consumer have your own priorities, desires and needs, thus you create inequality everytime you purchase different things with different amount of money..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210
Also, by the wealthiest societies, I hope you don't mean America.
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@shining3210 chomsky speaks truth. you speak regurgitated right-wing propaganda about how horrible social programs, environmental regulations, and industry/banking regulations are. have fun with your economics degree while you talk bad about chomsky- a harvard graduate who is a professor at massachusetts institute of technology...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk
lol
ResolutionismTube 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Ha, he is not an econmics professor. 99% of the economic professors in the world will certainly disagree with this clown. But maybe they are also regurgitating right wing propoganda.. He is a clown with an agenda, and most of what he says is pseudo sophisticated propoganda.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 if you love corporate tyranny and hate social programs and the well-being of society so much, go experience it your beloved "free market" for yourself in a country where it /actually/ exists- like Somalia. you do not know what a real free market or what real capitalism is- you just repeat what you hear on FOX...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk What does somalia has to do with a free market, when talking about a free market, no one is reffering to a market without a government, or economic anarchism. Somalia is a lawless chaotic religious jungle. Your analogy is way off point.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 there is a free market in Somalia. there is certainly no free market in the US- the US has a state-corporate system. the "free market" that Ron Paul wants is a system in which unaccountable, private tyrannies have control of the system. he is a corporate candidate that is pro-corporate, anti-social program, anti-environmental regulation, anti-/banking regulation, anti-Civil Rights Act, anti-immigrants, etc. your ideology is radical right-wing
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No there isnt a free market in somalia. There are criterias for a free market to exist. Lack of government is not one of them. There is a role for government in the free market. When it comes to building infrastructure, police the market to prevent theft and foul play, allow free flow of goods and information and many others. Your perception of the free market as a chaotic lawless jungle (somlia) is wrong and ignorant.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 you don't understand what a free market is because this state- "There is a role for government in the free market" - is 100% false. what you are explaining is state-corporate capitalism, /not/ a free market...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@shining3210 p.s. before you call someone "ignorant," at least know what it is you're trying to talk about...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Cont: Im tottaly disagree with paul on many economical issues. Even on debt, since debt can be a lot of times a positive thing, depends on the purpose, size and effects of the debt. He usually dont really know what he is talking about especially on the absurd gold standard.
By the way, the right is anti ILLEGAL immigrants, are you pro criminals?
And i am a rationalist, labeling me as right or left or w/e doesnt mean much. I have different opinions on different subjects.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 you call someone who does not support harsh and racist immigration laws a "pro criminal?" That is close-minded right-wing ideology. you say you disagree with some of Paul's "economic issues," but you don't seem to care about his anti-Civil Rights Act stance or his anti-environmental regulations stance. you may not know what right or left means, but you are radically to the right nonetheless...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No, if companies cause enviromental damages, then the government should stop them. There no question about it. Im not dogmatic like you, nor like paul. A free market economy isnt some kind of flawless magic, and it also doesnt mean it works like a charm. The theory says there will not be enviromental damage since there wont be any demand for such a thing, though sometimes the market doesnt respond in time, therefore you need the government to respond.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 you legitimately think that a free market system "will not have environmental damage since there wont be any demand for such a thing?" do you not realize what an insane thing that is to say? according to your logic, once a free market is in place, all oil burning will vanish, all energy corporations will stop burning fuels, all nuclear plants will shut down, etc. You are just repeating perverse propaganda
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk No but enviromental damages can be minimized. As you can see today, nuclear plants are made to be able to even resist earthquakes. Even cars bring "enviromental" damage since upon an accident they take lives and destroy property. But the demand for safe cars is there. You cant build 100% safe cars, but you can minimize the risks by building them safer. And the demand for safe products is obvious in theory.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 a free market is a system in which businesses are completely free to do whatever they want- i.e. economic liberty. you say you want a free market, but then you described the characteristics of state-corporate capitalism and NOT a free market. learn the difference
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well if you are gonna go around like that, companies can be even free to kill and sell human organs, and cook them in resturants in the name of freedom.
You are missing the point of the "free market" or "market economy" if we will use a more proggressive term. In means minimal internevention and regulations, and smaller public sector.. Are you pro - big public sector?
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 government is the one institution that the people have the possibility to influence- you want a system run by the unaccountable wealthy oligarchs...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk First of all, rich people, become rich, either by lack of competition or by providing great value to society. Theres nothing wrong with corporations, nor with rich people. The idea of a free market also does not mean, lack of laws and government. The current political system is what causes the failure, because the rich become influencial by mingling and co-operating with the politicians. Its not an economic failure, but a political one which influence the economy...
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 Capitalism/market economy does not cause those things, its the political structure that do. Wealthy people use their wealth to dobate to politicans, bribe them, seduce them and so on to promote their own interests.. Its just comes to show you, governments often can cause more harm then good to the economy, and thats what the best economists will argue. Corruption comes from centerlized power, and it applies to economics as well when you give the government too much power.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 corporations control the state-corporate system. somehow you think giving corporations more power and making the government (the one institution that people can influence as opposed to unaccountable, private tyrannies) powerless is going to make everything better. that will just make it that much easier for corporations like Nike to take advantage of entire populations like the Indonesians...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk If you let a starving man work a week, for a piece of bread, and therefore saving his life, is that immoral that you didnt give him more?
More then that, if he offers to work hard for a week, for just single piece of bread which will keep him alive, and you accpet the deal, does that make you an immoral person?
Do you think welfare states promote productivity? Wealth? Thats very far from the truth.
Read smiths theory about self interest and its contribution to society.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 it is indeed immoral when a corporation (Monsanto) monopolizes the farming in a nation (India). if they did not intervene, the farmers could grow vast amounts of food for the people and no one would starve. instead Monsanto forces them to use overpriced seeds that expire after a year and alter the land so that only their chemically-altered seeds will work. Indians are forced into debt slavery and the food they do produce is shipped to the US- and Indians starve
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@shining3210 it takes a lot of propaganda to get people to believe that wealthy people are only rich "by providing great value to society." tell that to the millions of people who have died by US arms. tell that to the people trapped in wage slavery in Indonesia to US corporations...
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Let me ask u a question. Lets say you draw a painting, one man comes and offer you 5$, another one offers you 1,000,000$, to whom will you sell the painting? Or you thing the government should determine the price of your painting..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 there's a difference between a person making a painting and a corporation like Bechtel monopolizing the entire water supply including rain water in an entire nation (Bolivia). look at the real world instead of using meaningless analogies
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Bolivian water, belongs to the bolivian people.. If they as a group want to sell their rights of the water to a private company and lose their natural rights over the water, maybe its their decision to make. Might be a right or wrong one i dont really know, but each country has it own laws when it comes to economics moral and so on.. natural resources in private hands, can make them more money in a form of tax revenue then being in government hands. Economic profitability..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 the Bolivian people certainly did not "as a group want to sell their rights of the water to a private company and lose their natural rights over the water." the US installs regimes that allow Western corporations to take advantage of the land and people, including trapping people in slavery all across the globe
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well then its a political matter, not economical. When it comes to economical, you can either have more income by giving the rights to the water to a foreign company and tax them, or keep it in government hands and make more income.
You calculate your profit from each option and choose.. Weather the bolivians wanted or not, thats a political issue. Maybe they enjoy from more income from the private foreign company. You cant rule that out completly without doing the math
shining3210 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk And notice all those south american governments, which chomsky is so fond of, with their ultra social economic policies, huge public sector and government. They are most corrupt and poor. Theres no incentive to produce when you are taxed to death or over regulated. And when you dont have rights to your own property. It never worked, and never will.
shining3210 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Just search in wikipedia for adam smith, and go to the section talking about "The Theory of Moral Sentiments". Read what he says about self interest. Thats the root cause of why capitalism works. Now no economic system is a flawless paradise, or an uthopia, but some just work better, thats the whole point.
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 p.s. instead of reading "wikipedia for adam smith," you should READ ACTUAL ADAM SMITH. he described a system of free markets only under a system on PERFECT LIBERTY. there is no perfect liberty in the system. you invoke someone without actually reading his writing; don't just read the Wikipedia summary.
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk As for adam smith, he assumed many things, thats irrelevant. His idea that self interest, unknowingly promotes the welfare of everybody is the issue.
You produce more when you have more freedom for your property, and when you produce more, and so is everyone else, prices go low, and production & wealth goes up.
Perfect liberty is an extreme term, i would prefer maximum or relative liberty.
shining3210 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Sorry, look for the part of self interest in the section about the wealth of nations..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 instead of looking act actual events or real like you make very vague and general assumptions. "they [the bolivians] enjoy from more income from the private foreign company"- they don't, which is why the entire population protested and threw the corruption corporation out. Noam isnt "so fond of" south american governments; he points out how most of them were installed through brutal means by the US. they're corrupt because we overthrow democracies and install dictators
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk If the U.S installed dictators in south america (i dont think its true but i know nothing about it), then why dont those people overthrow their dictators?
More then that - you say "vague general assumptions", no they are not at all. Its one of the basics in economics - Economic profitability, you choose the option which will benefit you the most, and work hard calculating weather option A will will be more profitable then option B..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 whether you believe it or not, the US has installed overthrow numerous democratic governments and brutally installed dictatorial regimes- all across the globe. you think its so easy for a population of peasants to overthrow a tyrannical regime installed by the US and given immense arms. your argument is as irrelevant as saying "why didn't the Jewish people overthrow their dictator?" as justification for the horrors of Nazi Germany. you're just repeating propaganda
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well i dont know, and i dont believe so. Every government on earth use it powers to influence other countries. They can finance opposition groups and so on. Im more then sure, other countries meddle with u.s politics as well, by financial means.
The question is why would the u.s, want all south american countries to be 3rd world, socialists, hell holes of countries.. What the does the u.s has to gain from that? And how they did that? Those countries hate the u.s btw...
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 its no secret that the US has overthrow democratic governments and installed brutal tyrannies that allowed the US to rob the nation's resources and labor- such as when the US and UK overthrew the Iranian government in 1954 because they nationalized their oil supply and stopped the UK corporation - the British Petroleum Company - from corruptly monopolizing the Iranian's resources. or when the Reagan admin created/armed death squads to take over the Nicaraguan government
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago
@DeweyZinnChomskyFisk Well, the u.s i heard, consumes 25% of the worlds petrolium, while its population is only 5% out of total.. The oil is the energy that runs the country and the economy of the u.s, no doubt. Its known that in the PAST most western nations occupied and took over other countries resources. Europe was even worse imo, but thats past politics.. Whats that has to do with capitalism/market economy? The soviets also conquered others and took stuff, and they werent capitalists..
shining3210 1 week ago
@shining3210 so because the US uses a large amount of oil, it is okay for the US to violently overthrow a democratic government and replace it with a tyrannical dictatorship? using your logic, it would justified for India to invade the US and overthrow the government because they use a lot of oil. the US overthrows governments consistently and has not stopped- its not just something of the "PAST."
yes, the US has given large amounts of foreign aid- something Ron Paul wants to end
DeweyZinnChomskyFisk 1 week ago