A piece of information for those wondering how those mutas beat the goliaths so easily.
Goliath anti-air damage is explosive type and mutalisks are classified as small units, so the goliaths are only dealing half damage, while the mutas deal full damage.
i thought multas will die in front of Goliaths in no time ... and the best anti-air ground units lose against zerg multa ? that slash damage can really make wonder...
as klazzart commented at the end the mutis had just finished there +1 attack and thats why they did so well had the gols also had +1 attack they woulda stomped them but july knew the map didnt allow enough gas for that AND a big enough force of gols to stop him
hi thundasc, at 2:57-3:07 u can see Gols do have +1 attack even before Multa upgrade finished. but in the final battle at 5:15 i can count ONLY 17 Gols on the left side and 7 Gols reinforcing from the right, so it seems imho zerg just dominate with unit number with a absolutly PERFECT timing.
true i hardly look at ups on the poor quality vods but i see that now and as you said it totally was the numbers and a very good position with half of the gols not attacking for most of the fight good call ;)
THIS is what I'm talking about. To all the Zerg players, instead of just sitting back, whining and crying over "map imbalances" and "oh imba Terrans", no, you actually get up and figure out an innovative playing style to alter the course. I'm not convinced either that this map is imba. I think it is imba to the traditional Zerg play, but we fail to realize that there are so many other styles yet to be tapped into. I'm a terran player but my respect is to July on this one. That's how you play SC.
The map is totally and ridiculously imbalanced versus zerg. Anybody with half a brain can see that, as Zerg builds against the other 2 races rely much more heavily on Gas then the other races in respect.
Innovative play does not make a map balanced, it makes July a genius, but it does not make the map balanced.
Here look: You say it's imba because of Zerg's gas dependency. I don't argue that. But what if the Zerg player never uses a strat which falls upon this deficiency, like July just did? Is the map still imba? The Zerg still have that gas weakness but if they overcome it by scoring wins through other means, what difference does it make? In that sense, the map can still be balanced. Each race will always have a weakness in each map. That's not what makes a map imba though. Horrid win/lose ratios do.
??? So everytime you see one race unable to do something that another can you call that imba? You're describing the formula that makes SC what it is you know. They all have weaknesses and strengths. It's only imba if one race is overpowered thus causing an unfair advantage like in Monty Hall. July was never suffering a disadvantage in this game. So what's the problem? There are plenty of other maps where the other races have to change their play style too. That's SC. Get used to it.
mind really didnt play a standard terran build either so i think july played really well to counter his mech build but id like to see this match-up had mind gone m&m/sk terran i agree the map hinders zerg not getting an easily defendable second gas but these are pros and they are aware of that going into the game so hopefully we see some new play styles not the same boring stuff over and over cause im starting to get sick of the sk terran vrs hive tech zerg
Lastly, I'm still open to the fact that this map could be imba, I'm saying we need to give it more time, we haven't seen enough games. Like Klaz himself said, many people are jumping the gun just because they saw their favorite Zerg players get beaten. But I think if the Zerg players switch it up like July, it will be fine. Who knows? But you have to look beyond the gas issue if that's ever going to happen and realize that a weakness is just a part of the game unless it causes imba. Ya know? GG.
This goes to prove what many of us verterans were saying all along about the jaedong vs flash matchup. It wasn't the mutas that lost it for jaedong, it was the hydras and guardians wasting gas. Mutas > Golaiths, cept maybe 3/3 golaiths. But by that time you control half of the map his army isn't nearly mobile enough to defend more than 2 bases.
July is such a wily veteran and he knows how to play with one gas because of his experience on maps like Nostalgia. Mind assumed July could not go Mutas and tried for a Vulture contain. When July did go Mutas, Mind could not advance his tech to Sci Vessels because he needed all the gas from his one geyser for Goliaths + upgrades and so could never put an end to the Muta harrass. GG by July and thx Klazart!
It's amazing how different Starcraft becomes when you take away the vespene gas at the natural.
Maps have had this before, but I don't think we've had the chance to see modern-style pro games on any of them until now.
I'm still not convinced of any racial imbalances on this map. Yes, the natural's positioning sucks most for the zerg, but I think the shortage of gas tends to hurt T and P in ZvT and ZvP more. Amazing to see a 1-gas muta build work so well. It's like classic style SC!
In PvZ, for example, it is much much easier for Z to acquire a 3rd resource node (2nd gas) than it is for P. So Z will likely have twice the gas of the P for a good portion of the early midgame, and P won't possibly have the gas to counter with something like sair/DT while simultaneously teching to observers and storm. But Z can go ling-lurk off of one gas to start.
ZvT, there is not enough gas for T to turtle with his main and nat and pump 2-port sci vessels. Z gets his 2nd gas sooner.
Wow this will be good if july continues to play like this, Since jaedong got cheesed out of the tournament, I thought I wouldn't have a top level zerg player to root for, but july just gave me some hope
wow! a bio. build against protoss and fact. build for zerg, I'm starting to think that the srategies were mixed up in the 1st 2 games but it sure made 4 sum great SC with great commentary to boot.
Yeah against T metal you want to just stick to mutalisks to keep the T occupied, and then mass expand. July played really well, he's an old-school Zerg that excels on 1-gas maps. I don't think Mind's strategy was justified considering the fact that he only had 1 gas to work off of most of the game.
was a game quite a while ago also, on monty hall i think it was Boxer vs saviour. Gols vs mutes. Boxer raped iT was an awesome match. Bit Like that game but not as good or intense.
july has got groovy skills
AlpinKirkonen 2 years ago
cuz it wasnt proleague, its osl (individual league)
00pyR000 3 years ago
how come no one congratulated him at th end, just looks like he finished winning a game and saunters back into class quietly or somthin
ChemChemicals 3 years ago 2
luv july, my fav zerg player~
1bugleboi1 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
klazart sucks
yersinia2 3 years ago
Actually, goliaths do only HALF damage to small scale units (which mutas are), therefore the damage from goliath is only 10.
Same stuff with turrets.
ModeLTU 3 years ago 3
i tot goliath is the killer against air units..... but equal amount of muta > goliath
Goliath damage = 20+ (High attack rate)
Muta Damage = 10+ (Bounce attack)
Can anyone tel me what happe here??????
khinyung 3 years ago
goliaths do explosive damage, full only against large units, and mutas are small, so they take half 20.
Also Julys mutas were stacked, so individual units couldn't be targeted. But he could target indvidual goliaths with ease.
lawdogg37 3 years ago
plus lings supporting mutas.. taking damage and doing damage
lllshokoboylll 3 years ago
gg awesome job by july
sakelee 3 years ago
So this is why he's called the God of War.
Rimmer7 3 years ago 3
A piece of information for those wondering how those mutas beat the goliaths so easily.
Goliath anti-air damage is explosive type and mutalisks are classified as small units, so the goliaths are only dealing half damage, while the mutas deal full damage.
goatropearms 3 years ago 2
July is back in town! Good to see.
41Somers 3 years ago 4
damnnnnnn july is still the god of the mutas, hands down.
well done july!
kirbyman1kanden7pf 3 years ago
The final battle was very shocking to me.. I never thought muta could engage gols with little ling support
RealmEternal 3 years ago
i thought multas will die in front of Goliaths in no time ... and the best anti-air ground units lose against zerg multa ? that slash damage can really make wonder...
neostarcraft 3 years ago
as klazzart commented at the end the mutis had just finished there +1 attack and thats why they did so well had the gols also had +1 attack they woulda stomped them but july knew the map didnt allow enough gas for that AND a big enough force of gols to stop him
thundasc 3 years ago
hi thundasc, at 2:57-3:07 u can see Gols do have +1 attack even before Multa upgrade finished. but in the final battle at 5:15 i can count ONLY 17 Gols on the left side and 7 Gols reinforcing from the right, so it seems imho zerg just dominate with unit number with a absolutly PERFECT timing.
neostarcraft 3 years ago
true i hardly look at ups on the poor quality vods but i see that now and as you said it totally was the numbers and a very good position with half of the gols not attacking for most of the fight good call ;)
thundasc 3 years ago
July is the macro guy :D
furrer08 3 years ago
thx klaz~!!!!!!!!!!
ddcat1987 3 years ago
i dont think this was innovative, rather reinventing,
as we saw ogogo taking out tarrans repeatetly in the wcg 2003 with mutas
Quitschi1337 3 years ago
SPOILER
Haha, Mind tried to pull off what Flash did against Jaedong and failed.
ianuus 3 years ago
THIS is what I'm talking about. To all the Zerg players, instead of just sitting back, whining and crying over "map imbalances" and "oh imba Terrans", no, you actually get up and figure out an innovative playing style to alter the course. I'm not convinced either that this map is imba. I think it is imba to the traditional Zerg play, but we fail to realize that there are so many other styles yet to be tapped into. I'm a terran player but my respect is to July on this one. That's how you play SC.
Napcom 3 years ago
The map is totally and ridiculously imbalanced versus zerg. Anybody with half a brain can see that, as Zerg builds against the other 2 races rely much more heavily on Gas then the other races in respect.
Innovative play does not make a map balanced, it makes July a genius, but it does not make the map balanced.
Setekhx 3 years ago
Here look: You say it's imba because of Zerg's gas dependency. I don't argue that. But what if the Zerg player never uses a strat which falls upon this deficiency, like July just did? Is the map still imba? The Zerg still have that gas weakness but if they overcome it by scoring wins through other means, what difference does it make? In that sense, the map can still be balanced. Each race will always have a weakness in each map. That's not what makes a map imba though. Horrid win/lose ratios do.
Napcom 3 years ago
but why must the map force the zerg player to do that? while the terran or toss aren't affected? that is what unbalance is you know.
craziii3 3 years ago
??? So everytime you see one race unable to do something that another can you call that imba? You're describing the formula that makes SC what it is you know. They all have weaknesses and strengths. It's only imba if one race is overpowered thus causing an unfair advantage like in Monty Hall. July was never suffering a disadvantage in this game. So what's the problem? There are plenty of other maps where the other races have to change their play style too. That's SC. Get used to it.
Napcom 3 years ago
mind really didnt play a standard terran build either so i think july played really well to counter his mech build but id like to see this match-up had mind gone m&m/sk terran i agree the map hinders zerg not getting an easily defendable second gas but these are pros and they are aware of that going into the game so hopefully we see some new play styles not the same boring stuff over and over cause im starting to get sick of the sk terran vrs hive tech zerg
thundasc 3 years ago
Lastly, I'm still open to the fact that this map could be imba, I'm saying we need to give it more time, we haven't seen enough games. Like Klaz himself said, many people are jumping the gun just because they saw their favorite Zerg players get beaten. But I think if the Zerg players switch it up like July, it will be fine. Who knows? But you have to look beyond the gas issue if that's ever going to happen and realize that a weakness is just a part of the game unless it causes imba. Ya know? GG.
Napcom 3 years ago
This goes to prove what many of us verterans were saying all along about the jaedong vs flash matchup. It wasn't the mutas that lost it for jaedong, it was the hydras and guardians wasting gas. Mutas > Golaiths, cept maybe 3/3 golaiths. But by that time you control half of the map his army isn't nearly mobile enough to defend more than 2 bases.
icuradik2 3 years ago
AMAZING GAME
bryanep 3 years ago
And to the guy who claims that this map is not imbalanced against zerg
"Are you serious?????????"
Zerg without gas is a VERY dead zerg...
(I'm a protoss player yet I still claim that it's difficult to play zerg on this map.)
JustaGuy84 3 years ago
SPOILER ALERT!
I respect each and every zerg player who pulls a victory against terran on this map. GG July...
JustaGuy84 3 years ago
July is such a wily veteran and he knows how to play with one gas because of his experience on maps like Nostalgia. Mind assumed July could not go Mutas and tried for a Vulture contain. When July did go Mutas, Mind could not advance his tech to Sci Vessels because he needed all the gas from his one geyser for Goliaths + upgrades and so could never put an end to the Muta harrass. GG by July and thx Klazart!
BlindPhaedo 3 years ago
Perfect play by the winner.
Michael2708 3 years ago
I love how July is so zen when he plays.
Thanks, Klaz!
thetruwu 3 years ago 2
Whoa, JulyZerg is some damn genious, to win on such map o_O
on the other hand, no science vessels, no tanks... only mid-tech units, but not-bio units of terrans suck big time against zerg.
Pioware 3 years ago
It's amazing how different Starcraft becomes when you take away the vespene gas at the natural.
Maps have had this before, but I don't think we've had the chance to see modern-style pro games on any of them until now.
I'm still not convinced of any racial imbalances on this map. Yes, the natural's positioning sucks most for the zerg, but I think the shortage of gas tends to hurt T and P in ZvT and ZvP more. Amazing to see a 1-gas muta build work so well. It's like classic style SC!
DJElyot 3 years ago
How could it possibly hurt T or P more? Zerg needs to be at least one gas ahead to compete.
spawnfan101 3 years ago
In PvZ, for example, it is much much easier for Z to acquire a 3rd resource node (2nd gas) than it is for P. So Z will likely have twice the gas of the P for a good portion of the early midgame, and P won't possibly have the gas to counter with something like sair/DT while simultaneously teching to observers and storm. But Z can go ling-lurk off of one gas to start.
ZvT, there is not enough gas for T to turtle with his main and nat and pump 2-port sci vessels. Z gets his 2nd gas sooner.
DJElyot 3 years ago
Great game and great commentary. Thanks klazart!
fibagent 3 years ago
Wow this will be good if july continues to play like this, Since jaedong got cheesed out of the tournament, I thought I wouldn't have a top level zerg player to root for, but july just gave me some hope
Sneek88 3 years ago
This game is perfect for July's style. Low economy, close positions. Perfect for rushes, and insane micro, shown by this game.
HelloWorldOD 3 years ago 2
I agree perfect map for july, exciting game - so glad to see him take mind down - GG
JeremyJT 3 years ago
This game wasn't low economy at all- July had 5 bases at the end.
a8le8x 3 years ago 2
great game, i thought those mutas were gonna get PUMMLED by goliaths, wow! gg to july,
sci vessles>goliaths
Sushiiiiiiiiiiiii 3 years ago
Thanks again Klaz
drcloak 3 years ago
wow! a bio. build against protoss and fact. build for zerg, I'm starting to think that the srategies were mixed up in the 1st 2 games but it sure made 4 sum great SC with great commentary to boot.
bsquire1 3 years ago
WOW...that was some brilliant SC
AWESOME commentary klaz...thanks :D
RikaKazak 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
not an perfectly interesting game but thanks for the commentary
Bortmansuck 3 years ago
i thought the game was amazing
mynameistoo 3 years ago 7
i thought that mind would have taken this game easily but july countered perfectly. Never seen a better defence zerg like this.
lovelymanforu2004 3 years ago 5
wtf that was rape o.o
cagatenen 3 years ago
=D nice game
CrazyCrackahMelakle 3 years ago
Great play by july = D
Earlofnorway 3 years ago 4
not fun to watch for this one...
anyway GG
middlecha 3 years ago
Yeah against T metal you want to just stick to mutalisks to keep the T occupied, and then mass expand. July played really well, he's an old-school Zerg that excels on 1-gas maps. I don't think Mind's strategy was justified considering the fact that he only had 1 gas to work off of most of the game.
gg, thanks for the commentary.
lolggnorm 3 years ago 3
July looking really sharp. Thanks for the commentaries klazart!
ZkilfinG2 3 years ago 3
Just great !
EriBW 3 years ago 4
Klaz, I want to make violent love to you! :D
dice84 3 years ago 2
i was going to remark how this is inappropriate, but I also want to make violent love to klazart, so i won't. :P
wade1110 3 years ago
ummm wtf?
kirbyman1kanden7pf 3 years ago
fantastic commentary as usual
dogusah 3 years ago 5
was a game quite a while ago also, on monty hall i think it was Boxer vs saviour. Gols vs mutes. Boxer raped iT was an awesome match. Bit Like that game but not as good or intense.
danielodunne 3 years ago
Klaz Class!! :D
danielodunne 3 years ago 5
KLAZ, you rule!!!
greenie9 3 years ago 6