So Joseph Smith had an Oedipus Complex? Maybe he was just a young boy suffering a lot of pain how does this give him a "medical condition?" Many families lived very similar lifestyles at the time. Were they all crazy too?
If God commanded you to do something would you do it? What if it was hard? What if others would ridicule you for it? Joseph only did polygamy because God commanded it. As a true prophet he had no alternative. As for us worshiping Joseph,Joseph said the Atonment of Jesus Christ is the gospel all other principles are apendages to it. Joseph was a wronged man over and over yet hate was foreign to him! He did not know it. He lived for his love for Christ. He died for love of his friends and Christ
Deut 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul..
12yrs is a good age to teach kids about religion until that they just do what they're parents do,but plz keep the state and religion separate in the USA we have started mixing all the kids together for the first time in the west of Scotland where we have a lot of bigots on both sides.so hopefully it will all be gone in 1 or 2 generations
Mormons have a different GOD in the BOM to the Lord God Almighty of the Bible. A different jesus in the BOM to the Jesus of the Bible and a different holy spirit in the BOM to the Holy Spirit of the Bible. HOW can praying to their god HELP YOU?
Moroni''s Promise - to anyone who wants to know whether the Book of Mormon is true:
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. [Moroni 10:4]
The mormon church has made it's members want things they don't need or exist by linking mass produced LDS doctrine and ideas to peoples unconscious desires. Out of this comes a new political idea of how to control the membership. By satisfying members inner selfish desires, the church has made it's people happy and thus docile. The start of the all consuming self, man-made idols of the self, which has come to dominate the church today. The church of Joseph Smith and his latter day saints.
Mormonism is obviously false if you truly look at the evidence.
Passages are copied from the KJV, other are altered. With some of these alterations Joseph completely shatters his credibility. Historical events that are said to take place are proven to have never happened. The BOM is littered with anachrons. There is no archaeological evidence. no historical evidence.
@leoneverest I'm a convert to the LDS church and find that it answers my questions about life, and gives us a set of gospel principles to live by. It helps us learn and grow spiritually, which is needed in this life. I can't imagine being a member of any other church. And you can't base the truthfulness of this church on just "evidence." You have to study, ponder and pray and take Moroni's Promise at the end of the Book of Mormon to find out for yourself if the church is true.
@cindybin2001 - You can't base the truthfulness of this church on 'just evidence'. Cindy, if you could only hear yourself. Evidence has to be evident and without deliberation is meaningless, as is prayer without consideration.
@54v115 No, physical evidence does NOT have to be evident. For example. If the golden plates were here on this earth, on display in a museum, we would all be FORCED to believe. Would you want that? Heck no. We all want our free agency, our ability to choose, to study, ponder and pray and develop our faith so that we can grow spiritually and return to our Father in Heaven someday. That's what it's all about. We don't want all this concrete, physical evidence. Otherwise we'd all be "Mormons".
@cindybin2001 Oh come on.. what a ridiculous example. I haven't heard anyone propose something so absurd in all my life. We have to name a few: geographical, physical, linguistic and textual evidence of the Bible. Are people forced to believe? No! People choose to accept or ignore the evidence for the Bible and as such, for God and His teaching. Your proposal is laughable and you really should be embarrassed by it!
@54v115 What???? I can't believe this!! This is one of the things we've talked about alot in church, and it makes perfect sense to me!! Oh wow oh wow oh wow, this REALLY shows me that you don't understand, that you don't have the spirituality thing down at all!!! You know darn well that if those plates were here on earth, people would be FORCED to believe! Just like if Jesus came down and MADE everyone a Christian! We need to develop our faith and exercise our free agency!
@cindybin2001 - Cindy, are we forced to believe in the Aleppo Codex (c. 920 CE), Leningrad Codex (c. 1008 CE) the oldest Hebrew language manuscripts of the Tanakh. How about the Dead Sea Scrolls (Tanakh at Qumran)? No of course not. We are not forced to believe anything, irrespective of the hard physical evidence. But in this case we do. What nonsense to espouse 'physical evidence' does NOT have to be evident. WHAT they are telling you? You can tell they have no BOM evidence.
@cindybin2001 - Your mormon teachers are telling you to remain thoughtless and indifferent. I'm really not the one with the problem here. What of Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook Plates? Have to believe?...what irresponsible tosh!
@54v115 Yes, my Mormon teachers tell me to remain thoughtless and indifferent...thoughtless and indifferent...thoughtless and indifferent...(said like a robot)
@cindybin2001 shall we ignore your comment? Or would you rather explain to me why the Leadership tell you to toe the line and believe what they tell you, else suffer consequences... the most extreme consequence being excommunication?
@cindybin2001 - what makes perfect sense to you?.. the church says to you believe anyway, the thinking has been done for you, the decisions have been made. So that's what you do? You believe without question, the various renditions of church history and transitory versions of the BOM Story and the BOM's amendments. No need for evidence to be evident? IF the church had ANY evidence to support it and it's claims.. it WOULD be ON SHOW for ALL the WORLD to SEE.
@54v115 No, the thinking hasn't been done for me, etc. And no, that is not true about evidence. As I said, we couldn't have the plates right here on display in a museum, otherwise people would be FORCED to believe. If Jesus Himself came down and told us that the Bible is true, everybody would be FORCED to be a Christian. Would you want that? No. We have to exercise our free agency. That's what life is about.
@cindybin2001 You need to read your own Leaders doctrine and matters of record before you comment.
EVERY cited piece of information I have presented to you is sourced from Mormon Sources and The Bible Canon. The LDS Church News came out with an article informing all members that if something is correlated, it is sanctioned. These are sanctioned by the LDS church, and you are instructed by the LDS church to believe them. If you don't like this News.. take it up with them! - What choice?
According to PhD psychologists anyone that believes in any religion or any sort of higher power is clinically insane and has severe issues of self-importance and grandeur.
@54v115 Ouch got told by someone with an arts degree. Your clearly don't have a PhD as my comment comes from a place of total blissful security, even if you did the requirements for getting one is laughable. Try to do the actual science then come back and have a go.
@grahamgeons - I attended University College London 1983 firstly for my BSc in Psychology, continued with my Masters and was awarded a Distinction. From there I secured my place on the MPhil programme which converted to PhD on successful continuance. In addition to this I continue with continued professional development at the Tavistock Institute. My credentials are secure and authentic You obviously cannot claim the same. You're position is one of ignorance and impotence.
@grahamgeons - How do you explain Jesus Christ? Your comment comes from a school of thought and nothing more. Would you care to enlighten the readership which school of thought expounds this idea? How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician?
@54v115 Well I only have to answer one of those and it speaks for the rest. 95% of Scientists are Atheist, not a made up fact of any kind this is well known, 99.25% of American convicts are religious is some way. Do the math. I also have to ask just because it made me laugh, what makes you think I dirtied my hands with an arts degree?
@grahamgeons - percentages? How many Scientists are there? Your 'facts' are pretty thin...lol.what point are you hoping to make? Your sound bites carry little weight. Are you able to read with comprehension?.. I certainly didn't say you came from an arts background... you're not bright enough to hold a simple conversation. You haven't addressed the questions put to you. Care to enlighten us with your brilliance?
@54v115 *Sigh* I have to point out the obvious, I can't argue a dictionary definition with you because it is a dictionary definition with no individual possibility of interpretation thus the assumption of the arts. Numbers are the only conclusive evidence if you had any scientific background you would know that. Jesus broke the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, google those laws they are absolute not some magical interpretation. Please link your PhD dissertation so I can have another laugh.
@grahamgeons - do you really think you have the expert knowledge, advanced language, mathematical and scientific skills to read a Thesis of Psychology and not dissertation as you put it? I believe you'll struggle somewhat. you'll find dissertations are a first university degree level requirement. Your attempts to ridicule are pedestrian and immature. What are your qualifications? Nice round statistics 95% of all scientists are atheists? What is your degree of confidence?
@grahamgeons - still waiting Sam... explain your brilliance... How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician? Or are you a copy and paste kind of guy?
@54v115 Seeing as I never mentioned schizophrenia that question is redundant, insanity has been defined by people smarter then you or I so I don't have to define it oh wow that was so difficult. Next time you try and troll don't claim you have a PhD unless your willing to link your dissertation. Its clear your a tard because you took me saying insanity to specifically mean schizophrenia which obvious means you don't even have a BA in psychology. You tried hard but in the end you still failed.
@grahamgeons - once again.. You have demonstrated your inability to appreciate the significance of what is being said to you. Thesis instead of dissertation. The subtleties of competing perspectives escape you. You proclamation steps away from you when you are fronted with the conditions of the abnormal mind. You cannot qualify your copy and paste statements when presented with, for example, schizophrenia, or when asked to define insanity in the terms of the clinician. Back to school with you.
@54v115 This is why I love the sciences it lets you cut right through all the bullshit and see the nasty truth which is that perceptions are actually worthless without scientific backing ie undeniable truths. Only a tard would say there is a difference between a thesis and a dissertation as they are the same thing. You should know both of these things if you actually had an education. Keep bringing up the same points over and over again gives me a few laughs in between doing a real degree.
@grahamgeons lol... once again... YOU make yourself sound less intelligent don't you?.. YOU haven't explained your proposal in terms sufficient to test your proposal. YOU don't grasp the notion of what science actually is..what is absolute and what isn't. YOU continue to display your ignorance... lol..as for your real degree.. you're only a graduand...lol.. care to share? What's your area of expertise? I'm waiting Sam.. STILL no explanation... avoid all you can.. prove your statement. lol
@grahamgeons Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of the ground you stand?
A dissertation or thesis is a document submitted in support of candidature for an academic degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings. In SOME countries/universities, the word "thesis" or a cognate is used as part of a bachelor's or master's course, while "dissertation" is normally applied to a doctorate, WHILE IN OTHERS, the reverse is TRUE. When you talk with a PhD know where he comes from.
@grahamgeons Inside the academic community, the terms thesis and dissertation have very specific meanings. A thesis (Doctoral or Research Masters) is an argument that is created and then tested through research. A dissertation (first or second degree level), however, is the document that records this research and is submitted as evidence by an applicant for an academic qualification. So you don't know it all Sam. Not much at least.
@54v115 Thank you! Finally your starting to get that without proven research you can't say anything. So perceptions don't mean shit! I can't believe you would contradict yourself and side with me in the end, what a wonderful conclusion. By the way everyone in the scientific community knows what a joke the arts are just ask one, we often use it to cheer ourselves up when we feel down. "Might as well kill half my brain cells and go do an arts degree"
@grahamgeons - Sam you're an idiot, worse still, you're an uneducated and opinionated idiot. You haven't got the benefit or credit of an Honours Degree level education, let alone anything higher and beyond your capability. Contradiction? What have you misunderstood now? You are unable to follow a discussion. What's with your compulsion with the Arts?..lol You introduced the Arts into this discussion. No.. As for killing your brain cells.. you can't afford to lose any.. better leave one alone.
@grahamgeons - you really are an idiot.. No one is going back.. you've not managed to grasp the difference between dissertation and thesis... You still haven't explained your argument.. and you're not smart enough to read my works or published research... your happy as a pig in shit?..lol.. take time out to smell the coffee sam.
@54v115 Why so serious Jack? Trying to convince yourself that your life means something by attempting to troll people you will never meet? At the end of the day we both know our worth and the others is irrelevant, unless you've got something to prove to yourself, that's why I'm so happy.
@grahamgeons - lol... your a lab technician..lol that explains many things.. happy standing at the bench, repeating the same ol' same ol'.... my life.. means many things to many people and most are happy with it.. as for yours... careful with your pipette...lol.. a lab rat... lol
@grahamgeons Well all I can say is I'm sorry. All the people in the church that I know are proud to be Mormons and work hard to strengthen their testimonies, etc. It does have the fulness of the gospel. I can't imagine being a member of any other church.
@cindybin2001 Then don't be a member of any church, but don't listen to me ask your church how many of them are trying to cure cancer then ask the scientists who are trying to cure cancer what church they are apart of, you may be surprised.
@grahamgeons What kind of argument is THAT??? Wow, just when I thought I've heard everything, somebody tops it! Asking scientists who are trying to cure cancer what church they belong to. Oh brother.
@grahamgeons I can't believe this!!! What does CANCER have to do with being a member of the Mormon church??? There are Mormons who get cancer and who go to regular doctors, etc. There are doctors in the LDS church, and scientists, and car mechanics and dentists!! Your comment doesn't make sense!!!
@cindybin2001 Name one, not a doctor or a mechanic or a dentist, name an organic chemist or medical researcher who is also a Mormon. Those are the ones inventing drugs to cure diseases, cancers just an example. I will then name all the atheist organic chemists/medical researchers and we can compare. I will have to give few examples as their are literally hundreds if not thousands.
@grahamgeons This is ridiculous and I'm not going to even participate in this discussion. One's occupation has nothing to do with whether or not the Mormon church is true or whether or not you are a member.
@cindybin2001 Couldn't find any? If myself and other scientists were part of your church we would still be living in the dark ages. But that's all in the past, now we can't be hanged for speaking against god the human race can finally advance. Thank you Richard Dawkins and other sensible scientists who are every day struggling to make a better future despite religion.
@grahamgeons You know, Mormons believe science and religion goes hand in hand. I know scientists in the LDS church. You are acting like because you are a scientist that you are so superior. That is just ridiculous.
@cindybin2001 Superior? According to your church I'm going to spend an eternity in spirit prison being tortured for all my "sins" while you live in a magical wonderland. Who has the superiority complex?
@grahamgeons You will if you continue making these crazy comments to me! Lol. Seriously, that simply isn't true. Please learn the truth about the church.
@cindybin2001 So I can do what with it? Have a laugh? Your religion may accept science but science doesn't accept your religion. If any scientist submitted a paper for peer review called "The God Theory" he/she would be laughed at by the entire scientific community as religion is faith without proof and science is empirical evidence above all else, if you can't prove it, it doesn't exist.
@grahamgeons - How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician? Or would you prefer something easier? I suggest you find yourself a real school and not spend so much time attending church dances... Your propositional logic, is found wanting.. perhaps you'd care to revisit De Morgans Law and develop at least a basic competence in data handling. Best of Luck Sam.
@EarthRover Nobody trapped me into joining the LDS Church. I studied, pondered and prayed all on my own, and THEN contacted the missionaries and told them I wanted to be baptised. That was over 30 years ago. I can't imagine being a member of any other church. Nobody has the fulness of the gospel.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true Christian church. We believe the Bible to be the word of God and live by it. We don't believe that only members go to Heaven. We believe all good people will go to Heaven : ) Go to lds.org or mormon.org to start discover the truth : )
I think Joseph Smiths problem was spiritual. Demonic Possession. And I have a psych degree... JS was in opposition to God and that's a spiritual problem.
I think Joseph Smiths problem was spiritual. Demonic Possession. And I have a psych degree....But JS was in opposition to God and that's a spiritual problem.
You people do realize that Prophets are not perfect? Hello? Look at Moses, was he perfect? No, he had a speech impediment. God takes imperfect people, usually humble followers of him and he molds them into what He wants them to be. Remember what you can find out a true or a false prophet by their fruits. Look at the fruit of Joseph Smith. Look at where the Church of Jesus Christ is now and it keeps growing. It is the Lord's ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH
@crxracer805 The "fruit" of Joseph Smith? Lust, adultery, theft, destroying property (printing press), blasphemy, lies. All those kind will NOT enter the gates of heaven. He deceived many and built up Satan's kingdom on earth (the great and abominable). Bible says you would rather believe a lie, so God will send you strong delusion. Time to open your eyes and see he was the FALSE prophet prophesied about in scripture. I left that cult after 53 years. Take off the blinders.
@latterdaymystic Lies, lies, lies. All those were lies made up to defame Joseph Smith's name. Of course there will always be opposition to the true Church. There always has been. Only few believed the LORD himself. Some even thought he had a devil in him. It holds true for the LORD's prophets as well. I'm sorry you left the Church long ago. I'm sure you stopped praying and reading your scriptures. That's how we fall, by not doing the simple things.
This is so stupid.... It's true that Joseph's medical incident likely had a profound impact on him, but in a good way. There are many known cases of people who have went through some sort of "trauma" and coming out with amazing Gifts & Abilities. What you guys spin as a negative thing, was instead the beginning of his taping into the things of God. Seeing beyond time. etc. How the heck do you people think Prophets become prophets, in some box???
Mental Health Medicine to day is still trial and error and by the way please do your research on the profession before you give false and unsupported claims. There are people born in poverty just like me and I was 5th of 7 and was born with a huge mental capacity yet I couldn't write a book like the Book of Mormon. Not only that EVIDENCE now found shows the Book of Mormon relates to Mid-east areas and related names. Something he wouldn't be able to produce without Truth
GOD BLESS YOU SHAWN.....I've done my best to try and lead LDS *friends* of mine to your web site; but that's all I can do...I just don't understand, more than anything; after hearing Jesus & satan were spiritual brothers; what more proof would they need to see this is a FALSE RELIGION? Keep up you awesome testimonies Shawn; God Bless you
@GratefulChristian Oh come on, there are REASONS behind this "spritual brothers" thing. When I was investigating the LDS church over 30 years ago, I learned all about that, and it made sense to me, as did the other doctrines of the Church. But of course things are taken out of context and distorted, and people think Mormons are a wacky cult. It's so frustrating. Oh well.
whoa. i consider myself a very intuitive person and always thought that after reading joseph smith history that it was a blue print for schizophrenic in the very least. thank you so much for this :)
Its not so strange that someone with a mental illness would create a "religion." What is strange, is that so many people would follow it, despite the fact that the True Book, which it borrows many of its characters and names from, deny this false cult, others would adamantly follow it. This is hard to comprehend.
@chunkballfairycake As a 50 year member of that cult, I see the light and am leaving as are many now that the "secrets" are out in the open now . They brainwash children their whole lives, break up "forever" families and still lie even to their own members to strengthen the church. If you should ever leave "the fold" you are called an apostate and lied about and they encourage your own family to shun you. That's religion? WWJD?
@latterdaymystic I'm a convert to the LDS church and was never "brainwashed" into believing anything. I had lots of questions when I first investigated the LDS church over 30 years ago--as an ADULT, not a child. I did research on my own and found the answers. There's nothing secret and nobody lies to me or anyone else.
@cindybin2001 - converts have completely different experiences than those who were indoctrinated into the church as children. Converts have free will to choose to be mormon; those who are born to a mormon family have no free will to choose for themselves and have to go through hell to extricate themselves from the religion if it doesn't mesh well with their spirituality.
@enigmatically Even people raised in the church have free will to accept or reject the gospel. I raised two sons in the church exactly alike; one is married and active in the church, the other couldn't care less. He didn't know what was going on even when he was baptised at age 8--we could see it in his eyes. He may accept the gospel someday, maybe he won't. Who knows. But we as parents have to make an EFFORT to raise our children right.
@cindybin2001 - force feeding indoctrination down one's children's throats is simply not raising children right. I take offense when parents force their 2 year olds who can barely speak to stand in front of the podium in front of the entire congregation and repeat what their parent whispers in their ear about "knowing" that Joe Smith was a prophet. I'm sorry but 2 year olds do not know anything and that is pure and simple brainwashing.
@enigmatically Oh come on, of course two-year-olds don't understand what they are doing. But parents have to make an effort and TRY to raise their kids right. What else should they do? Take them to a Catholic church or Lutheran church where they're raised to think nothing is wrong with drinking booze? And where they think Mormons are racist and sexist, etc.? Parents have to at least try.
@cindybin2001 - I also take offense about 8 year olds being the "age of consent". Would you let an 8 year old stay at home alone for the weekend with no supervision? Would you let an eight year old drive a car, or have sex? I think not. So why then is an 8 year old apparently mature enough to make the most important decision of their life regarding spirituality, when they are not old enough to make mature decisions about anything else? It's brainwashing, pure and simple.
@enigmatically As I've said before, 8 is the age where most children are accountable. Of course we don't leave them alone then, etc. And everybody is different. It's not brainwashing, it is just teaching them correct doctrines, trying to help them live the gospel. They still have to grow up and accept or reject it, develop their OWN testimony, etc. My two sons were both baptised at 8 and one is active, the other isn't. Everyone has to decide for themself and study and ponder and pray.
@cindybin2001 - mormon brainwashing has traumatized me and has brought me to the brink of suicide many times, you just gloss over the serious issues with your cult because you don't want to believe that it is not for everyone. Parents should give their children free will not force them to go to seminary and do scripture study every morning or be shunned and treated like an outcast for not feeling the "magical heartburn". And the temple ceremonies are pretty creepy too.
@enigmatically I'm very sorry you have been so depressed or upset over the church. That isn't good. Of course this is not what the gospel is about. It should HELP people. As for parents "forcing" their children to go to things, it's just what a parent does. My parents "forced" me to go to Bible classes for the Episcopalian church when I was a youth! Did it stick? Not really. We are free to accept or reject.
@BreshiBaraElohim I'm a convert to the LDS church and resent what you said. I find that the LDS church helps answer our questions about life, and gives us a set of gospel principles to live by. It helps us learn and grow spiritually, which is needed in this life.
@cindybin2001: Of course you "resent" what I said. That is because your faith is ultimately about you, as all good false paths must make it, not about the truth. Anyone can be given a set of principles, and convinced they are based on the gospel, even Muslim following Mohamed and killing Christians believe that they are following the true gospel of Jesus Christ. At some point, you must consider the truth, which is probably why you watched this video, you are considering.
@BreshiBaraElohim It figures. Here I try to help you understand why you are offending people, and to dispel some misconceptions about the church, etc., and you just put me down and act like I'm the looney one. Oh well, I tried.
@cindybin2001: If the truth offends you, then that is YOUR problem. The comment you commented on was a sincere attempt to understand the situation, you did absolutely NOTHING to help me understand why you follow teachings which are clearly contrary to the teachings of Christ, rather you try and make me feel guilty for seeking to understand. And i never put you down, or acted like you were "looney," to the contrary, i treated you with respect, and suggested you were intelligent.
@WhyIAm7 It's true that no single church can answer all questions on life. In the LDS church we are the first to admit we don't know all the answers. And yes, the Bible DOES answer alot of questions. There is one true church, though. And the LDS church has additional scripture and latter-day revelation that helps shed light on many of the difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. It really does help explain things.
@cindybin2001 there is no one true church. your church is the FALSE church. the Bible does not answer a lot, it answers all we need. there is no true additional scripture. it is false. beyond false. i could dig up some tablets and translate them however i wanted, and you would believe me?? if you need more "scripture" then the Bible, it is not a true church.
@WhyIAm7 Oh okay, I'll tell my Bishop that some person on the Internet said our church is false. THAT will make a huge difference! Lol. Seriously though, it is up to each individual to discover the truth for their own. You have to ponder and pray and ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. That's what I did over 30 years ago. I can't imagine being in any other church, knowing what I know about the LDS church. None of the others have the fulness of the gospel.
@cindybin2001 you don't pray to God to ask him if something is right when it OBVIOUSLY isn't in scripture. your gonna pray to God and ask him if killing someone is right. Or pray to God to ask him if stealing is right. because scripture covers that they're not. proverbs 5 and 6. “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."
@cindybin2001 Cindy, Tom Cruise hd a wonderful prayerful moment where he discovered Scientology to be true... The problem is, much like Mormonism... none of the stuff found in that churches belief system are present in the historical record. Isn't it funny how we can discover Dinosaurs, Wooly Mammoths, Massive Indian Civilizations, Etc... but nothing of this massive society only 1,300 years old and was only 800 years removed when Europeans settled here. Not to even get into the DNA issue.
@kevinjppark Well thank you for enlightening me. I shall tell my Bishop that "kevinjppark" of the Internet informed me that the LDS church isn't true because of all these reasons he stated, and he will be shocked! He will inform the higher-ups and I'm sure the church will be disbanded immediately!
@cindybin2001 Enlightenment doesn't come from me. First three lies of Satan in scripture, 1. "You can be like gods" (Check, LDS claims that), 2. "Did God really say that?" (Another LDS Check, The Bible is true IN SO FAR IT'S CORRECTLY TRANSLATED), & 3. "Did God really mean that?" (Final LDS Check, "Lets look at this other book for ideas."). Don't make the mistake of trying to build up "filthy rags" in false glory. Glory only comes in the finished work of Jesus Christ - the ONLY blood attonement.
@kevinjppark Yes, I know about these doctrines. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating the LDS church. Why do people think Mormons don't know anything?
@cindybin2001 No I fully believe you know some of these things and zeal, but the Mormon Church teaches to establish your own righteousness. Just as Romans 10:2-4 says: 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
@cindybin2001 It describes a people with a zeal for God, but it's not based on knowledge. They go on trying to build up their own works. They haven't raised up their hands and said, "There is no way I'm capable of doing these things". For example goto Matthew 5. It's an impossible standard. The MAIN point of the passage is to CONVICT you by the Law. Mormons take communion in a promise that this week they'll live up to the law. Christians take communion because they ARE SINNERS and NEVER COULD.
@kevinjppark Mormons don't build up their own works. We know we can never be perfect. I don't know why people have such a problem with this simple concept. All this debate over faith and works and grace and all that. Sheesh. I read this stuff over 30 years ago when I was investigating the church and it all made perfect sense to me. My husband isn't even LDS and he understands it.
@cindybin2001 If you understood grace why are you still yoked to the Law? Why if someone in your ward was smoking a cigar public, long hair, or drinking wine, or wasn't giving a tithe could they lose their temple recommend? Why do you ignore Jesus talking to the Woman at the Well (John 4) when he says the hour is near where you won't worship God in physical temple, but in the spirit of truth. How could Mormonism be true if it's still yoked to some specific temple, precepts, and works?
@kevinjppark I'm not "yoked to the Law"? And there's nothing wrong with living to certain standards in order to get a Temple recommend. You can't let just ANYBODY in. But that doesn't mean you are "yoked to the law." Oh brother. And of course we worship God in the spirit of truth. That's what it's all about. But I suppose you will say, "No, it's not." Sigh...
@cindybin2001 Rereading: Line 1 you affirm your not yoked. Sentence 2 you describe a yoke of "certain standards for a Temple recommend". Line 3 you affirm it's organizational control, that's no different then the Sanhedrin's position in Jesus time. Line 4 you then go back to the claim the doesn't mean you are yoked, but without a Temple recommend Mormon's can't get to the highest level of heaven. Line 5 Refer again to Romans 10:2-4. Jesus NEVER lobbied for a temple system in the New Testament
@cindybin2001 So you restored the Gospel from Jesus and his own teachings? Seeing you don't even argue the FACT that Jesus time and time again is against the Temple system, I'll take that as a yes. The call of the New Testament is away from the old sacrificial rights, and to be covered by his blood and HIS WORK and rest in HIM. That's the most honest thing you've said during this entire thing. I entirely and completely agree. You have restored the PRISON of Jewish law and not fulfilling it.
@kevinjppark Oh for Pete's sake. That doesn't make sense at all. Anyway, as I said, we can argue and argue till the cows come home, and as long as the Spirit isn't present, you'll never understand. When I was investigating the church years ago, I took Moroni's Promise and asked the Lord if it was true. I simply cannot imagine being a member of any other church.
@cindybin2001 Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Why does the "Temple" exclude members due to works when the Gospel says NO ONE is justified by WORKS. Why would Mormonism teach exclusion by works, if it was Christian? It's not, Romans 10:2-4.
@kevinjppark Yes, I know. Again, why do people have such trouble with this faith and works thing?? It's just so simple! It's a good thing to set certain standards to get into the Temple. But that doesn't mean you base salvation on works alone. That's not it at all. If you have faith in Christ, chances are works or your actions are going to follow--you're not going to just sit like a lump or go out and murder people. It's all about faith in Christ. We do not "work our way to heaven".
@cindybin2001 Cindy you can't agree with the idea that people are excluded from the Temple and HENCE access to the Celestial Kingdom for things such as long hair, improper tithing, dress, and still believe in Grace. God's Grace is either Grace = Salvation + Works OR IT IS Works + Grace = Salvation. One says God's Grace is entirely and completely sufficient. The other says God's Grace is insufficient in itself to save me. PS John The Baptist by appearance wouldn't have been Mormon Temple worthy.
@kevinjppark I understand what you are saying but you are misinterpreting things. It's just so simple. Again, I don't know why people get so hung up on this concept, and then think the entire church is a sham or cult or something.
@cindybin2001 Cindy there is no misinterpretation. That's why you can't dive into the Bible and counter the scripture I can present from just scripture. I would never dream to goto a Jew and say "Your Scripture is true - in so far as it's correctly translated". Now I could goto the messianic predictions of the Old Testament to a Jew and say "See that really was fulfilled in Jesus", but I would never say the premise was faulty. Joseph Smith couldn't keep that same standard because it's CONTRARY.
@kevinjppark Oh for heaven's sake. Here I try to nicely explain things to you so you'll understand and stop putting down the church and hopefully investigate it and see for yourself that it is true, and it's like talking to a wall! A WALL!!! Why do I even BOTHER??? Internet People are so frustrating.
@cindybin2001 Again, you fail to make an argument out of Scripture, because all you know are meetings where you bare "heartfelt" testimony, and you don't know the word of God. After that you do weekly perjury to "god" where you claim before you take communion you'll not sin
All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever.' And this is the word that was preached to you," (1 Pet. 1:24-25)
@cindybin2001 Once again you fail to cite any scripture to defend yourself. Okay new question, Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets seeing the made multiple prophecies that were unfulfilled?
@kevinjppark Oooh, these questions are too deep. I'm going to go watch Antiques Road Show now. Nice talking with you, and I hope you find the answers! : )
@cindybin2001 You'd think for 30 years in your "amazing" church you could actually answer some of these things with scripture. Next question Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Were Joseph Smith revelations just true, in so far as he correctly translated himself?
@kevinjppark Have you read The Ensign? They answer alot of these questions. Also, a good book is A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrande Richards. It helped me so much when I was investigating the Church all those years ago. And then as always, there are alot of things we just don't know. But that doesn't mean the church isn't true.
@cindybin2001 Why does the Mormon Church teach that we can be married in heaven when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
@kevinjppark Good question--this is addressed in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder. That's what I like about that book, it uses Biblical references to help explain the doctrines of the Church.
@cindybin2001 Then cite those references. Once again about 18 messages into our discussion and still no desire to cite actual passages. I'll continue asking questions in a hope one of them will actually spur some scriptural citation: If your leaders are correct about the complete falling away of the true church on earth, was Jesus in error when he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)?
@cindybin2001 Cindy why doesn't that concern you 30 years in? Seriously. Here you stand with a statement of an additional testament and you can't quote scripture that supports an idea a 3rd testament was coming. Feelings is what Tom Cruise has. Feelings aren't what you base eternity on. If someone told you one of two cars had no brakes on it and you won't be able to stop, would you pick a car based on feelings? No you would investigate both cars. Over a Billion Christians are worth investigating
@cindybin2001 Let me also add Cindy, Read the Gospel of John in one sitting. Then another night read the book of Romans in one sitting. Just do those two things. Please I compel you. Neither would take you longer to read then watching some junk movie would. If you can read them yourself, prayerfully, without interruption you may be blessed by then. Even if it just deepens your belief that Joseph Smith was correct in his claims. If the BOM is true, all it should do is strengthen your resolve.
@kevinjppark Me read the Bible??? Why that is absurd! I'm a Mormon! I don't believe in that evil book! Why, I don't even have one in the house! Lol. Seriously, what makes you think I haven't read the Bible or these books in one sitting? We study the Bible all the time in the LDS church. Again, there are things in the Bible that are misunderstood by mainstream Christian churches. Read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, it helps explain some of those passages.
@cindybin2001 What are some passages that you find evil in the New Testament? Seeing you now claim to be well read in it. Can you cite some passages in the New Testament that are evil? I will say though you need to reread what you wrote next time you are flabbergasted at the idea no established Christian Church believes you are Christian. Maybe your Moroni Test isn't too strong if two books within the New Testament Joseph Smith claimed to build upon are too evil to read.
@WhyIAm7 It's the the CHURCH. It is the Bible, and the Book of Mormon which helps explain some of the more difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. I'm a convert to the LDS church and we do have the fulness of the Gospel. But yes, it all comes down to the Bible and other scriptures.
All the strange things Joseph Smith did he seemed mentally ill. Looking in a hat?Thanks for all this info. That is so true about kids in large families. lol
So Joseph Smith had an Oedipus Complex? Maybe he was just a young boy suffering a lot of pain how does this give him a "medical condition?" Many families lived very similar lifestyles at the time. Were they all crazy too?
stevejames1012 1 month ago
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If God commanded you to do something would you do it? What if it was hard? What if others would ridicule you for it? Joseph only did polygamy because God commanded it. As a true prophet he had no alternative. As for us worshiping Joseph,Joseph said the Atonment of Jesus Christ is the gospel all other principles are apendages to it. Joseph was a wronged man over and over yet hate was foreign to him! He did not know it. He lived for his love for Christ. He died for love of his friends and Christ
dorisfenella 2 months ago
Deut 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul..
buddo1999 4 months ago
12yrs is a good age to teach kids about religion until that they just do what they're parents do,but plz keep the state and religion separate in the USA we have started mixing all the kids together for the first time in the west of Scotland where we have a lot of bigots on both sides.so hopefully it will all be gone in 1 or 2 generations
tony671 6 months ago
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54v115 8 months ago
Mormons have a different GOD in the BOM to the Lord God Almighty of the Bible. A different jesus in the BOM to the Jesus of the Bible and a different holy spirit in the BOM to the Holy Spirit of the Bible. HOW can praying to their god HELP YOU?
54v115 8 months ago
Moroni''s Promise - to anyone who wants to know whether the Book of Mormon is true:
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. [Moroni 10:4]
- What nonsense!
54v115 8 months ago
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Watch on You tube: Craig Criddle on Who really wrote the BOM?
54v115 8 months ago
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The mormon church has made it's members want things they don't need or exist by linking mass produced LDS doctrine and ideas to peoples unconscious desires. Out of this comes a new political idea of how to control the membership. By satisfying members inner selfish desires, the church has made it's people happy and thus docile. The start of the all consuming self, man-made idols of the self, which has come to dominate the church today. The church of Joseph Smith and his latter day saints.
54v115 8 months ago
i'll settle this simply and easily.
Mormonism is obviously false if you truly look at the evidence.
Passages are copied from the KJV, other are altered. With some of these alterations Joseph completely shatters his credibility. Historical events that are said to take place are proven to have never happened. The BOM is littered with anachrons. There is no archaeological evidence. no historical evidence.
Joseph Smith's word vs Historical fact.
Joseph the narcissist, the womanizer, the fraud.
go QQ
leoneverest 9 months ago
@leoneverest I'm a convert to the LDS church and find that it answers my questions about life, and gives us a set of gospel principles to live by. It helps us learn and grow spiritually, which is needed in this life. I can't imagine being a member of any other church. And you can't base the truthfulness of this church on just "evidence." You have to study, ponder and pray and take Moroni's Promise at the end of the Book of Mormon to find out for yourself if the church is true.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - You can't base the truthfulness of this church on 'just evidence'. Cindy, if you could only hear yourself. Evidence has to be evident and without deliberation is meaningless, as is prayer without consideration.
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 No, physical evidence does NOT have to be evident. For example. If the golden plates were here on this earth, on display in a museum, we would all be FORCED to believe. Would you want that? Heck no. We all want our free agency, our ability to choose, to study, ponder and pray and develop our faith so that we can grow spiritually and return to our Father in Heaven someday. That's what it's all about. We don't want all this concrete, physical evidence. Otherwise we'd all be "Mormons".
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Oh come on.. what a ridiculous example. I haven't heard anyone propose something so absurd in all my life. We have to name a few: geographical, physical, linguistic and textual evidence of the Bible. Are people forced to believe? No! People choose to accept or ignore the evidence for the Bible and as such, for God and His teaching. Your proposal is laughable and you really should be embarrassed by it!
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 What???? I can't believe this!! This is one of the things we've talked about alot in church, and it makes perfect sense to me!! Oh wow oh wow oh wow, this REALLY shows me that you don't understand, that you don't have the spirituality thing down at all!!! You know darn well that if those plates were here on earth, people would be FORCED to believe! Just like if Jesus came down and MADE everyone a Christian! We need to develop our faith and exercise our free agency!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - Cindy, are we forced to believe in the Aleppo Codex (c. 920 CE), Leningrad Codex (c. 1008 CE) the oldest Hebrew language manuscripts of the Tanakh. How about the Dead Sea Scrolls (Tanakh at Qumran)? No of course not. We are not forced to believe anything, irrespective of the hard physical evidence. But in this case we do. What nonsense to espouse 'physical evidence' does NOT have to be evident. WHAT they are telling you? You can tell they have no BOM evidence.
54v115 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - Your mormon teachers are telling you to remain thoughtless and indifferent. I'm really not the one with the problem here. What of Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook Plates? Have to believe?...what irresponsible tosh!
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 Yes, my Mormon teachers tell me to remain thoughtless and indifferent...thoughtless and indifferent...thoughtless and indifferent...(said like a robot)
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 shall we ignore your comment? Or would you rather explain to me why the Leadership tell you to toe the line and believe what they tell you, else suffer consequences... the most extreme consequence being excommunication?
54v115 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - what makes perfect sense to you?.. the church says to you believe anyway, the thinking has been done for you, the decisions have been made. So that's what you do? You believe without question, the various renditions of church history and transitory versions of the BOM Story and the BOM's amendments. No need for evidence to be evident? IF the church had ANY evidence to support it and it's claims.. it WOULD be ON SHOW for ALL the WORLD to SEE.
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 No, the thinking hasn't been done for me, etc. And no, that is not true about evidence. As I said, we couldn't have the plates right here on display in a museum, otherwise people would be FORCED to believe. If Jesus Himself came down and told us that the Bible is true, everybody would be FORCED to be a Christian. Would you want that? No. We have to exercise our free agency. That's what life is about.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 You need to read your own Leaders doctrine and matters of record before you comment.
EVERY cited piece of information I have presented to you is sourced from Mormon Sources and The Bible Canon. The LDS Church News came out with an article informing all members that if something is correlated, it is sanctioned. These are sanctioned by the LDS church, and you are instructed by the LDS church to believe them. If you don't like this News.. take it up with them! - What choice?
54v115 8 months ago
According to PhD psychologists anyone that believes in any religion or any sort of higher power is clinically insane and has severe issues of self-importance and grandeur.
grahamgeons 10 months ago
@grahamgeons - I'm a PhD Psychologist of 20 or so years and what you present as a universal fact is untrue and insecure.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Ouch got told by someone with an arts degree. Your clearly don't have a PhD as my comment comes from a place of total blissful security, even if you did the requirements for getting one is laughable. Try to do the actual science then come back and have a go.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - I attended University College London 1983 firstly for my BSc in Psychology, continued with my Masters and was awarded a Distinction. From there I secured my place on the MPhil programme which converted to PhD on successful continuance. In addition to this I continue with continued professional development at the Tavistock Institute. My credentials are secure and authentic You obviously cannot claim the same. You're position is one of ignorance and impotence.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Are you calling him impotent???
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 ..lol.. Not in the medical sense...
54v115 8 months ago
@grahamgeons - How do you explain Jesus Christ? Your comment comes from a school of thought and nothing more. Would you care to enlighten the readership which school of thought expounds this idea? How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician?
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Well I only have to answer one of those and it speaks for the rest. 95% of Scientists are Atheist, not a made up fact of any kind this is well known, 99.25% of American convicts are religious is some way. Do the math. I also have to ask just because it made me laugh, what makes you think I dirtied my hands with an arts degree?
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - percentages? How many Scientists are there? Your 'facts' are pretty thin...lol.what point are you hoping to make? Your sound bites carry little weight. Are you able to read with comprehension?.. I certainly didn't say you came from an arts background... you're not bright enough to hold a simple conversation. You haven't addressed the questions put to you. Care to enlighten us with your brilliance?
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 *Sigh* I have to point out the obvious, I can't argue a dictionary definition with you because it is a dictionary definition with no individual possibility of interpretation thus the assumption of the arts. Numbers are the only conclusive evidence if you had any scientific background you would know that. Jesus broke the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, google those laws they are absolute not some magical interpretation. Please link your PhD dissertation so I can have another laugh.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - do you really think you have the expert knowledge, advanced language, mathematical and scientific skills to read a Thesis of Psychology and not dissertation as you put it? I believe you'll struggle somewhat. you'll find dissertations are a first university degree level requirement. Your attempts to ridicule are pedestrian and immature. What are your qualifications? Nice round statistics 95% of all scientists are atheists? What is your degree of confidence?
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - still waiting for this brilliance of yours....
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 I can't teach you to be literate.... fail troll fail
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - still waiting Sam... explain your brilliance... How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician? Or are you a copy and paste kind of guy?
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Seeing as I never mentioned schizophrenia that question is redundant, insanity has been defined by people smarter then you or I so I don't have to define it oh wow that was so difficult. Next time you try and troll don't claim you have a PhD unless your willing to link your dissertation. Its clear your a tard because you took me saying insanity to specifically mean schizophrenia which obvious means you don't even have a BA in psychology. You tried hard but in the end you still failed.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - once again.. You have demonstrated your inability to appreciate the significance of what is being said to you. Thesis instead of dissertation. The subtleties of competing perspectives escape you. You proclamation steps away from you when you are fronted with the conditions of the abnormal mind. You cannot qualify your copy and paste statements when presented with, for example, schizophrenia, or when asked to define insanity in the terms of the clinician. Back to school with you.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 This is why I love the sciences it lets you cut right through all the bullshit and see the nasty truth which is that perceptions are actually worthless without scientific backing ie undeniable truths. Only a tard would say there is a difference between a thesis and a dissertation as they are the same thing. You should know both of these things if you actually had an education. Keep bringing up the same points over and over again gives me a few laughs in between doing a real degree.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons lol... once again... YOU make yourself sound less intelligent don't you?.. YOU haven't explained your proposal in terms sufficient to test your proposal. YOU don't grasp the notion of what science actually is..what is absolute and what isn't. YOU continue to display your ignorance... lol..as for your real degree.. you're only a graduand...lol.. care to share? What's your area of expertise? I'm waiting Sam.. STILL no explanation... avoid all you can.. prove your statement. lol
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of the ground you stand?
A dissertation or thesis is a document submitted in support of candidature for an academic degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings. In SOME countries/universities, the word "thesis" or a cognate is used as part of a bachelor's or master's course, while "dissertation" is normally applied to a doctorate, WHILE IN OTHERS, the reverse is TRUE. When you talk with a PhD know where he comes from.
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons Inside the academic community, the terms thesis and dissertation have very specific meanings. A thesis (Doctoral or Research Masters) is an argument that is created and then tested through research. A dissertation (first or second degree level), however, is the document that records this research and is submitted as evidence by an applicant for an academic qualification. So you don't know it all Sam. Not much at least.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Thank you! Finally your starting to get that without proven research you can't say anything. So perceptions don't mean shit! I can't believe you would contradict yourself and side with me in the end, what a wonderful conclusion. By the way everyone in the scientific community knows what a joke the arts are just ask one, we often use it to cheer ourselves up when we feel down. "Might as well kill half my brain cells and go do an arts degree"
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - Sam you're an idiot, worse still, you're an uneducated and opinionated idiot. You haven't got the benefit or credit of an Honours Degree level education, let alone anything higher and beyond your capability. Contradiction? What have you misunderstood now? You are unable to follow a discussion. What's with your compulsion with the Arts?..lol You introduced the Arts into this discussion. No.. As for killing your brain cells.. you can't afford to lose any.. better leave one alone.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Too late to go back Jack, still waiting to see that non existent dissertation have a nice life I'm loving mine.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - you really are an idiot.. No one is going back.. you've not managed to grasp the difference between dissertation and thesis... You still haven't explained your argument.. and you're not smart enough to read my works or published research... your happy as a pig in shit?..lol.. take time out to smell the coffee sam.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Why so serious Jack? Trying to convince yourself that your life means something by attempting to troll people you will never meet? At the end of the day we both know our worth and the others is irrelevant, unless you've got something to prove to yourself, that's why I'm so happy.
grahamgeons 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - start explaining your premise Sam.
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons A genetic researcher...lol... that explains it..lol
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - lol... your a lab technician..lol that explains many things.. happy standing at the bench, repeating the same ol' same ol'.... my life.. means many things to many people and most are happy with it.. as for yours... careful with your pipette...lol.. a lab rat... lol
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons - by the way.. lab rat.. still waiting for that explanation of your...
54v115 9 months ago
@grahamgeons If you were a Mormon, you wouldn't be casually using profanity like that! Just typing it on the Internet for all to see!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 You are correct, I am proud not to be a Mormon for very obvious reasons.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons Well all I can say is I'm sorry. All the people in the church that I know are proud to be Mormons and work hard to strengthen their testimonies, etc. It does have the fulness of the gospel. I can't imagine being a member of any other church.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Then don't be a member of any church, but don't listen to me ask your church how many of them are trying to cure cancer then ask the scientists who are trying to cure cancer what church they are apart of, you may be surprised.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons What kind of argument is THAT??? Wow, just when I thought I've heard everything, somebody tops it! Asking scientists who are trying to cure cancer what church they belong to. Oh brother.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Not an argument, go ask them you might learn something while talking to them, if not just hope you don't get cancer.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons I can't believe this!!! What does CANCER have to do with being a member of the Mormon church??? There are Mormons who get cancer and who go to regular doctors, etc. There are doctors in the LDS church, and scientists, and car mechanics and dentists!! Your comment doesn't make sense!!!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Name one, not a doctor or a mechanic or a dentist, name an organic chemist or medical researcher who is also a Mormon. Those are the ones inventing drugs to cure diseases, cancers just an example. I will then name all the atheist organic chemists/medical researchers and we can compare. I will have to give few examples as their are literally hundreds if not thousands.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons This is ridiculous and I'm not going to even participate in this discussion. One's occupation has nothing to do with whether or not the Mormon church is true or whether or not you are a member.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Couldn't find any? If myself and other scientists were part of your church we would still be living in the dark ages. But that's all in the past, now we can't be hanged for speaking against god the human race can finally advance. Thank you Richard Dawkins and other sensible scientists who are every day struggling to make a better future despite religion.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons You know, Mormons believe science and religion goes hand in hand. I know scientists in the LDS church. You are acting like because you are a scientist that you are so superior. That is just ridiculous.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Superior? According to your church I'm going to spend an eternity in spirit prison being tortured for all my "sins" while you live in a magical wonderland. Who has the superiority complex?
grahamgeons 8 months ago
@grahamgeons You will if you continue making these crazy comments to me! Lol. Seriously, that simply isn't true. Please learn the truth about the church.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 So I can do what with it? Have a laugh? Your religion may accept science but science doesn't accept your religion. If any scientist submitted a paper for peer review called "The God Theory" he/she would be laughed at by the entire scientific community as religion is faith without proof and science is empirical evidence above all else, if you can't prove it, it doesn't exist.
grahamgeons 8 months ago
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@grahamgeons - How does your statement apply to the abnormal mind in schizophrenia? Would you care to define insanity in the terms of the clinician? Or would you prefer something easier? I suggest you find yourself a real school and not spend so much time attending church dances... Your propositional logic, is found wanting.. perhaps you'd care to revisit De Morgans Law and develop at least a basic competence in data handling. Best of Luck Sam.
54v115 9 months ago
Prophets were not perfect, but they did not go for evil with all their might as J. Smith did.
The Smith "church" grows by using their welfare system as a hook to trap unfortunate people that are on hard times.
Smithites should help people without using their help as traps.
EarthRover 11 months ago
@EarthRover Nobody trapped me into joining the LDS Church. I studied, pondered and prayed all on my own, and THEN contacted the missionaries and told them I wanted to be baptised. That was over 30 years ago. I can't imagine being a member of any other church. Nobody has the fulness of the gospel.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
Prophets were not perfect, but they did not go for evil with all their might as J. Smith did.
The Smith "church" grows by using their welfare system as a hook to trap unfortunate people that are on hard times.
EarthRover 11 months ago
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true Christian church. We believe the Bible to be the word of God and live by it. We don't believe that only members go to Heaven. We believe all good people will go to Heaven : ) Go to lds.org or mormon.org to start discover the truth : )
liberty4all4life 1 year ago
@liberty4all4life all people? so you are saying if a your mother gets raped, the rapis will go to heaven too?
Chinaculiacan 11 months ago
@liberty4all4life - No it isn't. No you don't. No you shouldn't. No I won't.
54v115 9 months ago
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I think Joseph Smiths problem was spiritual. Demonic Possession. And I have a psych degree... JS was in opposition to God and that's a spiritual problem.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
I think Joseph Smiths problem was spiritual. Demonic Possession. And I have a psych degree....But JS was in opposition to God and that's a spiritual problem.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
Look up the definition of bipolar. Sounds like Joseph Smith. Glad I left that cult, but sorry it took me 50 years.
latterdaymystic 1 year ago
This guys a moron.
gubbnuts 1 year ago
You people do realize that Prophets are not perfect? Hello? Look at Moses, was he perfect? No, he had a speech impediment. God takes imperfect people, usually humble followers of him and he molds them into what He wants them to be. Remember what you can find out a true or a false prophet by their fruits. Look at the fruit of Joseph Smith. Look at where the Church of Jesus Christ is now and it keeps growing. It is the Lord's ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH
crxracer805 1 year ago
@crxracer805 The "fruit" of Joseph Smith? Lust, adultery, theft, destroying property (printing press), blasphemy, lies. All those kind will NOT enter the gates of heaven. He deceived many and built up Satan's kingdom on earth (the great and abominable). Bible says you would rather believe a lie, so God will send you strong delusion. Time to open your eyes and see he was the FALSE prophet prophesied about in scripture. I left that cult after 53 years. Take off the blinders.
latterdaymystic 1 year ago
@latterdaymystic Lies, lies, lies. All those were lies made up to defame Joseph Smith's name. Of course there will always be opposition to the true Church. There always has been. Only few believed the LORD himself. Some even thought he had a devil in him. It holds true for the LORD's prophets as well. I'm sorry you left the Church long ago. I'm sure you stopped praying and reading your scriptures. That's how we fall, by not doing the simple things.
omarchafa 1 year ago
This is so stupid.... It's true that Joseph's medical incident likely had a profound impact on him, but in a good way. There are many known cases of people who have went through some sort of "trauma" and coming out with amazing Gifts & Abilities. What you guys spin as a negative thing, was instead the beginning of his taping into the things of God. Seeing beyond time. etc. How the heck do you people think Prophets become prophets, in some box???
leeuniverse 1 year ago
joseph smith was like the JK rowling of that time, the only problem was, he made the imaginary reality, Ithink somenoes abit coo coo
chicky21688 1 year ago
Why tecey is it a lie? You dont trust doctors? Just magic tricks like ol Joey? Truth hurt?
WJensen666 2 years ago
mohammed and joey smith!!WHAT A COMBO!lol
uiwqe 2 years ago
what a bunch of lies- very unintelligent on your part
teceyS3 2 years ago
Mental Health Medicine to day is still trial and error and by the way please do your research on the profession before you give false and unsupported claims. There are people born in poverty just like me and I was 5th of 7 and was born with a huge mental capacity yet I couldn't write a book like the Book of Mormon. Not only that EVIDENCE now found shows the Book of Mormon relates to Mid-east areas and related names. Something he wouldn't be able to produce without Truth
PLFLO26 2 years ago
GOD BLESS YOU SHAWN.....I've done my best to try and lead LDS *friends* of mine to your web site; but that's all I can do...I just don't understand, more than anything; after hearing Jesus & satan were spiritual brothers; what more proof would they need to see this is a FALSE RELIGION? Keep up you awesome testimonies Shawn; God Bless you
GratefulChristian 2 years ago
@GratefulChristian Oh come on, there are REASONS behind this "spritual brothers" thing. When I was investigating the LDS church over 30 years ago, I learned all about that, and it made sense to me, as did the other doctrines of the Church. But of course things are taken out of context and distorted, and people think Mormons are a wacky cult. It's so frustrating. Oh well.
cindybin2001 9 months ago
whoa. i consider myself a very intuitive person and always thought that after reading joseph smith history that it was a blue print for schizophrenic in the very least. thank you so much for this :)
plann99 2 years ago
Comment removed
Boudica09 2 years ago
Saw the title MEntal Issues and started laughing my @ss off.
uSoBayArea 2 years ago 2
Its not so strange that someone with a mental illness would create a "religion." What is strange, is that so many people would follow it, despite the fact that the True Book, which it borrows many of its characters and names from, deny this false cult, others would adamantly follow it. This is hard to comprehend.
BreshiBaraElohim 2 years ago 12
@BreshiBaraElohim some people think christianity is a cult and a book of tall tails.. just sayin
chunkballfairycake 1 year ago
@chunkballfairycake As a 50 year member of that cult, I see the light and am leaving as are many now that the "secrets" are out in the open now . They brainwash children their whole lives, break up "forever" families and still lie even to their own members to strengthen the church. If you should ever leave "the fold" you are called an apostate and lied about and they encourage your own family to shun you. That's religion? WWJD?
latterdaymystic 1 year ago
@latterdaymystic I'm a convert to the LDS church and was never "brainwashed" into believing anything. I had lots of questions when I first investigated the LDS church over 30 years ago--as an ADULT, not a child. I did research on my own and found the answers. There's nothing secret and nobody lies to me or anyone else.
cindybin2001 9 months ago
@cindybin2001 - converts have completely different experiences than those who were indoctrinated into the church as children. Converts have free will to choose to be mormon; those who are born to a mormon family have no free will to choose for themselves and have to go through hell to extricate themselves from the religion if it doesn't mesh well with their spirituality.
enigmatically 8 months ago
@enigmatically Even people raised in the church have free will to accept or reject the gospel. I raised two sons in the church exactly alike; one is married and active in the church, the other couldn't care less. He didn't know what was going on even when he was baptised at age 8--we could see it in his eyes. He may accept the gospel someday, maybe he won't. Who knows. But we as parents have to make an EFFORT to raise our children right.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - force feeding indoctrination down one's children's throats is simply not raising children right. I take offense when parents force their 2 year olds who can barely speak to stand in front of the podium in front of the entire congregation and repeat what their parent whispers in their ear about "knowing" that Joe Smith was a prophet. I'm sorry but 2 year olds do not know anything and that is pure and simple brainwashing.
enigmatically 8 months ago
@enigmatically Oh come on, of course two-year-olds don't understand what they are doing. But parents have to make an effort and TRY to raise their kids right. What else should they do? Take them to a Catholic church or Lutheran church where they're raised to think nothing is wrong with drinking booze? And where they think Mormons are racist and sexist, etc.? Parents have to at least try.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - I also take offense about 8 year olds being the "age of consent". Would you let an 8 year old stay at home alone for the weekend with no supervision? Would you let an eight year old drive a car, or have sex? I think not. So why then is an 8 year old apparently mature enough to make the most important decision of their life regarding spirituality, when they are not old enough to make mature decisions about anything else? It's brainwashing, pure and simple.
enigmatically 8 months ago
@enigmatically As I've said before, 8 is the age where most children are accountable. Of course we don't leave them alone then, etc. And everybody is different. It's not brainwashing, it is just teaching them correct doctrines, trying to help them live the gospel. They still have to grow up and accept or reject it, develop their OWN testimony, etc. My two sons were both baptised at 8 and one is active, the other isn't. Everyone has to decide for themself and study and ponder and pray.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 - mormon brainwashing has traumatized me and has brought me to the brink of suicide many times, you just gloss over the serious issues with your cult because you don't want to believe that it is not for everyone. Parents should give their children free will not force them to go to seminary and do scripture study every morning or be shunned and treated like an outcast for not feeling the "magical heartburn". And the temple ceremonies are pretty creepy too.
enigmatically 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@enigmatically I'm very sorry you have been so depressed or upset over the church. That isn't good. Of course this is not what the gospel is about. It should HELP people. As for parents "forcing" their children to go to things, it's just what a parent does. My parents "forced" me to go to Bible classes for the Episcopalian church when I was a youth! Did it stick? Not really. We are free to accept or reject.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@enigmatically May I ask, What about mormonism gave you suicidal thoughts?
stevejames1012 1 month ago
@BreshiBaraElohim I'm a convert to the LDS church and resent what you said. I find that the LDS church helps answer our questions about life, and gives us a set of gospel principles to live by. It helps us learn and grow spiritually, which is needed in this life.
cindybin2001 9 months ago
@cindybin2001: Of course you "resent" what I said. That is because your faith is ultimately about you, as all good false paths must make it, not about the truth. Anyone can be given a set of principles, and convinced they are based on the gospel, even Muslim following Mohamed and killing Christians believe that they are following the true gospel of Jesus Christ. At some point, you must consider the truth, which is probably why you watched this video, you are considering.
BreshiBaraElohim 9 months ago
@BreshiBaraElohim It figures. Here I try to help you understand why you are offending people, and to dispel some misconceptions about the church, etc., and you just put me down and act like I'm the looney one. Oh well, I tried.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001: If the truth offends you, then that is YOUR problem. The comment you commented on was a sincere attempt to understand the situation, you did absolutely NOTHING to help me understand why you follow teachings which are clearly contrary to the teachings of Christ, rather you try and make me feel guilty for seeking to understand. And i never put you down, or acted like you were "looney," to the contrary, i treated you with respect, and suggested you were intelligent.
BreshiBaraElohim 8 months ago
@BreshiBaraElohim Again, please read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrande Richards, or talk to a missionary.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001: Again? Perhaps you are thinking of someone else you said this to.
In any case, it seems there is nothing more to say.
BreshiBaraElohim 8 months ago
watch?v=iBNOc5Ifogc
BreshiBaraElohim 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 no single church can answer questions on life. thats what the BIBLE is for. not any certain church.
WhyIAm7 9 months ago
@WhyIAm7 It's true that no single church can answer all questions on life. In the LDS church we are the first to admit we don't know all the answers. And yes, the Bible DOES answer alot of questions. There is one true church, though. And the LDS church has additional scripture and latter-day revelation that helps shed light on many of the difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. It really does help explain things.
cindybin2001 9 months ago
@cindybin2001 there is no one true church. your church is the FALSE church. the Bible does not answer a lot, it answers all we need. there is no true additional scripture. it is false. beyond false. i could dig up some tablets and translate them however i wanted, and you would believe me?? if you need more "scripture" then the Bible, it is not a true church.
WhyIAm7 9 months ago
@WhyIAm7 Oh okay, I'll tell my Bishop that some person on the Internet said our church is false. THAT will make a huge difference! Lol. Seriously though, it is up to each individual to discover the truth for their own. You have to ponder and pray and ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. That's what I did over 30 years ago. I can't imagine being in any other church, knowing what I know about the LDS church. None of the others have the fulness of the gospel.
cindybin2001 9 months ago
@cindybin2001 you don't pray to God to ask him if something is right when it OBVIOUSLY isn't in scripture. your gonna pray to God and ask him if killing someone is right. Or pray to God to ask him if stealing is right. because scripture covers that they're not. proverbs 5 and 6. “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."
WhyIAm7 9 months ago
@WhyIAm7 Oh okay, I'll pass it along...
cindybin2001 9 months ago
@cindybin2001 Cindy, Tom Cruise hd a wonderful prayerful moment where he discovered Scientology to be true... The problem is, much like Mormonism... none of the stuff found in that churches belief system are present in the historical record. Isn't it funny how we can discover Dinosaurs, Wooly Mammoths, Massive Indian Civilizations, Etc... but nothing of this massive society only 1,300 years old and was only 800 years removed when Europeans settled here. Not to even get into the DNA issue.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Well thank you for enlightening me. I shall tell my Bishop that "kevinjppark" of the Internet informed me that the LDS church isn't true because of all these reasons he stated, and he will be shocked! He will inform the higher-ups and I'm sure the church will be disbanded immediately!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Enlightenment doesn't come from me. First three lies of Satan in scripture, 1. "You can be like gods" (Check, LDS claims that), 2. "Did God really say that?" (Another LDS Check, The Bible is true IN SO FAR IT'S CORRECTLY TRANSLATED), & 3. "Did God really mean that?" (Final LDS Check, "Lets look at this other book for ideas."). Don't make the mistake of trying to build up "filthy rags" in false glory. Glory only comes in the finished work of Jesus Christ - the ONLY blood attonement.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Yes, I know about these doctrines. I read all this stuff over 30 years ago when I was first investigating the LDS church. Why do people think Mormons don't know anything?
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 No I fully believe you know some of these things and zeal, but the Mormon Church teaches to establish your own righteousness. Just as Romans 10:2-4 says: 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark What do these scriptures have to do with "disproving" the LDS church? They make sense to me!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 It describes a people with a zeal for God, but it's not based on knowledge. They go on trying to build up their own works. They haven't raised up their hands and said, "There is no way I'm capable of doing these things". For example goto Matthew 5. It's an impossible standard. The MAIN point of the passage is to CONVICT you by the Law. Mormons take communion in a promise that this week they'll live up to the law. Christians take communion because they ARE SINNERS and NEVER COULD.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Mormons don't build up their own works. We know we can never be perfect. I don't know why people have such a problem with this simple concept. All this debate over faith and works and grace and all that. Sheesh. I read this stuff over 30 years ago when I was investigating the church and it all made perfect sense to me. My husband isn't even LDS and he understands it.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 If you understood grace why are you still yoked to the Law? Why if someone in your ward was smoking a cigar public, long hair, or drinking wine, or wasn't giving a tithe could they lose their temple recommend? Why do you ignore Jesus talking to the Woman at the Well (John 4) when he says the hour is near where you won't worship God in physical temple, but in the spirit of truth. How could Mormonism be true if it's still yoked to some specific temple, precepts, and works?
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark I'm not "yoked to the Law"? And there's nothing wrong with living to certain standards in order to get a Temple recommend. You can't let just ANYBODY in. But that doesn't mean you are "yoked to the law." Oh brother. And of course we worship God in the spirit of truth. That's what it's all about. But I suppose you will say, "No, it's not." Sigh...
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Rereading: Line 1 you affirm your not yoked. Sentence 2 you describe a yoke of "certain standards for a Temple recommend". Line 3 you affirm it's organizational control, that's no different then the Sanhedrin's position in Jesus time. Line 4 you then go back to the claim the doesn't mean you are yoked, but without a Temple recommend Mormon's can't get to the highest level of heaven. Line 5 Refer again to Romans 10:2-4. Jesus NEVER lobbied for a temple system in the New Testament
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Well we have the restored gospel now. That's why we have this.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 So you restored the Gospel from Jesus and his own teachings? Seeing you don't even argue the FACT that Jesus time and time again is against the Temple system, I'll take that as a yes. The call of the New Testament is away from the old sacrificial rights, and to be covered by his blood and HIS WORK and rest in HIM. That's the most honest thing you've said during this entire thing. I entirely and completely agree. You have restored the PRISON of Jewish law and not fulfilling it.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Oh for Pete's sake. That doesn't make sense at all. Anyway, as I said, we can argue and argue till the cows come home, and as long as the Spirit isn't present, you'll never understand. When I was investigating the church years ago, I took Moroni's Promise and asked the Lord if it was true. I simply cannot imagine being a member of any other church.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Why does the "Temple" exclude members due to works when the Gospel says NO ONE is justified by WORKS. Why would Mormonism teach exclusion by works, if it was Christian? It's not, Romans 10:2-4.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Yes, I know. Again, why do people have such trouble with this faith and works thing?? It's just so simple! It's a good thing to set certain standards to get into the Temple. But that doesn't mean you base salvation on works alone. That's not it at all. If you have faith in Christ, chances are works or your actions are going to follow--you're not going to just sit like a lump or go out and murder people. It's all about faith in Christ. We do not "work our way to heaven".
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Cindy you can't agree with the idea that people are excluded from the Temple and HENCE access to the Celestial Kingdom for things such as long hair, improper tithing, dress, and still believe in Grace. God's Grace is either Grace = Salvation + Works OR IT IS Works + Grace = Salvation. One says God's Grace is entirely and completely sufficient. The other says God's Grace is insufficient in itself to save me. PS John The Baptist by appearance wouldn't have been Mormon Temple worthy.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark I understand what you are saying but you are misinterpreting things. It's just so simple. Again, I don't know why people get so hung up on this concept, and then think the entire church is a sham or cult or something.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Cindy there is no misinterpretation. That's why you can't dive into the Bible and counter the scripture I can present from just scripture. I would never dream to goto a Jew and say "Your Scripture is true - in so far as it's correctly translated". Now I could goto the messianic predictions of the Old Testament to a Jew and say "See that really was fulfilled in Jesus", but I would never say the premise was faulty. Joseph Smith couldn't keep that same standard because it's CONTRARY.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Oh for heaven's sake. Here I try to nicely explain things to you so you'll understand and stop putting down the church and hopefully investigate it and see for yourself that it is true, and it's like talking to a wall! A WALL!!! Why do I even BOTHER??? Internet People are so frustrating.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Again, you fail to make an argument out of Scripture, because all you know are meetings where you bare "heartfelt" testimony, and you don't know the word of God. After that you do weekly perjury to "god" where you claim before you take communion you'll not sin
All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever.' And this is the word that was preached to you," (1 Pet. 1:24-25)
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark We study scripture all the time. That's what Gospel Doctrine class is for. I even read it on my own!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Once again you fail to cite any scripture to defend yourself. Okay new question, Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets seeing the made multiple prophecies that were unfulfilled?
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Oooh, these questions are too deep. I'm going to go watch Antiques Road Show now. Nice talking with you, and I hope you find the answers! : )
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 You'd think for 30 years in your "amazing" church you could actually answer some of these things with scripture. Next question Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Were Joseph Smith revelations just true, in so far as he correctly translated himself?
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Have you read The Ensign? They answer alot of these questions. Also, a good book is A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrande Richards. It helped me so much when I was investigating the Church all those years ago. And then as always, there are alot of things we just don't know. But that doesn't mean the church isn't true.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Why does the Mormon Church teach that we can be married in heaven when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
How do you rationalize that?
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Good question--this is addressed in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder. That's what I like about that book, it uses Biblical references to help explain the doctrines of the Church.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Then cite those references. Once again about 18 messages into our discussion and still no desire to cite actual passages. I'll continue asking questions in a hope one of them will actually spur some scriptural citation: If your leaders are correct about the complete falling away of the true church on earth, was Jesus in error when he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)?
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark I'm not up on quote scripture--in other words I don't have passages memorized and which verse they are, etc. Alot of people DO, though.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Cindy why doesn't that concern you 30 years in? Seriously. Here you stand with a statement of an additional testament and you can't quote scripture that supports an idea a 3rd testament was coming. Feelings is what Tom Cruise has. Feelings aren't what you base eternity on. If someone told you one of two cars had no brakes on it and you won't be able to stop, would you pick a car based on feelings? No you would investigate both cars. Over a Billion Christians are worth investigating
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 Let me also add Cindy, Read the Gospel of John in one sitting. Then another night read the book of Romans in one sitting. Just do those two things. Please I compel you. Neither would take you longer to read then watching some junk movie would. If you can read them yourself, prayerfully, without interruption you may be blessed by then. Even if it just deepens your belief that Joseph Smith was correct in his claims. If the BOM is true, all it should do is strengthen your resolve.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Me read the Bible??? Why that is absurd! I'm a Mormon! I don't believe in that evil book! Why, I don't even have one in the house! Lol. Seriously, what makes you think I haven't read the Bible or these books in one sitting? We study the Bible all the time in the LDS church. Again, there are things in the Bible that are misunderstood by mainstream Christian churches. Read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, it helps explain some of those passages.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@cindybin2001 What are some passages that you find evil in the New Testament? Seeing you now claim to be well read in it. Can you cite some passages in the New Testament that are evil? I will say though you need to reread what you wrote next time you are flabbergasted at the idea no established Christian Church believes you are Christian. Maybe your Moroni Test isn't too strong if two books within the New Testament Joseph Smith claimed to build upon are too evil to read.
kevinjppark 8 months ago
@kevinjppark Oh quit twisting and turning everything I say. Just admit the church is true. Come on, admit it! Hehe...
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@WhyIAm7 I am just so glad you told me this. I had no idea!
cindybin2001 8 months ago
@WhyIAm7 It's the the CHURCH. It is the Bible, and the Book of Mormon which helps explain some of the more difficult-to-understand passages in the Bible. I'm a convert to the LDS church and we do have the fulness of the Gospel. But yes, it all comes down to the Bible and other scriptures.
cindybin2001 8 months ago
As a mental-health professional, I find this is extremely interesting...
nmbygracethroughfaith blogspot
nathanielmacrae 2 years ago 3
Please provide credentials to your claim.
PLFLO26 2 years ago
BA(Hons) in Music Therapy, MSc Psychiatric Nursing, MA Family & Systemic Psychotherapy....
Does that sound alright?
nathanielmacrae 2 years ago
yeah, WW Phelps knew the brute force of Joseph Smith's revenge.......
omiolo 2 years ago
All the strange things Joseph Smith did he seemed mentally ill. Looking in a hat?Thanks for all this info. That is so true about kids in large families. lol
ddiiaa52 2 years ago 7