i take care of some 3 story apts, they are 35 yrs old 44 units per bldg. i get pinhole leaks like this every year come winter. only on the hot water pipes. pain in the but.!!!
not "Ken" from protech plumbing again breaking out the fancy leak detecting equipment to find a leak in the floor ,then breaking up costumers floor (2 big buck things rip off wannabe plumbers do)then on top of it failing to fix the leak and mentioning the house should be repiped and saying "oh well" .... good going Ken way to show the costumer you care
By and large, many of the videos that Protech has posted on plumbing techniques are valid. This cat knows his trade. Good thing about trade talk... is most of the 13 year old haters don't have a clue there is even SUCH a thing as plumbing... Which also leads us to the current problem of our youth... They don't care. But, back to the trades. Keep up the good work Protech!
By proxy, the copper is the 'sacraficial lamb' as it harbours some of the basic elements that 'conditioned water' desires. and over time... both electrolosis, and 'farming' of elements of the parent material of copper, weakens the already thin walls of the 'M' type copper pipe and fittings. Notwithstanding, that piping practices that Protech mentioned.
Like Protech and Ozone mentioned... turbulence is an influence on copper with out question... however, water condition is a larger influence. We see the results in our refrigeration systems as the result of improper piping practice... but in plumbing, the rules change somewhat. (and for obvious different reasons) Electrolosis and water that is purified, will cause more anomolies due to it's affinity to it's base elements of minerals.
I'd be thinking just like Protech... pin holes do happen, especially if you disturb old copper. You can chase these leaks all day long, or as long as your customer is willing to pay. Pex and shark bites aren't necessarily a 'temporary fix'... they work under many situations, as long as your local codes allow them. Do what's practical for your customer, and ensure that it's as good as the old style copper.
An extremely high sulfer gas content in the well water will cause the copper pipes to turn black and corrode from inside out. I had to replace several sections of pipe at a customers home. All the copper pipes in this house were black. The sections I replaced had small pinholes in them. The sulfer content in the water was so bad, it smelled like rotten eggs.
@mrstrictlygm The pipe in question was connected to city water and did not have high sulfur content. The inside walls of the pipe were tuberculated with green deposits . Chlorine was at 3-4ppm, PH was 8 to 8.2. I suspect aluminum solids suspended in the water from the treatment process (coagulation/flocculation) are the cause of the problem in this particular home.
That is what happens when the copper pipe does not get reamed after cutting with a tubing cutter. That ridge creates a turbulence that wears away on the backside of were it was cut. Seen it many times...
That isn't what caused this leak. The pipe was uniformly corroded even great distances from fittings. Typically erosion-corrosion from the lack of reaming is localized at the point where the pipe was not reamed. You will usually see undercut rings where the pipe has been worn away on the inside. In this cause it looks more like a contaminant in the water supply.
The leak that appeared next to the pex adaptor happened right then, and was not from cavitation/impingement.
Every single sink in my house cold water line has developed these pinholes. I can't figure it out as the rest of the copper system is ok and looks good. Just the cold water feeder lines that went to my sinks all did this. The hot water lines are perfect and I actually crimped them to reduce water consumption since they don't have valves. My reapaired line I installed valves though. I find it odd as to why only the cold feeder lines?
In some parts of the country (USA) they don't. I don't unless the situation warrants it (high temperatures or pressures). Copper Can last a very long time if the water quality is checked before it is installed and if the pipe is installed properly. If the pie is not reamed and/or corrosive flux is left inside the pipe the system can fail in 10 years. That being said, I've seen many properly installed copper systems that were over 60 years old with no leaks.
PEX and CPVC can fail to if not installed correctly. Don't blame the material, blame the plumber who didn't do his job when he designed and built the system.
Pay $2500 now or $6500 later. While the owner is probably going to want to take the cheaper route, it will most likely cost about triple to do the job over again later. Even if he sells the house, it will not pass static testing or if the new owner comes up with trouble later he will sue the past owner for not disclosing the problem. Any way you look at it, it's a whole lot cheaper to just reroute everything now. Tell the owner he can make back a couple hundred in scrap copper, cheap asss.
I had that conversation with him for about 20 minutes. He was about to let the house go back to the bank as he couldn't afford it. He basically said "I've got this much money, are you going to fix the leak or do I need to call someone else?".
Why not just replace the whole pipe instead of just sections here and there. The old pipe will eventually fail and the owner will just have to tear up the floor again.
i take care of some 3 story apts, they are 35 yrs old 44 units per bldg. i get pinhole leaks like this every year come winter. only on the hot water pipes. pain in the but.!!!
ak7wyf 7 months ago
not "Ken" from protech plumbing again breaking out the fancy leak detecting equipment to find a leak in the floor ,then breaking up costumers floor (2 big buck things rip off wannabe plumbers do)then on top of it failing to fix the leak and mentioning the house should be repiped and saying "oh well" .... good going Ken way to show the costumer you care
PLAYBOYBONES 8 months ago
first of all, you're not suppose to have sweat or pex connections underground.....only flared and mechanical joints......thats the national code,
tommyk623 1 year ago
By and large, many of the videos that Protech has posted on plumbing techniques are valid. This cat knows his trade. Good thing about trade talk... is most of the 13 year old haters don't have a clue there is even SUCH a thing as plumbing... Which also leads us to the current problem of our youth... They don't care. But, back to the trades. Keep up the good work Protech!
kurohyou07 1 year ago
By proxy, the copper is the 'sacraficial lamb' as it harbours some of the basic elements that 'conditioned water' desires. and over time... both electrolosis, and 'farming' of elements of the parent material of copper, weakens the already thin walls of the 'M' type copper pipe and fittings. Notwithstanding, that piping practices that Protech mentioned.
kurohyou07 1 year ago
Like Protech and Ozone mentioned... turbulence is an influence on copper with out question... however, water condition is a larger influence. We see the results in our refrigeration systems as the result of improper piping practice... but in plumbing, the rules change somewhat. (and for obvious different reasons) Electrolosis and water that is purified, will cause more anomolies due to it's affinity to it's base elements of minerals.
kurohyou07 1 year ago
I'd be thinking just like Protech... pin holes do happen, especially if you disturb old copper. You can chase these leaks all day long, or as long as your customer is willing to pay. Pex and shark bites aren't necessarily a 'temporary fix'... they work under many situations, as long as your local codes allow them. Do what's practical for your customer, and ensure that it's as good as the old style copper.
kurohyou07 1 year ago
An extremely high sulfer gas content in the well water will cause the copper pipes to turn black and corrode from inside out. I had to replace several sections of pipe at a customers home. All the copper pipes in this house were black. The sections I replaced had small pinholes in them. The sulfer content in the water was so bad, it smelled like rotten eggs.
mrstrictlygm 1 year ago
@mrstrictlygm The pipe in question was connected to city water and did not have high sulfur content. The inside walls of the pipe were tuberculated with green deposits . Chlorine was at 3-4ppm, PH was 8 to 8.2. I suspect aluminum solids suspended in the water from the treatment process (coagulation/flocculation) are the cause of the problem in this particular home.
ProTechPlumbing 9 months ago
That is what happens when the copper pipe does not get reamed after cutting with a tubing cutter. That ridge creates a turbulence that wears away on the backside of were it was cut. Seen it many times...
ozone39 2 years ago
That isn't what caused this leak. The pipe was uniformly corroded even great distances from fittings. Typically erosion-corrosion from the lack of reaming is localized at the point where the pipe was not reamed. You will usually see undercut rings where the pipe has been worn away on the inside. In this cause it looks more like a contaminant in the water supply.
The leak that appeared next to the pex adaptor happened right then, and was not from cavitation/impingement.
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago
Every single sink in my house cold water line has developed these pinholes. I can't figure it out as the rest of the copper system is ok and looks good. Just the cold water feeder lines that went to my sinks all did this. The hot water lines are perfect and I actually crimped them to reduce water consumption since they don't have valves. My reapaired line I installed valves though. I find it odd as to why only the cold feeder lines?
JISINSANE 2 years ago
Not enough information to make a diagnosis.
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago
Question, With cooper so expensive and prone to this why do they stil use it?
JISINSANE 2 years ago
In some parts of the country (USA) they don't. I don't unless the situation warrants it (high temperatures or pressures). Copper Can last a very long time if the water quality is checked before it is installed and if the pipe is installed properly. If the pie is not reamed and/or corrosive flux is left inside the pipe the system can fail in 10 years. That being said, I've seen many properly installed copper systems that were over 60 years old with no leaks.
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago
PEX and CPVC can fail to if not installed correctly. Don't blame the material, blame the plumber who didn't do his job when he designed and built the system.
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago
Pay $2500 now or $6500 later. While the owner is probably going to want to take the cheaper route, it will most likely cost about triple to do the job over again later. Even if he sells the house, it will not pass static testing or if the new owner comes up with trouble later he will sue the past owner for not disclosing the problem. Any way you look at it, it's a whole lot cheaper to just reroute everything now. Tell the owner he can make back a couple hundred in scrap copper, cheap asss.
douglas787 2 years ago
I had that conversation with him for about 20 minutes. He was about to let the house go back to the bank as he couldn't afford it. He basically said "I've got this much money, are you going to fix the leak or do I need to call someone else?".
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago
Why not just replace the whole pipe instead of just sections here and there. The old pipe will eventually fail and the owner will just have to tear up the floor again.
douglas787 2 years ago
Because that costs more money and the homeowner was not willing/able to pay for a line bypass.
ProTechPlumbing 2 years ago