Haha I love all these people who don't know what Dave is all about. you are all dickheads! haha. but really smashing on atmel is usually pretty common. Microchip gives you more options in chips and at cheaper costs. PIC chips have all kinds of amazing interfaces built right into the chips for cheap.
I've apparently not been paying attention to the hobbyist market. I've never cared about who makes a μcontroller any more than I'd care about who makes a resistor.
I'm frankly surprised there's a fanboy war between μcontrollers; there's such a huge range of capabilities from any one manufacturer; seeing fanboys focus on the virtues of a particular model vs. anything else is usually an apples to oranges comparison at best.
That much emotional investment for a part that costs <$5 is insane.
Awesome review and you're totally right! Real engineers don't stick to one micro manufacturer but try out different stuff!
I used to stick to PIC's in the beginning, but that's because they were the most available at the local electronics store, but later I found out about Cypress' PSoC, NXP's LPC and they quite beat in features both PICs and AVRs, even though they are not so widely known.
It would be a good idea to make a vlog about various microcontroller types and list some pros and cons.
@EEVblog I started of with PIC micros cause the were the frist one i cam across , Since i'm on a low budget i got a prebuildt JDM programmer WITH ICSP header, i also got 10 pic 12F683 chips to play around with. Since i'm a LINUX guy i had to run mplab trough wine and i used picprog to program the chip .. I later got to know about mplabX witch is a linux based version and i wil give it a try .. i might look into the AVR later but i will use PIC's to get a hang of the mcu basics..
Very funny! I feel your pain when it comes to fanbois, they're just so bloody tiresome aren't they? I rather guessed that would be your stance on it and I quite agree! Anyone who thinks their one idea can conqueror all is just plain delusional. I try to reassure myself with the thought that thankfully the argument of PIC/AVR is a fairly harmless one, and the more we can get the single-minded zealots arguing over insignificant stuff, then hopefully they'll stay away from the important stuff! :D
Anyone of you Arduino-only freaks (Or PIC-only freaks for that matter) out there who feels offended by those who think you are a "dickhead"? Simply respond to them like "Maybe I am to you, but you addresing me like you did will never make me changing my mind or image about myself."
What micro controller would you use if you had to convert 96 "analog" switches and 16 push-pull potentiometers to 112 different MIDI NRPN signals? (a MIDI NRPN is a value sent on the MIDI number reserved for sending such values.)
PIC vs. AVR vs. 8051, 68hc... is not really a dilemma. Professionals should be familiar with all of them and for a hobbist like me, what matters is availability and what people around you use so you can get some help if needed. Nowadays, they are all easy to use if you have an IQ bigger than your shoe size number.Personally I stuck with an 8051 twenty years ago and never looked at PIC or AVR - there was no need (although one day I'd like to try ARM when time allows).Thanks for your great videos.
in terms of 32 bit development, i've found the pic32 platform very limited. usually in 32 bit development, ARM is awesome because of the massive amount of dev tools available (keil, iar, atollic, etc). with pic32's mips m4k, its linux gnu and mplab only. other grievances are the 20 MHz single cycle flash on their highest chip, and horrid documentation organization, where every single peripheral is its own pdf among 10s of other pdfs, all not downloadable as a single package. i could go on...
If you want to compare corporate sites, Atmel's can be impossible to navigate with broken links and circular links that lead you back to where you started. Microchips site is a little easier to navigate but very bloated.
Third party sites however are a bit reverse. AVRFreaks is by far easier to navigate and find what you're looking for vs piclist which looks more like it suffered a catastrophic failure. And even though Microchip has its own forums, they don't always have the answers you need
I'd love to use my Arduino or TI Launchpad to program some PICs on Linux (preferably with gcc) just to save 40 bucks while I'm deciding whether to buy a PICKit too or not. Is there any solution someone here's using?
i haven't try pic yet but i'm using atmel with the DIY DASA programer which consists of 3 resistors and 3 zeners conected to the serial cable and had 0 problems programing my atmega8, i think nothing can beat this in price :P
gcc-avr comes witn ubuntu so just a matter of double clicking and installing
Pretty good video, one of the less biases reviews i have seen between pic and avr. I would like to note that the determining factor for some people is OS support (linux/osx) and availability of DIP chips. As PIC is great on windows, but horrible on Linux, and AVR is the other way around. As far as third party programmers go, on the AVR side the usbtiny and it's various incarnations are as good or better than ATMELs programmer.
nobody say anything about the cypress, they are pretty good! i have been working a little with them , and the have some good features for the bengineers like free tool's , cheap programmer (without ICD :( ), and good official documentacion like the microchips datasheets and AN. i think like you dave, everyone have some advantages and disadvantages. btw im your fan dave great vblog!! Saludos!
I agree with you too that microchip seems to be one up on atmel. I've recently used both atmel and microchip mcus, and I think you should mention the pretty cool free software library support that Microchip provides (the MAL) - free USB stack, tcp/ip, graphics, android etc etc. It's really useful. As far as software tools are concerned I thought AVR studio was much better than MPLAB. MPLAB x is an improvement tho. But yea those fuse bits in Atmel are quite scary..
Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm a beginner and will try to learn and use several manufacturer's , starting with Microchip, an easy way to step frist in this world of MCU's but there's nothing to be pushed to one in particular when you can provide yourself of all marvellous posibilities
@Darrengb Yes, I know the differences. They are way too many and detailed to list in any blog. And the differences can be anywhere from huge deal-breakers, to of no importance at all depending upon your particular application.
@Darrengb It depends of what you are going to use it for and if you want a product that has a longevity (spare parts, upgradable etc, you do not want to discontinue a product just because a micro controller factory went out of business)
My opinion will be to go for Atmel, Even though I started with PIC because of a huge amount of Info available on the same but if you are planing to develop a project then you can save a good amount of money when you go for Atmel rather than PIC..
ok you ar real pic fan boy some corections bout avr,
1.stk500 has ISP external target
2.about DIY programers, ok if your budget for working is max 100€ and about 60€ are parts for project, how the hell am i going to buy 50€ programer, also have you ever realized there are some high quality usb programer schematics on internet? you can even upgrade them like i did.
3.ok whats 4 times slower thats nothing!
4.ok im going to use 16-32bit family just to make some lets say 15 MHz transfer pprotocol
how come no one is using the intel 8051 series microcontrollers these days? I think Atmel and STC makes 8051 now. I haven't touched any microcontrollers other than the AT89C51 and PicAXE.
I more like STM32 MUC's which are even more cheaper and have more peripherials than modern PIC's and at all just now Chinese friends are not able to extract STM32 when AVR & PIC can be dumped for very low price so from my side is to avoid MSP430, PIC, AVR cuz of extraction possibilities - I saw so many multimeters chinese done using reverse engeenering of fluke hex also one of product which was reviewed (It's not fluke) I see few days ago perfect copy ready to send (magic of dumped MSP430).
@hisense999 Hey dude, I'd like some advice. I'm a hobbist and I want to start using STM32 MCUs but I have no idea how hard is it to write code for them and burn them. Can I just burn standalone chips using a usb-to-rs232 adapter, or do I need to buy a expensive chip burner? Do they have free decent full-featured IDEs, or do they have any limitation (such as the size of the program)? Is it hard to develop for them using linux? Also, do you have any other tips? Thanks in advance! :D
@hisense999 That's what I've been doing for the last few weeks, but I'm still undecided. Usually it helps to have opinions directly from people who are already "on the other side". Thanks, anyway. :)
Call me a fanboy if you want, but programming AVRs with WINAVR is a much better experience than any I've ever had with PIC chips. Is there a decent free C compiler for PIC?
Atmel did actually make a profit in 2010 according to wikipedia (this may be false info, but I shouldn't imagine that they'd have not made profit, otherwise they'd have been in a worse position than now). Oh yes, I am bloomin' glad that someone else doesn't like fanboys! The PIC vs. AVR thing is even worse than the Xbox 360 vs PS3 thing (which I don't get either).
If I had to advise a beginner then I'd recommend PIC (just) because of the better support and better documentation. It doesn't mean PIC is better though. I don't delude myself that I know the answer as to which is better because 'better' is open to (mis)interpretation anyway.
However, I'd advise people who can program in assy who need speed from the chip to also take a good look at the AVR chips because I prefer the AVR instruction set and this is where they have an edge (for me at least).
I agree that a good designer should keep their options open. Like you I started with PICs. I then found a design task that suited an Atmel chip and so got set up for Atmel dev. What I found was that the Atmel instruction set suits me better. The chips themselves are excellent. What I found to be very annoying with AVRs was that the datasheets were inaccurate. Also, I found that AVR forums to be very hostile and arrogant places and this spoils the AVR experience.
10:51, Ahh finally found someone who has the view as I do.
I think we have that opinion due to our professional / entrepreneurial mindset.. Your videos are awesome. The mass production circuit board tutorial was VERY HELPFUL. Thanks.
I have a pic, and for some reason, no C compiler works the same! wtf? The code on CCSC wont work with the HI-TECH C compiler or the mikroC for PIC... is it the same for AVRs?
Dave, Dave you pic fanboy. calling dickheads to people you dont know at all isnt very polite of you. Addint the "how gives a rats ass" to everything avr states, is like you are excusing your pic neardiness, and thats just not cool, at least not at your usual level. Saying that AVR has no profit, and ass delivery issues, well .... just say pic is a bigger company (or more stable as you say) no need to throw potatos to AVR. I think this video could be 30 sec saying:
@EEVblog Dear Dave, many of your videos you talk about micro-controllers. I am suggesting a review of a development board UNI-DS6 ( I have model DS3) from MikroElektronika. This board is able development projects in 7 platforms ARM, PIC, Atmel, 8051, Psoc, DsPic, with a lot of accessories and compare all platforms and select what you really need without dozen of equipment of each platform and works with all official software. From Belgrade.
In my experience, AVR has higher performance and capabilities, but Microchip chips are more resistant to Noise, and mostly they are used in Bio-instrument and Lifesupport systems, due to their stability...
Personally I like AVR, but have worked with PIC as well (PIC18FXX)...
What this guy says is correct. You choose the tools for the job. AVR and PICs are great starting points. Using C will make the software appear the same any way. Learn the heart of C programming and the rest will fall into place. For the pro market JTAG is a great tool, program the whole board in circuit from one point CPU CPLD, FPGA.
This reminds me of the 6500 and the Z80 days now that got the fists flying. Have fun with them all, thats what I say.
I think both options are great. I prefer Atmels lineup because of their *free* avr-gcc compiler. Microchip doesn't have a free C compiler, and for a hobbyist $500 for a C compiler (Lets be honest, you want the pro version) is a real wall for students and hobbyists.
Like I said, I like both, I use both, and I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer!
@WindowsDevPro (On a side note I'm not so sure that bit about Atmel is true, ever since they've had the Arduino crowd behind their microcontrollers they've actually been having some shortages because of the huge demand!)
@WindowsDevPro I doubt the Ardunio is any reason at all behind the shortages which are pretty much across the board on Atmel parts. These has been only about 100K arduino/clones sold over the last few years, pretty insignificant volume to Atmel.
@EEVblog We'll like I said, I like and use both products. IMO the HI-Tech C compiler is really nice, but avr-gcc isn't too bad anymore, and there are better front ends for it out there.
There has been about 150K+ sold, and thats not including clones, just official sales figures from my understanding. Atmel is a smaller company, but with a huge hobbyist effort behind it, and more (newer) books targeted to new users I'd recommend an Arduino to anyone looking to get started in EE.
I think you summed up the situation perfectly. Perhaps the only more succinct way of expressing it is: "horses for courses". I've always taken great care in my career to remain brand-agnostic and focus on choosing products and services primarily on the basis of their suitability for the task. I'm also one who can't stand fanbois and their blind "faith" in the products they align themselves with. Well done Dave. Objectivity rules!
I'm a novice in the realm of microcontrollers and went AVR simply because I've been able to find a million tutorials without hassle. I also like the new AVR Studio 5.0 IDE (can't go wrong with Visual Studio)!
I'm a novice in the realm of microcontrollers and went AVR simply because I've been able to find a million tutorials without hassle. I also like the new AVR Studio 5.0 IDE (can't go wrong with Visual Studio)!
I have a question which you might be able to assist me with. How do you start with microchip programming? I know C and C++ and standard libraries. However, what I don't know is whether I need to learn the documentation and hardware implementation and specifics. For the ATmega168P the manual is 450 pages and the PIC 12F675 is 120 pages. That's OK - I read a lot but that's a hobby and not a profession for me. Any advice? Also does learning say PIC 12F675 aid learning other PICs (same for AVR)?
I also hate people who defend some piece of plastic like it's their god or child or whatever. I did a placement (I'm still a student) for a hardware company and they would admit their products had problems etc etc so even the creators do not defend the product like that. I think pretty much the "fanboys" are people who are not very intelligent and they learn something and they defend it cause that's the only thing they know. They don't know how to use anything else.
I agree with Dave all the way! PICs are really great for hobbyists and engineers. PICkit2 is great and even has an educational discount in the States! Some AVRs look great but I recommend 16f88x series as a well-capable, power-monger! there's bit!
from an embedded software guys point of view changing micro means changing compilers & dev tools etc which can be expensive and time consuming (not so expensive with PIC/ATMEL cheapo micros) but it can be a pain in the arse.
software wise ATMEL is probably cheaper to get going in C properly but PIC has a better C toolchain if you buy it. imho.
Did a comparing test between STC 8051, PIC, AVR and at89C55. The result is interesing. PIC is just a little faster than at89C55, avr and STC 8051 is several times faster than PIC
Not at all neutral and no useful information. Those who want to compare this two micros, I prefer the book “Handbook of Microcontrollers” from Myke Predko.
There is another stupid feature (I call it a bug though) about AVR fuses. FYI: Normally, an AVR uses its internal oscillator in the programming process. That fuse if set will switch an AVR to need an external clock for this. An eventual crystal won't help. You will need either an external clock source or a STK500 to re-programm it.
From an industry standpoint AND getting into micros myself, AVRs are the way to go.
I say an industry standpoint because I'm an electronics repair tech at a faciltity that makes circuit boards for the military, Boeing, Raytheon, Caterpillar and a hundred other companies. There are far more AVRs used than PICs across the board.
@EEVblog I am certain of that, at least for the customer base we deal with. We've never had a problem getting Atmel chips and we will easily produce 500 boards a week with Atmel chips on them. 80% of the PICs we do use all come pre-programmed. 90% of the Atmel chips we deal with we program inhouse.
I do however agree with you on the preference being a majority of what you're introduced to. It's like the difference between PC or MAC people.
@deemas82 Really? You find one chip and an AT45 is your arguement? Company X uses 4 different boards for their grain dryers and up to six of one of the boards for the number of dryers. Each board we make uses an AT90CAN128 ATMEL chip. In a months time we wil have made 25 of each main I/O board, control board and moisture board, 75 each of the dryer boards. Multiply that by twelve for one year....and that's JUST company X. We also make boards for companies A through W. Y and Z use PICs, LOL.
@deemas82 I've been waiting for a specialized crystal/oscillator since September so I can finish repairs on a Raytheon board. It's should be here in March!!! Sometimes we have to put up with really long lead times. It's the nature of ther beast even in the industry.
@sparky3489 your xtal is - keyword - specialized....it's like buying a Bugatti and waiting 28 weeks for a specialized water pump vs buying a Ford and waiting 28 weeks for the water pump.
You're right! One chip is not an argument, it's an example; but it wasn't just one chip/wasn't one model. Atmel got rid of their fab (anyone correct me on this?) vs Microchip having their own fabs....from stand point of design and deployment, Dave is right, Microchip is more reliable.
@deemas82 Atmel are having HUGE supply problems at the moment that is affecting a huge number of small and large companies, and OSHW stuff based on the Arduino too.
@EEVblog yep, indeed. We were one of those affected; had to resort to other spi flash chips; firmware had to be changed ... it was a mess. Lesson learned that it's a good idea to pick a common, non-exclusive, standard with a common footprint. If one company chokes at least you have an option to use another brand without reordering PCBs/rewriting code.
P.S. It's also a great idea to combine packages into one footprint, in case distributors have a tsop32 but not the soic32, for example.
@deemas82 As it is, I'm just going by an industry example, as in where I work. ....from a stand point of design and deployment, it's up to the customer to design their circuits, we just assemble and test them. If ATMEL is the leading choice of so many of our customers, so be it. I'm going by REAL numbers in the REAL world.
Hi, some great points in your video, made me think as ive been using PIC for the last 6 years or so and have been considering using ATMEL, I dont have any issues but feel I want to explore the 32 bit PIC and DsPIC's first. But great, love the lab setup in the background. Cheers.
I find both company's dox, support, and websites fairly poor, but Atmel's website takes the cake. Utterly execrable. I've wanted to use Atmel a coupla times, but got so PO'd by their site that I vowed never to return!
At least they have the Dragon board now, which is in the same league as the PICKit. Once again though, the website is filled with wrong & misleading information about it! What is WRONG with these people!?
I have programmed for both PIC and AVR at school and I must say I kinda like them both, but from the beginners point of view PIC is a bit nightmare when it comes to documentation...and I doubt that you can start playing with for as low as about $10 (bread board, chip, some capacitors and voltage regulator and you're good to go...)
@EEVblog Is a marketing gimmick, technically & economically AVR is our design team first choice.
I also received a letter from Microchip CEO on their readiness to help cross-over and support any MCU shortages due to the Japan's earthquake and tsunami
Love your posts! Particularly the bit about choosing the appropriate tool for the job. It's like that with operating systems too, if you only ever learn one, you try to use it for everything, no matter how badly it fits the job. What is the expression? "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
Argument about C compiler for was actually missed (not fully, which I explain later): When using AVRStudio (with WinAVR installed) it's all about clicking "Next", Next",... and then choosing correct uC in project options. Why it's not fully missed? Because some poeple really use WinAVR itself - even in some courses!
The best for a beginner is something flexible, with free software tools, a low price and great forums to get help on. That for me is the Rev-Ed range of PICAXE products, nothing beats them for price or flexibility......
Once up to speed on those devices, you can quickly move up to the ones he is talking about......
I wanted to program a PIC many years ago; I bought a board and couldn't get it to work, as there were no software for my computer (Atari ST) for that.
I tried communicating with the device, but no dice.
So I gave up.
Many years later, I found out about Atmel, and I bought the AVRISPmkII, as that's the only USB programmer I could find. I tried programming an Atmel from the Macintosh, and it worked. I find Atmel quite easy, but now I moved on to ARM. :)
@heroineworshipper I agree with you - I am starting to learn micro-controllers now and firs thing I saw was the Arduino! And I immediately got interested
last year-two I've bee poking around and everywhere I look - AVR, AVR AVR...
I didn't even know so muc about PIC-s until this video
lol dont even get started on picaxe versus pic. i mean i like picaxe and in fact i wouldnt mind getting into PIC however i've done some pretty funky stuff with a low end entry level picaxe with only a few outputs and limited memory eg controlling 64 LED segments
I bought an AVR development board first but left it because Microchip have way better support documentation and software help (Atmel sort of leaves it up to you which is not good for a beginner !!) so I got a couple of Microchip dev boards.
I will use Atmel stuff again though.
I am now interested in video using TI and Analog Devices boards.
There is only one third party programmer that I can recommend for PICs. The Olimex MPLAB USB programmer. The company is run by a total bunch of assholes, but the programmer works very well directly in MPLAB.
I am a beginner, and I use AVR. Most probably because I've got avr-gcc and avrdude that run under GNU/Linux. And I am using a DIY programmer by AVT that works fine for me. Than again, I am a hobbist, not a pro.
Hello, I COMPLETELY disagree on avoiding third party programmers. You said "dont touch them".. This is really really wrong. I am a absolutely newbie. I bought the usbpicprog (programmer) and an ICSP from ebay compatible for many PICs. I also bought a PIC16F84 and everything worked fine.
THE ADVANTAGE of this (non Microchip) hardware is the OPEN SOURCE. Everything is open with datasheets, shematics, board design even in 3D (on KiCAD). So i can study every aspect! I can learn more!
@donnyab i think you are mistaken. I am talking of Free Open Source Software (FOSS). I have downloaded MPLAB and its an excellent and very usefull software BUT not FOSS. I CANNOT see and study the source code. More important though is the programmer. Microchip's PICKITs are NOT OPEN SOURCE.. which means i CANNOT build them on my own if i want to, and the dont provide the source code of the firmware so i can study it...
Thats the reason i wouldnt touch Microchips kits.. because i want to learn!
I don't see why you would even want to see the source of the development system (IDE) itself, the code to run the chips is freely available as a learning tool whether it be usb, ethernet or wireless application, surely that is all you need ?
I am a fan of FOSS also, just about to get an analog devices board with ucLinux installable on a dsp chip so the code is available for that which is handy to set up a small server on it etc. (and hopefully RTP/RTSP) but linux not relevant to PIC.
@donnyab You are right about the IDE.. i dont really need the source code.. this is not important..
the important thing as i said before is the source of the Pickit3 for example. Where is the shematic and the firmware's source which is loaded into the Pickits's microcontroller? I want to study HOW does the pickit translate USB signals into program data and flashes my PIC16F84 microcontroller. Can i do this with Pickit? If yes then I will admit that you are completely right.
You want to operate at a very low level, many who program these devices just want them to work and get their motors turning and don't want to know things in such great detail.
Is it necessary on small chips like these to understand that level of detail, maybe if it is a dsp chip and you want to get every last ounce of performance then yes.....but I do understand the "need to know" how it is done.
@donnyab Ofcourse most people just want their motor turning.. BUT I didnt like the "dont touch them.." thing for third-party programmers. They DO offer the ability to study on lower level as you said.
Many people (like me) get involved with microcontrollers just for the knowledge of how stuff works. For them I recommend 100% the usbpicprog instead of the Pickit.
If you are a professional and you think that such programmers are buggy then sure I agree go buy a Pickit.. thats what you need.
@kapcom01 I just can not see, why you want to know this ... Who cares?! It is simply working! You are not supposed to build your own programmers, you are supposed to do your own projects ....
@kapcom01 Is it really wrong to want a beginner to have the best and most debugged programmer available? I think not. It's horses for courses, some people like your yourself might LIKE having a third party programmer for those and other reasons. If so, that's fine, go for it.
But I've seen too many beginners get disillusioned because their project doesn't work because of some stupid bug in a third party programmer, and support can be hard to get. Some of them even throw in the towel, that's sad
@EEVblog I understand your point. Ok. The other sad thing is that I am a beginer, and i was searching for a long time and reading all over the internet just to learn how to begin. If I had seen this video I would have buy the Pickit... And this makes me sad.. I would have been misleaded to something that wasn't what i was looking for...
So my conclusion is I agree that maybe 90% of the begginers need the Pickit. But its wrong for a proffesional to get crazy and say DONT BUY THEM DONT TOUCH THEM
You're saying that AVRs are faster - it sometimes matter, especially when you're a beginner - 16/32b uCs are mostly almost impossible to make PCB by yourself, because pins are too close.
For programmers: AVR does have cheap programmers - but not cheap debuggers. Sadly they are introducing another programming interface which is annoying: to program newer uCs you need to buy expensive programmer.
Pity there are no ARMs in DIP:there is no cheaper programmer than bootloader for UART.
@kapcom01 I bought a third party programmer like you, and the company decided to leave the market. Now they don't support it. The software has disappeared, and i am left with a junk circuit board that I can just scrap parts off. PICkit 3 would be my choice for beginners to experts.
haha.... PIC vs AVR in the MCU industry is like C vs Java in software development... So who's the Visual Basic of the microcontroller industry Dave? :-).
I always keep my design choices open. But honestly, my productivity with programming the AVR chips is a lot better than with PIC. So even when the Atmel is not perfect for the job, I usually prefer to use it.
@sirkamtep Too many stupid Youtube comments from people like you who don't produce ANY content at all, you just bitch at others who do. Crawl away now...
@sirkamtep Yes, it's called producing content, something you'd know nothing about. There were plenty of points in there, if you didn't get them then that's your problem.
Haha I love all these people who don't know what Dave is all about. you are all dickheads! haha. but really smashing on atmel is usually pretty common. Microchip gives you more options in chips and at cheaper costs. PIC chips have all kinds of amazing interfaces built right into the chips for cheap.
littellzack 2 days ago
I've apparently not been paying attention to the hobbyist market. I've never cared about who makes a μcontroller any more than I'd care about who makes a resistor.
I'm frankly surprised there's a fanboy war between μcontrollers; there's such a huge range of capabilities from any one manufacturer; seeing fanboys focus on the virtues of a particular model vs. anything else is usually an apples to oranges comparison at best.
That much emotional investment for a part that costs <$5 is insane.
pariahzero 3 days ago
Awesome review and you're totally right! Real engineers don't stick to one micro manufacturer but try out different stuff!
I used to stick to PIC's in the beginning, but that's because they were the most available at the local electronics store, but later I found out about Cypress' PSoC, NXP's LPC and they quite beat in features both PICs and AVRs, even though they are not so widely known.
It would be a good idea to make a vlog about various microcontroller types and list some pros and cons.
VeXorian1337 1 week ago
@EEVblog I started of with PIC micros cause the were the frist one i cam across , Since i'm on a low budget i got a prebuildt JDM programmer WITH ICSP header, i also got 10 pic 12F683 chips to play around with. Since i'm a LINUX guy i had to run mplab trough wine and i used picprog to program the chip .. I later got to know about mplabX witch is a linux based version and i wil give it a try .. i might look into the AVR later but i will use PIC's to get a hang of the mcu basics..
LurkePus 2 weeks ago
this is better than standup comedy! oh btw i hate avr fanboys
murmurrer 2 weeks ago
Very funny! I feel your pain when it comes to fanbois, they're just so bloody tiresome aren't they? I rather guessed that would be your stance on it and I quite agree! Anyone who thinks their one idea can conqueror all is just plain delusional. I try to reassure myself with the thought that thankfully the argument of PIC/AVR is a fairly harmless one, and the more we can get the single-minded zealots arguing over insignificant stuff, then hopefully they'll stay away from the important stuff! :D
dankendell 3 weeks ago
Anyone of you Arduino-only freaks (Or PIC-only freaks for that matter) out there who feels offended by those who think you are a "dickhead"? Simply respond to them like "Maybe I am to you, but you addresing me like you did will never make me changing my mind or image about myself."
SuperDisbelief 3 weeks ago in playlist Fler videoklipp från EEVblog
What micro controller would you use if you had to convert 96 "analog" switches and 16 push-pull potentiometers to 112 different MIDI NRPN signals? (a MIDI NRPN is a value sent on the MIDI number reserved for sending such values.)
Riskteven 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from EEVblog
wow.. I watched this because I wanted to start with microcontrollers (I've never used them) but this vblog was weird.
What I understood from your blog is this:
-Keep your options open.
-ATMEL is a smaller company than Microchip.
-AVR is probably better, but I prefer PIC because I am a PIC fanboy and I hate AVR fanboys.
yeah.. that's about it, this was the most useless vblog you created.. as for me, I'll check both in addition to few others to keep my options open.
makodono 1 month ago 2
@makodono Many of my recent projects use AVR. I use whatever device is the best option.
EEVblog 1 month ago
PIC vs. AVR vs. 8051, 68hc... is not really a dilemma. Professionals should be familiar with all of them and for a hobbist like me, what matters is availability and what people around you use so you can get some help if needed. Nowadays, they are all easy to use if you have an IQ bigger than your shoe size number.Personally I stuck with an 8051 twenty years ago and never looked at PIC or AVR - there was no need (although one day I'd like to try ARM when time allows).Thanks for your great videos.
marshsmello 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
ITS FUCKIN MICROCONTROLER I'M AN ATMEL FAN BUT ITS A FUCKIN MICROCONTROLER IT DOESNT MATTER JUST GIVE ME THE CONTROLLER AND LET ME DEVLOP simple.
TheJennetteFan 1 month ago
Comment removed
TheJennetteFan 1 month ago
Hey great video. Can u send me a link to where i can buy an Atmel usb programmer please.
davidenelson 1 month ago
My first micro was a Motorolla 68HC11, which was for a course. I'm only 22, so it seemed dated to me.
fingerboy18 1 month ago
"...you have to be linux bloody penguin..." I lold so hard :D I'm going to use this, thank you :)
pisnahuj10 1 month ago
I have chosen AVR not because of technical specs but because i like AVR assembler and 32 (almost) universal registers
PetrFM 2 months ago
in terms of 32 bit development, i've found the pic32 platform very limited. usually in 32 bit development, ARM is awesome because of the massive amount of dev tools available (keil, iar, atollic, etc). with pic32's mips m4k, its linux gnu and mplab only. other grievances are the 20 MHz single cycle flash on their highest chip, and horrid documentation organization, where every single peripheral is its own pdf among 10s of other pdfs, all not downloadable as a single package. i could go on...
Halogrunt1234 2 months ago in playlist Electronics Tips & Advice
You are PIC FanBoy, that's why you hate AVR FanBoys! and also DIY programmers are excellent, for example AVR "USBasp".
tteezzoo 2 months ago
If you want to compare corporate sites, Atmel's can be impossible to navigate with broken links and circular links that lead you back to where you started. Microchips site is a little easier to navigate but very bloated.
Third party sites however are a bit reverse. AVRFreaks is by far easier to navigate and find what you're looking for vs piclist which looks more like it suffered a catastrophic failure. And even though Microchip has its own forums, they don't always have the answers you need
superusermode 3 months ago
I like Atmel, very good experience so far. The AVR-studio 5 is very nice. Haven't tried PIC so far though.
Porstakk 3 months ago
I'd love to use my Arduino or TI Launchpad to program some PICs on Linux (preferably with gcc) just to save 40 bucks while I'm deciding whether to buy a PICKit too or not. Is there any solution someone here's using?
GiorgioCapocasa 4 months ago
i haven't try pic yet but i'm using atmel with the DIY DASA programer which consists of 3 resistors and 3 zeners conected to the serial cable and had 0 problems programing my atmega8, i think nothing can beat this in price :P
gcc-avr comes witn ubuntu so just a matter of double clicking and installing
code::block as C IDE
and usip for the programing
laharl2k 4 months ago
I have experience with both PIC and Atmel. PIC is what you say 'a pain in the ass'. PIC has the worst programming experience ever.
Atmel has a free gnu compiler that is clear and easy to code.
Otakumasim 4 months ago
Pretty good video, one of the less biases reviews i have seen between pic and avr. I would like to note that the determining factor for some people is OS support (linux/osx) and availability of DIP chips. As PIC is great on windows, but horrible on Linux, and AVR is the other way around. As far as third party programmers go, on the AVR side the usbtiny and it's various incarnations are as good or better than ATMELs programmer.
tech2077 5 months ago
Thumbs up, if that was the 1st video you watched from Dave and now you are an EEVblog fan like me :)
pret83 5 months ago
AVR rules, PIC sucks
symmetrymuse 5 months ago
nobody say anything about the cypress, they are pretty good! i have been working a little with them , and the have some good features for the bengineers like free tool's , cheap programmer (without ICD :( ), and good official documentacion like the microchips datasheets and AN. i think like you dave, everyone have some advantages and disadvantages. btw im your fan dave great vblog!! Saludos!
javo0112 5 months ago in playlist Electronics Tips & Advice
I really liked your way of talking ...you r really into this ...like you r talking about "life and death"...
Good wishes from Pakistan
Rashid
TheRashid28 5 months ago
Microchip>>Atmel
Desishikamaru 5 months ago
Hi Dave,
I agree with you too that microchip seems to be one up on atmel. I've recently used both atmel and microchip mcus, and I think you should mention the pretty cool free software library support that Microchip provides (the MAL) - free USB stack, tcp/ip, graphics, android etc etc. It's really useful. As far as software tools are concerned I thought AVR studio was much better than MPLAB. MPLAB x is an improvement tho. But yea those fuse bits in Atmel are quite scary..
govindmukundan 6 months ago
Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm a beginner and will try to learn and use several manufacturer's , starting with Microchip, an easy way to step frist in this world of MCU's but there's nothing to be pushed to one in particular when you can provide yourself of all marvellous posibilities
starkfine4 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Perhaps just shutup and tell us the difference
Do you even know
Darrengb 6 months ago
@Darrengb Yes, I know the differences. They are way too many and detailed to list in any blog. And the differences can be anywhere from huge deal-breakers, to of no importance at all depending upon your particular application.
EEVblog 6 months ago 13
Such a +ve attitude keep it up Mr.EEVblog
jsuryansh1287 4 months ago
@Darrengb It depends of what you are going to use it for and if you want a product that has a longevity (spare parts, upgradable etc, you do not want to discontinue a product just because a micro controller factory went out of business)
Riskteven 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from EEVblog
My opinion will be to go for Atmel, Even though I started with PIC because of a huge amount of Info available on the same but if you are planing to develop a project then you can save a good amount of money when you go for Atmel rather than PIC..
amar1986ish 6 months ago
you can be crocodile hunter dude..i love the way you talk
nyehnyi 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
AVR because failure is not an option.
flopski 7 months ago
dude, I really love the way you talk. :) keep up the good work
mohaawwkk 7 months ago 11
@mohaawwkk That's unusual, usually I get hate mail! Thanks.
EEVblog 7 months ago 5
You guys are worse than Apple vs. PC fanboys. :O
Technoguy3 7 months ago 9
@Technoguy3 Oh yeah, it can get NASTY!
EEVblog 7 months ago 5
AVR, PIC pfff I like STM32 microcontrollers
kildas 7 months ago
I love AVR, lol
gusmotorsports 7 months ago
ok you ar real pic fan boy some corections bout avr,
1.stk500 has ISP external target
2.about DIY programers, ok if your budget for working is max 100€ and about 60€ are parts for project, how the hell am i going to buy 50€ programer, also have you ever realized there are some high quality usb programer schematics on internet? you can even upgrade them like i did.
3.ok whats 4 times slower thats nothing!
4.ok im going to use 16-32bit family just to make some lets say 15 MHz transfer pprotocol
kingmatak007 7 months ago
@kingmatak007 PIC Fanboy huh? Then why do several of current projects use AVR?
The PicKit 3 is only $35 euro!
EEVblog 7 months ago
how come no one is using the intel 8051 series microcontrollers these days? I think Atmel and STC makes 8051 now. I haven't touched any microcontrollers other than the AT89C51 and PicAXE.
260830107 7 months ago
I more like STM32 MUC's which are even more cheaper and have more peripherials than modern PIC's and at all just now Chinese friends are not able to extract STM32 when AVR & PIC can be dumped for very low price so from my side is to avoid MSP430, PIC, AVR cuz of extraction possibilities - I saw so many multimeters chinese done using reverse engeenering of fluke hex also one of product which was reviewed (It's not fluke) I see few days ago perfect copy ready to send (magic of dumped MSP430).
hisense999 7 months ago
@hisense999 Hey dude, I'd like some advice. I'm a hobbist and I want to start using STM32 MCUs but I have no idea how hard is it to write code for them and burn them. Can I just burn standalone chips using a usb-to-rs232 adapter, or do I need to buy a expensive chip burner? Do they have free decent full-featured IDEs, or do they have any limitation (such as the size of the program)? Is it hard to develop for them using linux? Also, do you have any other tips? Thanks in advance! :D
umloginqualquer 7 months ago
@umloginqualquer Just go to ST website or google all is really a lot of info and google can help you more than me.
hisense999 7 months ago
@hisense999 That's what I've been doing for the last few weeks, but I'm still undecided. Usually it helps to have opinions directly from people who are already "on the other side". Thanks, anyway. :)
umloginqualquer 7 months ago
Dave, you're a funny guy. Have you considered psychotropic medication? Might help.
effee1000 7 months ago
you're a pic fanboy..
lartti83 8 months ago
@lartti83 Really?, then why do my two latest projects use AVR's?
EEVblog 8 months ago
@EEVblog really? then why do you diss the greatest dev kit ever, STK500?
lartti83 8 months ago
If you don't use Windows, or use multiple operating sistems: I'd recommend AVR.
Else, it doesn't really matter!
Ohh, and if you're new to programming as well, I'd tell you to get an Arduino :)
NinoScript 8 months ago 2
Call me a fanboy if you want, but programming AVRs with WINAVR is a much better experience than any I've ever had with PIC chips. Is there a decent free C compiler for PIC?
asdf12334able 8 months ago
Atmel did actually make a profit in 2010 according to wikipedia (this may be false info, but I shouldn't imagine that they'd have not made profit, otherwise they'd have been in a worse position than now). Oh yes, I am bloomin' glad that someone else doesn't like fanboys! The PIC vs. AVR thing is even worse than the Xbox 360 vs PS3 thing (which I don't get either).
thaizascythosaskand 8 months ago
No entendí ni un culo.
elprensista 8 months ago
Which PIC free language do you use? I thought of JALv2, but it's not OOP D:
Rubdos 8 months ago
If I had to advise a beginner then I'd recommend PIC (just) because of the better support and better documentation. It doesn't mean PIC is better though. I don't delude myself that I know the answer as to which is better because 'better' is open to (mis)interpretation anyway.
However, I'd advise people who can program in assy who need speed from the chip to also take a good look at the AVR chips because I prefer the AVR instruction set and this is where they have an edge (for me at least).
G0HZU 8 months ago
I agree that a good designer should keep their options open. Like you I started with PICs. I then found a design task that suited an Atmel chip and so got set up for Atmel dev. What I found was that the Atmel instruction set suits me better. The chips themselves are excellent. What I found to be very annoying with AVRs was that the datasheets were inaccurate. Also, I found that AVR forums to be very hostile and arrogant places and this spoils the AVR experience.
G0HZU 8 months ago
pic fanboy is pic fanboy...
tHaH4x0r 8 months ago
23 people are hardcore AVR fanboys
DoubleM55 8 months ago
Atmel AVR is far way better than PIC
metalhead9909 8 months ago
You pitch is way too exaggerated. You sound like a faggot who read a book about voice training.
zurechtweiser 8 months ago
10:51, Ahh finally found someone who has the view as I do.
I think we have that opinion due to our professional / entrepreneurial mindset.. Your videos are awesome. The mass production circuit board tutorial was VERY HELPFUL. Thanks.
bcsupport 9 months ago
I have a pic, and for some reason, no C compiler works the same! wtf? The code on CCSC wont work with the HI-TECH C compiler or the mikroC for PIC... is it the same for AVRs?
ZouloumOSX 9 months ago
Dave, Dave you pic fanboy. calling dickheads to people you dont know at all isnt very polite of you. Addint the "how gives a rats ass" to everything avr states, is like you are excusing your pic neardiness, and thats just not cool, at least not at your usual level. Saying that AVR has no profit, and ass delivery issues, well .... just say pic is a bigger company (or more stable as you say) no need to throw potatos to AVR. I think this video could be 30 sec saying:
Who GIVES the RAts AsS!!! ;)
cleptonian 9 months ago
@cleptonian You really don't have a clue. Two of my latest projects have AVR's in them, thanks. And Atmel have major delivery issues, that's a fact.
EEVblog 9 months ago 2
@EEVblog :) Thank you for your repply, you didnt had to. But as you say: Who gives a (you know what)? :D
To add: I use msp's :) Keep up with good work, you have inspired many with some vids.
cleptonian 9 months ago
@EEVblog Dear Dave, many of your videos you talk about micro-controllers. I am suggesting a review of a development board UNI-DS6 ( I have model DS3) from MikroElektronika. This board is able development projects in 7 platforms ARM, PIC, Atmel, 8051, Psoc, DsPic, with a lot of accessories and compare all platforms and select what you really need without dozen of equipment of each platform and works with all official software. From Belgrade.
MrDrthing 8 months ago
im not a fanboy of atmel or pic, i just use them because is a good microcontroller and thats what really matters!
runehansen1 9 months ago
In case this note disappears, here it is forever
pickit2avrisp wordpress com has permanently moved to
pickit2 isgreat org
definitionofis 9 months ago
In my experience, AVR has higher performance and capabilities, but Microchip chips are more resistant to Noise, and mostly they are used in Bio-instrument and Lifesupport systems, due to their stability...
Personally I like AVR, but have worked with PIC as well (PIC18FXX)...
CDMCSD2 9 months ago
@10:07 Say what you REALLY think about it .
Brilliant and honest .
1dosucol1 10 months ago
5:37 reminds me of Mac fanboys.
ivaneduardo747 10 months ago 2
@ivaneduardo747 touché
rsxjatt 10 months ago
@ivaneduardo747 reminds me of windows fanboys...
ZouloumOSX 9 months ago
@ZouloumOSX THis reminds me the Windows vs Mac comment fights :P Actually, I'm using a Mac. And no, I'm not a fanboy.
ivaneduardo747 9 months ago
Comment removed
ivaneduardo747 10 months ago
What this guy says is correct. You choose the tools for the job. AVR and PICs are great starting points. Using C will make the software appear the same any way. Learn the heart of C programming and the rest will fall into place. For the pro market JTAG is a great tool, program the whole board in circuit from one point CPU CPLD, FPGA.
This reminds me of the 6500 and the Z80 days now that got the fists flying. Have fun with them all, thats what I say.
electronic1dude 11 months ago
I think both options are great. I prefer Atmels lineup because of their *free* avr-gcc compiler. Microchip doesn't have a free C compiler, and for a hobbyist $500 for a C compiler (Lets be honest, you want the pro version) is a real wall for students and hobbyists.
Like I said, I like both, I use both, and I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer!
WindowsDevPro 11 months ago
@WindowsDevPro (On a side note I'm not so sure that bit about Atmel is true, ever since they've had the Arduino crowd behind their microcontrollers they've actually been having some shortages because of the huge demand!)
WindowsDevPro 11 months ago
@WindowsDevPro I doubt the Ardunio is any reason at all behind the shortages which are pretty much across the board on Atmel parts. These has been only about 100K arduino/clones sold over the last few years, pretty insignificant volume to Atmel.
EEVblog 11 months ago 3
@EEVblog We'll like I said, I like and use both products. IMO the HI-Tech C compiler is really nice, but avr-gcc isn't too bad anymore, and there are better front ends for it out there.
There has been about 150K+ sold, and thats not including clones, just official sales figures from my understanding. Atmel is a smaller company, but with a huge hobbyist effort behind it, and more (newer) books targeted to new users I'd recommend an Arduino to anyone looking to get started in EE.
WindowsDevPro 11 months ago
I think you summed up the situation perfectly. Perhaps the only more succinct way of expressing it is: "horses for courses". I've always taken great care in my career to remain brand-agnostic and focus on choosing products and services primarily on the basis of their suitability for the task. I'm also one who can't stand fanbois and their blind "faith" in the products they align themselves with. Well done Dave. Objectivity rules!
xjet 11 months ago
I'm a novice in the realm of microcontrollers and went AVR simply because I've been able to find a million tutorials without hassle. I also like the new AVR Studio 5.0 IDE (can't go wrong with Visual Studio)!
Tannz0rz 11 months ago
I'm a novice in the realm of microcontrollers and went AVR simply because I've been able to find a million tutorials without hassle. I also like the new AVR Studio 5.0 IDE (can't go wrong with Visual Studio)!
Tannz0rz 11 months ago
Enjoyed your video a lot. Very amusing and informative. I will take your advice and learn more about other brands of micros.
slucas601 11 months ago
Hello dave. Great job doing all the videos. Keep it up. You are an asset to the free knowledge community. Thanks.
usamakr 11 months ago
I have a question which you might be able to assist me with. How do you start with microchip programming? I know C and C++ and standard libraries. However, what I don't know is whether I need to learn the documentation and hardware implementation and specifics. For the ATmega168P the manual is 450 pages and the PIC 12F675 is 120 pages. That's OK - I read a lot but that's a hobby and not a profession for me. Any advice? Also does learning say PIC 12F675 aid learning other PICs (same for AVR)?
kotapaka 1 year ago
I also hate people who defend some piece of plastic like it's their god or child or whatever. I did a placement (I'm still a student) for a hardware company and they would admit their products had problems etc etc so even the creators do not defend the product like that. I think pretty much the "fanboys" are people who are not very intelligent and they learn something and they defend it cause that's the only thing they know. They don't know how to use anything else.
kotapaka 1 year ago
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS. THANK YOU.
PushingD 1 year ago
I agree with Dave all the way! PICs are really great for hobbyists and engineers. PICkit2 is great and even has an educational discount in the States! Some AVRs look great but I recommend 16f88x series as a well-capable, power-monger! there's bit!
ThePatrickmcdonald87 1 year ago
@ThePatrickmcdonald87
I reccomend pic18 because they have more memory (and usually more i/o ports :P )
TheOneToxic 1 year ago
from an embedded software guys point of view changing micro means changing compilers & dev tools etc which can be expensive and time consuming (not so expensive with PIC/ATMEL cheapo micros) but it can be a pain in the arse.
software wise ATMEL is probably cheaper to get going in C properly but PIC has a better C toolchain if you buy it. imho.
militantmindset 1 year ago
I like the Motorola 68HC11 microcontroller :-)
Necroe6969 1 year ago
I don't have too many AVR-based home appliances. Mostly PIC or PIC clones:
-Microwave Oven
-HVAC temperature control (Insteon bridge)
-Monitor control circuitry (?)
-Smoke alarms (?)
? = not sure, probably PIC.
I am looking at AVR for a project though, because of Arduino.
linagee 1 year ago
Did a comparing test between STC 8051, PIC, AVR and at89C55. The result is interesing. PIC is just a little faster than at89C55, avr and STC 8051 is several times faster than PIC
ezpcb 1 year ago
hitech compiler sux...
menschenhass 1 year ago
Not at all neutral and no useful information. Those who want to compare this two micros, I prefer the book “Handbook of Microcontrollers” from Myke Predko.
deepakcheriyan 1 year ago
There is another stupid feature (I call it a bug though) about AVR fuses. FYI: Normally, an AVR uses its internal oscillator in the programming process. That fuse if set will switch an AVR to need an external clock for this. An eventual crystal won't help. You will need either an external clock source or a STK500 to re-programm it.
RealJoeSixpaq 1 year ago
From an industry standpoint AND getting into micros myself, AVRs are the way to go.
I say an industry standpoint because I'm an electronics repair tech at a faciltity that makes circuit boards for the military, Boeing, Raytheon, Caterpillar and a hundred other companies. There are far more AVRs used than PICs across the board.
sparky3489 1 year ago
@sparky3489 I wouldn't be so sure of that. PIC outsell AVR's by a big margin, and Atmel has never really made a profit and has supply problems.
EEVblog 1 year ago
@EEVblog I am certain of that, at least for the customer base we deal with. We've never had a problem getting Atmel chips and we will easily produce 500 boards a week with Atmel chips on them. 80% of the PICs we do use all come pre-programmed. 90% of the Atmel chips we deal with we program inhouse.
I do however agree with you on the preference being a majority of what you're introduced to. It's like the difference between PC or MAC people.
sparky3489 1 year ago
@sparky3489 yep, 28 week lead time on AT45 dataflash chips....that's not industry friendly, sorry
deemas82 1 year ago
@deemas82 Really? You find one chip and an AT45 is your arguement? Company X uses 4 different boards for their grain dryers and up to six of one of the boards for the number of dryers. Each board we make uses an AT90CAN128 ATMEL chip. In a months time we wil have made 25 of each main I/O board, control board and moisture board, 75 each of the dryer boards. Multiply that by twelve for one year....and that's JUST company X. We also make boards for companies A through W. Y and Z use PICs, LOL.
sparky3489 1 year ago
@sparky3489 yep, I'd say freescale/intel dominate that market, but 28 week lead time on AT45 dataflash chips....that's not industry friendly, sorry.
deemas82 1 year ago
@deemas82 I've been waiting for a specialized crystal/oscillator since September so I can finish repairs on a Raytheon board. It's should be here in March!!! Sometimes we have to put up with really long lead times. It's the nature of ther beast even in the industry.
sparky3489 1 year ago
@sparky3489 your xtal is - keyword - specialized....it's like buying a Bugatti and waiting 28 weeks for a specialized water pump vs buying a Ford and waiting 28 weeks for the water pump.
You're right! One chip is not an argument, it's an example; but it wasn't just one chip/wasn't one model. Atmel got rid of their fab (anyone correct me on this?) vs Microchip having their own fabs....from stand point of design and deployment, Dave is right, Microchip is more reliable.
deemas82 1 year ago
@deemas82 Atmel are having HUGE supply problems at the moment that is affecting a huge number of small and large companies, and OSHW stuff based on the Arduino too.
EEVblog 1 year ago
@EEVblog yep, indeed. We were one of those affected; had to resort to other spi flash chips; firmware had to be changed ... it was a mess. Lesson learned that it's a good idea to pick a common, non-exclusive, standard with a common footprint. If one company chokes at least you have an option to use another brand without reordering PCBs/rewriting code.
P.S. It's also a great idea to combine packages into one footprint, in case distributors have a tsop32 but not the soic32, for example.
deemas82 1 year ago
@deemas82 As it is, I'm just going by an industry example, as in where I work. ....from a stand point of design and deployment, it's up to the customer to design their circuits, we just assemble and test them. If ATMEL is the leading choice of so many of our customers, so be it. I'm going by REAL numbers in the REAL world.
sparky3489 1 year ago
Hi, some great points in your video, made me think as ive been using PIC for the last 6 years or so and have been considering using ATMEL, I dont have any issues but feel I want to explore the 32 bit PIC and DsPIC's first. But great, love the lab setup in the background. Cheers.
buffplums 1 year ago
what do you do in life? whats the purpose of your videos???
plentyoflife 1 year ago
@plentyoflife I have fun.
EEVblog 1 year ago 16
"Linux Bloody Penguin"! :-))
I find both company's dox, support, and websites fairly poor, but Atmel's website takes the cake. Utterly execrable. I've wanted to use Atmel a coupla times, but got so PO'd by their site that I vowed never to return!
At least they have the Dragon board now, which is in the same league as the PICKit. Once again though, the website is filled with wrong & misleading information about it! What is WRONG with these people!?
qwaqwa1960 1 year ago 4
i just bought a Arduino but i think i will try out the PIC 16 series chip i have
electronicsperson1 1 year ago
I have programmed for both PIC and AVR at school and I must say I kinda like them both, but from the beginners point of view PIC is a bit nightmare when it comes to documentation...and I doubt that you can start playing with for as low as about $10 (bread board, chip, some capacitors and voltage regulator and you're good to go...)
shid007 1 year ago
Your videos are cool but if ou act a little bit more serious you would be taken more seriously I think
plentyoflife 1 year ago
Your videos are cool but if ou act a little bit more serious you would be taken more seriously I think
plentyoflife 1 year ago
@plentyoflife I got a personal phone call from the Microchip CEO, so I think I'm being taken seriously enough already!
EEVblog 1 year ago 24
@EEVblog what is Microchip CEO?
plentyoflife 1 year ago
@EEVblog Is a marketing gimmick, technically & economically AVR is our design team first choice.
I also received a letter from Microchip CEO on their readiness to help cross-over and support any MCU shortages due to the Japan's earthquake and tsunami
metalhead9909 8 months ago
Love your posts! Particularly the bit about choosing the appropriate tool for the job. It's like that with operating systems too, if you only ever learn one, you try to use it for everything, no matter how badly it fits the job. What is the expression? "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
Jainh872 1 year ago
Argument about C compiler for was actually missed (not fully, which I explain later): When using AVRStudio (with WinAVR installed) it's all about clicking "Next", Next",... and then choosing correct uC in project options. Why it's not fully missed? Because some poeple really use WinAVR itself - even in some courses!
OldSkull87 1 year ago
Fantastic! I love it "You're a DICKHEAD, and I'm gonna IGNORE YOU!" - couldn't put it better myself! ^_^
unlokia 1 year ago
I love you
sheitankiller 1 year ago
Might I suggest looking into the propeller? It's got some interesting specs.
Desmaad 1 year ago
The best for a beginner is something flexible, with free software tools, a low price and great forums to get help on. That for me is the Rev-Ed range of PICAXE products, nothing beats them for price or flexibility......
Once up to speed on those devices, you can quickly move up to the ones he is talking about......
Regards
Andy
derfisherman 1 year ago
avr is much better :P
it is cheaper,runs faster and is simplier to learn
but i cant even learn asm for pic..i just dont understand :D
Mushketer888 1 year ago
superb video i love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah its not like Atmel is paying us right so we have to try all the chips!
i really like dave's videos he rocks!
pokiri446 1 year ago
I wanted to program a PIC many years ago; I bought a board and couldn't get it to work, as there were no software for my computer (Atari ST) for that.
I tried communicating with the device, but no dice.
So I gave up.
Many years later, I found out about Atmel, and I bought the AVRISPmkII, as that's the only USB programmer I could find. I tried programming an Atmel from the Macintosh, and it worked. I find Atmel quite easy, but now I moved on to ARM. :)
My advice: Choose what you desire most. =)
68HC060 1 year ago
Nice video!
@heroineworshipper I agree with you - I am starting to learn micro-controllers now and firs thing I saw was the Arduino! And I immediately got interested
last year-two I've bee poking around and everywhere I look - AVR, AVR AVR...
I didn't even know so muc about PIC-s until this video
AgentDexter47 1 year ago
lol dont even get started on picaxe versus pic. i mean i like picaxe and in fact i wouldnt mind getting into PIC however i've done some pretty funky stuff with a low end entry level picaxe with only a few outputs and limited memory eg controlling 64 LED segments
williefleete 1 year ago
I bought an AVR development board first but left it because Microchip have way better support documentation and software help (Atmel sort of leaves it up to you which is not good for a beginner !!) so I got a couple of Microchip dev boards.
I will use Atmel stuff again though.
I am now interested in video using TI and Analog Devices boards.
donnyab 1 year ago
There is only one third party programmer that I can recommend for PICs. The Olimex MPLAB USB programmer. The company is run by a total bunch of assholes, but the programmer works very well directly in MPLAB.
rpcelectronics 1 year ago
I am a beginner, and I use AVR. Most probably because I've got avr-gcc and avrdude that run under GNU/Linux. And I am using a DIY programmer by AVT that works fine for me. Than again, I am a hobbist, not a pro.
rampike74 1 year ago
I am a beginner, and I use AVR. Most probably because I've got avr-gcc and avrdude that run under GNU/Linux.
rampike74 1 year ago
Hello, I COMPLETELY disagree on avoiding third party programmers. You said "dont touch them".. This is really really wrong. I am a absolutely newbie. I bought the usbpicprog (programmer) and an ICSP from ebay compatible for many PICs. I also bought a PIC16F84 and everything worked fine.
THE ADVANTAGE of this (non Microchip) hardware is the OPEN SOURCE. Everything is open with datasheets, shematics, board design even in 3D (on KiCAD). So i can study every aspect! I can learn more!
kapcom01 1 year ago
@kapcom01
you may not have noticed but almost every board microchip sells has free software and schematics.
donnyab 1 year ago
@donnyab i think you are mistaken. I am talking of Free Open Source Software (FOSS). I have downloaded MPLAB and its an excellent and very usefull software BUT not FOSS. I CANNOT see and study the source code. More important though is the programmer. Microchip's PICKITs are NOT OPEN SOURCE.. which means i CANNOT build them on my own if i want to, and the dont provide the source code of the firmware so i can study it...
Thats the reason i wouldnt touch Microchips kits.. because i want to learn!
kapcom01 1 year ago
@kapcom01
I don't see why you would even want to see the source of the development system (IDE) itself, the code to run the chips is freely available as a learning tool whether it be usb, ethernet or wireless application, surely that is all you need ?
I am a fan of FOSS also, just about to get an analog devices board with ucLinux installable on a dsp chip so the code is available for that which is handy to set up a small server on it etc. (and hopefully RTP/RTSP) but linux not relevant to PIC.
donnyab 1 year ago
@donnyab You are right about the IDE.. i dont really need the source code.. this is not important..
the important thing as i said before is the source of the Pickit3 for example. Where is the shematic and the firmware's source which is loaded into the Pickits's microcontroller? I want to study HOW does the pickit translate USB signals into program data and flashes my PIC16F84 microcontroller. Can i do this with Pickit? If yes then I will admit that you are completely right.
kapcom01 1 year ago
@kapcom01
You want to operate at a very low level, many who program these devices just want them to work and get their motors turning and don't want to know things in such great detail.
Is it necessary on small chips like these to understand that level of detail, maybe if it is a dsp chip and you want to get every last ounce of performance then yes.....but I do understand the "need to know" how it is done.
donnyab 1 year ago
@donnyab Ofcourse most people just want their motor turning.. BUT I didnt like the "dont touch them.." thing for third-party programmers. They DO offer the ability to study on lower level as you said.
Many people (like me) get involved with microcontrollers just for the knowledge of how stuff works. For them I recommend 100% the usbpicprog instead of the Pickit.
If you are a professional and you think that such programmers are buggy then sure I agree go buy a Pickit.. thats what you need.
kapcom01 1 year ago
@kapcom01 I just can not see, why you want to know this ... Who cares?! It is simply working! You are not supposed to build your own programmers, you are supposed to do your own projects ....
PantheraTigr 1 year ago
@kapcom01 Is it really wrong to want a beginner to have the best and most debugged programmer available? I think not. It's horses for courses, some people like your yourself might LIKE having a third party programmer for those and other reasons. If so, that's fine, go for it.
But I've seen too many beginners get disillusioned because their project doesn't work because of some stupid bug in a third party programmer, and support can be hard to get. Some of them even throw in the towel, that's sad
EEVblog 1 year ago
@EEVblog I understand your point. Ok. The other sad thing is that I am a beginer, and i was searching for a long time and reading all over the internet just to learn how to begin. If I had seen this video I would have buy the Pickit... And this makes me sad.. I would have been misleaded to something that wasn't what i was looking for...
So my conclusion is I agree that maybe 90% of the begginers need the Pickit. But its wrong for a proffesional to get crazy and say DONT BUY THEM DONT TOUCH THEM
kapcom01 1 year ago
@EEVblog
You're saying that AVRs are faster - it sometimes matter, especially when you're a beginner - 16/32b uCs are mostly almost impossible to make PCB by yourself, because pins are too close.
For programmers: AVR does have cheap programmers - but not cheap debuggers. Sadly they are introducing another programming interface which is annoying: to program newer uCs you need to buy expensive programmer.
Pity there are no ARMs in DIP:there is no cheaper programmer than bootloader for UART.
OldSkull87 1 year ago
@kapcom01 I bought a third party programmer like you, and the company decided to leave the market. Now they don't support it. The software has disappeared, and i am left with a junk circuit board that I can just scrap parts off. PICkit 3 would be my choice for beginners to experts.
thejdiego 1 year ago
AVR > PIC
CALLIKABT 1 year ago
haha.... PIC vs AVR in the MCU industry is like C vs Java in software development... So who's the Visual Basic of the microcontroller industry Dave? :-).
markbrock30 1 year ago
@markbrock30
Bascom on AVR? Ok, ok. I know what you meant.
rampike74 1 year ago
I always keep my design choices open. But honestly, my productivity with programming the AVR chips is a lot better than with PIC. So even when the Atmel is not perfect for the job, I usually prefer to use it.
yanava 1 year ago
You are not impartial at all....
johnymetalman2002 1 year ago
I try to use both - PIC and AVR.
Now I use only MSP430 :)
TheWizm 1 year ago
because you do not design a microcontroller. complete with software
and sell them and then you self-critical, I see that,
danelrosascarpynteyr 1 year ago
Comment on xilinx
in any case because you do not design a microcontroller. everyone wants Horseman, and also the software. and then you self-critical
danelrosascarpynteyr 1 year ago
too much talking dude
sirkamtep 1 year ago
@sirkamtep Too many stupid Youtube comments from people like you who don't produce ANY content at all, you just bitch at others who do. Crawl away now...
EEVblog 1 year ago 29
@EEVblog yeah and 2 hours talking without point is better?
sirkamtep 1 year ago
@sirkamtep Yes, it's called producing content, something you'd know nothing about. There were plenty of points in there, if you didn't get them then that's your problem.
EEVblog 1 year ago 3
@EEVblog You don't have to answer to these people Dave!
It's enough that you answer almost every one of the comments on your videos!
Keep UP th good work, and keep the electrons flowing!
billysgeo 1 year ago