# You said: "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior". Well, our biological function, the orgasm, a reward for pre-orgasmic behaviour, by YOUR logic, makes that behaviour moral. Hence rape / necrophilia become moral.
# "We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks" Necrophiliacs aren't always aware of health risks, & obviously they don't care. Also, a body can be enbalmed / newly dead. Anyway, l've never heard of a necrophiliac dying from it, at least, it doesn't seem common to die from it.
So it still stands: You cannot condemn necrophilia based on your sense of morality.
@hatloverxxx Atheism is not a religion, therefore it doesnt teach the philosophy of morals. However, most atheists are law abiding citizens who realize that the basic "sins"(murder, stealing, rape,ect.) are wrong, not because an imaginary being told them so, but because its morals that should be embeded in your fucking skull. Not believing in god doesnt make a person immoral, it just makes them right.
@hatloverxxx No morals are better than bad morals. Atheism has no teaching to tell you to do bad things, like killing your neighbor for working on Sunday. Religion does.
That's why atheists get their morals from evolution. Our morals evolved just as we did. Doing good things makes you feel good, not because the Bible tells you to do it, but because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior. What goes around, comes around. Being nice to others benefits you.
I don't see how evolution is congruent with morality - the two are in separate realities. Can you give an example of a moral which is based on evolution?
# "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior"
That actually justifies rape!
# "Being nice to others benefits you."
A necrophiliac has fun, & leaves no victim. You have no way of condemning this as immoral.
@hatloverxxx Morals are mental and minds evolve just like the rest of your body. An example is hurting other people. Whenever me and my friends box with huge gloves, if I get a good hit on one of them, I feel bad about it and apologize. That bad feeling is biologically induced. That evolved. Hurting innocent people is detrimental to you, so evolution caused us to be averse to doing that.
Contrary to religion, that bad feeling doesn't come from god or me knowing the Bible condemns it.
@ninjajesus81 You haven't explained how any moral is related to evolution. You said bad feeling from wrongdoing = biologically induced (extremely debatable) thus related to evolution because evolution is the only explanation for biology.
Also you haven't answered:
# "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior"
That actually justifies rape!
# "Being nice to others benefits you."
A necrophiliac has fun, & leaves no victim. You have no way of condemning this as immoral.
@hatloverxxx Well, I told you that biological processes evolve, we know this. Well, your mind is a biological process as well, and that's where your morals are stored. Now, I don't think there's any direct evidence, but there's also no alternative explanation. Unless you think humans and our pre-human ancestors have just always had the same morals.
And if you think it's debatable that bad feelings aren't caused by biological processes, I'd love to know what you think causes them.
# "How is rape a beneficial behavior?". You said: "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior". Well, our biological function, the orgasm, which is a
reward for pre-orgasmic behaviour, by YOUR logic makes that behaviour moral. Hence rape / necrophilia become moral.
@hatloverxxx Orgasms are the reward for the beneficial behavior of procreation. Your body doesn't distinguish how you achieve it. But most people don't rape because it's more detrimental than beneficial to us.
# "We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks" Necrophiliacs aren't always aware of health risks, & obviously, they don't care anyway (also, "bad smell" could be a reason not to have sex at all / to ban gay / anal sex). Also, a body can be enbalmed, or newly dead. Anyway, l've never heard of a necrophiliac dying of disease / it doesn't seem normal that a necrophiliac dies of disease.
It stands: You can't condemn necrophilia based on your sense of morality.
@hatloverxxx My morality is based on not doing something to someone else that I wouldn't want done to me. I wouldn't want to be raped after I die, so I would say it's not moral to do that to someone else.
That's my sense of morality. What's wrong with that?
@ninjajesus81 You've added a new concept. Initially, you said being nice to others benefits you.
The point about necrophilia is that the other person in the dipole is no longer a variable, they're just "zero". Hence by your opening equation, if necrophilia makes you sad, then it's immoral, if it makes you happy, then it's moral, seeing as the corpse is a "zero".
Next q: What is "nice"? Why is it bad to have your body shagged after death? What if the deceased agreed to it before death?
@hatloverxxx Being nice to others does benefit you, did I contradict myself? What concept am I adding that negates what I've already said?
I said being nice to others benefits you, which it does. And just because something makes you happy, doesn't make it moral. I never said that. Even killing makes some people happy. That doesn't mean it's moral.
And if they agreed to it before they died, then it's consentual.
@ninjajesus81 You made it seem that morality is defined in reciprocation.
Extend this to necrophilia, where the other person is dead, inactive, as explained. If we continue to say morality = whatever is in the reciprocation of an act (if good is returned, then the act was good), then the morality of necrophilia is 100% in the mind of the enactor, because corpse gives no feedback.
Define:
"moral"
"nice"
"Good"
+ Categorise consensual necrophilia as moral/immoral/explain how an act is amoral?
@hatloverxxx Well, reciprocation is a part of why our morality evolved the way it did. If you help someone, then they're more likely to help you.
We have a natural tendency to respect the dead. Why? I don't know, but an evolutionary anthropologist, or whatever, could probably provide a logical explanation that may be the reason why.
So we don't have sex with dead people because we respect the dead, and also because we try to stay away from dead things for health reasons.
@ninjajesus81 You've not answered any of the points raised in my last post. Also "could probabIy provide a logical explanation" is a phrase illogical in itself, and certainly has no place in a debate. I feel this debate has come to a dead end. Thank you and goodbye.
@hatloverxxx How is rape a beneficial behavior? Where do you think sympathy comes from? God? We feel sympathy for people who get treated badly, therefore, normal people don't feel right treating people badly.
Necrophiliacs have sex with dead bodies. We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks being around them. That's why they smell so god awful to us.
But I can't say it's immoral, just like I can't say cannibalism is immoral (if they're already dead).
This is battle of wits. the woman brought a pocket knife. Matt brought 10 kunai, a katana, a derringers, two magnums, two desert eagles, a sawed-off shotgun, a chain gun, rail gun, missles, rockets, the latest Iron Man armor with ALL the armaments, a battalion of lvl 4 super saiyans, the world of Armored Core, 100 nukes, and access to an orbital plasma cannon that is accurate to a 2-foot radius
You object to the wisdom & judgments of God & ask if His actions fair, right or good ? Have you asked yourself what is good ? What human or even yourself has the ability to make determinations about the nature of the universe, human nature or the value of people's lives. You inveigh against God with me,but I am not a moral authority- only God is the Creator &source of values. So if U dislike the fullness of what Creator has made what on earth do U mean by good?
@shieldsff (PART 1) What you mean by us not understanding good and bad can mean one of two things, so I'd like to respond to both. You could be referring to people's actions, world occurrences, or both.
Why would a rational God make the differentiation between right and wrong such a difficult concept for human beings to comprehend? To me, being good and doing the right thing is, for the most part, pretty simple. I help others when I see help is needed, I show respect, (CONTINUED ON PART 2)
@shieldsff PART 2 gratitude, consideration towards others, etc. I also choose not to hurt others, steal, harass, rape, murder, discriminate, vandalize, etc. Yes, there is gray, but in those difficult times, the act itself of trying to determine which decision is right and which is wrong, is something only a good natured person would concern themselves with. We have free will, and the ability to distinguish good and bad. Simply put, those who strive to be good are good people. CONTINUED ON PART 3
@shieldsff PART 3 As for happenings and the way things are in the world, I get what you're saying. I've heard that God works in mysterious ways, and everything happens for a reason. It's all part of an elabortate plan. What we consider a bad occurrence, has some kind of complicated butterfly effect that ultimately contributes to a good result, thus maintaining the balance of this infinite puzzle. That means the God himself must have micro managed every single event in the CONTINUED ON PART 4
@shieldsff PART 4 history of our entire existence (past, present, future) down to the smallest unfathomable detail… I cannot accept that, because it contradicts my first point. That would mean that I am not responsible for my actions, or even my thoughts. If I decided not to go to work and stay in bed, not work out and get fat, blow all my money on drugs, kill hundreds of people, that wouldn't have been my decision in the first place, because I am but a pawn in this CONTINUED ON PART 5
@undeadhead -"I cannot accept that, because it contradicts my first point. That would mean that I am not responsible for my actions, or even my thoughts. "
Sorry, but I do not believe that and I am not say that at all. You should probably read Gen. 1-3 , Romans 1 and the book of Proverbs
@shieldsff PART 5 predetermined, intelligent design. I wouldn't have free will, even if I thought I did. Sure, I guess it is possible, but that would mean that those bad people out there that do bad things aren't really responsible for their actions. It would mean that everything I'm doing, including the typing of this comment, was arranged by God. In that sense, everyone who goes to hell never stood a chance. They were always meant to be damned, which is fucked up. CONTINUED ON PART 6
@shieldsff So you believe that things slip by God? Things happen that he didn't approve or plan on? Wouldn't that would suggest that there is no set plan, and certain things do in fact happen for no reason? If I write a book, I can't control the direction of the storyline if the characters think for themselves and choose their own actions.
Hello there. May I be so bold as to advise that you save your time and thought in this conversation you have been sharing with the Shields character below? What kind of enlightening conversation can be had from someone who may as well have tattooed across their forehead: "For my opinion, see Bible." ?
As for me, I await the day when a theist can explain to me *precisely* why God allows children to be snatched from their parents' arms by genetic disorders and terminal disease.
@ardendogma Curiosity gets the best of me at times. I have yet to receive a thought provoking answer to my question. Sadly, my mind has only been blown by other's stupidity.
I think you already are so I doubt you need further permission..In any case, like me I am sure many others completely fail to see any logic or reason in the assertion that 'god' (perhaps you refer here to your idea of god) is the responsible party for any such things, or for that matter anything not objectively good at all. If you want to better understand what Christians would hold Him responsible for I can only recommend 1st John in the Bible
For myself, I fail to past the glaring contradiction within the Christian doctrine of God's omnibenevolence with respect to the needless suffering of His children. Mark Twain said in this subject, "It is plain that there is one moral law for heaven and another for the earth."
You see, I can prescribe man-made pieces of literature too, except in my case, the context of my quote is, I should think, abruptly and incontrovertibly clear.
If you wish to further this conversation, kindly desist from including chapters of your one book; I am simply not interested. I want YOUR opinions, not those of your one book. You admonish others for not appreciating the seemingly metaphorical and abstruse context of the Bible, yet you make little to no effort to explain that context, even though you have accused the other party of ignorance. It's no good telling someone they're ignorant - you need to explain to them how they are.
@undeadhead - No I don't agree that there cannot be a set plan because unfortunate events happen..In logic, it's fairly well established that because something is correlated doesn't mean that it's caused. Neither does it suggests that 'things slip by'. the Creator of all things, time and eternity
Like I asked earlier, what kind of enlightening conversation can be had from someone who may as well have tattooed across their forehead: "For my opinion, see Bible."?
Unless you have your OWN thoughts and observations on such matters, without feeling the need to holster them on a holy book, then I am afraid this will devolve into a conversation not worth having. Thank-you.
@shieldsff Okay, so God is only responsible for causing the good stuff. The rest of it, he either sits back and says, "oh well," or he can't do anything about. Hmm, God doesn't sound all that powerful to me. Thanks for clearing that up.
@acr08807 - actually, I like the entire account.... Reading IN CONTEXT is actually how it has always been intended to be understood. Make sense now ?!?
@shieldsff Yes! Absolutely! God, filled with love, wanted the Israelites to slaughter the the indiginous populations of Palestine and take their land so they could flourish and spread light to the world and give us our Lord Jesus Christ. Looked upon that way, it's really a good thing that God ordered the slaughter of all of the men and children and married women and the enslavement of the virginal girls, from whom God took his cut. Thanks!
what can be said to you about this.? For someone (such as yourself) who clearly refuses to read the full account&to take into consideration any CONTEXT there is no apparent exchange which would prove productive.Assuming this account is true & honest (as U appear to accept) one would strongly urge trying to understand what this Creator God is saying and immediately take all sincere effort to please him.Such willful rejection; were the Nazi also hapless victims in your make-up history?
@shieldsff First, of course the account is true--it's the BIBLE. Everything in the Bible is true. What CONTEXT am I missing? If God hadn't had the Midianites slain and the virgins taken as slaves, including taking a few slavegirls Himself, then the Israelites would never have settled in Israel and God never would have been able to sacrifice Jesus for the sins of mankind, so we'd all have to go to Hell. What is the slaughter of a few Midianite children against billions of souls?
@acr08807 So you're saying that an omnipotent god couldn't spawn Jesus without having his followers kill a whole group of people? (and thus, break a commandment that he himself gave them originally)
@LightningLion1585 I suppose He could have, but it would have lacked style. After all, Exodus tells us that Pharaoh wanted to free the Hebrews after each plague, but each time God hardened Pharaoh's heart so God would be able to show His power by inflicting more plagues. Don't you think freedom and salvation are worth more when it's bought with the lives of slaughtered children?
@LightningLion1585 I suppose that's true, but it's a real pain in the ass (and we know from Exodus 33:23 that God does have an ass) to design a natural disaster that keeps all of the virgin girls intact but kills everyone else. Besides, why should God have had to do all of the heavy lifting for the Hebrews? If you're helping one group to displace another from some land, is it too much to ask the group you're helping to slaughter the natives on its own?
@acr08807 (in response to first half) not really, actually, because, for example, the plague against the Egyptian's livestock killed all of their livestock but none of the Jews' livestock. It's very similar. (second half) it wouldn't be "too much", but it would justify genocide (which is immoral, and also sin) similar to the Crusades, etc.
@shieldsff PART 6 (last one, I swear) But then again, how can I, a simple human, possibly decipher the complexity of what is and isn't fucked up?
Well I'll tell you, I know my thoughts are real. I know my love for my family is real. I am responsible for my actions. And if I am wrong, then God shouldn't have made me an atheist.
Awesome rant my friend Matt. You are doing a world of good out there and I get such pleasure from listening to you expound your wisdom upon the pitifull moronic termites who call in. OK, they are not ALL pitifull moronic termites, but well...hmnnn...ya know?..come to think about it,...most of them ARE.
The Atheist Experience are a bunch of hypocrites; they block you if you raise sensible reasoned discussion points for open debate; they act like the people they accuse of not being open to reason and discussion and only want to take on poorly educated people on points which have been addressed and discussed for centuries; they need the extremist
To the poster: I would consider this far from a rant. More like an "Eloquent and Perfect" @alive4ever1 explanation of the hypocrisy and over all fallacy of this woman's irrational belief in cosmic justice. I don't think it could have been put forward any more simple and to the point.
The idea of posthumous, ubiquitous and divine justice renders human justice inescapably redundant. If you are the victim of a crime (as some of us tragically have been), do we desire justice in this life, or do we just stand back and say to ourselves, "Oh, don't worry, because that score will be settled by God later on. No need to call the police, no need to prosecute the person who wronged me, no need to do anything to right this wrong because God takes care of everything." This is not justice.
A sentence or two from philosopher Bertrand Russell settles this unsound Justice Argument. If you receive a crate of oranges and you take the lid off to find those of the first layer are all rotten, is it more rational to assume that all the oranges underneath are rotten also and you've just received a bad batch, or that the oranges underneath the bad layer have to be fresh in order to "redress the balance"?
I love his point about the comfort, odd as it sounds, of realizing that there is no divine justice, because it means you don't "deserve" the bad shit that happens to you.
well done, hoping for justice in the netherworld doesn't help justice in this world, and that's the one everyone seems to be concerned with. i hope matt plans on writing a book.
Does it feel good to think that somewhere Stalin, Hitler, and bin Laden are tortured forever and ever? I'll be honest, yes. It feels damn good to imagine that. I'm not a violent guy, but hell, I'm going to stop typing to think of it right now.
...
Awesome.
But what's the point? The purpose of punishment should be to dissuade people from doing evil. Many people don't believe they will go to hell for their evil. Indeed, the three men I mentioned thought what they did was the highest morality.
Why can't Santa Clause be our god? Santa might judge but at least he judges us by our actions and instead of being rewarded when we're dead, we're rewarded once a year with presents while we're alive. And hey, the only "punishment" we get is going an entire year without receiving his gifts, and these are gifts we ASK for too!
Yes Matt, and on & on & on you say the same thing over and over. You sound like a broken record. All atheists will NEVER understand God, the bible, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, etc. unless they come to a point in their life where it is LIFE VERSUS DEATH. Unless a person that has no belief whatsoever in God reaches a point where he or she will die, God will NOT BE CALLED ON. An atheist MUST experience near death in order to find God! Then, the power of God will manifest for this atheist. Amen.
@preragh: yes, I believe that too. About atheists and the near death experience; they may choose to view it another way other than God saving them from death. Atheists, like christians, can use logic & rationalize everything that happens here. If an atheist came close to death he/she might say something like this: Oh, thank-you Mother Earth for saving me. Or: Thank-you divine spirit for protecting me. Or: Great! I am still alive! Atheists do not see God as the giver & taker of life.
@idahopaula or you know they can also hey, thanks biological processes for producing the substances i needed, or in case of, thanks medics for your knowledge and abilities to cure me or get me better
@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
@yankwilliams Jesus mentioned you would get cold feet, that you would try contacting me directly and claim you were afraid of people making fun of you. Don't let your pride get in the way. You have been chosen to convert millions. Start taping now! God will do the talking.
@yankwilliams Oh my God! You're right! I prayed to him and he instantly told me you need to video tape yourself right now speaking in tongues and post it to Youtube within the hour. If you wait a second more it won't reach the right people who need to hear his glorious word. Start taping now, and he will speak through you to all who need to be saved. Believe me! God wouldn't lie. .
@yankwilliams Now post a youtube video of you speaking in tongues so that anyone who knows ancient languages can translate these messages from god. That would get you some converts!
@yankwilliams "I have prayed and got results on the spot!" then you can win a $1 million prize from the James Randi institute for successfully demonstrating the existence of supernatural powers under controlled conditions.
pure garbage, MD! there are many reasons to rest upon one's faith in God. putting one's faith in God for the wrong reasons still doesn't nullify God's existence.
your comment states your ignorance as to what constitutes evidence. before you answer, make sure you understand what is considered evidence and the many kinds thereof.
The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Now show me some evidence facts or information indicating God Exist. A book doesn't count because Harry Potter doesn't exist.
@ArchhereticK God never desires blind faith. He left a Bible written in history and subject to historical analysis and its veracity. He gives us the life of Christ which no serious historian can disprove. God gives His evidence in countless of fulfilled prophecies within history. The world gives evidence of His majesty and order. Science only deals with what is testable in terms of experiments. Science is not the Only way of knowing. Matt doesn't seem to get this... yet.
@ray7685 You need blind faith to accept one religion over another, the miracles of Vishnu are as well documented as Christs', The prophecies of Delphi were fulfilled with similar accuracy any other.
Science is the only way of knowing, everything else is faith, wishfull-thinking and superstition (faith isn't neccessarily bad). There could be god/gods/goddesses, but they can't all exist: However, they can all be wrong.
@ray7685 The one issue atheists have with you saying something like "He gives us the life of Christ which no serious historian can disprove." is why is the burden of proof on someone to disprove something? If I came to you and said that dragons are real and you claimed that they were not, then I can't simply say to you "Prove that I'm wrong?" They exist in Harry Potter and the Goblet or Fire.
Is there any other historical source (other than the Bible) that mentions Jesus?
@CubFan81 The problem with what you are saying rests in the misunderstanding of what is real or factual (using history as our base) vs imagination. You are comparing apples to oranges.
@ray7685 Historians have disproven Jesus' biblical existence. Aside from the Bible there is no historical record of Herod's mass slaughter of babies which seems like a pretty big deal for historians of the time to not write about. The Bible mentions that Jesus was born when Quirinius was governor, only Herod died 10 years before Quirinius ever became Governor. How was Herod able to learn of his birth & kill all those babies if he was already dead? Did someone fudge a story? Which one?
If jesus died for our sins, and i will repenet on the day that i die, i will be forgiven, meaning i can be evil, murder people rob, and do all the things that god forbids i will be forgiven anyway.
so where is the moral compas belevers are talking about ?,
@Silentsouls C'mon, it wouldn't be that simple. Obviously a line is drawn somewhere, and doing those things would be crossing it. Everyone does bad things, and makes mistakes, from time to time, it's what makes us human. If someone went ahead with full intent of murdering, raping etc someone, and didn't feel any guilt about it and went ahead with intent to do it again, then obviously that makes them evil.
But that also means that beleving in god or not would not matter in the judgement to go to hell or heaven (skipping the argument if there is a heaven or hell), but the way you behave in life would, wich in think is a better way to judge.
@Silentsouls No, you can't do that! Duh. I mean, yes you can be saved no matter what but...you can't do that. Well, you can but...it's complicated. Whatever! You wouldn't understand!!!!!!!!!I!UIJJ!EKLMLKDwsq
@darththeo because you have to be truly sorry in order to have God accept you back. If there was a God, he would be extremely fond of humans as he created them wouldn't he? So logically if he didn't accept you back, even though you were truly sorry for your crimes, and wished you never committed them, he wouldn't be a kind loving God would he? And just because people who aren't religious kill and rape and steal doesn't mean that religious people have no religious compass.
@EducateTroll That doesn't answer my question, you called him an idiot ... and who says a murdering, raping thief may not at the time of death feel sorry for all the harm he has done?
@darththeo 1. You're fucking retarded if you don't see why I called him an idiot.
2. "and who says a murdering, raping thief may not at the time of death feel sorry for all the harm he has done?" Nobody said that. What the fuck are you trying to point out? If somebody is truly sorry for all of the inherently wrong things they have done, God would forgive them. It doesn't matter what they did
@EducateTroll 1. I asked you a question because I don't see how what he said was idiotic, I merely see you don't agree. That isn't being retarded. You failed to answer the question. How is what he said idiotic?
2. God forgives evil people. Therefor there is no reason to be a good person so long as you honestly repent. You can do whatever you want for however long you want and as long as you feel truly sorry for it, God will forgive you so long as you believe.
@darththeo 1. Because I pointed out his lapse in logic.
2. You're so dumb it's infuriating. If you rape kill and steal thinking that you'll just "honestly repent" you aren't a good person, and won't be TRULY SORRY in the end. You can't just decide that you'll be truly sorry all of a sudden in order to take advantage of God, whom if exists would be an all knowing all seeing spiritual/energetic entity.
@EducateTroll 1) Calling someone an idiot is not pointing out a lapse in logic, he didn't have one therefor you are lying to me or wish to save face. Given that you insult me rather than answer, I find you calling anyone an idiot humorous at best.
2) Insult and don't actually bring up a valid argument, good job. People can do wrong and know that if they repent and believe they were wrong, that is all the is required so long as you believe.
@EducateTroll Now, I am going to ask you, to lay off the insults or I will treat you as you deserve. I ask you to explain yourself and you have failed to make a decent attempt to do so. And btw, not using logic =/= an idiot, those two things are different and if you haven't learn that, maybe you need to educate yourself.
@darththeo 1. Having such pitiful logic does make you an idiot, but I guess that an idiot like you wouldn't be able to see that due to your pitiful logic.
2. You asked me to lay off the insults, insulted me, and never countered any of my statements.
@EducateTroll 1. That is pitiful logic ... even the most intelligent people can say or do things idiotically.
2. I am not trying to counter your statement, I am trying to get you to explain your statement. You made a claim, I am asking for your support. I don't need to show that silent is not an idiot, I have claimed nothing. This argument is about your defense of your statement, and you failed to support it.
@EducateTroll 1) Intelligent people, you know people who are not IDIOTS, can say idiotic things and use pitiful logic. That is why your logic is pitiful. Just because what is said was idiotic, doesn't make the person an idiot.
2) Calling something a lapse in logic doesn't make it one. Therefor, since there is no evidence there was a lapse in logic, it isn't logical to assume it was ... still haven't explained your claim.
@darththeo Wow, okay you obviously have the logic of a 5th grader. I'm done arguing. Come talk to me in 10 years when that pathetic lump of gray matter you call your brain learns to work itself properly.
@EducateTroll Considering, you were the first to fling insults and never actually made a point, I don't see how my brain is the one that is pathetic ... perhaps you are a troll that needs education, hence your name.
1) I haven't used incorrect logic ... you don't like the logic therefor it is incorrect to you ... THAT, is incorrect logic. Christianity allows people to do HORRIBLE THINGS IN LIFE and still get the ultimate reward, that is a fact ... like it or not.
2) You never answered my original question, you used completely pitiful excuse for logic and think you haven't. .
3) When confronted, you insulted. You argue poorly.
@EducateTroll Now, before you respond. Christianity allows people to live there life however they want and merely by believing that Jesus is their savior is enough. It never even clear on what is needed to considered to have "repented" for your sins. Nothing about what silentsouls said was idiotic by any stretch of the word ... YOU didn't like the logic that he had used. YOU can't even defend your statement with anything remotely logical. You are childish, You are a troll.
@darththeo R you kidding me they have to be good adn sutf or else they will go to hell. What the fuck are you talking about my logic is impeccable you just must be a fucking 3rd grader or something. Get off youtube and go back to Mario Kart fucking pussy. You're arguing with the likes of Aristotle here, boy. You better learn your fucking place.
@EducateTroll Wrong, Christianity requires no works to get into heaven ... just faith. It is a faith based, as long as you believe Christ died for your sin, you are in. Your logic is far from impeccable, and if it was, it could stand on its own without your pathetic attempts to insult. I am not arguing with the likes of Aristotle here because you are no where near that caliber and if you think you are, you are a fool. Frankly, you failed and you can't handle that can you?
@darththeo Just faith? Are you fucking kidding me? You must are by far the biggest waste of human intellect I have ever had the misfortune of encountering on Youtube. You said that my logic was impeccable because of my pathetic attempts to insult, but you just insulted me dumbass. Hypocrisy, thy name is darththeo. Go buy a 4th grade book on Christianity and come back when you have a basic understanding of it. I can't argue with somebody who is a fucking moron.
@EducateTroll Funny, the only person who is being a moron is you. You are aware that the Bible advocates Genocide, Rape, and Murder ... so long as you do it in God's name. The God of the Bible created man KNOWING they would sin and turn against him and then punishes them for it. The only means of repentance is to confess your sins to God/Jesus as outlined in the Bible and accept Jesus as your savior ... that is the only "works" required. Be honest about your sins, that's it.
@darththeo Also about your second argument with the whole creating humanity knowing that we would sin: First of all if there was a God, he would have created time, so he would not have a past or a future like we do, so that rules out the argument that is often paired with that one. Second of all, yes of course God "knows" that some of us will sin, but what would be the point of us all being robots and not earning our way into heaven? God wants us to freely choose to follow him.
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@ninjajesus81
# You said: "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior". Well, our biological function, the orgasm, a reward for pre-orgasmic behaviour, by YOUR logic, makes that behaviour moral. Hence rape / necrophilia become moral.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@ninjajesus81
# "We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks" Necrophiliacs aren't always aware of health risks, & obviously they don't care. Also, a body can be enbalmed / newly dead. Anyway, l've never heard of a necrophiliac dying from it, at least, it doesn't seem common to die from it.
So it still stands: You cannot condemn necrophilia based on your sense of morality.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
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hatloverxxx 2 days ago
By the way, this video is excellent, well done to the atheist for making a reasoned, cool-headed argument.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
Excuse me.
Can you please tell me what morals Atheism has? Atheism has NONE.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@hatloverxxx Atheism is not a religion, therefore it doesnt teach the philosophy of morals. However, most atheists are law abiding citizens who realize that the basic "sins"(murder, stealing, rape,ect.) are wrong, not because an imaginary being told them so, but because its morals that should be embeded in your fucking skull. Not believing in god doesnt make a person immoral, it just makes them right.
weedbeast13 2 days ago
@weedbeast13 The only salvagable satement from your reply is: "Not believing in god doesnt make a person immoral, it just makes them right."
Thanks!
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@hatloverxxx No morals are better than bad morals. Atheism has no teaching to tell you to do bad things, like killing your neighbor for working on Sunday. Religion does.
That's why atheists get their morals from evolution. Our morals evolved just as we did. Doing good things makes you feel good, not because the Bible tells you to do it, but because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior. What goes around, comes around. Being nice to others benefits you.
ninjajesus81 2 days ago
@ninjajesus81
# "atheists get their morals from evolution"
I don't see how evolution is congruent with morality - the two are in separate realities. Can you give an example of a moral which is based on evolution?
# "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior"
That actually justifies rape!
# "Being nice to others benefits you."
A necrophiliac has fun, & leaves no victim. You have no way of condemning this as immoral.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@hatloverxxx Morals are mental and minds evolve just like the rest of your body. An example is hurting other people. Whenever me and my friends box with huge gloves, if I get a good hit on one of them, I feel bad about it and apologize. That bad feeling is biologically induced. That evolved. Hurting innocent people is detrimental to you, so evolution caused us to be averse to doing that.
Contrary to religion, that bad feeling doesn't come from god or me knowing the Bible condemns it.
ninjajesus81 2 days ago
@ninjajesus81 You haven't explained how any moral is related to evolution. You said bad feeling from wrongdoing = biologically induced (extremely debatable) thus related to evolution because evolution is the only explanation for biology.
Also you haven't answered:
# "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior"
That actually justifies rape!
# "Being nice to others benefits you."
A necrophiliac has fun, & leaves no victim. You have no way of condemning this as immoral.
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@hatloverxxx Well, I told you that biological processes evolve, we know this. Well, your mind is a biological process as well, and that's where your morals are stored. Now, I don't think there's any direct evidence, but there's also no alternative explanation. Unless you think humans and our pre-human ancestors have just always had the same morals.
And if you think it's debatable that bad feelings aren't caused by biological processes, I'd love to know what you think causes them.
ninjajesus81 2 days ago
@ninjajesus81
# "How is rape a beneficial behavior?". You said: "because our biological functions reward us for beneficial behavior". Well, our biological function, the orgasm, which is a
reward for pre-orgasmic behaviour, by YOUR logic makes that behaviour moral. Hence rape / necrophilia become moral.
hatloverxxx 1 day ago
@hatloverxxx Orgasms are the reward for the beneficial behavior of procreation. Your body doesn't distinguish how you achieve it. But most people don't rape because it's more detrimental than beneficial to us.
ninjajesus81 1 day ago
@ninjajesus81
# "We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks" Necrophiliacs aren't always aware of health risks, & obviously, they don't care anyway (also, "bad smell" could be a reason not to have sex at all / to ban gay / anal sex). Also, a body can be enbalmed, or newly dead. Anyway, l've never heard of a necrophiliac dying of disease / it doesn't seem normal that a necrophiliac dies of disease.
It stands: You can't condemn necrophilia based on your sense of morality.
hatloverxxx 1 day ago
@hatloverxxx My morality is based on not doing something to someone else that I wouldn't want done to me. I wouldn't want to be raped after I die, so I would say it's not moral to do that to someone else.
That's my sense of morality. What's wrong with that?
Where do you think we get our morals from?
ninjajesus81 1 day ago
@ninjajesus81 You've added a new concept. Initially, you said being nice to others benefits you.
The point about necrophilia is that the other person in the dipole is no longer a variable, they're just "zero". Hence by your opening equation, if necrophilia makes you sad, then it's immoral, if it makes you happy, then it's moral, seeing as the corpse is a "zero".
Next q: What is "nice"? Why is it bad to have your body shagged after death? What if the deceased agreed to it before death?
hatloverxxx 1 day ago
@hatloverxxx Being nice to others does benefit you, did I contradict myself? What concept am I adding that negates what I've already said?
I said being nice to others benefits you, which it does. And just because something makes you happy, doesn't make it moral. I never said that. Even killing makes some people happy. That doesn't mean it's moral.
And if they agreed to it before they died, then it's consentual.
ninjajesus81 1 day ago
@ninjajesus81 You made it seem that morality is defined in reciprocation.
Extend this to necrophilia, where the other person is dead, inactive, as explained. If we continue to say morality = whatever is in the reciprocation of an act (if good is returned, then the act was good), then the morality of necrophilia is 100% in the mind of the enactor, because corpse gives no feedback.
Define:
"moral"
"nice"
"Good"
+ Categorise consensual necrophilia as moral/immoral/explain how an act is amoral?
hatloverxxx 1 day ago
@hatloverxxx Well, reciprocation is a part of why our morality evolved the way it did. If you help someone, then they're more likely to help you.
We have a natural tendency to respect the dead. Why? I don't know, but an evolutionary anthropologist, or whatever, could probably provide a logical explanation that may be the reason why.
So we don't have sex with dead people because we respect the dead, and also because we try to stay away from dead things for health reasons.
ninjajesus81 19 hours ago
@ninjajesus81 You've not answered any of the points raised in my last post. Also "could probabIy provide a logical explanation" is a phrase illogical in itself, and certainly has no place in a debate. I feel this debate has come to a dead end. Thank you and goodbye.
hatloverxxx 15 hours ago
@hatloverxxx You're just one of those people who purposely make it impossible to talk to you.
ninjajesus81 15 hours ago
@ninjajesus81 No need to get personal, bye.
hatloverxxx 15 hours ago
@hatloverxxx I did answer those last two questions. Look down, I made two posts.
ninjajesus81 2 days ago
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@ninjajesus81 @ninjajesus81
You said bad feeling from wrongdoing = biologically induced (extremely debatable) thus related to evolution
= circular argument that the basis of everything is evolution, therefore morals are based on evolution
MEEP MEEP It doesn't matter what my beliefs are, this video / you are making a positive assertion that there is no God.
hatloverxxx 1 day ago
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@ninjajesus81
You said bad feeling from wrongdoing = biologically induced (extremely debatable) thus related to evolution
= circular argument that the basis of everything is evolution, therefore morals are based on evolution
hatloverxxx 2 days ago
@hatloverxxx How is rape a beneficial behavior? Where do you think sympathy comes from? God? We feel sympathy for people who get treated badly, therefore, normal people don't feel right treating people badly.
Necrophiliacs have sex with dead bodies. We're naturally averse to dead bodies because of the health risks being around them. That's why they smell so god awful to us.
But I can't say it's immoral, just like I can't say cannibalism is immoral (if they're already dead).
ninjajesus81 2 days ago
Home run. Touchdown. Checkered flag. Game, set, match. Bingo. Checkmate.
brabanthallen 5 days ago
The wee bald guy has a cheek to talk about Christian morality, when he's the one guilty of invoking a moral panic.
Talk about confusing the issue....and he wonders why he's not taken seriously?
:)
DastardlyDawkins 5 days ago
This is battle of wits. the woman brought a pocket knife. Matt brought 10 kunai, a katana, a derringers, two magnums, two desert eagles, a sawed-off shotgun, a chain gun, rail gun, missles, rockets, the latest Iron Man armor with ALL the armaments, a battalion of lvl 4 super saiyans, the world of Armored Core, 100 nukes, and access to an orbital plasma cannon that is accurate to a 2-foot radius
Your move, ma'am.
AeonPhoenixZero 6 days ago 19
@AeonPhoenixZero
Best....Comment....Ever.
bdwilson1000 6 days ago 6
@AeonPhoenixZero
Her next move was to tell him his penis was tiny?
TheTitteringNinja 4 days ago
@TheTitteringNinja *Pistol whip*:)
AeonPhoenixZero 4 days ago
@AeonPhoenixZero You win just by saying Armored Core.
Nepycros 1 hour ago
@AeonPhoenixZero a battalion of lvl 4 super saiyans... priceless
fray502 5 minutes ago
Beautiful... does anyone know what episode this is from?
618033988749 1 week ago
You object to the wisdom & judgments of God & ask if His actions fair, right or good ? Have you asked yourself what is good ? What human or even yourself has the ability to make determinations about the nature of the universe, human nature or the value of people's lives. You inveigh against God with me,but I am not a moral authority- only God is the Creator &source of values. So if U dislike the fullness of what Creator has made what on earth do U mean by good?
shieldsff 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff (PART 1) What you mean by us not understanding good and bad can mean one of two things, so I'd like to respond to both. You could be referring to people's actions, world occurrences, or both.
Why would a rational God make the differentiation between right and wrong such a difficult concept for human beings to comprehend? To me, being good and doing the right thing is, for the most part, pretty simple. I help others when I see help is needed, I show respect, (CONTINUED ON PART 2)
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff PART 2 gratitude, consideration towards others, etc. I also choose not to hurt others, steal, harass, rape, murder, discriminate, vandalize, etc. Yes, there is gray, but in those difficult times, the act itself of trying to determine which decision is right and which is wrong, is something only a good natured person would concern themselves with. We have free will, and the ability to distinguish good and bad. Simply put, those who strive to be good are good people. CONTINUED ON PART 3
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff PART 3 As for happenings and the way things are in the world, I get what you're saying. I've heard that God works in mysterious ways, and everything happens for a reason. It's all part of an elabortate plan. What we consider a bad occurrence, has some kind of complicated butterfly effect that ultimately contributes to a good result, thus maintaining the balance of this infinite puzzle. That means the God himself must have micro managed every single event in the CONTINUED ON PART 4
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
@undeadhead -"I've heard that God works in mysterious ways, and everything happens for a reason. It's all part of an elabortate plan."
Sorry, but I do not believe that and I am not say that at all. Have you read the BIble ?
Check out the book of Job/ Also see Psalms. chap 119 & 32. thanks
shieldsff 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff PART 4 history of our entire existence (past, present, future) down to the smallest unfathomable detail… I cannot accept that, because it contradicts my first point. That would mean that I am not responsible for my actions, or even my thoughts. If I decided not to go to work and stay in bed, not work out and get fat, blow all my money on drugs, kill hundreds of people, that wouldn't have been my decision in the first place, because I am but a pawn in this CONTINUED ON PART 5
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
@undeadhead -"I cannot accept that, because it contradicts my first point. That would mean that I am not responsible for my actions, or even my thoughts. "
Sorry, but I do not believe that and I am not say that at all. You should probably read Gen. 1-3 , Romans 1 and the book of Proverbs
shieldsff 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff PART 5 predetermined, intelligent design. I wouldn't have free will, even if I thought I did. Sure, I guess it is possible, but that would mean that those bad people out there that do bad things aren't really responsible for their actions. It would mean that everything I'm doing, including the typing of this comment, was arranged by God. In that sense, everyone who goes to hell never stood a chance. They were always meant to be damned, which is fucked up. CONTINUED ON PART 6
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
@undeadhead -Sorry, but I do not believe that.....Have you read the Bible.
Let me suggest the Gospel of John Chap 1-3
Grace to you !
shieldsff 2 weeks ago
@shieldsff So you believe that things slip by God? Things happen that he didn't approve or plan on? Wouldn't that would suggest that there is no set plan, and certain things do in fact happen for no reason? If I write a book, I can't control the direction of the storyline if the characters think for themselves and choose their own actions.
undeadhead 1 week ago
@undeadhead
Hello there. May I be so bold as to advise that you save your time and thought in this conversation you have been sharing with the Shields character below? What kind of enlightening conversation can be had from someone who may as well have tattooed across their forehead: "For my opinion, see Bible." ?
As for me, I await the day when a theist can explain to me *precisely* why God allows children to be snatched from their parents' arms by genetic disorders and terminal disease.
ardendogma 1 week ago
@ardendogma Curiosity gets the best of me at times. I have yet to receive a thought provoking answer to my question. Sadly, my mind has only been blown by other's stupidity.
undeadhead 1 week ago
I think you already are so I doubt you need further permission..In any case, like me I am sure many others completely fail to see any logic or reason in the assertion that 'god' (perhaps you refer here to your idea of god) is the responsible party for any such things, or for that matter anything not objectively good at all. If you want to better understand what Christians would hold Him responsible for I can only recommend 1st John in the Bible
shieldsff 1 week ago
@shieldsff
For myself, I fail to past the glaring contradiction within the Christian doctrine of God's omnibenevolence with respect to the needless suffering of His children. Mark Twain said in this subject, "It is plain that there is one moral law for heaven and another for the earth."
You see, I can prescribe man-made pieces of literature too, except in my case, the context of my quote is, I should think, abruptly and incontrovertibly clear.
ardendogma 1 week ago
@shieldsff
If you wish to further this conversation, kindly desist from including chapters of your one book; I am simply not interested. I want YOUR opinions, not those of your one book. You admonish others for not appreciating the seemingly metaphorical and abstruse context of the Bible, yet you make little to no effort to explain that context, even though you have accused the other party of ignorance. It's no good telling someone they're ignorant - you need to explain to them how they are.
ardendogma 1 week ago
@ardendogma well said and bravo
sepiasiren 1 week ago
@sepiasiren Thank-you for your kind words. Much appreciated.
ardendogma 1 week ago
@undeadhead - No I don't agree that there cannot be a set plan because unfortunate events happen..In logic, it's fairly well established that because something is correlated doesn't mean that it's caused. Neither does it suggests that 'things slip by'. the Creator of all things, time and eternity
shieldsff 1 week ago
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@shieldsff
Like I asked earlier, what kind of enlightening conversation can be had from someone who may as well have tattooed across their forehead: "For my opinion, see Bible."?
Unless you have your OWN thoughts and observations on such matters, without feeling the need to holster them on a holy book, then I am afraid this will devolve into a conversation not worth having. Thank-you.
ardendogma 1 week ago
@shieldsff Okay, so God is only responsible for causing the good stuff. The rest of it, he either sits back and says, "oh well," or he can't do anything about. Hmm, God doesn't sound all that powerful to me. Thanks for clearing that up.
undeadhead 1 week ago 2
@undeadhead Booyah!
sepiasiren 1 week ago
@shieldsff Reading the Bible is great! I like Numbers 31 the best. Do you like Numbers 31?
acr08807 1 week ago
@acr08807 - actually, I like the entire account.... Reading IN CONTEXT is actually how it has always been intended to be understood. Make sense now ?!?
shieldsff 1 week ago
@shieldsff Yes! Absolutely! God, filled with love, wanted the Israelites to slaughter the the indiginous populations of Palestine and take their land so they could flourish and spread light to the world and give us our Lord Jesus Christ. Looked upon that way, it's really a good thing that God ordered the slaughter of all of the men and children and married women and the enslavement of the virginal girls, from whom God took his cut. Thanks!
acr08807 1 week ago
what can be said to you about this.? For someone (such as yourself) who clearly refuses to read the full account&to take into consideration any CONTEXT there is no apparent exchange which would prove productive.Assuming this account is true & honest (as U appear to accept) one would strongly urge trying to understand what this Creator God is saying and immediately take all sincere effort to please him.Such willful rejection; were the Nazi also hapless victims in your make-up history?
shieldsff 1 week ago
@shieldsff First, of course the account is true--it's the BIBLE. Everything in the Bible is true. What CONTEXT am I missing? If God hadn't had the Midianites slain and the virgins taken as slaves, including taking a few slavegirls Himself, then the Israelites would never have settled in Israel and God never would have been able to sacrifice Jesus for the sins of mankind, so we'd all have to go to Hell. What is the slaughter of a few Midianite children against billions of souls?
acr08807 1 week ago
@acr08807 So you're saying that an omnipotent god couldn't spawn Jesus without having his followers kill a whole group of people? (and thus, break a commandment that he himself gave them originally)
LightningLion1585 1 week ago
@LightningLion1585 I suppose He could have, but it would have lacked style. After all, Exodus tells us that Pharaoh wanted to free the Hebrews after each plague, but each time God hardened Pharaoh's heart so God would be able to show His power by inflicting more plagues. Don't you think freedom and salvation are worth more when it's bought with the lives of slaughtered children?
acr08807 1 week ago
@acr08807 Hm. I don't think having to violate His own logic is very 'stylish'. I think some kind of natural disaster would have been more stylish :P
LightningLion1585 1 week ago
@LightningLion1585 I suppose that's true, but it's a real pain in the ass (and we know from Exodus 33:23 that God does have an ass) to design a natural disaster that keeps all of the virgin girls intact but kills everyone else. Besides, why should God have had to do all of the heavy lifting for the Hebrews? If you're helping one group to displace another from some land, is it too much to ask the group you're helping to slaughter the natives on its own?
acr08807 1 week ago
@acr08807 (in response to first half) not really, actually, because, for example, the plague against the Egyptian's livestock killed all of their livestock but none of the Jews' livestock. It's very similar. (second half) it wouldn't be "too much", but it would justify genocide (which is immoral, and also sin) similar to the Crusades, etc.
LightningLion1585 1 week ago
@shieldsff PART 6 (last one, I swear) But then again, how can I, a simple human, possibly decipher the complexity of what is and isn't fucked up?
Well I'll tell you, I know my thoughts are real. I know my love for my family is real. I am responsible for my actions. And if I am wrong, then God shouldn't have made me an atheist.
undeadhead 2 weeks ago
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@undeadhead -"how can I, a simple human,"
exactly- how can you ?!?
shieldsff 2 weeks ago
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Wow. Read it again slowly thank you
helenbw9 2 weeks ago
Awesome rant my friend Matt. You are doing a world of good out there and I get such pleasure from listening to you expound your wisdom upon the pitifull moronic termites who call in. OK, they are not ALL pitifull moronic termites, but well...hmnnn...ya know?..come to think about it,...most of them ARE.
zideffil 2 weeks ago
F.O.O.L.
virtualguitarist 2 weeks ago
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein
Blasthood 3 weeks ago 22
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The Atheist Experience are a bunch of hypocrites; they block you if you raise sensible reasoned discussion points for open debate; they act like the people they accuse of not being open to reason and discussion and only want to take on poorly educated people on points which have been addressed and discussed for centuries; they need the extremist
no1hoopsman 3 weeks ago
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82dr89bg 4 weeks ago
er is geen spelt tussen te krijgen ...
drizer4real 1 month ago
To the poster: I would consider this far from a rant. More like an "Eloquent and Perfect" @alive4ever1 explanation of the hypocrisy and over all fallacy of this woman's irrational belief in cosmic justice. I don't think it could have been put forward any more simple and to the point.
SinceretheGhost 1 month ago
SO ELOQUENT AND PERFECT.
alive4ever1 1 month ago 20
The idea of posthumous, ubiquitous and divine justice renders human justice inescapably redundant. If you are the victim of a crime (as some of us tragically have been), do we desire justice in this life, or do we just stand back and say to ourselves, "Oh, don't worry, because that score will be settled by God later on. No need to call the police, no need to prosecute the person who wronged me, no need to do anything to right this wrong because God takes care of everything." This is not justice.
ardendogma 1 month ago
A sentence or two from philosopher Bertrand Russell settles this unsound Justice Argument. If you receive a crate of oranges and you take the lid off to find those of the first layer are all rotten, is it more rational to assume that all the oranges underneath are rotten also and you've just received a bad batch, or that the oranges underneath the bad layer have to be fresh in order to "redress the balance"?
Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself.
ardendogma 1 month ago
I would like to loop parts of this along with some groovy chill down tempo...
kaduisaui 1 month ago 2
I love his point about the comfort, odd as it sounds, of realizing that there is no divine justice, because it means you don't "deserve" the bad shit that happens to you.
lordlacolith 1 month ago
erm, he wasnt ranting in this video.
Hemmersfield1 1 month ago
Freedom is my Deity.
foamulator 1 month ago
bit unfair to call this a rant, it's more a rebuttal.
Brascofarian 1 month ago
Uhh...not even close to a rant by any definition.
When Matt rants you know it. Here he's reading someone's letter. Not his words, not his rant.
Also, his voice was steady and he didn't hang up on anybody, a major marker of Matt's rants.
Poorly titled.
sKepptiksowat 2 months ago
Best rant ever
Campineiroamericano 2 months ago
@Gaybykersonacid Surely a troll...go away...time waster...
"If he didn't then we would have no bible." ???????????
Do you speak english, or is this a second language, if not you seriously need to return to grade school and redo your abc's.
As your little phrase here made very little to no sense?
But hey, you believe what written in the bible so we know your severely lacking in sense.
Just try not to waste everyone else's time chiming in with nonsense...
Christopholaes 2 months ago
well done, hoping for justice in the netherworld doesn't help justice in this world, and that's the one everyone seems to be concerned with. i hope matt plans on writing a book.
tomitstube 2 months ago
@Gaybykersonacid And New York is proof that Spiderman is real.
XheraPhine 2 months ago
@Gaybykersonacid
Harry Potter books are proof wizards exist. If they didn't exist the book wouldn't have been written, duh.
bowlsallbroken 2 months ago
This shit is air-tight.
If it can't be called a hitchslap... May I coin the term "dillapunt"?
bowlsallbroken 2 months ago
@Gaybykersonacid that's like saying teeth are evidence for the existence of the tooth fairy.
V00D00SIXXX 2 months ago
@V00D00SIXXX What are you talking about? The Tooth Fairy exist, if she doesn't then why was there a dollar under my pillow?
DKshad0w 2 months ago
@DKshad0w She??? Come on, the tooth fairy is clearly a man. Blasphemy....
pegasusfreedom 2 months ago
Does it feel good to think that somewhere Stalin, Hitler, and bin Laden are tortured forever and ever? I'll be honest, yes. It feels damn good to imagine that. I'm not a violent guy, but hell, I'm going to stop typing to think of it right now.
...
Awesome.
But what's the point? The purpose of punishment should be to dissuade people from doing evil. Many people don't believe they will go to hell for their evil. Indeed, the three men I mentioned thought what they did was the highest morality.
kissfan7 2 months ago
Why can't Santa Clause be our god? Santa might judge but at least he judges us by our actions and instead of being rewarded when we're dead, we're rewarded once a year with presents while we're alive. And hey, the only "punishment" we get is going an entire year without receiving his gifts, and these are gifts we ASK for too!
berner 2 months ago 2
@yankwilliams My son could speak in tongues @ birth. Your god shafted you on this one. You had to ask!
ProblemHonorStudent 2 months ago
I wouldn't call it a rant but it is the greatest
Nemesis000000 2 months ago
Okay.
idahopaula 2 months ago
Yes Matt, and on & on & on you say the same thing over and over. You sound like a broken record. All atheists will NEVER understand God, the bible, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, etc. unless they come to a point in their life where it is LIFE VERSUS DEATH. Unless a person that has no belief whatsoever in God reaches a point where he or she will die, God will NOT BE CALLED ON. An atheist MUST experience near death in order to find God! Then, the power of God will manifest for this atheist. Amen.
idahopaula 2 months ago
@idahopaula There has been atheist with near death experiences, and they're still atheists...
preragh 2 months ago 2
@preragh: yes, I believe that too. About atheists and the near death experience; they may choose to view it another way other than God saving them from death. Atheists, like christians, can use logic & rationalize everything that happens here. If an atheist came close to death he/she might say something like this: Oh, thank-you Mother Earth for saving me. Or: Thank-you divine spirit for protecting me. Or: Great! I am still alive! Atheists do not see God as the giver & taker of life.
idahopaula 2 months ago
@idahopaula or you know they can also hey, thanks biological processes for producing the substances i needed, or in case of, thanks medics for your knowledge and abilities to cure me or get me better
preragh 2 months ago
@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
idahopaula 2 months ago
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@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
idahopaula 2 months ago
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@preragh: Yah, I agree with the atheist responses as you stated here. I am a christian, so I give all the glory and praise to God Almighty and to Jesus Christ as he is the Savior of this world according to a born again christian. As I see it, God would intervene in this experience as I have been through an episode like this and he came to me. I am here and have had several times where God showed up after I prayed diligently for him. Amen.
idahopaula 2 months ago
@yankwilliams Jesus mentioned you would get cold feet, that you would try contacting me directly and claim you were afraid of people making fun of you. Don't let your pride get in the way. You have been chosen to convert millions. Start taping now! God will do the talking.
adrianwbourne 2 months ago
@yankwilliams Oh my God! You're right! I prayed to him and he instantly told me you need to video tape yourself right now speaking in tongues and post it to Youtube within the hour. If you wait a second more it won't reach the right people who need to hear his glorious word. Start taping now, and he will speak through you to all who need to be saved. Believe me! God wouldn't lie. .
adrianwbourne 2 months ago
@yankwilliams Now post a youtube video of you speaking in tongues so that anyone who knows ancient languages can translate these messages from god. That would get you some converts!
adrianwbourne 2 months ago
@yankwilliams burden of proof is on you, pal. What's your proof and evidence that fairies aren't real?
adrianwbourne 2 months ago
your claiming god is real...isent it up to you for the proof?
rickyq61 2 months ago
@yankwilliams Well said and true.
zestydude87 2 months ago
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@yankwilliams "I have prayed and got results on the spot!" then you can win a $1 million prize from the James Randi institute for successfully demonstrating the existence of supernatural powers under controlled conditions.
TheAlexxxxxxxxxxx 2 months ago 3
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I wanna meet matt, he sounds like a legend
TheFlowdiskord 2 months ago
I wanna meet matt, he sounds like a legend
TheFlowdiskord 2 months ago
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@ray7685
"All God asks of you is to believe that He died for your sins."
We know what you believe, and we point out to you that it makes no sense at all.
MomoTheBellyDancer 2 months ago
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MomoTheBellyDancer 2 months ago
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MomoTheBellyDancer 2 months ago
Gotta love Matt.
ZDWario 2 months ago
hmm... I once knew what capricious meant.
DngerousRadical 2 months ago
Excellent
Schnigtheatheist 2 months ago
pure garbage, MD! there are many reasons to rest upon one's faith in God. putting one's faith in God for the wrong reasons still doesn't nullify God's existence.
ray7685 2 months ago
@ray7685 no it doesn't, the lack of evidence sure does though.
MAZ1N00 2 months ago
your comment states your ignorance as to what constitutes evidence. before you answer, make sure you understand what is considered evidence and the many kinds thereof.
ray7685 2 months ago
@ray7685
The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Now show me some evidence facts or information indicating God Exist. A book doesn't count because Harry Potter doesn't exist.
MAZ1N00 2 months ago
@ray7685 Are there really any good reasons to rest one's faith in gods?
I'm not saying therre are no gods/god/goddesses/spirits etc. but how can we determine that there are any without blind faith and wishfull thinking?
ArchhereticK 2 months ago
@ArchhereticK God never desires blind faith. He left a Bible written in history and subject to historical analysis and its veracity. He gives us the life of Christ which no serious historian can disprove. God gives His evidence in countless of fulfilled prophecies within history. The world gives evidence of His majesty and order. Science only deals with what is testable in terms of experiments. Science is not the Only way of knowing. Matt doesn't seem to get this... yet.
ray7685 2 months ago
@ray7685 You need blind faith to accept one religion over another, the miracles of Vishnu are as well documented as Christs', The prophecies of Delphi were fulfilled with similar accuracy any other.
Science is the only way of knowing, everything else is faith, wishfull-thinking and superstition (faith isn't neccessarily bad). There could be god/gods/goddesses, but they can't all exist: However, they can all be wrong.
ArchhereticK 2 months ago 2
@ray7685 The one issue atheists have with you saying something like "He gives us the life of Christ which no serious historian can disprove." is why is the burden of proof on someone to disprove something? If I came to you and said that dragons are real and you claimed that they were not, then I can't simply say to you "Prove that I'm wrong?" They exist in Harry Potter and the Goblet or Fire.
Is there any other historical source (other than the Bible) that mentions Jesus?
CubFan81 2 months ago
@CubFan81 The problem with what you are saying rests in the misunderstanding of what is real or factual (using history as our base) vs imagination. You are comparing apples to oranges.
ray7685 2 months ago
@ray7685 Historians have disproven Jesus' biblical existence. Aside from the Bible there is no historical record of Herod's mass slaughter of babies which seems like a pretty big deal for historians of the time to not write about. The Bible mentions that Jesus was born when Quirinius was governor, only Herod died 10 years before Quirinius ever became Governor. How was Herod able to learn of his birth & kill all those babies if he was already dead? Did someone fudge a story? Which one?
CubFan81 2 months ago
@CubFan81
ray7685 2 months ago
Until I try lion, to me pig is king of animals.
MrBaklava4 2 months ago
If jesus died for our sins, and i will repenet on the day that i die, i will be forgiven, meaning i can be evil, murder people rob, and do all the things that god forbids i will be forgiven anyway.
so where is the moral compas belevers are talking about ?,
Silentsouls 3 months ago 38
@Silentsouls C'mon, it wouldn't be that simple. Obviously a line is drawn somewhere, and doing those things would be crossing it. Everyone does bad things, and makes mistakes, from time to time, it's what makes us human. If someone went ahead with full intent of murdering, raping etc someone, and didn't feel any guilt about it and went ahead with intent to do it again, then obviously that makes them evil.
RickkoD1982 2 months ago
@RickkoD1982 I agree,
But that also means that beleving in god or not would not matter in the judgement to go to hell or heaven (skipping the argument if there is a heaven or hell), but the way you behave in life would, wich in think is a better way to judge.
Silentsouls 2 months ago
@Silentsouls No, you can't do that! Duh. I mean, yes you can be saved no matter what but...you can't do that. Well, you can but...it's complicated. Whatever! You wouldn't understand!!!!!!!!!I!UIJJ!EKLMLKDwsq
gatorhighlights4 2 months ago
@Silentsouls you're an idiot
EducateTroll 2 months ago
@EducateTroll How is Silentsouls an idiot?
darththeo 2 months ago
@darththeo because you have to be truly sorry in order to have God accept you back. If there was a God, he would be extremely fond of humans as he created them wouldn't he? So logically if he didn't accept you back, even though you were truly sorry for your crimes, and wished you never committed them, he wouldn't be a kind loving God would he? And just because people who aren't religious kill and rape and steal doesn't mean that religious people have no religious compass.
EducateTroll 2 months ago
@EducateTroll That doesn't answer my question, you called him an idiot ... and who says a murdering, raping thief may not at the time of death feel sorry for all the harm he has done?
darththeo 2 months ago
@darththeo 1. You're fucking retarded if you don't see why I called him an idiot.
2. "and who says a murdering, raping thief may not at the time of death feel sorry for all the harm he has done?" Nobody said that. What the fuck are you trying to point out? If somebody is truly sorry for all of the inherently wrong things they have done, God would forgive them. It doesn't matter what they did
EducateTroll 1 month ago
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darththeo 1 month ago
@EducateTroll 1. I asked you a question because I don't see how what he said was idiotic, I merely see you don't agree. That isn't being retarded. You failed to answer the question. How is what he said idiotic?
2. God forgives evil people. Therefor there is no reason to be a good person so long as you honestly repent. You can do whatever you want for however long you want and as long as you feel truly sorry for it, God will forgive you so long as you believe.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo 1. Because I pointed out his lapse in logic.
2. You're so dumb it's infuriating. If you rape kill and steal thinking that you'll just "honestly repent" you aren't a good person, and won't be TRULY SORRY in the end. You can't just decide that you'll be truly sorry all of a sudden in order to take advantage of God, whom if exists would be an all knowing all seeing spiritual/energetic entity.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll 1) Calling someone an idiot is not pointing out a lapse in logic, he didn't have one therefor you are lying to me or wish to save face. Given that you insult me rather than answer, I find you calling anyone an idiot humorous at best.
2) Insult and don't actually bring up a valid argument, good job. People can do wrong and know that if they repent and believe they were wrong, that is all the is required so long as you believe.
darththeo 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Now, I am going to ask you, to lay off the insults or I will treat you as you deserve. I ask you to explain yourself and you have failed to make a decent attempt to do so. And btw, not using logic =/= an idiot, those two things are different and if you haven't learn that, maybe you need to educate yourself.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo 1. Having such pitiful logic does make you an idiot, but I guess that an idiot like you wouldn't be able to see that due to your pitiful logic.
2. You asked me to lay off the insults, insulted me, and never countered any of my statements.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll 1. That is pitiful logic ... even the most intelligent people can say or do things idiotically.
2. I am not trying to counter your statement, I am trying to get you to explain your statement. You made a claim, I am asking for your support. I don't need to show that silent is not an idiot, I have claimed nothing. This argument is about your defense of your statement, and you failed to support it.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo 1. How is that pitiful logic? Explain that to me please.
2. I already explained my claim. Based on his horrendous lapse in logic I concluded that he was an idiot.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll 1) Intelligent people, you know people who are not IDIOTS, can say idiotic things and use pitiful logic. That is why your logic is pitiful. Just because what is said was idiotic, doesn't make the person an idiot.
2) Calling something a lapse in logic doesn't make it one. Therefor, since there is no evidence there was a lapse in logic, it isn't logical to assume it was ... still haven't explained your claim.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo Wow, okay you obviously have the logic of a 5th grader. I'm done arguing. Come talk to me in 10 years when that pathetic lump of gray matter you call your brain learns to work itself properly.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Considering, you were the first to fling insults and never actually made a point, I don't see how my brain is the one that is pathetic ... perhaps you are a troll that needs education, hence your name.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo I'm the troll? You're the one throwing incorrect logic around acting all high and mighty.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Yes, for three reason:
1) I haven't used incorrect logic ... you don't like the logic therefor it is incorrect to you ... THAT, is incorrect logic. Christianity allows people to do HORRIBLE THINGS IN LIFE and still get the ultimate reward, that is a fact ... like it or not.
2) You never answered my original question, you used completely pitiful excuse for logic and think you haven't. .
3) When confronted, you insulted. You argue poorly.
darththeo 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Now, before you respond. Christianity allows people to live there life however they want and merely by believing that Jesus is their savior is enough. It never even clear on what is needed to considered to have "repented" for your sins. Nothing about what silentsouls said was idiotic by any stretch of the word ... YOU didn't like the logic that he had used. YOU can't even defend your statement with anything remotely logical. You are childish, You are a troll.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo R you kidding me they have to be good adn sutf or else they will go to hell. What the fuck are you talking about my logic is impeccable you just must be a fucking 3rd grader or something. Get off youtube and go back to Mario Kart fucking pussy. You're arguing with the likes of Aristotle here, boy. You better learn your fucking place.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Wrong, Christianity requires no works to get into heaven ... just faith. It is a faith based, as long as you believe Christ died for your sin, you are in. Your logic is far from impeccable, and if it was, it could stand on its own without your pathetic attempts to insult. I am not arguing with the likes of Aristotle here because you are no where near that caliber and if you think you are, you are a fool. Frankly, you failed and you can't handle that can you?
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo Just faith? Are you fucking kidding me? You must are by far the biggest waste of human intellect I have ever had the misfortune of encountering on Youtube. You said that my logic was impeccable because of my pathetic attempts to insult, but you just insulted me dumbass. Hypocrisy, thy name is darththeo. Go buy a 4th grade book on Christianity and come back when you have a basic understanding of it. I can't argue with somebody who is a fucking moron.
EducateTroll 1 month ago
@EducateTroll Funny, the only person who is being a moron is you. You are aware that the Bible advocates Genocide, Rape, and Murder ... so long as you do it in God's name. The God of the Bible created man KNOWING they would sin and turn against him and then punishes them for it. The only means of repentance is to confess your sins to God/Jesus as outlined in the Bible and accept Jesus as your savior ... that is the only "works" required. Be honest about your sins, that's it.
darththeo 1 month ago
@darththeo Also about your second argument with the whole creating humanity knowing that we would sin: First of all if there was a God, he would have created time, so he would not have a past or a future like we do, so that rules out the argument that is often paired with that one. Second of all, yes of course God "knows" that some of us will sin, but what would be the point of us all being robots and not earning our way into heaven? God wants us to freely choose to follow him.
EducateTroll 1 month ago