This is really to anyone who doubts Universal redemption. EVERY mans work will be tried. "If any mans WORKS be burned". Works will be burned not the person.We are all like gold to God. When He created man He said "it was good". But man has impurities that need to be burned out until it is fine purified gold. Now, "If any mans work be burned, he shall SUFFER LOSS, but he himself shall be saved". Suffer "LOSS", not suffer in an eternal fire without mercy.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.
You state " fearful having their part in the lake of fire speaks of UNBELIEVERS, of those who feared man over God".
Now, Tell me how you can instill a fear of eternal torment into someone Who is "unbelieving"? It doesnt work. The fear that some safe by is not the fear of some fabled eternal torture chamber, its the fear of God and his judgment, All of creation will be purified through this SYMBOLIC TEMPORARY FIRE. All things will have their day in this SYMBOLIC lake to PURIFY
No man can say for sure that the real Adolf Hitler had not died as a child and some Fallen Angel possessed the body of the dead, and appeared as an Anti Christ spirit, doing the Devil's work. Judas was taken over by the Devil, when he then betrayed Jesus and then hung himself to escape accountability, So Hitler shot himself to escape humanity. But was the spirit in the body of Hitler the same soul as God gave to the child Adolf ? Demonic Possession of the dead, " The Worm Dieth Not"
I think it is also important to note - that when Hiter is restored to God which only God knows how long that process will take.. he will be nothing like the monster we know from history. So in one sense Hitler never goes to heaven, and in another he does.
Even if he IS in heaven, it doesn't matter... When we're in Heaven, God creates a Glorified Body for us and we are purified of all negative things.. So... Does it matter?
Hitler will be part of the resurrection that is unto damnation, in contrast to the resurrection that is unto life. This guy has made the Gospel even more attractive than the original by revamping the most sobering texts of Scripture designed to instill fear and obedienc in the hearts of sinners.
Gee, I'd hate to be your neighbor. The Bible says, think on what is lovely. Pounder brings up the worst thoughts possible in the worst light probably using the worst translation. "Some save with fear." Ok, but here another verse: Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the GOODNESS of God leadeth thee to repentance? You keep majoring on the worst light, Pounder, I'll keep looking up to a God who is love, a love that NEVER FAILS!
Since when has fear ever saved anyone? For sinners, why should they be afraid of something they don't believe? What has the Christian world done to show the Athiests in this world truth? Since they don't believe, they don't fear. Now, how is God using these Christian fear tactics to draw these people unto him? It's absurd. God draws all men to him through LOVE, but Christianity has lost sight of THAT love. Christians do not understand THAT love.
In addition. Christians use fear in order to draw people to God yet the scriptures stat that even the fearful will have their part in the lake of fire. That would mean you have instilled in them the very thing that will send them to an "Eternal" fire. When will people realize that "forever, everlasting ,eternal and evermore" are false definitions ofr the words "aion" and "aionios"? These are periods of time as stretching forward or backward with an indefinite timeline.
Jude says, "Some save with fear." In other words, the warning of judgment to come can be an effective approach in motivating people unto faith and righteousness. Now the revelation text about the fearful having their part in the lake of fire speaks of unbelievers, of those who feared man over God, and refused to embrace Him because of their desire for human affirmation and praise. To use the latter passage in the manner you have done proves to me you have failed to do your homework.
"God so loved THE WORLD." I don't think God is interested these days in dividing up His family, He only has one and it's NOT made up of divisions like Gentiles and Jews, male of female, free or slave, good guys and bad guys. Anyone truly touched by the love of God realized they are no better than the worst human being. And if you haven't come to that realization yet, (and judging from your post, you haven't), one day you will. Til then, may the peace of Jesus visit you soon.
@tentmaker777 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, BUT WHOEVER DOES NOT BELIEVE STANDS CONDEMNED already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
The word condemned is krino, a variant of the word katakrino in Mark 16:16 is FALSELY translated damned. Fear filled translators put the worst meaning of words. It is also translated judged. God's judgments are righteous. You won't find the word damned in most translations anymore. The time will come when the word condemned will be translated into a better word. "When God's judgments are in the earth it WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS! NOT be damned to Hell. You need to study to show yourself approved
Could you (and you are in the image of God) take your children who reject you or commands you've given them or may not even know the commands, take them and torture them forever? Take a little time right now and ask yourself, would it be "righteous" for you to endlessly torture your children eternally? Jesus said LOVE YOUR ENEMIES even to the point of laying down your life for them. If God's love is like this for His enemies what is it like for His children? Hell is a man-made myth.
@tentmaker777 I agree, I am made in the image of God, am I righteous like God? No. I think it is righteous for him to send those who reject the truth to hell. Could I do it? No. Does that prove your point? No. Rather than asking what I would do, ask if its in God's nature to do such a thing. Did God command the Israelites to completely wipe out races of people, not even leaving the women and children alive? Yes. Do you think it was righteous of him to do so while the 10 commandments say not to?
God can kill like a doctor gives anesthetics for an operation. DEATH does not stop God's mercy even though you have been taught that it does. HE can make His enemies alive again and He will. Sodom will be given to Jerusalem as a daughter according to Exekiel chapter 16. Do you think everyone in the O.T. is going to endlessly burn because they didn't know the name of Jesus? Please, it's ok to engage your brains even though hellfire preachers may ask you to set it aside.
@tentmaker777 I was making a parallel of God being righteous in commanding His people to kill or even killing people Himself in reply to Jesus saying, "Love your enemies," being a reason God can't send people to Hell.
Jesus said, "You have heard it said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth..." Well where did one hear that from? The OLD testament given by angels. But Jesus said "A NEW commandment I give you." See, Jemwhipp, God has a plan for the salvation of the whole world. When you see the components of that large plan, the smaller pieces begin to make sense. But you can't see the larger blueprint, you'll misjudge the smaller pieces. Rise up higher, then you'll see God's awesome power!
A Blueprint for a building contains many sheets, each for different levels and aspects of the building. The Bibles of several ages and covenants, each serve their purposes and then they fade away. The Mosaic Law was fading away as Paul the apostles was commissioned to reveal the New Covenant. They all serve a purpose, but all ages come to an end, even the New Covenant period will come to an end. God's ultimate plan is to make a new creation man out of all who died in Adam. In adam all died...
I think my answer answered the question just fine. But I'm not going to get into an argument patterned after the Pharisees' kind of questions to trap rather than get at the truth. The Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world for the sin of the world. That's before Adam and Eve ate of the tree. If you can't see God's plan in that, then I really can't help you because you really don't want the truth. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." What a mighy God!
It might be more the other way around. :-) But you forget, God will change our hearts, BIG time. By the way, don't you think YOU might have a heart change from where you are today? I know I will. God's love, mercy, wisdom etc is too big for our puny minds and hearts. We will ALLLLL need new bodies to contain His goodness towards us.
Recently, I've been hearing that God saves all and have looked at scripture. Biggest proof is 1 timothy 2:1-6. Then people try to say that just because God desires all men to saved doesn't mean it will actually happen.
But Job says otherwise
Job 23:13 But He is unique, and who can make Him change? And whatever His soul desires, that He does
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Then they try to say "alll" doesn't really mean all. lol
If God loves everyone but doesn't save everyone, but lets them burn in hell for all eternity, then God clearly doesn't love everyone. If God doesn't love everyone, but only the elect, then God isn't love, as the scriptures say He is.
If Calvinism is true, then Jesus merely went through the motions, for His actions accomplished nothing, except to save those that God already planned to save anyway.
If Arminianism is true, then Jesus is weak & God's plan mostly fails.
God loves everyone. Calvinists understand that if God loves you, then He'll save you.
To believe that God actually created a literal lake of fire where unrepentant sinners will be roasted alive forever, is to believe that God is pure evil.
If He destroyed them, then He'd be just. If He saves everyone, then God is love & merciful & good & greater then any man.
All who believe in hell change their beliefs when a loved one dies unsaved.
The word HELL is found nowhere in the bible. It was translated from 4 different words & none of them mean hell. The lake of fire is found in Rev. If you see this as literal, then where is the sea of glass & the beast with 7 heads & 10 horns.
Clearly the lake of fire is symbolic & spiritual, as is the entire book of Rev., but nowhere is the lake of fire called hell. Rather death & hell (hades) are cast into it & destroyed. Of course, they didn't translated it hell there, did they? ; )
A little fact of history that you hell believers should learn about. The idea of hell & eternal torment came from surrounding pagan religions at the time. MOST christians in the first 3 centures believed in Universalism.
4 out of 6 of the first theological schools taught Universalism. 1 taught Annihilationism & 1 taught hell. That one (Carthage) used a Latin text.
The 4 used the Greek text (the original language).
It seems like everyone that comments that are opposed to "universalism" usually say that we also don't believe in hell, judgement, wrath, lol. It's preposterous.
@TheOkstate2012 What's also amazing is that not only do they believe that people will literally be burned alive forever, but that God loves them.
At least the Calvinists see how stupid that logic is.
But Calvinist logic is even more preposterous. God HATES everyone, but decided to love a few that He chose to save from this fate of being burned alive.
How wonderful of Him. How can anyone worship a God like that?
I was a thinker of Calvinism, and believed that God has Chosen some of us for heaven and Hell. Then I really thought about the absurdity of that. I don't think people understand what hell will actually be like.So then I started thinking that everyone in the world will get a choice to "repent". Also very absurd since it clearly teaches that you can't "choose" to follow since you are sinful. It left me empty, confused, and stranded.
@TheOkstate2012 Well, I'm not certain that we 'can't' choose, but regardless, salvation is ONLY through faith in Jesus, and God makes it perfectly clear that Jesus died for all & that God loves all and that one day everyone will confess that Jesus is Lord.
I'm picturing Atheists, in hell, confessing that Jesus is Lord & God saying 'too late'. Wow. That's a really nice God they worship, huh.
@Lightmane321 Another thing is all the Bible jargon that makes them sound completely arrogant. They ignore your quotes and questions and just slam you calling you a heretic. Telling you that satan has filled your heart and bunch of other nonsense. One guy has even said he will pray for these two guys.
One guy even said Hitler can't be in heaven since the last thing he did was sin (suicide)
I've actually read a book that said once you're in hell it's too late.
@TheOkstate2012 One reason they do that is because of this. They believe that hell is real, so they're convinced that Satan has deceived us by telling us that hell isn't real. We're believing the lie of the devil because Satan doesn't want us to know the truth about hell. See?
Then when we universalists die, we all go to hell and the devil will say.
Hah Hah. Fooled ya! and we'll be like 'oh no... why didn't I listen to those fundamentalists who said this was real'
@Vlaxerman343 Youtube's new format really is horrible.
Universal salvation isn't in the bible? Really? How do you know this? If it's not in the bible, then why do MANY people, who study the bible, believe in it?
Actually, Universal salvation is proclaimed throughout the bible. I challenge you to google an article called
"A Unique Proof for Universalism"
There, you will see MANY verses which CLEARLY PROCLAIM this to be the case.
@Lightmane321 HELL IS IN THE BIBLE, the verses that talk about salvaiton for everyone, is for everyone that wants salvation, and every time you think when Christ mentions hell he is just talking about gehennah or sheol those are are simply different translations and descrptions for as what hell is like, and if you don't think there is a hell after death then what on earht does a second death mean? Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 21:8
@Vlaxerman343 Everyone that WANTS Salvation? Wow. Now "that's" an interpretation I've never heard before. So if I "want" salvation, then God will save me, but if I don't "want" it (whatever that means) then God won't save me? WOW! Interesting kind of God you got there.
God: "Well... here it is (Salvation). If you want it, it's yours." (Is THAT what you mean?)
Please tell me what hell is, according to your understanding. I'm very curious.
@Vlaxerman343 Really? How interesting. But my question still stands.
So WHAT is hell? What happens to people who go there & how long are they there, etc.???
Regarding Psalm 9:10 (nice verse) but you're apparently not aware of Isaiah 65:1 and if you didn't see my other comment, check out 1 Tim 4:10 along with 1 Tim 2:4. Then of course there's John 12:32 & Romans 5:18, but according to you, this ONLY applies to those who "want" salvation, right? got it ; )
@Lightmane321 well if you really were Christian you probably would understand but considering you would rather take something off the internet saying you were saved than consulting the Bible you would have you answers
@Lightmane321 here's your answer for hell Matthew 13:41-43 Christ talks about hell to his disciples, Revelation 20:14 John talks about how death and the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire the grave being sheol or in Greek hades, James 3:6 james describes how sin is like a burning fire of hell itself, now onto salvation Romans 11:11 Paul tells about how the jews had to "claim it for themselves because of jealousy" Acts 28:28 also says a similar thing how they claimed it
@Vlaxerman343 James didn't say hell. He said Gehenna. Gehenna is not hell. Sorry. But thanks for not using the lame verses that most christians use.
I see how Matt 13:42 & 50, for that matter, would make you think that Jesus is speaking about a place called 'hell'.
I see you also recognize that Sheol/Hades is cast into the 'lake of fire', so they also are not hell. Neither is the lake of fire. This 'lake' is the fire that Jesus was speaking about. It's not hell. it's not eternal fire.
@Lightmane321 well maybe there isn't a hell, or at least there will be and poeple will be judged, on the day of judgement to see how they spent their time in parol to see if they still had repented and and adored God knowing hell would be the final alternative or those who would still reject God and be cast down on the day pf judgement maybe that is just how it is, but still you have to consider John 3:16 one of the most quoted verses in Biblical history
@Vlaxerman343 What's this? Am I actually speaking to an open-minded christian?
I'm impressed with your words. I don't deny that God will judge the world & that judgment begins with the house of God. I have no doubt that God will divide the just and the unjust, but are any of us just? No. Only Jesus is just. Only Jesus is righteous. Jesus will separate the wheat & the tares, but to what end?
Romans 11:32 "For God has committed them ALL to DISOBEDIENCE, that He might HAVE MERCY ON ALL"
@Lightmane321 yes but "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16 but would like to say how many people know John 3:17 and 18? "God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world,but to save the world through him" "there is no judgement against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one son"
@Lightmane321 try reading Mark 13:30 "I tell you the truth, this generation will not disappear before all these things take place. Heaven and Earth will disappear but my word will remains." and why this is in 1 john 3:1
@Vlaxerman343 What do these verses, in Mark 13 & 1 John 3, have to do with the fact that millions lived their life & never heard of Jesus. All who lived before Jesus lived & knew nothing of a Messiah. Even those who did, knew nothing of a Messiah who would die for their sins. Clearly Jesus own disciples knew nothing of this idea
Since you have to "believe in Jesus" to be saved, what happens to ALL the millions who NEVER HEARD of Jesus?
If Universalism isn't true, then what happens to them?
@Lightmane321 they specifically say that a new generation never heard of Christ because the old never told them, pretty much why Christ sent them all out into the world instead of having stay in one place
@Vlaxerman343 The 'old' never told them? Before Jesus, NO ONE knew to tell anyone anything.
Millions upon millions of people lived their life & died knowing NOTHING about Jesus, or of a Messiah who would die for their sins. This is still true today. Many die who never heard of Jesus.
So... what happens to these millions upon millions of people when they die? Are they saved? Are they eternally lost? Neither answer makes sense. So what then?
@Vlaxerman343 They BOTH make sense??? They're mutually exclusive. It's not possible that they BOTH make sense. On one hand, they're saved. On the other, they're lost. WHICH IS IT?
I think you're simply dodging this issue, which is why you said goodbye, for NEITHER make ANY sense.
Furthermore, why are you living a Godly life? Why don't you just have fun and satisfy your fleshly desires while on this earth? If what you say is true, after this life is over, you'll just say "Sorry God" with no consequences of your earthly actions. If that's the way it is, I'd live it up, die young, and get to heaven earlier. Why not? Heck, I would kill myself right now. Why deal with this earth when heaven is just a gunshot away? The best thing we could do for suffering people is kill them.
@undeadretard7 There are consequences to all bad seeds that are planted. But as to your question about having fun and and satisfying your fleshly desires. Wel if that is what your heart desires. Does it?
@SwordofManticorE No. That's not what my heart desires, that's what my FLESH desires. Again, if you're taking this seriously, why not just kill yourself? You'd be a pretty stupid person not to......
@undeadretard7 I was shocked (Part 1) I was shocked, confused, bewildered As I entered Heaven's door, Not by the beauty of it all, Nor the lights or its decor. But it was the folks in Heaven Who made me sputter and gasp-- The thieves, the liars, the sinners, The alcoholics and the trash.
@tentmaker777 I was shocked (part 2) There stood the kid from seventh grade Who swiped my lunch money twice. Next to him was my old neighbor Who never said anything nice. Bob, who I always thought Was rotting away in hell, Was sitting pretty on cloud nine, Looking incredibly well. I nudged Jesus, 'What's the deal? I would love to hear Your take. How'd all these sinners get up here? God must've made a mistake.
@tentmaker777 I was shocked (Part 3) 'And why is everyone so quiet, So somber - give me a clue.' 'Hush, child,' He said, 'they're all in shock. No one thought they'd be seeing you.' JUDGE NOT!! Remember...Just going to church doesn't make one a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes us be a car. Every saint has a PAST...Every sinner has a FUTURE! For further shocks visit the Tentmaker Ministries site or tentmaker777 youtube channel
@tentmaker777 I'm afraid I've missed your point. Of course 'going to church' doesn't make you Christian. I never said that was true. Where did these stories come from? I'm not judging anyone. That's God's job, again, I agree. But if God lets everyone into heaven, then He's not judging anyone either. Our job is to love as Christ loved, that's it. If people follow what you're teaching, they're going to live according to the flesh, which is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
You state: If people follow what you're teaching, they're going to live according to the flesh, (end quote)
You see, this proves you are under law and not grace or else you wouldn't say such a thing. You can't understand why a person would live a righteous life out of LOVE for God and fellow man. You need a stick, you need a law, you need a punishment. You need wrath. Well, got news for you. Love works better but it takes longer...and God has all the time in the world.
@tentmaker777 Man, you really don't get it, do you. This is isn't about me. No, I am not under the law. Yes, I understand that love works better. But what about the people that don't? What about the people who ARE still 'under the law', who are still searching for answers? If you convince them that Hell doesn't exist, I promise you they will live according to their flesh. Do you realize how dangerous that is? What about the verses I posted, like the one in Daniel? Look up Daniel12: 2.
Gee, our Christian nation has more people in prison for living according to the flesh than any country. Your threats of Hell have never prevented people from indulging in sin. Christians just pick different sins like backbiting, slander, gossip, self-righteousness, judging... you know...your kind of sins. Now what kind of sins and sinners did Jesus pick on...street sinners? Or your kind...that is...religious type? Hmmmm???? :-)
@tentmaker777 You have the nerve to call me judgmental and self righteous and then you send me a comment like that?! You have no idea how I treat 'types' of sinners! I've not judged anyone! However, I have a pretty good idea of how you treat people you don't like. All you're doing is attacking me because I've made good points that don't know what do with. If you can't discuss like a human being, don't bother posting videos like this. You, sir, are the self righteous, judgmental hypocrite.
@tentmaker777 Its not me that's judging, its God. I'm not being judgmental, God is. Do you realize what you're doing? You're taking your beliefs and making them fit the Bible instead of letting the Bible form your beliefs. That is so dangerous. On top of that, you're practically screaming "I'm a hypocrite" because you clearly aren't following what the Bible says. You're making wild, vague accusations about me with nothing to back it up. You're making this up out of thin air.
If every person, regardless of actions or beliefs, make it to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? That would be a pretty stupid God to sacrifice his only, beloved Son if there were some other way into heaven. That goes against everything that God is, it goes against the very nature of God. He doesn't want anyone to suffer, and He's extremely logical. But, apparently, He made his Son suffer for no reason whatsoever. Ridiculous.
You're doing the exact thing that you claim that I'm doing. You assume that I tell everyone they're going to go to Hell and that I see them as lesser people because they don't believe what I believe. You have nothing to base that belief on. However, I can claim the same thing of you (minus the Hell part) because of the way you've treated me. This goes against everything the Bible teaches. You're probably the most hypocritical person I've ever had contact with, honestly This has been shocking.
Furthermore, why are you living a Godly life? Why don't you just have fun and satisfy your fleshly desires while on this earth? If what you say is true, after this life is over, you'll just say "Sorry God" with no consequences of your earthly actions. If that's the way it is, I'd live it up, die young, and get to heaven earlier. Why not? Heck, I would kill myself right now. Why deal with this earth when heaven is just a gunshot away? The best thing we could do for suffering people is kill them
YOu reveal your heart, don't you? You serve God out of fear, not love. So why don't you go to your God and wrestle with Him about that. "Perfect love casts out fear."
Sorry, but how on earth could you possibly know whether I serve God out of love or fear? Even if I did serve Him out of fear, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The verse you quoted is in reference to faith. If I have faith in God, I won't fear men or their schemes to destroy me, because I know that God is on my side.
It's obvious in your answers and the way you judge others. As to the "fear of God being the beginning of wisdom" I believe that refers to an OLD covenant relationship with God, a covenant which is abolished? As to God being on your side, I believe the Pharisees, Sadducees, lawyers and scribes were absolutely convinced God was on their side. Jesus said their father was the devil. Pride is a huge blinding agent.
If every person, regardless of actions or beliefs, make it to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? That would be a pretty stupid God to sacrifice his only, beloved Son if there were some other way into heaven. That goes against everything that God is, it goes against the very nature of God. He doesn't want anyone to suffer, and He's extremely logical. But, apparently, He made his Son suffer for no reason whatsoever. Ridiculous.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying For even as, through the disobedience of the one man [Adam], the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One [Christ], the many shall be constituted just" (Rom. 5:18-19).
The wages of sin is DEATH, not living forevever being endlessly tortured. Jesus DIED to overcome DEATH. He died to give LIFE to all those asleep in their graves AND the death on earth walking around like yourself. Remember when Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their own dead?" Wake up, sleeper.
What I dont understand is why do ppl concern themselves with Hitler when the most terrible sinner who ever lived was the apostle Paul. Paul openly admitted this.
That's a good point although Paul was probably trying to be a bit melodramatic when he said that. Nevertheless, one of the problems we have in seeing everyone saved is that we think we are better than others and want to see others punished for the very same thing we expect to be pardoned for. Double standards, hypocrisy which God is not too fond of.
Who said there is no repentance after death. And who said that "judgment" was eternal damnation? What if God's judgment was salvation for everyone because NO ONE DESERVED IT?! If it is a gift for you why can't it be a gift for everyone. After all, when was the lamb slain? From the foundation of the world. And who was the lamb slain for? "The sin of the world." I believe "the world" includes everyone. Yes?
This makes no sense to me. I like to think there is a just God. I would like to see justice this side of eternity. What is the point of justice after the damage is done and it is too late to rectify? More importantly, what could be just about forgiveness without repentance and restitution? If this were the case, why not forgive the devil and let him win?
What you call justice and what God calls jusice may be two entirely different things. The Bible says "Mercy shall triumph over judgment." James 2:13. What do you what, a changed heart or a pound of flesh? Do you want healing? Or revenge. Most Christians want revenge and don't realize that spirit is contrary to God's spirit. So what's in your heart?
@tentmaker777 Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Eternal Damnation types are noted for taking Scriptures out of context to make them say the opposite of their meanings. For example, the rest the verse you quoted says, "Therefore, 'if you enemy hungers, feed him, if he thirsts give him drink, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire on his head. Do NOT be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good." THAT is how God overcomes His enemies. Visit the tentmaker site and keyword "The wrath of man" and learn of God's ways versus man
So you'd rather shame the cross and Jesus and say it wasn't sufficient to undo what Adam did. Grace does NOT abound more than sin according to you. Jesus is an utter failure according to your thinking. I'd rather believe He is the "Savior of the world" than believe He lost most of it. Which would Satan prefer you believe? :-)
I'd rather believe what God and the Bible tells me. That those who die in their sins will perish.
Universalists seek to twist and pervert the scripture to suit their humanistic view of how God should act. Only doctrine which brings one to Jesus and saves from sin is true; all else is false and ruinous.
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1Jn:2:4
Ezek:18:4: "..the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Universalists seek to BELIEVE in the Great promises in the Bible. Hellfire damnationists seek to enlarge their Hell. I believe: 1 Tim. 4:9-11, a wonderful statement. You obviously don't. Why? Because you have no faith to believe. You're an unbeliever. :-)
Understand, if God does forgive and restore all mankind, your time here on earth was totally fruitless because you spent your entire time blaspheming Him, telling the world He was the worst kind of monster, worse than all the evil men like Hitler combined because they only killed their victims. But you say God will torture His enemies forever and ever. What a horrible epitaph for you. Here lies a man who spent his life blaspheming God thinking he was doing right. Now that;s ignorant
You are so spiritually blind. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the wicked inherit the kingdom of God. Nor does it say God repents of his judgment of the wicked or that it is anything other than final and fixed.That is why we have to repent and accept Jesus in THIS life.
You are the one judging God.,you are questioning His authority and putting Him on trial, instead of seeing yourself as the one who will be judged.
The Bible says that Fear of the Lord, is the beginning of wisdom
Ahhh, Indigohue, aren't you "wicked?" Are you righteous apart from the grace of God? If you ARE righteous, how did it happen? Why are you glorying in your righteousness considering "There is NONE righteous, nay, not one." But I suppose that excludes you and foreverinchrist1.
That verse means we are all born in sin,we are all unrighteous, but through acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Saviour AND repentance of our sins we are saved.
Remember it says in Cor 1 6-7 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
One of the evil fruits of a False Teacher is that they teach that Christians can have willful or known sin in their life and still go to heaven.
One of the evil fruits of a false teacher is condemning others for the same things they do themselves EVEN AS CHRISTIANS. I bet your closet is presently FULL of "willful or known sin" and yet you still tell us that YOU are going to heaven. Jesus would call this hypocrisy, wouldn't He? Now what does jesus say about hypocrites? Read Matthew 23. It probably speaks of you, doesn't it?
I trust in Jesus and do not willfully sin.. According to your unbiblical doctrine even evil, sadistic, God hating despots like Hitler will eventually be sitting on the right hand side of God.
The fallen man recoils from the horrifying fact of eternal punishment, so he fabricates his own truth according to what HE believes is justice.
You are not preaching to save from sin or bring people to Jesus, but just to convert others to the humanistic religion of Universalism.
Salvation is by grace, it is a gift, not of works. Your comments make it plain that you trust in your own righteousness or else you would never say the things you say about Hitler. Have you ever read about Hitler's childhood? Of any of the childhoods of the worlds despots? You'll find they almost all have a common background. And they all need the same grace you appropriate for yourself. You are a crooked businessman using double standards my friend. You are not wise.
I never said salvation was by works, not grace. But if after a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour they were to continue to willfully sin that would make them nothing more than a big, fat hypocrite and it would be a sham salvation.
It is plain you have sympathy with evil.Loads of people have tough childhoods, we don't all grow up to murder millions of innocent children in gas chambers.You've fallen for Satan's seducing lie, that there is no hell ,no need to fear God.
You are proud and self-righteous and nothing but a big fall is going to humble you enough to make you see that the condemnation you are peddling is the evil you see in others. You are projecting on others and God the evil in your OWN heart. There isn't a nickles worth of difference between your evil and the evil of a man like Hilter. The wages of sin is DEATH, it doesn't matter how many, death is death. Period.
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’
Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and WILL NOT AT ALL acquit the WICKED.
One person's "darkness" is another person's light. If the LIGHT IN YOU is darkness, how gross the darkness! God is love and nothing is impossible to this love. Yet your "gospel" consigns the vast majority of mankind to an eternal garbage heap. And you say I'm in complete darkness? What a hideous gross thought and your mind has been swallowed up by it. May the Lord of Grace give you eyes to see all His glory, then you wouldn't say such shameful things about our Savior and Lord.
@Indigohue yes, but you will be judged by fire, just like everyone is! That is scriptural. According to YOUR skewed view of God, the fate of someone in some obscure country who has never even heard of the Jesus, let alone "accepted" him as savior (but otherwise lived a good life and never hurt anyone), a mass murderer, and a child molester all have the same fate, ETERNAL TORTURE in fire! You idolize eternal hell!
@Indigohue You believe that you have to "accept" Jesus into your heart before you die or burn in hell for eternity, therefore you DO believe that "salvation is by works" Duh! And where in the world do you get that anyone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Saviour automatically stops sinning?!
I notice with nearly all Universalists that their arguments are so paper thin that they resort to insults to try and get people to conform to their false interpretation of the Bible. Belief in Jesus IS necessary to be saved, works are evidence of our faith.
If you were truly saved you would no longer be gravitating towards sin. Jesus said "By your fruits shall ye be known".
@Indigohue: show SCRIPTURAL evidence that faith is by OUR works, and not God giving it to us, without taking verses out of context like all you eternal hell believers do. You can't! Show scriptural evidence that man has a freewill. You can't. YOUR interpretation of the bible is FALSE, so unless you can debate me with anything other than your inane babbling, don't respond to me anymore! And how dare you judge whether I'm saved or not! Read the bible about judging others!
The lake of fire is the second death, that is the death of death which brings life. It is not to “torment” things but to “test” them. That is the true meaning of basanos. And it is not “forever and ever” but for the ages of the ages. That is the true Greek. The Bible speaks of the “restoration of all things” Acts. 3:21. The Lake of Fire purifies with fire and brimstone. There's much more on Scholars Corner at the Tentmaker Site.
@tentmaker777 Your theology makes no sense at all. Jesus said that: Not everyone that saith Lord,Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in Heaven (Mt.7:29 KJV). He goes further to say that: Then He will say to those on His left hand, 'Depart from me, you cured, into (Gr. Aionios) eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Nestle-Aland Greek-English N.T.). this fire has to do with punishment, is not temporary, but final
You are sending me messages in the inbox and I don't see a way to answer them in yahoo. Don't send me emails. Make your posts here in pubic so people can see your insanity in plain site. Tell the people who read here that you think God only selects choice people like yourself to go to heaven while He hates the rest of mankind and has predetermined to torture them in ways that would make Hitler look like a saint. May you be delivered from your insanity....soon.
@tentmaker777 What ever your point is, it's not working! You seem to think people are interested in your insults. It show just what kind of person you really are. Why would you call me insane I don't know. But you are wrestling with Holy Ghost and not me. I pray for you with love in my heart, that He will open your eyes, to be able to see and understand His word. That is something you need. your folly and hypocrisy in the Word shows. The only conclusions you come to, is to insult me.
Well, when I got delivered from that demonic doctrine of a God who will send most of mankind to eternal tortures, I see then that I was insane to believe the nonsense I was taught in traditional church. Here's an email I got this week from a former hell believer: I can't believe I ever believed God wasn't going to save everyone. That's such blasphemy it feels great to repent and get right with Him. " When you get your right mind, YOU too will see how insanve you presently are
@tentmaker777 I won't waste anymore time trying to give the truth. You are spiriturally dead. The only thing you have done is allow the devil to deceive to into thinking that it's alright to live anyway you want, God will save you anyway.
John make this statement against you! He said, If they were of us they would have continued with us (1 Jn.2:19). You were never saved then, and you are not saved now. I wipe the dust off my feet, You condemn yourself.
@foreverinchrist1 I get really tired of hearing eternal heller Christians like yourself say stupid things like, "God will save you anyway, live like you want! blah blah blah" How about this point of view: eternal hell believers like yourself hide under the guise of "I can live like I want, treat people like crap who don't believe exactly like I do because I accepted Jesus as my savior, therefore I get a free pass to heaven". You fork-tongued, wolf in sheep's clothing hypocrite!
@tentmaker777 So we know that Aionios Mean what it mean's, and that is eterna (forever). The next word is (Gr. puros) fire. Is it a cleansing fire or a fire of retributive judgment? We must be consistent with rightly dividing the Word of truth. This is the same fire that Jesus talks about in Mt.25:41. Notice if you will sir, the goats on His left were cast into everlasting fire to be punished eternally forever. It is not the same as in Act 3:21. It's meaning is different.
On the tentmaker site, there are several articles dealing with fire in the Bible. One is on the "Lake of fire" by J. Preston Eby. Another one, I wrote. God IS a consuming fire. And when your FEAR of fire is done away with, you will be comfortable in God's fire. But perfect love casts out fear. Obiously, the theologiy you have swallowed has filled you with it. Please go to the tentmaker site and read "fire in the Bible" and J Preston Eby's article on the Lake of fire.
@tentmaker777 Your idea of redemption is totally wrong. That is the problem with your isogesis. Just by the mere fact that all will not make it into the Kingdom of God should change your view. But as Scripture teaches, Salvation is only for the elect (Jn 6:65; Eph 1:4,5). Goats won't make it in, unless Jesus is a great lier!
Oh, a Calvinist whose heart is like this: "“At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness." Or "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. What rot! What a disgrace to God
@tentmaker777 I am not a Calvinist sir, I base my belief totally on the Scripture. If Calvin agrees with me so be it. The truth shall make you free. You say what I believe is a disgrace before God, wow! It's funny, if not sad that you reject the very word's of Jesus Himself. I only quoted His word's. you reject them. The shame is on you! that my friend is very sad!!!.
I believe the words of Jesus when He says, "And I, if I am lifted from the earth will draw (drag in greek) all mankind unto Myself." John 12:32 I think that is a powerful promise and statement of fact. I have great enough faith to believe what you say is imposssible. I know NOTHING is impossible with God and His love NEVER fails. The love of your puny god can scarcely save a handful of "elect" chosen frozen.
@tentmaker777 No disrespect sir but I don't need to go to some cite to here someone try in tell me about the Greek language. I studied Greek and I know that greek word meanings are not the same as English meanings. To understand any word function in a text you have to understand it's context that it is written in. The Gr word "pur" has many meanings. Context will tell you just what the writer ment by the use of the word in it's context.
@tentmaker777 Your idea that God is not fair if He punish all those who reject Him, makes no sense. God owns no one mercy or grace. We all deserve the judgement of God against us for the wickedness we have done. So you sound foolish with your universalism that will lead you to total destruction. If anything we who are called according to His purpose are the blessed one's. He chooses not to give us our just reward for our wickedness, but gave us His mercy and grace because of His good pleasure.
Is it "fair" to consign most of mankind to a place of everlasting tortures? Is it "fair" to send a little child to eternal damnation simply for being born? Is that your sense of justice? Because THAT is the traditional teaching of the church for hundreds of years. God's sense of justice is so much higher than yours that you ought to be ashamed of yourself and keep your silly mouth shut. Please, don't speak of justice to me. You haven't even a close clue to what it is.
@tentmaker777 Justice? whom! We all deserve God's Justice. God doesn't owe us anything but justice. So where do you get the idea that God owes you mercy and grace? What makes you so special that you are different then the rest of us. The fact is sir, It was God who dicided to elect His people before they were even born, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Having predestinated us . . . according to the good pleasure of His "WILL" (Eph.1:4,5). I think that's God's will.
Here is justice: Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. and again: Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALLLL in unbelief that He might....
@tentmaker777 The bottom line is my friend, if they don't accept Jesus it is fruitless to believe anyone will be eternally saved. Once you die and never been born again, it will be to late. So if one never desires to come to Jesus, but rather enjoy the pleasures of this world, it is conclusive that they are not one of the elect. Notice what Jesus said to them who cry out to Him and think they deserve to enter His Kingdom. Depart from me, I never knew you.
Do you see how contradictory your mind thinks? If Jesus is indeed the savior of all, then He would be MOST fruitful. It is YOU who turn the fruitful Jesus into a dead plant bearing very little life. I understand all does not mean all in some places. I understand figures of speech. But you reject when the word all plainly means all due to your pathetic interpretation of God’s nature and character. You’ve made God to be worse than yourself, an absolute hypocrite.
@tentmaker777 Contradictory? The more foolish you talk, the foolish you sound! I teach sir that Jesus only die for the elect and nothing else. That is why He isn't a failure, That it the purpose of elect (Ro.9:11). any other way would be a failure. If salvation depend's on man, then that my friend would be chance. God in His sovereign will decrees something, and it must come to pass. So in election all who are chosen will be saved forever. This is plainly Scripture.
Well, my "elect" friend, if Heaven is to be populated by egotists such as your self, it would be a pretty miserable place to abide in. When Jesus walked this earth, he called people like you snakes and whitewashed tombs and ate with street sinners, those who the "chosen people" considered scum. I've taken the place of the pharisee and are too blind to see it. Pride certainly makes one proud, and Calvinists are among the most proud in the world. You, sir, are a Calvinist, yuck
@tentmaker777 Calling me name's only show you stupidy. If you think heaven will be a miserable place because sinner's won't be allowed in, you're mistaken!
The only pride I see is you and your isogesis. To believe what you believe, I mite as well wait until I die and get ready for the firer( purging). where I can get clean and make it in. I can live anyway I want! God love me and it's ok with Him. I don't need Jesus, The lake of fire will take care of that.. "lol" that is stupid and dumb.
Duh, it is YOU who say only those who God "elects" will be saved. So, according to YOUR own theology, YOU can do what you want and still go to heaven because you are saved by grace and not by works. And now your contradict yourself. See folks, I said he was insane and he just keeps proving it.
@tentmaker777 What ever you think! But there is no contradicttion in grace alone. You believe Hitler is saved! Now that's stupid! Only the elect are called to live a life pleasing to God (Eph.1:4,5; Ro.6:1,2; 1 Jn.3:9). Hitler hated Jews, and anyone else who rejected his idiology. If he was an elected one, he would have never done the things he did (Jn.8:47). He was never saved!
Don't twist what I have said, God's people don't live a sinful life (Ro.6:1,2).
Oh, so only good people are called to be elect? I'm sure a lot of Calvinists are now blushing due to your ignorance of Sovereignty, Predestination and election. Tell me about how "good" you have been your whole life so that God could find you "worthy" to be among the elect. Please do tell.
@tentmaker777 Let's see! Jesus said that He lay down His life for His sheep! (Jn.10:15b). Why not the whole world? Well, He answered that question. He said you believe not , because you are not my sheep (Jn.10:26). Was Jesus teaching a universal salvation? No! Only His elect are His sheep. So we see He did not die for the whole world. Not only this, but He only pray's for His sheep and not the world (Jn.17:9). So you call me a hypocrite, That is a joke. If there is a hypocrite it is you.
@foreverinchrist1 Mankind reject's him, if God didn't elect anyone no one would be saved. Man doesn't want God, they only want the benefit's that he offer's. They don't want to serve Him. That's why so many like what you teach sir. They want the benefit's but not God. Sorry, God doesn't work that way. You either want to live holy and without blame before him in love (Eph.1:4b) or you don't. God's grace is given to the elect only (Jn.6:65).
@tentmaker777 I think it's pretty ironic that eternal hell believers bring up brimstone, like it's something caustic, to add to the pain of eternal flames. In reality it is a PURIFIER!
third view: yea, but maybe 1.34598 x 10 ^ 9999999999999999 years later?
GladeSwope 3 months ago
@peterpulpitpounder11
This is really to anyone who doubts Universal redemption. EVERY mans work will be tried. "If any mans WORKS be burned". Works will be burned not the person.We are all like gold to God. When He created man He said "it was good". But man has impurities that need to be burned out until it is fine purified gold. Now, "If any mans work be burned, he shall SUFFER LOSS, but he himself shall be saved". Suffer "LOSS", not suffer in an eternal fire without mercy.
signsix 3 months ago
@peterpulpitpounder11
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.
signsix 3 months ago
@peterpulpitpounder
You state " fearful having their part in the lake of fire speaks of UNBELIEVERS, of those who feared man over God".
Now, Tell me how you can instill a fear of eternal torment into someone Who is "unbelieving"? It doesnt work. The fear that some safe by is not the fear of some fabled eternal torture chamber, its the fear of God and his judgment, All of creation will be purified through this SYMBOLIC TEMPORARY FIRE. All things will have their day in this SYMBOLIC lake to PURIFY
signsix 3 months ago
No man can say for sure that the real Adolf Hitler had not died as a child and some Fallen Angel possessed the body of the dead, and appeared as an Anti Christ spirit, doing the Devil's work. Judas was taken over by the Devil, when he then betrayed Jesus and then hung himself to escape accountability, So Hitler shot himself to escape humanity. But was the spirit in the body of Hitler the same soul as God gave to the child Adolf ? Demonic Possession of the dead, " The Worm Dieth Not"
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
I think it is also important to note - that when Hiter is restored to God which only God knows how long that process will take.. he will be nothing like the monster we know from history. So in one sense Hitler never goes to heaven, and in another he does.
ProdigalSon222 4 months ago
well said
ProdigalSon222 4 months ago
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HELL IS REAL. View my Channel to watch a video.
SupportFreedom1 8 months ago
Even if he IS in heaven, it doesn't matter... When we're in Heaven, God creates a Glorified Body for us and we are purified of all negative things.. So... Does it matter?
DescentFromHeaven 8 months ago 3
Hitler will be part of the resurrection that is unto damnation, in contrast to the resurrection that is unto life. This guy has made the Gospel even more attractive than the original by revamping the most sobering texts of Scripture designed to instill fear and obedienc in the hearts of sinners.
Jude tell us, "Some save with fear."
peterpulpitpounder 11 months ago
Gee, I'd hate to be your neighbor. The Bible says, think on what is lovely. Pounder brings up the worst thoughts possible in the worst light probably using the worst translation. "Some save with fear." Ok, but here another verse: Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the GOODNESS of God leadeth thee to repentance? You keep majoring on the worst light, Pounder, I'll keep looking up to a God who is love, a love that NEVER FAILS!
tentmaker777 11 months ago 3
@peterpulpitpounder
Since when has fear ever saved anyone? For sinners, why should they be afraid of something they don't believe? What has the Christian world done to show the Athiests in this world truth? Since they don't believe, they don't fear. Now, how is God using these Christian fear tactics to draw these people unto him? It's absurd. God draws all men to him through LOVE, but Christianity has lost sight of THAT love. Christians do not understand THAT love.
signsix 3 months ago
@peterpulpitpounder
In addition. Christians use fear in order to draw people to God yet the scriptures stat that even the fearful will have their part in the lake of fire. That would mean you have instilled in them the very thing that will send them to an "Eternal" fire. When will people realize that "forever, everlasting ,eternal and evermore" are false definitions ofr the words "aion" and "aionios"? These are periods of time as stretching forward or backward with an indefinite timeline.
signsix 3 months ago
@signsix
Jude says, "Some save with fear." In other words, the warning of judgment to come can be an effective approach in motivating people unto faith and righteousness. Now the revelation text about the fearful having their part in the lake of fire speaks of unbelievers, of those who feared man over God, and refused to embrace Him because of their desire for human affirmation and praise. To use the latter passage in the manner you have done proves to me you have failed to do your homework.
peterpulpitpounder 3 months ago
Hitler is in heaven. the jews are in a place similar to where 6 million of them burned
DeutschlandSiegHeil 11 months ago
"God so loved THE WORLD." I don't think God is interested these days in dividing up His family, He only has one and it's NOT made up of divisions like Gentiles and Jews, male of female, free or slave, good guys and bad guys. Anyone truly touched by the love of God realized they are no better than the worst human being. And if you haven't come to that realization yet, (and judging from your post, you haven't), one day you will. Til then, may the peace of Jesus visit you soon.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, BUT WHOEVER DOES NOT BELIEVE STANDS CONDEMNED already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
The word condemned is krino, a variant of the word katakrino in Mark 16:16 is FALSELY translated damned. Fear filled translators put the worst meaning of words. It is also translated judged. God's judgments are righteous. You won't find the word damned in most translations anymore. The time will come when the word condemned will be translated into a better word. "When God's judgments are in the earth it WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS! NOT be damned to Hell. You need to study to show yourself approved
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 How is God's judgement not righteous if he sends someone to hell?
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
Could you (and you are in the image of God) take your children who reject you or commands you've given them or may not even know the commands, take them and torture them forever? Take a little time right now and ask yourself, would it be "righteous" for you to endlessly torture your children eternally? Jesus said LOVE YOUR ENEMIES even to the point of laying down your life for them. If God's love is like this for His enemies what is it like for His children? Hell is a man-made myth.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 I agree, I am made in the image of God, am I righteous like God? No. I think it is righteous for him to send those who reject the truth to hell. Could I do it? No. Does that prove your point? No. Rather than asking what I would do, ask if its in God's nature to do such a thing. Did God command the Israelites to completely wipe out races of people, not even leaving the women and children alive? Yes. Do you think it was righteous of him to do so while the 10 commandments say not to?
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
God can kill like a doctor gives anesthetics for an operation. DEATH does not stop God's mercy even though you have been taught that it does. HE can make His enemies alive again and He will. Sodom will be given to Jerusalem as a daughter according to Exekiel chapter 16. Do you think everyone in the O.T. is going to endlessly burn because they didn't know the name of Jesus? Please, it's ok to engage your brains even though hellfire preachers may ask you to set it aside.
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 I was making a parallel of God being righteous in commanding His people to kill or even killing people Himself in reply to Jesus saying, "Love your enemies," being a reason God can't send people to Hell.
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
Jesus said, "You have heard it said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth..." Well where did one hear that from? The OLD testament given by angels. But Jesus said "A NEW commandment I give you." See, Jemwhipp, God has a plan for the salvation of the whole world. When you see the components of that large plan, the smaller pieces begin to make sense. But you can't see the larger blueprint, you'll misjudge the smaller pieces. Rise up higher, then you'll see God's awesome power!
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 Are you saying that God's nature changes?
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
A Blueprint for a building contains many sheets, each for different levels and aspects of the building. The Bibles of several ages and covenants, each serve their purposes and then they fade away. The Mosaic Law was fading away as Paul the apostles was commissioned to reveal the New Covenant. They all serve a purpose, but all ages come to an end, even the New Covenant period will come to an end. God's ultimate plan is to make a new creation man out of all who died in Adam. In adam all died...
tentmaker777 11 months ago
@tentmaker777 Ok, but that doesn't answer the question. Is God constant or not?
Jemwhipp 11 months ago
I think my answer answered the question just fine. But I'm not going to get into an argument patterned after the Pharisees' kind of questions to trap rather than get at the truth. The Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world for the sin of the world. That's before Adam and Eve ate of the tree. If you can't see God's plan in that, then I really can't help you because you really don't want the truth. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." What a mighy God!
tentmaker777 11 months ago
It might be more the other way around. :-) But you forget, God will change our hearts, BIG time. By the way, don't you think YOU might have a heart change from where you are today? I know I will. God's love, mercy, wisdom etc is too big for our puny minds and hearts. We will ALLLLL need new bodies to contain His goodness towards us.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
Was he saved
extremeeXrement1 1 year ago
Oh. Here's a verse for you.
1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus is the Savior of ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY those who believe
you were saying...
Lightmane321 1 year ago
Recently, I've been hearing that God saves all and have looked at scripture. Biggest proof is 1 timothy 2:1-6. Then people try to say that just because God desires all men to saved doesn't mean it will actually happen.
But Job says otherwise
Job 23:13 But He is unique, and who can make Him change? And whatever His soul desires, that He does
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Then they try to say "alll" doesn't really mean all. lol
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
Comment removed
Lightmane321 1 year ago
I find it amazing how people debate with each other.
You're all a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites who judge everyone for judging you & claim that everyone is wrong to judge you, yet you judge them.
Now I'm doing it... DARN IT!!! LOL
Lightmane321 1 year ago
If God loves everyone but doesn't save everyone, but lets them burn in hell for all eternity, then God clearly doesn't love everyone. If God doesn't love everyone, but only the elect, then God isn't love, as the scriptures say He is.
If Calvinism is true, then Jesus merely went through the motions, for His actions accomplished nothing, except to save those that God already planned to save anyway.
If Arminianism is true, then Jesus is weak & God's plan mostly fails.
Arminians understand that
Lightmane321 1 year ago
God loves everyone. Calvinists understand that if God loves you, then He'll save you.
To believe that God actually created a literal lake of fire where unrepentant sinners will be roasted alive forever, is to believe that God is pure evil.
If He destroyed them, then He'd be just. If He saves everyone, then God is love & merciful & good & greater then any man.
All who believe in hell change their beliefs when a loved one dies unsaved.
They're in Gods hands, etc.
That's what we say.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
The word HELL is found nowhere in the bible. It was translated from 4 different words & none of them mean hell. The lake of fire is found in Rev. If you see this as literal, then where is the sea of glass & the beast with 7 heads & 10 horns.
Clearly the lake of fire is symbolic & spiritual, as is the entire book of Rev., but nowhere is the lake of fire called hell. Rather death & hell (hades) are cast into it & destroyed. Of course, they didn't translated it hell there, did they? ; )
Lightmane321 1 year ago
A little fact of history that you hell believers should learn about. The idea of hell & eternal torment came from surrounding pagan religions at the time. MOST christians in the first 3 centures believed in Universalism.
4 out of 6 of the first theological schools taught Universalism. 1 taught Annihilationism & 1 taught hell. That one (Carthage) used a Latin text.
The 4 used the Greek text (the original language).
The latin text was translated by 1 man - Jerome.
HELL came from this text.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
Of course, Salvation IS ONLY found through FAITH in Jesus.
That's the only way anyone will ever 'get saved'.
Fortunately, God has planned to save everyone.
For EVERY KNEE shall bow & EVERY TONGUE shall CONFESS that JESUS IS LORD, to the GLORY OF GOD.
If you CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.
One day, EVERYONE will believe. One day, everyone will be saved.
Pray for that day. Come Lord Jesus
Lightmane321 1 year ago
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Hey Gary. I just listened to this again. I find it amazing that anyone is taking issue with your words here. They were beautifully said.
If people don't think Hitler will ever be saved, then where did those Jews go, who he killed? Are they burning in hell too?
If a baby dies & it's not one of Gods elect, according to Calvinism, that baby goes to hell.
According to Arminianism, that baby goes to heaven.
If that's true then killing babies would be a good thing to do.
Does that make sense?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321
It seems like everyone that comments that are opposed to "universalism" usually say that we also don't believe in hell, judgement, wrath, lol. It's preposterous.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 What's also amazing is that not only do they believe that people will literally be burned alive forever, but that God loves them.
At least the Calvinists see how stupid that logic is.
But Calvinist logic is even more preposterous. God HATES everyone, but decided to love a few that He chose to save from this fate of being burned alive.
How wonderful of Him. How can anyone worship a God like that?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 Short version of my testimony
I was a thinker of Calvinism, and believed that God has Chosen some of us for heaven and Hell. Then I really thought about the absurdity of that. I don't think people understand what hell will actually be like.So then I started thinking that everyone in the world will get a choice to "repent". Also very absurd since it clearly teaches that you can't "choose" to follow since you are sinful. It left me empty, confused, and stranded.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 Well, I'm not certain that we 'can't' choose, but regardless, salvation is ONLY through faith in Jesus, and God makes it perfectly clear that Jesus died for all & that God loves all and that one day everyone will confess that Jesus is Lord.
I'm picturing Atheists, in hell, confessing that Jesus is Lord & God saying 'too late'. Wow. That's a really nice God they worship, huh.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 Another thing is all the Bible jargon that makes them sound completely arrogant. They ignore your quotes and questions and just slam you calling you a heretic. Telling you that satan has filled your heart and bunch of other nonsense. One guy has even said he will pray for these two guys.
One guy even said Hitler can't be in heaven since the last thing he did was sin (suicide)
I've actually read a book that said once you're in hell it's too late.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 One reason they do that is because of this. They believe that hell is real, so they're convinced that Satan has deceived us by telling us that hell isn't real. We're believing the lie of the devil because Satan doesn't want us to know the truth about hell. See?
Then when we universalists die, we all go to hell and the devil will say.
Hah Hah. Fooled ya! and we'll be like 'oh no... why didn't I listen to those fundamentalists who said this was real'
That's why.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 universal salvation isn't in the BIble, period
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 Youtube's new format really is horrible.
Universal salvation isn't in the bible? Really? How do you know this? If it's not in the bible, then why do MANY people, who study the bible, believe in it?
Actually, Universal salvation is proclaimed throughout the bible. I challenge you to google an article called
"A Unique Proof for Universalism"
There, you will see MANY verses which CLEARLY PROCLAIM this to be the case.
What's NOT in the bible is "HELL".
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 HELL IS IN THE BIBLE, the verses that talk about salvaiton for everyone, is for everyone that wants salvation, and every time you think when Christ mentions hell he is just talking about gehennah or sheol those are are simply different translations and descrptions for as what hell is like, and if you don't think there is a hell after death then what on earht does a second death mean? Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 21:8
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 Everyone that WANTS Salvation? Wow. Now "that's" an interpretation I've never heard before. So if I "want" salvation, then God will save me, but if I don't "want" it (whatever that means) then God won't save me? WOW! Interesting kind of God you got there.
God: "Well... here it is (Salvation). If you want it, it's yours." (Is THAT what you mean?)
Please tell me what hell is, according to your understanding. I'm very curious.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 everyone who wants asks for it, Hell is the place for those who rebel God or wicked or forget psalm 9:10
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 Really? How interesting. But my question still stands.
So WHAT is hell? What happens to people who go there & how long are they there, etc.???
Regarding Psalm 9:10 (nice verse) but you're apparently not aware of Isaiah 65:1 and if you didn't see my other comment, check out 1 Tim 4:10 along with 1 Tim 2:4. Then of course there's John 12:32 & Romans 5:18, but according to you, this ONLY applies to those who "want" salvation, right? got it ; )
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 well if you really were Christian you probably would understand but considering you would rather take something off the internet saying you were saved than consulting the Bible you would have you answers
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 Wow. Nice NON-ANSWER. I do study the bible. Maybe you should try it sometime.
Hell isn't mentioned. Not once. Jesus NEVER spoke about hell.
Paul, who brought the gospel to the gentiles, also never mentioned it.
The bible is clear. The wages of sin is death, not an eternity of being roasted alive in literal fire.
Gehenna is a valley on earth. Hades & Sheol are simply the grave. Try studying & not just believing what you're told, but check BOTH sides.
About my question?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 here's your answer for hell Matthew 13:41-43 Christ talks about hell to his disciples, Revelation 20:14 John talks about how death and the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire the grave being sheol or in Greek hades, James 3:6 james describes how sin is like a burning fire of hell itself, now onto salvation Romans 11:11 Paul tells about how the jews had to "claim it for themselves because of jealousy" Acts 28:28 also says a similar thing how they claimed it
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 James didn't say hell. He said Gehenna. Gehenna is not hell. Sorry. But thanks for not using the lame verses that most christians use.
I see how Matt 13:42 & 50, for that matter, would make you think that Jesus is speaking about a place called 'hell'.
I see you also recognize that Sheol/Hades is cast into the 'lake of fire', so they also are not hell. Neither is the lake of fire. This 'lake' is the fire that Jesus was speaking about. It's not hell. it's not eternal fire.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 well maybe there isn't a hell, or at least there will be and poeple will be judged, on the day of judgement to see how they spent their time in parol to see if they still had repented and and adored God knowing hell would be the final alternative or those who would still reject God and be cast down on the day pf judgement maybe that is just how it is, but still you have to consider John 3:16 one of the most quoted verses in Biblical history
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 What's this? Am I actually speaking to an open-minded christian?
I'm impressed with your words. I don't deny that God will judge the world & that judgment begins with the house of God. I have no doubt that God will divide the just and the unjust, but are any of us just? No. Only Jesus is just. Only Jesus is righteous. Jesus will separate the wheat & the tares, but to what end?
Romans 11:32 "For God has committed them ALL to DISOBEDIENCE, that He might HAVE MERCY ON ALL"
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 yes but "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16 but would like to say how many people know John 3:17 and 18? "God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world,but to save the world through him" "there is no judgement against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one son"
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 I agree with you. So tell me. What of the MILLIONS who NEVER HEARD of Jesus?
Romans 10:14b "And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have NOT HEARD?"
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 try reading Mark 13:30 "I tell you the truth, this generation will not disappear before all these things take place. Heaven and Earth will disappear but my word will remains." and why this is in 1 john 3:1
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 What do these verses, in Mark 13 & 1 John 3, have to do with the fact that millions lived their life & never heard of Jesus. All who lived before Jesus lived & knew nothing of a Messiah. Even those who did, knew nothing of a Messiah who would die for their sins. Clearly Jesus own disciples knew nothing of this idea
Since you have to "believe in Jesus" to be saved, what happens to ALL the millions who NEVER HEARD of Jesus?
If Universalism isn't true, then what happens to them?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 they specifically say that a new generation never heard of Christ because the old never told them, pretty much why Christ sent them all out into the world instead of having stay in one place
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 The 'old' never told them? Before Jesus, NO ONE knew to tell anyone anything.
Millions upon millions of people lived their life & died knowing NOTHING about Jesus, or of a Messiah who would die for their sins. This is still true today. Many die who never heard of Jesus.
So... what happens to these millions upon millions of people when they die? Are they saved? Are they eternally lost? Neither answer makes sense. So what then?
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 they both make complete sense, you just have a hard time accepting them,l goodbye
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Vlaxerman343 They BOTH make sense??? They're mutually exclusive. It's not possible that they BOTH make sense. On one hand, they're saved. On the other, they're lost. WHICH IS IT?
I think you're simply dodging this issue, which is why you said goodbye, for NEITHER make ANY sense.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 I sadi goodbye considering I knew I would go no where trying to explain it to you, unless you found out for yourself
Vlaxerman343 1 year ago
@Lightmane321
Seriously, people actually think human beings, will burn in complete hellfire forever? Even burning your finger is intolerable.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
Furthermore, why are you living a Godly life? Why don't you just have fun and satisfy your fleshly desires while on this earth? If what you say is true, after this life is over, you'll just say "Sorry God" with no consequences of your earthly actions. If that's the way it is, I'd live it up, die young, and get to heaven earlier. Why not? Heck, I would kill myself right now. Why deal with this earth when heaven is just a gunshot away? The best thing we could do for suffering people is kill them.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7 There are consequences to all bad seeds that are planted. But as to your question about having fun and and satisfying your fleshly desires. Wel if that is what your heart desires. Does it?
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE No. That's not what my heart desires, that's what my FLESH desires. Again, if you're taking this seriously, why not just kill yourself? You'd be a pretty stupid person not to......
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7 1 John 2:15 Never give your hearts to this world or to any of the things in it...
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say...
undeadretard7 1 year ago
tentmaker777 1 year ago
tentmaker777 1 year ago
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I'm afraid I've missed your point. Of course 'going to church' doesn't make you Christian. I never said that was true. Where did these stories come from? I'm not judging anyone. That's God's job, again, I agree. But if God lets everyone into heaven, then He's not judging anyone either. Our job is to love as Christ loved, that's it. If people follow what you're teaching, they're going to live according to the flesh, which is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
You state: If people follow what you're teaching, they're going to live according to the flesh, (end quote)
You see, this proves you are under law and not grace or else you wouldn't say such a thing. You can't understand why a person would live a righteous life out of LOVE for God and fellow man. You need a stick, you need a law, you need a punishment. You need wrath. Well, got news for you. Love works better but it takes longer...and God has all the time in the world.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Man, you really don't get it, do you. This is isn't about me. No, I am not under the law. Yes, I understand that love works better. But what about the people that don't? What about the people who ARE still 'under the law', who are still searching for answers? If you convince them that Hell doesn't exist, I promise you they will live according to their flesh. Do you realize how dangerous that is? What about the verses I posted, like the one in Daniel? Look up Daniel12: 2.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
Gee, our Christian nation has more people in prison for living according to the flesh than any country. Your threats of Hell have never prevented people from indulging in sin. Christians just pick different sins like backbiting, slander, gossip, self-righteousness, judging... you know...your kind of sins. Now what kind of sins and sinners did Jesus pick on...street sinners? Or your kind...that is...religious type? Hmmmm???? :-)
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 You have the nerve to call me judgmental and self righteous and then you send me a comment like that?! You have no idea how I treat 'types' of sinners! I've not judged anyone! However, I have a pretty good idea of how you treat people you don't like. All you're doing is attacking me because I've made good points that don't know what do with. If you can't discuss like a human being, don't bother posting videos like this. You, sir, are the self righteous, judgmental hypocrite.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
Hey, do you believe there is a Hell and there are many people who will go there? And you won't? Well, that's a pretty big judment. And you are wrong.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Its not me that's judging, its God. I'm not being judgmental, God is. Do you realize what you're doing? You're taking your beliefs and making them fit the Bible instead of letting the Bible form your beliefs. That is so dangerous. On top of that, you're practically screaming "I'm a hypocrite" because you clearly aren't following what the Bible says. You're making wild, vague accusations about me with nothing to back it up. You're making this up out of thin air.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
If every person, regardless of actions or beliefs, make it to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? That would be a pretty stupid God to sacrifice his only, beloved Son if there were some other way into heaven. That goes against everything that God is, it goes against the very nature of God. He doesn't want anyone to suffer, and He's extremely logical. But, apparently, He made his Son suffer for no reason whatsoever. Ridiculous.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
You're doing the exact thing that you claim that I'm doing. You assume that I tell everyone they're going to go to Hell and that I see them as lesser people because they don't believe what I believe. You have nothing to base that belief on. However, I can claim the same thing of you (minus the Hell part) because of the way you've treated me. This goes against everything the Bible teaches. You're probably the most hypocritical person I've ever had contact with, honestly This has been shocking.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
Furthermore, why are you living a Godly life? Why don't you just have fun and satisfy your fleshly desires while on this earth? If what you say is true, after this life is over, you'll just say "Sorry God" with no consequences of your earthly actions. If that's the way it is, I'd live it up, die young, and get to heaven earlier. Why not? Heck, I would kill myself right now. Why deal with this earth when heaven is just a gunshot away? The best thing we could do for suffering people is kill them
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@undeadretard7 HELL doesn't exist. Jesus NEVER spoke of it. Not once.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
YOu reveal your heart, don't you? You serve God out of fear, not love. So why don't you go to your God and wrestle with Him about that. "Perfect love casts out fear."
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 "you serve God out of fear, not love"
Sorry, but how on earth could you possibly know whether I serve God out of love or fear? Even if I did serve Him out of fear, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The verse you quoted is in reference to faith. If I have faith in God, I won't fear men or their schemes to destroy me, because I know that God is on my side.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
It's obvious in your answers and the way you judge others. As to the "fear of God being the beginning of wisdom" I believe that refers to an OLD covenant relationship with God, a covenant which is abolished? As to God being on your side, I believe the Pharisees, Sadducees, lawyers and scribes were absolutely convinced God was on their side. Jesus said their father was the devil. Pride is a huge blinding agent.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
If every person, regardless of actions or beliefs, make it to heaven, why did Jesus have to die? That would be a pretty stupid God to sacrifice his only, beloved Son if there were some other way into heaven. That goes against everything that God is, it goes against the very nature of God. He doesn't want anyone to suffer, and He's extremely logical. But, apparently, He made his Son suffer for no reason whatsoever. Ridiculous.
undeadretard7 1 year ago
@undeadretard7 It was because of Christ obidience.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying For even as, through the disobedience of the one man [Adam], the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One [Christ], the many shall be constituted just" (Rom. 5:18-19).
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@undeadretard7
The wages of sin is DEATH, not living forevever being endlessly tortured. Jesus DIED to overcome DEATH. He died to give LIFE to all those asleep in their graves AND the death on earth walking around like yourself. Remember when Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their own dead?" Wake up, sleeper.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
What I dont understand is why do ppl concern themselves with Hitler when the most terrible sinner who ever lived was the apostle Paul. Paul openly admitted this.
1 Tim 1:15
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE
That's a good point although Paul was probably trying to be a bit melodramatic when he said that. Nevertheless, one of the problems we have in seeing everyone saved is that we think we are better than others and want to see others punished for the very same thing we expect to be pardoned for. Double standards, hypocrisy which God is not too fond of.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
There is no repentance after we die. This a blatent LIE!!! We have to accept Jesus and repent NOW; after we die it is too late! He is deceiving you!
JesusTheOnlyWay777 1 year ago
@JesusTheOnlyWay777
Who said there is no repentance after death. And who said that "judgment" was eternal damnation? What if God's judgment was salvation for everyone because NO ONE DESERVED IT?! If it is a gift for you why can't it be a gift for everyone. After all, when was the lamb slain? From the foundation of the world. And who was the lamb slain for? "The sin of the world." I believe "the world" includes everyone. Yes?
tentmaker777 1 year ago 2
@JesusTheOnlyWay777 and your scriptural evidence on this?
redtygrr 1 year ago
@JesusTheOnlyWay777 AMEN!!!!!!!
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
This makes no sense to me. I like to think there is a just God. I would like to see justice this side of eternity. What is the point of justice after the damage is done and it is too late to rectify? More importantly, what could be just about forgiveness without repentance and restitution? If this were the case, why not forgive the devil and let him win?
draphaelc 1 year ago
@draphaelc
What you call justice and what God calls jusice may be two entirely different things. The Bible says "Mercy shall triumph over judgment." James 2:13. What do you what, a changed heart or a pound of flesh? Do you want healing? Or revenge. Most Christians want revenge and don't realize that spirit is contrary to God's spirit. So what's in your heart?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
draphaelc 1 year ago
@draphaelc
Eternal Damnation types are noted for taking Scriptures out of context to make them say the opposite of their meanings. For example, the rest the verse you quoted says, "Therefore, 'if you enemy hungers, feed him, if he thirsts give him drink, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire on his head. Do NOT be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good." THAT is how God overcomes His enemies. Visit the tentmaker site and keyword "The wrath of man" and learn of God's ways versus man
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@draphaelc he was already judged
xIAZAZIx 1 year ago
This man is doing Satan proud.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
Ignorance is Satan's weapon and it seems you are the one who would prefer people be ignorant. Study to show yourself approved at tentmaker web site.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I'd rather be called ignorant any day than bury my head in the sand about the Truth and embrace the deception of Universalism.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
So you'd rather shame the cross and Jesus and say it wasn't sufficient to undo what Adam did. Grace does NOT abound more than sin according to you. Jesus is an utter failure according to your thinking. I'd rather believe He is the "Savior of the world" than believe He lost most of it. Which would Satan prefer you believe? :-)
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I'd rather believe what God and the Bible tells me. That those who die in their sins will perish.
Universalists seek to twist and pervert the scripture to suit their humanistic view of how God should act. Only doctrine which brings one to Jesus and saves from sin is true; all else is false and ruinous.
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1Jn:2:4
Ezek:18:4: "..the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
Universalists seek to BELIEVE in the Great promises in the Bible. Hellfire damnationists seek to enlarge their Hell. I believe: 1 Tim. 4:9-11, a wonderful statement. You obviously don't. Why? Because you have no faith to believe. You're an unbeliever. :-)
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@Indigohue
Understand, if God does forgive and restore all mankind, your time here on earth was totally fruitless because you spent your entire time blaspheming Him, telling the world He was the worst kind of monster, worse than all the evil men like Hitler combined because they only killed their victims. But you say God will torture His enemies forever and ever. What a horrible epitaph for you. Here lies a man who spent his life blaspheming God thinking he was doing right. Now that;s ignorant
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
You are so spiritually blind. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the wicked inherit the kingdom of God. Nor does it say God repents of his judgment of the wicked or that it is anything other than final and fixed.That is why we have to repent and accept Jesus in THIS life.
You are the one judging God.,you are questioning His authority and putting Him on trial, instead of seeing yourself as the one who will be judged.
The Bible says that Fear of the Lord, is the beginning of wisdom
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue Amen!
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@Indigohue
Ahhh, Indigohue, aren't you "wicked?" Are you righteous apart from the grace of God? If you ARE righteous, how did it happen? Why are you glorying in your righteousness considering "There is NONE righteous, nay, not one." But I suppose that excludes you and foreverinchrist1.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
That verse means we are all born in sin,we are all unrighteous, but through acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Saviour AND repentance of our sins we are saved.
Remember it says in Cor 1 6-7 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
One of the evil fruits of a False Teacher is that they teach that Christians can have willful or known sin in their life and still go to heaven.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
One of the evil fruits of a false teacher is condemning others for the same things they do themselves EVEN AS CHRISTIANS. I bet your closet is presently FULL of "willful or known sin" and yet you still tell us that YOU are going to heaven. Jesus would call this hypocrisy, wouldn't He? Now what does jesus say about hypocrites? Read Matthew 23. It probably speaks of you, doesn't it?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I trust in Jesus and do not willfully sin.. According to your unbiblical doctrine even evil, sadistic, God hating despots like Hitler will eventually be sitting on the right hand side of God.
The fallen man recoils from the horrifying fact of eternal punishment, so he fabricates his own truth according to what HE believes is justice.
You are not preaching to save from sin or bring people to Jesus, but just to convert others to the humanistic religion of Universalism.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
Salvation is by grace, it is a gift, not of works. Your comments make it plain that you trust in your own righteousness or else you would never say the things you say about Hitler. Have you ever read about Hitler's childhood? Of any of the childhoods of the worlds despots? You'll find they almost all have a common background. And they all need the same grace you appropriate for yourself. You are a crooked businessman using double standards my friend. You are not wise.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I never said salvation was by works, not grace. But if after a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour they were to continue to willfully sin that would make them nothing more than a big, fat hypocrite and it would be a sham salvation.
It is plain you have sympathy with evil.Loads of people have tough childhoods, we don't all grow up to murder millions of innocent children in gas chambers.You've fallen for Satan's seducing lie, that there is no hell ,no need to fear God.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
You are proud and self-righteous and nothing but a big fall is going to humble you enough to make you see that the condemnation you are peddling is the evil you see in others. You are projecting on others and God the evil in your OWN heart. There isn't a nickles worth of difference between your evil and the evil of a man like Hilter. The wages of sin is DEATH, it doesn't matter how many, death is death. Period.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
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@tentmaker777
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness’
Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and WILL NOT AT ALL acquit the WICKED.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
You are completely cuckoo!
I can't discuss this anymore with you as it's obvious you're in complete spiritual darkness.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue
One person's "darkness" is another person's light. If the LIGHT IN YOU is darkness, how gross the darkness! God is love and nothing is impossible to this love. Yet your "gospel" consigns the vast majority of mankind to an eternal garbage heap. And you say I'm in complete darkness? What a hideous gross thought and your mind has been swallowed up by it. May the Lord of Grace give you eyes to see all His glory, then you wouldn't say such shameful things about our Savior and Lord.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777
I wouldn't worry about me, because according to you everyone is going to be saved, regardless of what they do, say or believe.
You are only interested in converting people to the humanistic religion of Universalism .
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue yes, but you will be judged by fire, just like everyone is! That is scriptural. According to YOUR skewed view of God, the fate of someone in some obscure country who has never even heard of the Jesus, let alone "accepted" him as savior (but otherwise lived a good life and never hurt anyone), a mass murderer, and a child molester all have the same fate, ETERNAL TORTURE in fire! You idolize eternal hell!
redtygrr 1 year ago
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@Indigohue You believe that you have to "accept" Jesus into your heart before you die or burn in hell for eternity, therefore you DO believe that "salvation is by works" Duh! And where in the world do you get that anyone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Saviour automatically stops sinning?!
redtygrr 1 year ago
@redtygrr
I notice with nearly all Universalists that their arguments are so paper thin that they resort to insults to try and get people to conform to their false interpretation of the Bible. Belief in Jesus IS necessary to be saved, works are evidence of our faith.
If you were truly saved you would no longer be gravitating towards sin. Jesus said "By your fruits shall ye be known".
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue: show SCRIPTURAL evidence that faith is by OUR works, and not God giving it to us, without taking verses out of context like all you eternal hell believers do. You can't! Show scriptural evidence that man has a freewill. You can't. YOUR interpretation of the bible is FALSE, so unless you can debate me with anything other than your inane babbling, don't respond to me anymore! And how dare you judge whether I'm saved or not! Read the bible about judging others!
redtygrr 1 year ago
@redtygrr
Salvation is a choice, not a given. I said salvation is by grace, faith in Jesus, but the evidence of that faith is works.
I wasn't even suggesting you are not saved, I was generalising.Get off your high horse and try reading my comments properly.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue EVERYONE sins, it's in their nature! And who are you to judge Hitler as God hating?
redtygrr 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 No disrespect, but how do you explain passages like Revelation 21:10?
aDarkRage27 1 year ago
@aDarkRage27
@foreverinchrist1
The lake of fire is the second death, that is the death of death which brings life. It is not to “torment” things but to “test” them. That is the true meaning of basanos. And it is not “forever and ever” but for the ages of the ages. That is the true Greek. The Bible speaks of the “restoration of all things” Acts. 3:21. The Lake of Fire purifies with fire and brimstone. There's much more on Scholars Corner at the Tentmaker Site.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Your theology makes no sense at all. Jesus said that: Not everyone that saith Lord,Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in Heaven (Mt.7:29 KJV). He goes further to say that: Then He will say to those on His left hand, 'Depart from me, you cured, into (Gr. Aionios) eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Nestle-Aland Greek-English N.T.). this fire has to do with punishment, is not temporary, but final
Pt.1
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
You are sending me messages in the inbox and I don't see a way to answer them in yahoo. Don't send me emails. Make your posts here in pubic so people can see your insanity in plain site. Tell the people who read here that you think God only selects choice people like yourself to go to heaven while He hates the rest of mankind and has predetermined to torture them in ways that would make Hitler look like a saint. May you be delivered from your insanity....soon.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 What ever your point is, it's not working! You seem to think people are interested in your insults. It show just what kind of person you really are. Why would you call me insane I don't know. But you are wrestling with Holy Ghost and not me. I pray for you with love in my heart, that He will open your eyes, to be able to see and understand His word. That is something you need. your folly and hypocrisy in the Word shows. The only conclusions you come to, is to insult me.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Well, when I got delivered from that demonic doctrine of a God who will send most of mankind to eternal tortures, I see then that I was insane to believe the nonsense I was taught in traditional church. Here's an email I got this week from a former hell believer: I can't believe I ever believed God wasn't going to save everyone. That's such blasphemy it feels great to repent and get right with Him. " When you get your right mind, YOU too will see how insanve you presently are
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I won't waste anymore time trying to give the truth. You are spiriturally dead. The only thing you have done is allow the devil to deceive to into thinking that it's alright to live anyway you want, God will save you anyway.
John make this statement against you! He said, If they were of us they would have continued with us (1 Jn.2:19). You were never saved then, and you are not saved now. I wipe the dust off my feet, You condemn yourself.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1 I get really tired of hearing eternal heller Christians like yourself say stupid things like, "God will save you anyway, live like you want! blah blah blah" How about this point of view: eternal hell believers like yourself hide under the guise of "I can live like I want, treat people like crap who don't believe exactly like I do because I accepted Jesus as my savior, therefore I get a free pass to heaven". You fork-tongued, wolf in sheep's clothing hypocrite!
redtygrr 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 So we know that Aionios Mean what it mean's, and that is eterna (forever). The next word is (Gr. puros) fire. Is it a cleansing fire or a fire of retributive judgment? We must be consistent with rightly dividing the Word of truth. This is the same fire that Jesus talks about in Mt.25:41. Notice if you will sir, the goats on His left were cast into everlasting fire to be punished eternally forever. It is not the same as in Act 3:21. It's meaning is different.
Pt.2
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
On the tentmaker site, there are several articles dealing with fire in the Bible. One is on the "Lake of fire" by J. Preston Eby. Another one, I wrote. God IS a consuming fire. And when your FEAR of fire is done away with, you will be comfortable in God's fire. But perfect love casts out fear. Obiously, the theologiy you have swallowed has filled you with it. Please go to the tentmaker site and read "fire in the Bible" and J Preston Eby's article on the Lake of fire.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Your idea of redemption is totally wrong. That is the problem with your isogesis. Just by the mere fact that all will not make it into the Kingdom of God should change your view. But as Scripture teaches, Salvation is only for the elect (Jn 6:65; Eph 1:4,5). Goats won't make it in, unless Jesus is a great lier!
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Oh, a Calvinist whose heart is like this: "“At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness." Or "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. What rot! What a disgrace to God
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I am not a Calvinist sir, I base my belief totally on the Scripture. If Calvin agrees with me so be it. The truth shall make you free. You say what I believe is a disgrace before God, wow! It's funny, if not sad that you reject the very word's of Jesus Himself. I only quoted His word's. you reject them. The shame is on you! that my friend is very sad!!!.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
I believe the words of Jesus when He says, "And I, if I am lifted from the earth will draw (drag in greek) all mankind unto Myself." John 12:32 I think that is a powerful promise and statement of fact. I have great enough faith to believe what you say is imposssible. I know NOTHING is impossible with God and His love NEVER fails. The love of your puny god can scarcely save a handful of "elect" chosen frozen.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 No disrespect sir but I don't need to go to some cite to here someone try in tell me about the Greek language. I studied Greek and I know that greek word meanings are not the same as English meanings. To understand any word function in a text you have to understand it's context that it is written in. The Gr word "pur" has many meanings. Context will tell you just what the writer ment by the use of the word in it's context.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
So you know Greek. Tell me, sir, does "eternities of the eternities" make sense to you?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Your idea that God is not fair if He punish all those who reject Him, makes no sense. God owns no one mercy or grace. We all deserve the judgement of God against us for the wickedness we have done. So you sound foolish with your universalism that will lead you to total destruction. If anything we who are called according to His purpose are the blessed one's. He chooses not to give us our just reward for our wickedness, but gave us His mercy and grace because of His good pleasure.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Is it "fair" to consign most of mankind to a place of everlasting tortures? Is it "fair" to send a little child to eternal damnation simply for being born? Is that your sense of justice? Because THAT is the traditional teaching of the church for hundreds of years. God's sense of justice is so much higher than yours that you ought to be ashamed of yourself and keep your silly mouth shut. Please, don't speak of justice to me. You haven't even a close clue to what it is.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Justice? whom! We all deserve God's Justice. God doesn't owe us anything but justice. So where do you get the idea that God owes you mercy and grace? What makes you so special that you are different then the rest of us. The fact is sir, It was God who dicided to elect His people before they were even born, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Having predestinated us . . . according to the good pleasure of His "WILL" (Eph.1:4,5). I think that's God's will.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Here is justice: Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. and again: Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALLLL in unbelief that He might....
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 The bottom line is my friend, if they don't accept Jesus it is fruitless to believe anyone will be eternally saved. Once you die and never been born again, it will be to late. So if one never desires to come to Jesus, but rather enjoy the pleasures of this world, it is conclusive that they are not one of the elect. Notice what Jesus said to them who cry out to Him and think they deserve to enter His Kingdom. Depart from me, I never knew you.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Do you see how contradictory your mind thinks? If Jesus is indeed the savior of all, then He would be MOST fruitful. It is YOU who turn the fruitful Jesus into a dead plant bearing very little life. I understand all does not mean all in some places. I understand figures of speech. But you reject when the word all plainly means all due to your pathetic interpretation of God’s nature and character. You’ve made God to be worse than yourself, an absolute hypocrite.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Contradictory? The more foolish you talk, the foolish you sound! I teach sir that Jesus only die for the elect and nothing else. That is why He isn't a failure, That it the purpose of elect (Ro.9:11). any other way would be a failure. If salvation depend's on man, then that my friend would be chance. God in His sovereign will decrees something, and it must come to pass. So in election all who are chosen will be saved forever. This is plainly Scripture.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Well, my "elect" friend, if Heaven is to be populated by egotists such as your self, it would be a pretty miserable place to abide in. When Jesus walked this earth, he called people like you snakes and whitewashed tombs and ate with street sinners, those who the "chosen people" considered scum. I've taken the place of the pharisee and are too blind to see it. Pride certainly makes one proud, and Calvinists are among the most proud in the world. You, sir, are a Calvinist, yuck
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Calling me name's only show you stupidy. If you think heaven will be a miserable place because sinner's won't be allowed in, you're mistaken!
The only pride I see is you and your isogesis. To believe what you believe, I mite as well wait until I die and get ready for the firer( purging). where I can get clean and make it in. I can live anyway I want! God love me and it's ok with Him. I don't need Jesus, The lake of fire will take care of that.. "lol" that is stupid and dumb.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Duh, it is YOU who say only those who God "elects" will be saved. So, according to YOUR own theology, YOU can do what you want and still go to heaven because you are saved by grace and not by works. And now your contradict yourself. See folks, I said he was insane and he just keeps proving it.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 What ever you think! But there is no contradicttion in grace alone. You believe Hitler is saved! Now that's stupid! Only the elect are called to live a life pleasing to God (Eph.1:4,5; Ro.6:1,2; 1 Jn.3:9). Hitler hated Jews, and anyone else who rejected his idiology. If he was an elected one, he would have never done the things he did (Jn.8:47). He was never saved!
Don't twist what I have said, God's people don't live a sinful life (Ro.6:1,2).
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Oh, so only good people are called to be elect? I'm sure a lot of Calvinists are now blushing due to your ignorance of Sovereignty, Predestination and election. Tell me about how "good" you have been your whole life so that God could find you "worthy" to be among the elect. Please do tell.
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 Let's see! Jesus said that He lay down His life for His sheep! (Jn.10:15b). Why not the whole world? Well, He answered that question. He said you believe not , because you are not my sheep (Jn.10:26). Was Jesus teaching a universal salvation? No! Only His elect are His sheep. So we see He did not die for the whole world. Not only this, but He only pray's for His sheep and not the world (Jn.17:9). So you call me a hypocrite, That is a joke. If there is a hypocrite it is you.
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
No comprende?
tentmaker777 1 year ago
@foreverinchrist1 Mankind reject's him, if God didn't elect anyone no one would be saved. Man doesn't want God, they only want the benefit's that he offer's. They don't want to serve Him. That's why so many like what you teach sir. They want the benefit's but not God. Sorry, God doesn't work that way. You either want to live holy and without blame before him in love (Eph.1:4b) or you don't. God's grace is given to the elect only (Jn.6:65).
foreverinchrist1 1 year ago
@tentmaker777 I think it's pretty ironic that eternal hell believers bring up brimstone, like it's something caustic, to add to the pain of eternal flames. In reality it is a PURIFIER!
redtygrr 1 year ago