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From: pokerch
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  • the rule of two doesnt make sense, there are 12 outs and there are 47 cards that havent been seen so 12/47 is 25% not 48%. so can anyone explain this to me?

  • @alextuu It's right because he has 12 outs twice, being the turn and river, which gives him the 48% (47.78%) chance of catching one of his cards on the turn or river.

  • @Kentmoney53 ohhhhh ok thank you for the reply!

  • Why not play blackjack and use a system that guarantees 65% solid rock ratio! Skeptical about it? Come watch my video, check my profile and visit my website to know more.

  • I personally find this quite useless. What if you're playing against people who just bet stupid or try to bluff? Great players uses their instinct.

  • @Clevergamer actually great players use both

  • this is good however, there are unknown poker odds which are not calculated say the last example is 20% to win but costs 33% it doesnt say that you could potentially take a lot of chips if you hit your hand.

  • You can't win poker just by playing by the odds, there are far more deeper levels to consider. Also a good player will pick that pattern soon and adjust to it so that you are unable to play any hand with odds.

  • thank you

  • How do you apply this to online poker where the winning hand is pre-determined by the software and 4% runner-runners are just as likely as 48% outers after the flop?

  • @BigEricHunt I disagree on predetermination, but let's try an answer. It's a problem of wording, in that your opponent would have to know the flop before. If he'd know the software and abuses it, it'd be obvious. Do not confuse with good math handling (eg 87 suited vs AA at good pot odds). If he knows and doesn't abuse, then odds math works. 2 nights ago, KK as bb, 20k stack was challenged by SB, 40k stack with all-in (at 4k bb). I called and he won with 93 clubs hitting suite.

  • @BigEricHunt would I call him again same situation? yes, over and over, since he made up his stack with "normal" bets at right pot odds and that was just a moment when he thought to pressure me to cede the blind, but he just got lucky. And whenever I suspected something is fishy about players who seemed to win endlessly in re-buy tournaments), they ended losing everything in 2-3 "smart" all-ins preflop with 94 offsuit or k2 offsuit etc. I never saw such apparent know-er ending ITM.

  • @BigEricHunt and one final spam, verified on my own skin: whenever I ended up ITM or when I won my only tournament so far (on pokerstars), I relied heavily on math and trying to understand others' playstyle and ofc a touch of luck. Whenever I inversed the balance, relying heavily on luck I ended before money.

  • Comment removed

  • actually if your at the flop with 12 outs your chances aren't 12*4=48% but 12/47+12/46= 51,5% and after turn, 12/46= 26% .. so you should to the 4 & 2 rule and add 1 or 2% for a better result

  • @pomonolii

    and there is also a chance of catching a runner-runner that could make your hand

  • Yes it's simple but like a previous comment there are many more efficient ways to do this.

  • strategy is one thing but not the only thing!! i read a short ebook called "secret advantages of a poker pro" and it drops the ball on what the pro poker players really do. i downloaded it on amazon

  • can this only be used to calculate straights and flushes?

  • @cianoo45 of course not, it's just a good example.. you just have to think about all cards that can make your hand the winnning hand, count them and you have your outs

  • @cianoo45 No it can be used for any situation, you should also be thinking. Am I ahead anyway, and what does my opponent have, and therefore how many outs does he have, if you have AQo and the flop comes KJ10o if your opponnent bets, what does he have, for example if you think he has KJ or J10 he has 4 outs to make his full house and cream your straight, if he has JJ or KK 1010 he has 5 etc, or is it a wild bluff, so you can also use it to measure your bet/raise.

  • i dont get the last part

    2 to 1 odds

    the how did he get 1/3=33%

    someone please explain asap thanks 

  • @gary4poker because he includes his bet, meaning the two hundred in the pot plus his one hundred bet results in him contributing 100 out of the 300 in the pot. i.e. 1/3

  • Is the rule of 4 and 2 for calculating percent chance of winning or percent chance of improving the hand?

  • @TheEllipsis731 same thing dude, the percentage of improving your hand means that with the improved hand you'll win, so the % of improving the hand IS the % of winning

  • @talula44 he was counting # of spades to make a flush, 6 and 5 were in his hand so no, they are not counted in # of opportunities for the next card (outs)

  • @danielthomas531 What's the point if your spammy comments - what do you hope you achieve by spamming videos about sites being rigged? Are you trying to drive traffic to a website? Get a life and do it the proper way idiot.

  • You want your pot odds high and your hand odds low, right?

  • @Allanlegacy43 Lol, whut. No, Pot odds < Outs (Hand Odds?) or you probably don't wanna risk it.

  • @NonisMonster Ok what I meant is like the odds of a player hitting the card they need, don't you want that to be the lowest like 2to1 and the pot odds to be high like 10 to 1 isn't that a good thing? maybe I'm new to this but it seems thats what they are saying here, isnt it?

  • its usually a little less than 4 on the flop ( because of the outs that can make you draw dead) and a little more than 2 on the river .... and when you get 4:1 for a call, it should be a 25% chance of winning, not 20%... because the extra 5% is your money that is not in the pot, you cant count that.

  • Question about calculating Outs: do you calculate the cards that will give you a straight, even though you need 2 cards to make it?

    Example scenario: I got Q(clubs)K(clubs). Flop is 9(clubs), 8(heart), 8(spade).

    So, my Outs at this point are: 3 other Qs + 3 other Ks + 10 remaining clubs = 16?

    OR is it: 3 other Qs + 3 other Ks + 10 remaining clubs + 3 tens (not double-counting Ten of clubs) + 3 Js (not double-counting J of clubs) = 22?

    Sorry if I made it sound too complicated :-)

  • @xxX3xGXxx The first option. This method doesn't work for runner runner straight/flush draws.

  • @xxX3xGXxx: The odds of runner-runner are less than one out, so they're not counted.

  • @xxX3xGXxx nope. just one card or it doesn't work with this formula.

  • Great, great guide to counting outs. Helped me out a lot. Nice video!

  • how do u convert ur outs into fractions can anyone tell me ??? like if i have 5 outs on the flop its 5*4 = 20 % chance of making my hand ... so how do i convert thhat into fractions ??? calculating pot odds in fractions is much easier than percentages so i wanted to know how to calc outs in fractions

  • @sykhophaunt7 well its pretty simple, seeing how 20% is equal to 20/100. simplify that and you'll get 1/5. I think thats what your asking, but I may be confused

  • Thank you for a clear and understandable explanation.

  • I dont get it... how can the pot increase your chance of winning if your hand is garbage ???

  • Here are some good poker training videos of Jonathan Little coaching his students live. bit.ly (hyphen )akUon9

  • i have 2 bet more to scar epeople off

  • When you got 12 outs , do you do 12 x 2? = 24% i will get a hand? Answer in pm , thank you

  • poker is about feeling and reading others players not doing maths ..

    you can have 1% chance to win and you'll win... you'll learn your own technique by simply playing a lot with different people ...

  • If i got 7-5 Clubs, and the flop comes T-Q-6 two of them clubs, then i got 9 outs on flush draw, 4 outs for straight, and 6 outs for two pair.. then i have 9+4+6= 19, so 19*4=76% change to make my hand? Correct?

  • i don't understand the rule of 4.. according to this, if i have 15 outs I have a 60% chance of improving my hand. but how is this possible when the deck has 30 cards out of the 45 left which would not help me at all (a 66.7% chance of NOT improving)? or is this rule only used to determine whether you should or shouldn't make the call while taking into account pot odds?

  • @leftstanding The reason it works is that you have *two* streets to improve. BTW, 15 outs is only about a 54% chance to improve, the rule of 4 starts to break down after the ninth out. I give myself 3% for each out after the ninth so 9x4 + 6x3 = 54%.

    The exact percentage for 15 genuine outs is 1 - (32/47 * 31/46) ~= 54.12%

  • @leftstanding you have 2 chances too make it turn, river

  • Great Video...!!!!

  • ok u mutiply by 4 on the flop and 2 on the turn , but how do u work out the percentage of ya hand preflop....like if u have A-J (off) vs K-Q (suited), how would i work the percentage out b4 the flop?? i mean i could rough guess and say 55 -45 in favour of the a-j , but there must be a method 2 be accurute?

  • great info... i bet the 100min vid covers implied odds too.. might be worth it

  • Gordon knows what's he talking about.

  • good advice

  • tnx was rly helpfull

  • 100 of your chips in a total 500 chip pot if you call = 20% of ur chips

  • Amazing info. Wonder if it works. Gonna try implementing it into my play and time will tell. Thanks!!

  • $500(pot after call)/$100(amount to call)=20%

  • u can divide the bet with the pot to get the exact potodds. ie 100/400 = 25%

  • no u cant coz theres 500$ in the pot if u call not 400 so its 20% as its 100/5=20

  • at 2:58 how did he get 20 % can you pls explain little bit?

  • (your call) / (pot after your call)

  • You mean that i call 100 chips and in pot will be 400 that give me 100:400=0,25 :D i dont understand :D

  • No man.. after you call in pot will be 500

  • yes im 2 months late but for the new people, pot is 400$ and u are needed to call a 100$ bet in order to continue playing - what u do now is u divide 400/100= 4:1 that means out of 5 times playing that hand u will lose 4 times and win one time so u calculate 100% of the time divide with total times played and that is 5 in this time so its 100/5=20%

  • I appreciate this video very much. Thank you for posting it!

    It seems that for some it might be less thinking to calculate the pot odds 1st and then DIVIDE by either 2 or 4 BEFORE counting outs. In the case of your last example - I'd figure out the 33% before I'd start counting outs: 33 / 4 = 8.25 then I'd know to stop counting outs once I got to 8 or 9 knowing that I'd improved my hand enough to call.

    What do you guys think is easier?

  • I agree with "purdue2009". this clip was very helpful. I'm only a casual player but i think knowing wat ive just learned will give me a bit of an edge over my dumb friends! :D

  • this is byfar the easiest I seen counting outs explained...and I think I can apply this method.

  • tell me something y doesnt he include ,as part of the outs, the 6's or and the 5's?????

  • Because a pair of fives or sixes is a very weak hand.

  • whats the point of knowing pot odds?

  • the point is, you are able to see if your hand are strong enough for a call/raise if you would pay these hand often enough. Then you will by time more win as loss.

  • I don't get his calcuations. Why multiply it with 4? I mean ... You have 47 cards left, after the flop (You have 2, and there's 3 on the table 52-5). Shouldn't the outs be 12/47 = 25.5%? Please explain someone.

  • Never mind, it got clear to me ^^

  • so the video is correct or your 47-cards theorie ?

    cause i really would like to know ^^

  • Both is correct. My calculation is per card while the rule of 4 is used to see wheather you get your card on either the Turn or the River. My example there is the exact correct % for calculating the Turn. The rule of 2 is a simplified way to see your odds. In my example it's 12/47 = 25.5%, the rule of 2 says 12 (outs) x 2 = 24% which is close enough.

  • "...is used to see wheather you get your card on either the Turn or the River"

    I mean "...is used to see if you get your card at all with the Turn and River left to be revealed."

  • should have gone to maths in high school instead of smokin a joint buddy. the 2/4 rule is used as a quick method calculation , he assumes 50 cards left instead of 47. 12 outs out of 50 cards is the same as saying 24 outs out of 100 cards which is essentially saying 24/100 = 24%. so if you have a hand with say 7 outs after the turn...you have 7x2 = 14% chance of hitting. kapish

  • cause when ur calculating the pot odds on the last exemple...you are asked to put one chip in the pot containing two chips. so ur chips will be part of a three chips pot. one chip on a three chips pot 1/3= 33%

  • ok here is where it loses me.

    i get the pot odds.

    but i dont understand where the 33% comes into it. can somebody help me?

  • because these hands wouldnt make him win

    Lol

  • Comment removed

  • why is he not counting cards that would give him a pair of fives or sixes?

  • because doesnt guarantee you will not make the best hand - there are higher cards on board and they could be paired

  • Thanks .. it helped alot

  • Phil Hellmuth said on "poker after dark" that he is no fan of calculatiing pot odds. It is more important to know what your chips allow you to do, call or raise without going broke or into the short stack.

  • Believe me, Hellmuth uses odds.

  • well, this is something that how do you disguise and not let players know you are calculating pot odds in your head because then they will know you are on a draw and then all they have to do is bet a bigger bet on the next bet.

  • @mclinick123i if your are on a draw.... you could try semi-bluffing.. a bluff on the flop..a good bet usually works..and then if you hit your straight or the flush on the turn your hand is pretty much disguised as the other players will think you were betting a hand on the flop..

  • @blackicebandit well that is clever. sometimes you can get a better read by how someone bets than how they call. so check calling is another alternative.i like to check call unless i have a lot of chips. sometimes you can be outkicked if you hit your flush and go broke on guessing if they have an ace or not. poker is such a mind game! i got rivered trips to beat my high pair recently and also my kings were beat by queen ten when he rivered a full house

  • La regola del 4 & 2...non la conoscevo...la applicherò su Poker Club e vedremo cosa succederà...

  • cards that can improve your hand

  • what are outs lol

    You should stick to playing snap

  • yh but what happens when u have the top pair yet you only have 5 outs which only makes 20% or 10% yet u must be more likely to win

  • They are the odds to IMPROVE ur hand man.

  • trying doing all this is 20 second turns lol

  • slm

  • ok i got a question i tried doing this on my own after i saw the video i got for cards a 4 of clubs and a k of spades. the flop put out a 9 of d a 10 of d and a k of clubs. at this point my best hands i could draw are a 3 of a kind or a four of a kind, correct? that only gives me 2 outs 2x4 is 8% thats not good odds but i already have a good hand how do i calculate the pot based off the 8% when i could win with a pair of kings?

  • well the video was showing the possibility of getting a good hand...u already have a good hand comapred to wut could be out there...u have top pair...but notice that there are possible straight draws and flush draws...so in that case you may feel u need 3 of a kind for a winning hand

  • That is why this game is not as easy as it seems.

    I do not agree with the odds calculation.

    With the rule of 4, one sees his two hole cards, and the 3 flopped cards.

    12 outs/(52-5)= 25.5% chance of improving.

    With the rule of 2, (two hole cards, and the 4 flopped cards) 15 outs/(52-6) = 32.6% chance of improving.

    The skill comes in playing the 2 cards you are dealt, betting the flop, calling a raise, etc. An hour to learn the rules, a lifetime to Master the game, if ever.

  • try mastering chess, an amaetur would never beat a pro.

    That's why i love hold em!

  • yes, but they don't win it for sure ... you do get a better hand, but not the winning...

  • Correct ;) As I said, if you don't think making the flush will help you because somone is on a better flush draw or got a full house just much it. But you wont be counting outs if you don't think that your flush will be the best hand ;)

    To say it simple: You count only the cards that you think will give you the best hand.

  • I don't get the first part with counting outs. should'nt you also count all the 5's and 6's because they're cards which could improve your hand as well ??

  • outs meens the cards you moust cartain gives you the best hand. If you don't think making the flush is any good because someone else is on a higher flush draw or something don't count outs. You should not count the 5 and the 6 because it's not for certain that it will give you the best hand.

  • ahhh, thanx.

  • If i got AK in spades and the flop shows 10-J-2 with two spades i got 9 outs on my flush draw 3 outs on my straigth and I think that i get the best hand if i get eigther the A or the K so i got 6 more outs there. So i have 9+3+6= 18 outs. 18*4= 72%

  • @alfen15 The rule about outs on the flop x 4 breaks down a bit with more than 9 outs. I only give myself 3% for each out after the ninth, so with 18 outs that's 9x4 + 9x3 = 36 + 27 = 63%.

    I put this into pokerstove - I hold AsKs, villain holds Jh9d, flop is TsJs2c, pokerstove gives me 61.3%.

    Basically anything over a 50% chance you are going to call anyway, which is about 14 outs.

  • @alfen15 I think you included the queen of spades twice so its more like 17 outs and 68%. Although i guess someone has prob mentioned that since you posted this 3 years ago lol.

  • @alfen15 63-64% actually ...

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