Ran across this book today and was curious about it, big ass book so didn't want to invest w/o some more investigation... So I thought it was really cool to run across your channel (not even thinking about the book any longer) maybe half and hour later and then see that you had posted a vid about it . I'm thinking this meaningful coincidence has me leaning against getting the book, but just thought I'd share, and thank you for sharing : )
I have to disagree with his thesis a little bit. Isn't that oversimplifying a bit? I do think that human beings have learned to cooperate more over time, but not from empathetic motivations, from purely selfish motivations of wanting to be secure and prosper. A harmonious society obviously is one fueled by a semblance of empathy, even if the individuals motivations for it are purely selfish.
That's a really good point. Empathy is something that is cultivated and grown but it seems a lot of our impulses and intentions are largely, at first, very selfish. This would make sense evolutionarily. The mammalian brain wasn't "innate," in that sense, it took a long time to develop new levels of social complexity/emotions that we didn't have off-the-bat.
@g00ch --I would pretty much agree w/ Koestler. At one point the reptilian brain was actually a great advancement, but now it's an older anchor that, I think, mammals and humans are gradually transcending, in greater degrees. Not that it would or could vanish entirely, but be "balanced" by this newly emerging "empathic" ability. Greater complexity, greater maturity, greater consciousness.
How do you regain empathy? How do you care about others. What do you do when you see a dead child crushed by rocks and you dont feel moved or sadden? How does one ragain compassion? Is it possible to loose it? If it is indeed an evolutionary mechanism and, we as a species have acquared this, and it seems to be growing. how then, if we can at all, forget to care for others.
Empathy, according to Jifkins, is something like an inner disposition that we naturally tend towards, if circumstances permit. The book mentions "mirror neurons" which allow humans to take the perspective of other. I don't think we can lose their empathy totally, but certain conditions may "block" or prevent that part of us from growing. Such as stress, promoting violence, social unrest, unhealthy social memes, political oppression, etc.
I agree in that, i also dont think we can lose it completely(i'v been saying "loose", lol) but, i can asure you, we can lose it to the point that, human suffering doesnt affect at all. Lets take haiti for example,simply out of convenience, I find it hard to care for those people. This is the reasoning that comes to mind. People are dying every second of every day. Does it matter how that end comes about? If i care for those in Haiti, should i care for every other living being? Detached.
Alienated. If indeed, we are somehow favored to act this way by an evolutionary trait, how does one arrive at this mentality.How does so much apathy come about? Is it merely an issue of dualism? empathy must have apathy? We cant all care about everything? Why? It would seem like something great.
Could it also be that the way in which we are cultured to empathize (vicariously through television, drama, news stations) nulls us to developing real empathy? I think we could care about everyone. IE the Buddhists practice Lojong meditation.
I only once had that impression, and that didn't have anything to do with what you've been talking about, which is interesting. I myself am very pale white with reddish blond hair, looking like the 4-5D people in Lyran colonies in Tau Ceti, Alpha Centauri. You look like someone from Sirius A. (Most other people will be like WTF when reading this).
Next question: what languages have you studied/study?
I know, besides English, Estonian (native), Russian, A little Spanish, some Norwegian.
High school and even college Latin teachers suck, in all countries. Just had to say it. They themselves can't speak the language to the extent of reminding oneself the concept of fluency, most of them. :)
Yes that's a fascinating reality... Human evolution is actually accelerating faster than ever before. Our DNA is as different humans 5000 years ago as theirs was from hunter gatherers.
Interesting as usual...I can wait to find the book you're taking about...Like you, the possibility that altruism is not just a genetic strategy for gene survival obsesses me too.
Feel free to spam all you want! I love it when someone actually comes out w/ a book like this. It's not too spacey/out there with its own metaphysics, but just bold enough to be prophetic. Then again, I guess that's what makes a thinker/philosophy prophetic. Thanks for the spelling correction btw, I fixed the title.
This is one of the few times I will buy the book someone has vlogged about! Very inspiring, along the pathway that I choose to take for myself and wish to develop.Thank you so much for this. Namaste
@thepathlesspath@thepathlesspath What do you think about Koestler's ideas in "Ghost in the Machine" about how the violent parts of our nature also stem from our innate biological relation to the reptilian brain? I am going to check this cat out, thank you my friend.
Great vid
infokemp 2 years ago
Ran across this book today and was curious about it, big ass book so didn't want to invest w/o some more investigation... So I thought it was really cool to run across your channel (not even thinking about the book any longer) maybe half and hour later and then see that you had posted a vid about it . I'm thinking this meaningful coincidence has me leaning against getting the book, but just thought I'd share, and thank you for sharing : )
TheCrystalRivers 2 years ago
Cool. Nice synchronicity going on here. Glad you received value from the video!
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
It's a really good book, and worth your time IMO.
2bsirius 2 years ago
Thanks, I'll keep it on the maybe list :)
TheCrystalRivers 2 years ago
I have to disagree with his thesis a little bit. Isn't that oversimplifying a bit? I do think that human beings have learned to cooperate more over time, but not from empathetic motivations, from purely selfish motivations of wanting to be secure and prosper. A harmonious society obviously is one fueled by a semblance of empathy, even if the individuals motivations for it are purely selfish.
idork 2 years ago
That's a really good point. Empathy is something that is cultivated and grown but it seems a lot of our impulses and intentions are largely, at first, very selfish. This would make sense evolutionarily. The mammalian brain wasn't "innate," in that sense, it took a long time to develop new levels of social complexity/emotions that we didn't have off-the-bat.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
Are you familiar with stoic philosophy.
All the best
Infokemp
infokemp 2 years ago
@g00ch --I would pretty much agree w/ Koestler. At one point the reptilian brain was actually a great advancement, but now it's an older anchor that, I think, mammals and humans are gradually transcending, in greater degrees. Not that it would or could vanish entirely, but be "balanced" by this newly emerging "empathic" ability. Greater complexity, greater maturity, greater consciousness.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
It will eventually perhaps become the equivalent of the limbic system...or better yet, a vestal part we no longer need.
2bsirius 2 years ago
vestigial NOT vestal
DUH
2bsirius 2 years ago
How do you regain empathy? How do you care about others. What do you do when you see a dead child crushed by rocks and you dont feel moved or sadden? How does one ragain compassion? Is it possible to loose it? If it is indeed an evolutionary mechanism and, we as a species have acquared this, and it seems to be growing. how then, if we can at all, forget to care for others.
WtfJuju 2 years ago
Empathy, according to Jifkins, is something like an inner disposition that we naturally tend towards, if circumstances permit. The book mentions "mirror neurons" which allow humans to take the perspective of other. I don't think we can lose their empathy totally, but certain conditions may "block" or prevent that part of us from growing. Such as stress, promoting violence, social unrest, unhealthy social memes, political oppression, etc.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
I agree in that, i also dont think we can lose it completely(i'v been saying "loose", lol) but, i can asure you, we can lose it to the point that, human suffering doesnt affect at all. Lets take haiti for example,simply out of convenience, I find it hard to care for those people. This is the reasoning that comes to mind. People are dying every second of every day. Does it matter how that end comes about? If i care for those in Haiti, should i care for every other living being? Detached.
WtfJuju 2 years ago
Alienated. If indeed, we are somehow favored to act this way by an evolutionary trait, how does one arrive at this mentality.How does so much apathy come about? Is it merely an issue of dualism? empathy must have apathy? We cant all care about everything? Why? It would seem like something great.
WtfJuju 2 years ago
Could it also be that the way in which we are cultured to empathize (vicariously through television, drama, news stations) nulls us to developing real empathy? I think we could care about everyone. IE the Buddhists practice Lojong meditation.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
Hey, Jer, what is your ethnic heritage?
MaBu888 2 years ago
I'm native-Mexican. Random bit of information: i was adopted as a baby from Guadalajara, raised as a New Yorker :) My parents are irish and italian.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
I only once had that impression, and that didn't have anything to do with what you've been talking about, which is interesting. I myself am very pale white with reddish blond hair, looking like the 4-5D people in Lyran colonies in Tau Ceti, Alpha Centauri. You look like someone from Sirius A. (Most other people will be like WTF when reading this).
Next question: what languages have you studied/study?
I know, besides English, Estonian (native), Russian, A little Spanish, some Norwegian.
MaBu888 2 years ago
I've studied latin (very basic in HS), spanish and took a semester of japanese in college.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
High school and even college Latin teachers suck, in all countries. Just had to say it. They themselves can't speak the language to the extent of reminding oneself the concept of fluency, most of them. :)
Thanks for responding very quickly!
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
Yes I remember it was less than interesting as a class. :( NP! Glad I'm around today to chat!
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
For the past 40,000 years the human genome has been in a state of accelerating change. For the past 5000 years even more so.
MaBu888 2 years ago
Yes that's a fascinating reality... Human evolution is actually accelerating faster than ever before. Our DNA is as different humans 5000 years ago as theirs was from hunter gatherers.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
Interesting as usual...I can wait to find the book you're taking about...Like you, the possibility that altruism is not just a genetic strategy for gene survival obsesses me too.
Thanks for feeding my book addiction!
2bsirius 2 years ago
Oops..."You're TALKING about...
It's early on a very snowy morning here in England, and my brain is NOT awake yet.
2bsirius 2 years ago
A fast note: I just did an Amazon search for the book....It's listed with one I read recently, 'The Age of Empathy' by Frans de Waal...
Btw his last name seems to be RIFKIN, not Jifkin...
Again, thanks for the information.
2bsirius 2 years ago
Here's an interesting recent video about Rifkin and "Empathic Civilization"...
/watch?v=65CdIg22LXE
I find this SO interesting that I can't stop myself, but I'll TRY not to spam your video now.
2bsirius 2 years ago
Feel free to spam all you want! I love it when someone actually comes out w/ a book like this. It's not too spacey/out there with its own metaphysics, but just bold enough to be prophetic. Then again, I guess that's what makes a thinker/philosophy prophetic. Thanks for the spelling correction btw, I fixed the title.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
This is one of the few times I will buy the book someone has vlogged about! Very inspiring, along the pathway that I choose to take for myself and wish to develop.Thank you so much for this. Namaste
5jeanbittersweet 2 years ago 3
Great! Glad that you found this to be interesting.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
Comment removed
g00ch 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thepathlesspath @thepathlesspath What do you think about Koestler's ideas in "Ghost in the Machine" about how the violent parts of our nature also stem from our innate biological relation to the reptilian brain? I am going to check this cat out, thank you my friend.
g00ch 2 years ago