blessings to you beyondrelevance. people are being misinformed on the gospel simply because churches feel numbers are more important than ACTUAL salvations. most churches seem to have a goal of making more churches under THEIR vision this has not equaled more Disciples, just more people numb to Jesus' touch and more division. as a missionary i see very few resources go to the field and most of what does go goes to already highly evangelized nations. let's watch our priorities Matthew 28:19
@AFLeybaj Blessings to you. We often do not see what we do not see. Thank you for all you do for the Kingdom and for your challenge for us to look deeper.
i'm not sure Jesus would be very pleased with this video. i think he is happy with those who are trying to bring people to his kingdom <3 maybe that's just me :) plus.. we live To please God not men.
@thisismyusername3094 I agree. I think Jesus is very pleased with His church attempting to reach others. If there are things we can do to be better, we should do them. This is not about "pleasing" visitors, it is about "reaching" visitors. I pray we never stop trying to be better at reaching people for Christ. That's what the video is for. I have been blessed by hundreds of churches who have said this video helped them be better at reaching people for Christ.
@MrJerBear19 Thanks for the comment. As parable, its intent is not to make fun—but rather to make light of what we often inadvertently do as churches to help us consider the need to be introspective about the culture we create. The goal is to help us, as churches, be better. Sometimes, we have to be absurd to see things in a different light. Thanks so much!
@MrJerBear19 I can completely understand where you are coming from with that, but, just as beyondrelavance said in his/her reply, that's kind of the point - we need to be able to see ourselves like the rest of the world sees us, especially if we expect to be able to relate to the world or communicate with the rest of the world. I honestly thought this video was hilarious.
As much as I trust the sincerity of the makers of this video, the premise itself is flawed. It's important to always remember what a non-Christian might think about church, but Starbucks is a coffee joint and is trying to make money selling a product. Church is something different altogether. I think it would be a lot worse if church were more like Starbucks. And I've known several people who claim to be angry at church hypocrisy, but in reality just have unrealistic expectations.
@BardOfShwa Thanks for trusting our intent. We are simply trying to help churches think introspectively about how they might inadvertently mis-connect with visitors. There is no deeper point being made here—certainly no point about a goal to commercialize churches—that's not our agenda in any way.
@beyondrelevance That's great, but the message that was communicated to me was that "marketing strategies" are just generally inherently bad or need redirection or something. There's nothing wrong with that, but I would appreciate this video far more if it didn't just stop at pointing out problem, but provided a solution that is a little less abstract than "being like Jesus to the nonbeliever."
@BardOfShwa Thanks for asking. At the end (I know its a long video) there is a reference to our blog where we tackle the nuts and bolts of how to be different from the video in practical ways. We felt that a blog was the best way to address the topic in full. Hope you check it out. Many thanks!
@FlowerChild65 Good. Glad to see it does not apply. Believe it or not, the experiences here are not those we have seen in mega-churches, but in normal every day churches. Again, glad you are not seeing any similarities. But for some of us, there are—and we want to help those churches. Thanks!
@yko487 Sorry the church missed it with you. I will pray that Christ shows Himself to you another way. One day you might be very helpful at helping the church be better. Blessings to you—wish you well.
Ugh. This is so creepy. What you have to understand is, to a non-Christian, this is how it feels to attend a Christian church service. Never mind that you might have your own religious context and you're just visiting, you get singled out and put on the spot and told in no uncertain terms that everything there is The Best And Only. It doesn't matter how pure their intentions are; if they require you to be someone other than your true self in order to be One Of Them, this is how it feels.
@unicornbeck That's what it's like in America. I myself am Atheist, but in Europe there's none of this You better believe this or we'll stuff it down your throat. There's "You better believe this or we ignore you and silently hate you forever"
I'm uncomfortable with the mocking tone. However, visitors should be welcomed but not put on the spot. And the push for money, especially for a first timer, can be VERY disgusting. On the other hand, face it, churches need funds to operate.
This could be seen as an attempt to simply ridicule Christians and nothing more. If you have a heart, you should be able to see beyond the desperate "marketing" of any given church.
@JenniferWizdom Wow!!!! You have totally misunderstood our heart and tone. We just created a video to help churches understand that we can inadvertently miss out on reaching those who come in through our doors for help. Many churches have learned from this and changed some of their methods to reach people better. Sometimes looking at things from a different perspective helps us see things we do not otherwise. We also are not pushing marketing. We are pushing introspection.
@duckling109876 Wow! curious how this is hypocritical? We just created a video to help churches understand that we can inadvertently miss out on reaching those who come in through our doors for help.
I think this brings up some good points about the way modern Protestant churches are. To me, they just don't seem right. Of course, that's because they're not the true ancient faith that the Apostles spread...
Ragnarok1326 said modern Christianity is like an amusement park. I would have to agree. They do what they can to get people to come and have a good time so they'll come back. That's not what Christianity's about. It's about God.
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
Starbucks should market like 16th century Catholic Church i.e. torturing people who refuse to stop drinking dunkin donuts. A Java Inquisition if you will
I believe in marketing--to an extent--but I think that Christ needs to be first in what people see in a church...on the other hand it is an excellent parody! I have a few friends at church who might actually try and find this ' church ' ;- ) ! Javalaulla!!! We need more humour in the Church!
I feel bad for churches that "market" themselves like this, as if the goal is to increase their numbers and be popular, not to be spiritual nourishing. I have never experienced that myself.. wait, yes I have, and it was pretty weird. But I was just there afterward to meet a friend, not to attend. Thankfully, many churches are not like this.
It disturbs me so much. Not only because he judges the guy hard, but...also because I know it's true...that people do it all the time in the church. It frustrates me.
"Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don't be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned."
"Don't look for shortcuts to God. The market is flooded with surefire, easygoing formulas for a successful life that can be practiced in your spare time. Don't fall for that stuff, even though crowds of people do. The way to life—to God!—is vigorous and requires total attention."
This makes me soo sad, the stigma of church from its weird marketing tactics, has caused Christians to be viewed like this. THIS IS WAY I BREW MY COFFEE AT HOME ;0
why do Churches Market at all? What brings people to churches? People being the church...living Christ like makes people want to know what it's about, To me, Marketing is a business tool, not a ministry tool..just my two cents.
@lazerholt I think you might be confusing marketing for advertising. The umbrella of marketing covers all aspects of communications, including design and "customer" interaction. It is these things the video is trying to enlighten us on. We wholeheartedly agree that Christ is the focus and Christ-changed lives are attractive to others. What sometimes is not attractive, is how we do church. Our goal is to help leaders think introspectively about how they relate to people looking for Christ.
@beyondrelevance Ok. why do churches advertise at all??? what brings people to Churches? people being the church yada yada yada...just my two cents...
@lazerholt I totally agree. Advertising, from my perspective is not fundamentally wrong, its just that the church being the church should be attractive enough. Well said.
@something ummm that's just it church has been one of the biggest business tools for well over a two thousand years. This is joke like all the other smurhes out there
@lazerholt Of coarse churches have to market, they want people to believe in a jewish zombie that will grant all your wishes when you are dead if you just believe. Hell that takes a pretty hard sell....Start when thier young like a tobacco company...god kills millions of people in the bible, its not like it a natural tendacy to like that...So you have to get people to interpret what it actually says. The good thing there are about 40,000 denominations all with a little twist just for you!!!
@hellasow I'm really sorry for whatever the church or people in it might have done to hurt you. I pray that God reveals His true self and nature to you. I hope you will consider that our efforts here (in this video) are to help the church be better. I am hoping this is something you would approve of whether your approve of the church or not.
The problem with this "parable" is that it assumes church as a consumer product. Too many people do think of church that way. Church isn't the best place for someone who's new, searching for God. You learn about God from his word and talking in an individual/small group setting. It's a place for believers to worship and Fellowship together.
@ricktoberfest Are we willing to tell that to all the lost people coming to churches for hope? Go away and find it yourself, then come back. I hope not. I hope we, as churches, can look introspectively at how we connect with visitors—they are coming if we have four walls regardless of what church model we subscribe to. I hope we care enough to connect Christ with them when they come and not just minister unto ourselves.
@ricktoberfest God said, 'what house will you build for me? Heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool.'
Your bodies are the temple of God, and we are supposed to fellowship with the less fortunate, sinners and prisoners. Jesus said, 'it's the sick who needs a doctor.' Churches preach to the choir, telling them things they already (supposly) know. Jesus is the only teacher! Stop building these palaces of a church, catholics did the same, having people look up to money, instead of God.
@ricktoberfest Church doesn't have to be a "consumer product," and a lot of the time it isn't one. Many churches are run by honest individuals who want to help people. But often with the big-time fancy megachurches, so-called faith healers, televangelists, etc., it becomes a sort of commodity. It doesn't have to be that way. Turning it into a business is an insult to the sincere search for truth and meaning.
I get the point and thought there was alot of intricate details and props used. Reminds me of the mega church. God bless and thanks for sharing the vid.
@NUTCASE71733 I don't think the video is making a point about megachurches. I think it is meant for all churches to self-evaluate how they make visitors feel. This can be done poorly or well at any size.
I think this video is making the point that churches sometimes view new people as someone to draw in, and not to really care about. "As long as we have new members, we're growing!" As the church we should not only welcome new people through our doors, but actually care about them. I think this video is talking about how we over-commercialize christianity with, cool t-shirts and fancy bibles and all the other stuff we do, but what we really need to do is go back to the basics of people.
well i say that if ppl come to chruch and have been coming to church for years.....that means it wasn't always weird but due to the fact that ppl tend to change things and make church weird but if u look at the church in the bible a lot of these different rituals were not there....and for addition when the world does these similar things ppl dont trip but due to the difference from church now and from the bible ppl dont kno how to accept it which they shouldnt especially when they never go...
I think the better title would be "What if Starbucks Operated like a Church". If Starbucks marketed like churches, there would be a separate counter for lattes, a separate counter for mochas, and each would have its own logo, tagline, and "feel" (whatever that's supposed to mean). You'd get a free half bag of coffee on the way out, and weekly email updates asking how your coffee has been brewing lately, and giving tips to get that "perfect cup". Let's not forget "Papyrus"...
It was funny, and I can see the parallels between what the film says and how folks act in real life. It reminds me of going to a congregation of my denomination as a young adult. There was security guard who would not let me in, saying I looked too poor to belong. I went home crying. I never went back to the denomination I grew up in. I saw how they treat the poor. I was in graduate school at the time, so money was tight.
So, the implication here is that church should feel more like Starbucks? Please no. While it's certainly true that being this creepy is rather unwise, I don't exactly trust Starbucks or a church shaped like on to provide much towards deepening people's relationship with Christ.
@kindarilwraja Don't think you got the point. For churches, the point is to be introspective to consider how we engage (or don't) visitors. Its a parable.
This is just how I feel every time I go to a church, with the exception one. I refuse to associate myself with any particular church because of this and it's amazing sometimes that I am still a Christian at all. I hold a personal belief that I know would be ridiculed by mainstream Christians, who I personally believe to be very closed-minded...
@orange7blue You say you hold a belief that would be ridiculed by mainstream Christians, and I wonder what that belief is. I would guarantee that your problem is not what Christians say about your "belief" but what the Bible says about your belief. What the Bible calls sin, we as Christians must also call sin. If you look at any religion, you would be able to say they are closed minded because they all have a set of beliefs they hold to be true. Much more close minded outside than inside Church.
@TheIowaporter What you say is true, but you are also assuming that all Christians interpret the Bible the same way. I don't think the religion is closed-minded, but some of the people. My beliefs are unique, but don't matter. These people should not try to "convert" me. I am what I am, I know my options, and I will not change by force. I am ashamed when I hear of Christians that go around trying to convert people who know their options- my grandmother was one of these people.
Great Video!!! Love the creativity!!! Point well made!!! We get caught up in stylistic traditionalism and "doing church" that we can't see the souls for the programs! Love it! Not all ministries are like this..but too many are...and they think they are spiritual because outsiders think they are strange.....we will come off strange enough just being Biblical Christians..but we don't need the added human tradition that clouds the real issues! People need to see JESUS!!! Amen!!! :)
I'm agnostic atheist and I think this is a smart video. I've had similar experiences and know others (atheists and Christians) who've had similar experiences.
@QueenAnime99 An agnostic atheist is an oxymoron! Agnostic says I believe in a "god" of some form, where as an atheist denies any claim or form of "god". Can't be both.
@TheIowaporter An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a higher being. Yes, there are some who deny that a higher being exists, but not all do. An agnostic says "I/We don't know." Basically, an agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a higher being but admits that they don't know if one exists or not. There is also such thing as an agnostic theist. They are the same as an agnostic atheist except they believe in a higher being. Please educate yourself before "correcting" people.
@QueenAnime99 sounds a lot like semantics to me. so you can say "I don't believe in "god" but believe He exists? Makes no sense at all. Why not just believe?
@TheIowaporter I don't know what it "sounds" like; I'm just giving the actual definitions. Are you asking me what I believe? If so, I don't believe in any higher being(s) because I literally can't. However, I'm not saying that a higher being doesn't exist because I really don't know whether one exists or not. That's what it means to be agnostic atheist. If you want to talk about this subject more, you can PM me. This isn't the best place to break everything down. LOL.
@QueenAnime99 I just wanna ask. I'm curious. What do people like you think about supernatural manifestations? Not only God's, such as speaking in tongues, healings, exorcisms, and such, but also things like witchcraft, demon-possessions, and ghosts? These are REAL, tangible things that most people have experienced. How can you not believe in a higher spiritual being, if there's obviously a spiritual world?
@aReLi777 I can only speak for myself, but these things are not obvious to me so I don't believe in them. (I respectfully disagree that these things are "tangible." So far, everything seems subjective and vague.) I will admit that there is stuff that I don't understand, though. In fact, I used to "sort of" believe in ghosts (At that time, I identified as an atheist, too. LOL.) but now I'm more skeptical of their existence. If you want to talk more about this, you can PM me. Good day.
@TheIowaporter I respectfully disagree that an agnostic theist necessarily needs to get more information. And some do know what they believe in. They just admit that they aren't entirely sure about the existence of the higher being they believe in and the characteristics of said being. Glad you are doing research. If you ever want some links, PM me. Good day.
Bleh. I've been raised in church and am very active in my church but I've gotten BEYOND burnt out on the churches that think stretch fabric and coffee bars are what's NECESSARY to bring people to God. As if coffee was more powerful than the Spirit's call and God's plan. This video is funny. Maybe convicting for some. But it just reminds me of the churches I've attended and been a part of like this and it makes me want to call myself something OTHER than "Christian."
@betharoniboo eh, i think that a lot of Congregations add in a coffee bar just because, not because it brings more people to Christ, shoot, i love to sit down with a cup of coffee with friends and discuss the sermon, Fellowship is important, a coffee bar just adds something to it, doesn't take away.
Why is it that all the youtube church/religious/ministry videos always have a block so you can't download and use them ... all the others we can download .. make it a christian one and people want money.
@emailronhughes I don't want money. Its not for sale. You can't buy it. You can play it millions of times though if you want to. Please be nice and don't assume you know people's motives.
@abbeyism Culturally strategic simply means that you can work to create a church culture that is Christ-centered, inviting and one people want to bring their friends to. That's all. Its not as fancy as it sounds.
@GreenChileTuba The video has one intent: help us as churches to consider how we might come across to visitors and thus help us to communicate Christ clearly and genuinely engage those who enter the church's doors. Hopefully, it helps us as the church to self-evaluate how we communicate. Christ is the hope of the world—let us never water this truth down. If you think the attempt was to suggest compromise, my apologies and please consider re-watching it with the original intent in mind.
Um... this is funny... but I'm not sure it's making the point you meant to make...Unless you meant to make the point that churches are creepy... in that case, good job.
@basilsunshine Thanks, the point is for us as churches to self-evaluate and make sure we create a good experience for guests. This bad example is meant as hyperbole to show how the church could look to outsiders if we are not careful.
@basilsunshine I feel churches CAN be creepy in this aspect. I think people get so involved in trying to draw people in, that theres a real lack of genuine Christ-filled worship, growth, etc. Church becomes about entertainment, numbers, etc instead of breaking bread and fellowshipping (learning together, exhorting/encouraging one other, teaching, growing, etc) like the church in Acts.
I totally agree about the "raise your hand if it's your first time" thing. A few months ago I went to a new church and put up my hand for the alter call. I was the only one. The pastor made me come down the front and basically interviewed me in front of everyone. It was VERY uncomfortable. I'm still a Christian now, but I've found a new church. So please, don't embarrass the new people ;)
This is nothing to do with basing you belief in how church treats you! it's about showing people at church how there statergy may scare people away, and maybe improve on bringing people too church instead. It's an outsiders view of how being a newcomer at church may feel.
@chousholder I am not sure you understood what it was about. It is not making fun of the church, it is for the church to help us think about what a visitor sees.
Sad to see how this kind of reminds me of a church I've been too lately. Mind you I'd wished they had served Starbucks coffee! Drinking coffee in some churches is not even allowed or respected for that matter.
It is in some sorts true. But not completely. I think it's ignorant to base your beliefs off the way a church treats you. A true christian will realize that finding a church home is a battle. Should it be? No. But like any other belief, there are people that take advantage of things. I also serve a great enough God that even in the places that have an alter motive as a church, he will come and he will show his power. I serve a great God that I can count on. If you don't have a good church home,
Definitely a challenging video. I'm glad someone is rethinking the standard ways the average church markets itself, treats visitors and presents the gospel.
I gave my life to Jesus 18 years ago - one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. God has changed my life! But I must admit I'm one of those guys who, with a few years as the exception, has really struggled with church attendance. Your video, at least indirectly, touches on some of it.
This is a great video. Actually, too many experiences like this in evangelical churches is a big part of why I started looking for something else. I don't regret it though, because without that experience I might not have joined the Episcopal church, which I love dearly. Of course, there's nothing that keeps mainline churches from being obnoxious in this fashion either.
@beyondrelevance By "gospel walls" I mean creating social classes and terms of acceptability based on the gospel. You're right that the gospel is for anyone but unfortunately is not always treated that way. I am quite grateful to now be part of a church that is not like that and accepts everyone in any form. I guess this subject of accepting peeps into the church is a bit off-topic for the video. It's easy to be vocal about your passions :)
@MindRenewal With all due respect I think being "gospel oriented" is part of the problem. In effort to be a God-centered church I have seen people kicked out of churches because they are dressed too ratty and deny the needy support because the image of the church might be scarred. As a licensed minister I personally am exhausted of this "gospel-centered" approach, but I do see your point. The gospel needs to be the center for sure, I agree, but can we do that without building "gospel walls"?
@Yepitsme82 Wow. I am sorry you have seen those things. I have no idea what you mean by "gospel walls", but I agree that people should not be thrown out of church for ratty attire. I think the whole reason that the gospel is the gospel (meaning "Good News") is that it is a free gift to any who believe—a gift that not even the walls of our past can separate us from.
Even as an atheist I found this funny! Once upon a time, when I thought there actually might be a god, I experienced this kind of approach at several churches. And no, that's not why I no longer believe in god!
The prob with this vid is that it has too much respect for human planning. People cannot make proper Church happen, that requires God. Programs( marketing schemes) that people put together don't really further the work of God. Christ is the head of his church,he is not such an idiot that he needs human help in planning or direction. What really matters is that people listen to God and individually do as he tells them. When that happens the love of God is truly shown and methods no longer matter.
@Miab0711 I don't think it's the video that has respect for human planning. In fact, it seems that's the point of the video. They're satirizing the over-planning and marketing schemes many churches feel they need.
I think that's why I like my little mainline Protestant church. It's more like a little downtown diner than a fancy chain coffeehouse. And NO Papyrus font!
I visited one of those seeker-sensitive churches back in January. It's amazing how accurate this video is. Amazing and sad. They even had greeters wearing these neon vests who opened the car door for me. It was kind of creepy, and all the people who rushed over trying to be all friendly seemed a little fake.
blessings to you beyondrelevance. people are being misinformed on the gospel simply because churches feel numbers are more important than ACTUAL salvations. most churches seem to have a goal of making more churches under THEIR vision this has not equaled more Disciples, just more people numb to Jesus' touch and more division. as a missionary i see very few resources go to the field and most of what does go goes to already highly evangelized nations. let's watch our priorities Matthew 28:19
AFLeybaj 4 days ago
@AFLeybaj Blessings to you. We often do not see what we do not see. Thank you for all you do for the Kingdom and for your challenge for us to look deeper.
beyondrelevance 3 days ago
i'm not sure Jesus would be very pleased with this video. i think he is happy with those who are trying to bring people to his kingdom <3 maybe that's just me :) plus.. we live To please God not men.
thisismyusername3094 6 days ago
@thisismyusername3094 I agree. I think Jesus is very pleased with His church attempting to reach others. If there are things we can do to be better, we should do them. This is not about "pleasing" visitors, it is about "reaching" visitors. I pray we never stop trying to be better at reaching people for Christ. That's what the video is for. I have been blessed by hundreds of churches who have said this video helped them be better at reaching people for Christ.
beyondrelevance 5 days ago
I am not sure how to feel about this video. Like its funny but at the sane time its making fun of how some churches run their show
MrJerBear19 1 week ago
@MrJerBear19 Thanks for the comment. As parable, its intent is not to make fun—but rather to make light of what we often inadvertently do as churches to help us consider the need to be introspective about the culture we create. The goal is to help us, as churches, be better. Sometimes, we have to be absurd to see things in a different light. Thanks so much!
beyondrelevance 1 week ago 3
@MrJerBear19 I can completely understand where you are coming from with that, but, just as beyondrelavance said in his/her reply, that's kind of the point - we need to be able to see ourselves like the rest of the world sees us, especially if we expect to be able to relate to the world or communicate with the rest of the world. I honestly thought this video was hilarious.
niedduster 5 days ago
@niedduster Well said.
beyondrelevance 5 days ago
As much as I trust the sincerity of the makers of this video, the premise itself is flawed. It's important to always remember what a non-Christian might think about church, but Starbucks is a coffee joint and is trying to make money selling a product. Church is something different altogether. I think it would be a lot worse if church were more like Starbucks. And I've known several people who claim to be angry at church hypocrisy, but in reality just have unrealistic expectations.
BardOfShwa 1 week ago
@BardOfShwa Thanks for trusting our intent. We are simply trying to help churches think introspectively about how they might inadvertently mis-connect with visitors. There is no deeper point being made here—certainly no point about a goal to commercialize churches—that's not our agenda in any way.
beyondrelevance 1 week ago
@beyondrelevance That's great, but the message that was communicated to me was that "marketing strategies" are just generally inherently bad or need redirection or something. There's nothing wrong with that, but I would appreciate this video far more if it didn't just stop at pointing out problem, but provided a solution that is a little less abstract than "being like Jesus to the nonbeliever."
BardOfShwa 1 week ago
@BardOfShwa Thanks for asking. At the end (I know its a long video) there is a reference to our blog where we tackle the nuts and bolts of how to be different from the video in practical ways. We felt that a blog was the best way to address the topic in full. Hope you check it out. Many thanks!
beyondrelevance 1 week ago
I've never been to a crazy megachurch so I didn't really get this...
FlowerChild65 1 week ago
@FlowerChild65 Good. Glad to see it does not apply. Believe it or not, the experiences here are not those we have seen in mega-churches, but in normal every day churches. Again, glad you are not seeing any similarities. But for some of us, there are—and we want to help those churches. Thanks!
beyondrelevance 1 week ago
Yep that's church, boy do i not miss that at all. Freaks.
yko487 2 weeks ago
@yko487 If that's the church you remember, we understand why you miss it. However, there are churches that are great. Don't give up. Blessings!
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
@beyondrelevance Oh don't worry, my search for a great church is over - i'm not a christian anymore.
yko487 2 weeks ago
@yko487 Sorry the church missed it with you. I will pray that Christ shows Himself to you another way. One day you might be very helpful at helping the church be better. Blessings to you—wish you well.
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
Ugh. This is so creepy. What you have to understand is, to a non-Christian, this is how it feels to attend a Christian church service. Never mind that you might have your own religious context and you're just visiting, you get singled out and put on the spot and told in no uncertain terms that everything there is The Best And Only. It doesn't matter how pure their intentions are; if they require you to be someone other than your true self in order to be One Of Them, this is how it feels.
unicornbeck 3 weeks ago
@unicornbeck That's what it's like in America. I myself am Atheist, but in Europe there's none of this You better believe this or we'll stuff it down your throat. There's "You better believe this or we ignore you and silently hate you forever"
Koloszrodosthe 2 weeks ago
@Koloszrodosthe Interesting perspective. I hate that churches come across that way. God is much more welcoming than churches often are.
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
@Koloszrodosthe Neither of those sound Christ-like anyway...
KharamelSueno 2 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
@KharamelSueno Well said.
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
I'm uncomfortable with the mocking tone. However, visitors should be welcomed but not put on the spot. And the push for money, especially for a first timer, can be VERY disgusting. On the other hand, face it, churches need funds to operate.
This could be seen as an attempt to simply ridicule Christians and nothing more. If you have a heart, you should be able to see beyond the desperate "marketing" of any given church.
Even the flashiest church has sincere people.
JenniferWizdom 3 weeks ago
@JenniferWizdom Wow!!!! You have totally misunderstood our heart and tone. We just created a video to help churches understand that we can inadvertently miss out on reaching those who come in through our doors for help. Many churches have learned from this and changed some of their methods to reach people better. Sometimes looking at things from a different perspective helps us see things we do not otherwise. We also are not pushing marketing. We are pushing introspection.
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
I loved that the tip jar, at the church of Starbucks, is an empty Folgers container... heh
CateOohAhhHa 3 weeks ago
@CateOohAhhHa Good catch!
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
That was the single most stupid, hypocritical video I have ever seen.
duckling109876 3 weeks ago
@duckling109876 Wow! curious how this is hypocritical? We just created a video to help churches understand that we can inadvertently miss out on reaching those who come in through our doors for help.
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
I can't stand Starbucks either. How can people come up with so many different ways to mess up something so simple?
csnowutube 3 weeks ago
LMAO " Java- lujah "
kaliSidiana 3 weeks ago
this is why i cant stand church
TheThunderGirl1 3 weeks ago 2
@TheThunderGirl1 Don't give up. Not all churches are like this. :)
beyondrelevance 2 weeks ago
OMJ this was brilliant!
BlueWagonTV 3 weeks ago
Yup, it's exactly like that.
averagebear1 3 weeks ago
i thought starbucks was already a cult
alixinthemiddle 4 weeks ago
I think this brings up some good points about the way modern Protestant churches are. To me, they just don't seem right. Of course, that's because they're not the true ancient faith that the Apostles spread...
Ragnarok1326 said modern Christianity is like an amusement park. I would have to agree. They do what they can to get people to come and have a good time so they'll come back. That's not what Christianity's about. It's about God.
oedipusrexsophocles 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
Watch:
" youtube.com/watch?v=YZPmTH6sloo"
"youtube.com/watch?v=lutJYDxP6ys"
"youtube.com/watch?v=R9ike7PKd8U"
Regards.
TrumpetCallofGodLT 1 month ago
Better marketing would help sell more. The coffee will still be crap, but yeah, you're gonna sell more of it.
Meurglys33 1 month ago
Javalujah! XD
GrainghisKhan12 1 month ago
Starbucks should market like 16th century Catholic Church i.e. torturing people who refuse to stop drinking dunkin donuts. A Java Inquisition if you will
GhettoBlaster100 1 month ago
...Why do everyone look so mean in this video?
id493337 1 month ago
Modern Christianity is like an amusment park.
ragnarok1326 1 month ago 2
I believe in marketing--to an extent--but I think that Christ needs to be first in what people see in a church...on the other hand it is an excellent parody! I have a few friends at church who might actually try and find this ' church ' ;- ) ! Javalaulla!!! We need more humour in the Church!
TheGuineagirl101 1 month ago
So true! LOL
rach1and1tiff 1 month ago
I feel bad for churches that "market" themselves like this, as if the goal is to increase their numbers and be popular, not to be spiritual nourishing. I have never experienced that myself.. wait, yes I have, and it was pretty weird. But I was just there afterward to meet a friend, not to attend. Thankfully, many churches are not like this.
ryuuhi11 2 months ago
1:26
It disturbs me so much. Not only because he judges the guy hard, but...also because I know it's true...that people do it all the time in the church. It frustrates me.
SGSHADOWOD 2 months ago
IAVSNF guy looks like Joel Osteen... :o :o :o
jaywbe 2 months ago
And actually the rest of chapter 7 as well...
BboyArts 2 months ago
Matt 7:15-20 (The Message)
"Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don't be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned."
BboyArts 2 months ago
Matt 7:13-14 (The Message)
"Don't look for shortcuts to God. The market is flooded with surefire, easygoing formulas for a successful life that can be practiced in your spare time. Don't fall for that stuff, even though crowds of people do. The way to life—to God!—is vigorous and requires total attention."
BboyArts 2 months ago
This makes me soo sad, the stigma of church from its weird marketing tactics, has caused Christians to be viewed like this. THIS IS WAY I BREW MY COFFEE AT HOME ;0
JessaMesss 3 months ago
I can't step foot in a church building. The different ones my family took me to for 17 years messed it up for me.
This video is a perfect representation of why i can't stand the "church" that meets in a building.
telefender 3 months ago
JAVALUJAH!
420International 3 months ago
I prefer costa.
bssxihaax 3 months ago
why do Churches Market at all? What brings people to churches? People being the church...living Christ like makes people want to know what it's about, To me, Marketing is a business tool, not a ministry tool..just my two cents.
lazerholt 3 months ago 17
@lazerholt I think you might be confusing marketing for advertising. The umbrella of marketing covers all aspects of communications, including design and "customer" interaction. It is these things the video is trying to enlighten us on. We wholeheartedly agree that Christ is the focus and Christ-changed lives are attractive to others. What sometimes is not attractive, is how we do church. Our goal is to help leaders think introspectively about how they relate to people looking for Christ.
beyondrelevance 3 months ago 8
@beyondrelevance Ok. why do churches advertise at all??? what brings people to Churches? people being the church yada yada yada...just my two cents...
lazerholt 3 months ago
@lazerholt I totally agree. Advertising, from my perspective is not fundamentally wrong, its just that the church being the church should be attractive enough. Well said.
beyondrelevance 3 months ago
@something ummm that's just it church has been one of the biggest business tools for well over a two thousand years. This is joke like all the other smurhes out there
jeezusallahchrist 3 months ago
@lazerholt Of coarse churches have to market, they want people to believe in a jewish zombie that will grant all your wishes when you are dead if you just believe. Hell that takes a pretty hard sell....Start when thier young like a tobacco company...god kills millions of people in the bible, its not like it a natural tendacy to like that...So you have to get people to interpret what it actually says. The good thing there are about 40,000 denominations all with a little twist just for you!!!
hellasow 1 month ago
@hellasow I'm really sorry for whatever the church or people in it might have done to hurt you. I pray that God reveals His true self and nature to you. I hope you will consider that our efforts here (in this video) are to help the church be better. I am hoping this is something you would approve of whether your approve of the church or not.
beyondrelevance 1 month ago
Silly , silly, Protestants : /
megaead69 3 months ago 3
Javalujah! Tee hee. (:
IAmSecond30 3 months ago 3
The problem with this "parable" is that it assumes church as a consumer product. Too many people do think of church that way. Church isn't the best place for someone who's new, searching for God. You learn about God from his word and talking in an individual/small group setting. It's a place for believers to worship and Fellowship together.
ricktoberfest 3 months ago 5
@ricktoberfest Are we willing to tell that to all the lost people coming to churches for hope? Go away and find it yourself, then come back. I hope not. I hope we, as churches, can look introspectively at how we connect with visitors—they are coming if we have four walls regardless of what church model we subscribe to. I hope we care enough to connect Christ with them when they come and not just minister unto ourselves.
beyondrelevance 3 months ago 3
@beyondrelevance boooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing!
beloit22 3 months ago
@ricktoberfest God said, 'what house will you build for me? Heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool.'
Your bodies are the temple of God, and we are supposed to fellowship with the less fortunate, sinners and prisoners. Jesus said, 'it's the sick who needs a doctor.' Churches preach to the choir, telling them things they already (supposly) know. Jesus is the only teacher! Stop building these palaces of a church, catholics did the same, having people look up to money, instead of God.
MurMurVideos 2 months ago
@ricktoberfest Church doesn't have to be a "consumer product," and a lot of the time it isn't one. Many churches are run by honest individuals who want to help people. But often with the big-time fancy megachurches, so-called faith healers, televangelists, etc., it becomes a sort of commodity. It doesn't have to be that way. Turning it into a business is an insult to the sincere search for truth and meaning.
Megaritz 2 months ago
Nice!
Godslilgirl092 3 months ago
I get the point and thought there was alot of intricate details and props used. Reminds me of the mega church. God bless and thanks for sharing the vid.
Excellence337 3 months ago
@Excellence337 Huge thanks!!
beyondrelevance 3 months ago
@Excellence337 This is NOT how my megachurch is.
XxSwEgHeImEr911Xx 3 months ago
@XxSwEgHeImEr911Xx Thats good to here. ;)
Excellence337 3 months ago
Idea is great, actors are great too, but montage and direction is poor.
It felt like food without proper amount of salt or without salt at all.
Keep on doing this.
rycka1983 3 months ago
@rycka1983 Perhaps the point of the video is to make you feel awkward. Like bland food on purpose. Many thanks!
beyondrelevance 3 months ago
...except coffee is real
mts198 3 months ago
Taste the bean; appreciate the bean; LIVE THE BEAN !!!
kodachromefilm 3 months ago
This is essentially what the megachurches are like. They're not just indoctrination centers but major corporations.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago 4
@NUTCASE71733 I don't think the video is making a point about megachurches. I think it is meant for all churches to self-evaluate how they make visitors feel. This can be done poorly or well at any size.
beyondrelevance 3 months ago 2
@beyondrelevance
I know I know, but mega churches tend to fit the bill of big business more than a simple small town chaple.
NUTCASE71733 3 months ago
I think this video is making the point that churches sometimes view new people as someone to draw in, and not to really care about. "As long as we have new members, we're growing!" As the church we should not only welcome new people through our doors, but actually care about them. I think this video is talking about how we over-commercialize christianity with, cool t-shirts and fancy bibles and all the other stuff we do, but what we really need to do is go back to the basics of people.
losingmymarbles154 4 months ago
Javalujah lmao!!
strawberrypepper18 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
boring
Snutih 4 months ago
boring
Snutih 4 months ago
"Raise 'em nice and high!"
"Javalujah!"
lmao.
null1834 4 months ago 4
Um, I think the point is to demonstrate how ridiculous churches can be. Religion is craziness!
angelcakes1091 4 months ago
Funny video... now do you have one that shows how it should be?
Jennersville 4 months ago
well i say that if ppl come to chruch and have been coming to church for years.....that means it wasn't always weird but due to the fact that ppl tend to change things and make church weird but if u look at the church in the bible a lot of these different rituals were not there....and for addition when the world does these similar things ppl dont trip but due to the difference from church now and from the bible ppl dont kno how to accept it which they shouldnt especially when they never go...
jazillac 4 months ago
I love this video
JesseEckel 4 months ago
Javalujah!! gets me everytime LOL
PH03N1XM4N 4 months ago
Well done video. Funny, but sad at how close it hits to home.
mochamoments 4 months ago
I think the better title would be "What if Starbucks Operated like a Church". If Starbucks marketed like churches, there would be a separate counter for lattes, a separate counter for mochas, and each would have its own logo, tagline, and "feel" (whatever that's supposed to mean). You'd get a free half bag of coffee on the way out, and weekly email updates asking how your coffee has been brewing lately, and giving tips to get that "perfect cup". Let's not forget "Papyrus"...
ClayCafe 4 months ago
It was funny, and I can see the parallels between what the film says and how folks act in real life. It reminds me of going to a congregation of my denomination as a young adult. There was security guard who would not let me in, saying I looked too poor to belong. I went home crying. I never went back to the denomination I grew up in. I saw how they treat the poor. I was in graduate school at the time, so money was tight.
Judy3946 4 months ago
So, the implication here is that church should feel more like Starbucks? Please no. While it's certainly true that being this creepy is rather unwise, I don't exactly trust Starbucks or a church shaped like on to provide much towards deepening people's relationship with Christ.
kindarilwraja 4 months ago
@kindarilwraja Don't think you got the point. For churches, the point is to be introspective to consider how we engage (or don't) visitors. Its a parable.
beyondrelevance 4 months ago 8
This is how it is every time I visit a new church.
Mrjhardy00 4 months ago
This is what happen in my church...
JiaJin1993 4 months ago
This is just how I feel every time I go to a church, with the exception one. I refuse to associate myself with any particular church because of this and it's amazing sometimes that I am still a Christian at all. I hold a personal belief that I know would be ridiculed by mainstream Christians, who I personally believe to be very closed-minded...
orange7blue 5 months ago
@orange7blue You say you hold a belief that would be ridiculed by mainstream Christians, and I wonder what that belief is. I would guarantee that your problem is not what Christians say about your "belief" but what the Bible says about your belief. What the Bible calls sin, we as Christians must also call sin. If you look at any religion, you would be able to say they are closed minded because they all have a set of beliefs they hold to be true. Much more close minded outside than inside Church.
TheIowaporter 5 months ago
@TheIowaporter What you say is true, but you are also assuming that all Christians interpret the Bible the same way. I don't think the religion is closed-minded, but some of the people. My beliefs are unique, but don't matter. These people should not try to "convert" me. I am what I am, I know my options, and I will not change by force. I am ashamed when I hear of Christians that go around trying to convert people who know their options- my grandmother was one of these people.
orange7blue 5 months ago
@orange7blue I feel the exact same way. I am a huge proponent of religious/spiritual beliefs being personal and not forced upon people. Good day.
QueenAnime99 4 months ago
Great Video!!! Love the creativity!!! Point well made!!! We get caught up in stylistic traditionalism and "doing church" that we can't see the souls for the programs! Love it! Not all ministries are like this..but too many are...and they think they are spiritual because outsiders think they are strange.....we will come off strange enough just being Biblical Christians..but we don't need the added human tradition that clouds the real issues! People need to see JESUS!!! Amen!!! :)
kenpca 5 months ago 3
@kenpca Huge thanks!!!
beyondrelevance 5 months ago
So much comic sans
mimsredjelly 5 months ago
sometimes i lay on the floor and pretend im a potato
xZaaap 5 months ago
Am I missing something? I have never been to a church that is like this. I hope this isn't the stereotype that they have.
clearlycolorful 5 months ago
I'm agnostic atheist and I think this is a smart video. I've had similar experiences and know others (atheists and Christians) who've had similar experiences.
QueenAnime99 5 months ago
@QueenAnime99 An agnostic atheist is an oxymoron! Agnostic says I believe in a "god" of some form, where as an atheist denies any claim or form of "god". Can't be both.
TheIowaporter 5 months ago
@TheIowaporter An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a higher being. Yes, there are some who deny that a higher being exists, but not all do. An agnostic says "I/We don't know." Basically, an agnostic atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a higher being but admits that they don't know if one exists or not. There is also such thing as an agnostic theist. They are the same as an agnostic atheist except they believe in a higher being. Please educate yourself before "correcting" people.
QueenAnime99 5 months ago
@QueenAnime99 sounds a lot like semantics to me. so you can say "I don't believe in "god" but believe He exists? Makes no sense at all. Why not just believe?
TheIowaporter 5 months ago
@TheIowaporter I don't know what it "sounds" like; I'm just giving the actual definitions. Are you asking me what I believe? If so, I don't believe in any higher being(s) because I literally can't. However, I'm not saying that a higher being doesn't exist because I really don't know whether one exists or not. That's what it means to be agnostic atheist. If you want to talk about this subject more, you can PM me. This isn't the best place to break everything down. LOL.
QueenAnime99 5 months ago
@QueenAnime99 I just wanna ask. I'm curious. What do people like you think about supernatural manifestations? Not only God's, such as speaking in tongues, healings, exorcisms, and such, but also things like witchcraft, demon-possessions, and ghosts? These are REAL, tangible things that most people have experienced. How can you not believe in a higher spiritual being, if there's obviously a spiritual world?
aReLi777 4 months ago
@aReLi777 I can only speak for myself, but these things are not obvious to me so I don't believe in them. (I respectfully disagree that these things are "tangible." So far, everything seems subjective and vague.) I will admit that there is stuff that I don't understand, though. In fact, I used to "sort of" believe in ghosts (At that time, I identified as an atheist, too. LOL.) but now I'm more skeptical of their existence. If you want to talk more about this, you can PM me. Good day.
QueenAnime99 4 months ago
@QueenAnime99 an agnostic theist on the other hand just needs to get more info. Belief but just not sure in what. Much time spent in research here!
TheIowaporter 5 months ago
@TheIowaporter I respectfully disagree that an agnostic theist necessarily needs to get more information. And some do know what they believe in. They just admit that they aren't entirely sure about the existence of the higher being they believe in and the characteristics of said being. Glad you are doing research. If you ever want some links, PM me. Good day.
QueenAnime99 5 months ago
This was brilliant! :o
Ninjasnipes7 5 months ago
No wonder I do not drink coffee... ;O) Plus it stains your teeth...
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 6 months ago
Javalujah! LOL
GarieNotGary 6 months ago 2
Bleh. I've been raised in church and am very active in my church but I've gotten BEYOND burnt out on the churches that think stretch fabric and coffee bars are what's NECESSARY to bring people to God. As if coffee was more powerful than the Spirit's call and God's plan. This video is funny. Maybe convicting for some. But it just reminds me of the churches I've attended and been a part of like this and it makes me want to call myself something OTHER than "Christian."
betharoniboo 6 months ago 5
@betharoniboo Good news that many churches are waking up to an authentic focus on Christ and a heart for those visiting. Keep up the good work!
beyondrelevance 6 months ago 3
@betharoniboo eh, i think that a lot of Congregations add in a coffee bar just because, not because it brings more people to Christ, shoot, i love to sit down with a cup of coffee with friends and discuss the sermon, Fellowship is important, a coffee bar just adds something to it, doesn't take away.
Isakusensei 3 months ago
Why is it that all the youtube church/religious/ministry videos always have a block so you can't download and use them ... all the others we can download .. make it a christian one and people want money.
emailronhughes 6 months ago
@emailronhughes I don't want money. Its not for sale. You can't buy it. You can play it millions of times though if you want to. Please be nice and don't assume you know people's motives.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago
I hear "culturally strategic" and I see "red flag".
abbeyism 6 months ago
@abbeyism Culturally strategic simply means that you can work to create a church culture that is Christ-centered, inviting and one people want to bring their friends to. That's all. Its not as fancy as it sounds.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago
sounds a lot like the whole seeker sensitive garbage that is in many of the churches today.
GreenChileTuba 6 months ago
@GreenChileTuba The video has one intent: help us as churches to consider how we might come across to visitors and thus help us to communicate Christ clearly and genuinely engage those who enter the church's doors. Hopefully, it helps us as the church to self-evaluate how we communicate. Christ is the hope of the world—let us never water this truth down. If you think the attempt was to suggest compromise, my apologies and please consider re-watching it with the original intent in mind.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago 4
@beyondrelevance ggod word
rubindiego 5 months ago
Um... this is funny... but I'm not sure it's making the point you meant to make...Unless you meant to make the point that churches are creepy... in that case, good job.
basilsunshine 6 months ago 18
@basilsunshine Thanks, the point is for us as churches to self-evaluate and make sure we create a good experience for guests. This bad example is meant as hyperbole to show how the church could look to outsiders if we are not careful.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago 14
@beyondrelevance Trust me... this isn't hyperbole. At all. Sadly, it's pretty dead on.
orange7blue 5 months ago
@basilsunshine I feel churches CAN be creepy in this aspect. I think people get so involved in trying to draw people in, that theres a real lack of genuine Christ-filled worship, growth, etc. Church becomes about entertainment, numbers, etc instead of breaking bread and fellowshipping (learning together, exhorting/encouraging one other, teaching, growing, etc) like the church in Acts.
mandymomdotcom 6 months ago 2
@basilsunshine It's a parody of the way many churches are. It's making the point perfectly, I find it strange that you didn't understand that.
31024scot 3 months ago
@31024scot I find it strange that you don't understand my point either, but that's life.
basilsunshine 3 months ago
@basilsunshine No need to get snarky
31024scot 3 months ago
I totally agree about the "raise your hand if it's your first time" thing. A few months ago I went to a new church and put up my hand for the alter call. I was the only one. The pastor made me come down the front and basically interviewed me in front of everyone. It was VERY uncomfortable. I'm still a Christian now, but I've found a new church. So please, don't embarrass the new people ;)
AndrewPPrice 6 months ago
@AndrewPPrice Congratulations and welcome to the family! Thanks for the insight.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago
@AndrewPPrice I agree! Welcome to the Family :) & ur right. Sometimes people don't realize how that can just be uncomfortable.
JESUSRockedMyWorld 6 months ago
Going to church is a lot easier than being the church.
accurateled 6 months ago
this is such a good insight. puts a whole different perspective on life
310suz 6 months ago
But id do agree that God is behine and it all so whether they come to church initially or later it's all in God's hands.
rochelle900 6 months ago
This is nothing to do with basing you belief in how church treats you! it's about showing people at church how there statergy may scare people away, and maybe improve on bringing people too church instead. It's an outsiders view of how being a newcomer at church may feel.
rochelle900 6 months ago
I couldn't finish watching this...it was horrible! sacrilegious baloney!
chousholder 6 months ago
@chousholder I am not sure you understood what it was about. It is not making fun of the church, it is for the church to help us think about what a visitor sees.
beyondrelevance 6 months ago
@beyondrelevance Then is the message that we should market the church like a Starbucks markets it's coffee? Just askin.....
Headswithsacks 6 months ago
@imallama I think it was a stock audio track that we licensed to use. No idea which or from where. Hope that helps!
beyondrelevance 6 months ago
SO true! Some churches really do scare people away this way!
PDmylove 7 months ago
Javalujah!!!!!!!
AndrewBainn 7 months ago
Sad to see how this kind of reminds me of a church I've been too lately. Mind you I'd wished they had served Starbucks coffee! Drinking coffee in some churches is not even allowed or respected for that matter.
rockstaryeayeayea 7 months ago
It is in some sorts true. But not completely. I think it's ignorant to base your beliefs off the way a church treats you. A true christian will realize that finding a church home is a battle. Should it be? No. But like any other belief, there are people that take advantage of things. I also serve a great enough God that even in the places that have an alter motive as a church, he will come and he will show his power. I serve a great God that I can count on. If you don't have a good church home,
MRidgeway04 7 months ago
omg@ the "information cards" this video is so on point its not even funny
character4thought 7 months ago
Starbuck's DOES market like a church! That's why I don't go to Church!
CuriousKimification 7 months ago
@CuriousKimification The church, like Starbucks, does offer Free WiFi. Can't go wrong with that.
lakebay972 7 months ago
"Coffee is good - all the time!" lol
BibleStudy888 7 months ago
Definitely a challenging video. I'm glad someone is rethinking the standard ways the average church markets itself, treats visitors and presents the gospel.
I gave my life to Jesus 18 years ago - one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. God has changed my life! But I must admit I'm one of those guys who, with a few years as the exception, has really struggled with church attendance. Your video, at least indirectly, touches on some of it.
Keep up the good work!
kisscactus 7 months ago
@kisscactus Huge thanks!
beyondrelevance 7 months ago
@beyondrelevance Amen bro.
Yepitsme82 7 months ago
This is a great video. Actually, too many experiences like this in evangelical churches is a big part of why I started looking for something else. I don't regret it though, because without that experience I might not have joined the Episcopal church, which I love dearly. Of course, there's nothing that keeps mainline churches from being obnoxious in this fashion either.
uemusicman 8 months ago
Comment removed
uemusicman 8 months ago
@beyondrelevance By "gospel walls" I mean creating social classes and terms of acceptability based on the gospel. You're right that the gospel is for anyone but unfortunately is not always treated that way. I am quite grateful to now be part of a church that is not like that and accepts everyone in any form. I guess this subject of accepting peeps into the church is a bit off-topic for the video. It's easy to be vocal about your passions :)
Yepitsme82 8 months ago
@Yepitsme82 Understood. Let's continue to fight for the Gospel being preached without man-made walls of any kind!
beyondrelevance 8 months ago
@MindRenewal With all due respect I think being "gospel oriented" is part of the problem. In effort to be a God-centered church I have seen people kicked out of churches because they are dressed too ratty and deny the needy support because the image of the church might be scarred. As a licensed minister I personally am exhausted of this "gospel-centered" approach, but I do see your point. The gospel needs to be the center for sure, I agree, but can we do that without building "gospel walls"?
Yepitsme82 8 months ago
@Yepitsme82 Wow. I am sorry you have seen those things. I have no idea what you mean by "gospel walls", but I agree that people should not be thrown out of church for ratty attire. I think the whole reason that the gospel is the gospel (meaning "Good News") is that it is a free gift to any who believe—a gift that not even the walls of our past can separate us from.
beyondrelevance 8 months ago
Even as an atheist I found this funny! Once upon a time, when I thought there actually might be a god, I experienced this kind of approach at several churches. And no, that's not why I no longer believe in god!
DerekBly57 8 months ago
@DerekBly57 Sorry you ran into this poor delivery of church. Blessings on your journey—may God find you when you least expect Him.
beyondrelevance 8 months ago
@beyondrelevance Or when I least expect HER! Thanks, but I don't think our paths are likely to cross.
DerekBly57 7 months ago
The prob with this vid is that it has too much respect for human planning. People cannot make proper Church happen, that requires God. Programs( marketing schemes) that people put together don't really further the work of God. Christ is the head of his church,he is not such an idiot that he needs human help in planning or direction. What really matters is that people listen to God and individually do as he tells them. When that happens the love of God is truly shown and methods no longer matter.
Miab0711 8 months ago
@Miab0711 I don't think it's the video that has respect for human planning. In fact, it seems that's the point of the video. They're satirizing the over-planning and marketing schemes many churches feel they need.
TBAWriter 8 months ago
I think that's why I like my little mainline Protestant church. It's more like a little downtown diner than a fancy chain coffeehouse. And NO Papyrus font!
actionsub 8 months ago
I've been to too many churches like this. That's why I went back to the Catholic church Lol atleast I know what to expect!
baggagequeen 8 months ago
I visited one of those seeker-sensitive churches back in January. It's amazing how accurate this video is. Amazing and sad. They even had greeters wearing these neon vests who opened the car door for me. It was kind of creepy, and all the people who rushed over trying to be all friendly seemed a little fake.
MindRenewal 8 months ago
I think it's funny that their tip jar is a Foldgers can. Hah.
hpav92 8 months ago
So true it hurts!
al1albrown 8 months ago