Shame that more Christians don't have the education to fully understand the importance of the Saints to their own lives. It is very likely that they wouldn't posses Christianity at all right now if it wern't for the Love, Obedience and Grace of men like St Francis who, instead of abandoning the Church for her shortcomings, obeyed Christ to remain ever obediant to the Church which He
founded upon earth. This to me is the centerpiece of Franciscanism, that
Wise observations! Francis was indeed a rebel in his own time...and over 800 years later he continues to be. He sought change, but from within. How did he do that? I think a line often attributed to him said it best.."Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary use words"
Christians should not offend Christ by turning on one another...none of us has the full understanding of the faith we have been given as grace.
However, the ONLY way one can speak ill of St. Francis, Maximillian Kolbe, Anthony of Padua, Padre Pio, etc,. is by never having met them through reading about their lives in Christ. Wonderful friends of God who knew, loved and served the Lord God faithfully...& we try to learn our best.
I have been discerning a vocation to the Secular Franciscans for years now.
RE: Different Christian traditions, once the disciples came to Jesus to tell Him that others, who were not of their group, were preaching and exorcising in His name, should they tell them not to? And Jesus said, leave them alone for no one can do things in MY NAME and then turn on me.
AND, we ALL follow the 10 Mosaic Commandments, and #8 says to not bear false witness against another with the intent to harm...
thanks. It is loud, come to think of it! I think that perhaps the clock (a cuckoo clock at that) may be a reminder that we have very little time on this earth ;)
wow, I just read most of the 115 comments below and must commend you on your incredible patience and humility in the face of some rather intense conversation. Good job.
My favourite comment from you was: "I am a poor example, probably the most fault ridden Franciscan I know" Proof to me that you are truly Franciscan.
I am currently in the inquiry stage and am preparing for candidacy (in your Region I might add). I pray that I am granted the same peace you have been blessed with.
Thanks for your comment, but I should add I am still a poor example. And you will be attacked (as per the comments on the video), because even today Franciscans are seen as rebels. Yet I take solace in the words of Francis who began the day by saying "let us begin again, for until know we have done nothing"
May the Holy Spirit gently guide on the path which God has laid out for you. Surrender to His will.
I am indeed in Trillium. Will try to send you a private email with other details but if you have the lspring issue of the Good News Report you will find me listed on the last page under "Re-forming Fraternity"
I am well aware of the attacks that are forthcoming. Have been suffering ridicule for years since my spiritual re-awakening but that's another (long) story. Peace br
He wants you to order the Holy Order of Jesus....THE JESUITS!!! Those Jesuits are so clever they even have the fundies working for them! ;>) God bless!
"You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life. I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you."
If you were truly a "Bible Believing Christian" you would not be so full of hate and bigotry. Jesus said to love our enemies and to pray for those who persecute you
This is what we believe: we observe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ by following the example of Saint Francis of Assisi, who made Christ the inspiration and the center of his life with God and people.... We devote ourselves especially to careful reading of the gospel, going from gospel to life and life to the gospel.
Now, if you had truly informed yourself you would know this. Clearly you haven't.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
mapollo, you are following the path of a man who had the stigmata? oh boy! if he was anything like Pio, then Francis also was an Idol worshiper... just warning you!
fantastic video! and congratulations to u on becoming a secular franciscan! its a beautiful thing to see that lifes journey has led u to peace & happiness. and what better role model do we have then St. Francis. God bless u !!
Artcle 4 continued: "Christ, the gift of the Father's love (got that one right) is the way to Him (right again), the Truth into which the Holy Spirit leads us...Secular Franciscans should devote themselves especially to careful reading of the gospel, going from gospel to life and life to the gospel." If that's correct, mapollo, what about Acts 16:31 - "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." -and all those other verses I gave to you over at "The Truth about Catholics"? Rom. 8:1-2 etc
If you read the Bible, then why did you think Paul (who wrote most of the New Testament) wrote "faith without works is dead"? It was in James.
Acts 16:31 - Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. -why do you think that verse IS? How can that verse exist? What about John 5:24 - "He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS ETERNAL LIFE, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." -what about that? IT IS THE WORD OF GOD! What do you say?
Works is the outcome of faith. Thus if you only have faith, but nothing to show for it, your faith is dead. Works do not produce faith nor grace. We believe that we can do nothing to merit God's grace. Thus Francis believe he was a worthless speck of dust not worthy. He began each day saying "Today we begin again, for until now we have done nothing".
We believe all of that. You believe we think otherwise.
Because faith is faith. Works, or more accuratly glorifying God, comes AFTER salvation; faith is a split-second decision that gives all the credit to God for providing salvation. "Works" is not the "outcome" of faith, it is a RESULT of
1.learning the Word. ACCURATELY.
2.applying it to your life.
This involves a great deal. We must develop in our soul - 1.frame of reference 2.memory center 3.vocabulary 4.catagorical storage - all having to do with learning God's Word. This glorifies God.
""Works" is not the "outcome" of faith, it is a RESULT of "
Semantics are not germane to this, none the less James 2 says "You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works."
We have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2). You can memorize scripture to your heart's content, but context is what counts.
Obviously we are not saved by faith alone, or it would state this in the bible. It DOES tell us that we are NOT justified by faith alone. You seem to be taking the bible out of context. This is a good reason why Catholics have a catechism....and also a reason why there is and always has been one Catholic Church and countless thousands of other religions popping up every year.
I am very familiar with Francis as such I see in your assumptions and conjectures much room for needed study. You remind me of one of the four blind men touching a different part of an elephant, and then asked to describe what creature stood before them. Each had a different answer. You seem to be doing the same. But I appreciate your questions none the less.
The current "Rule" was given by Pope Paul VI in 1978 with the Apostolic letter "Seraphicus Patriarcha". Article 4: "The rule and life of the Secular Franciscan is this: To observe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ by following the example of St. Francis of Assisi, who made Christ the inspiration and the center of his life with God and people." St. Francis didn't, he emphasized "penance" as the way to love God. The Bible IS the MIND OF CHRIST - the whole Bible.
The reason is lack of thorough knowledge and application of the Word, due to things like the Latin Vulgate (horrible mistranslation of the Bible in the old RCC), and legalism (the arrogance of man focusing on gaining points with God rather than accepting and being oriented to God's grace). When anyone thinks their efforts "combine" with God's grace for salvation, that negates God's grace. Simple. Faith+works is not faith, it's works. You believe that your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL
Do you or do you not belive in salvation through faith? "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved". Catholics do not believe this. They add things to salvation like "making the faith real". THATS WORKS.
"You believe your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL"
To which I said "We believe that we can do nothing to merit God's grace. Thus Francis believe he was a worthless speck of dust not worthy. He began each day saying "Today we begin again, for until now we have done nothing"."
We have nothing of ourselves to give back to God which is worthy. Works do not get you to heaven. But I suspect you wish me to say otherwise.
I will let Jesus answer for me, since He is my God & my All: "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children,you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me."
A person who is instantly "saved"; accepting Jesus into your heart and believing in him for instant salvation is no where in the bible. What happens to the man who believes in the Lord and is "saved" but falls into serious sin by murdering someone and then dies while driving home, not repenting of what he did? Does he deserve heaven? How about the woman who does not forgive her enemies but was "saved"? Does she deserve heaven? Romans 2 - "God..will render to each one according to his deeds"
salient points :) . 'Once saved, always saved' is not to be found in scripture, nor is the concept of sola scriptura, which seems to be connected with the idea of 'faith alone', the word 'alone' being added by Luther.
quoting mapollo - "Once saved, always saved is not to be found in the Bible." Yes it is. "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." -Rom. 8:38-39. PAUL WROTE THAT, mapollo. "In Christ" refers always to those who believe in Christ.
Yes, the Bible does speak of salvation as a past tense event i.e. Ephe. 2:8-9. But Scripture also speaks of salvation as a present tense event. Phill. 2:12, Paul told us in strong words to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Can we lose it? Paul spoke about the 'obedience of faith in Rom. 1:5, 16:26.
It is not enough that one call Jesus Lord, for, as he said, "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21; cf. Matt. 10:33, 18:35). If we are disobedient, God will "take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city" (Rev 22:19).
Just because one may choose to no longer hold fast to what was freely given does not mean that you were ever capable of earning what was given to you in the first place. The same is true of earthly sonship—it cannot be earned. But if you were adopted, you would be free to run away as a prodigal son and lose your inheritance.
The concept of 'once saved, always saved' is relatively new. The first person to espouse the idea of "once saved, always saved" was John Calvin (1700's i believe). Even Martin Luther didn't subscribe to the theory. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin, as John spoke about in 1 John 5:16--17.
In the first century, the Didache, commonly known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, said "Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).
In the second century, Irenaeus reaffirms this belief. I haven't check Ignatius but I believe he said something similar. He was a student of the Apostle John and tradition has it he was one the children held and blessed by Jesus. In any case, this consistent testimony has been given from the dawn of Christianity until today, with no suggestion of "once saved, always saved" found on the lips of any Christian before Calvin.
"The concept of 'once saved, always saved' is relatively new." -quoting mapollo. Tell that to PAUL who wrote, TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" -Rom. 8:1 OR even to CHRIST Himself who SAID - "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live [eternal] even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." -John 11:25
Salvation is not mentioned in 1 John 5:16-17. "Sin unto death" in that verse refers to reversionism. "Death" here is the Greek "thanatos" which mearly means the death of the body, not spiritual death. Even we sin horribly, we do not loose salvation. 1 John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know you have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." You've to look at the whole passage.
The "will of My Father"...here we go again, mapollo, hurling verses..."He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement [eternital], but has passed out of death [spiritual] into life [eternal]." The will of the Father IS believing in His Son for salvation. "There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Rev. 22:19 has to do with "leaving out" parts of, or ignoring parts of the Word of God.
"The belief of Christians until Calvin is contrary to what you're saying." -quoting mapollo. Not it isn't. Remember, 30+ yrs I've studied the ORIGINAL LANGUAGES, Greek and Hebrew and a little Aramaic that the Bible was ORIGINALLY written in. THAT is what I base my belief on -THE WORD of GOD written down and completed TWO THOUSAND YEARS ago. I have never belonged to any denomination; I want to be polite, but I must say that religion is man-made; the Word alone is God-breathed. My honest thoughts.
Again, it's a case of semantics, as far as I am concerned. A non-denominational stance is, by action, a denomination by default. The same can be said of atheists. Regarding different languages and translations, I'm sure you are aware of the dangers of word for word translation, and the importance of philology in that regard. As a student of history&anthropology, I am well aware of the dangers of subjectivity, irregardless of good intentions.
Yes, I am aware of "word-for-word" translation. The relatively new NIV version of the Bible is a good example of what can go wrong with "word-for-word". Isagogics, catagorical, exegetical translation from the Greek and Hebrew is the way to go.
"The belief of Christians until Calvin is contrary to what you are saying." No, it isn't. Christians were Christians, and as you say you are a "student of history" you should know that. Luther WAS NOT the "inventor" of "faith alone in Christ alone". The Bible states it. I've already given you dozens of verses that support this. The RCC had become so corrupt, executing anyone who possessed a translation other than the Latin Vulgate, that Luther put it as plainly as he could - look at history.
Christianity has been under attack by religion since it's inception. Gnosticism comes to mind -popular in the Middle East and the Mediterranean regions in the second, third centuries. Some say it pre-dates the completed Cannon of Scripture. When Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire (fourth century) it occaisioned the beginning of a tyranical, bloody advent in Catholicism. Throughout history the infallible WORD OF GOD has survived - God is omnipotent - Christianity is CHRIST
Again, friend, you are taking the bible out of context and using it to fulfill your point. You keep quoting the "saved" verses with no regard to the many on works. I don't need to remind you about the 2nd chapter of James. Just out of curiosity, and not to "one-up" you, but who taught you in "once saved, always saved?" Obviously as an adult you reasoned this yourself, but there must be a background. I was baptized Lutheran myself - pastors abound in my family and I am the only Catholic.
jmkeller - you say I'm not quoting the verses on works. Here's one - "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; and not of WORKS, lest any man should boast." -Ephesians 2:8-9. I quote the "saved" verses because they have to do with salvation. Duh. By the way, whenever the Bible states "in Christ" it is refering to those who believe in Christ - look at the ENDING of Romans 8:38-39. We are justified when God imputs His righteousness at salvation.
I've got to hand it to you, mapollo, there aren't many verses that seem to contradict Acts 16:31 but you find them! Phil.2:12 - you've got to look at the Greek word for "work out" and "own". "Work out" is katergazomai, which means to "work out from something else". "Own" is heautou, which means himself, herself, itself, themselves as is, as they are. So Phl 2:12..."work, from [or based on] your own [already established] salvation with fear [reverance] and trembling [has to do with humility].
Brother - this passage from scripture has nothing to do with "once saved, always saved". Again, this is out of context. God will always love us. Those in the faith and athiests too. Key word is LOVE, which is different from justification.
jmkeller - you are right about one thing. "Inviting Christ into your heart" IS NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE. The word "heart" in the Bible refers to our soul, not the physiological pump. The Word of God describes the condition of our souls as a "sewer" before we believe in Christ. We don't invite Christ ANYWHERE.
"A person who is instantly 'saved'...believing in him for instant salvation is nowhere in the bible." -quoting jmkeller. Yes it is. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." -Acts 16:31 "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." -Gal. 3:26 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life.." -John 3:36 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; and not of works, lest any man should boast." -Eph. 2:8-9. John 5:24, etc.
What I am referring to is the many pastors and preachers who announce to the crowd: "Who would like to stand up and receive Jesus today?" They come forward, the pastor puts a hand on the head and salvation pours forth. This is what I have a problem with. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit is active during this time - a seed planted. No arguement there. But we need to stop with this cookie-cutter salvation.
"We need to stop with this cookie-cutter salvation." I couldn't agree with you more, jmkeller. You must take the Word, every bit of it, as God-breathed. "Study to show thyself approved unto God" (2 Tim.). While verses like Gal. 3:26, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.", are clear and "sharper than any sword", to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" in it's entirety you MUST USE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! This is an ABSOLUTE. So is salvation through Christ (John 10:28).
quoting jmkeller - "What happens to the man who believes in the Lord and is "saved" but falls into serious sin by murdering someone and then dies while driving home, not repenting of what he did?" Good question. We do nothing for salvation; we can do nothing to loose it. God is omniscient, omnipotent. "And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and NO ONE shall snatch them out of My hand." -John 10:28. NO ONE. Not even ourselves. His discipline HURTS!!! But, HE KEEPS HIS WORD.
We can do nothing to lose it? This reasoning just seems so shaky, doesn't it? If you were the God of all creation and one of the humans (image of God) was "saved" and then lived the rest of his life in sin (purposefully denying you), why would you want him in heaven? It's obvious he doesn't want to go there anymore.
This is why we talk about God's grace - and the reasons for mortal sin. There are sins in this world that are detrimental to our soul.
Anyways, the "Secular Franciscan Order" looks to me like a form of Apostolic Succesion, only on a much smaller scale.
By the way, mapollo, your friend stevesilvia has re-admitted my posts on "The Truth about Catholics", a day after deleting them.
"THE WORD OF GOD is alive and powerfull, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of the soul and the spirit, and of the joints of the marrow, and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart." -Hebrews 4:12
"Anyways, the "Secular Franciscan Order" looks to me like a form of Apostolic Succesion"
Now you're delving into the fantasy. You are mistaken. As to your messages on Steve's site, once they are deleted, they are gone. So i'm not sure what you are talking about. Steve and I have not discussed you, which may shock your ego.
I did not say you and steve discussed me - I said that three or four of my posts had been deleted (as you acknowledged, even explained why, as if you knew), and a day later they were back. They are. All the ones where I gave the verses Paul wrote about salvation. Look at comments under "The Truth About Catholics" , steve's video, and you will see. Also, you're the one with an ego. I wrote, "Secular Franciscan Order looks to me like a FORM of Apostolic Succesion, only on a MUCH SMALLER scale."
I don't think youtube works the way you described it. Once the comments are deleted, they are gone.I also had difficulty finding my own comments but youtube hadn't sorted them out yet. Perhaps that is what happened to yours. Regarding ego & apostolic succession, I am merely revealing to you what I know as the truth, as a member of the Order. It is a virtue for us to be 'unorganized', thus your comment is amusing. Pridefull? I'm guessing not.
St. Francis speaks in ecstatic terms of those who embrace this way of life: "Oh, how happy and blessed are these men and women when they do these things and persevere in doing them since the Spirit of the Lord will rest upon them and He will make His home and dwelling among them; they are children of the heavenly Father whose works they do and they are spouses, brothers and mothers of our Lord Jesus Christ". "MOTHERS",plural?!!! Egads, now it's getting spooky. That's NOT Biblical.
No my friend, you clearly haven't read enough. Do you honestly believe that is taken literally? Please, think again. Better yet, read again. He says in that same document:
"We are mothers, when we carry him in our heart and body through divine love and a pure and sincere conscience; we give birth to him through a holy life which must give light to others by example."
Francis is describing the nature and depth of our love for Him. The love for Christ should be indescribable.
Thus we must have faith, which is manifested by our works. And those works provide an example to others. And we do that, in spite of our imperfections and fault, by trying to make a difference in the world by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, comforting the destitute and sorrowful, and try and give hope through the Words of Christ.
Francis said "It is no use walking anywhere to preach, unless our walking is our preaching"
Listen, mapollo, I don't mean to be critical or ignore the valuable aid and comfort you provide to the destitute. It is a very honorable aim in life to have compassion for others; and help them in any way possible. But the best thing we can do for anyone is to accuratly provide the gospel of Jesus Christ - so that they will recieve salvation. When you ignore God's Word which states salvation is "not of yourselves" -Eph. 2: 8-9 - you cloud the true gospel of salvation.
I believe I am living the Gospel. I am bringing the Word to life everyday while I am 'in the world', while not being part of it. Far from ignoring the Word of God, it is part of my being.
"And when we lighten the trails of others, it is Christ, the Risen One, whom we meet".
You may be "bringing the Word to life", but while that may attract others towards you, what do you tell them is the way of salvation? Being humble as children? You have a great responsibility to accurately reveal salvation - as we all do - Christ said, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." - John 11:25 Remember scripture - the MIND OF CHRIST. So important. May God bless you.
Bringing the Word to life is not to attract others to us. That is not our reason for being. You will find that in our rules and the writings of Francis. Bringing the Word to Life puts into action our faith - 'for even devils believe'...and that is predicated on the knowledge of scripture. The 'Mind of Christ' is not relegated and confined to a man made contraption called a book. He is in all of us, but only if we open ourselves to Him.
In the Earlier Exortation Francis instructs: love God; love your neighbor; turn away from sinful tendencies; communion; and finally to "produce fruits worthy of penance". Take the FIRST ONE, "love God"; HOW DO YOU LOVE WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW - you know God only through His Word - "Study [the Word] to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -2 Timothy 2:15. The focus should always be on His Word - not what MAN can do for GOD.
"The focus should always be on His Word - not what MAN can do for GOD."
Your point? God comes before all, including ourselves. If all of us puts God first, then everything else will fall into place. If anything good comes out of what we do or say, it is not us, but the Holy Spirit working through which is responsible, if we have indeed surrendered to the will of God.
Quoting you, mapollo - "God comes before all, including ourselves. If all of us puts God first, then everything else falls into place." - did you mean if we, as individuals, put God first. Even if "all of us" put God first (an impossibility), things would not fall into place, as we exist in the devil's world. Only for the individual who puts God first (and the "client nation" when there are enough positive, growing believers}. Do you believe in the angelic conflict, mapollo?
As individuals, God must come first especially before ourselves. And others must also come before ourselves. And of course that will not always be the case because we are imperfect, I know I am. Only God is the one true good. But it begins with each one of us.
Of course God comes "first before ourselves". His WORD comes before ourselves. When you say "others" must come before ourselves, those "others" CAN NOT become "before our selves" at the expense of application, knowledge of our Lord. We are no good to others without first KNOWLEDGE of Him through His Word. Knowledge of Him is through study and application of His Word. Knowledge of His Word is SO IMPORTANT. May God bless you. We never stop learning!!!! - through His Word.
"those "others" CAN NOT become "before our selves" at the expense of application, knowledge of our Lord."
Yes they can, and they and must, if we are true to our belief that we are no better than anyone else, that we are here to serve the Lord and each other - but not ourselves. In a world of 'me first', Franciscans put Christ first, and humanity, before themselves.
"If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled [you give them warmth and food]; but ye give them not those things which are needfull to the body; what [doth it] profit?" Jam. 2:16 - "body" here is the Greek word "soma" which is plural - means closely united into one society, or family - the mystical body. This verse explaines, what good is physical aid when what is truly needed the way to become part of God's family.
But let us be mindful that the Word of God will not find a home in a starving person. In fact what we do, in Christ's name, is living the Gospel, making true His words. Then people will know us by our actions as well as our words.
"But let us be mindfull that the Word of God will not find a home in a starving person." No, but the message of salvation will. Acts 16:31 - "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved" - and you are forever part of that mystical "body", the Body of Christ. That is what is stressed in James 2:16.
The Word of God does not satiate physical hunger. It does not feed a hungry child nor bring warmth to the cold. There are real human needs. Our task on this earth is to attend to those needs, with Christs words echoing in our ears "Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me."
When you say, "our task" (is to attend those needs - warmth, hunger) do you mean the Secular Franciscan Order? Do you guys not give the Gospel as well, so that these will have eternal life as well as a full belly? It is written, "MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD" -Mathew 4:4 (I did not add capitals, it's that way in the King James.)
"In fact what we do, in Christ's name, is living the Gospel, making true His words." The words of God ARE true, mapollo. We don't make them that way. I know I'm being picky, mapollo! I don't mean to offend. But study of and application of the Word has been a part of my life for thirty+ years and hermanudicts are second nature to me! So please bear with me - trying to communicate via uTube - not easy!
Then let me rephrase that - we are making His words real to the world which seems to want to shut him out. History, historiography, philogoy, are second nature to me as well, as they are my training and livelihood. But utube is not a particularly good venue to engage discussions and a lot of the nuances are lost. It would be better to be in a coffee shop.
I agree with you, our work is not a substitute. God must always remain the focus, as was the case with Francis. Before he gave himself over to God, the sight of lepers caused revulsion in him. One day he came upon a leper& his first impulse was to throw him a coin and move on. Instead he dismounted and embraced the leper. He later commented on that moment: "What seemed bitter to me was changed into sweetness of soul and body."
Well, surprise surprise, we agree on something! Been listening to my pastor teach about spiritual gifts; everyone does not have the same gift. You sound like you have the gift of "helps", a very important one.
"It would be better to be in a coffee shop". Yes, I agree that many "nuances" are lost - but in a strange way, it forces concentration (both noun and transitive verb form)of thought - reminds me of laconic Greek. Don't know about the chance of our meeting - judging by the time of your first post today you are on East coast time. I'm West coast. So you are safe. But it would be interesting to have one-on-one in person with you. Are Franciscans allowed to socialize in public with us peons?
I did not want to do this video. Steve encouraged me, and my fraternity felt it was important for others to see. I am a poor example, probably the most fault ridden Franciscan I know. But if my faults can be turned to good, to help bring the Christ's message, then I could not say no.
"What is clear is that His Word is not confined to a book." Of course not. That does not negate that God's Word is His thinking. ALL scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy).
"A mere book cannot contain the mind of God." I never said it could. I said it was the thinking of Christ, the mind of Christ, not Christ's mind in it's entirety. We can't the fathom the complete God, but He provides what we need to know through His Word. Then we apply it to life. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." (2 Timothy).
Hello, mapollo. I'm sure you recognize my tag-name. After viewing this video I now have a bit more knowledge regarding where you're comming from. Still, I must state that it is beyond me why so many, such as yourself, sunstitute the Bible, THE MIND OF CHRIST, with theirs, and other human's IDEAS of what it means to glorify and love and serve God. The only way to love anyone is to know them. The only way to know God is through His WORD.
Before you issue a comment perhaps you should inform yourself. It is clear you do not know Francis, the Franciscan Order, or the special relationship we have, using Francis as an example, with Jesus. If you do not know, then ask. The answer is simple. We do not substitute.
The earliest Rule was found in the Guarnacci Library in Volterra - called the Earlier Exortation, "The Letter to All the Faithful" and was likely composed @1215 A.D. The "Later Exortation" @1220. St. Francis was the author of both. St Francis instructed the "lay faithfull" to a life of "penance" or turning away from their sinfull ways and to instead turn toward God. This is not new. The Bible already instructs to reject sin. Why idolize a MAN that is simply following God's Word.
"This is not new. The Bible already instructs to reject sin. Why idolize a MAN that is simply following God's Word."
No it is not new. But why are we still talking about it today? Clearly humanity does not have a good memory. Francis provided and example of what can be if we surrendered completely to God's will. Idolize him? Oh please! He would be the first to toss the word into the dust heap. He was called Il Poverello for a reason.
"Toss the Word into the dust heap"? The way the Monks were tossing papyri into the fire for fuel at the Monastery of St. Catherine? -what was left (and rescued by a German scholar) became Codex Sinaiticus!!! See, I just don't think the RCC has ever realized how fantastic the Bible is. IT IS THE MIND OF CHRIST. Catholics have the Pope, they have Secular Franciscans. But they are VERY far removed from the original languages, Greek and Hebrew, of God's WORD. Sad. You're missing out big time.
If you want to play word games then we can end this discussion right now. I was referring to your own word 'idolize'.
The Word of God is not a typed letter, it is not bundles of paper bound together by imperfect men. The Word of God is Christ, the Word made Flesh, the Alpha and the Omega.The Word of God existed before time & before books.We believe all of that.We also believe in those words on paper, words which our Church has safeguarded from the beginning.
then why was the Codex S. discovered by a German? How do you explain the selling of indulgences for salvation in the old RCC? The Latin Vulgate? Again, HOW DO YOU GET TO HEAVEN?
You sound so wonderfully humble, just like St. Franci of Assisi. Godspeed to you. It sounds like a wonderful, and much needed order!!!! It is exactly what St. Francis tried to convey to the world. I share your point of view on many levels.
The need for Francis and his way has always been needed. I will never be like him. That is too great a gift/burden to pray for. But I try and walk his path because it leads to his Hero. The Great King, our Lord and Savior. I will falter, I know.
Is there salvation outside the Roman catholic faith ?. so if there is salvation outside the RC then all the saints and Marthys of vatican ! sacrifice is in vain. Not by yr Good work will you enter the gates of Heaven.if it some thing wrong in yr House get it Right its the Franciscan order its sT Francis Good Name which is High Jacked by the Vatican 2 Franciscan .all from one tree so why compromise .read st malachy prophecy's .I chalange any Roman catholic Order if they says thats wrong whois ?
I don't have to tell you that Luther added in the alone word in Romans do I ? James"faith without works is dead".Plane and simple works can not get you alone neither can faith you need both.Your gonna have to get more specific with me . The Roman Catholic church is the true universal church .
Dear Bro onclave. vatican 2 has damaged our faith we had more priest and qualitied Roman cathoilc but today the seminarys are empty,why? because according to vatican 2 there is salvation ouside the Roman catholic faith its Rubbish. so if a Buddish do good and he will salvation .The Holy father once to bring sspx back because Arch Bishop Lefeb was wright all the way you take a Tradition all our seminary will be empty and priest are no more priest and Franciscan orders are now Business companies .
Pope the salvation outside the Church he does not agree with and even has talked about welcoming the St. Pius 10th society back .My state alone graduated 8 priests from the Seminary last year in SC.
dear Bro ,I know wht i am talking about,we hv allowed the protestant conspiracy into our faith in the name of Ecuminsam.the lepord cannot change its colour so are the pagans and protestant. we will not allow this things to happen ,i hope that the raditional order clean up the anticatholic who are in our order.
We will continue to work, as Christ demanded of us, to bring all believers together, and that means reaching out to non-catholics but without sacrificing our beliefs. I am firm and confident in what I believe, thus I am not afraid to do as Christ told us.
Dear Bro why is that the Franciscan order has lost the true spirit of Rc.yr instutions are run by pagans where Rc are not allowed ,its seems that franciscan order has gone a Stray.But st francis assis is St francis ,it seems there is cancer in this orders realy become secular .its better not to say Jesus is God and say they are many ways to GOD. my sheep knows my Voice. Its seems the Dragon his in control of yr Order. its ecuminical its no different from Luther wearing a Different Uniform.
lets not shadow facts ,it either nostrademous is Wright or St malachy. so who u think represent Chrsit.?and the Roman catholic faith.see read rev 7 verse 13 -17. its yr answer,
Sorry, I removed your other message in error. My apologies. I meant to click on 'respond'. I'm still not sure what the problem is you are trying to describe. The Secular Franciscan Order is growing. We are committed to obey the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. This is our life promise. Perhaps you having problems in your own country that I am not aware of.
Dear Bro it all starts from Jerusalem's there and also the same here,Franciscan order has many Group but already been infiltrated by the Protestants ,which i hv Exposed them to the Bishop conferences. so brother we need Quality Franciscan, as the holy father said better to hv little priest then many Rubbish one.so brother screen them we don't want Luther in the form of RC.if u want I can send you the Scaned document which was posted in the Internet down loaded and then send to the conferences,
its end time no time to allow pagans and protestants to damage our church, Its either Nostradamus predictions to come through or the Prophesy of St malachy to come.
There are no pagans in our order. And I will rely on God's infinite mercy. When the end comes, it will come. Even today. Instead of waiting in fear over the consequences of that end, are you serving Christ?When Mother Teresa was in hospital in 1983 this was part of her meditation:
Bro even the pagans are doing it not by yr Good works will u enter the gates of Heaven.but let us ask the lord with the prophet; who will dwell in your tent,lord who will find rest upon your holy mountains?(psalm14(15);1et us listen well to what the lord says in reply ,for he shows us the way to his tent.One who walks without blemish,he says,and is just in all his dealng ,who speaks the truth from his heart and has not practised deceit with his tounge ;who has not listened to slanders .
My friend, view my other video on Secular Franciscans. We are an official Order of the Church, begun by St. Francis himself. I think the issues you are describing are unique to your country. They must return to Rule of St. Francis. Otherwise they are not Franciscan.
Dear Bro u are Wright here its no more franciscan. its money and Chinese and Hindu culture no more Roman catholic, its Chinese catholic.Hindu catholic ,thats why I am very strick in bring this cultured people in the Benedictine Order(oblate).its the Dragon and the serpant. once we are Roman catholic its our Culture ,race and Life.jesus has no culture he is God.
Read James epistle "faith without works is dead'.Don't skip around that as Luther wished to .He wanted to take that book out of the Bible as well but his assistants persuaded him not to do so because it would make him more radical than he already looked .
Luther, is Lost now see whats happening to the protestants and the Angelican all Man made Churches. Jesus said I will build the church on peter the Rock of faith not on churches,jesus said church not churches.
A much, much belated congratulations! I hope all is well with you today! I very much enjoyed your video.
adecker14 1 month ago
Shame that more Christians don't have the education to fully understand the importance of the Saints to their own lives. It is very likely that they wouldn't posses Christianity at all right now if it wern't for the Love, Obedience and Grace of men like St Francis who, instead of abandoning the Church for her shortcomings, obeyed Christ to remain ever obediant to the Church which He
founded upon earth. This to me is the centerpiece of Franciscanism, that
despite the shortcomings of the Church..
DuncanDonuts3 1 year ago
@DuncanDonuts3
Wise observations! Francis was indeed a rebel in his own time...and over 800 years later he continues to be. He sought change, but from within. How did he do that? I think a line often attributed to him said it best.."Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary use words"
:)
Pace e bene
mapollo 1 year ago
@mapollo Pace e bene
DuncanDonuts3 1 year ago
Christians should not offend Christ by turning on one another...none of us has the full understanding of the faith we have been given as grace.
However, the ONLY way one can speak ill of St. Francis, Maximillian Kolbe, Anthony of Padua, Padre Pio, etc,. is by never having met them through reading about their lives in Christ. Wonderful friends of God who knew, loved and served the Lord God faithfully...& we try to learn our best.
The Peace of the Prince of Peace be with all.
Pax Christi...
TheOrlandoCatholic 1 year ago
I have been discerning a vocation to the Secular Franciscans for years now.
RE: Different Christian traditions, once the disciples came to Jesus to tell Him that others, who were not of their group, were preaching and exorcising in His name, should they tell them not to? And Jesus said, leave them alone for no one can do things in MY NAME and then turn on me.
AND, we ALL follow the 10 Mosaic Commandments, and #8 says to not bear false witness against another with the intent to harm...
TheOrlandoCatholic 1 year ago
What better role model than St. Francis! God bless you for your decision. (That is one loud clock in the background!)
thebaroneswife 2 years ago 3
thebaroneswife...
thanks. It is loud, come to think of it! I think that perhaps the clock (a cuckoo clock at that) may be a reminder that we have very little time on this earth ;)
mapollo 2 years ago
wow, I just read most of the 115 comments below and must commend you on your incredible patience and humility in the face of some rather intense conversation. Good job.
My favourite comment from you was: "I am a poor example, probably the most fault ridden Franciscan I know" Proof to me that you are truly Franciscan.
I am currently in the inquiry stage and am preparing for candidacy (in your Region I might add). I pray that I am granted the same peace you have been blessed with.
jimmyedwin 2 years ago
You are in Trillium? Wonderful.
Thanks for your comment, but I should add I am still a poor example. And you will be attacked (as per the comments on the video), because even today Franciscans are seen as rebels. Yet I take solace in the words of Francis who began the day by saying "let us begin again, for until know we have done nothing"
May the Holy Spirit gently guide on the path which God has laid out for you. Surrender to His will.
Pax et Bonum.
Marzio
mapollo 2 years ago
I am indeed in Trillium. Will try to send you a private email with other details but if you have the lspring issue of the Good News Report you will find me listed on the last page under "Re-forming Fraternity"
I am well aware of the attacks that are forthcoming. Have been suffering ridicule for years since my spiritual re-awakening but that's another (long) story. Peace br
jimmyedwin 2 years ago
Perhaps you should become a JESUSIST INSTEAD!!!
delitemyheart 2 years ago
"JESUSIST INSTEAD!!! "
and what Australian cult is that?
Inform yourself. All you have revealed is what little you know...and that is much.
mapollo 2 years ago
He wants you to order the Holy Order of Jesus....THE JESUITS!!! Those Jesuits are so clever they even have the fundies working for them! ;>) God bless!
labarum312 2 years ago
Gawd...there goes another conspiracy! :))
Pax et Bonum
mapollo 2 years ago
Now u feel like u can become whole in Christ thru St Francess example?
You are pathetic and disturbed.
You should become whole in Christ because of Jesus's example...not because of Francess example.
Your a Franciscan aye?
Im a Jesusist!!! And my Jesus is better than your Francess!!!
You make me sick you Pagan!!!
You have no idea what it means to be whole in Christ!!!!!!!!
delitemyheart 2 years ago
Perhaps you should speak when you know what you are talking about.
Silence is a virtue...not hatred.
mapollo 2 years ago
perhaps you should get to know Jesus Christ instead of st francess!!!
delitemyheart 2 years ago
I do know Jesus. You would do well to do the same.
mapollo 2 years ago
A jesusist is a bible believing Christian!
Being a franciscan is a cult you hipocrite.
You know Jesus?....you dont know nuffin. All you know is paganism. Francess is you God.
You can say franciscan...well then i can say jesusist. Frances is ur teacher....Jesus is my teacher!
delitemyheart 2 years ago
I'm a Jesus believing Christian. Perhaps you should give that a try.
A 'jesusist'. That's a new one. Smoking your breakfast?
mapollo 2 years ago
Learn from Jesus' admonition:
"You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life. I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you."
John 5:39-42
mapollo 2 years ago
If you were truly a "Bible Believing Christian" you would not be so full of hate and bigotry. Jesus said to love our enemies and to pray for those who persecute you
McReb 2 years ago
I am not full of hate. And i dont have any enemies!!!
delitemyheart 2 years ago
@delitemyheart In think you're wrong because he and Francis are following Jesus example and i am afraid you have no idea what that is.
auntbecky 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. Bingolly is correct, this is great testimony.
God bless you.
TheManGadoosh 2 years ago
And God be with you.
Thanks for your kind words. I never would have done this, but Steve Silvia cajoled me into it. If it helps someone...I'm happy.
mapollo 2 years ago
I do not know how I ever missed this video. Great testimony and GBU
Bingolly1 2 years ago
Thanks Bing. Thanks for being on yt.
mapollo 2 years ago
Your presence on youtube and insightful comments add much to my videos and for that I thank you. Peace
Bingolly1 2 years ago
God's blessings on you
DaughterofStFrancis 2 years ago
Thank you for your kindness.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
Pax et Bonum
mapollo 2 years ago
I loved your video and am currently looking into four different Franciscan Lay groups including the SFO
Pax
FollowingStFaustina 2 years ago
Pray and the Holy Spirit will help you discern your path.
Pace e bene.
mapollo 2 years ago
Pace e bene
Catholicisgood 2 years ago
So humbly & beautifully stated.
Twas as if the light from the window over your shoulder was the light of wisdom spilling into your soul and speaking through you.
God bless.
Catholicisgood 2 years ago
Catholicisgood, thankyou. My path is an imperfect attempt to follow Christ in the footsteps of St. Francis.
What ever good comes out of this is not of my doing but of the Holy Spirit.
God be with you.
Pace e bene
mapollo 2 years ago
Thank you so much for sharing this Dear Brother.
BigDink57 3 years ago
Thank you for your kind words.
mapollo 2 years ago
This are Francis's own words:
"Most High, all powerful, good Lord,
Yours are the praises, the glory, the honor,
and all blessing.
To You alone, Most High, do they belong,
and no man is worthy to mention Your name."
mapollo 3 years ago
This is what we believe: we observe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ by following the example of Saint Francis of Assisi, who made Christ the inspiration and the center of his life with God and people.... We devote ourselves especially to careful reading of the gospel, going from gospel to life and life to the gospel.
Now, if you had truly informed yourself you would know this. Clearly you haven't.
mapollo 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
mapollo, you are following the path of a man who had the stigmata? oh boy! if he was anything like Pio, then Francis also was an Idol worshiper... just warning you!
Christian3269 3 years ago
Right.
mapollo 3 years ago
Christian3269: Grow up.
BigDink57 3 years ago 2
Excellent!
KaiseRex42 3 years ago
thanks.
mapollo 3 years ago
love the video thank you
truthisbetter 3 years ago
Thanks. It's not a very good story. If it helps someone it certainly isn't because of me. :)
mapollo 3 years ago
fantastic video! and congratulations to u on becoming a secular franciscan! its a beautiful thing to see that lifes journey has led u to peace & happiness. and what better role model do we have then St. Francis. God bless u !!
Qbears 3 years ago
I pray I will be up to the task.
Thank you.
Pax et Bonum.
mapollo 3 years ago
Inspiring.
May God Bless you abundantly in this journey as a Fransiscan.
Peace be with you and our Lord Jesus Christ, now and forever.
faithhopelovecor1313 3 years ago
May the Holy Spirit be with you always.
Thanks.
Pax et Bonum
mapollo 3 years ago
Artcle 4 continued: "Christ, the gift of the Father's love (got that one right) is the way to Him (right again), the Truth into which the Holy Spirit leads us...Secular Franciscans should devote themselves especially to careful reading of the gospel, going from gospel to life and life to the gospel." If that's correct, mapollo, what about Acts 16:31 - "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." -and all those other verses I gave to you over at "The Truth about Catholics"? Rom. 8:1-2 etc
cecefranki 3 years ago
"If that's correct, mapollo, what about Acts 16:31"
Tell me, what do you believe we read?
mapollo 3 years ago
If you read the Bible, then why did you think Paul (who wrote most of the New Testament) wrote "faith without works is dead"? It was in James.
Acts 16:31 - Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. -why do you think that verse IS? How can that verse exist? What about John 5:24 - "He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS ETERNAL LIFE, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." -what about that? IT IS THE WORD OF GOD! What do you say?
cecefranki 3 years ago
Works is the outcome of faith. Thus if you only have faith, but nothing to show for it, your faith is dead. Works do not produce faith nor grace. We believe that we can do nothing to merit God's grace. Thus Francis believe he was a worthless speck of dust not worthy. He began each day saying "Today we begin again, for until now we have done nothing".
We believe all of that. You believe we think otherwise.
Why is that?
mapollo 3 years ago
Because faith is faith. Works, or more accuratly glorifying God, comes AFTER salvation; faith is a split-second decision that gives all the credit to God for providing salvation. "Works" is not the "outcome" of faith, it is a RESULT of
1.learning the Word. ACCURATELY.
2.applying it to your life.
This involves a great deal. We must develop in our soul - 1.frame of reference 2.memory center 3.vocabulary 4.catagorical storage - all having to do with learning God's Word. This glorifies God.
cecefranki 3 years ago
""Works" is not the "outcome" of faith, it is a RESULT of "
Semantics are not germane to this, none the less James 2 says "You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works."
The key phrase: Faith is completed by works.
mapollo 3 years ago
We have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2). You can memorize scripture to your heart's content, but context is what counts.
jmkeller 3 years ago
Obviously we are not saved by faith alone, or it would state this in the bible. It DOES tell us that we are NOT justified by faith alone. You seem to be taking the bible out of context. This is a good reason why Catholics have a catechism....and also a reason why there is and always has been one Catholic Church and countless thousands of other religions popping up every year.
jmkeller 3 years ago
I am very familiar with Francis as such I see in your assumptions and conjectures much room for needed study. You remind me of one of the four blind men touching a different part of an elephant, and then asked to describe what creature stood before them. Each had a different answer. You seem to be doing the same. But I appreciate your questions none the less.
mapollo 3 years ago
The current "Rule" was given by Pope Paul VI in 1978 with the Apostolic letter "Seraphicus Patriarcha". Article 4: "The rule and life of the Secular Franciscan is this: To observe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ by following the example of St. Francis of Assisi, who made Christ the inspiration and the center of his life with God and people." St. Francis didn't, he emphasized "penance" as the way to love God. The Bible IS the MIND OF CHRIST - the whole Bible.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"St. Francis didn't, he emphasized "penance" as the way to love God."
He was one of the first penitents. But tell me, what do you think was the reasoning for this? You have given me your opinion, but it is only that.
mapollo 3 years ago
The reason is lack of thorough knowledge and application of the Word, due to things like the Latin Vulgate (horrible mistranslation of the Bible in the old RCC), and legalism (the arrogance of man focusing on gaining points with God rather than accepting and being oriented to God's grace). When anyone thinks their efforts "combine" with God's grace for salvation, that negates God's grace. Simple. Faith+works is not faith, it's works. You believe that your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL
cecefranki 3 years ago
"You believe that your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL"
Where is that illustrated in Francis and the teachings of the Church?
mapollo 3 years ago
Do you or do you not belive in salvation through faith? "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved". Catholics do not believe this. They add things to salvation like "making the faith real". THATS WORKS.
cecefranki 3 years ago
I wrote, "You believe your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL"
To which you replied, "Where is that illustrated in Francis and the teachings of the Church?
I consider you to be an accurate representative of the Catholic Church, mapollo. So answer this one question:
HOW DO YOU GET TO HEAVEN?
cecefranki 3 years ago
"You believe your efforts add to what CHRIST payed in FULL"
To which I said "We believe that we can do nothing to merit God's grace. Thus Francis believe he was a worthless speck of dust not worthy. He began each day saying "Today we begin again, for until now we have done nothing"."
We have nothing of ourselves to give back to God which is worthy. Works do not get you to heaven. But I suspect you wish me to say otherwise.
mapollo 3 years ago
How - do - you - get - to - heaven?
cecefranki 3 years ago
"How - do - you - get - to - heaven?"
I trust that is not condescension?
I will let Jesus answer for me, since He is my God & my All: "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children,you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me."
mapollo 3 years ago
A person who is instantly "saved"; accepting Jesus into your heart and believing in him for instant salvation is no where in the bible. What happens to the man who believes in the Lord and is "saved" but falls into serious sin by murdering someone and then dies while driving home, not repenting of what he did? Does he deserve heaven? How about the woman who does not forgive her enemies but was "saved"? Does she deserve heaven? Romans 2 - "God..will render to each one according to his deeds"
jmkeller 3 years ago
jmkeller,
salient points :) . 'Once saved, always saved' is not to be found in scripture, nor is the concept of sola scriptura, which seems to be connected with the idea of 'faith alone', the word 'alone' being added by Luther.
mapollo 3 years ago
quoting mapollo - "Once saved, always saved is not to be found in the Bible." Yes it is. "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." -Rom. 8:38-39. PAUL WROTE THAT, mapollo. "In Christ" refers always to those who believe in Christ.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Yes, the Bible does speak of salvation as a past tense event i.e. Ephe. 2:8-9. But Scripture also speaks of salvation as a present tense event. Phill. 2:12, Paul told us in strong words to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Can we lose it? Paul spoke about the 'obedience of faith in Rom. 1:5, 16:26.
mapollo 3 years ago
It is not enough that one call Jesus Lord, for, as he said, "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21; cf. Matt. 10:33, 18:35). If we are disobedient, God will "take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city" (Rev 22:19).
mapollo 3 years ago
Just because one may choose to no longer hold fast to what was freely given does not mean that you were ever capable of earning what was given to you in the first place. The same is true of earthly sonship—it cannot be earned. But if you were adopted, you would be free to run away as a prodigal son and lose your inheritance.
mapollo 3 years ago
The concept of 'once saved, always saved' is relatively new. The first person to espouse the idea of "once saved, always saved" was John Calvin (1700's i believe). Even Martin Luther didn't subscribe to the theory. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin, as John spoke about in 1 John 5:16--17.
mapollo 3 years ago
In the first century, the Didache, commonly known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, said "Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).
mapollo 3 years ago
In the second century, Irenaeus reaffirms this belief. I haven't check Ignatius but I believe he said something similar. He was a student of the Apostle John and tradition has it he was one the children held and blessed by Jesus. In any case, this consistent testimony has been given from the dawn of Christianity until today, with no suggestion of "once saved, always saved" found on the lips of any Christian before Calvin.
mapollo 3 years ago
"The concept of 'once saved, always saved' is relatively new." -quoting mapollo. Tell that to PAUL who wrote, TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" -Rom. 8:1 OR even to CHRIST Himself who SAID - "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live [eternal] even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." -John 11:25
cecefranki 3 years ago
Salvation is not mentioned in 1 John 5:16-17. "Sin unto death" in that verse refers to reversionism. "Death" here is the Greek "thanatos" which mearly means the death of the body, not spiritual death. Even we sin horribly, we do not loose salvation. 1 John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know you have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." You've to look at the whole passage.
cecefranki 3 years ago
The "will of My Father"...here we go again, mapollo, hurling verses..."He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement [eternital], but has passed out of death [spiritual] into life [eternal]." The will of the Father IS believing in His Son for salvation. "There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Rev. 22:19 has to do with "leaving out" parts of, or ignoring parts of the Word of God.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Irregardless, the belief of Christians until Calvin is contrary to what you are saying.
mapollo 3 years ago
"The belief of Christians until Calvin is contrary to what you're saying." -quoting mapollo. Not it isn't. Remember, 30+ yrs I've studied the ORIGINAL LANGUAGES, Greek and Hebrew and a little Aramaic that the Bible was ORIGINALLY written in. THAT is what I base my belief on -THE WORD of GOD written down and completed TWO THOUSAND YEARS ago. I have never belonged to any denomination; I want to be polite, but I must say that religion is man-made; the Word alone is God-breathed. My honest thoughts.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Again, it's a case of semantics, as far as I am concerned. A non-denominational stance is, by action, a denomination by default. The same can be said of atheists. Regarding different languages and translations, I'm sure you are aware of the dangers of word for word translation, and the importance of philology in that regard. As a student of history&anthropology, I am well aware of the dangers of subjectivity, irregardless of good intentions.
mapollo 3 years ago
A humorous aside: I often respond to atheist by telling them that I tried atheism, but I didn't have enough faith. A bit cheeky, I know.
mapollo 3 years ago
Yes, I am aware of "word-for-word" translation. The relatively new NIV version of the Bible is a good example of what can go wrong with "word-for-word". Isagogics, catagorical, exegetical translation from the Greek and Hebrew is the way to go.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"The belief of Christians until Calvin is contrary to what you are saying." No, it isn't. Christians were Christians, and as you say you are a "student of history" you should know that. Luther WAS NOT the "inventor" of "faith alone in Christ alone". The Bible states it. I've already given you dozens of verses that support this. The RCC had become so corrupt, executing anyone who possessed a translation other than the Latin Vulgate, that Luther put it as plainly as he could - look at history.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Christianity has been under attack by religion since it's inception. Gnosticism comes to mind -popular in the Middle East and the Mediterranean regions in the second, third centuries. Some say it pre-dates the completed Cannon of Scripture. When Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire (fourth century) it occaisioned the beginning of a tyranical, bloody advent in Catholicism. Throughout history the infallible WORD OF GOD has survived - God is omnipotent - Christianity is CHRIST
cecefranki 3 years ago
Again, friend, you are taking the bible out of context and using it to fulfill your point. You keep quoting the "saved" verses with no regard to the many on works. I don't need to remind you about the 2nd chapter of James. Just out of curiosity, and not to "one-up" you, but who taught you in "once saved, always saved?" Obviously as an adult you reasoned this yourself, but there must be a background. I was baptized Lutheran myself - pastors abound in my family and I am the only Catholic.
jmkeller 3 years ago
jmkeller - you say I'm not quoting the verses on works. Here's one - "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; and not of WORKS, lest any man should boast." -Ephesians 2:8-9. I quote the "saved" verses because they have to do with salvation. Duh. By the way, whenever the Bible states "in Christ" it is refering to those who believe in Christ - look at the ENDING of Romans 8:38-39. We are justified when God imputs His righteousness at salvation.
cecefranki 3 years ago
I've got to hand it to you, mapollo, there aren't many verses that seem to contradict Acts 16:31 but you find them! Phil.2:12 - you've got to look at the Greek word for "work out" and "own". "Work out" is katergazomai, which means to "work out from something else". "Own" is heautou, which means himself, herself, itself, themselves as is, as they are. So Phl 2:12..."work, from [or based on] your own [already established] salvation with fear [reverance] and trembling [has to do with humility].
cecefranki 3 years ago
Brother - this passage from scripture has nothing to do with "once saved, always saved". Again, this is out of context. God will always love us. Those in the faith and athiests too. Key word is LOVE, which is different from justification.
jmkeller 3 years ago
jmkeller - you are right about one thing. "Inviting Christ into your heart" IS NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE. The word "heart" in the Bible refers to our soul, not the physiological pump. The Word of God describes the condition of our souls as a "sewer" before we believe in Christ. We don't invite Christ ANYWHERE.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"A person who is instantly 'saved'...believing in him for instant salvation is nowhere in the bible." -quoting jmkeller. Yes it is. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved." -Acts 16:31 "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." -Gal. 3:26 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life.." -John 3:36 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; and not of works, lest any man should boast." -Eph. 2:8-9. John 5:24, etc.
cecefranki 3 years ago
What I am referring to is the many pastors and preachers who announce to the crowd: "Who would like to stand up and receive Jesus today?" They come forward, the pastor puts a hand on the head and salvation pours forth. This is what I have a problem with. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit is active during this time - a seed planted. No arguement there. But we need to stop with this cookie-cutter salvation.
jmkeller 3 years ago 2
"We need to stop with this cookie-cutter salvation." I couldn't agree with you more, jmkeller. You must take the Word, every bit of it, as God-breathed. "Study to show thyself approved unto God" (2 Tim.). While verses like Gal. 3:26, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.", are clear and "sharper than any sword", to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" in it's entirety you MUST USE THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES! This is an ABSOLUTE. So is salvation through Christ (John 10:28).
cecefranki 3 years ago
quoting jmkeller - "What happens to the man who believes in the Lord and is "saved" but falls into serious sin by murdering someone and then dies while driving home, not repenting of what he did?" Good question. We do nothing for salvation; we can do nothing to loose it. God is omniscient, omnipotent. "And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and NO ONE shall snatch them out of My hand." -John 10:28. NO ONE. Not even ourselves. His discipline HURTS!!! But, HE KEEPS HIS WORD.
cecefranki 3 years ago
We can do nothing to lose it? This reasoning just seems so shaky, doesn't it? If you were the God of all creation and one of the humans (image of God) was "saved" and then lived the rest of his life in sin (purposefully denying you), why would you want him in heaven? It's obvious he doesn't want to go there anymore.
This is why we talk about God's grace - and the reasons for mortal sin. There are sins in this world that are detrimental to our soul.
jmkeller 3 years ago 2
Anyways, the "Secular Franciscan Order" looks to me like a form of Apostolic Succesion, only on a much smaller scale.
By the way, mapollo, your friend stevesilvia has re-admitted my posts on "The Truth about Catholics", a day after deleting them.
"THE WORD OF GOD is alive and powerfull, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of the soul and the spirit, and of the joints of the marrow, and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart." -Hebrews 4:12
cecefranki 3 years ago
"Anyways, the "Secular Franciscan Order" looks to me like a form of Apostolic Succesion"
Now you're delving into the fantasy. You are mistaken. As to your messages on Steve's site, once they are deleted, they are gone. So i'm not sure what you are talking about. Steve and I have not discussed you, which may shock your ego.
mapollo 3 years ago
I did not say you and steve discussed me - I said that three or four of my posts had been deleted (as you acknowledged, even explained why, as if you knew), and a day later they were back. They are. All the ones where I gave the verses Paul wrote about salvation. Look at comments under "The Truth About Catholics" , steve's video, and you will see. Also, you're the one with an ego. I wrote, "Secular Franciscan Order looks to me like a FORM of Apostolic Succesion, only on a MUCH SMALLER scale."
cecefranki 3 years ago
I don't think youtube works the way you described it. Once the comments are deleted, they are gone.I also had difficulty finding my own comments but youtube hadn't sorted them out yet. Perhaps that is what happened to yours. Regarding ego & apostolic succession, I am merely revealing to you what I know as the truth, as a member of the Order. It is a virtue for us to be 'unorganized', thus your comment is amusing. Pridefull? I'm guessing not.
mapollo 3 years ago
St. Francis speaks in ecstatic terms of those who embrace this way of life: "Oh, how happy and blessed are these men and women when they do these things and persevere in doing them since the Spirit of the Lord will rest upon them and He will make His home and dwelling among them; they are children of the heavenly Father whose works they do and they are spouses, brothers and mothers of our Lord Jesus Christ". "MOTHERS",plural?!!! Egads, now it's getting spooky. That's NOT Biblical.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Why don't you read all his writings?
As I said, inform yourself.
mapollo 3 years ago
I read enough, especially when I read the QUOTE from him, "you are all MOTHERS of Christ". Explain that one to me.
cecefranki 3 years ago
No my friend, you clearly haven't read enough. Do you honestly believe that is taken literally? Please, think again. Better yet, read again. He says in that same document:
"We are mothers, when we carry him in our heart and body through divine love and a pure and sincere conscience; we give birth to him through a holy life which must give light to others by example."
Francis is describing the nature and depth of our love for Him. The love for Christ should be indescribable.
mapollo 3 years ago
Thus we must have faith, which is manifested by our works. And those works provide an example to others. And we do that, in spite of our imperfections and fault, by trying to make a difference in the world by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, comforting the destitute and sorrowful, and try and give hope through the Words of Christ.
Francis said "It is no use walking anywhere to preach, unless our walking is our preaching"
mapollo 3 years ago
Listen, mapollo, I don't mean to be critical or ignore the valuable aid and comfort you provide to the destitute. It is a very honorable aim in life to have compassion for others; and help them in any way possible. But the best thing we can do for anyone is to accuratly provide the gospel of Jesus Christ - so that they will recieve salvation. When you ignore God's Word which states salvation is "not of yourselves" -Eph. 2: 8-9 - you cloud the true gospel of salvation.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"you cloud the true gospel of salvation."
I believe I am living the Gospel. I am bringing the Word to life everyday while I am 'in the world', while not being part of it. Far from ignoring the Word of God, it is part of my being.
"And when we lighten the trails of others, it is Christ, the Risen One, whom we meet".
mapollo 3 years ago
You may be "bringing the Word to life", but while that may attract others towards you, what do you tell them is the way of salvation? Being humble as children? You have a great responsibility to accurately reveal salvation - as we all do - Christ said, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." - John 11:25 Remember scripture - the MIND OF CHRIST. So important. May God bless you.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Bringing the Word to life is not to attract others to us. That is not our reason for being. You will find that in our rules and the writings of Francis. Bringing the Word to Life puts into action our faith - 'for even devils believe'...and that is predicated on the knowledge of scripture. The 'Mind of Christ' is not relegated and confined to a man made contraption called a book. He is in all of us, but only if we open ourselves to Him.
Pax et Bonum
mapollo 3 years ago
In the Earlier Exortation Francis instructs: love God; love your neighbor; turn away from sinful tendencies; communion; and finally to "produce fruits worthy of penance". Take the FIRST ONE, "love God"; HOW DO YOU LOVE WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW - you know God only through His Word - "Study [the Word] to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -2 Timothy 2:15. The focus should always be on His Word - not what MAN can do for GOD.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"The focus should always be on His Word - not what MAN can do for GOD."
Your point? God comes before all, including ourselves. If all of us puts God first, then everything else will fall into place. If anything good comes out of what we do or say, it is not us, but the Holy Spirit working through which is responsible, if we have indeed surrendered to the will of God.
mapollo 3 years ago
Quoting you, mapollo - "God comes before all, including ourselves. If all of us puts God first, then everything else falls into place." - did you mean if we, as individuals, put God first. Even if "all of us" put God first (an impossibility), things would not fall into place, as we exist in the devil's world. Only for the individual who puts God first (and the "client nation" when there are enough positive, growing believers}. Do you believe in the angelic conflict, mapollo?
cecefranki 3 years ago
As individuals, God must come first especially before ourselves. And others must also come before ourselves. And of course that will not always be the case because we are imperfect, I know I am. Only God is the one true good. But it begins with each one of us.
mapollo 3 years ago
Dear mapollo,
Of course God comes "first before ourselves". His WORD comes before ourselves. When you say "others" must come before ourselves, those "others" CAN NOT become "before our selves" at the expense of application, knowledge of our Lord. We are no good to others without first KNOWLEDGE of Him through His Word. Knowledge of Him is through study and application of His Word. Knowledge of His Word is SO IMPORTANT. May God bless you. We never stop learning!!!! - through His Word.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"those "others" CAN NOT become "before our selves" at the expense of application, knowledge of our Lord."
Yes they can, and they and must, if we are true to our belief that we are no better than anyone else, that we are here to serve the Lord and each other - but not ourselves. In a world of 'me first', Franciscans put Christ first, and humanity, before themselves.
mapollo 3 years ago
"If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled [you give them warmth and food]; but ye give them not those things which are needfull to the body; what [doth it] profit?" Jam. 2:16 - "body" here is the Greek word "soma" which is plural - means closely united into one society, or family - the mystical body. This verse explaines, what good is physical aid when what is truly needed the way to become part of God's family.
cecefranki 3 years ago
But let us be mindful that the Word of God will not find a home in a starving person. In fact what we do, in Christ's name, is living the Gospel, making true His words. Then people will know us by our actions as well as our words.
mapollo 3 years ago
"But let us be mindfull that the Word of God will not find a home in a starving person." No, but the message of salvation will. Acts 16:31 - "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved" - and you are forever part of that mystical "body", the Body of Christ. That is what is stressed in James 2:16.
cecefranki 3 years ago
The Word of God does not satiate physical hunger. It does not feed a hungry child nor bring warmth to the cold. There are real human needs. Our task on this earth is to attend to those needs, with Christs words echoing in our ears "Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me."
mapollo 3 years ago
When you say, "our task" (is to attend those needs - warmth, hunger) do you mean the Secular Franciscan Order? Do you guys not give the Gospel as well, so that these will have eternal life as well as a full belly? It is written, "MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD" -Mathew 4:4 (I did not add capitals, it's that way in the King James.)
cecefranki 3 years ago
"In fact what we do, in Christ's name, is living the Gospel, making true His words." The words of God ARE true, mapollo. We don't make them that way. I know I'm being picky, mapollo! I don't mean to offend. But study of and application of the Word has been a part of my life for thirty+ years and hermanudicts are second nature to me! So please bear with me - trying to communicate via uTube - not easy!
cecefranki 3 years ago
Then let me rephrase that - we are making His words real to the world which seems to want to shut him out. History, historiography, philogoy, are second nature to me as well, as they are my training and livelihood. But utube is not a particularly good venue to engage discussions and a lot of the nuances are lost. It would be better to be in a coffee shop.
mapollo 3 years ago
My meaning was, if our aid to others replaces our mandate to put God first in our lives.
Some can become arrogant from all the "good work" that they do, and that starts to replace their focus on God as the provider.
cecefranki 3 years ago
I agree with you, our work is not a substitute. God must always remain the focus, as was the case with Francis. Before he gave himself over to God, the sight of lepers caused revulsion in him. One day he came upon a leper& his first impulse was to throw him a coin and move on. Instead he dismounted and embraced the leper. He later commented on that moment: "What seemed bitter to me was changed into sweetness of soul and body."
Without God, it would not have been possible.
mapollo 3 years ago
Well, surprise surprise, we agree on something! Been listening to my pastor teach about spiritual gifts; everyone does not have the same gift. You sound like you have the gift of "helps", a very important one.
Now if we could only agree on salvation......
cecefranki 3 years ago
"Now if we could only agree on salvation......"
I believe we do. Christ is the way.
mapollo 3 years ago
"It would be better to be in a coffee shop". Yes, I agree that many "nuances" are lost - but in a strange way, it forces concentration (both noun and transitive verb form)of thought - reminds me of laconic Greek. Don't know about the chance of our meeting - judging by the time of your first post today you are on East coast time. I'm West coast. So you are safe. But it would be interesting to have one-on-one in person with you. Are Franciscans allowed to socialize in public with us peons?
cecefranki 3 years ago
"Are Franciscans allowed to socialize in public with us peons?"
We desire to be the least and the last. Take your cue from that.
mapollo 3 years ago
"We desire to be the least and the last."
Then why did you make a video?
Does being a Franciscan include delivering the Gospel?
cecefranki 3 years ago
I did not want to do this video. Steve encouraged me, and my fraternity felt it was important for others to see. I am a poor example, probably the most fault ridden Franciscan I know. But if my faults can be turned to good, to help bring the Christ's message, then I could not say no.
mapollo 3 years ago
"To help bring Christ's message.." -answer from mapollo. Good answer.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"What is clear is that His Word is not confined to a book." Of course not. That does not negate that God's Word is His thinking. ALL scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy).
cecefranki 3 years ago
"ALL scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy)."
But it is not the only tool. Read on.
mapollo 3 years ago
"A mere book cannot contain the mind of God." I never said it could. I said it was the thinking of Christ, the mind of Christ, not Christ's mind in it's entirety. We can't the fathom the complete God, but He provides what we need to know through His Word. Then we apply it to life. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." (2 Timothy).
cecefranki 3 years ago
"but He provides what we need to know through His Word."
If that is the case, then there would not have been the need for Christ to send a helper, the Paraclete.
mapollo 3 years ago
Hello, mapollo. I'm sure you recognize my tag-name. After viewing this video I now have a bit more knowledge regarding where you're comming from. Still, I must state that it is beyond me why so many, such as yourself, sunstitute the Bible, THE MIND OF CHRIST, with theirs, and other human's IDEAS of what it means to glorify and love and serve God. The only way to love anyone is to know them. The only way to know God is through His WORD.
cecefranki 3 years ago
Before you issue a comment perhaps you should inform yourself. It is clear you do not know Francis, the Franciscan Order, or the special relationship we have, using Francis as an example, with Jesus. If you do not know, then ask. The answer is simple. We do not substitute.
Inform yourself.
mapollo 3 years ago
I am informed.
The earliest Rule was found in the Guarnacci Library in Volterra - called the Earlier Exortation, "The Letter to All the Faithful" and was likely composed @1215 A.D. The "Later Exortation" @1220. St. Francis was the author of both. St Francis instructed the "lay faithfull" to a life of "penance" or turning away from their sinfull ways and to instead turn toward God. This is not new. The Bible already instructs to reject sin. Why idolize a MAN that is simply following God's Word.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"This is not new. The Bible already instructs to reject sin. Why idolize a MAN that is simply following God's Word."
No it is not new. But why are we still talking about it today? Clearly humanity does not have a good memory. Francis provided and example of what can be if we surrendered completely to God's will. Idolize him? Oh please! He would be the first to toss the word into the dust heap. He was called Il Poverello for a reason.
mapollo 3 years ago
"Toss the Word into the dust heap"? The way the Monks were tossing papyri into the fire for fuel at the Monastery of St. Catherine? -what was left (and rescued by a German scholar) became Codex Sinaiticus!!! See, I just don't think the RCC has ever realized how fantastic the Bible is. IT IS THE MIND OF CHRIST. Catholics have the Pope, they have Secular Franciscans. But they are VERY far removed from the original languages, Greek and Hebrew, of God's WORD. Sad. You're missing out big time.
cecefranki 3 years ago
"Toss the Word into the dust heap"
If you want to play word games then we can end this discussion right now. I was referring to your own word 'idolize'.
The Word of God is not a typed letter, it is not bundles of paper bound together by imperfect men. The Word of God is Christ, the Word made Flesh, the Alpha and the Omega.The Word of God existed before time & before books.We believe all of that.We also believe in those words on paper, words which our Church has safeguarded from the beginning.
mapollo 3 years ago
Ooops, touched a nerve, sorry, but -
then why was the Codex S. discovered by a German? How do you explain the selling of indulgences for salvation in the old RCC? The Latin Vulgate? Again, HOW DO YOU GET TO HEAVEN?
cecefranki 3 years ago
You sound so wonderfully humble, just like St. Franci of Assisi. Godspeed to you. It sounds like a wonderful, and much needed order!!!! It is exactly what St. Francis tried to convey to the world. I share your point of view on many levels.
Spiritus7 3 years ago
The need for Francis and his way has always been needed. I will never be like him. That is too great a gift/burden to pray for. But I try and walk his path because it leads to his Hero. The Great King, our Lord and Savior. I will falter, I know.
Thank you.
Il Signore ti benedica.
P+B
mapollo 3 years ago
Is there salvation outside the Roman catholic faith ?. so if there is salvation outside the RC then all the saints and Marthys of vatican ! sacrifice is in vain. Not by yr Good work will you enter the gates of Heaven.if it some thing wrong in yr House get it Right its the Franciscan order its sT Francis Good Name which is High Jacked by the Vatican 2 Franciscan .all from one tree so why compromise .read st malachy prophecy's .I chalange any Roman catholic Order if they says thats wrong whois ?
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
I don't have to tell you that Luther added in the alone word in Romans do I ? James"faith without works is dead".Plane and simple works can not get you alone neither can faith you need both.Your gonna have to get more specific with me . The Roman Catholic church is the true universal church .
onclave6 3 years ago
Dear Bro onclave. vatican 2 has damaged our faith we had more priest and qualitied Roman cathoilc but today the seminarys are empty,why? because according to vatican 2 there is salvation ouside the Roman catholic faith its Rubbish. so if a Buddish do good and he will salvation .The Holy father once to bring sspx back because Arch Bishop Lefeb was wright all the way you take a Tradition all our seminary will be empty and priest are no more priest and Franciscan orders are now Business companies .
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
"Franciscan orders are now Business companies"
Please, don't be silly.
mapollo 3 years ago
According to Our current
Pope the salvation outside the Church he does not agree with and even has talked about welcoming the St. Pius 10th society back .My state alone graduated 8 priests from the Seminary last year in SC.
onclave6 3 years ago
"welcoming the St. Pius 10th"
A hand has been extended to them. Now it is up to the St. Pius people make good their commitment. I believe they have until the end of this month.
mapollo 3 years ago
"its sT Francis Good Name which is High Jacked by the Vatican 2 Franciscan"
Bene,
I have to strongly disagree with you. I don't believe you truly understand what we are about and what we do.
mapollo 3 years ago
dear Bro ,I know wht i am talking about,we hv allowed the protestant conspiracy into our faith in the name of Ecuminsam.the lepord cannot change its colour so are the pagans and protestant. we will not allow this things to happen ,i hope that the raditional order clean up the anticatholic who are in our order.
God Bless
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
We will continue to work, as Christ demanded of us, to bring all believers together, and that means reaching out to non-catholics but without sacrificing our beliefs. I am firm and confident in what I believe, thus I am not afraid to do as Christ told us.
mapollo 3 years ago
Ti auguro Buon Cammino con San Francesco d'Assisi e San Ludovico Re
gioiafelice 3 years ago
Mille grazie.
Pace e bene.
mapollo 3 years ago
Dear Bro why is that the Franciscan order has lost the true spirit of Rc.yr instutions are run by pagans where Rc are not allowed ,its seems that franciscan order has gone a Stray.But st francis assis is St francis ,it seems there is cancer in this orders realy become secular .its better not to say Jesus is God and say they are many ways to GOD. my sheep knows my Voice. Its seems the Dragon his in control of yr Order. its ecuminical its no different from Luther wearing a Different Uniform.
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
What are you talking about?
mapollo 3 years ago
Dear mappol,
lets not shadow facts ,it either nostrademous is Wright or St malachy. so who u think represent Chrsit.?and the Roman catholic faith.see read rev 7 verse 13 -17. its yr answer,
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
Sorry, I removed your other message in error. My apologies. I meant to click on 'respond'. I'm still not sure what the problem is you are trying to describe. The Secular Franciscan Order is growing. We are committed to obey the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. This is our life promise. Perhaps you having problems in your own country that I am not aware of.
mapollo 3 years ago
Dear Bro it all starts from Jerusalem's there and also the same here,Franciscan order has many Group but already been infiltrated by the Protestants ,which i hv Exposed them to the Bishop conferences. so brother we need Quality Franciscan, as the holy father said better to hv little priest then many Rubbish one.so brother screen them we don't want Luther in the form of RC.if u want I can send you the Scaned document which was posted in the Internet down loaded and then send to the conferences,
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
Dear Mapoll,
pax
its end time no time to allow pagans and protestants to damage our church, Its either Nostradamus predictions to come through or the Prophesy of St malachy to come.
Rev7verses 13 -17.
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
My friend,
There are no pagans in our order. And I will rely on God's infinite mercy. When the end comes, it will come. Even today. Instead of waiting in fear over the consequences of that end, are you serving Christ?When Mother Teresa was in hospital in 1983 this was part of her meditation:
'Jesus is the Hungry-to be fed.
Jesus is the Thirsty-to be satiated.
Jesus is the Naked-to be clothed.
Jesus is the Homeless-to be taken in.
Jesus is the Sick-to be healed.
Jesus is the Lonely-to be loved.'
mapollo 3 years ago
Bro even the pagans are doing it not by yr Good works will u enter the gates of Heaven.but let us ask the lord with the prophet; who will dwell in your tent,lord who will find rest upon your holy mountains?(psalm14(15);1et us listen well to what the lord says in reply ,for he shows us the way to his tent.One who walks without blemish,he says,and is just in all his dealng ,who speaks the truth from his heart and has not practised deceit with his tounge ;who has not listened to slanders .
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
My friend, view my other video on Secular Franciscans. We are an official Order of the Church, begun by St. Francis himself. I think the issues you are describing are unique to your country. They must return to Rule of St. Francis. Otherwise they are not Franciscan.
mapollo 3 years ago
Dear Bro u are Wright here its no more franciscan. its money and Chinese and Hindu culture no more Roman catholic, its Chinese catholic.Hindu catholic ,thats why I am very strick in bring this cultured people in the Benedictine Order(oblate).its the Dragon and the serpant. once we are Roman catholic its our Culture ,race and Life.jesus has no culture he is God.
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago
Read James epistle "faith without works is dead'.Don't skip around that as Luther wished to .He wanted to take that book out of the Bible as well but his assistants persuaded him not to do so because it would make him more radical than he already looked .
onclave6 3 years ago
Onclave
Luther, is Lost now see whats happening to the protestants and the Angelican all Man made Churches. Jesus said I will build the church on peter the Rock of faith not on churches,jesus said church not churches.
Benedictineoblate 3 years ago