Added: 4 years ago
From: fairldsorg
Views: 13,046
Sort by time | Sort by thread (beta)

Link to this comment:

Share to:

All Comments (448)

Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!
  • Could someone please point me in the direction of this chart. It would be interesting to see it.

  • Why can I google and find many things that support the Bible but, I google and find only Mormons supporting the book of mormon? Please someone post links to PROVE what this gentleman just said.

  • @tcolors Probably for the same reason that the Bible evidence websites are written by Christians who believe the Bible.

  • I did translate the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and it is before the world, and all the powers of earth and hell can never rob me of the honour of it. JOSEPH SMITH

  • Great opposition and much persecution followed the believers of [the Book of Mormon's] authenticity; but it had now come to pass that truth had sprung out of the earth; and righteousness had looked down from heaven—so we feared not our opponents, knowing that we had both truth and righteousness on our side; that we had both the Father and the Son, because we had the doctrines of Christ and abided in them. JOSEPH SMITH

  • I wish I could read the chart shown in the video. It's very poor quality. Is it available somewhere to print? I could really use it.

  • @smoraffah I believe it is available in the copy of his Library of Congress lecture.

  • @fairldsorg ah..been looking for hours. do you have a more direct source? webpage, etc? If so, please message it to me. I'd REALLY appreciate it!

  • ok.....where are they?

  • It's peculiar that according to those attacking the book of Mormon, there is now no scientific evidence of migration to America from Israel. I (a non-Mormon) came up with enough evidence (none from LDS sources) to overwhelmingly convinced my Jewish anthropogy prof. in 1974 that several tribes of Indians came from Israel.

  • @jzwillows Thanks for your remarkable comment.

    Have you ever published your research anywhere?

  • Yeah the truths that the Book of Mormon have spoken about are being revealed! Slowly but surely

  • What's the matter haters? You afraid of the Mormon Church being true?

  • @KenM66 Yes whenever something is attacked it must its true! Scientology for example. has so many haters as does Islam.

  • @LDS4Life71 People think just because the FAIR LDS are Mormons they don't know what they're doing. The antis forget the people in FAIR are scholars with PH. D's.

  • The program grew and changed as technology grew and changed, staying at the forefront all along the way. Eventually, the CBS radio and television network became the national partner.

    Some things have not changed: the heartfelt messages, the musical expressions of faith — and the fact that it is still a live broadcast, or, at least, has come full-circle back to a live broadcast.

  • Your "understanding of Mormonism" is partially incorrect and frankly offensive. Mormon men do NOT dominate their wives. Mormons do NOT hate homosexuals--nor ...

  • Nothing in the future is more important in helping the public break through remaining misconceptions about Mormons, to come to an understanding of who they truly are, than the lives and examples of individual Latter-day Saints.

  • Great, I'm glad you have properly identified the role of Jesus as the second member of the Trinity....but that does not make him any less GOD than an ice cube is water.

  • @wildbill1240 Awwh. Its really nice to know Jesus is Inseperable from God. That means he really really was the god in 2Kings 2:24 The babykiller god. Suffer little children to come unto me, and ILL KILL THEM WITH BEARS!

  • Further, he said, "We don't know all the answers … but we know this: The way the world is unraveling, all of us need each other to take a stand for religious liberty, which we believe is going to become a real issue. It is now, and we think it will become even more critical in the future. Those who care need to stand together and have their voices heard. People of faith have just simply got to speak out. They've got to be together. And that's the purpose of our visits."

  • The Most Rev. John C. Wester, bishop of the Catholic Diocese for Salt Lake City, introduces Elder Ballard before Elder M. Russell Ballard speaks at dinner for dedication celebration of newly refurbished Catholic Church in St George Utah, Aug. 22-23.

  • The Book Of Mormon is a strange, sort or awkward but amazing treasure.

    I listened to it on cd recently. Really Interesting.

    Archaeological evidences dont really concern me....the content of the book is what I care about.

    Read it for yourself.. cover to cover.

  • @toddolavi They say the same thing about the Koran.

    I recommend the book "The Mormon Murders" if you can find it. Seems to me--- from the story in that book---that the leaders of the Mormon Church know it's all a fraud and will do all they can to keep their flock (a huge source of income of course) blind to that fact.

  • Comment removed

  • @wildbill1240 LOL well I guess that logic would make the parables of Jesus Christ irrelavent.

  • @EscapeNewJersey Not at all. Jesus spoke the parables that were heard by eyewitnesses who had names, dates, places and other verifiable means of confirming their historical authorship...unlike the book of mormon.

  • @wildbill1240 Jesus' parables did not have characteres with known names, dates, places. The Bible is a collection of individual books that was cobbled together by men many years after the death of the Apostles. The word Bible is not mentioned in the Bible. There are no original manuscripts of any books of the Bible. Your logic is flawed because if you changed the city names in the the book The Lord of the Rings that does not make it scripture.

  • @EscapeNewJersey Jesus' parables were told in cities to people at specific times in history. The eyewitnesses documented this. The Lord of the Rings is a red herring. The Bible makes historical claims. Verify them. See for yourself if they are true. Questioning it and determining its veracity is encouraged (Acts 17:11).

  • @wildbill1240 LOL I'm sorry to tell you this but your blatant double standards force me to. There is no historical record that Jesus Christ, Noah, Amraham etc. ever actually lived. The Bible also makes many historical errors.

  • @EscapeNewJersey So you're a mormon denying that Jesus existed? Now I've heard it all....

  • @wildbill1240 No, I believe Christ existed but the fact remains that there are no historical records that he existed and you are saying that there are historical records that say he did live - I am pointing out your error and double standard against the Church of jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

  • @EscapeNewJersey You are saying, "I believe Christ existed but I don't have any evidence that he did." Atheists must love you. Double standard? ha, ok. Bible = historical records. The History Channel (and Discovery Channel), as liberal as they are, don't even dispute the existence of Jesus!  Look up all the documentaries...even nonbelievers know he walked the earth...

  • @wildbill1240 Bible Historical Errors

    Matthew 27: 15, Mark 15:6, Luke 23:17, and John 18:39 all speak of a Roman custom of releasing one prisoner at every Passover. According to the Gospels, the Roman governor Pilate mentioned and followed this custom when he released Barabbas. But history knows of no such custom. None of the many surviving Jewish and Roman historical sources mentions any such practice.

  • @EscapeNewJersey And the omission of this practice by other sources somehow discredits the Bible? That would be akin to saying that if no one wrote about Washington crossing the Delaware except Washington himself in his diaries then it didn't happen. Your logic is not sound.

  • @wildbill1240 You are implying that the Bible is inerrent and I am showing you that your are wrong - another double standard exposed and corrected.

  • @EscapeNewJersey You have showed nothing of the sort. You cast a shadow of doubt on an area that is under investigation but far from proven contradictory. A lack of evidence for or against something does not render the issue "conclusive."

  • @wildbill1240 The members of the true church anciently did not call themselves Christians, for that was but a nickname applied to them in derision by those who hated Christ. The members of the Church called themselves saints, as may be seen from various New Testament references (see Rom. 16:2; 1 Cor. 1:2), which are confirmed by Webster’s dictionary and by the Bible scholars. This, then, is one of the identification marks of the true Church. The members are called saints.

  • @EscapeNewJersey So words and definitions and Webster's dictionary make something true? Words don't carry the same meaning over time. Hence the need for translation. Have you ever tried to read something in Old English? It's virtually another language. Should I call you Elder?

  • @wildbill1240 This statement of your makes no sense at all. First you rely on fake historical facts to try to discredit the LDS Church but turn your back on true historical facts that expose your double standards.

  • @wildbill1240 Bible Historical errors

    A serious historical problem presents itself in Luke 2: 1-2, where it is said that shortly before the Savior's birth "a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the wo~d should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment [or census] when Quirinius was governor of Syria" (RSV). However, although the first census among the Jews did in fact take place during the governorship of Quirinius (=Cyrenius in the KJV), this did not occur until at least A.D. 6

  • @EscapeNewJersey A serious problem? Please do elaborate. Because there is archaeological debate about this event and controversy over which census Luke was referring to hardly renders a gaping hole in Luke's meticulous records.

  • @wildbill1240 LOL, "Because there is archaeological debate about this event and controversy over which census Luke was referring to". I have a strong feeling that this statement is not based in fact and just thrown out like the many distortions about the LDS Church.

  • @EscapeNewJersey Just do a search for scholarly debate on the issue. It's well-documented. Don't take my word for it.

  • @wildbill1240 Its a historical fact that the Doctrine of the Trinity was result of the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine efforts to conform Christianity to Pagan Platonic Greek Philosophy.

  • @EscapeNewJersey Really? Sounds like the DaVinci code and other conspiracies to me. The Trinity isn't invented by anyone. It reads straight from the text.  Father, Son, Holy Spirit are used interchangeably throughout the old testament and new testament. I don't care what Constantine thought about it.

  • @wildbill1240 WRONG

    "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old" (Prov. 8:22)

    "but of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

    "for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:38)

    "and this is life eternal, that they may know thee, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

    "The Son can do nothing of himself." (John 3:19)

  • @wildbill1240 WRONG

    "Why callest thou me good? There is none good, but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18)

    "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name that is above every name." (Philippians 2:9)

    And also passages that represented Jesus suffering, growing in wisdom etc. (Luke 2:52; John 11:33, 38; Matthew 26:39)

  • @EscapeNewJersey Your Matthew quote is about money. Meaning goods. No many owns anything but God. Otherwise Jesus was contrary when He says a Good man gives to his children.

  • @wildbill1240

    The word '(h)omoousios' (one substance) was invented and insisted by Emperor Constantne at the Council of Nicene to conform Christianity to Platonic Greek Philosophy

  • @EscapeNewJersey And I've never heard of that word. What's your point?

  • @wildbill1240 If you don't know that word than you don't not understand the Doctrine of the Trinity that is a core belief (wriiten by men) of mainstrean "christianity".

  • Comment removed

  • @toddolavi The content is irrelevant if the book is not grounded in history. Otherwise it is just mythical and has no bearing on reality.

  • The youth were volunteers, lending their time and labor in providing badly needed maintenance that might not otherwise have been available due to limited national park staffing. "Volunteer service is a valuable commodity to the Park Service," Lowe noted, "and this group is by far the largest we've seen."

  • Its guiding principle is simple: The missionaries selected to participate can go online if they don't have any effort more productive, such as teaching, following up on previous contacts, checking out referrals or meeting or working with members.

    And this e-contacting is expected to be more productive than tracting, so the missionaries are allowed to go to the keyboard before going door-to-door.

  • Or, in social-networking terms, to get connected.

    "We felt that this is where the world is, this is the new 'town square,' " said Ron Wilson, the department's manager of Internet and marketing. "The only way to find out is to test it."

    The preliminary test program — which is currently called "Missionaries on the Internet" — was started in late May in the LDS Church's New York Rochester Mission.

  • Where can I find these pages that he shows. Those are sweet. You know that they'll find evidence that totally fills in all the green squares and there'll still be people saying "I need more proof, THEN I'll believe." They did it to Christ and HE was the Son of God.

  • "These words are not of men nor of man, but of me." - - D&C 18:34

    ..and yet the D&C is written in archaic English and poor grammar. Doesn't God know all languages and can effectively communicate in the English of the day (1830)?

    Apparently not; or JS simply wanted the language to SOUND like it came from God.

  • @hammer7629 And it came to pass... - God seems to say that a lot as well

  • LDS fans sat together in adjacent sections of the lower box corner and the bleachers, in close to slides and the Little Giants Park where young children can run the bases while seeing their image projected on a big screen.

  • Elder Gonzalez to speak at Hispanic young single adult conference

  • Traveling six miles the first day, the teens chanced upon several dramatic vignettes where various adult leaders told stories from the pioneers’ actual journals, encouraging them to have faith, keep going.

  • More than 40 adult leaders helped create the experience for the 63 teens in attendance.

    Each teen was placed into a family with a ma and pa and they immediately created a family banner and a cheer for roll call, receiving skit kits for the Friday night hoe down. The teens cooked every breakfast and supper over open campfire with their families at base camp, whereas lunch was always eaten out on the trail.

  • Scholar's Corner: Why Jesus turned water into wine

  • @omiolo

    Apostle Orson Hyde said the wedding, where Jesus turned water into wine, was his. He said Mary and Martha were among his many wives.

    (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210)

    But, you don't hear much about that from the LDS. LOL

  • @hammer7629 I feel like you are ignoring 99% of what LDS leaders say and quote mining to find the other 1% and then you want me to IGNORE the 99% and embrace your quote mine. Do you think what you are doing is HONEST? Why are you sooo AGAINST honesty?

  • @omiolo

    When you can't defend the words of the Prophets and Apostles, resort to quote mining dodge. What's next, "you are taking his comments out of context." LOL

    Speaking of what is posted.....why do you continue to troll the comments section with all those garbage posts unrelated to the discussion? I feel you are intentionally flooding the comments section to hide what is being discussed. You troll numerous youtube videos....why is that?

  • @hammer7629 this seems to be your way of NOT having to address any issues. You do seem to do well at the hit and runs. Which to me shows that you are UNABLE to think for yourself. What do you have against thinking for yourself?

  • @omiolo

    I post quotes with references. You run and hide. C'mon big mouth, pick a topic and let's debate the issue. I'm ready.....are you? I'd bet money you won't accept the challenge.

  • @hammer7629 come on! ALL you do is IGNORE 99% of what has been said and then quote mine for the 1% that disagrees with the 99% and then want me to believe you are representing truth..... To Mormons, that is DISHONEST, to your types, that is STANDARD practice.

  • @omiolo

    I made the offer for you to pick the topic and debate it, but you are too much of a troll to accept. I'm glad everyone here can see what you truly are. If you ever find the guts to debate, let me know.

  • @hammer7629 Do you live the Standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ?

  • In Capernaum, Jesus seems tangibly attested as a real historical figure. Those who visit are almost certainly walking where Jesus walked

  • One place where the reality of the historical Jesus seems particularly accessible lies on the northwestern shore of Lake Kinneret, the biblical Sea of Galilee. The ruins of ancient Capernaum (Hebrew Kfar Nahum, the "village of Nahum") were identified by the American explorer Edward Robinson in 1838.

  • While views of Jesus vary enormously among specialists (and others) on Christian origins, few (if any) serious scholars of the subject — believers or not — doubt his historical reality. Such denial is largely the province of cranks.

  • When some atheists go beyond simple rejection of God and the deity of Christ to declare that Jesus never existed, they depart decisively from mainstream scholarship

  • In Hong Kong, the choir performed at the gates of Disneyland, and then spent the rest of the day at the theme park enjoying one another’s company.

  • During its two-week tour of Taiwan and Hong Kong, the BYU-Hawaii Concert Choir was able to perform in many venues including three universities, one high school, about six special needs schools, and four elementary schools. The choir took part in a Taiwanese university exchange where it was able to share the Maori haka and the Hawaiian hula and ukulele, as well as learn the Chinese war drum, lion dances, and Chinese rap from the other students

  • Choir tour to Taiwan and Hong Kong builds relationships and testimonies

  • Doors Open visitors saw a draft copy of "The Toronto Branch," 1836 to 1960, by local historian Everett Pallin. One of the highlights of the tour was Mark Mabry's "Reflections of Christ" in the cultural hall.

  • Since its dedication in 1939, the building has had two major additions. The Primary now meets in the area where the original chapel was and the room retains the old stained-glass windows and high ceilings. The original dark oak pulpit with the carved words "Thy Word is Truth" was displayed along with an original bench which some members remembered sticking to during long, hot summer meetings in the days before air-conditioning.

  • Latter-day Saint temples differ from the Church’s meetinghouses or chapels where members meet for Sunday worship services. Temples are considered “houses of the Lord” where Christ's teachings are reaffirmed through marriage, baptism and other ordinances that unite families for eternity. In the temple, Church members learn more about the purpose of life and strengthen their commitment to serve Jesus Christ and those around them.

  • Church youth leaders receive Scouting award

  • That's when Ann Thomas, a talented pianist and cellist, decided to rally other musicians and organize a benefit concert with the help of her parents.

    From arranging a venue to designing the tickets and flyers, Thomas did it all. The concert, "Young Musicians for Haiti," pulled in $4,585 that evening. A few last-minute donations put Thomas over her goal of raising $5,000.

  • Scores of homes in Guatemala's mountainous regions were destroyed by flood water, mud slides and uprooted trees.

  • Counted among the thousands impacted by the natural disasters were young children. The Church has assisted folks of all ages.

  • "We've been energized by the faith of our members; we're going to keep moving forward," he said.

  • Many of the impacted families are subsistence farmers and have been left without a crop to feed their families. The Church is helping to provide replacement seeds and working shoulder-to-shoulder with members to reseed their small plots of land. Elder Clarke said he has been inspired by the efforts of many to emerge from an awful situation.

  • All seven elements are found in Lehi's encounter with the river, valley, and his proclamations to his two eldest sons, and the entire topic of ancient Arabian poetic forms was unknown to young Jacksonian-era Americans like Joseph Smith.

  • @omiolo

    You don't need to tell whoever this was addressed to these facts . They already know the Book of Mormon is true . They just can't stand it cause we are enjoying it and they can't or won't let themselves do the same . Just pray they can overcome their lifestyle , family ties or whatever it is that keeps them from having the same joy we have . Remember the majority if not all of the ''anti Christ in the Book of Mormon really believe what they were saying themselves.

  • @mormonboy08 Meant to say they DIDN'T believe what they were saying .

  • Maurine and Scot Proctor are in the Philippines covering the Cebu City temple dedication. The Philippines has become a significant and rapid place for Church growth and membership, being the fourth largest congregation of Saints in a country (following the United States, Mexico and Brazil).

  • Saturday evening, a cultural celebration was held at which more than 3,000 people between the ages of 12 and 18 retold the rich cultural history of the area through song and dance.

    Prior to the dedication, more than 45,000 people from many faiths were given a guided tour of the temple during a two-week open house.

  • Nestled below the monument and between the missionary residence and the visitor's center, the choir, dressed in red and blue shirts, performed on risers constructed for the event before an audience of over 500.

  • Nicole was one of 230 children and youth, ages five to 18, who came from the Concord New Hampshire and Montpelier Vermont Stakes to perform in Vermont's second annual Hope of America program. The event, which was created to teach and celebrate the principles of patriotism, was performed at the Joseph Smith Birthplace Memorial on Saturday, June 5.

  • Energetic and smiling young men and young women handed visitors large white umbrellas as shelter from the relentless sun bearing down on Cebu Island during what some locals are calling the hottest month in June in many years.

  • On the last day of the open house, June 5, more than 7,215 of the total 45,103 visitors toured the temple. The public open house began May 21.

  • Battlestar Galactica mentions Earth therefore the story of Battlestar Galactica must be true. No golden plates, no proof. You might as well be teaching from the emerald tablet, yet another plate that has been "translated" and never seen.

  • @whanethewhip yeah, if I personally have NOT seen it, it must NOT exist????

  • Just read the 500+ pages and you'll know...not just an intellectual

  • I can't read exactly what it says is confirmed/unconfirmed... however I do know that save the less than impressive civil war prophecy Joe Smith has fallen very short. But look on the bright side, mormonism is as valid as any other religion

  • the book of mormon is 100% fiction. none of it is true.

  • @Svperstarr Really? Lets see YOUR evidence against it. Oh thats right. You're just biased against Mormon's so it has to be false.

  • You are kidding me right? I can't fathom how this individual can look in the mirror after detailing that diatribe of untruth. Can you sleep? Do you have no conscience? Sheesh...

  • Gerrit Walter Gong was born in Redwood City, California, on 23 December 1953. He married Susan Lindsay in January 1980. They are the parents of four children. Elder and Sister Gong reside in Provo, Utah.

  • Would Jesus ever do anything like this? He would never say anything bad to His brotherr.

  • Francily da Graça Parronchi's father was a taxi driver in the Vila Prudente area of Sao Paulo. One day, a couple of Mormon missionaries took his taxi. When they made an appointment to visit the family, her father was happy.

    "He thought they would teach his children more English," Francily says.

    After the first lesson, her father asked if he could be baptized.

    "No, you need more lessons," he was told.

  • Then one night, he went to a church dance, where he saw Francily da Graca Parronchi.

    "I took interest," he says with a smile.

  • I am a mormon,. and love that time is proving some of this- but how exactly is 58% "More than passing marks?"

  • I think for an area where only 1/2 of 1% of Mesoamerican ruins have been excavated, that is a pretty high score.

  • so you're saying that it needs to be judged on a sliding scale? You can only do that if there is something else to compare it to. Do we have fictional stories about the origins of the Natives written in the early to mid 1800s which we can compare the book of mormon with, to see which is being vindicated more? I think THAT would be a good piece of evidence.

  • @Laffopuritain

    No we don't have fictional stories about the natives to compare them with, and that is the problem.

    Joseph Smith could not have made it up.

    There are too many complexities to say it was written by any young man void of any real education, and because of its strange language style, it even bear more proof. Especially since the dead sea scrolls confirm what we've been saying all along.

  • @LDSapologist71 ummmm both of Joseph parents were school teachers, look at your history and explain if it is all true why do you perferate lies ? I never see that only the the white wash, even if it is well the prophet's are just men. DUH! thats an under statement

    The dead sea scrolls confirm the book of Isaiah, which Joseph plagerised.

  • @LDSapologist71

    JS could easily have been the author of the book.

    See B.H. Roberts and the Book of the Hebrews.

    See the plagerism from the Bible.

    See Sidney Rigdon's background.

    See his mother's account of JS's early life and the stories he told BEFORE the supposed visit by angels.

    See the 6+ years between supposedly getting the plates until publishing. That's a long time to make it all up and organize into a finished product.

    That enough or should I continue?

  • @hammer7629 Do you actually believe that? Why have, and still, try to prove something wrong when they believe it is wrong? If it is wrong then let it be. Or is it that these people are afraid that it may be true so they try to prove it wrong so they may be at peace with their conscious? The church is growing and nothing can stop it. It has been prophesied and I know it to be true and so do millions of people. Good luck trying to prove others wrong. You are only wasting time.

  • @Thedavid13holt

    I simply offered information that can explain how JS wrote the BofM. People can look it up themselves and come to their own conclusion. Do you fear that? Is the faith of Mormons so weak they can't handle the entire story; not just the version force fed to the public?

    You "know it's true". LOL Mormons present propaganda and when confronted with information that challenges their claim, they retreat to declaring their testimony.

  • @hammer7629 You know the Book of Mormon is true or you wouldn't be here. Don't know if you are a member having problems , a member that has been left the Church and trying to come back or someone who wants to join but can't won't for some reason . Continue to read the Book of Mormon and you will have the power to overcome ..

  • @hammer7629 You need to read it again . Even though you may have read it 8 or 9 times . There is no way it could come about other than being translated by the gift and power of our Heavenly Father .

  • Comment removed

  • Comment removed

  • @Thedavid13holt They know it's true or they wouldn't be here. They are like someone who likes a girl that works at the mall . They go in and ''troll '' up and down the aisles hoping someone will push them into her. Same with them . They know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true but their lifestyle , family ,longtime membership in another church keeps them from joining . So like you said they do the sour grapes thing since they can't have it . Hopefully they'll get the nudge.

  • @Thedavid13holt

    "If it is wrong then let it be. ".....Joseph Fielding Smith disagrees with you about that.

    "If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false,....." (D. of S. Vol. 1, p. 188).

    Since Mormon Doctrine condemns all other religions, Mormons should not be surprised nor offended when people challenge their claims

  • @fairldsorg Spasti.

  • @Laffopuritain

    Too much left undone, The guy who excavated the City of Mirador said there "thousands" of temples that have not been found yet. When you consider Mirador was the size of downtown LA and it took so long to find it - it's easy to see that much work remains. God bless

  • @Laffopuritain what proof is there? NONE only a familar feeling it still holds no water.

  • @Laffopuritain Yeah LDS stands for lucifers demonic servants, go hail your prophet of satan joseph smith

  • reading through some of these comments, I find it sad that alot of the christians and mormons don't give each other a chance, they both believe in christ, why can't we be brothers? I love mormons, I love Christians because I love Christ, mormons believe in it, just as much as protistants and Catholics do, as well as all the other sects. Why are we arguing amongst ourselves? I find it sad. If you don't want to give mormon's a chance for yourself, then don't hurt someone who has and vica-versa.

  • @duffusd

    I will give you a hint. INSTITUTIONALISM (or my Church is better than your Church). Christianity is simple, put your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Humans have the tendency of taking something simple and turning it into a complicated problem. This institutionalizing a belief has led to fights over doctrine, scripture interpretation, practices, and a multitude of other things.

  • When I laid on my cot in the darkness later that night, I pondered on the undeniable promptings of the Spirit that had directed me in ways I had never before experienced with such consistency, helping me, and others as well, at every step in this work of getting children to their families. Then for a moment, it was as though I could hear thousands of voices and thousand of prayers crying out for their children in this desperate time of need.

  • "We are family-oriented, and we believe families can be together forever," Muck said. "We are able to baptize by proxy for the dead. We cannot baptize anybody but our own ancestors, and they have the right of acceptance or rejection."

    "It's our duty to do this," said Elder Kason Gubler, a Mormon missionary in Columbiana. "Christ did the proxy work for us through atonement."

  • @omiolo

    "We cannot baptize anybody but our own ancestors".

    That is a lie. Jews from the Holocaust and even Nazis have been vicariously baptized. Remember Ted Bundy, he was baptized under his real name; Theodore Robert Cowell.

    Don't believe me, search for yourself.

  • @hammer7629 That is a LIE. Some ANTImormon, probably Helen Radkey forged those documents. After it was found out they were removed. How sad you must be to support the work of DISHONEST people like Helen Radkey!

  • @omiolo

    A lie? A forgery? ....Hardly

    "Yesterday, Mormon authorities said they would reissue a four-year-old order prohibiting church members from including Jewish Holocaust victims in baptismal ceremonies." Note the word "reissue" in the Church's statement. The practice continues even though they proclaim it has stopped. You've been drinking the Kool-Aid too long to see the truth.

  • @hammer7629 I notice how you CONVENIENTLY side stepped HELEN RADKEY! Oh, the games your types play!

  • @omiolo

    No sidestep, I don't know anything about Helen Radkey. What I did was quote the OFFICIAL CHURCH SPOKESMAN. They got caught lying because they say one thing in public but do something else in private. It's been the hallmark of the LDS church since it's inception. One of the most documented concerned the practice of polygamy. The lies are documented in the Congressional Record (Reed Smoot Case). You make accusations; I state facts that can be verified. 

  • @hammer7629 if you do NOT know ANYTHING about Helen Radkey, then you are TOO ignorant to broach the subjects you mentioned. You know LESS than ten percent of the facts. IGNORANCE does NOT have to ALWAYS be your mantra!

  • @omiolo Knowledge of this Radkey person is a requirement and I'm ignorant and it's my mantra? Ad hominem attacks are a sign of weakness; stick to facts rather than attacks.

  • @hammer7629 learn the FACTS so you do NOT have to take it personal EVERY TIME someone points out how IGNORANT you are!

  • @omiolo

    Not offended or taking it personal, just reminding everyone who reads this to take note of your tactics.

    Who was the family member of Jesus Christian that performed the temple endowments and had his "wife", Mary Magdalena, sealed to him on June 9, 2010?

  • @hammer7629 nice try slick guy. I looked on the official records and NO TEMPLE ordinances are done for a Jesus Christian. Is that Helen's next goal to try and get them put int there and then blame it on Mormons?

  • @omiolo

    "I looked on the official records and NO TEMPLE ordinances are done for a Jesus Christian."

    Knowing you would probably say that, I've got a print screen of the page in the database.

    What's next, accuse someone of faking it?

  • @hammer7629 Anyone can put in any name they want . I have seen the work pending for Hitler and Braum but that doesn't mean the Lord doesn't have a say . If someone wants to submit an odd couple , rather than take the chance on rejecting a deserving couple the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints will most likely let it go through knowing the Lord had the final say on the other side .

  • @hammer7629 Why are you here anyway . Are you a member , were you a member or weren't you able to overcome something that kept you from joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I hope you can overcome whatever it is and join rejoin the Church . You know the Book of Mormon is true or you wouldn't waste your time here. We'll look forward to seeing you at church . The 99 and the 1 .

  • @hammer7629 Not sure . May of been submitted and done in a foreign language and got by . Who knows. The fact is someone can submit and do work for anyone on this side of the veil but that doesn't have any effect on the Lord and what he does with it . We don't have power over someone on the other side . We do the work for them so it is there if they want to accept it or not . These could be real modern day people named after their counterparts someone put together .

  • @omiolo

    Since you harp on this Radkey person, I did a search to learn more about her. She certainly is a vocal critic of the practice. The only issue is whether her claims are accurate. If accurate, you have no foundation to criticize her. If not, please post proof she is lying.

    Thanks

  • @hammer7629 yeah, I guess Mark Hoffman was a vocal critic too.....

    pull your head out!

  • @omiolo

    "yeah, I guess Mark Hoffman was a vocal critic too..pull your head out!"

    Mark Hofmann was a con man and a murderer and if your church's prophets, seerers, and revelators had pulled their head out, two innocent people might be alive today. The picture of Hofmann with Kimball the apostles examining his forgery tells it all.  They were clueless. Where were those spiritual powers of discernment that would keep them from being led astray?

    A church founded by a con man gets conned.

  • @hammer7629 please do NOT try and rewrite history. Helen Radkey is a conwoman, bitter, divorced and forsaked because of her bitterness and desire to ATTACK at ALL costs the Mormons. Maybe she does NOT sit in a physical jail alone like Hoffman, but she still sits in a jail alone like hoffman.

  • @omiolo

    Church News 5/3/80 published a picture of Hofmann with Kimball (examining his fake document with a magnifying glass) and surrounded by Apostles. The official Church Manual states "The gift of discernment enables a bishop or branch president to know truth, to understand the differences between good and evil, and even to know what is in a person’s heart. " If they had such a gift, they could have stopped Hofmann

    The church was founded by a con man and the leaders were conned...FACT

  • Add'l quotes from official church sources:

    It is abundantly clear that presiding priesthood leaders are given the gift of discernment."

    - Elder Gene R. Cook, “Seek Out Your Spiritual Leader,” Ensign, May 1978, 64

    "Countless are the devious ways of stealing. Fortunate indeed are they who, through righteous living and the gift of discernment, can clearly distinguish between honesty and dishonesty."

    - Apostle Marion G. Romney, “A Glorious Promise,” Ensign, Jan. 1981, 2

  • @hammer7629 you are being DECEPTIVE. The LDS Church agreed to meet with him ONLY after EVERY scholarly expert said they were real. President Kimball DECLINED to buy that document. At that same time one member of the 1st presidency said **However, at this point we accept the judgment of the examiner that there is no indication that it is a forgery. This does not preclude the possibility that it may have been forged ** Prophets ONE Scholars ZERO

  • @omiolo

    You are either ignorant or not telling the truth.

    FACT...The LDS Church announced the discovery of the Anthon Transcript and purchased it from Hofmann for more than USD$20,000 (See Wiki page with sources noted)

    What happened to their "gift of discernment" that can clearly distinguish between honesty and dishonesty?

  • @hammer7629 why don't you read what I wrote, this time focusing on COMPREHENSION. Also please STOP with the bait and switch, while I understand it is necessary in your line of work. I find it to be DISHONEST.

  • @omiolo

    I read what you wrote; did you read mine? You are either ignorant or a liar. Check the photo published in the Church News and compare it to the Wiki page.

    Why do you continue to run from documented facts? They did business with Hofmann. Fact. They examined his material. Fact.

    The question remains: What happened to their "gift of discernment" that can clearly distinguish between honesty and dishonesty? I'll bet money you won't answer. LOL

  • @hammer7629 You are either WAY over your head and that is why you are using WIKIPEDIA as your source or you are WILLFULLY playing bait and switch with me! Either way it shows lacking on your part.

  • @omiolo

    The Wiki source is Robert Lindsey. Anyone reading his book will learn it includes an interview with Michael George of the Salt Lake County Attorney’s Office and also the "State of Utah v. Mark W. Hofmann" complaint; which states the LDS church purchased ELEVEN documents from Hofmann.

    It will be funny to see how you run from that. LOL

    They met with him. They did business with him. Where was the Prophet's and Apostles' "gift of discernment"?

  • 1st Statement:

    LDS General Conference, October 1960, Kimball made these comments:

    "I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people . . . they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people. . . . For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised . . . The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.