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  • HUMAN TORTURE – WEAPONS & MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTATION – USA Satellite Surviellance --  In New York

    15 Round hill Rd Dobbs Ferry NY 10522

  • HEY WHAT THE FUCK

    USA LIKE A DOG REVENGE ALL ARABIAN HUMAN AND THEY ARE NOT TERRORIST

    WIERD!!

  • you people are retarded. these are American killers and people who commit crimes against humanity fkrs.

  • @xXxLORD187xXx  WRONG YANKEE FUCKTARD. There's no evidence against any of these people. It's cunts like you who have locked them up without charge, without trial, without evidence. I hope you rot in hell, with the rest of your worthless cunt country.

  • unfortunate.

    I hope americans understand that these sort of acts will only increase hatred against them and will only welcome trouble and extremism.

  • @2shuvro Americans? Understand? What would the DUMBEST nation on earth "understand"? Americans are SCUM, they understand NOTHING, they are a SHIT nation of Nazi scum.

  • during history americans have opressed all races i am against the white supremacy and the american mentality i respect these people 

  • In Solidarity for truth and Justice

    Google the words: Joe Anybody Torture

  • Thanks for your efforts and your information for the truth and for Human rights of others

    Solidarity = Love

    Peace & Justice

    ~joe anybody

  • close Guantanamo

    stop torture!!

    imagine yourself in their position!!!

    NAZIS tortured people too!

    it is outrageous

    even criminals deserve fair trial!!

  • DEATH TO AMERICA!!!!!!!!!

  • @ Ektaawasthi u sound like a stupid ignorant prick who watches fox news.

  • Close Guantanamo NOW!!!

    STOP torture!!!

    poor people

    imagine yourself in their position

    NAZI tortured people too

    and many of them are innocent!!!

  • @Ektaawasthi

    bush took the towers down, and cheney got rich. those fools are there for idiots like YOU to FEEL safe. the CIA funds Al Queda, so do you hate the US too? It's the same thing, different branch... Al Queda is the excuse to invade any country from now on. I hope your mom dies slowly.

  • @Ektaawasthi with all due respect...the only way u may end up facing another 9/11 is by keeping shits like guantanamo open.

  • @911insidejob81 This people received the just

  • @911insidejob81 there is no torture there. Geneva conventions doesn't allow it dmbazz

  • @xXxLORD187xXx

    Murder is illegal as well, and that happens everyday. Try using your fucking brain

  • They have a McDonald's, Subway and Dominoes outside the gates of hell, no one has any reason to doubt capitalism would lead to destruction of human rights and proliferation of fascism. When you can get two all beef patties & Special sauce while hearing the satisfying screams of America's enemy's writhing in justified agony your reality must be intensely sublime.

  • please STOP torture and close Guantanamo!!

    iamgien yourself in thier position!!

    please STOP it now

    FAIR trial and close this nazi prison

  • ISLAM VS masons and zionists

    i bet my life with ISLAM !!

    US needs to educate itself and learn what is really going on.

    reason muslims are being targeted by a lying media is that all media are controlled by a few bankers that want to wipe the world to only 500 million rich people and peasants with no rights .

    STOP them before they torture all of mankind !!!

  • Masons and zionist BANKERS that own america can TORTURE as much as they want and kill as much as they want

    ILL ALWAYS REMAIN MUSLIM !!!

    ALLAHU AKBAR!!!

    GO TO HELL WORLD GOVERMENT TAKE YOUR TRASHY BANKS WITH YOU MASONS TRASH !!

    Islam will overcome all your challenges and your world goverment dreams will end in the dust !!!

  • please STOP torture!!

    imagine yourself in their position- held in horrible prison and without fair court!!!

    STOP torture!

  • Comment removed

  • cottoncandy, The flu kills more Americans every year than terrorist have in 20 years. People die from car accidents at alarming rates (tens of thousands every year).

    I don't fear terrorists. I fear christian more for their ridiculous positions and attempts to instill the beliefs on me as an American Veteran. We were attacked in 1993 and 2001 because we are always fucking around with the middle east in one way or another. We should get the hell out of the middle east, period.

  • do you know how many terrorist you the did produce in guantanmo - muslims and arrabs around the worl are verry much pissed of no and when the priinors get finaly released, they are just fucked and they got nothing to loos anymore - youe americans have produced time bombs ......

  • This guy, along with many others are locked up in horrible conditions for years! Sure some people are terrorist, but why does it take this long to free the innocent. In this case, and in cases with American citizens found guilty of crimes they did not comment.

  • How can you Republican conservatives not see how much the last administration messed up, not only at Guantanamo, but altogether, Stop being mad republican's and admit that your conservative ways are old and out-dated!

  • So, you speak for all the troops, Munioo? Who elected you to that job? They didn't. I'm a vet and *I* wouldn't presume to speak for all the troops. And if I were going to elect someone to speak for me, I wouldn't choose an inarticulate, crude BOY who tells Americans they haven't the right to free speech. You're right, this argument is going nowhere.

  • If you never fought in the middle east like our troops are now, then your opinion on obama, government, gitmo, and our troops is shit. Fuck off ignorant stubborn democrats.

  • "If you never fought in the middle east"

    WRONG ! I don't have to fight anywhere you backwards ape ! You commit a crime , you face the law ! Them , us , EVERYONE ! The people who committed this crime against this man should face the law just like any criminal ! If you don't like the constitution of the US of A GET OUT OF THE OUR COUNTRY ! Braindead neocon murder !

  • exactly my point, your opinion doesn't matter, you talk shit about how if i don't like the constitution then gtfo of this country yet you haven't even fought for this country where as i have. how can you tell me someone who faught for YOUR freedom what to fuckin do? this is why i stated my arguement fuckup.

  • nn ya i said faught, kinda sounded better at the time heh, go ahead and maik phun uf my grammar.

  • Why is is that there is a HUGE misunderstanding that yall are fighting for our freedom. NO YOU FUCKING AREN'T. You are fighting for Iraqi freedom and reform. I get so pissed when people say that. You are fighting for people in the middle east. NOT AMERICANS.

  • yall, dead give away that you good sir, are a redneck.

  • The people who sent our troops there, namely Bush and Cheney, never served either. Bush hid out in the ANG during Vietnam (at least McCain had the guts to go there) and Cheney never served at all. BTW, I'm an honorably discharged veteran and I agree with Darlie.

    BTW, if you're saying that only veterans have the right to free speech, then you're not honoring your pledge to preserve and protect and defend our Constitution and are instead acting more like one of its internal enemies.

  • you don't even know my fuckin arguement, so how can you even state your arguement against mine? i'm talking about the dumfuck democrats that decided bush was a bad person and that we must pull out our troops yet they don't know what us troops want, they just care about their own personal needs! maybe you should go down and re-read my first post because this arguement is going nowhere.

  • 03/19/09 (AP)

    Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Many detainees locked up at Guantanamo were innocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants, a former Bush administration official said Thursday. "There are still innocent people there," Lawrence B. Wilkerson, a Republican who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, told The Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years."

  • the prisoner's at Gitmo were part of the international terrorist movement of Al Queada.trained on Afghani soil for international terrorism under the leadership of the outlawed Taliban who turned a blind eye to their activities. They should be sent back to to Afghan where it all began under the jurisdiction of our troops and tried by their govt (much like Saddam Husseun) To try them on American soil is foolish & dangerous.

  • USA is the richest third-world country

  • People were outraged,even the people in Mexico when I was there on my vacation were outraged by this also,about the torture.

  • Is it the sign of a dying regime to try to protect itself at all costs? I would think that it has become a Medusa with many heads: Every time they cart off another man to these illegal prison camps, a hundred more will spring up to take up the battle.

    There is not one Al-Kaida any more but hundreds -each group pissed off at something America or Israel has done - and since they cannot expect justice they might as well go down taking as many with them as they can.

  • Actually, you don't watch the news. Last time I was in Iraq, all of the other Iraqi groups switched sides and were helping the US kill Al-Qaeda. Now they police their own areas, and they are happy to live in peace.

    I know you'd love it if chaos continued, but it's actually being dealt with. Other arabs see the successful example of Iraq and are abandoning terrorist thoughts.

  • You tryin' to make you some of that terrorist money there LAWYER?

  • I'm an American, and i can honestly say i am ashamed of the way my country is heading. We used to be a nation that regarded freedom as the one and only truth, however now we are trading constitutional rights for "security". As i recall Our Fore Fathers said "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" not Give me Liberty or at Least a Safe Place to do Whatever the Hell i Want

  • Ugh, government itself is security, you moron. If our fore fathers wanted complete liberty, they wouldn't have established a government at all. Quit being a stupid fuck.

    "A Safe Place to do Whatever the Hell I want" Sounds like liberty to me. What are you talking about?

  • Obama will make america better,

  • no stupid. Not citizenship. You idiot

  • y'all need to watch "the road to guantanamo"

    whether the "detainees" are guilty or not...how can Americans preach freedom and justice while allowing the evil that's been happening at Guantanamo? Hypocrisy....that's all it is.

  • They are really taking the wrong people and the real terrorist then where are they . I believe that Mr Bush is a terrorist.

  • And USA talk about democratic,,, Maaan,, Fuck democratic and fuck Bush and all who love him.

    USA and israel is those 2 that makes people terrorist and a bad World.

  • I learned about this video after reading Steven Wax's 'Kafka Comes to America,' which provides an examination of the case against Adel and other innocent people who were locked away without due process. Its a horror, and I hope it is not forgotten. I'm not shocked by the lack of empathy for those that are wrongly imprisoned, but it is saddening that the history of mankind is consistently punctuated by these types of things.

  • Can Americans do whatever they like without beeing punished? how can you lock someone away just for being muslim? smells like a huge crime against humanity to me...

  • Guantanamo is only a " FARM-Laboratory " for wash braining and produce others KAMIKAZE ; kamikaze are important for the usa imperialism and invasion war agenda! without kamikaze and taleban,what is usa war ? only an invasion for oil concquest! more kamikaze and more taliban and usa invasion isn t so beast! this is THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY; enclosed in this Illuminati Agenda,there is the "Controlled Demolition" of USA and Israel as the only obstacle at the New World Order !

  • War agenda? You've got it all wrong.

  • Njrocks281,America suppose to be example 4 the rest of the world you admitting the tourture that is going on in gitmo,this is what we was expecting out side of USA.

    90% of those who are in the hands of #1democratic country are realy innocent.

  • I highly doubt that 90% are innocent. Maybe you think we should just bring them here to the U.S. and give them citizenship. Will that make you happy?

  • I love the way people gets out of control

    by a video they had to analize and give a point of view about.

    They start babbling about other things that lead to the same problem with all of us the lak of respect to others religions or ideas, like supreme gods that we all think we are. how patetic.

  • Again, your wrong. Ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty?" What ever happened to that? News flash you idiot, you can't hold people for years on end as a suspect. Charge them or let them go. Who's the real terrorist now? George W. Bush. I've given pretty dang clear reasons to close Guantanamo. Anybody in their right mind would say close it. I think that you just don't want to be proven wrong. Man are you dumb.

  • he was joking and he was singing, he was playing volleyball, so he must be innocent.

    go screw yourselves.

  • The rule is innocent until proven guilty- not guilty until proven innocent.

  • bush has create a image of united states that will cost years to change it, im not from usa but all the things that happen in usa affect the rest of the world. if i would be a citizen of the united states i would fight against the goverment

  • The Denial of Habeas Corpus to any man or woman is the proof of a GODLESS GOVERNMENT!

    Habeas Corpus concepts go back to the Magna Carta in the 1200's ... has our US law put us back into the midevil times? When will Americans be in the camp with these people for not protesting the loss of our Constitution under the illegal laws passed by our government since 9-11?

    Did our govt go to war with out enemies or the US people with all of the loss of our rights?

  • Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    — The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution, passed by Congress January 31, 1865, ratified December 6, 1865.

  • CHIUDERE GUANTANAMO ORA

  • I am doing a report on Habeas Corpus and it was focused on Guantanamo Bay i learned alot and our government is very corrupt. BUsh has to go since he is the judge and jury in these cases.. Hes the one who could have stopped 9/11 but didnt and he is the one who heled Osama Bin Ladens family leave America after the bombing

  • BUSH BLAIR AZNAR Should be in jail. The use nuclear rubish to kill civils kids and whoever gets in their way to oil...and we have to belive they do it for our freedom?

    I dont think noone in Gtmo has by far made the same number of killings and tortures they have had. So shut up and please go free your fucking country and let us live in our unfreedom please!

  • Adel sounds like a genuinely nice guy. What a shame he's been targeted by the Bush Administration's witch hunt. :(

  • We have committed war crimes that should never be pardoned. Bush is on a witch hunt; he's going after Arabs, just as Hitler went after the Jews. I beg Americans to listen to the rest of the world, but as always, we, Americans, always ignore the entire world and think we are right.

  • The American people are completely unaware of what is going on in the real world. We have been deceived and lied to at all levels of the American government.

  • Our government freed this guy in December. This guy WAS NOT a soldier or terrorist. Stop watching Fox news

  • Go ahead and shoot someone, so you can be locked up where you belong. You're the scum of the Earth.

  • What gives us Americans the right to target everybody who is different than us? I can promise you that these prisoners get treated MUCH worse than American prisoners. It's one thing if we were to be detaining known terrorists then that would be one thing, but we aren't. We are detaining anybody and everybody that Bush thinks looks like a terrorist. They get the same treatment as terrorists. Bush is just another Hitler, and what did we do? Re-elect him.

  • fuck you, you stupid fagot. American prisoners get fucking executed. These fucking detainees can get ass fucked for all I care. They get a good meal, and a place to sleep. Much better than American prisoners.

  • These detainees get beaten and humiliated every day. They get denied food and deprived of sleep. How many meals a day do American prisoners get? Do you know anything about American prison systems, because you clearly know nothing about Guantanamo. Do you know how many Gitmo detainees have every been convicted of a crime? One. One out of hundreds. How would you like to be picked up from your home town and tortured day in and day out for years, and then just be let go with not even a POW status?

  • again your an idiot. They get the same food US soldiers get, with Muslim accommodations. They get their prayers, and their religious requirements. So the fuck what if they get sleep deprivation..its better than being beheaded like Americans get. Wake up you little bitch, the world isn't candyland.

  • I'm the idiot? So you call cell-switches in the middle of their prayer times "getting their prayers"? You call a Qur'an with pages torn out thrown in the same bucket they use to go to the bathroom "religious requirements"? When was the last time an American prisoner got beheaded?? Yes, maybe they do occasionally when they are POW's. But that's terrorism, now isn't it? So let's fight terrorism with more terrorism. That really makes a lot of sense doesn't it? And you think I'm the idiot?

  • they get treated just fine, considering what many of them are accused of doing. Wake up kid.

  • I think you're the one who needs to wake up. Basically, these people are picked up as our troops go along. Then our government decides what they want to accuse them of. Then they come up with lies and torture the detainees until they talk. As I've already said once, only one detainee has ever been convicted of a crime. Why don't you try waking up? I think that you don't want to face the problems in the world because that way you never have anything to be concerned about.

  • its not only one detainee you stupid assed bitch. Its a bunch of em. They are not just picked up either. Many of them are very well known, and have been sough after for a long time. Stop being a little liberal fagot pansy.

  • You know absolutely nothing about Guantanamo. Only one detainee has ever been charged with a crime, and that was the resault of a highly-questionable plea bargain. Why do you bother try to argue when you know nothing about what your arguing about? Do you know anything about the Geneva Conventions or Habeas Corpus? You can't hold and torture people for years on end without even giving them a proper trial, you idiot.

  • Yeah only one charged, as in found guilty by a court you stupid ass. God damn, your a fucking moron. They are almost all suspected of serious crimes. Or plotting to commit crimes, or assisting those who do. Wake up asshole.

  • "Suspected", so THEY say, why the fuck would they admit to holding and torturing innocent people? You fucking retard. Have you even seen the countless interviews with people who were released that were found innocent? Do you have any clue what they did to these people? Do some fucking research outside of Fox News before you open your fucking mouth next, or I'll fucking slap it shut.

  • i dont watch fox you little girl, I watch BBC, a station more fuckign liberal than even piece of shit CNN. O big deal so they are deprived of sleep and water boarded..boohoo lets go cry for them. Americans get fucking beheaded so go suck your own cock you bitch.

  • Are you still arguing over thie NJRocks281?? YOU'RE WRONG! ADMIT IT! When was the last time an American Prisoner got beheaded? Idiot....Your the type of person that gives America a bad rep.

  • Only a few years an American was beheaded you stupid ass bitch. Two American soldiers were found with bullet holes in their heads just recently. This has happened many times. They were captured by insurgents, the same fucking people we are trying to put in gitmo. Go hug a tree you cowardly whore.

  • Big difference between being captured by the US government and being captured by insurgents. Americans don't get beheaded in US prisons. Americans don't get tortured in American prisons, why should Muslims get tortured? How come if an American doesn't get a fair trial, people freak out. Now there about 355 Muslims that aren't getting any trials at all , but idiots like you don't care at all. You have no clue how sick you make me.....and I'm sure you have that effect on many people.

  • not everyone in gitmo is a muslim you dumb fuck. Actually most people agree with me as well. You make me sick with your hippie bullshit. If this was 100 years ago, they would have been hanged by now. Instead they are given a nice cell, their clothes are washed, and they get free meals. Man up you pansy.

  • First of all, you moron, this isn't 100 years ago. What is a war on terror, if you're just going to capture the "terrorists" and torture them until you get sick of them, then let them go? Second of all, THEIR CELLS AREN'T NICE. They are literally a cage, most of them time not even a bed, and when there is, it's cement. The only reason their clothes are washed is because they are forced to urinate and mess in them. They are forced to eat their meals of the ground. You tool. You know nothing.

  • Once again, you don't know what you're talking about so just shut up. Tell me, why am I mentally challenged because they have to eat their meals off the ground? Sleep deprivation and water boarding isn't torture? What are you on? They do more than that in Guantanamo. If their dietary needs are met, what about the times when they force the detainees to eat pork? If they don't, they beat them? It's more than a slap on the face. You're a total failure at life, nobody likes you, so just shut up.

  • LOL dude spare us the bullshit. Just say it: American blood is more expensive than any other blood. Because that's what your bottom line is.

    Idiot. You're no different than any other terrorist.

  • I agree to mcates101,

    American commited crime in the Philippines and Japan for killing and raping they are not bieng inprisoned in in this country but they are brought to U.S for thier prosecution.. while one Filipino commited crime to the American in the Philippines he is brought to U.S too, to be prosecuted....

  • WRONG, you stupid fuck. Where did you get your info from, let me guess, the american government controlled media...? Yeah, the government has also said that the guards treat the prisoners with respect and they reason with them nicely to extract information. You are such a stupid fucker.

  • Yeah, like in Abu Gharaib.

  • You are a delusional fucking moron. It does not matter what someone accuses you of, it is innocent until PROVEN guilty. They have not found one single person guilty of any terrorist crimes at Gitmo. You are the one that needs to fucking wake up and stop being so fucking brainwashed by your government. Asshole.

  • your the one whose brainwashed you liberal fuckbag, plenty of them have been convicted of terrorist activities. Those people are treated quite well, considering the crimes they have been accused of. They are not just random people you stupid fucking prick, they are a few hundred of the potentially most dangerous people the US military has detained. Grow a pair of balls you stupid pansy. You live in a bubble of stupidity. This is how the world has always worked. Welcome to planet earth.

  • Yeah, you see, then you'd be another stupid fucking over-zealous idiot who acted without thinking, quite typical in America, actually. You would then be a murderer, you stupid fucker. Only one person ever has officially been found guilty of something from Gitmo. They torture innocent people there you stupid cunt. Please rot in hell you fucking piece of shit.

  • no I wouldn't be a murderer, they are not murdered they are roughed up a bit, then after some of them are released they go crying to the media for sympathy. You can go rot in hell, your the murderer, if you want a list of the most dangerous people in US possession released, then you can go swallow a knife. Fucking Hippie piece of trash.

  • The most difficult thing in the world, is to explain to an american that he is brainwashed!

  • I think we are all brainwashed. The hole world is brainwashed the are gonna play us against each other.We are like a chess game to them. Much more exciting to play with living pawns then plastic of wood. We are all the same DNA don't make them believe us we are different with there divide and conquer trick.

  • PERSIA WAS IRAQ HAD HALF THE WORLD..at one time

  • are shall i say iraq ... iran

  • The first cities on earth were in Iraq: Ur, Uruk but also Babylon with it's hanging gardens and Susa. Despite his obvious downsides Saddam tried to restore the heritage, as keeping the country in some order. But after wars and the US kind of order I can Imagine there isn't much left.

  • Let me enlighten you stupidAmerican, The age of enlightenment is a filosophical period from +- 1700-1800 were roughly todays ideas about peoples rights, science and secularisation come from. Your founding fathers were enlightened, as was Rousseau. I guess they didn't teach you that at the trailer homeschooling.

  • The Stupidamerican: you sound like a ten year old keyboard commando. YOU people make me laugh; separating people into "classes" based on imaginary borders. It really blows my mind that you can be so loud and so annoying, and spend SO much time typing spam-crap to people. Do you think negative attention is the same as attention? Just curious.

  • The point is, stupidamerican, that before suggesting Iraq to be uncivilised, realise that your own country has a short history and not exactly the centre of culture of the world. Wereas Iraq is actualy the origin of all civilisation on earth. But you are so chauvinistic and undereducated that you wouldn't know or care. You can't imagine anything better than 'good old America'.

  • Stupid American, Did they really cut in history clases in the US? The first cities and large civilisations in the world ever were in IRAQ!

  • You see it wrong, I defend our common heritage of the age of enlightenment, our common values. The guys of 9/11 are dead. 9/11 is not a good excuse for torturing possible innocent people. Unless you rather live in a nazi style dictatorship. Scared people are often rather part of something strong, than something good. Bush knows that.

  • This has nothing to do with my feelings. We civilised countries agreed on what is right and what is wrong. Because of the arbitraryness in the past we agreed that an accused must be trialed and is innocent untill proven otherwise. Up till now only dictators ignored this. The US with its conservative christianity is undoing the age of enlightenment. Your founding fathers turn in their grave.

  • You are making excuses for the current situation. Does it make you feel better? Guantanamo is wrong!

  • Ther is no such thing. However, the current situation, where a lot of people of a very rich country have little or no acces to healthcare, due to the powerfull position insurance company, has led to the debate wether the federal government has some responsibility into shaping the right environment. In anarchy the strongest is right, but that is a third world situation.

  • Simple, the tax dollar that is spend on the military or subcontractors, is not spend on healthcare or education or New Orleans. Ordinary Americans are those who do not hold large amounts of shares of Haliburton, blackwater or companies alike. This war is actually a way of putting community money into private hands.

  • Things like Guantanamo will all come out in the wash though. I suppose you can look at it as America investing and developing the next 9/11, because thats exactly what it is. Theres no way theyll top 9/11 though. That was a serious work of art.

  • Ordinary American civilians pay, for the profit of the American upper class.

  • To talk about politics is not a reason to put people into prison. In that case were Bush todays us-president the first prisoner! Or not?

  • The USA sickens me.

  • Amnesty International Join us outside the U.S. Consulate in Sydney's Martin Place at 8am on Friday 11 January 2008. Meet our new National Director, members and staff as we call for the U.S. to immediately shut down Guantanamo Bay. Take part in the largest orange jumpsuit action in Australia.

  • King, I have no objection to joining your cause, if you will take the detainees to Australia. You can let them loose on your streets or keep them locked up, whatever. I'd also like to support Amnesty International when they expend as much energy defending the victims of the Gitmo detainees as they do for this bunch of terrorist killers. What is wrong with you people? Kiss the behinds of those sworn to kill you, your mom, your children, your culture and your freedoms.

  • Konagu, if you leave it to the goodwill of government officials to decide who is guilty, you get instand wrondoings, that's why we civilised people have laws to protect us from that. Now you can see that a LOT of people have been sold to the US by Afghan warlords and are innocent, but are tortured nevertheless. Habeas corpus was to prevent that. You do not differentiate between apprehended and guilty.

  • Max, Habeas Corpus is for the protection of accused criminals suspected of crimes on US soil or in US jurisdiction. It does not protect illegal enemy combatants. I'm all in favor of letting the detainees go if you will take them in Holland.

  • Konagu, there you go, How do you know if somebody is an 'illegal enemy combattant'? because a warlord, who get's paid a piece, said so? Habeas corpus excists by the way in all civilised countries. The law system is there to protect the innocent. By excluding situations or people from it you are sliding towards dictatorship and fashism.

  • Max, You failed to answer if you will welcome the detainees to live down the street from you in Holland.

    If released, and any of these guys blow up a deli in Amsterdam killing a bunch of people including your neighbor's child, what will you say to your neighbor? Do you believe they are all innocent? That even if they say they would like to kill you will you not believe them?

  • Konagu, We can be very shure most of the detenees in Guantanamo will have a slight feeling of anti Americanism by now. But that is completely their fault. Those barbarians do not apreciate the firm, but loving hand that teaches American democracy to them.

  • Max, So do you welcome the detainees to Holland? You still ignore the question.

    I'm am confident that their anti-Americanism was profound long before their arrival in Getmo. How do you imagine they (or those who share their world view) would be treating American, or Dutch detainees? (ask Daniel Pearle's wife). Or ask Theo van Gough's son. These guys are your enemies if you believe in free speech and self-determination.

  • Konagu, religious fundamentalist are indeed our enemy. But more dangerous is the leading class of a very big country that succesfully circumvented the US constitution and showing fashist tendencies, since they have more power. This whole thing started decades before 9/11 with the CIA getting to much power and a free hand in operations. Who is dangerous, the guy with the carbomb or the guy with the atombomb?

  • Max, still no answer, will you welcome these guys to Holland?

    And please, as a US Constitutional scholar, what part of the US Constitution has been circumvented? FYI the CIA has been in decline since Jimmy Carter's gutting of the agency in the 70s. Decades ago, the CIA was a small impotent agency, evidenced by it's failure to anticipate the Iranian Islamic revolution.

  • Konagu, to answer your question: Turn the situation around and see if your logic still works. How do the innocent people feel who have been mistreated and tortured and killed by Americans for decades, just for economic interests. To be safe we would have to detain 'those fashist Americans'. Kill 'em all. See the flaw in your logic? That's how 9/11 happened.

  • Max, In order to see a flaw in ones logic given your example, would require one to agree with your premise. For that to happen, you must prove your premise. Can you please tell me who the Americans have allegedly tortured and killed for decades?

  • Konagu, Part doctrine during the cold war was that the USA would rather have a pro USA dictatorship than a pro Soviet Democracy. The CIA was given a carte blanche, to install puppet regimes. If possible the CIA would fund locals and 'inspire' them and train them. Greece had it's democracy replaced by a colonel's regime. For the Greeks a period of torture and supression emerged. They still 'like 'Americans for that.

  • Max, In every case, from Cuba to Nicaragua, Chile, the regimes that followed the "evil" US supported regimes were far worse than those replaced. Is there free press in Cuba? was there under Ortega in Nicaragua? How about under Chavez in Venezuela? The US Gov'ts job is to first protect US interests, but we do strive to spread prosperity and democracy. Freedom haters don't like it.

  • Konagu, Under the US supported dictatorships there was no freedom. (under the patriotact neither) And the regimes that followed were not always worse. That's what they told you. Talliban with it's drugs trade, were a creation of the CIA to frustrade the Soviets. In Cuba, in spite of the US economic blokkade people can go university and have free health care.

  • Max, the Taliban was a creation of Saudi financed maddrassas in Pakistan. The Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1988-1989. The Taliban entered in 1994 and took control of the country in 1996. Why is it that Muslims want to blame everything on the CIA or Israel? And If you need heart surgery, do you want to have it done in Cuba or the USA? Free does not mean good.

  • Konagu, if I want heart surgery, but I am poor, I better not live in the USA, despite years of economic blokkade of Cuba by the US. The CIA owned Afghanistan until it backfired.

  • Iran had it's leftist democracy replaced by a pro USA Sjah. He was so oppressive and corrupt that the people rather had an Ayatollah. Allende of Chilli was killed, Nigaragua Fucked up. South American rightwing brutal dictatorships supported and trained. And so on and so on. For many countries the USA stands not for freedom but oppression and torture.

  • Max, So in which of your examples did the CIA torture and kill for decades? Regarding Iran: Over a 25 year period, an estimated 3,000 dissidents were executed (3,000 too many) by Savak. Under Ayatollah Khomeini the killings and torture really kicked in with an estimated 30,000 deaths in just the first few years. 450K to 950k killed in the war against Iraq. Free press ended, women lost rights to work, Iran began to support terror. The Shah was far better for Iran & it's people.

  • Theo Van Geo is a new Con no different than George Bush. The fundamental idea that propells this new Nazi type is John Locks idea of just war. However, even without religious flavours political conservatism in the West signalls to the other people of the World that the rapes, the looting of their resources by rich whitemen was all right and just.

  • Theo Van Gogh was against every stupid religion(Christianity included). He was an Anti-artist. In The Netherlands we had a proud tradition of artists shifting the boundaries. But that has nothing to do with Guantanamo.

  • I am telling you that Theo van Gough was lifeless idiot. I think and I believe is death is better than his being alive. I am liberal Islamist. I believe fundamentally that the only thing a Kafir can understand is the blade of the sword.I believe too that the only reasonable way a kafir can be treated is to cut his neck and let him bleed to death. You happy now Kangaroo

  • Awilthegrand, you are not liberal. When you want to force your values on others so much that you want to kill for it, you are a religious idiot. You are not better than Bush or fundamental Christians.

  • Max, I'm beginning to suspect that you simply hate Christians, Americans and Jews, while you give a pass to Islam. You failed to list Islam in your condemnation of those who wish to force values (religion) on others. Can I take it from your omission here that you give Islam a pass on this issue?

  • Konagu, read my statament above yours. That shows my thinking. I suspected all along that you are looking for an excuse for selfrightiousness and chauvinism. Calling my criticism 'hate' is a lazy way of dealing with bad news and giving a pass to fashism. I have have American and Jewish friends and family, who do a better job than you in bieing reasonable.

  • Max, My question (that you suggest reveals self-righteousness and chauvinism) was if you are only willing to give a pass to Islam when it is forced on others while you condemn Christians Americans and Jews. You disregarded the question and went on to attack my motives. This suggests my suspicions are on point. When a position is indefensible, attack the questioner's motives.

  • Right Konagu, that's what you do. I attacked the Islam fundamentalist, right above your statement. I guess it makes you feel easier to paint me off as a Islam lover or US baher than to accept I have genuine criticism on the current fashist regime of the USA. Happy Christmas by the way.

  • Max, Merry Christmas to you as well.

    I find it amusing that you would equate the US government with Mussolini's Italy. This displays a severe misunderstanding of the term "fascist". It also diminishes the severity of the suffering of those under Mussolini's rule, and exposes an ignorance of how the government of the US functions.

  • Konagu, fashism means: a group of industrials circumventing the constitution, putting a strawman foreward and manipulating the underclass with chauvinism and propaganda, pressing the "we are better than them". Thereby excusing violation of human rights and terror. A scapegoat is always presented. Clearly you can see the similarity.

  • Max, Your definition of fascism is flawed. Not even close. The term (accurately defined) certainly cannot be attributed to the US. If you will recall, the US just had a major shift of political power November 2006, and Government will change hands again in Nov. 2008. Fascism is a term that has been so misused, it is frequently spewed to disparage anyone with opposing political views.

  • Konagu, My definition of fashism is good, it works for Germany in 1930 and Italy. This is what happens. In the US people realised that your strawman does not have to be in charge all the time. A change of power keeps the CIA as it is, the judges, the money made by the current Bush companies. Politics have been outmanouvered by powermanipulations.

  • Max, I found an argument regarding fascism that you may find interesting, it is on the socialist workers web site and is written buy a guy named Paul D'Amato, hardly a friend of George Bush. He comes to the same conclusion as I, which is that the term fascist is misused. He is much more articulate than me. Take a look and tell me what you think. socialistworker(dot)org/2003-2­/471/471_

    09_Fascism(dot)shtml

  • Sorry, not interested. We had it all in Europe and we have to learn about it at school, in order not to let it happen again. I know what fashism is.

  • Max Perhaps it was taught in school, you didn't learn it.

  • Konagu, we learned about it. Over and over again. Our grandfathers witnessed it. I spoke to old Germans. There are clearly fashist tendencies in the current USA.

  • You Dutch Jack Asses would all be NAZI Slaves by now if it were not for America so worry about that Swamp you call a country and keep your honker out of ours! You Europeans are some Ungreatful assholes. Do you really think you could've overcome WW2 without us? Fascist my butt! You selfrightous snobs need oil just like we do.

  • Dkatzu2, We were mainly freed by by the Canadians and the Polish. The Russians broke the back of the German Army. So come of your throne, you are not that great. We don't recognise our ally from the past anymore. For selfrightious, look good in the mirror.

  • MAX, uh what? Nothing in your post here makes any sense. Are you comparing current US govt with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy? And you live in Holland? You have lost all credibility if that is your position. 40,000,000 dead and you are making a comparison? That is ludicrous.

  • Konagu, sadly I have a point in my comparison. Although it's not the same, we can clearly see fashist tendencies in the current USA. Bush even uses the same excuse as Hitler to put aside parts of the constitution: national security. The essential is not in the death toll but the ways a group of people do a grasp for power, wether there is a Grupp or GM behind it.

  • Konagu, that you don't want the USA to have fashist tendencies, does not mean that it hasn't. Obviously you don't want to see the USA as bad for the world, but decades of powerpolitics without scrupules did more harm than good for people and they remember. You cannot sell Guantanamo as good and the patriotact as democratic. You are alone and losing.

  • Max, You're in Holland, why would you give a big rats ass about the Patriot Act. It is mostly about stopping terrorist attacks, and it has been working. In every war from the US civil war to WWI and WWII (and I believe there is a war on terror) civil rights were curtailed until the hostilities ended. I live here and have seen no effect on my life and if it allows the FBI to listen in on a phone call from a suspected terrorist to the US, I have no problem with that.

  • I care about developments in the USA because we are supposed to be friends. For most Germans the changing laws in Germany in the 1930ies didn't change much, until it was too late. You have no problem until it hits you and you do not belief that it will, that's how it works. What is a suspected terrorist? A demonstrator, a political opponent? People in Guantanamo have been sold for money. Your founding fathers were not backward when they wrote the constitution.

  • Max, I'm sorry I missed your criticism of Islam, my apology.

  • "Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich." --Peter Ustinov