Hanbok- The Clothes of Nature (1/2)

[KingofKpop]

Fashion from Korea to China and then came back. Koryo-> Yuan- thus Ming took Yuan it has Korean influence. Ming clothes? very few paintings survived from Ming era when Joseon paintings are plenty.

[merumeru00]

Good video

[hyubgaek]

So as far as Joseon Court, yes they wore Chinese clothing, and chinese items were a hot issue among Joseon aristocrats, which we see now American/European fashion might be a hot item in asia. As for the daily average citizens of Joseon, their clothing didn't differ much from Koryo era, and a true hanbok always maintained a non robe, top and bottom pants pattern. The "gat" that the Joseon wore, which evolved from Koryo era's laquer painted "gat", also is so different compared to the Chinese.

[hyubgaek]

The Korean Hanbok definately is uniquely Korean property. The common mistake of a Chinese guy here, is that he relates all hanbok of Joseon to modern era to be influenced by China, which is not even accepted in scholarship. The vassal situation also is a complicated issue, for Joseon didn't fully obeyed China, but had many disputes as if the state was independant, such as territory borders, citizenship, trade. The Joseon palace had to base on Chinese system because of sino-centrism of that era

[hyubgaek]

I never said Koreans in general wore chinese clothing. Read my previous comments carefully. I was mentioning the "COURT/PALACE" of Joseon dynasty. I know Koreans wore hanbok way before Joseon. You can also see in Goguryeo paintings that Koreans always have been wearing a two piece hanbok. I'm sure you know.

[hyubgaek]

"palace hanbok!

don't you dare say that we wore chinese clothing."

The only "hanbok" part of the kings clothing was the white bok he was wearing within. The red clothing on the outside is based on Chinese court systems. Do you go to a University? Ask your professor if the Joseon court wasn't based on Ming clothing. In real life you wouldn't be able to tell me to my face such words as "DON"T YOU DARE". You need to watch your mouth.

[hyubgaek]

Mr. Mae8318, you are not correcting anyone here. Not only is the system, but also the King's "red" clothin, including the son's, the queen, and the concubines were identical to Ming China. Within the Court the Korean only type of clothing would be worn by, King's bodyguards, soldiers/ General/ Those who cook, Those females who perform Medicine, and etc... The Major players from King/ Royal Family/ to the King's advisors wore and followed Ming China.

[mae8318]

"So as far as Joseon Court, yes they wore Chinese clothing"this was wrong , you know my point?At the begining of Chosun dinasty, The King' s clothing was followed Ming court.That's true BUT in a way of chosun I mean the level and colour they use was differ from Ming

[hyubgaek]

"chosun I mean the level and colour they use was differ from Ming"

The reason why the color was different for Ming is to differentiate High and Low. Ming court like many Chinese dynasty wore the Golden outfit to portray Emperor, like Goryeo dynasty era Emperors. The Joseon King wore Red because he was a lower King to the Ming Emperor. The red was not a choice of the Koreans. They were told to wear red. For example how the King or his son (Joseon) wore black during the Qing dynasty.

[mae8318]

what I'm trying to say is 조선이 명나라의 관복 제도를 따랐다 하더라도 조선이 중국의 의복을 입었다는건 확연히 다른 말입니다. hyubgaek님의 말에는 오해의 소지가 다분하다는 말입니다.

[hyubgaek]

I'm sorry I am not Korean, so I can't read your writing. I tried the language translator, and I still can't understand what you said. Please write in English. Thank You

[dilliondemand]

How can I give Korean loves and supports when they're not accepting my love comments?

[entheosentheos]

also. HANBOK is the part of Korean unique culture and many people even dont know about Hanfu and not even heard from.;I heard from you for first time. I saw so many erroneous articles in China about Korea (even the things sound very foolish but people believe that). I say that in Korean schools they teaach we are influenced by China, definately, but it is just not a good manner to say "Oh! it's originated from China" for everythings....

[tanhql]

If Hanbok is so unique and original, why did the production team for "King Sejong the Great" had to copy China Hanfu for their costumes?

[entheosentheos]

Clothes always get influenced by something. Is there anything absolutely ORIGINAL in the world? What irritated my was that you say Hanbok was ORIGINATED from China and it is not true because it has been Korean culture for all time. You can also find its picture on the Goguryeo tomb mural in 1st Century BCE, and I hope you know Chinese govt has been claiming that Goguryeo is the Chinese history which is bullshit. p.s. I'm the PART of royal clothes was influenced by that not other unique designs

[tanhql]

If China only influenced Joseon Hanbok, Then the production team for "King Sejong the Great" should be researching WITHIN Korea, and not China.

Also, when Joseon became a vassal state of Ming Dynasty, Ming had bestowed their Hanfu upon Joseon royal court a few times, known as '赐服'. That is why Hanbok of early Joseon (before Ming Dynasty fell) is exactly the same as Ming.

[entheosentheos]

Well how can that be the reason? Korea does not have enough document or records because those Japanese BURNED all, and Joseon was pretty much influenced by China and that is maybe the reason why the production team wanted to study some things in China for more info; also I never said Joseon was not influenced, but it doesnt mean that Hanbok was ORIGINATED from China as you say. I want to ask you what's that you want to gain from this argument. How can you simply say about one's culture?

[tanhql]

Japanese can burn records, but they can't burn artifacts. If China can recover artifacts from Ming Dynasty, I can't see why Korea can't recover artifacts from Joseon Dynasty.

Also, all along I've only been saying about Joseon Hanbok. I'm not commenting anything about the Hanbok before Joseon Dynasty.

[tanhql]

Also, there are many historical records in China that proves that when Joseon became a vassal state of Ming Dynasty, Ming had bestowed their Hanfu upon Joseon royal court a few times, known as '赐服', and exactly what types of Hanfu were bestowed.

[entheosentheos]

*p.s. I'm sure the PART of royal clothes was influenced by China not other unique designs like girls clothes that are on the video

[entheosentheos]

*What irritated my->me

[armyboy24]

tanhql, dun bother debating with these freaking koreans. They will never accept the fact that a large part of their culture were heavily influenced by the Chinese culture, even their traditional costume. For goodness sake, even their official court costume, headgear and formalities were based on Ming dynasty Chinese Imperial standards, so just let them be ignorant for their own satisfaction. No point arguing with koreans anyway =)

[tanhql]

i6.photobucket.c o m/albums/y244/iamsentai/200801­24_c28c20bc6ddba9c5ec35QjuoGT.­jpg

The above picture is a screenshot of a Chinese forum discussing Hanfu. The pictures in the screenshot are photos of artifacts of China Ming Dynasty.

i6.photobucket.c o m/albums/y244/iamsentai/dkfhdg­rg.jpg

This is the screenshot of the what the production team of "King Sejong the Great" said they had spent months to research. If you look closely enough, even the watermarks (from the forum pics) are still there.

[tanhql]

i6.photobucket.c o m/albums/y244/iamsentai/200801­23_8a39fe18cc3856ae9368zEn9ww.­jpg

The above picture was drawn by a Chinese depicting a Ming Dynasty royalty.

i6.photobucket.c o m/albums/y244/iamsentai/200801­31_55b134cd56570f05b5faGRv4gf.­jpg

This picture was what the production team of "King Sejong the Great" said they had drew themselves depicting a Joseon royalty.

If Hanbok didn't originate from China, I don't see why the production team had to copy their costume designs from China.

[tanhql]

Joseon hanbok definitely originated from Ming Dynasty hanfu.

Ming Dynasty hanfu: friendster.c o m/viewphotos.php?a=406039114&u­id=10663190

As you can see, the female hanbok simply raised the waistline of the hanfu skirt to the breast, and having a smaller crossed collar.

Even the official's hanbok (guanbok) originated from Ming Dynasty, but it's not surprising that hanbok originated from Ming Dynasty, since Joseon was a vassal state of Ming Dynasty.

[tanhql]

You need to remove the spaces in the URL for it to work

[tanhql]

Here's a better link (same pictures as the link above, but bigger)

photobucket.c o m/hanfu

[jookyoungjo]

I guess you don't know nothing about history. Joseon is not the only dynasty of Korea. Before Joseon, there was Koryu, before Koryu, there was the united Silla, before silla there was three nations, and so on. All those dynasty preserve paintings on papers or on the walls, and the basic idea of the Korean costume has not been changed significantly. Joseon is only the recent county and you cannot say the Korean costume is from that much recent.

[tanhql]

I'm just saying that the Hanbok worn nowadays originated from Ming Dynasty Hanfu. I did not say anything about pre-Joseon Hanbok.

[tanhql]

youtube.c o m /watch?v=VEt9LNKt8lA

Video on Ming Dynasty Hanfu. Look how similar Hanbok looks to it. Some Hanbok (especially the headgear/round-collar robes) looks exactly the same.

[entheosentheos]

gosh.. Not everything in the world is from China! because Hanbok looks similiar to hanfu to YOU, it doesnt mean that the Hanbok is ORIGINATED from hanfu. The basic(and inner) parts and constructures are completely diffrent. Besides, Hanbok always has been developed in another way and so on from 3rd Century Goguryeo Dynasty. It may look SIMILAR to you, but it is NOT. With your logic, kimono or all others can be also from China. I hope you study some more about Hanbok.Then you will see what I mean

[tanhql]

In the korean historical television series, "King Sejong the Great", they took a lot of 'references' for their royal clothing from China Ming Dynasty. In the website below (which is in Chinese), the paintings and artifacts are from Ming China, and the screenshots/photos with actors/models are from the show.

url: cache .tianya .c n /publicforum /content/funinfo /1/1255723.s h t m l

BTW, this news was also reported (or rather, leaked out) in Korea newspaper.

[entheosentheos]

ugggggggggggggggggggggggg

okay

why do I bother myself.

and why do you bother yourself to say Hanbok's from China?

influenced and what??? do you know anything that would not be influenced in its thousands of years of history?

so is the Hanbok Chinese clothing????

Why do you bother yourself researching Korean news papers and television series for that reason?

Why do you chinese always so eager to say everything's from China..

[tanhql]

Because Korea's doing that. Korea has been eager to apply to the UNESCO that Hanja (Chinese Hanzi), Hanfu (yes, China Hanfu), Dragon Boat Festival (Chinese festival) and many other China (and Japan) culture as their own. There are even some Chinese and Japanese jokers who said that soon, Korea is going to apply that the whole universe is korean's invention.

[tanhql]

I have nothing against Korea culture, and Hanbok. I like and own both Japanese Kimono and Korea Hanbok. But one thing that Japanese do (and Korea absolutely refuses to do) is that they "admit" a lot of their culture and tradition originated from China Tang Dynasty (including Kimono), and when Korea doesn't, it just irks people.

[entheosentheos]

DO YOU KNOW A LOT OF CHINESE ARTICLES ARE NOT TRUE??????? you ask to any random Korean where the Hanja is from and whose. They will ALL say its from CHINA. and with that logic, a lot of Japanese cultures are also influenced by Korea but they never admit that.

[cancehhu]

Excuse me,but these clothes look so much like traditional Chinese clothes that I can't help saying something here.Espescially those clothes in Ming Dynasty.Please check this.

[HeavensAria]

It's definitely korean. But i wouldn't be surprised. China has a very rich history and has always veen extremely influencial on many levels, especially to her neighboring countries. I do believe traditional korean clothing was influenced by Chinese fashion too, this is probably why their gowns seem Chinese to you.

[kkuakk]

It's your belief. Learn more and tell the facts. Chinese clothing was based on robes. There was no definite of pants and jacket.

Korean clothing is related to mongolian.

[kkuakk]

Also, korean hanbok style was formed in Koguryo in BC 2C, long long before Chinese Ming Dynasty.

[consoleman09]

@HeavensAria Joseon Hanbok trace back to Silla-Koryo eras, if Ming huafu influenced Korean hanbok then what's with Koryo hanbok then, did it came from Ming too when Koryo existed before Ming. What our chinese friend was referring to Ming's court attires, they look similar to Joseon hanbok from one of their painting but no survived Mingfu that bears same design as hanbok. This questionable Ming painting was middle of dispute Coz it's only Ming painting depicting same Korean hanbok.

[consoleman09]

@HeavensAria However, from Ming's emperor's tombs, Chinese scholars discovered emperor's attire and his empress attire, they're looking different from Korean hanbok. So that Ming painting is questionable. It's believed that painting was actually influenced by Korean design. There is even Korean painting depicting Koreans in Chinese cloths. More interestingly, Ming emperors were not pure Chinese, but mixed with Hui and Koreans. Their faces resembled NE Asian not that of Han Chinese face.

[dsk]

cancehhu:

Yeah, yeah, everybody was running around naked before chinese (the holy people no less!) came down from heaven and bestowed their "gifts" on mankind, right?

Just because there may be superficial similarities doesn't mean it's chinese .. I wish you people would stop taking small meaningless similarities and carrying on with an ultimately racist agenda.

I apologise if that's not your thrust, but there's so many chinese doing that that "I can't help saying something here"

[juniperann]

What a great video! It's a tiny bit over-enthusiastic at times (what do you expect from a ministry of tourism?), but really lovely.

Also, the last 20 seconds were very, very helpful to me, as I'm making a chogori-inspired jacket. Thanks for posting.

[ryanlsj]

this video looks kinda old

[g0ngjumama]

very informative and visually stunning to look at. Thank you for sharing this wonderful video :)