I always hated the shuttle bay scenes from these movies. It just totally screws up the scale of the rest of the ship. At 1:19 it's obvious the entire drive section of the ship could only be two decks tall given the scale of the shuttle craft that are inside the bay. Then the saucer section is about 3/8ths the height of the drive section so it could only be one deck.
A: tracking shots with physical models wasn't quite possible even in 1990- if the camera moved during filming of any one element, you were screwed and had to redo all of it!
B: Lens flares were an absolute no-no, especially in layered-element model shots! If they were shot outside the studio walls, then that's fine, but not in the closed SFX environment of a studio!
Only common-use CGI has allowed these two to become common in SFX films thesedays.
Just as a bit of constructive criticism, the switch to the full-CGI is a bit obvious. I think it would help if you were to work a bit more on the texturing and the shading. Given that this video was posted almost 2 years ago, though, I'm figuring you've already made some changes.
What a Filom to get a Heavy Make Over with CGI. They could Gut the Whole Film. Maybe do a Few Re Shoots. Add in the Rock Creature Scenes using CGI I heard about that were Never Finished. Re-Score the whole Film ( Bad Re-Use of the TMP / TNG Theme) eliminate a lot of slow scenes. Cut out the Re-Use of scenes from Star Trek IV of Spacedock & the Enterprise in Spacedock. ( what a Let Down and Downer: ) add in new CGI of the Klingon Ships, the Enterprise & shuttles. HIt film on DVD & Re Release
Too bad you can't increase the scale of the shuttle bay due to the live shot. It was way too small, (especially for a ship with 75 decks LOL). If you're looking for suggestions, there needs to be a scene added of the Enterprise warping out after Kirk talks to Admiral Harve. You could even lift the music from First Contact when the Enterprise warps toward Earth.
@jtkirkfan2002 When I would watch the show, I always wonder why the ship held only 400 crew. We have air craft carriers that hold 5000 crew and this is 250 plus year in the future. I liked how JJ fixed the scale, when the shuttles are docking in the new movie, you can see how big the ship is and see the cadets in formation at the bottom of the shot .
I think Berman aside we should all be happy we dont have George Lucas producing Star Trek lol then we would really all be screwed, we would of had not one, but three prequels and no where near as good as JJ's version, which I thought was pretty good and about as close the feel of Star Trek that we have not had since TWOK. Berman is in the past, now lets look to the future and see whats out there
I like how you've extended the scene. Any chance to see more of the Enterprise, especially the TMP era Enterprise, is a treat. I hope you're looking at adding the missing warp sequence when they leave Earth.
God can't stop watching this...it's everything this scene should have been and makes me want to see it like this start to finish; if you ever decided to do the whole film I know for one I'd donate to make that happen.
New CG effects would definately help, but I would also be interested in seeing Shatner's Director's Cut with his different ending. But, that ain't gonna happen!
@TREK5SE From everythingt I've read online Paramount does not want to invest the money into a Director's Cut for STV. No one would like to see a Director's Cut more than I would. It would be the final tribute to the original Star Trek cast, especially Shatner, since there will be no more new material coming from them. It would bring the quality of the movie closer, or equal to the rest.
CGI might make it easier. But unlike TMP, paramount wouldn't puit the money into ST V without a really good reason. TMP had infamous production issues, ST V not as much.
The real downer beside the special effects and butchered script was that Shatner couldn't get a hold of Sean Connery to play the part of Sybok. The same goes for Nicholas Meyer who wanted the role of Gorkon to be played by Jack Palance. They would have made great characters.
@Bla31n It would have been better to get "Sha Ka Ree"--ahem--Sean Connery to play Sybok, but at the time he already had "The Hunt for Red October" and "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", both Paramount features. Chances are, even if he were uncommitted at the time, Connery would have laughed at the weak script.
ST:V was a disaster through and through, and I'm glad the series finished with ST:VI, a much better movie.
@basherman69 Funny you say that, but I beg to ask why Connery appeared in HIGHLANDER II? Don't forget that Shatner had his story butchered by Paramount and the Writer's Guild Strike of '88. It was a dark story that needed some refinement; and personally, ST VI could've been better.
@Bla31n Okay, Highlander II was a pitiful sequel, and you make a valid point about Connery's decision to be in it. Maybe it was his Scottish pride that ultimately made the decision.
Okay, maybe the 1988 writers strike affected the outcome of the script to the "Final Frontier", but that same strike had little affect on the second season of "The Next Generation". Continued....
@Bla31n Paramount didn't fully invest itself into ST:V because, at the time, it had expected it to be the last movie in the series, as TNG was gaining popularity, and the TOS actors were getting older. ST:V could have been better, perhaps, if the movie was developed after the strike, but the general consensus is it was the worst movie of the franchise, and I don't recall Shatner getting another directorial assignment ever again.
ST:VI was better than ST:V. What was wrong with TUC, anyway?
@basherman69 ST:VI is not a bad film, it just feels a little small. Galactic politics don't carry enough weight to makes a really good movie, and there's not enough fun and adventure in the rest of the story.
@Bla31n That's the problem with the ST feature films. The producers seem to think the bigger the scope, the better the story. I can understand your POV RE:ST:VI. ST:VI is difficult for me to watch because it is the end of an era, not because the story was lacking.
But then again, there is Star Trek Nemesis, a movie I refuse to watch because not only it ended the TNG franchise, but the story was relatively empty. It was a poor way to end TNG.
@basherman69 I feel the problem is that the way they made STAR TREK on the big screen was too formulaic. TNG was another waste of time. Not to knock on the show itself, but if Rick Berman hadn't be involved there would've been so much more, and I hold him and his lap dogs responsible for TNG's theatrical rundown.
@basherman69 I especially disliked both GENERATIONS and FIRST CONTACT for the simple reason that they were done by the three stooges. INSURRECTION was just plain sad, as was NEMESIS. Might I ask what your thoughts were on STAR TREK '09?
@Bla31n I actually liked STG and STFC. I didn't like STI, though, seeing as a lot of the plot involved around another corrupt Starfleet official (Daugherty) that Picard has to "correct".
RE: Star Trek XI (2009). I recall circa 1990 that Paramount had wanted to do an "origin" movie featuring the TOS characters at Starfleet Academy, but the Trekkers threw fits over it. Thus ST:VI was made. Was Star Trek XI that long unshelved pet project ?
@Bla31n I don't know for sure if it was, but what wouldn't work in 1990 succeeded in 2009. I liked ST:XI, though I didn't approve of the film's resolution of not "correcting" the altered timeline as had been done previously in many a ST segment throughout the years. I understand why it wasn't corrected, though.
What was up with the shaved, tattooed Romulans? Who came up with that idea to change their look? What's next? Body piercings? Maybe on a "new" alien race, but not on the Romulans.
@basherman69 Funny you mention Romulans. I suppose those same Trekkies who make a big deal out of that forgot to ask questions why TNG Romulans appeared differently from TOS Romulans. I never liked the ridged Romulans myself for aesthetic reasons. They looked sloppy and tacked on.
@Bla31n Furthermore, if Romulans are Vulcans that rebelled against the non-emotional teachings of Surak and left their home planet, why would they have the ridged foreheads to begin with? Vulcans are Romulans are the same race. If the explanation was based on evolution, that doesn't make sense either, as evolutionary changes in species take place over millions of years.
Maybe Michael Westmore's staff just needed the work.
@basherman69 Less is more. The Romulans were better off without ridges and not to mention the fact they look all the same. In fact they used to wear helmets, so what happened there. On the other hand, the Klingons I didn't like much on TNG simply because of their deformed caveman appearance.
@basherman69 Now if you really want to keep Westmore and his team busy, they should have done the Ferengi right. Andy Probert had a sketch of what they would have looked like with fangs and sharp ears. They were supposed to replace Romulans and Klingons as the villains, but failed. I blame the producers for that.
@Bla31n@Bla31n I liked the idea in TOS that Romulans and Vulcans were indistinguishable. Helmets? On the original series, both Romulans and Vulcans wore the same helmets, the off-screen reason was to save money of the make-up budget. Why the helmets didn't appear in the 24th Century, I don't know.
By the way, since this is supposed to be about ST:V, what was up with the Romulan Caithlin Dar? Why were her ears completely covered? Why no upswept eyebrows? To save money? On a feature? How cheap!
@bla31n Memory Alpha makes references to Dar being 1/4 human, but this is pushing it.
Ah, the Ferengi. They were supposed to be the new monsters created to "devour" the Federation. Remember Picard's comment to Groppler Zorn about hoping the Ferengi would find him "tasty"? Instead we got short, comic buffoons that were sensitive to light and sound, and were easily intimidated. I don't think the look was the problem. It was the characterization of that race in early episodes that ruined them..
@basherman69 I was having a discussion with someone on another topic regarding TOS Klingons and why they appear different from their TMP/TNG counterparts. It was theorized at one time that TOS Klingons were in fact humans raised as Klingons, similar to Janissaries; that for cosmetic or diplomatic reasons, Klingons removed the ridges via surgery; or that TOS Klingons were in fact hybrids with a more human species.
@Bla31n ST:Enterprise settled that question in their fourth season. It was genetically enhanced human DNA that produced the ridgeless Klingons in TOS. Of course Arne Darvin of "The Trouble With Tribbles" was surgically altered. Maybe he was originally a "rare" ridged Klingon.
@basherman69 In the unrealized PHASE II two-parter KITUMBA, it was mentioned that "Klingon" was not the name of the species. Only those who belong to the Military caste were called Klingon. In my opinion, TOS Klingons, TMP Klingons (the heavy, cragged head ridged fellas w/ snaggled prominent teeth), TOS movie Klingons, and TNG Klingons are member races.
@Bla31n Not so unrealized. The James Cawley-produced ST:Phase II is making its version of Kitumba, an alternate version of the Klingon political system. I found most of the webisodes enjoyable, but only one episode is released per year. It may be two to three years before the full two-parter is fully realized and released to the public.
@basherman69 It must be understood that I adhere to the original canon as envisioned by TOS writers, and not the "STAR TREK" universe accepted by Rick Berman and company.
@basherman69 This is just my opinion, but whatever it is, Rick Berman did not, in at that time, and as far as I can see from what was produced, did not understand science fiction. The only thing of note is that before Rick Berman did before STAR TREK was the THE BIG BLUE MARBLE, a kid's show.
@basherman69 STAR TREK died when Gene Roddenberry died. And everyone who cared about STAR TREK left TNG out of frustration once Paramount decided to put Berman in charge. He did not understand what he was doing. And I'm not the only one who thinks this way, but other fans and casual viewers alike felt alienated by his conduct. I'll say one thing good about him: he managed to keep the show going, but it eventually ran of of steam. I don't hate the man, it's just that I'm not taken by him.
@Bla31n ST:TNG, and its 24th Century spin-offs were successful with the Trekkers, so Berman, Piller, and Taylor must have been doing something right. One beef Roddenberry had with how Star Trek was developed was "too much militarism". His view of what became Starfleet was it was a futuristic version of NASA, and its members were explorers, not soldiers. This is why there was no rank insignia in the first two pilots. Roddenberry also didn't care for old naval traditions that seeped into ST:II.
@bla31n Subsequent films also introduced more militarism, but as each movie (and TNG) was released, Roddenberry's influence over his creation diminished with his health.
I didn't have any issues with the military themes that were "forced" into Star Trek, and I like the 24th Century series. I did have some issues with Enterprise, as there were many episodes that contradicted later events in the ST universe. First contact with the Ferengi, for instance.
@basherman69 Well, as I've said it's a matter of opinion. I agree them modern shows did well to run several seasons, but during his tenor as producer Berman did make a lot of unhappy fans stop watching. I'll say at the time I didn't mind him but my opinions slowly started to make 180. Piller was good too, but as you indicated about INSURRECTION, he wrote it. Taylor was no D.C. Fontana.
@Bla31n I'm still trying to get the gist of why you disapprove Rick Berman. You don't seem to agree with the militarism concept that caused GR to grow disillusioned with the evolution of his creation. I'm sure some fans stopped watching the spin-offs, but I think it was because they were getting tired of being 'bombarded" by DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, series that dropped in quality as original story ideas were running low. I started losing interest for the same reason in the late 1990s.
@basherman69 I won't fool you into thinking that I revere Roddenberry over Berman because of my dissatisfaction with the latter. I did at a time like DS9 and VGR but as you said the quality of those programs started slipping. In fact VGR I had hoped to watch an excellent show about a crew stranded on the far side of the galaxy and many possible stories dealing with their survival. I didn't see that. How does a ship come out unscathed after being lost for several seasons before coming home?
@Bla31n Ah, Voyager. My friends used to joke about failed plotlines involving quick ways of getting home as the dreaded "Gilligan's Island Syndrome". Voyager certainly looked very pristine by the time "Endgame" signed off. It was about the time Voyager attained "middle age" that I stopped watching regularly.
By the way, was there anything practical about Seven of Nine's attire? I'm sure she got a lot of catcalls from male viewers (I was one of them) over her catsuit, but did it make sense?
@bla31n Furthermore, I wonder if some of those outfits Troi wore on the early seasons of TNG were Starfleet issue. It sure looked attractive to look at, but is it the kind of attire you would want your psychiatrist to be wearing if you had some serious emotional issues to work out? Then again, Troi would be a quick fix for erectile dysfunction. :)
@Bla31n Yes, and no. Jon Povill, writer of the movie "Total Recall", the movie that actually had a three-breasted woman, worked for GR in the late 70s during the time of the aborted Phase II project. That idea may have been tossed around at that time, but whether the idea originated with Gene or Povill, I don't know.
Povill also co-wrote "The Child", a Phase II script that was recycled for TNG. That episode is currently in post-production for James Cawley's Phase II web series.
@basherman69 Roddenberry was an anomaly. He may come up with the idea of STAR TREK, but others did most of the dirty work for him. I give credit to Gene L. Coon and D.C. Fontana for shaping TREK as we know it. When Harold Livingston produced TMP he had locked horns with Roddenberry when he constantly rewrote the script. And lets forget him and Harlan Ellison.
@Bla31n I agree that Coon and Fontana were the biggest contributors to TOS, perhaps more instrumental in the shaping of the series than GR himself. ST:TMP was the lone movie Roddenberry had any direct influence over, but fans are mixed over the final screen result. This is why Harve Bennett took over the movie series from TWOK onwards.
Harlan Ellison? I'm familiar with behind-the-scenes battles the writer had with Roddenberry and William Shatner, whom he called "The Great Actor."
One thing always bugged me - if Kirk and party were on earth why did'nt they beam back up to spacedock? and who piloted the Enterprise out of spacedock? I know Jim did'nt have his communicator but I would expect the ever logical Spock to have his!
@TRUMPER007 They had problems throughout the movie with the transporters, and who said it was in spacedock, think there are more ships outside spacedock than in spacedock. my $0,02
Damn dude this is great. My favorite shot is at 0:15. It was so graceful and looked better than the special effects in the new Star Trek movie. I also like it because it was a reverse of the same view at the end of Star Trek 4. Did you have that in mind?
What's always bothered me about Classic Trek is that the shuttle bays are HUGE. I mean, the Enterprise is supposed to hold about 400-some people, and those shuttles clearly don't hold more then five to eight.
So...I guess the shuttles and people suddenly change size in the shuttle bay? Is anybody else bothered by that, or is it just me?
Oh, and great cgi work, been watching the vids, and they're cool.
As for the ever changing shuttle size... the problem is when AMT built the full size exterior model, it was not quite the right size and did not match the sets.
If you watch an episode like Galileo 7, you will notice that when the camera is outside and they are stepping in, they cannot stand up. But the interior shots (most of which were not filmed in the big model, but an interior set) allows them to stand.
Oh wow that is all i can say to your creation, this would make me watch ST5 again, for me it was the special effects that let it down, ill gloss over the story and Shatners ego but the music is amazing, cant wait to see more 5/5
Was this ever finished? I'd love to see it!
amaxamon 4 hours ago
I always hated the shuttle bay scenes from these movies. It just totally screws up the scale of the rest of the ship. At 1:19 it's obvious the entire drive section of the ship could only be two decks tall given the scale of the shuttle craft that are inside the bay. Then the saucer section is about 3/8ths the height of the drive section so it could only be one deck.
DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3 2 months ago
This is brilliant - a few more scenes like this would render Star Trek V a much more watchable movie!
TRUMPER007 2 months ago
Very nice!
Two picks-
A: tracking shots with physical models wasn't quite possible even in 1990- if the camera moved during filming of any one element, you were screwed and had to redo all of it!
B: Lens flares were an absolute no-no, especially in layered-element model shots! If they were shot outside the studio walls, then that's fine, but not in the closed SFX environment of a studio!
Only common-use CGI has allowed these two to become common in SFX films thesedays.
EVAUnit4A 3 months ago
@EVAUnit4A You couldn't move the camera around a physical model in 1990? Umm didnt Star Wars do in the 70's??
DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3 2 months ago
I like how the shuttle scrapes the wall as it docks.
Ozolz 4 months ago
Just as a bit of constructive criticism, the switch to the full-CGI is a bit obvious. I think it would help if you were to work a bit more on the texturing and the shading. Given that this video was posted almost 2 years ago, though, I'm figuring you've already made some changes.
Kelvari7882 5 months ago
I just really don't like this movie.
billyboyjennings 6 months ago
What a Filom to get a Heavy Make Over with CGI. They could Gut the Whole Film. Maybe do a Few Re Shoots. Add in the Rock Creature Scenes using CGI I heard about that were Never Finished. Re-Score the whole Film ( Bad Re-Use of the TMP / TNG Theme) eliminate a lot of slow scenes. Cut out the Re-Use of scenes from Star Trek IV of Spacedock & the Enterprise in Spacedock. ( what a Let Down and Downer: ) add in new CGI of the Klingon Ships, the Enterprise & shuttles. HIt film on DVD & Re Release
Roadracer987654321 9 months ago
Too bad you can't increase the scale of the shuttle bay due to the live shot. It was way too small, (especially for a ship with 75 decks LOL). If you're looking for suggestions, there needs to be a scene added of the Enterprise warping out after Kirk talks to Admiral Harve. You could even lift the music from First Contact when the Enterprise warps toward Earth.
jtkirkfan2002 10 months ago
@jtkirkfan2002 When I would watch the show, I always wonder why the ship held only 400 crew. We have air craft carriers that hold 5000 crew and this is 250 plus year in the future. I liked how JJ fixed the scale, when the shuttles are docking in the new movie, you can see how big the ship is and see the cadets in formation at the bottom of the shot .
tdrewman 5 months ago
Someone needs to send this to Shatner. I'm SURE he'd be impressed!
REM1701 10 months ago 2
That is a logical question Spock, how come you don't know row row row your boat?
smcneal057 1 year ago
This is awesome! They need to replace the movies scenes with these
724Christian 1 year ago
This is awesome! I have get to find you people to help make a home movie!
724Christian 1 year ago
I think Berman aside we should all be happy we dont have George Lucas producing Star Trek lol then we would really all be screwed, we would of had not one, but three prequels and no where near as good as JJ's version, which I thought was pretty good and about as close the feel of Star Trek that we have not had since TWOK. Berman is in the past, now lets look to the future and see whats out there
Wharding85 1 year ago
Someone needs to do JJ Abrams film over with a Constitution class angel like from the TOS!
Megatron65 1 year ago 8
I like how you've extended the scene. Any chance to see more of the Enterprise, especially the TMP era Enterprise, is a treat. I hope you're looking at adding the missing warp sequence when they leave Earth.
jtkirkfan2002 1 year ago
amazin love it all in all awesome job we get the see the Enterprise-A in all her glory.
mart270 1 year ago
These should have been used... the film desperately needs them
LegoFreakPictures 1 year ago
God can't stop watching this...it's everything this scene should have been and makes me want to see it like this start to finish; if you ever decided to do the whole film I know for one I'd donate to make that happen.
Tagiomaki1701 1 year ago
Love it. I've been checking out all of your effects. Awesome stuff.
The Goldsmith cue with the Enterprise at 0:15 is great. That ship with that music....That IS Star Trek.
amusedmaj 1 year ago
New CG effects would definately help, but I would also be interested in seeing Shatner's Director's Cut with his different ending. But, that ain't gonna happen!
Starriderrob 1 year ago 4
@Starriderrob ....and why not?
TREK5SE 1 year ago
@TREK5SE From everythingt I've read online Paramount does not want to invest the money into a Director's Cut for STV. No one would like to see a Director's Cut more than I would. It would be the final tribute to the original Star Trek cast, especially Shatner, since there will be no more new material coming from them. It would bring the quality of the movie closer, or equal to the rest.
Starriderrob 1 year ago
@TREK5SE
$250,000 for a single rock monster suit x10
CGI might make it easier. But unlike TMP, paramount wouldn't puit the money into ST V without a really good reason. TMP had infamous production issues, ST V not as much.
EVAUnit4A 2 months ago
The real downer beside the special effects and butchered script was that Shatner couldn't get a hold of Sean Connery to play the part of Sybok. The same goes for Nicholas Meyer who wanted the role of Gorkon to be played by Jack Palance. They would have made great characters.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n It would have been better to get "Sha Ka Ree"--ahem--Sean Connery to play Sybok, but at the time he already had "The Hunt for Red October" and "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade", both Paramount features. Chances are, even if he were uncommitted at the time, Connery would have laughed at the weak script.
ST:V was a disaster through and through, and I'm glad the series finished with ST:VI, a much better movie.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Funny you say that, but I beg to ask why Connery appeared in HIGHLANDER II? Don't forget that Shatner had his story butchered by Paramount and the Writer's Guild Strike of '88. It was a dark story that needed some refinement; and personally, ST VI could've been better.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n Okay, Highlander II was a pitiful sequel, and you make a valid point about Connery's decision to be in it. Maybe it was his Scottish pride that ultimately made the decision.
Okay, maybe the 1988 writers strike affected the outcome of the script to the "Final Frontier", but that same strike had little affect on the second season of "The Next Generation". Continued....
basherman69 1 year ago
@Bla31n Paramount didn't fully invest itself into ST:V because, at the time, it had expected it to be the last movie in the series, as TNG was gaining popularity, and the TOS actors were getting older. ST:V could have been better, perhaps, if the movie was developed after the strike, but the general consensus is it was the worst movie of the franchise, and I don't recall Shatner getting another directorial assignment ever again.
ST:VI was better than ST:V. What was wrong with TUC, anyway?
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 ST:VI is not a bad film, it just feels a little small. Galactic politics don't carry enough weight to makes a really good movie, and there's not enough fun and adventure in the rest of the story.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n That's the problem with the ST feature films. The producers seem to think the bigger the scope, the better the story. I can understand your POV RE:ST:VI. ST:VI is difficult for me to watch because it is the end of an era, not because the story was lacking.
But then again, there is Star Trek Nemesis, a movie I refuse to watch because not only it ended the TNG franchise, but the story was relatively empty. It was a poor way to end TNG.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 I feel the problem is that the way they made STAR TREK on the big screen was too formulaic. TNG was another waste of time. Not to knock on the show itself, but if Rick Berman hadn't be involved there would've been so much more, and I hold him and his lap dogs responsible for TNG's theatrical rundown.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@basherman69 I especially disliked both GENERATIONS and FIRST CONTACT for the simple reason that they were done by the three stooges. INSURRECTION was just plain sad, as was NEMESIS. Might I ask what your thoughts were on STAR TREK '09?
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n I actually liked STG and STFC. I didn't like STI, though, seeing as a lot of the plot involved around another corrupt Starfleet official (Daugherty) that Picard has to "correct".
RE: Star Trek XI (2009). I recall circa 1990 that Paramount had wanted to do an "origin" movie featuring the TOS characters at Starfleet Academy, but the Trekkers threw fits over it. Thus ST:VI was made. Was Star Trek XI that long unshelved pet project ?
basherman69 1 year ago
@Bla31n I don't know for sure if it was, but what wouldn't work in 1990 succeeded in 2009. I liked ST:XI, though I didn't approve of the film's resolution of not "correcting" the altered timeline as had been done previously in many a ST segment throughout the years. I understand why it wasn't corrected, though.
What was up with the shaved, tattooed Romulans? Who came up with that idea to change their look? What's next? Body piercings? Maybe on a "new" alien race, but not on the Romulans.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Funny you mention Romulans. I suppose those same Trekkies who make a big deal out of that forgot to ask questions why TNG Romulans appeared differently from TOS Romulans. I never liked the ridged Romulans myself for aesthetic reasons. They looked sloppy and tacked on.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n Furthermore, if Romulans are Vulcans that rebelled against the non-emotional teachings of Surak and left their home planet, why would they have the ridged foreheads to begin with? Vulcans are Romulans are the same race. If the explanation was based on evolution, that doesn't make sense either, as evolutionary changes in species take place over millions of years.
Maybe Michael Westmore's staff just needed the work.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Less is more. The Romulans were better off without ridges and not to mention the fact they look all the same. In fact they used to wear helmets, so what happened there. On the other hand, the Klingons I didn't like much on TNG simply because of their deformed caveman appearance.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@basherman69 Now if you really want to keep Westmore and his team busy, they should have done the Ferengi right. Andy Probert had a sketch of what they would have looked like with fangs and sharp ears. They were supposed to replace Romulans and Klingons as the villains, but failed. I blame the producers for that.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n @Bla31n I liked the idea in TOS that Romulans and Vulcans were indistinguishable. Helmets? On the original series, both Romulans and Vulcans wore the same helmets, the off-screen reason was to save money of the make-up budget. Why the helmets didn't appear in the 24th Century, I don't know.
By the way, since this is supposed to be about ST:V, what was up with the Romulan Caithlin Dar? Why were her ears completely covered? Why no upswept eyebrows? To save money? On a feature? How cheap!
basherman69 1 year ago
@bla31n Memory Alpha makes references to Dar being 1/4 human, but this is pushing it.
Ah, the Ferengi. They were supposed to be the new monsters created to "devour" the Federation. Remember Picard's comment to Groppler Zorn about hoping the Ferengi would find him "tasty"? Instead we got short, comic buffoons that were sensitive to light and sound, and were easily intimidated. I don't think the look was the problem. It was the characterization of that race in early episodes that ruined them..
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 I was having a discussion with someone on another topic regarding TOS Klingons and why they appear different from their TMP/TNG counterparts. It was theorized at one time that TOS Klingons were in fact humans raised as Klingons, similar to Janissaries; that for cosmetic or diplomatic reasons, Klingons removed the ridges via surgery; or that TOS Klingons were in fact hybrids with a more human species.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n ST:Enterprise settled that question in their fourth season. It was genetically enhanced human DNA that produced the ridgeless Klingons in TOS. Of course Arne Darvin of "The Trouble With Tribbles" was surgically altered. Maybe he was originally a "rare" ridged Klingon.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 In the unrealized PHASE II two-parter KITUMBA, it was mentioned that "Klingon" was not the name of the species. Only those who belong to the Military caste were called Klingon. In my opinion, TOS Klingons, TMP Klingons (the heavy, cragged head ridged fellas w/ snaggled prominent teeth), TOS movie Klingons, and TNG Klingons are member races.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n Not so unrealized. The James Cawley-produced ST:Phase II is making its version of Kitumba, an alternate version of the Klingon political system. I found most of the webisodes enjoyable, but only one episode is released per year. It may be two to three years before the full two-parter is fully realized and released to the public.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 It must be understood that I adhere to the original canon as envisioned by TOS writers, and not the "STAR TREK" universe accepted by Rick Berman and company.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n I see. I accept the Berman universe, as you call it, simply because it was all put to film, so therefore i must accept it as canon.
By the way, what has Berman and Co. done wrong?
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 This is just my opinion, but whatever it is, Rick Berman did not, in at that time, and as far as I can see from what was produced, did not understand science fiction. The only thing of note is that before Rick Berman did before STAR TREK was the THE BIG BLUE MARBLE, a kid's show.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@basherman69 STAR TREK died when Gene Roddenberry died. And everyone who cared about STAR TREK left TNG out of frustration once Paramount decided to put Berman in charge. He did not understand what he was doing. And I'm not the only one who thinks this way, but other fans and casual viewers alike felt alienated by his conduct. I'll say one thing good about him: he managed to keep the show going, but it eventually ran of of steam. I don't hate the man, it's just that I'm not taken by him.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n ST:TNG, and its 24th Century spin-offs were successful with the Trekkers, so Berman, Piller, and Taylor must have been doing something right. One beef Roddenberry had with how Star Trek was developed was "too much militarism". His view of what became Starfleet was it was a futuristic version of NASA, and its members were explorers, not soldiers. This is why there was no rank insignia in the first two pilots. Roddenberry also didn't care for old naval traditions that seeped into ST:II.
basherman69 1 year ago
@bla31n Subsequent films also introduced more militarism, but as each movie (and TNG) was released, Roddenberry's influence over his creation diminished with his health.
I didn't have any issues with the military themes that were "forced" into Star Trek, and I like the 24th Century series. I did have some issues with Enterprise, as there were many episodes that contradicted later events in the ST universe. First contact with the Ferengi, for instance.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Well, as I've said it's a matter of opinion. I agree them modern shows did well to run several seasons, but during his tenor as producer Berman did make a lot of unhappy fans stop watching. I'll say at the time I didn't mind him but my opinions slowly started to make 180. Piller was good too, but as you indicated about INSURRECTION, he wrote it. Taylor was no D.C. Fontana.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n I'm still trying to get the gist of why you disapprove Rick Berman. You don't seem to agree with the militarism concept that caused GR to grow disillusioned with the evolution of his creation. I'm sure some fans stopped watching the spin-offs, but I think it was because they were getting tired of being 'bombarded" by DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, series that dropped in quality as original story ideas were running low. I started losing interest for the same reason in the late 1990s.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 I won't fool you into thinking that I revere Roddenberry over Berman because of my dissatisfaction with the latter. I did at a time like DS9 and VGR but as you said the quality of those programs started slipping. In fact VGR I had hoped to watch an excellent show about a crew stranded on the far side of the galaxy and many possible stories dealing with their survival. I didn't see that. How does a ship come out unscathed after being lost for several seasons before coming home?
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n Ah, Voyager. My friends used to joke about failed plotlines involving quick ways of getting home as the dreaded "Gilligan's Island Syndrome". Voyager certainly looked very pristine by the time "Endgame" signed off. It was about the time Voyager attained "middle age" that I stopped watching regularly.
By the way, was there anything practical about Seven of Nine's attire? I'm sure she got a lot of catcalls from male viewers (I was one of them) over her catsuit, but did it make sense?
basherman69 1 year ago
@bla31n Furthermore, I wonder if some of those outfits Troi wore on the early seasons of TNG were Starfleet issue. It sure looked attractive to look at, but is it the kind of attire you would want your psychiatrist to be wearing if you had some serious emotional issues to work out? Then again, Troi would be a quick fix for erectile dysfunction. :)
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Did you know that Gene wanted the shrink to have three breasts?
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n Yes, and no. Jon Povill, writer of the movie "Total Recall", the movie that actually had a three-breasted woman, worked for GR in the late 70s during the time of the aborted Phase II project. That idea may have been tossed around at that time, but whether the idea originated with Gene or Povill, I don't know.
Povill also co-wrote "The Child", a Phase II script that was recycled for TNG. That episode is currently in post-production for James Cawley's Phase II web series.
basherman69 1 year ago
@basherman69 Roddenberry was an anomaly. He may come up with the idea of STAR TREK, but others did most of the dirty work for him. I give credit to Gene L. Coon and D.C. Fontana for shaping TREK as we know it. When Harold Livingston produced TMP he had locked horns with Roddenberry when he constantly rewrote the script. And lets forget him and Harlan Ellison.
Bla31n 1 year ago
@Bla31n I agree that Coon and Fontana were the biggest contributors to TOS, perhaps more instrumental in the shaping of the series than GR himself. ST:TMP was the lone movie Roddenberry had any direct influence over, but fans are mixed over the final screen result. This is why Harve Bennett took over the movie series from TWOK onwards.
Harlan Ellison? I'm familiar with behind-the-scenes battles the writer had with Roddenberry and William Shatner, whom he called "The Great Actor."
basherman69 1 year ago
amazing
filigrant 1 year ago
You could've done without TMP music.
Bla31n 1 year ago
Jeeeeeeeze, if THESE were the effects that were actually IN this movie, it may have held my interest!
Fantastic work!
Lx3IV 1 year ago
One thing always bugged me - if Kirk and party were on earth why did'nt they beam back up to spacedock? and who piloted the Enterprise out of spacedock? I know Jim did'nt have his communicator but I would expect the ever logical Spock to have his!
TRUMPER007 1 year ago
@TRUMPER007 They had problems throughout the movie with the transporters, and who said it was in spacedock, think there are more ships outside spacedock than in spacedock. my $0,02
wjaspers 1 year ago
@wjaspers - was'nt there exterior footage showing the Enterprise in spacedock (same footage as in Trek IV) ?
TRUMPER007 1 year ago
@TRUMPER007 yes. But a capital ship must have more than one qualified pilot to take it out of dock :)
starsiegeplayer 1 year ago
Damn, that was better than the first version!
Lx3IV 1 year ago
Damn dude this is great. My favorite shot is at 0:15. It was so graceful and looked better than the special effects in the new Star Trek movie. I also like it because it was a reverse of the same view at the end of Star Trek 4. Did you have that in mind?
CommissionerBele 1 year ago
FANTASTIC! Absolutely fan-freaking-tastic!
1701Tex 1 year ago
I see that in 23th century flat screen TVs was not invented yet.
jerryaltman 1 year ago
sweeeeeeetttttt !!!!
captjami 2 years ago
What's always bothered me about Classic Trek is that the shuttle bays are HUGE. I mean, the Enterprise is supposed to hold about 400-some people, and those shuttles clearly don't hold more then five to eight.
So...I guess the shuttles and people suddenly change size in the shuttle bay? Is anybody else bothered by that, or is it just me?
Oh, and great cgi work, been watching the vids, and they're cool.
Gragthor 2 years ago
@Gragthor Actually, in STV, they got the scale very wrong... possibly due to budget.
Matt Jeffries planned out the entire size of the ship, and indeed, the shuttle bay is "huge" - search google for scans of his drawings.
As for the number of people who would need to escape, that's what the troop transporters and various 6 man transporters are for.
RobertMfromLI 2 years ago
@Gragthor
As for the ever changing shuttle size... the problem is when AMT built the full size exterior model, it was not quite the right size and did not match the sets.
If you watch an episode like Galileo 7, you will notice that when the camera is outside and they are stepping in, they cannot stand up. But the interior shots (most of which were not filmed in the big model, but an interior set) allows them to stand.
Neat stuff how they tried working around that.
RobertMfromLI 2 years ago
Oh wow that is all i can say to your creation, this would make me watch ST5 again, for me it was the special effects that let it down, ill gloss over the story and Shatners ego but the music is amazing, cant wait to see more 5/5
Wharding85 2 years ago
Holy crap! This might actually make STV watchable! Excellent work!
PrfMoriarty 2 years ago 4
@PrfMoriarty Your remastered TOS "The Doomsday Machine" was watchable, too. Wassup with completing it? Inquiring fans would like to know. :)
basherman69 1 year ago
OMG!
Me and you need to talk, lol.
CJCA915 2 years ago
Actually with some rotoing you could probably remove/replace the reflection of the ship and moon on the shuttle window.
BarryDennen12 2 years ago
looks so good, can't wait to see the finished movie
STE4096 2 years ago 7
Your stuff is perfect!
startrekking2 2 years ago
Very very nice!
ant10279 2 years ago