Re: A Goddess Called Mary

[JorEl7771]

The Goddess "Mary" goes back before Christianity was around. Christianity stole from paganism. The Mother and Child is ancient. So it's hypocritical to condemn Paganism when in fact Christianity is Paganism. The Queen of Heaven is talked about in the OT but the Hebrews condemn their worship. History is repeating itself. Today Christians Condemn Goddess worship. Extreemely sad!

[adreecage]

Pentacostal? That is one crazy church with their loud music, dancing, and speaking in weird languages that no one understands.

Alex Jones, a well known Pentacostal Pastor quit his church in order to join the Catholic Church and half of his congregation joined him. Now these are black people who are used to singing and dancing during services.

He discovered the Catholic Church when he did his research on who were the early Christians and he found out they weren't Pentacostals.

[loudmouthspeaker]

if one wants to be honest about the RCC one should look at the: rosary, pennance,

purgatory.. mary saving people from purgatory, the apparitions of mary and false teaching that goes with it..

mary being present during mass... I could go on but the list is extensive... get my point..

[Naturalhit]

The problem with your Bible is that you don't have Maccabees where it is explained that you should pray for the dead. Jesus, Mary and the Saints are present in the mass. They are of spirits and not of flesh who can only be confined to one place.

Besides where in the Bible does it say that speaking in tongue is the authority of the church? You guys speak incoherent words that nobody can understand while in Acts the people understood the Apostles in their dialect. So tell me about this?

[loudmouthspeaker]

if natural wants to be honest he should reveal what is meant be the catholic term bible and tradtion... its well know that the RCC use these words to suite them selves..

most would think the they would be the same but they are not... its a fact the the bible is not the RCC highest authority and its tradtions are far from being christian...

catholics use these terms for their own benefit....we see through the smoke screen..

[Naturalhit]

Bible came forth from the tradition of the church. If you notice men who were in relation to Jesus thru Apostleship or in relation to Apostles wrote those. They were already practicing breaking of bread & meeting on a Sunday before tradition was put in letters.

What do you think? Written words first and then tradition? Again the Bible wasn't put together till 394 & 397 &again it was the Catholics who put it together.

I still want to know why speaking in tongue is the center of your faith?

[loudmouthspeaker]

Hi, tligren forgets to realize that all the contitations which have been applied to mary are only summized theories and assumptions..

there is nothing concrete in the bible which states in black and white what the catholics believe....

ect ect ect ... views of humans  loudmouthspeaker

[patrissimo]

The Bible is very clear in teaching 100% Catholicism. It requires humility and proper training to see. You lack both.

[loudmouthspeaker]

you are actualy miss informed.. the bible teaches christian principles not the roman catholic doctrine... the two are like water and oil the two dont mix... the RCC has added and twisted the word of God to suite its self ...

[Naturalhit]

Again you are wrong. Those Christian principle are catholic. No other denomination existed before 16ce. So whatever you refer to then is what catholics are today.

[bella50008]

@patrissimo..the Bible does NOT teach catholicism. the cc does indeed deify mary not the real mary of course but some demon you've conveniently named "mary. smh.

[2008805]

Apparently you've never read the Bible.

[Naturalhit]

Yet Catholics remained united for 2000 years. The Bible &Tradition is our strength.

If the Bible is concrete for you Pentacostal, how come you guys are divided. There are so many sub-denomination within your denomination. Is it because that if someone disagree with your Pastor that person can go ahead and start his/her own Pentecostal?

If speaking in tongue is your profession of God's Kingdom then how come you all sound different and incoherent?

Yup, I've been to a # of your church

[loudmouthspeaker]

catholics havnt remained united.. there is alot if discord with in the church...

[Naturalhit]

Name some? Sure you can name Martin Luther which was a major one, but the church is united.

I can easily name the discord in your Pentecostal church.

[loudmouthspeaker]

i should think you should be aware of the doctrinal teachings within your own church.... i have been of a few my self...

[Naturalhit]

I'm more aware of the doctrinal teaching moreso than you. Our previous debate should have proven that you already.

Funny how you don't like to talk about your church and how sway from it. If you want to question RCC then be prepare to have your Pentecostal church question.

So who gave you guys the authority to start your church and how come there's differences in your practice and belief?

[loudmouthspeaker]

Hi,

all of the doctrines about mary are clearly fabricated and lies. mary isnt a queen of heaven nor our co mediatrix nor is she the bride of the holly spirit..

all these views held by the RCC are nothing but a distortion of the truth.. no where in the bible state anything like what the RCC taeches

its a clear fabrication nothing more an intential lie made to decieve people

dont like the truth loudmouthspeaker

[tlingren]

You have it 100% backwards.  It is you who have fallen for this world's lies and you don't even begin to know what you are talking about. Humble yourself.

[mannyfit75]

Mary is the Queen of Heaven. She is the Woman of Revelation 12:1-5. This woman gave birth to male child who will rule all nations with an iron rod. This child is Jesus, if this child is Jesus, logically speaking the woman of Revelation 12:1-5 is Mary.

[loudmouthspeaker]

hi actually the woman isnt mary as you say...its actually isreal where jesus came from... queen of heaven ect are all been fabricated by the RCC to keep the lies about mary going...

[Naturalhit]

You are relating that to the book of Daniel. I highly recommend you read Dr. Scott Hahn titled "Catholic for a Reason." He was a former Protestant Minister. He explains why it is Mary in much detail and what Rev. 12 means. He talks about the prophecy of Mary in the OT all the way to the NT.

This man used to think the same way as you Protestants.

[Naturalhit]

To explain Rev 12, first go to Gen 3:15 where it was prophesied that a WOMAN and her SON would crush the head of the serpent. Not the nation of Gods people (Israel), but a woman. Secondly, we know that Jesus is the Messiah, & that He and the WOMAN would crush the head of the serpent. In the Gospel of John, how did Jesus refer to Mary? We know Mary was His mother, and Jesus would never disrespect her because Jesus never sinned, so WHY did He always refer to her as WOMAN?

[adreecage]

Israel in the time of Jesus is actually not a nation, but people. Because in Jesus time the nation or country is called Palestine. So Israel in the NT refers to God's people.

Now Woman in Rev. can not mean Israel because it's people. And people can not bore the SON or Jesus because it is they that needs to be saved.

So when John in Rev. refers to Woman, it is the same Woman Jesus refered too in John's Gospel. Yes, John wrote both the Gospel and the Rev. He knows what he's talking about

[Naturalhit]

For someone who is a Pentecostal you got holly spirit wrong. It's Holy Spirit.

You guys failed to connect as to why Jesus called Mary, Woman, according to the Gospel of John and what the Woman in Revelation, again written by John, mean.

Mediatrix means Mary praying for you if you ask her too. This is Mary's main role in the church. If you're praying for someone then you are mediating too. Mary is already in Heaven so her prayers for us would be very valuable.

[loudmouthspeaker]

where does it say that those like mary pray for us ... i am told that mary can get prayers answered when even jesus cant...

this whole idea is false.... Jesus died not

mary - she didnt ascend like jesus

[Naturalhit]

James 5:16: The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Mary is a rigtheous person. Mary prays for you if you ask her too.

[hapipadi]

Great explanation!! i am very disappointed by Protestants who keep accusing us of something that we do not believe. They do not see what we see, they do not want to listen to what we teach... so there is a part of it that makes me think it is useless to engage these people... so i am beginning to think that i should focus my attention to my fellow Catholics and talk about things that may edify their catholic identity. you do that in your videos. thanks a lot for your efforts!!

[utorres6091]

"Children gather wood, fathers light fires, and women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven. They pour out wine offerings to other gods in order to make me furious". Jeremiah 7:18 You are truly lost.

[patrissimo]

What does any of that have to do with Catholic Marian doctrines? You're not making any sense. And who made you the infallible interpreter of scripture? Please directly and forthrightly answer these questions before saying anything else.

[utorres6091]

like I said LOST. It is very sad that you will never understand. My point is that you should not worship mary, and dont deny that you do.

[patrissimo]

Who are you to say if I am lost and will never understand? You show incredible lack of understanding. Explain what it is I apparently don't understand. What about the points I made in the video? Yo haven't said anything about that. I have been where you are and your argument proves too much for you - you just don't see that yet.

[butterflyjemily]

You're quoting scripture from the Book of Jeremiah, from the Old Testament. Did Mary exist during this time period? No.

[butterflyjemily]

Yes, Jeremiah did prophesize the Incarnation, and therefore, the coming existences of Mary and Jesus (Jer 2:32). However, he was most likely alluding this "queen of heaven" to the Sumerian pagan goddess, Inanna or Ishtar. This appellation is easily mistaken, as likewise, the word "lion" in Scripture describes Jesus as the lion of Judah (Rev 5:5) and God (Hosea 5:14, 11:10), yet the devil is also associated with the same symbol (1 Peter 5:8).

[utorres6091]

Exactly, I believe the early catholic church, in a sort of conspiracy adopted Ishtar, or Astarte, and applied to the mother of Jesus. I believe this was deliberately done to divert people from the true source of salvation.

[butterflyjemily]

Catholics do not worship Mary nor the saints. We venerate or honor them. You may ask, Isn't this a mere distraction from prayer to God? Why not pray directly to God? The Lord wants us to "love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor (Rom 12:10)."

[butterflyjemily]

(cont.) It is by glorifying the saints, born sinful creatures, then renewed in the fire of God's love to do solely His will, that Catholics are truly praising God, His magnificent creations of these holy men and women. If you want to praise God to the highest degree, honor, not worship, the saints and Mary.

[butterflyjemily]

Continuing on the discussion of the quoted scripture (Rom 12:10), it is more evident the Lord urges the intercessory prayer to Mary and the saints in Eph 6:18-19. Again, it is not to place full focus on them, rather, the intercessory prayer is either to praise God highly of His magnificent creation or to plead these "holy ones" to bear our burdens (Gal 6:2). For instance, in this prayer to Mary: Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

[butterflyjemily]

Understandably, the veneration of Mary and the saints is a hard concept to digest. You may consider this analogy. Toddler Tom, knowing not how to tie his shoes, frequently asks his father to help him. However, one day, the father finds that his young son asks his older sister Liza to instead help him. Is the father jealous? Of course not. He, in fact, is deeply touched by this sibling affection and takes joy and pride of love blossoming in his family.

[butterflyjemily]

(cont.) Similarly, the Father rejoices, rejoices in the mutual affection between Mary and the saints and those living on earth. Intercessory prayer to the saints is not to result distraction from God, but live the truth that Christ is the head of church/body. By petitioning the saints, they can bear our burdens and directly plead the Lord His intervenience. Recall, the Father rejoices and is praised by this work of intercession. This is, in whole, the Catholic doctrine of communion of saints.

[GreekOrthodoxy]

That's ridiculous, and it rests on the post hoc (false cause) fallacy. There is no cause and effect relationship. Mary has absolutely nothing to do with Astarte. There is NO salvation in Astarte. What's your evidence of an intentional conspiracy? Nothing.

[RockyBalboa211]

God is all, no one can ever know anything about him he is absolute! patrissimo your a good man god bless you!

[96niksh]

Wait pls don't criticise we don't call mary a goddess!Why do you have to criticse us to much we don't criticise all of you, we are humans we came from our mother's womb and our routine everyday is same and we came from God.

We just pray through her to get to Jesus.

[1Hope4All]

Well said, and to the point.

I don't understand how some people just don't get it. o_0 They just haven't been given the gift of faith. I pray that some day they will get it.

Peace & God bless.

Sandy

[Childinfaith]

Exactly. It was around that time when herecy was running rampid around Europe and the true faith needed a distict name to set itself above all the other deluded versions.

[robertwazhere92]

awesome, some truth

[catholiccourage]

Very accurately and beautifully stated.

[WordOfSalvation]

It takes more than seeing a video on youtube RESEARCH HISTORY, read the word of god in the original bible( sadly missing books) the kings james or reina valera. TELL ME WHAT ARE THE PRINCIPLES HERE, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THem then you are meant to understand them.

[WordOfSalvation]

You are truly wasting your time arguing over this, A true christian must understand that many will hear not hear, see and not see, What must be done is come together as one,I do not think we have to label ourselfs mormouns nor catholics or wittnesses,Why? For what isn't the word of christ simple enough to follow

[patrissimo]

The differences between religions actually do matter.

[WordOfSalvation]

well my friend,lets put aside the catholic bible and the king james version. or reyna valera. and now lets open our history books. Look up Isis Queen of Heaven. Then look up Simon Magus.Forget religion lets look at historic facts. ok? so we can get along

[IAmBiggestFan]

THEOTOKOS

[IAmBiggestFan]

look up THEOTOKOS

[Childinfaith]

If anybody here actually had a basic knowledge of history, they would know that we it wasn't always called the Catholic Church. When it was first birthed it was refered to as the Christian Church. When the barbarians took to Chritianity they deluded scripute and formed hericies all over Europe. It was decided to give a specific name to the true faith of Christ which we now know as the Catholic Church. Catholic meaning universal, for all men in the world should follow Jesus in his Church.

[patrissimo]

St. Ignatius of Antioch was already calling the true Church Catholic in 107 AD.

[michiganois]

100% correct! You get an "A" in history, partrissimo. The term Christian was a disparing name given us as mocking those who were "Christ followers." The reason that "Catholic" was used by Ignatius, who was a protege of the apostles was that it was to be understood as a "Universal" and not merely one nation's church.

[Sanguiluna]

But if you read the writing of Ignatius of Antioch, an early Church father, he says "Where Christ is, so too is the Catholic Church".

[Death2TheWorld]

*presuppositions

[chichi2joe]

What about those interesting pictures you are holding in your video which are supposedly to be "Jesus" and "Mary with small Jesus" in her hands. When and where were they short, here on earth or in heaven?

[chichi2joe]

I am all hears and my eyes are on the Scriptures. Is 9:20, Acts 17:11, 2 Tim 3:16, Acts 1:16, Heb. 3:7, 2 Pet 1:21 etc. Jesus used the Scriptures to defeat satan. This the only way to test the spirits. The "self-defeating ASSumption" phase sounds arrogant but can be ignored if your answers are really concrete.

[Evfimy]

The saints are not omnipresent like God is, to quote Archbishop Chrysostomos. But they do hear all our prayers. Chich, you are appealing to a sacred text (the Bible) that was canonized by a religion you don't even belong to (Catholicism). If you are going to accept the former, you must of necessity accept the latter. You cannot have one without the other.

[patrissimo]

My answer challenged your unsupported assumptions. You quote scripture as though you have not been challenged on your right to even do so. The NT scriptures you quote were written and compiled by Catholics for Catholics. You cannot establish a table of contents for scripture without appealing to Catholic church authority.

[chichi2joe]

Since you two don't want me to quote scriptures which belong to "Catholic Church only", let's reason logically. Your Mary is in heaven and catholics all around are praying to her, she is not omnipscient so she does not hear all prayers but God the Father, Son & H.Spirit does. So what is the use asking her to pray for you if God all the same hear your prayers? I am quoting your previous answer.

[Evfimy]

Again, Mary is not omnipresent as God is. That is, she is probably not aware of eversingle atom and molecule in the universe, but as a deified saint, participating in the life of God, she hears all our prayers to her.

[chichi2joe]

This is a docutrine which needs to be backed by scriputures. Please give me some verses from the Bible. You may use the NT written by catholics for catholics.

[Evfimy]

No it doesn't have to be backed by Scripture. That idea comes from protestantism which rejects the Church. The Bible is a history of Divine revelation. Not a system of beliefs. The Church is infallible and guided by the Holy Spirit. Your view of Scripture is wrong.

[bulyabalive]

2 Tim 3:15-16 ..and how from infance you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in ríghteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

[patrissimo]

Which scriptures did Timothy know from infancy?

Who is the "man of God?"

[bulyabalive]

How many do we have?

Nah. 1:7 "The Lord is good, a stong hold in the day of trouble; and He KNOWS them that trust in Him."

[Death2TheWorld]

The Scriptures are useful and God breathed. That text doesn't say Scripture alone. You are reading into it your theological presuppisitions.

[bulyabalive]

Mat22:29 "Jesus answered and said to them, you do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God."

[patrissimo]

I'm still waiting for an answer as to who "the man of God" is.

[bulyabalive]

Acts 2:19-22.

Rev. 3:5 "He that overcomes, the same shall be lothed in white rainment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels".

Jn: 14:21 "He that has My commandments, and KEEPS them, he it is that loves Me: and he that loves Me shall be loved of My Father..."

Jn:14:23 "If a man love Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him and We will come to him, and make OUR BODE with him."

Many much more.

[patrissimo]

Where is "man of God" in here?

[patrissimo]

Your argument assumes a finite conception of God. There are only a finite number of people and so at any given time Mary would be hearing a finite number of prayers only. This does not require omniscience which is infinite rather than finite. It merely requires a finite power up to the task. Are you saying that God isn't powerful enough to give Mary such an ability?

[bulyabalive]

All I am saying is that God did not give that power to Mary, God never even once in the scriptures to give such a power to anyone. That ability is only finite to God alone (Job 28:1-28); (Acts 17:27); (Prov. 15:3); (Ezek. 11:5) and Rom. 1:20) these scriptures talks about God's finite as Onmipresent & Omniscient. Neither does God share his glory with anyone. I wonder who is assuming?

[chichi2joe]

Patrissimo, your answer makes me wonder what authority you take, Man's or God's. But what you indicate here seems that you don't really believe what is written in the word of God, the Bible. But my question still stands, the ability of Mary to hear all prayers at the same time. Explain it please.

[chichi2joe]

Does the Pope wake up one day and declare a dogma that Mary is sinless because of previlages. Why is this teaching not mentioned in the Bible even once? The greetings of the angel simple declared her "highly favoured" or "full of grace" does that include sinless?

[patrissimo]

You are simply ASSuming, without apparent justification, that the bible has to say something in order foe it to be true. If your self-defeating ASSumption were true, you wouldn't even have a bible as you know it. Open your eyes and ears my friend.

[chichi2joe]

An average Catholic prays to Mary through the rosary more than to God. There about 900 million catholics in the world. Is Mary Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient as God to hear all these prayers at the same time?

[patrissimo]

This is a misguided and untrue argument you are using. Every Rosay mentions both God and christ AND Mary's relationship to them as a creature to them. Your argument is ignorant. Open your eyes and ears.

[Evfimy]

I still think Roman Catholics go over board with Mary. It borders on idolatry. God is also extremely merciful. That does not give us liscense to sin.

[patrissimo]

She is more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.

[peteordie]

Please answer my questions.

[patrissimo]

How long did it take for the New Testament canon to be settled?

[patrissimo]

Still waiting...

[peteordie]

This video or others like it are not necessar. God does not need our religions that includes the Catholic Church, Protestant Churches, etc. His requirements are plain in his word. He wants us to be saved His way, not our ways. Why make it so complicated. Why bring in things which are not necessary. The Marys, the saints, the dogmas, etc?

[patrissimo]

The dogmas are absolutely necessary. You lack appreciation because you lack understanding. To deny any dogma is to deny that God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived. We have real people like Mary and the saints because our beliefs are real.

[peteordie]

Dec. 8th 1854, Pope Pius IX declared that Mary was immaculate in her conception and that there is no salvation to those who do not believe thid dogma! My question is - why did it take that long for the "Holy Father" to "receive this communication from "God"? Question No 2. Who is a Saint? What qualification does one need to become a Saint? Still I am not bring up any scripture.

[patrissimo]

When was the New Testament canon declared to be 27 books from Matthew to Revelation, no more and no less?

[peteordie]

Yes religions can twist the scriptures to convince people for their benefit, the Church in Rome which you are poud of added to the scriptures - God will judge that, traditions and "Holy Fathers" are much more important to its followers that the Scriptures and God who gave them. The wiser than God attitude is obvious. And theirs is the "True Church" and to be saved you must belong to it.

[patrissimo]

If Catholicism is so bad, then why do the critics of the Catholic Church continue to make up the kind of nonsense that makes videos like this necessary?

[chichi2joe]

I have been following what the Church in Rome teaches and I have realised that they don`t need anything more because they are full - too full actually. People who are well don`t need a doctor. "Blessed are the poor in the spirit..." If you are rich then you don`t need more. The word of God can be twisted according to what you want, so it is pointless in this case to bring it up.

[patrissimo]

But a far stronger case can be made that it is Protestants and other non-Catholics who are twisting scripture.

[chichi2joe]

Sure, I will pray for you as long as I am alive, not when I am dead. Mary the mother of Jesus (not the mother of God) is dead and buried and possibly we will meet her in heaven. Still I say, seek God with sincere heart and you will find Him. God speaks through his word, and in the Bible we are commanded to pray for one another not to the dead.

[patrissimo]

Do you believe in soul sleep?

[VOORHEES320]

1) you can prove mary is dead,there is high belief that she along with other saints were assumed into heaven 2)jesus is god,there for mary is the mother of god. it was elizabeth who addressed mary as the mother of the lord [in luke]

[chichi2joe]

Endless explanations. Why waste time praying to this "Mary" and not offer your prayers to God through his precious Son. What about forgeting you are catholics or protestants and go down on your knees and sincerely ask God to show you the truth. After all He loves you as you are and not your inventend religions, dogmas and traditions. Do you believe He can talk to you? Approach Him with a sincere open heart. Blessed are the poor in the Spirit..

[patrissimo]

The vast amount of ignorance and disinformation on this subject out there makes the "endless explanations" necessary. If I asked you to pray for me, would you do it or would you refuse?

[VOORHEES320]

it is biblical to pray to god through the saints,it happens 12x in scripture,3x in the books that protestants subtracted from scripture. these tradtions and religon that we "invented" are what jesus himself left for us to practice

[peteordie]

Do you mind giving us the scriptures? Including those "subtracted by protestants"? Who is the saint?

[patrissimo]

How long did it take the NT canon to be settled?

[GoldMongoose]

Hey Man! Wecome aboard! How ya Been?