Re: The fake bombing at the ROM, Toronto, 28.11.07

[anadgnik]

Only a member of the fiscal upper-class,you'd call'em bourgeoisie, ever would think to DO something so violently asinine, so arrogant, and dare to hold tight to insolence in the face of trenchant reason.

Plus, in any context, or circle -- the idea was lame. I mean, it was damaging, but also: just childish and silly. The Grown-Ups just just just chuckle.

[mohip050]

the upper class is a tax bracket and the bourgeoisie is a group of people who share values, they're not the same thing. so for instance, the bourgeoisie are defined my materialism (check a dictionary) but the upper class are sometime driven by altruism.

as far as the 'insolence in the face of trenchant reason' part. it's very poetic, but i'm not sure what it means. maybe you'd care to explain yourself in prose?

p.s. that's nice, that you speak for all grown ups.

[DangerBoysProduction]

Oh yeah, I can't take credit for that walking thing. It was done using a game, so it wasn't animated from scratch. You just put in what you want it to do and stuff like that.

[ianbarclay2000]

Therefore Hitler and ponh pet were artist

[kunglek]

the ROM bomb affair.

It was a threat to public safety due to the nature of the artistic expression. This however is not much different than alarmist hysteria being thrown at us virtually everyday.

I would guess though that people who emigrate here and have been actually effected by bombings in their native countries wouldn't be too supportive of the art aspect.

[mohip050]

That's certainly a point worth responding to. My family is from Sri Lanka where bombings are an everyday fact of life. in fact in the week this project was shown a bomb went off where fifteen people died.

oddly enough none of my family, or for that matter any immigrant community that I know of has complained about this. we're pretty chill about this sort of thing. as far as we're concerned, it's only a bomb if it explodes.

[mohip050]

the first part of what you're saying has a lot of relevance here though, and that's part of the piece. no matter what type of hysteria that's thrown at us by the press, nobody complains and we don't see how much of an overreaction it is and how much of an impact it has on public perception. then something like this piece here comes along and shows us.

[kingmotoronto69]

frankly, i think the whole "bomb as art" debate is misdirected... its validity is more to the point centred on its points about contemporary "fear and insecurity". whatever, i don't find that its a terribly original comment, artistic or otherwise.

the stupidity of the whole fiasco, however, is the larger implications it had for public safety, community services, and for people living with HIV/AIDS for chrissakes! what an short-sighted and immature idiot!

[mohip050]

thank you for your input, DangerBoys.

I don't mean to suggest that that everything that makes you think is art, I am suggesting not that everything that makes you think is necessarily great art, but that great art always makes you think.

[mohip050]

thinking in a way that is really important at the moment. one of the things that we've heard again and again is that this was a bad idea 'especially in these times'.

the 'especially in these times' is really the focus of this piece, the psychology of the times we live in.

[mohip050]

You say that this didn't require 'talent'. I'm not sure if you mean skill when you say talent.

in any case, it did require woodworking skills. I saw the 'bomb' and the woodworking was excellent.

[mohip050]

secondly, does requiring talent make something art? like if you're really good with a yo-yo would that make it art?

in closing, we all really liked your video, especially the wobbly walk which we thought was HILARIOUS. we were imitating it all last night.

[DangerBoysProduction]

Thank you for your kind comments.

I still would disagree about the art thing though. I think that even if this had happened in a less paranoid time, since it looks like a bomb, people would always think of it as one. If he had placed a box there, the point may be a bit more accurate, but it wasn't unreasonable to believe his device was a bomb.

[DangerBoysProduction]

While I don't believe that anything involving talent is artistic, I do believe that art should involve a bit of talent or skill, or at least an attempt at using some. Making the bomb may have taken skill. I'm focusing more on him placing the bomb in the museum, which he said was art.

And thank you for not getting defensive or name calling or anything. It's nice to not have to have hostility in a disagreement these days, as so many people do. Congratulations on your view count as well.

[mohip050]

I understand you. placing the bomb certainly didn't involve as much talent as making the 'bomb' but it did take a lot of balls eh?

ps. thanks about the view count too, you were leading us for a long time there, maybe it'll turn around again. who knows. anyway we're both doing pretty well at keeping the conversation going. I haven't heard people talk so much about what 'art is' in... well ever. so it's accomplished that for sure.

[DangerBoysProduction]

Well, kind of. I'd say it was more of an act of ignorance than one of courage though.

Yeah, mine was high for a while but it's died down a bit. Yours is going pretty well. This is the highest I've ever had a video go in such a short time!

[jimmiecat]

ceci n'est pas une pipe (bomb) - unoriginal at best.

[mohip050]

the effect of the piece would have been very different if he had hidden a magritte painting in a museum. or even an unoriginal magritte knockoff.

The point, I think, is not that the represented object is illusory, but that your reactions to them are illusory as well. They appear to be real but they are not.

[jimmiecat]

RE: Magritte. I referenced it because they both address the treachery of images - "this is not a pipe" is a correct statement because it is only a photo of a pipe. Illusions. I did not mean hide his painting all over the museum to get a rush out of people.

[illestwhite]

basically, i should grab you by your emo hair and drag you across the floor, go get more dick in your ass fag. your a homo.

[jimmiecat]

I think you just supported their theory that idiots get angry.

[mohip050]

hey thanks jimmiecat, I appreciate that even if you don't like the work itself you can maintain a civil tone.

[feherman86]

Dear Mohip50; Are you nuts. There are five hospitals just south of the ROM that depend on open roads to save lives. What if an emergency vehicle needed to rush someone from north of Bloor to TGH or Sick Kids. This was done on public land that belongs to all of us. How dare you defend putting a realistic looking explosive device in a public place.

[feherman86]

Have you checked what is on this alleged human beings you tube account. His own self impotance is greater than any belief in common care for all. Artists do not degrade other people.

[mohip050]

well firstly, artists are pretty self important people. (I assume you meant to say self important). I am an artist and i know a ton of artists and they, myself included, have a pretty high estimation of the value of their work. you have to to be an artist just to keep going. in defense of my own self importance, it's better to be self important than it is to be self unimportant

as for artists not degrading other people, you clearly don't know very many artists.

[feherman86]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. I agree artists have a high level of self confidence and focus, this is not in dispute. My point is artists do not have more rights and privilege then any other human being.

Can I put a replica of a gun to your head and call your reaction "The Art of Fear".

If you had a surge of adrenaline that stopped your heart...well you forgive me for cutting your heart capicity in half for the rest of your life.

[feherman86]

Mohip50; Can I tie a black man or a gay man to the back of a truck and call it "Bigotry in Motion". Of course not!! If my written word here brings out feelings of rage and anger than my goal as a writer has been reached. I can argue my writings are literature. Tolstoy believed that art was the passive communication of thought and feeling.

Only George W. Bush supporters agree with unprovoked violence against your fellow man.

[feherman86]

As far as me knowing many artists is concerned, I have been making a living with cold rolled steel as a medium and form of expression for over 30 years.

Like I said earlier, artist do not degrade people...ideas yes but not the innocent.

[mohip050]

I'm not sure how this would differ from, say, the santa claus parade. an ambulance might be blocked by Santa's sleigh or a float from the gay pride parade just as easily.

remember, even planned events can get in the way of an ambulance.

having said that, are you sure you're not just using any excuse, no matter how unreasonable, to object to this work?

[feherman86]

Mohip050; Don't even think that you can win this arguement my friend. EMS strategically plan for scheduled events.

I do not believe in the censorship of ideas or expression, I object to his deliberate act of putting fear into unwilling participants.

I bet you believe President George Bush is bringing freedom to the world too?!?

[feherman86]

Think of the irony using the Gay Pride Parade as an example of city disruption.

The Gay Pride Parade is a celebration for all people to share, in the accomplishment of human rights equality.

The ROM Bomb is harm to all people for the selfish view and pleasure of one person.

Remember the bomber in one interview did state, he knew their would be disruption to the city but not to a great level.

[feherman86]

Mohip050; Because Parades are publicly advertised in advance, I also have the opportunity to avoid an area like downtown during a parade.

[lesleemandoki]

I totally agree.

[agreatwhitebird]

The whole point is that anything can be experienced as art, even when it's not created with that intention, even if it's disruptive and no matter who labels it as art. It seems like most people are only able to see this as either art or crime, and there's a very few people out there who see it as some kind of combination. I think that's an interesting thing to consider, because it begs the question: what's the real relationship between art and public disruption?

[Nickii1234]

I completely agree.

[mohip050]

salem's loft supports Thorarinn Ingi Jonsson, because great art makes thinking people think and unthinking people angry

[DangerBoysProduction]

I don't agree. Anything can make somebody think. That doesn't mean that everything is art. Just because something makes you think, doesn't mean it is art. Plus, I tend to believe art takes talent, something that the whole ROM Bomb thing didn't take.

[wardenwarden73]

Let us say that this was great art. Does that mean the people involved in the AIDS fundraiser at the ROM were unthinking people? You have not thought through your naive defense of this childish act very well.