So Jim let me get this straight - God is hiding purposefully so you may seek him. And if you happened to be looking in the "wrong" places and die trying, you end up in hell. This God plays strange games.
Creation is Gods word it can nether be duplicated nor forged and the whole world can understand it - Thomas Paine Sorry I will skip the dogma. Nice try though. Love ya man.
Matthew 7:7 speaks of a seeking/finding process but I don't think its quite like the hide and seek childhood experience that you imply. And for the record I agree that Creation is a good (but not the only) reasonable link to God's existence. As you know I believe He sent His son too which is a rather obvious gesture...not one of hiding.
You mentiioned "roadblocks" to faith and believing. Sometimes roadblocks are there to avoid driving off cliffs, or into lakes etc... To remove certain road blocks could be akin to driving rational thought into a brick wall.
OK, I'm the guy who thumbed you down. At this point, I'm the only one. Even though I like your personality and the excellent production value, I see you've taken the "I'm speaking for god, as god" stance. When a believer takes does the "Oh he wants to know you" thing, it's a big turn off. Otherwise, not a bad video. Not bad at all.
I hesitated to do that for the very reason you mentioned. I thought most might overlook it though since it was done in a self deprecating way. Thanks for the feedback.
I'm back for more, bro, & I promise to lay off the child indoctrination kick.
I appreciate your sincere desire to have others believe as you do based upon the beliefs you hold to be true about the metaphysical nature of reality.
That said, your "argument" consisted of nothing more than declarative statements & bald assertions.
And it's those who have no good argument who stoop to asserting that anyone who doesn't believe as they do is simply not opening their mind up enough.
The point of this video was that no argument will solve the issue for you. Arguments serve as good tools for removing doubts or giving good reasons to consider belief. But no argument will make a person take the subjective, personal steps of praying to God, repenting, and accepting Christ.
Nope, not convincing. I could say the same thing but replace "God" (which isn't the character's name, by the way) with "Flying Spaghetti Monster", and it would be the same thing.
This was not meant to convince. It was meant to make fun of myself for thinking I could in the first place. You ultimately have the responsibility for whether or not you want to seek out the Creator of our universe. I claim to have sought and found. Inviting you to do the same is not a scientific pursuit.
@TheEdge012 I have no way of knowing if the universe even was created. It's a scientific question, so the scientific method is the only way to go about the investigation. To make it about your personal desires and decisions is completely absurd.
@KelsoFabulous Hey Kelso how are you ? the music you can get if you search royalty free music and the effect is with Windows movie maker if you use that. Hope all is well.
So god's all like, "I made myself perfectly invisible so no evidence could ever be provided. Now, ignore your rationality and the fact that the absolutely undetectable and the nonexistent look exactly the same, accept what one holy book out of hundreds of others says, or I'll torture you forever."
@TheEdge012 There is no credible evidence at all that jesus ever existed. And even if he did, there would be no credible evidence that he was divine in origin. And even if there was, his death and descent didn't mean anything because he knew he was god and knew that hell wouldn't be eternal and so didn't sacrifice anything, and even if all that wasn't true: Your god murders babies: Noah's Flood, 10th Plague, and so is not worthy of any worship, but instead of conviction and punishment.
@TheEdge012 Looking? There is no looking. If God is not physical, then he, she or it does not exist. The only things that exist are physical. If God exists he, she or it only exists in the mind of the believer. There is no supernatural and usually no merit or validity in any revealed knowledge. "The gods offer no rewards for intellect. There was never one yet that showed any interest in it" Mark Twain
Thanks for the thumbs up. This is supposed to be a big joke at my expense and others that zealously pursue argumentation as a means of conversion. While apologetics were a big part of my testimony, I do often forget that my decision to serve Christ was not due to a good point being made. It was due to subjective experiences and a personal journey of revelation.
@TheEdge012 If that's the case I'm a little confused. If you acknowledge that your faith is based purely on a subjective experience and can therefore not be founded in logic (i.e. argument and evidence), why do you engage in apologetics at all?
Apologetics is the antithesis of what you've just admitted.
I guess you can say apologetics got the ball rolling but was not ultimately what made the conversion difference. So the point (which I may not have made very well) is that they are useful tools but not quite to the elevated level most Evangelists might like to think. The individual person still has to do the work of having faith and seeking God.
To answer your last question I have definitely taken a step back. I changed my channel to "Living Out Loud" about a year ago and in the description explain that apologetics have their place but ultimately leave the two parties debating leaving with relatively the same views they came in with. But to say apologetics are a complely worthless practice is not true. I believe there is value in being able to answer a critics questions.
And who knows? If the observer of the apologetics gets curious like I did or has a major road block to believing removed...then perhaps that person will be more open to doing their part and going down their own personal/subjective road to finding God.
@TheEdge012 Well see that's the thing, having faith in anything (family, the weather forecast, one's physical capabilities, etc.) requires a reason. Reason precedes faith as lightning precedes thunder and the general consensus (at least that I've gathered from many faithful including yourself) is that faith in the God/Jesus must precede reason in order to truly seek and find God/Jesus.
That admittance just seems to be self-defeating and disingenuous when engaging in apologetics.
I never "admitted" that my faith is without reason and never said faith has to come before reason. I think you have the order exactly correct. However, I do not think reasoning alone gets a person in relationship with Christ. As stated above, it gets them curious/motivated at best. The apologetics I was exposed to removed several roadblocks I had toward belief. It made the final steps much easier...
@TheEdge012 "I never "admitted" that my faith is without reason and never said faith has to come before reason." I never said that you did. Faith coming from reason is a simple fact but your admittance that your faith was not due to anything that can be reasonably justified (i.e. revelation) makes any effort in apologetics post hoc reasoning that you KNOW won't/don't work making those efforts disingenuous and misleading by their very nature.
So true, still glad that it is even harder to prove a negative! Finding God is no easy thing either, with a very open mind we still need to be found by Him first, as it turns out, He has the number of the close-minded too!
LOL. That's my story, too! Only I was 13, at the time. Lying in bed, I looked up at the ceiling and asked, 'which God are you?'
brainouty 1 month ago
So Jim let me get this straight - God is hiding purposefully so you may seek him. And if you happened to be looking in the "wrong" places and die trying, you end up in hell. This God plays strange games.
Creation is Gods word it can nether be duplicated nor forged and the whole world can understand it - Thomas Paine Sorry I will skip the dogma. Nice try though. Love ya man.
ModernDeism 1 month ago
Matthew 7:7 speaks of a seeking/finding process but I don't think its quite like the hide and seek childhood experience that you imply. And for the record I agree that Creation is a good (but not the only) reasonable link to God's existence. As you know I believe He sent His son too which is a rather obvious gesture...not one of hiding.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
they always sell you debunked sh*t.
its like a second hand door to door salesman that's
trying to sale you garage junk like a new state of the art product...
beeto45 1 month ago
You mentiioned "roadblocks" to faith and believing. Sometimes roadblocks are there to avoid driving off cliffs, or into lakes etc... To remove certain road blocks could be akin to driving rational thought into a brick wall.
Benobo1t 1 month ago
Reminds me a bit of The Matrix.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
Sorry I missed this before... nice job. :)
LiftAloft 1 month ago
OK, I'm the guy who thumbed you down. At this point, I'm the only one. Even though I like your personality and the excellent production value, I see you've taken the "I'm speaking for god, as god" stance. When a believer takes does the "Oh he wants to know you" thing, it's a big turn off. Otherwise, not a bad video. Not bad at all.
jamesmaseobrown 1 month ago
I hesitated to do that for the very reason you mentioned. I thought most might overlook it though since it was done in a self deprecating way. Thanks for the feedback.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
I'm back for more, bro, & I promise to lay off the child indoctrination kick.
I appreciate your sincere desire to have others believe as you do based upon the beliefs you hold to be true about the metaphysical nature of reality.
That said, your "argument" consisted of nothing more than declarative statements & bald assertions.
And it's those who have no good argument who stoop to asserting that anyone who doesn't believe as they do is simply not opening their mind up enough.
LetReasonPrevail1 1 month ago
The point of this video was that no argument will solve the issue for you. Arguments serve as good tools for removing doubts or giving good reasons to consider belief. But no argument will make a person take the subjective, personal steps of praying to God, repenting, and accepting Christ.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
Nope, not convincing. I could say the same thing but replace "God" (which isn't the character's name, by the way) with "Flying Spaghetti Monster", and it would be the same thing.
PluralOfEverything 1 month ago
This was not meant to convince. It was meant to make fun of myself for thinking I could in the first place. You ultimately have the responsibility for whether or not you want to seek out the Creator of our universe. I claim to have sought and found. Inviting you to do the same is not a scientific pursuit.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 I have no way of knowing if the universe even was created. It's a scientific question, so the scientific method is the only way to go about the investigation. To make it about your personal desires and decisions is completely absurd.
PluralOfEverything 1 month ago
Amazing!!! I will have to use this, once I figure out how to bring along the piano music, and old reel affects. =) Love the new intro too ;)
KelsoFabulous 1 month ago
@KelsoFabulous Hey Kelso how are you ? the music you can get if you search royalty free music and the effect is with Windows movie maker if you use that. Hope all is well.
ModernDeism 1 month ago
So god's all like, "I made myself perfectly invisible so no evidence could ever be provided. Now, ignore your rationality and the fact that the absolutely undetectable and the nonexistent look exactly the same, accept what one holy book out of hundreds of others says, or I'll torture you forever."
What a douche god is.
LordSlag 1 month ago
I thiink you forgot about the part where He becomes a human and dies for you.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 There is no credible evidence at all that jesus ever existed. And even if he did, there would be no credible evidence that he was divine in origin. And even if there was, his death and descent didn't mean anything because he knew he was god and knew that hell wouldn't be eternal and so didn't sacrifice anything, and even if all that wasn't true: Your god murders babies: Noah's Flood, 10th Plague, and so is not worthy of any worship, but instead of conviction and punishment.
LordSlag 1 month ago
What? Dude! The same old seak and seak some more. I got it the best tee shirt for God. " GOD HIDE AND SEAK ALL TIME WOLD CHAMPION "
2020pfw 1 month ago 2
Is He that good at hiding or are you just not looking?
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 Looking? There is no looking. If God is not physical, then he, she or it does not exist. The only things that exist are physical. If God exists he, she or it only exists in the mind of the believer. There is no supernatural and usually no merit or validity in any revealed knowledge. "The gods offer no rewards for intellect. There was never one yet that showed any interest in it" Mark Twain
2020pfw 1 month ago
Genius.Thank you.
Daniel1RG 1 month ago
:-)
TruthCeeker333 1 month ago
come on! so good
jeremymsurls 1 month ago
Thanks man. Update me on life sometime. Going to be in Dallas again anytime soon?
TheEdge012 1 month ago
Chuckle... sigh.
If meant and taken as a joke; cute and funny.
If meant and taken as serious in any way; cute and sad.
Either way I'll give it a thumbs up.
themanofearth 1 month ago
Thanks for the thumbs up. This is supposed to be a big joke at my expense and others that zealously pursue argumentation as a means of conversion. While apologetics were a big part of my testimony, I do often forget that my decision to serve Christ was not due to a good point being made. It was due to subjective experiences and a personal journey of revelation.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 If that's the case I'm a little confused. If you acknowledge that your faith is based purely on a subjective experience and can therefore not be founded in logic (i.e. argument and evidence), why do you engage in apologetics at all?
Apologetics is the antithesis of what you've just admitted.
themanofearth 1 month ago
I guess you can say apologetics got the ball rolling but was not ultimately what made the conversion difference. So the point (which I may not have made very well) is that they are useful tools but not quite to the elevated level most Evangelists might like to think. The individual person still has to do the work of having faith and seeking God.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
To answer your last question I have definitely taken a step back. I changed my channel to "Living Out Loud" about a year ago and in the description explain that apologetics have their place but ultimately leave the two parties debating leaving with relatively the same views they came in with. But to say apologetics are a complely worthless practice is not true. I believe there is value in being able to answer a critics questions.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
And who knows? If the observer of the apologetics gets curious like I did or has a major road block to believing removed...then perhaps that person will be more open to doing their part and going down their own personal/subjective road to finding God.
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 Well see that's the thing, having faith in anything (family, the weather forecast, one's physical capabilities, etc.) requires a reason. Reason precedes faith as lightning precedes thunder and the general consensus (at least that I've gathered from many faithful including yourself) is that faith in the God/Jesus must precede reason in order to truly seek and find God/Jesus.
That admittance just seems to be self-defeating and disingenuous when engaging in apologetics.
themanofearth 1 month ago 3
I never "admitted" that my faith is without reason and never said faith has to come before reason. I think you have the order exactly correct. However, I do not think reasoning alone gets a person in relationship with Christ. As stated above, it gets them curious/motivated at best. The apologetics I was exposed to removed several roadblocks I had toward belief. It made the final steps much easier...
TheEdge012 1 month ago
@TheEdge012 "I never "admitted" that my faith is without reason and never said faith has to come before reason." I never said that you did. Faith coming from reason is a simple fact but your admittance that your faith was not due to anything that can be reasonably justified (i.e. revelation) makes any effort in apologetics post hoc reasoning that you KNOW won't/don't work making those efforts disingenuous and misleading by their very nature.
themanofearth 1 month ago
So true, still glad that it is even harder to prove a negative! Finding God is no easy thing either, with a very open mind we still need to be found by Him first, as it turns out, He has the number of the close-minded too!
RoelGeurtsen 1 month ago
That put a smile on my face, Jim!
grumpychuck 1 month ago
Glad to know it. I hope you are doing well my friend!
TheEdge012 1 month ago
Pretty clever.
theTRUTHgroup 1 month ago
NAILED IT
squitmaa 1 month ago
that doeth rocketh!!!
themoderateextremist 1 month ago
LOL and Thank you very much brother, I truly needed that. ;)
CrimsonRunnerToJesus 1 month ago
My pleasure!
TheEdge012 1 month ago