The Ontological Argument - Part 1 - William Lane Craig

[StygianDysnomia]

Good stuff. I think I might do a critique on this. 

[Jesrael1986M]

There's something about premise 1 that's fishy. Put it this way:

1. It is possible that there exists a maximally great being (MGB).

2. Definition: MGB = a maximally excellent being (MEB) in all possible worlds.

3. Definition : Its is possible that X = there exists a possible world in which X

4.(Plugging in the definitions) There exists a possible world in which there exists a MEB in all possible worlds.

But this doesn't seem to make sense. Are there possible worlds within possible worlds?

[pntblnguitarists]

Put simpler even than geniusboy1380's answer (which is good!) is that something not maximally great doesn't have to appear in all possible worlds as then it is not necessary.

[oneNonBeliever]

This argument easily goes the other way.

1) It is possible that a maximally great being does NOT exist.

... add "Not" to 2-5.

6) If a maximally great being does NOT exist in the actual world, then a maximally great being does not exist.

as Dr.Craig says at 37:15, "it's either all or nothing"

[geniusboy1380]

@oneNonBeliever That's logically incoherent. The definition of "maximally great" is maximal excellence that exists in ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS. Therefore, by the law of noncontradiction, it is not possible that a maximally great being does not exist. Q.E.D.

[oneNonBeliever]

@geniusboy1380

Sure, that might be the definition of "maximally great," but the problem is that a creative intelligent being that is capable of creating a universe does not have to be "maximally great." There is the possibility that it is just somewhat great, or that no such creator exists. God being "maximally great" is arbitrary. Making existence as part of the definition for greatness in order to prove existence is circular logic.

[oneNonBeliever]

@geniusboy1380

If the definition of maximal greatness is "maximal excellence that exists in all possible worlds," the proof should be

1) see definition

2) see definition

3) see definition

4) see definition

5) see definition

6) see definition

There are no possible conditional arguments being made. The entire argument is contained in the definition and the proof is smoke and mirrors as your response clearly shows. The proof is only true if the definition is.

QED, genius.

[BlazingL2]

I finally understand this argument! Thanks so much.

God bless all of you.

[xchampx]

It's a shame these videos only get 300 views and whatnot. If atheists actually cared these videos would get just as many views as all the others.

[shimeyster]

@xchampx I dont think so. Though Craig is th bullet dodger and very wise man ans philosopher, he lacks the charisma dawkins posses. dawkins would not be able to win a debate against craig, thats why dawkins avoids a public debate with him. but what dawkins does is a bit of philosophy and awful lot of populism, and arogance. in the brittish accent and manners it looks just attractive. dawkins has a gift, craig does not, sadly enough..

[Crownw3]

@shimeyster

"he lacks the charisma dawkins posses"

Interesting. My perspective as a Brit is that Dawkins is an effeminate, cowardly creep with no notable charisma to speak of.

[joehardysr]

@xchampx

Is this your argument, xchampx? That the number of views determines whether atheists care about the content? What about

/watch?v=rq1QjXe3IYQ

or

/watch?v=xQbKXfi5EXQ

What would be your argument here?

[Ledwix]

It's strange to still see this argument circulating the philosophical realm... even when I was a theist, I never used this argument. I'll have to watch the whole thing and see where this goes.

[drcraigvideos]

@Ledwix Well, its been circulating the philosophical classes thanks to Alvin Plantinga.

[AegeanKing]

@Ledwix its strange to see an atheist come onto videos like these. In fact, i see this all the time. Any video about God will have tons of Atheists making comments. Which is very curious. It truly seems as Atheists are dying to believe in God which is why they are so obsessed with following theistic videos. Either that or they are pathetic and enjoy trolling theist videos which makes them sad and pitiful.

[grasuh]

@AegeanKing

Atheists are obviously extremely curious with all the arguments for the existence of God, because deep inside every human heart, there is the desire to know the truth. This is similar to to the objective moral values exist in everyone. We therefore all know what is good, bad ,and "need" to know the truth, who is God.

[Crownw3]

@Ledwix

"even when I was a theist, I never used this argument"

When I was an atheist, it was among the more intriguing ideas which compelled me to reconsider foundational, ontological and epistemological beliefs I had subsumed and taken for granted, and that had been covertly and uniformly instilled to people from early education.

[joehardysr]

Thank you for posting these videos.