So Joseph concealed Polygamy because people wouldn't understand! He practiced it 10 years before he made it a revelation! Aha! He went and told these other man's wives they were to be his wives as well behind their husbands back because they wouldn't understand? LOL. But the Ladies did understand? I wonder why he didn’t apply that same argument to his poly's wives. Hum?
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary...thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS....Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
CHRIST WAS BEGOTTEN BY AN IMMORTAL FATHER IN THE SAME WAY THAT A MORTAL MEN ARE BOGOTTEN MY MORTAL FATHERS. BIBLE: There is nothing in the Bible to indicate a physical relationship between God and Mary. Jesus’ conception is declared to be a miracle. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
LDS Believe God is a resurrected, physical man. He is the literal Father of Jesus by the same manner in which men are CONCEIVED ON EARTH. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 546-547: Christ is the Only Begotten, the Only Begotten Son, the Only Begotten of the Father. (Moses 5:9.) These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood LITERALLY. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son.
Dyoni, Mumbo Jumbo. You say alot and nothing at the same time. Its embarassing to reasonable level headed people and i am not interested, so dont send messages to my inbox.
Nephtu, Ha. I enjoyed reading your posts. In regards to how Lds defend their position, they seem to be delusional or dishonest. The J.o.D. and Ensign are official church publications that shows what is in the heart and mind of Lds. It definitley shows their ever changing beliefs that move to and fro with every wind.
LDS have been constant in their position, only the bad critics insist our position changes when it is them not actually paying attention to what we use as scripture and what we do not. Their definition of 'dishonest and delusional" is, "not submitting to my views of their beliefs and practices". Just as with iNep, changing the definitions to suit their needs shows there own 'changing belief'.
@Dyoni1 You can easily find a photograph from 1911 of the Salt Lake City Temple interior with spittoons for the tobacco chewing brethren. A lot has changed in 100 years.
@Dyoni1 And the penalty signs in the Endowment Ceremony were removed in 1991 along with other parts of the ceremony that made the sisters uneasy. All due to a the results of a questionnaire given to temple going membership in the 1980's.
As we can see iNep is still insisting on extreme absolutes, treating things as the are not. Do you treat popular machanics as an official school text book? INep shows us he is unable to treat such publications as they are, giving them extra importance like they are the standard works. It is the same repetative delusion, as with most of the arguments he makes, to try and redefine beliefs and words to fit his wants rather then what they are used for.
@iNep I gave you answer, multiple times, you ignored them, don't whine when people refuse to give you things after throwing previous thing back in their face.
@Dyoni1 Yeah, the Ensign is only an official publication of the church. It has no bearing on anything and gets most of its facts wrong. People should check with Dyoni about Mormon beliefs, not untrustworthy official church publications like Ensign.
@Dyoni1 * You do realize the ensign is a magazine right? * So, if an article about Mary conceiving Jesus via sexual intercourse appeared in the Ensign, you would dismiss it since it is just "a magazine". I would resign if I belonged to a church that couldn't control what came off it's own presses.
@Khhaaan1 I just want to say it's nice to have someone actually read my comments and attempt to understand them rather then dissect them. The trouble with iNep and co is the deal in extreme absolutes that hold their target to impossible standards and won't treat people like human beings.. Then they try to demand that they decide others beliefs and intentions. It is quite silly.
What Nep tries to pass off is assumption of intention, if someone is mistaken, he tries to pass off that it must be with milisious intent. He has been given plenty of examples from bible and prophets showing the falability of prophets and the falws of humanity, the proof he seeks, but is never good enough, NOTHING will be good enough except a full submission to his own flawed and biased set of views.
@Dyoni1 I have asked you to admit to something--ANYTHING--the church did was wrong. You said that you have done that, but now you give a run-around answer. This is how you answer every post.
@Dyoni1 Oh, so now you're Bill Clinton. Define "is." The truth is that your arguments make no sense and you change your mind constantly. You mentally flip lop like a flap jack on acid.
@Dyoni1 I have asked you to admit to something--ANYTHING--the church did was wrong. You said that you have done that, but now you give a run-around answer. This is how you answer every post.
The fact here is that even when given what they ask for, Bad critics will not accept it. You give China the set of practice and beliefs that LDS adhere to, he ignores it. You tell him what is doctrine and what is not, he ignores this. You give him sources explaining and clarifying meaning of talks and interviews, he ignores it. He accuses others are being blind, but who is the one cutting out everything he is given?
@Dyoni1 You keep using the same flawed arguments and poor responses. When asked outright simple questions, you refuse to give an answer. Your stupidity is like a breath of stinky air that makes the truth smell even sweeter.
@Nepthu You should feel embarrased for being in the same side of chinaculiacan. She is ill. No one here needs more help than her. She can´t help nobody.
The distinct difference we see here is that China applies talks to what he can use in a negative aspect rather then bothering to find out what the speaker is referring to. He makes an assumption and tries to enforce it. The only conflicts he makes really are those in his own mind rather then anything true, as he refuses to apply scripture in the way LDS practice it. It parallels the holy crusades where people were put to death for not conforming to the view of the Bible made by those in power.
So all we really have is China recycling his flawed arguements, insisting he can impose his own mindset on others, desperatly trying to drown anyone else out with a tone of fluff he has failed to do anything but fling out without understanding or comprehension. LDS have stated their beliefs clearly time and again, however, all China can do is look for something to distort, failing to realize that the sermons he tries to dissect have been clarified on by their speackers.
China's hate is so deep for Mormons, that he WANTS us to believe in things that we don't actually believe.
Why?
Simple. China WANTS to have more reasons to mock and attack us. This is the way that Anti-Mormons try to make themselves feel better, due to their insecurity in their own faith.
@Khhaaan1 Then there are those like iNep who try to convince others that putting something in context is refusing to acknowledge something. But China isn't an anti-mormon, he has shown no comprehension of LDS beliefs and practices, thus, has no real insite into LDS belief, thus no threat. He is simply a bad critic trying to grab some attention where he can.
@Dyoni1 Until you can decide what the word "wrong" means, you're not worth talking to. You've already shown that you can't think clearly by ignoring evidence. You're the biggest fool I've ever seen on youtube and a disgrace to the LDS people.
@Khhaaan1 Wrong again dude! There is no hate! Mocking? Probably! Why? Because Your Mormon Leaders did more than mocking, the said Christians had a part of the devil and his work with his angels! You understand now? U are here crying like a little girl about how you said I have deep hate for Mormons, read your history and your leaders words before you point you fingers at other, what I do it doesn't make me feel good about myself! Nor do I have any insecurity about my faith, my faith is in Jesus
If one actually examines to scriptures, they can easily see there are no contradictions that the exitable bad critics assume in their literal, read only half, exclude context manner. They misinterpert, fale to recognize what is being said, ignore the situations and show us that cannot tell what events are happening. For instance his Alma referance shows us that China has not realised that Alma is trying to relate his beliefs to someone unfamiliar with them, and finding common termanolgy.
As we can see, China ignores what anyone says and has to try and put words in others mouths to throw off the fact that he is wrong on so many levels. Khhaaan1 has given him facts and truth about LDS policy, practice, belief, and such, and all he can do is make another series of empty accusations. All he has is his distortions, excluding all context, including explainations and clarifications by the issuers of the sermons he tries to distort. All he gives us is his own distorted view, not truth.
Khhaan1, incapable of accepting the idea of infallible human beings?! These men were not looked up at, as regular men but as men that spoke for God, on his behalf and their "mistakes" were not little and insignificant.
@TheSoulamore "The phrase "Ye are Gods" is We belong to God."
So, are you saying that in the original Hebrew / Greek of those two scriptures it is an apostrophe denoting posessive instead of plural? LOL!
That is a new one. Look at the context. Look at the original language (you know that the Bible was translated from another language into English right?). Clearly the original Hebrew shows a plural noun "gods" not "God's" (possessive).
Since mortal beings are the spirit children of Heavenly Parents, the ultimate possibility is for some of them to become exalted to Godhood." (The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.104) Brigham Young declared: "Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.245).
So, you don't believe that we are sons and daughters of God? You don't believe that we are God's children?
Paul agrees in the New Testament that we are his "offspring". (Acts 17:28) The original Greek word here could not be clearer. Not to mention all of the other teachings found elsewhere in the Biblical text that confirm this.
Now, before you mock... We don't claim to know how spirits are conceived. I assume spirit is made by a spiritual method.
@Khhaaan1 1st I'm having problems wth computer, n 2 I can only post 2 posts! (Acts 17:28) In him we live and move and are. This is a quote from the Cretan poet Epimenides, typical Mormon, never read before and after the verse. Acts 17:27. To seek God. God's purpose for man to reveal Himself as Creator, ruler and controller of the world. Men cannot be excused from not knowing about God because He has revealed Himself in human consciousness and the physical world (look at Romans 1:19 20, 2:15)
@Khhaaan1 Acts 17:29. God's lineage. A quote from Aratus, who came from the region of Cilicia, where Paul also was a native. Like gold or silver. If man is the offspring of God, here referred to (creation) as suggested by the Greek poet, it is foolish to think that God is not only a man-made idol. This reasoning is evident how absurd idolatry (Isaiah 44: 9-20) Acts 17:28 here the whole issue is about idolatry.
@Khhaaan1 John 1:12. He posttest to become children of God. (Powers) Those who received Jesus, The Word, receive the full right and authority to claim the exalted title "Children of God" Verse 13. The divine side of salvation does not depend ultimately on the will of man to produce salvation, but of the will of God. (Look at John 36-8, Titus 3:5 1 John 2:29)
Mat 24:13 False Teachers and False Prophets? Oh Yes Joseph Smith right? james 2:14 Oh yes that is why Joseph Smtth Liad about having only 1 wife? and said he preached the Gospel? oh yes! Matt 7:21, Oh yes Mormon Leaders? Oh yes BY, JS, GB, (they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; there is some substance to what they say) oh Yes! John 14:24? Oh Yes! Let's see, Joseph didn't believe in Gods words, that's why he wrote another saying God's word was not true! Oh Yes.
@Chinaculiacan Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
HE WASN'T BEGOTTEN BY THE HOLY GHOST! Look at the text man! The Holy Spirit was present in order to allow the conception to occur, yes, but the "Most High" is the actual Father (Luke 1:35).
Show me in the Bible where it says that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Holy Spirit, not God the Father.
Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
"the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:20
Also, Dyoni has insisted that LDS don't use the JOD, but you're quoting it???
@Nepthu Wrong again, what I said is, the journal of discourses is not scripture. LDS use such things only as suplmental material for study, not as rules or laws as you do. They hold opinions of prophets in their time, but is not considered completely accurate due to the recording methods of the time.
@Dyoni1 What you have proven time and time again is that you play by another set of rules. It's ok for a Mormon to quote the JOD, but if a critic quotes it, they are out of line.
In other words, you're a hypocrite who bashes people for doing exactly what you do. Dyoni, I can't recall the amount of times you've said something and then failed to back it up. You're a joke and obviously mentally ill or retarded.
@Nepthu Dyoni has insisted that LDS don't use the JOD, but you're quoting it??"
What? Someone else quoted it. I was commenting on the quote that someone posted here.
Matthew 1:20 - As I said, the Holy Spirit was present, and made the conception possible, but it does not say that the Holy Spirit is the Father. Let’s look at the New Testament.
Do you really want to argue that God the Father...is NOT the Father of Jesus?
Does Jesus pray to the Holy Spirit or to his Father?
@Khhaaan1 Could you imagine an article published by a General Authority in the Ensign today with a new doctrine of Mary conceiving Jesus by sexual intercourse? No? That's exactly what occurred in 1854 in what was the equivalent of the Ensign at the time, in a periodical called The Millennial Star.
@Khhaaan1 Nice change of subject. Have you acknowledged what you were initially asking? Brigham Young said Jesus was NOT born of the Holy Spirit. You then DARED China to prove it wrong. I showed you in Matt 1:20.
The question is: Who's right The Bible or Brigham Young??? Answer the question.
You already acknowledge Young can be wrong; you didn't realize he was wrong in this case.
Why is it that when I clearly show a Mormon they're wrong,they change the subject???
Oh I forgot the "S" for Satanic, sice you Mormons recite luceferian Oaths, Doris name is not going to be anymore, she is going to have a secret name of "Mary" her husband "Joseph is going to resurrect her! Mary! Be carefull your husband doesn't resurrect many other Mary Mormons, wait? I don't think your husband will mind resurrecting many! this way he'll have many celestial wives! Oh Doris, you are going to be a Sister wife! Wua wua wua!!
"How does it feel being a b**h and be licking the BOM"
THIS IS CHINA, AND YOU SEE THIS PEOPLE? YES I DID SAY THIS TO DORIS, I DON'T DENY IT. I HAVE SAID THIS SO MANY TIMES, AND YET SHE KEEPS SAYING I WAS DENYING, I'M NOT DENYING, THIS IS FOR YOU PUBLIC.
But she thinks about herself "I contempt for the truth. Not talk down on anyone" And pretend to speak about delusion.
No actually is 1 (800) Doris D= Dunda, O= orgullosa. R= Refea. I= Idiota. A= Acomplejada. This is something so that you deliver to your Mormons sister and brother. I told you to stop sending me messages.
" Go back to your mami and tell her you are being a Go back to your mami and tell her you are being a good brown nose to the lds faith. You really make me laugh. :) Im out of your league? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! dude hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha¬, wait? cough, let me catch my breath! hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah "
Yeah! Revelation from Joseph? And I'm the Green Lantern! Like Gordon said, they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; He was right, and so every other Mormon out there.
Book of Moses “And I, God, called the dry land Earth. Book of Abraham “And the Gods pronounced the dry land, earth.
Book of Moses “And I, God, made the beasts of the earth after their kind. Book of Abraham “And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind.
Book of Moses “And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden." (Moses 2:1, 3, 10, 25; 3:8) Book of Abraham “And the Gods planted a garden in Eden." (Abraham 3:15; 4:3, 10, 25; 5:8)
You may not know this, but the original word in the Bible for God is "Elohim", which is a plural noun. The singular noun is "Eloah" , which usually was NOT used in the Bible. The verb often used with "Gods" in the original Hebrew was singular, indicating that the "Gods" acted as one.
This is why we see in the Bible, "Let US create man in OUR image..." LDS doctrine is consistent with the original Hebrew. Look it up.
the Book of Moses. Both books are supposed to contain a direct revelation concerning the creation of the world. While the Book of Moses states that "I, God" created the heavens and the earth, the Book of Abraham states that "they (the Gods)" created them. Take a look
You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves. No man can learn you more than what I have told you (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, pp. 613-14).] This is the best way to illustrate Joseph Smith's change of mind concerning the Godhead is to compare the Book of Moses with the Book of Abraham. Both of these books are printed in the Pearl of Great Price, one of the four standard works of the Mormon Church. The Book of Abraham was supposed to have been given some years after
@Chinaculiacan "You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves."
Christ in the New Testament said, "ye are gods." (John 10:34) He was quoting Psalm 82:6 of the Old Testament which states "Ye are gods, and all of you children of the Most High."
Jesus was fine with calling humans by the title "gods". Take it up with Him.
By the year 1844 Joseph Smith had completely disregarded the teachings of the Book of Mormon, for he declared that God was just an exalted man and that men could become Gods. He stated as follows: First, God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man like unto one of yourselves that is the great secret. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have I’m gained that God was God from all eternity. God himself; the Father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ
@Chinaculiacan "God himself; the Father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ."
Again, Joseph was reading what the Bible says. John 5:19-20 "The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:"
Christ was doing what the Father had done previously.
Get the freak out of my inbox Khhaaan1, what was in Mary was Holy and is Holy, G-d was not a man of flesh and bones who had sperms for Mary to conceived, as your false prophet suggested! How dare you blindly! Get the freak out of my inbox.
@Chinaculiacan "G-d was not a man of flesh and bones..."
Do you deny that Jesus was God... or do you deny that Jesus was flesh and bones?
Either way, the Bible is not in your favor.
"who had sperms for Mary"
I don't think anybody mentioned sperms. Who knows? We do know that Mary didn't impregnate herself. Somebody impregnated her, the Bible suggests that Christ was Begotten of the Father. Do you disagree?
@Khhaaan1 Jesus is God! So you are saying the Holy spirit had sperm to inpregnate Mary? Now read this and understand something. LDS try to support their claims of a "flesh and bones" God by saying He created man in His own image (Gen. 1:26-27). But, God was not created in the image of man! Just because man has a body of flesh, blood, and bones does not mean that God is made of the same material. The statue, or image, of Abraham Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial is (continue)
@Khhaaan1 19 feet tall and made of white Georgia marble, but was President Lincoln 19 feet tall with a body of white marble? Obviously, "image" does not mean "made of the same material" or "made the same size." Furthermore, Joseph Fielding Smith said, "We know that Jesus our Savior was a Spirit when this great work (creation) was done. He did all these mighty works before he tabernacled in the flesh" (D. of S., Vol. I, p. 75). That statement shows that man could not be created in the (continue)
(Gordon B H ) AS a church we have critics, many of them, they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; there is some substance to what they say. Our faith and knowledge, is NOT based on ancient tradition, our faith our knowledge comes from the witness of the prophet in this dispensation. I say this man was a bad critic to the core about (THE TRADITIONAL CHRIST OF CHRISTIANITY) Hum? what is wrong with this pic? I know, this man also has mental illiness. N is blind. The END.
Funny how some Mormons forget their history and play self-righteous when they mention arguments against race, when they themselves know their history against black people and how their leaders themselves jumped into ugly conclusions and perverseness! (Joseph Smith) Had I anything to do with the Negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species.”False Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. January 2, 1845, History of the Church, v. 5, pp. 21-218.
As we can see, all bad critics are here to do is insult and mock. In the end, all they really do is show a window into their own minds, where they jump to conclusions and see perversness and evil in everyone else but themselves. Strangely this is the same trend of arguements against Americans, African Americans, Irish, Asians, Jews, Homosexuals, etc... Guess their running out of people to unjustly persecute. It will be nice when people realize their mistake and people and live in peace.
What is worse than a man telling gullible followers that God commanded them to practise polygamy?, Its the half-wit Lds leader that created the lie, that it was safely guarded for those with the highest standards...what?! Now its the most blessed that get the priviledge?! If i didnt laugh i would cry and you want to say its not about sex. Ha. I guess that reward will have to wait until the after life.
In the end, it becomes quite boring, and no one should really be intimidated. Really all the bad critic is seeking is negative attention and self importance, and their claims are merely words. True, some may buy into them due to those who are good at making convincing sounding arguements, but no amont of prettying up deceptions will make them true, and study of the subject reveals the distortion quite easily.
Bad critics will argue that refusing to play their game of 'ring around the flawed logic' is 'proof' that they are right, this of course is merely a sad delusion of self importance. Those here have shown consistantly that there is no point in trying to correct their mistakes, as they are not receptive to anything that may force them to consider themselves as wrong, or even mistaken. It has been shown in the repetative insistance that 'LDS believe this and that' without the view that LDS hold.
Anybody who wants to see how much lying the church did--even to its own members--about polygamy can see all the info at Mormonthink (dot) com.
Don't take my word for it. The church ONLY admitted Joseph Smith's sordid past after the advent of the Internet where the info became too hard to hide. If not for the Internet, they would still deny it.
@Nepthu All the information that we have (including the information on the internet) comes from documents that the LDS church has provided. Yet you claim the Church hid it?
If the Church had kept all hidden, nobody WOULD know about it. So, you are wrong.
@Khhaaan1 The church admits things after they've been FORCED to--kicking and screaming. Joseph Smith HID his polygamy. If you don't know that, you don't know your own history very well.
@Khhaaan1 Bad critics try to protray Prophets as somehow being more perfect then others. We have seen in the bible the numerous mistakes that prophets make, yet bad critics insist that modern prophets must somehow be perfect, even when LDS do not expect them to be so. The fact is that prophets are human, just like you or me, and no amount of distoring their words or our beliefs will change the reality of things.
I would have too! "Uh, yeah. Can I have some more persecution please. Yeah, thanks."
Guess what? Mary (the mother of Jesus Christ) and Joseph HID the fact that she got pregnant before getting married. Why? Because people just wouldn't understand.
@Khhaaan1 Oh we see now! So Joe hide polygamy because what? People would not understand? Oh that's nice for Joe and you covering this wacko! So he forgot to apply 1 Timothy 3:2 ah? And so that's why he feared? Hhahaha What a joke from you dude! Thank you for making us laugh, or girl. Take a look at what else your prophet forgot to apply to be a true prophet, read these verses and learn something. Verse 10, 4:16; 5:7; Psalms 101:6; Philippians 3:17' 2 Thesalonians 3:9 Acts 13:7 1 Peter 5:3
You cannot honestly say you would accept anything LDS members gave you unless it was something you could twist into self incrimination, you assume the worst of people and insist we have to prove innocence and default to guilt. Your logic is laughable, and nobody has to play your silly game of mudslinging, because you have shown your lack of character and lack of interest time and again. In short, your simply a one pony show that has died and you continue to beat.
@Dyoni1 My logic is laughable only if you call doing your own research laughable. It's funny that you equate mudslinging with doing research.
From the beginning, you have defended every disgusting thing your church has done. You see it through rose-colored glasses. Next you'll say the Mountain Meadows Massacre is fake.
I really don't blame you because I think you have a mental illness. I'm sorry that your eyes are shut to objective thinking, but it's not my job to accept your delusion.
@Nepthu You have shown yourself incapable of stating LDS views as LDS view them, have ignored content and context, held everyone guilty of the actions of a few, refused to apply credit where it is due, and show no interest in supporting anything but your own bias. Claiming you have done research is just another in a long line of empty claims. You may want to have a psychitrist check you out, since ou have a habit of trying to impose your own flaws on others.
@Nepthu "Next you'll say the Mountain Meadows Massacre is fake."
You don't GET IT. Mormons know that there are things Mormons have said and done in the past that were wrong.
Nobody is disputing the fact that mistakes were made. You simply seem incapable of accepting the idea of fallible human beings. I suggest you take a step back and read Matt 7:1-6
@Khhaaan1 You clearly don't get it. I was speaking about Dyoni--who has never acknowledged anything bad--EVER. You clearly heard a snippet of the conversation and decided to insert your two cents. You say "anti-Mormons dig up pieces here and there" but that's exactly what you did in your accusation here.
@Nepthu Liar, I have clearly agreed that bad things have happened, but I have offered as usual, the context of LDS belief concerning fallability. As usual, tring to impose your own mindset on others.
@Dyoni1 Liar, you have yet to admit one thing the LDS did was wrong. Please repeat the list of mistakes the church has made so we can all see what you have "admitted" to being wrong.
@Nepthu You use 'wrong' as an absolute, so no I have not admitted to YOUR definition of 'wrong' I have admitted that prohets can be mistaken, I have admitted that individuals can do bad things, I have admitted that prophets can have mistaken opinions. What I do not admit to is your definition: "Not conforming to my own set of rules and therefore disproving any and all." I admit to the humanity of prophets, not the hubris of you.
@Dyoni1 THERE YOU GO AGAIN!!!!! Dyoni, I merely ask you for proof and examples, and EVERY TIME, you answer me my saying, "I don't you an explanation. You're just wrong." or some similar statement.
Not two minutes ago, you said you did admit the church did some wrongdoings, and now you're saying you won't answer.
@Nepthu "I was speaking about Dyoni--who has never acknowledged anything bad--EVER."
What Dyoni has attempted to push against is how Anti-Mormons pretend that our leaders are worse than they really were.
Regular Mormons who read the teachings of Mormon prophets have a better image of Brigham Young, for example, than those who go online and read only the "bad stuff" he said taken out of context.
Mormons try to embrace what BY taught that was true, and reject what was false. So?
@Khhaaan1 The truth is that you are very selective about what your Prophets teach. On one hand, you say they speak the truth, on the other hand you censor them. This is the perfect example of double-think.
It's also SUPREME IRONY that if anyone besides a Mormon quotes Brigham Young, they must have it all wrong. You know there are many Mormon groups such as the FLDS who use your selective understanding of Young to show the LDS are apostates.
@Nepthu "you are very selective about what your Prophets teach."
No. YOU are selective.
I agree with 99.9% of everything the LDS prophets have ever taught. It is the Anti-Mormons who go back and select very specific quotes from extensive records over a 180 year history, often taken out of context. Sure, when you put the mistakes together, it seems like a lot ... until you consider the 99.9% they did right. Judge others at your own risk.
@Khhhaan1 Actually I'm taking ALL of what Brigham Young said into consideration. YOU are attempting to cut out the bad parts, which is true irony since the Church always drills into your heads that the Prophet never leads people astray.
@Khhaaan1 You quoted something from Young calling it true. You then dared China to show a biblical contradiction. "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
"the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:20
@iNep I don't really need to do any refuting, you've already refuted yourself with cognitive dissonance arguments, ignorance of LDS practice and views, double standards, and imposition of your own standards on others, not to mention trying to control others doctrine, beliefs and even genders in the same sad attempt to drown out anyone opposing your flawed logic.
As we can see, the mistakes made by bad critics are constant and unchanging, showing us the stubborn pride that so many cling to when they become obsessed. they cannot learn or grow, as doing so would require letting go of false notions and admitting to having made mistakes in their logic. They seem to believe they are incapable of error, and try to impose this flaw on others, when in reality, the ones guilty of such accusations are themselves.
@Dyoni1 Again, we see the same mistake by Dionyi who, instead of addressing problems, simply dismisses them with the same blanket excuse. Talk about a broken record. *yawn*
@Dyoni1 You haven't refuted a single argument in this post, just repeated your "bad critics" speech over and over. The fact that you THINK you come across as halfway intelligent shows the biggest cognitive dissonance of anyone here.
First you insists we only quote LDS scriptures-ignoring history altogether--and then you have the audacity to quote Bruce McConkie. I love how you're so full of yourself. It's quite amusing.
@ soul, "I have never seen" lying again I see. The fact is you've seen it plenty of times, but apply the usual, "I reject anything that does not support me" stand bad critics live to take. It has been stated by church leaders, church representatives, common members, again and again, but as usual, the only excuse bad critics have for ignoring this is cognitive dissonance.
@Dyoni1 *Yawn* The irony is that you're the one exhibiting cognitive dissonance. Anything else you got or just the same bull you've been repeating for months?
Doris, I have never seen anyone disprove that Lds teachings are...God had sex with mary. Denying it, is not proof. For those that missed it, please disprove this again Doris.
Again, not China's use of wizards, spirits in which he tries to dictate who is classified as what. Again, the same mistakes again and again without fail or variation.
knowledge foolish; that confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers. I say Joseph was in big trouble when he faced God the almighty. I wonder what God might’ve said! “Apart from me I never knew you” But hey! You Mormons believe is was a true prophet, and his followers like BY among others! They were fools to the core when they dared gave opinions about the Holy One.
Isa. 19:3 I will destroy counsel thereof and they shall seek idols, charmers, familiar spirits and wizards. Isa. 29:1-4 Woe to Ariel...one that hath a familiar spirit. Isa. 44:24-26 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their
Lev. 19:31 Regard not...familiar spirits neither seek after wizards.
Lev. 19:26 Neither use enchantment nor observe times.
Lev. 20:6 Familiar spirits, wizards...I will set my face against.
Lev. 20:27 Hath familiar spirit or wizard - put to death.
Deut. 18:10-12 Divination, enchanter, witch, charmer, consulter with familiar spirits, wizard, necromancer - abomination to Lord. Isa. 8:19 When they say - seek familiar spirits or wizards that peep - should not a people seek their God?
speech was to be low out of the dust, and their voice was to be as of one that had a familiar spirit. (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.3, p.213) However, Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prediction of God’s punishment on Jerusalem. The Bible always condemns familiar spirits. If the Book of Mormon is supposed to be the word of God why would God associate it with demonic forces? The following verses demonstrate God’s condemnation of familiar spirits.
Witch hunt? Mormonism claims that Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prophecy of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Past president Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: ISAIAH PROPHESIES OF BOOK OF MORMON. One of the most important predictions regarding the Book of Mormon is that found in the 29th chapter of Isaiah. The prophet here speaks of a people who should be like Ariel, the city where David dwelt. They should have heaviness and sorrow and should be brought down to speak out of the ground, and their
China has shown the usual mistakes of bad critics, putting his own bias before truth, logic and reason, hoping to shock people with twisted and distorted claims, quote mining, and appeals to negative emotions. He is even so convinced as to think he can decide what a person's gender is (I'm a man by the way), which is hilarious. As you can see, this foolish and childish behavior shows us that it is not a good idea to follow someone blindly, but to do self study for our own answers.
As we can see, when faced with their flaws, bad critics often degrade into simple mockery and false delemas, convinced of their own infallability.
"As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. "Joseph, son of David," the angel said, "do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit."
As usual, bad critic indavertently condemn Christ. As before, a religions doctrine is their own to declare, not the critic.
@Dyoni1 Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51). This statement is in conflict with both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. In Matthew 1:18 and 20 we read: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
@Dyoni1 for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." The Book of Mormon agrees with the Bible on this point, for in Alma 7:10 we read: "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, ... she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God." In spite of these plain statements, Joseph Fielding Smith denied that the Book of Mormon and the Bible teach that Christ was begotten
@Dyoni1 by the Holy Ghost: "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 19). (to thnk he can decide what person's gender) I'M A GIRL BY THE WAY. Blindy? oh yes! tell what are you seeing right now? Oh i see, you can't see!
@Chinaculiacan LDS theology is only based on the following:
The Bible
The Book of Mormon
The D&C
The PofGP
And General Conferance talks that eventually get sustained as revelation to be binding on the saints (i.e. The Proclamation to the World)
These are called the STANDARD WORKS - and if it doesn't come from any of these..then it is just speculation and "theory" - not doctrine nor binding on the saints.
Maybe you should start getting ready to be resurrected by your husband with that secret given name! Wait? Isn’t Jesus the resurrection? And only he has the power to resurrect? Oh yes! But Joe and his leaders forgot that. Hey dyoni, have you asked for a passport to be where Christ and God are?
@China HAHA! Still insinting you can decide one's gender. Seriously, the more you attempt to control others, their physical being, beliefs, and everything else, the more you testify your arrogance and ignorance. Here's a little hint, work on actually learning LDS beliefs before trying to apply them and don't assume. It is doubtful you will do this, since you apparently think you are infallable, but at least you can't tell Jesus you weren't advised when you have to explain your behavior to him.
@Dyoni1 I have no problem explaning him, you in the other hand have lots to answer for putting your trust into men who said he practiced polygamy and had 3 wives before he died, or as of why the leaders you trust said God had sex with Mary.
@China Biblical prophets have practiced polygamy. I guess you must be saying we can't trust them either. Seriously, more double standards won't improve your already hopeless state.
@Dyoni1 Let's see now! The prophet did practiced polygamy! But wait? did one of them ever told other men's wives they were to be his and said (God told me to tell you because he wants me to do it)? Hum? Not.
@Dyoni1 Wait? HaHa! Arragance! You should know a lot about that since you are followng your leaders foot steps! Apply LDS beliefs? Good Lord no Thank you, I don't want the savior to find me in his second coming reciting Luceferian Oaths. Nooooooo Thank you.
@China "Apply LDS beliefs?" again, thank you for admiting that you don't apply LDS beliefs or practices to your arguement, it shows everyone that you are not honest in your accusations. I think you have far more to fear from Christ asking you about bearing false witness then you do about supposed 'lutharian oaths'.
@Dyoni1 Infallible? No way! It is only Through Jesus Blood and his mercy that I have eternal life, neither through a husband nor through a passport of a man who took other men’s wives and their little girls and said God told him to do this. Get the point blindly?
Yawn, again, you being unable to apply context of times, trying to dictate what is acceptable, trying to control belief, making assumptions of guilt and all the usual mistakes bad critics make. Seriously your attempts are old and sad and contridictory, and we have seen enough cognitive dissonace arguements to know you'll never be truthful about the evidense, and will never accept anything given to you. Pearls before swine lad, maybe you should work on removing that beam first.
@Dyoni1 I'm not trying to control anything, or to dictate, your leaders did that very well. Do you really think i care what you say? I am given you the Pearls, but there will other people who will learn of your church falseness and how you guys place the savior where you guys feel fits, you should work in knowing about if your leaders were true prophets and why they made stupid assumptions about the Lord Jesus Christ. Bow before Royalty you insolent fraud.
@China Your translation of pearls is "Anything I say' sorry, but you can't pass polished crap for pearls. I know you don't care about what anyone else says, you've made that very clear, nice to hear you admit your flaw. No one should bow to people like you, you are not God, nor anything resembling royalty.
I know mormons are not. For their entire belief is founded on the bases of group belief. That is why they group or stay together. If you read the real Bible. Jesus himself sent out His own follwers to preach. He even said to preach His words through out the land. To forgive and heal. NOT JOIN! That is why mormons group for when separated, time will desolve their mormon belief. Jesus said, There are hundreds of prophecy about the coming of Christ. Where the one on Joe Smith or Mohammed?
@tock101 "Jesus himself sent out His own follwers to preach. He even said to preach His words through out the land" Obvioulsy you've forgotten about missionaries and the numerous volunteer effoerts that LDS perform world wide. Can you explain to me why these do not count as going forth into the world to peech and heal? You are also assuming, there are plenty of people, who when seperated from their ward, continue their beliefs reguadless of that seperation, myself included.
@Dyoni1 Your brother's go and preach about a man who had a vision, (which are 11 of them) a man who lied to his followers and told them their wives were to be his because God had told him to. Do you see the differences? Jesus said go and preached the Gospel, Gospel means good news, you go and preach about a church and a false prophet, whose practices of witchcraft you don't mention to people, see the differences? Or telling the people he unearth his brother 2 practice witchcraft with his remains
Dyoni, Another duh moment...then what the hell were your Prophets purpose then? At the time these Prophets spoke,the members hung on every word and were suppose to live by every word! You are a very disobedient mormon and u are lucky Brigham young is not alive.
@Draigar2013 Let me put it this way. Let's say you wrote a goodbye letter to someone you knew that died and you slipped the letter into the coffin at the funeral. 1400 years later, the English language has bean forgotten. Somebody finds your letter, and "translates" your letter it into a "holy" book of scripture. All you said was "goodbye and have a nice afterlife", and this fake "holy" man said you were talking about secrets of the universe.
@Draigar2013 It doesn't really. Unfortunatly it is the way of bad critics to push their ideas as correct reguardless of the fact that they cannot prove anything. For instance, Soul is still insisting the purpose of a prophet is to be a perfect man who has no other human quality and is only meant to be on earth to act as a radio antena for God in which every word is scripture. This nonsense is of course is wrong, but because he can't accept anything otherwise, he applies it to every accusation.
Then there are those like eek who come up with scenereos such as 'good bye letters' and treats them as fact without proof. Any person in their right mind can tell you you don't start at a conclusion and work backwards to make it fact, but as usual, it is an assumption of guilt and demanding that you have to proove someones innocence. It is very disheartening to think there are people who still think lynch mobs are justified.
As you can see, Bad critics have a hypocritical and unreasonable sense of self importance, trying to dictate that they somehow get to decide what others believe, as well as what is acceptable 'evidence'. All this boils down to is again the arrogance and self righteousness in witch they believe they can control the basis of morality and truth. We have all seen enough to know that the game they play is by their own set of stacked rules, one which no one is interested in playing.
@soul Riiight because 'I have a dream' was never truth. History is filled with those who make speeches voicing the truth, it seems you just don't like it when you are the one on the side doing the persecuting.
Dyoni, excuse me! People that speak truth, dont have to make long repetitve snarling speeches about their opinion and i find you insult constantly,. on the defense always. Nice touch on slipping in the appeal to the heart(speaking of the savior). I rarely see that from you. Keep it real.
@eek you must be confused for if you consider my comments to be a diatribe, what would that make those of you and your fellow critics, that are far better characterized as 'abusive' then anything I have put out. Seriously, you should think before making such hypocritical comments.
I find great comfort in the many things the lord has of offer us. One I find most pleasing is the music composed. If one has ever heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, you know what I mean. One of my favorites is 'The Lord is My Shepard', a very peaceful hymn.
Simply put, bad critics show arrogance in their attempts to control others beliefs, never truely showing us truth as their bias blinds them to reason and logic, reling on emotion as a substitute and hoping that by raising discord and spite, they can push people to agree. Sadly this is a ploy warned of in the bible, and as with many of it's precious lessons, it falls by the wayside for such critics.
As we can see China quotes about 'wizards' and such. The basic ploy here is that the critic insists that he can decide who is a 'wizard' and who is not. Of course this translates into 'whomever I decide' arguements that are rather quite unreasonable. This again shows us the attempt to control others beliefs, which of couse is nonsense, and the belief is for the believer to declare, no the critic.
As you can see, China never once quotes from the standard works that LDS use, instead, as always, resorting to trying to find a talk and insisting that it be treated as a bible unto itself. Note the adherance to the jouranal of discourses, which was a magazine in it's time and not known for great recording metho
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So Joseph concealed Polygamy because people wouldn't understand! He practiced it 10 years before he made it a revelation! Aha! He went and told these other man's wives they were to be his wives as well behind their husbands back because they wouldn't understand? LOL. But the Ladies did understand? I wonder why he didn’t apply that same argument to his poly's wives. Hum?
Chinaculiacan 34 minutes ago
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Luke 1:30-35
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary...thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS....Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Chinaculiacan 1 hour ago
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CHRIST WAS BEGOTTEN BY AN IMMORTAL FATHER IN THE SAME WAY THAT A MORTAL MEN ARE BOGOTTEN MY MORTAL FATHERS. BIBLE: There is nothing in the Bible to indicate a physical relationship between God and Mary. Jesus’ conception is declared to be a miracle. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Chinaculiacan 1 hour ago
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LDS Believe God is a resurrected, physical man. He is the literal Father of Jesus by the same manner in which men are CONCEIVED ON EARTH. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 546-547: Christ is the Only Begotten, the Only Begotten Son, the Only Begotten of the Father. (Moses 5:9.) These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood LITERALLY. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son.
Chinaculiacan 1 hour ago
Dyoni, Mumbo Jumbo. You say alot and nothing at the same time. Its embarassing to reasonable level headed people and i am not interested, so dont send messages to my inbox.
TheSoulamore 2 hours ago
Joseph Smith and his golden plates story has to be one of the most farfetched fairytales I've ever heard. He truly was a false prophet.
pmoyer50 2 hours ago
Nephtu, Ha. I enjoyed reading your posts. In regards to how Lds defend their position, they seem to be delusional or dishonest. The J.o.D. and Ensign are official church publications that shows what is in the heart and mind of Lds. It definitley shows their ever changing beliefs that move to and fro with every wind.
TheSoulamore 3 hours ago
LDS have been constant in their position, only the bad critics insist our position changes when it is them not actually paying attention to what we use as scripture and what we do not. Their definition of 'dishonest and delusional" is, "not submitting to my views of their beliefs and practices". Just as with iNep, changing the definitions to suit their needs shows there own 'changing belief'.
Dyoni1 3 hours ago
@Dyoni1 You can easily find a photograph from 1911 of the Salt Lake City Temple interior with spittoons for the tobacco chewing brethren. A lot has changed in 100 years.
eeikman 2 hours ago
@Dyoni1 And the penalty signs in the Endowment Ceremony were removed in 1991 along with other parts of the ceremony that made the sisters uneasy. All due to a the results of a questionnaire given to temple going membership in the 1980's.
eeikman 2 hours ago
As we can see iNep is still insisting on extreme absolutes, treating things as the are not. Do you treat popular machanics as an official school text book? INep shows us he is unable to treat such publications as they are, giving them extra importance like they are the standard works. It is the same repetative delusion, as with most of the arguments he makes, to try and redefine beliefs and words to fit his wants rather then what they are used for.
Dyoni1 9 hours ago
@iNep I gave you answer, multiple times, you ignored them, don't whine when people refuse to give you things after throwing previous thing back in their face.
Dyoni1 9 hours ago
You do realize the ensign is a magazine right? Oh yeah, sports illustrated is holy doctrine to you. I forgot.
Dyoni1 15 hours ago
@Dyoni1 Yeah, the Ensign is only an official publication of the church. It has no bearing on anything and gets most of its facts wrong. People should check with Dyoni about Mormon beliefs, not untrustworthy official church publications like Ensign.
Nepthu 12 hours ago
@Dyoni1 * You do realize the ensign is a magazine right? * So, if an article about Mary conceiving Jesus via sexual intercourse appeared in the Ensign, you would dismiss it since it is just "a magazine". I would resign if I belonged to a church that couldn't control what came off it's own presses.
eeikman 48 minutes ago
@Khhaaan1 I just want to say it's nice to have someone actually read my comments and attempt to understand them rather then dissect them. The trouble with iNep and co is the deal in extreme absolutes that hold their target to impossible standards and won't treat people like human beings.. Then they try to demand that they decide others beliefs and intentions. It is quite silly.
Dyoni1 18 hours ago
@Nepthu LDS know how to keep the JOD in context, you on the other hand don't. Don't complain when you own faulty methods mar your efforts.
Dyoni1 18 hours ago
@Dyoni1 You mean LDS know how how to be selective with church quotes as to always come out smelling like Roses.
Nepthu 12 hours ago
What Nep tries to pass off is assumption of intention, if someone is mistaken, he tries to pass off that it must be with milisious intent. He has been given plenty of examples from bible and prophets showing the falability of prophets and the falws of humanity, the proof he seeks, but is never good enough, NOTHING will be good enough except a full submission to his own flawed and biased set of views.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 I have asked you to admit to something--ANYTHING--the church did was wrong. You said that you have done that, but now you give a run-around answer. This is how you answer every post.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu Again, as long as you use 'wrong' with your own definition behind it,I can't admit to it, as it would be lying.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 Oh, so now you're Bill Clinton. Define "is." The truth is that your arguments make no sense and you change your mind constantly. You mentally flip lop like a flap jack on acid.
Nepthu 22 hours ago
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@Dyoni1 I have asked you to admit to something--ANYTHING--the church did was wrong. You said that you have done that, but now you give a run-around answer. This is how you answer every post.
Nepthu 12 hours ago
The fact here is that even when given what they ask for, Bad critics will not accept it. You give China the set of practice and beliefs that LDS adhere to, he ignores it. You tell him what is doctrine and what is not, he ignores this. You give him sources explaining and clarifying meaning of talks and interviews, he ignores it. He accuses others are being blind, but who is the one cutting out everything he is given?
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 You keep using the same flawed arguments and poor responses. When asked outright simple questions, you refuse to give an answer. Your stupidity is like a breath of stinky air that makes the truth smell even sweeter.
Nepthu 12 hours ago
@Nepthu You should feel embarrased for being in the same side of chinaculiacan. She is ill. No one here needs more help than her. She can´t help nobody.
dorisfenella 5 hours ago
The distinct difference we see here is that China applies talks to what he can use in a negative aspect rather then bothering to find out what the speaker is referring to. He makes an assumption and tries to enforce it. The only conflicts he makes really are those in his own mind rather then anything true, as he refuses to apply scripture in the way LDS practice it. It parallels the holy crusades where people were put to death for not conforming to the view of the Bible made by those in power.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
So all we really have is China recycling his flawed arguements, insisting he can impose his own mindset on others, desperatly trying to drown anyone else out with a tone of fluff he has failed to do anything but fling out without understanding or comprehension. LDS have stated their beliefs clearly time and again, however, all China can do is look for something to distort, failing to realize that the sermons he tries to dissect have been clarified on by their speackers.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1
China's hate is so deep for Mormons, that he WANTS us to believe in things that we don't actually believe.
Why?
Simple. China WANTS to have more reasons to mock and attack us. This is the way that Anti-Mormons try to make themselves feel better, due to their insecurity in their own faith.
It is sad.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 Then there are those like iNep who try to convince others that putting something in context is refusing to acknowledge something. But China isn't an anti-mormon, he has shown no comprehension of LDS beliefs and practices, thus, has no real insite into LDS belief, thus no threat. He is simply a bad critic trying to grab some attention where he can.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 What have you admitted that the church has done wrong? I'm still waiting.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 Until you can decide what the word "wrong" means, you're not worth talking to. You've already shown that you can't think clearly by ignoring evidence. You're the biggest fool I've ever seen on youtube and a disgrace to the LDS people.
Nepthu 22 hours ago
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@Khhaaan1 Wrong again dude! There is no hate! Mocking? Probably! Why? Because Your Mormon Leaders did more than mocking, the said Christians had a part of the devil and his work with his angels! You understand now? U are here crying like a little girl about how you said I have deep hate for Mormons, read your history and your leaders words before you point you fingers at other, what I do it doesn't make me feel good about myself! Nor do I have any insecurity about my faith, my faith is in Jesus
Chinaculiacan 2 hours ago
If one actually examines to scriptures, they can easily see there are no contradictions that the exitable bad critics assume in their literal, read only half, exclude context manner. They misinterpert, fale to recognize what is being said, ignore the situations and show us that cannot tell what events are happening. For instance his Alma referance shows us that China has not realised that Alma is trying to relate his beliefs to someone unfamiliar with them, and finding common termanolgy.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 She is a knucklehead monster.
dorisfenella 9 hours ago
As we can see, China ignores what anyone says and has to try and put words in others mouths to throw off the fact that he is wrong on so many levels. Khhaaan1 has given him facts and truth about LDS policy, practice, belief, and such, and all he can do is make another series of empty accusations. All he has is his distortions, excluding all context, including explainations and clarifications by the issuers of the sermons he tries to distort. All he gives us is his own distorted view, not truth.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
Khhaan1, incapable of accepting the idea of infallible human beings?! These men were not looked up at, as regular men but as men that spoke for God, on his behalf and their "mistakes" were not little and insignificant.
TheSoulamore 1 day ago
The phrase "Ye are Gods" is We belong to God. We are His, but speaking of only those birthed from above.
TheSoulamore 1 day ago
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@TheSoulamore "The phrase "Ye are Gods" is We belong to God."
So, are you saying that in the original Hebrew / Greek of those two scriptures it is an apostrophe denoting posessive instead of plural? LOL!
That is a new one. Look at the context. Look at the original language (you know that the Bible was translated from another language into English right?). Clearly the original Hebrew shows a plural noun "gods" not "God's" (possessive).
Nice try.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
Since mortal beings are the spirit children of Heavenly Parents, the ultimate possibility is for some of them to become exalted to Godhood." (The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.104) Brigham Young declared: "Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.245).
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan
So, you don't believe that we are sons and daughters of God? You don't believe that we are God's children?
Paul agrees in the New Testament that we are his "offspring". (Acts 17:28) The original Greek word here could not be clearer. Not to mention all of the other teachings found elsewhere in the Biblical text that confirm this.
Now, before you mock... We don't claim to know how spirits are conceived. I assume spirit is made by a spiritual method.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
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@Khhaaan1 1st I'm having problems wth computer, n 2 I can only post 2 posts! (Acts 17:28) In him we live and move and are. This is a quote from the Cretan poet Epimenides, typical Mormon, never read before and after the verse. Acts 17:27. To seek God. God's purpose for man to reveal Himself as Creator, ruler and controller of the world. Men cannot be excused from not knowing about God because He has revealed Himself in human consciousness and the physical world (look at Romans 1:19 20, 2:15)
Chinaculiacan 2 hours ago
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@Khhaaan1 Acts 17:29. God's lineage. A quote from Aratus, who came from the region of Cilicia, where Paul also was a native. Like gold or silver. If man is the offspring of God, here referred to (creation) as suggested by the Greek poet, it is foolish to think that God is not only a man-made idol. This reasoning is evident how absurd idolatry (Isaiah 44: 9-20) Acts 17:28 here the whole issue is about idolatry.
Chinaculiacan 2 hours ago
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@Khhaaan1 John 1:12. He posttest to become children of God. (Powers) Those who received Jesus, The Word, receive the full right and authority to claim the exalted title "Children of God" Verse 13. The divine side of salvation does not depend ultimately on the will of man to produce salvation, but of the will of God. (Look at John 36-8, Titus 3:5 1 John 2:29)
Chinaculiacan 2 hours ago
Mat 24:13 False Teachers and False Prophets? Oh Yes Joseph Smith right? james 2:14 Oh yes that is why Joseph Smtth Liad about having only 1 wife? and said he preached the Gospel? oh yes! Matt 7:21, Oh yes Mormon Leaders? Oh yes BY, JS, GB, (they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; there is some substance to what they say) oh Yes! John 14:24? Oh Yes! Let's see, Joseph didn't believe in Gods words, that's why he wrote another saying God's word was not true! Oh Yes.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
HE WASN'T BEGOTTEN BY THE HOLY GHOST! Look at the text man! The Holy Spirit was present in order to allow the conception to occur, yes, but the "Most High" is the actual Father (Luke 1:35).
Show me in the Bible where it says that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Holy Spirit, not God the Father.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 I can help you with this:
Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
"the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:20
Also, Dyoni has insisted that LDS don't use the JOD, but you're quoting it???
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu Wrong again, what I said is, the journal of discourses is not scripture. LDS use such things only as suplmental material for study, not as rules or laws as you do. They hold opinions of prophets in their time, but is not considered completely accurate due to the recording methods of the time.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 What you have proven time and time again is that you play by another set of rules. It's ok for a Mormon to quote the JOD, but if a critic quotes it, they are out of line.
In other words, you're a hypocrite who bashes people for doing exactly what you do. Dyoni, I can't recall the amount of times you've said something and then failed to back it up. You're a joke and obviously mentally ill or retarded.
Nepthu 22 hours ago
@Nepthu Dyoni has insisted that LDS don't use the JOD, but you're quoting it??"
What? Someone else quoted it. I was commenting on the quote that someone posted here.
Matthew 1:20 - As I said, the Holy Spirit was present, and made the conception possible, but it does not say that the Holy Spirit is the Father. Let’s look at the New Testament.
Do you really want to argue that God the Father...is NOT the Father of Jesus?
Does Jesus pray to the Holy Spirit or to his Father?
Khhaaan1 20 hours ago
@Khhaaan1 Could you imagine an article published by a General Authority in the Ensign today with a new doctrine of Mary conceiving Jesus by sexual intercourse? No? That's exactly what occurred in 1854 in what was the equivalent of the Ensign at the time, in a periodical called The Millennial Star.
eeikman 16 hours ago
@Khhaaan1 Nice change of subject. Have you acknowledged what you were initially asking? Brigham Young said Jesus was NOT born of the Holy Spirit. You then DARED China to prove it wrong. I showed you in Matt 1:20.
The question is: Who's right The Bible or Brigham Young??? Answer the question.
You already acknowledge Young can be wrong; you didn't realize he was wrong in this case.
Why is it that when I clearly show a Mormon they're wrong,they change the subject???
Nepthu 12 hours ago
@Nepthu "Who's right The Bible or Brigham Young???"
Has it crossed your mind that both of them could be wrong from time to time?
iviewthetube 9 hours ago
Get Off my Inbox
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan Get out of here monster. Help yourself first.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
"Jesus the groom and I'm his bride"
chinaculiacan.
Poor Jesus. Someone must stop this woman cause she is offending Jesus.
"I would have liked to kill Joseph Smith with my own hands"
"I am a Saint a redeemer, Jesus is in me"
How could Jesus be in a potential criminal? Blasphemy!
Also she called me b**h with no reason and inventing false things about my private life.
Does anyone believe she is a christian really?.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
Oh I forgot the "S" for Satanic, sice you Mormons recite luceferian Oaths, Doris name is not going to be anymore, she is going to have a secret name of "Mary" her husband "Joseph is going to resurrect her! Mary! Be carefull your husband doesn't resurrect many other Mary Mormons, wait? I don't think your husband will mind resurrecting many! this way he'll have many celestial wives! Oh Doris, you are going to be a Sister wife! Wua wua wua!!
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan You don´t have to do nothing else you are already Satanic
dorisfenella 1 day ago
"How does it feel being a b**h and be licking the BOM"
THIS IS CHINA, AND YOU SEE THIS PEOPLE? YES I DID SAY THIS TO DORIS, I DON'T DENY IT. I HAVE SAID THIS SO MANY TIMES, AND YET SHE KEEPS SAYING I WAS DENYING, I'M NOT DENYING, THIS IS FOR YOU PUBLIC.
But she thinks about herself "I contempt for the truth. Not talk down on anyone" And pretend to speak about delusion.
world upside down
dorisfenella 1 day ago
No actually is 1 (800) Doris D= Dunda, O= orgullosa. R= Refea. I= Idiota. A= Acomplejada. This is something so that you deliver to your Mormons sister and brother. I told you to stop sending me messages.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan Your magic ball fails. Satan still doesn´t give you the powers to see how a person is really or to know his/her private life.
Go to complain to him.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan You are a monster. You can´t help NOBODY.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
Here a sample of how a raging lunatic speaks
" Go back to your mami and tell her you are being a Go back to your mami and tell her you are being a good brown nose to the lds faith. You really make me laugh. :) Im out of your league? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! dude hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha¬, wait? cough, let me catch my breath! hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah "
Chinaculiacan
dorisfenella 1 day ago
There is a person trying to find me! Well I'll just be polite and give her the phone number (1 800) LDS L= lunatics, D= Diluted. S= Satanic
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan The number of your boss.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
Yeah! Revelation from Joseph? And I'm the Green Lantern! Like Gordon said, they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; He was right, and so every other Mormon out there.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan " I'm the Green Lantern!" Oh no no poor Green Lantern. He is suposed to be a hero not a villain.
dorisfenella 1 day ago
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@Chinaculiacan "they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity;"
Was "traditional" Christianity right about indulgences? ; Torturing people in the Crusades? , Worshipping Mary? Not allowing people to read the Bible?
You know that Christianity was twisted in many ways, yet you latch on to CREEDS that are beyond what the Bible actually says.
You claim to only believe what the Bible says, when I have seen you ignore what it says and add to it.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
Chinaculiacan says she is trying to help LDS
What a good help. insulting and calling B** to others?
No he can´t help nobody because he always speak in anger or laughing her sickening mocks.
like this:
" NOOOOOOOOT. keep going blindy!! "
Im out of your league? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! dude hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha¬¬¬, wait?? cough, let me catch my breath! "
signs of madness
dorisfenella 1 day ago
Book of Moses “And I, God, called the dry land Earth. Book of Abraham “And the Gods pronounced the dry land, earth.
Book of Moses “And I, God, made the beasts of the earth after their kind. Book of Abraham “And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind.
Book of Moses “And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden." (Moses 2:1, 3, 10, 25; 3:8) Book of Abraham “And the Gods planted a garden in Eden." (Abraham 3:15; 4:3, 10, 25; 5:8)
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan “And the Gods organized the earth ..."
You may not know this, but the original word in the Bible for God is "Elohim", which is a plural noun. The singular noun is "Eloah" , which usually was NOT used in the Bible. The verb often used with "Gods" in the original Hebrew was singular, indicating that the "Gods" acted as one.
This is why we see in the Bible, "Let US create man in OUR image..." LDS doctrine is consistent with the original Hebrew. Look it up.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
Book of Moses" The Lord Spake unto Moses saying: Behold I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the works which I speak.
Book of Abraham “And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
Book of Moses "And I God, said: Let there be light; and there was light.
Book of Abraham “And they (the Gods, said: Let there be light; and there was light.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
the Book of Moses. Both books are supposed to contain a direct revelation concerning the creation of the world. While the Book of Moses states that "I, God" created the heavens and the earth, the Book of Abraham states that "they (the Gods)" created them. Take a look
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves. No man can learn you more than what I have told you (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, pp. 613-14).] This is the best way to illustrate Joseph Smith's change of mind concerning the Godhead is to compare the Book of Moses with the Book of Abraham. Both of these books are printed in the Pearl of Great Price, one of the four standard works of the Mormon Church. The Book of Abraham was supposed to have been given some years after
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
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@Chinaculiacan "You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves."
Christ in the New Testament said, "ye are gods." (John 10:34) He was quoting Psalm 82:6 of the Old Testament which states "Ye are gods, and all of you children of the Most High."
Jesus was fine with calling humans by the title "gods". Take it up with Him.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
By the year 1844 Joseph Smith had completely disregarded the teachings of the Book of Mormon, for he declared that God was just an exalted man and that men could become Gods. He stated as follows: First, God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man like unto one of yourselves that is the great secret. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have I’m gained that God was God from all eternity. God himself; the Father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan "God himself; the Father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ."
Again, Joseph was reading what the Bible says. John 5:19-20 "The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:"
Christ was doing what the Father had done previously.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
Get the freak out of my inbox Khhaaan1, what was in Mary was Holy and is Holy, G-d was not a man of flesh and bones who had sperms for Mary to conceived, as your false prophet suggested! How dare you blindly! Get the freak out of my inbox.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Chinaculiacan "G-d was not a man of flesh and bones..."
Do you deny that Jesus was God... or do you deny that Jesus was flesh and bones?
Either way, the Bible is not in your favor.
"who had sperms for Mary"
I don't think anybody mentioned sperms. Who knows? We do know that Mary didn't impregnate herself. Somebody impregnated her, the Bible suggests that Christ was Begotten of the Father. Do you disagree?
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 Jesus is God! So you are saying the Holy spirit had sperm to inpregnate Mary? Now read this and understand something. LDS try to support their claims of a "flesh and bones" God by saying He created man in His own image (Gen. 1:26-27). But, God was not created in the image of man! Just because man has a body of flesh, blood, and bones does not mean that God is made of the same material. The statue, or image, of Abraham Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial is (continue)
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 19 feet tall and made of white Georgia marble, but was President Lincoln 19 feet tall with a body of white marble? Obviously, "image" does not mean "made of the same material" or "made the same size." Furthermore, Joseph Fielding Smith said, "We know that Jesus our Savior was a Spirit when this great work (creation) was done. He did all these mighty works before he tabernacled in the flesh" (D. of S., Vol. I, p. 75). That statement shows that man could not be created in the (continue)
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
(Gordon B H ) AS a church we have critics, many of them, they say we don’t believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity; there is some substance to what they say. Our faith and knowledge, is NOT based on ancient tradition, our faith our knowledge comes from the witness of the prophet in this dispensation. I say this man was a bad critic to the core about (THE TRADITIONAL CHRIST OF CHRISTIANITY) Hum? what is wrong with this pic? I know, this man also has mental illiness. N is blind. The END.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
Funny how some Mormons forget their history and play self-righteous when they mention arguments against race, when they themselves know their history against black people and how their leaders themselves jumped into ugly conclusions and perverseness! (Joseph Smith) Had I anything to do with the Negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species.”False Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. January 2, 1845, History of the Church, v. 5, pp. 21-218.
Chinaculiacan 1 day ago
As we can see, all bad critics are here to do is insult and mock. In the end, all they really do is show a window into their own minds, where they jump to conclusions and see perversness and evil in everyone else but themselves. Strangely this is the same trend of arguements against Americans, African Americans, Irish, Asians, Jews, Homosexuals, etc... Guess their running out of people to unjustly persecute. It will be nice when people realize their mistake and people and live in peace.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
What is worse than a man telling gullible followers that God commanded them to practise polygamy?, Its the half-wit Lds leader that created the lie, that it was safely guarded for those with the highest standards...what?! Now its the most blessed that get the priviledge?! If i didnt laugh i would cry and you want to say its not about sex. Ha. I guess that reward will have to wait until the after life.
TheSoulamore 1 day ago
In the end, it becomes quite boring, and no one should really be intimidated. Really all the bad critic is seeking is negative attention and self importance, and their claims are merely words. True, some may buy into them due to those who are good at making convincing sounding arguements, but no amont of prettying up deceptions will make them true, and study of the subject reveals the distortion quite easily.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
Bad critics will argue that refusing to play their game of 'ring around the flawed logic' is 'proof' that they are right, this of course is merely a sad delusion of self importance. Those here have shown consistantly that there is no point in trying to correct their mistakes, as they are not receptive to anything that may force them to consider themselves as wrong, or even mistaken. It has been shown in the repetative insistance that 'LDS believe this and that' without the view that LDS hold.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
Anybody who wants to see how much lying the church did--even to its own members--about polygamy can see all the info at Mormonthink (dot) com.
Don't take my word for it. The church ONLY admitted Joseph Smith's sordid past after the advent of the Internet where the info became too hard to hide. If not for the Internet, they would still deny it.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu All the information that we have (including the information on the internet) comes from documents that the LDS church has provided. Yet you claim the Church hid it?
If the Church had kept all hidden, nobody WOULD know about it. So, you are wrong.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 The church admits things after they've been FORCED to--kicking and screaming. Joseph Smith HID his polygamy. If you don't know that, you don't know your own history very well.
Nepthu 1 day ago
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Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 Bad critics try to protray Prophets as somehow being more perfect then others. We have seen in the bible the numerous mistakes that prophets make, yet bad critics insist that modern prophets must somehow be perfect, even when LDS do not expect them to be so. The fact is that prophets are human, just like you or me, and no amount of distoring their words or our beliefs will change the reality of things.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
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@Nepthu "Joseph Smith HID his polygamy."
I would have too! "Uh, yeah. Can I have some more persecution please. Yeah, thanks."
Guess what? Mary (the mother of Jesus Christ) and Joseph HID the fact that she got pregnant before getting married. Why? Because people just wouldn't understand.
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
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@Khhaaan1 Oh we see now! So Joe hide polygamy because what? People would not understand? Oh that's nice for Joe and you covering this wacko! So he forgot to apply 1 Timothy 3:2 ah? And so that's why he feared? Hhahaha What a joke from you dude! Thank you for making us laugh, or girl. Take a look at what else your prophet forgot to apply to be a true prophet, read these verses and learn something. Verse 10, 4:16; 5:7; Psalms 101:6; Philippians 3:17' 2 Thesalonians 3:9 Acts 13:7 1 Peter 5:3
Chinaculiacan 2 hours ago
You cannot honestly say you would accept anything LDS members gave you unless it was something you could twist into self incrimination, you assume the worst of people and insist we have to prove innocence and default to guilt. Your logic is laughable, and nobody has to play your silly game of mudslinging, because you have shown your lack of character and lack of interest time and again. In short, your simply a one pony show that has died and you continue to beat.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 My logic is laughable only if you call doing your own research laughable. It's funny that you equate mudslinging with doing research.
From the beginning, you have defended every disgusting thing your church has done. You see it through rose-colored glasses. Next you'll say the Mountain Meadows Massacre is fake.
I really don't blame you because I think you have a mental illness. I'm sorry that your eyes are shut to objective thinking, but it's not my job to accept your delusion.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu You have shown yourself incapable of stating LDS views as LDS view them, have ignored content and context, held everyone guilty of the actions of a few, refused to apply credit where it is due, and show no interest in supporting anything but your own bias. Claiming you have done research is just another in a long line of empty claims. You may want to have a psychitrist check you out, since ou have a habit of trying to impose your own flaws on others.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Nepthu "Next you'll say the Mountain Meadows Massacre is fake."
You don't GET IT. Mormons know that there are things Mormons have said and done in the past that were wrong.
Nobody is disputing the fact that mistakes were made. You simply seem incapable of accepting the idea of fallible human beings. I suggest you take a step back and read Matt 7:1-6
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 You clearly don't get it. I was speaking about Dyoni--who has never acknowledged anything bad--EVER. You clearly heard a snippet of the conversation and decided to insert your two cents. You say "anti-Mormons dig up pieces here and there" but that's exactly what you did in your accusation here.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu Liar, I have clearly agreed that bad things have happened, but I have offered as usual, the context of LDS belief concerning fallability. As usual, tring to impose your own mindset on others.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 Liar, you have yet to admit one thing the LDS did was wrong. Please repeat the list of mistakes the church has made so we can all see what you have "admitted" to being wrong.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu You use 'wrong' as an absolute, so no I have not admitted to YOUR definition of 'wrong' I have admitted that prohets can be mistaken, I have admitted that individuals can do bad things, I have admitted that prophets can have mistaken opinions. What I do not admit to is your definition: "Not conforming to my own set of rules and therefore disproving any and all." I admit to the humanity of prophets, not the hubris of you.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 THERE YOU GO AGAIN!!!!! Dyoni, I merely ask you for proof and examples, and EVERY TIME, you answer me my saying, "I don't you an explanation. You're just wrong." or some similar statement.
Not two minutes ago, you said you did admit the church did some wrongdoings, and now you're saying you won't answer.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Nepthu "I was speaking about Dyoni--who has never acknowledged anything bad--EVER."
What Dyoni has attempted to push against is how Anti-Mormons pretend that our leaders are worse than they really were.
Regular Mormons who read the teachings of Mormon prophets have a better image of Brigham Young, for example, than those who go online and read only the "bad stuff" he said taken out of context.
Mormons try to embrace what BY taught that was true, and reject what was false. So?
Khhaaan1 1 day ago
@Khhaaan1 The truth is that you are very selective about what your Prophets teach. On one hand, you say they speak the truth, on the other hand you censor them. This is the perfect example of double-think.
It's also SUPREME IRONY that if anyone besides a Mormon quotes Brigham Young, they must have it all wrong. You know there are many Mormon groups such as the FLDS who use your selective understanding of Young to show the LDS are apostates.
Nepthu 22 hours ago
@Nepthu "you are very selective about what your Prophets teach."
No. YOU are selective.
I agree with 99.9% of everything the LDS prophets have ever taught. It is the Anti-Mormons who go back and select very specific quotes from extensive records over a 180 year history, often taken out of context. Sure, when you put the mistakes together, it seems like a lot ... until you consider the 99.9% they did right. Judge others at your own risk.
Again. It is YOU who is being selective.
Khhhaan1 20 hours ago
@Khhhaan1 Actually I'm taking ALL of what Brigham Young said into consideration. YOU are attempting to cut out the bad parts, which is true irony since the Church always drills into your heads that the Prophet never leads people astray.
Nepthu 12 hours ago
@Khhaaan1 You quoted something from Young calling it true. You then dared China to show a biblical contradiction. "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
"the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:20
Why quote a wrong dogma?
Nepthu 22 hours ago
@iNep I don't really need to do any refuting, you've already refuted yourself with cognitive dissonance arguments, ignorance of LDS practice and views, double standards, and imposition of your own standards on others, not to mention trying to control others doctrine, beliefs and even genders in the same sad attempt to drown out anyone opposing your flawed logic.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 Try as you might, you'll never drown logic with your abundance of lies.
Nepthu 1 day ago
As we can see, the mistakes made by bad critics are constant and unchanging, showing us the stubborn pride that so many cling to when they become obsessed. they cannot learn or grow, as doing so would require letting go of false notions and admitting to having made mistakes in their logic. They seem to believe they are incapable of error, and try to impose this flaw on others, when in reality, the ones guilty of such accusations are themselves.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 Again, we see the same mistake by Dionyi who, instead of addressing problems, simply dismisses them with the same blanket excuse. Talk about a broken record. *yawn*
Nepthu 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 You haven't refuted a single argument in this post, just repeated your "bad critics" speech over and over. The fact that you THINK you come across as halfway intelligent shows the biggest cognitive dissonance of anyone here.
First you insists we only quote LDS scriptures-ignoring history altogether--and then you have the audacity to quote Bruce McConkie. I love how you're so full of yourself. It's quite amusing.
Nepthu 1 day ago
@ soul, "I have never seen" lying again I see. The fact is you've seen it plenty of times, but apply the usual, "I reject anything that does not support me" stand bad critics live to take. It has been stated by church leaders, church representatives, common members, again and again, but as usual, the only excuse bad critics have for ignoring this is cognitive dissonance.
Dyoni1 1 day ago
@Dyoni1 *Yawn* The irony is that you're the one exhibiting cognitive dissonance. Anything else you got or just the same bull you've been repeating for months?
Nepthu 1 day ago
Doris, I have never seen anyone disprove that Lds teachings are...God had sex with mary. Denying it, is not proof. For those that missed it, please disprove this again Doris.
TheSoulamore 1 day ago
@TheSoulamore I was refering about your monster friend but you felt alluded. LOL
dorisfenella 1 day ago
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" Which Christ you follow? the one who was conceived by the father having sex with Mary?"
That crazy woman must have repeating this false alleged doctrine about 50 times. And I saw many LDS have disproved her arguments over and over again.
What a way to spend her time. Pathetic
dorisfenella 2 days ago
Again, not China's use of wizards, spirits in which he tries to dictate who is classified as what. Again, the same mistakes again and again without fail or variation.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
knowledge foolish; that confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers. I say Joseph was in big trouble when he faced God the almighty. I wonder what God might’ve said! “Apart from me I never knew you” But hey! You Mormons believe is was a true prophet, and his followers like BY among others! They were fools to the core when they dared gave opinions about the Holy One.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
Isa. 19:3 I will destroy counsel thereof and they shall seek idols, charmers, familiar spirits and wizards. Isa. 29:1-4 Woe to Ariel...one that hath a familiar spirit. Isa. 44:24-26 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
Lev. 19:31 Regard not...familiar spirits neither seek after wizards.
Lev. 19:26 Neither use enchantment nor observe times.
Lev. 20:6 Familiar spirits, wizards...I will set my face against.
Lev. 20:27 Hath familiar spirit or wizard - put to death.
Deut. 18:10-12 Divination, enchanter, witch, charmer, consulter with familiar spirits, wizard, necromancer - abomination to Lord. Isa. 8:19 When they say - seek familiar spirits or wizards that peep - should not a people seek their God?
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
speech was to be low out of the dust, and their voice was to be as of one that had a familiar spirit. (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.3, p.213) However, Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prediction of God’s punishment on Jerusalem. The Bible always condemns familiar spirits. If the Book of Mormon is supposed to be the word of God why would God associate it with demonic forces? The following verses demonstrate God’s condemnation of familiar spirits.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
Witch hunt? Mormonism claims that Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prophecy of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Past president Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: ISAIAH PROPHESIES OF BOOK OF MORMON. One of the most important predictions regarding the Book of Mormon is that found in the 29th chapter of Isaiah. The prophet here speaks of a people who should be like Ariel, the city where David dwelt. They should have heaviness and sorrow and should be brought down to speak out of the ground, and their
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
China has shown the usual mistakes of bad critics, putting his own bias before truth, logic and reason, hoping to shock people with twisted and distorted claims, quote mining, and appeals to negative emotions. He is even so convinced as to think he can decide what a person's gender is (I'm a man by the way), which is hilarious. As you can see, this foolish and childish behavior shows us that it is not a good idea to follow someone blindly, but to do self study for our own answers.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
As we can see, when faced with their flaws, bad critics often degrade into simple mockery and false delemas, convinced of their own infallability.
"As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. "Joseph, son of David," the angel said, "do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit."
As usual, bad critic indavertently condemn Christ. As before, a religions doctrine is their own to declare, not the critic.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Brigham Young once stated: "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51). This statement is in conflict with both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. In Matthew 1:18 and 20 we read: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." The Book of Mormon agrees with the Bible on this point, for in Alma 7:10 we read: "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, ... she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God." In spite of these plain statements, Joseph Fielding Smith denied that the Book of Mormon and the Bible teach that Christ was begotten
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@Chinaculiacan "By the power of the Holy Spirit."
It does not say that the Spirit IS the Father. Not only do you invent ideas that are in the Bible, but now the Book of Mormon too.
Nice how you happen to quote a scripture in the Book of Mormon that confirms we believe Mary was a Virgin.
Khhhaan1 20 hours ago
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Nepthu 12 hours ago
@Dyoni1 by the Holy Ghost: "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 19). (to thnk he can decide what person's gender) I'M A GIRL BY THE WAY. Blindy? oh yes! tell what are you seeing right now? Oh i see, you can't see!
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
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@Chinaculiacan LDS theology is only based on the following:
The Bible
The Book of Mormon
The D&C
The PofGP
And General Conferance talks that eventually get sustained as revelation to be binding on the saints (i.e. The Proclamation to the World)
These are called the STANDARD WORKS - and if it doesn't come from any of these..then it is just speculation and "theory" - not doctrine nor binding on the saints.
blackmamba54321 2 days ago
Maybe you should start getting ready to be resurrected by your husband with that secret given name! Wait? Isn’t Jesus the resurrection? And only he has the power to resurrect? Oh yes! But Joe and his leaders forgot that. Hey dyoni, have you asked for a passport to be where Christ and God are?
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@China HAHA! Still insinting you can decide one's gender. Seriously, the more you attempt to control others, their physical being, beliefs, and everything else, the more you testify your arrogance and ignorance. Here's a little hint, work on actually learning LDS beliefs before trying to apply them and don't assume. It is doubtful you will do this, since you apparently think you are infallable, but at least you can't tell Jesus you weren't advised when you have to explain your behavior to him.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 I have no problem explaning him, you in the other hand have lots to answer for putting your trust into men who said he practiced polygamy and had 3 wives before he died, or as of why the leaders you trust said God had sex with Mary.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@China Biblical prophets have practiced polygamy. I guess you must be saying we can't trust them either. Seriously, more double standards won't improve your already hopeless state.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Let's see now! The prophet did practiced polygamy! But wait? did one of them ever told other men's wives they were to be his and said (God told me to tell you because he wants me to do it)? Hum? Not.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Wait? HaHa! Arragance! You should know a lot about that since you are followng your leaders foot steps! Apply LDS beliefs? Good Lord no Thank you, I don't want the savior to find me in his second coming reciting Luceferian Oaths. Nooooooo Thank you.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@China "Apply LDS beliefs?" again, thank you for admiting that you don't apply LDS beliefs or practices to your arguement, it shows everyone that you are not honest in your accusations. I think you have far more to fear from Christ asking you about bearing false witness then you do about supposed 'lutharian oaths'.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Luceferian Oaths girl, are you wearing your green apron with Masonic symbols in it? because Satan is having a blass with you girl.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Infallible? No way! It is only Through Jesus Blood and his mercy that I have eternal life, neither through a husband nor through a passport of a man who took other men’s wives and their little girls and said God told him to do this. Get the point blindly?
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@China "Get the point blindly?" No thank you, I don't follow blind people like you. I follow Christ.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Which Christ you follow? the one who was conceived by the father having sex with Mary?
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@Chinaculiacan That makes no sense
blackmamba54321 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Or the one who had 3 wives, Mary, Martha and Mary Magdalena? so lol on you girl.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
Yawn, again, you being unable to apply context of times, trying to dictate what is acceptable, trying to control belief, making assumptions of guilt and all the usual mistakes bad critics make. Seriously your attempts are old and sad and contridictory, and we have seen enough cognitive dissonace arguements to know you'll never be truthful about the evidense, and will never accept anything given to you. Pearls before swine lad, maybe you should work on removing that beam first.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 I'm not trying to control anything, or to dictate, your leaders did that very well. Do you really think i care what you say? I am given you the Pearls, but there will other people who will learn of your church falseness and how you guys place the savior where you guys feel fits, you should work in knowing about if your leaders were true prophets and why they made stupid assumptions about the Lord Jesus Christ. Bow before Royalty you insolent fraud.
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
@China Your translation of pearls is "Anything I say' sorry, but you can't pass polished crap for pearls. I know you don't care about what anyone else says, you've made that very clear, nice to hear you admit your flaw. No one should bow to people like you, you are not God, nor anything resembling royalty.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
I know mormons are not. For their entire belief is founded on the bases of group belief. That is why they group or stay together. If you read the real Bible. Jesus himself sent out His own follwers to preach. He even said to preach His words through out the land. To forgive and heal. NOT JOIN! That is why mormons group for when separated, time will desolve their mormon belief. Jesus said, There are hundreds of prophecy about the coming of Christ. Where the one on Joe Smith or Mohammed?
tock101 2 days ago
@tock101 "Jesus himself sent out His own follwers to preach. He even said to preach His words through out the land" Obvioulsy you've forgotten about missionaries and the numerous volunteer effoerts that LDS perform world wide. Can you explain to me why these do not count as going forth into the world to peech and heal? You are also assuming, there are plenty of people, who when seperated from their ward, continue their beliefs reguadless of that seperation, myself included.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 Your brother's go and preach about a man who had a vision, (which are 11 of them) a man who lied to his followers and told them their wives were to be his because God had told him to. Do you see the differences? Jesus said go and preached the Gospel, Gospel means good news, you go and preach about a church and a false prophet, whose practices of witchcraft you don't mention to people, see the differences? Or telling the people he unearth his brother 2 practice witchcraft with his remains
Chinaculiacan 2 days ago
Dyoni, Another duh moment...then what the hell were your Prophets purpose then? At the time these Prophets spoke,the members hung on every word and were suppose to live by every word! You are a very disobedient mormon and u are lucky Brigham young is not alive.
TheSoulamore 2 days ago
So im confused how does this prove mormonism is wrong
Draigar2013 2 days ago
@Draigar2013 Let me put it this way. Let's say you wrote a goodbye letter to someone you knew that died and you slipped the letter into the coffin at the funeral. 1400 years later, the English language has bean forgotten. Somebody finds your letter, and "translates" your letter it into a "holy" book of scripture. All you said was "goodbye and have a nice afterlife", and this fake "holy" man said you were talking about secrets of the universe.
eeikman 2 days ago
@Draigar2013 It doesn't really. Unfortunatly it is the way of bad critics to push their ideas as correct reguardless of the fact that they cannot prove anything. For instance, Soul is still insisting the purpose of a prophet is to be a perfect man who has no other human quality and is only meant to be on earth to act as a radio antena for God in which every word is scripture. This nonsense is of course is wrong, but because he can't accept anything otherwise, he applies it to every accusation.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
Then there are those like eek who come up with scenereos such as 'good bye letters' and treats them as fact without proof. Any person in their right mind can tell you you don't start at a conclusion and work backwards to make it fact, but as usual, it is an assumption of guilt and demanding that you have to proove someones innocence. It is very disheartening to think there are people who still think lynch mobs are justified.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
As you can see, Bad critics have a hypocritical and unreasonable sense of self importance, trying to dictate that they somehow get to decide what others believe, as well as what is acceptable 'evidence'. All this boils down to is again the arrogance and self righteousness in witch they believe they can control the basis of morality and truth. We have all seen enough to know that the game they play is by their own set of stacked rules, one which no one is interested in playing.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@soul Riiight because 'I have a dream' was never truth. History is filled with those who make speeches voicing the truth, it seems you just don't like it when you are the one on the side doing the persecuting.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
Dyoni, excuse me! People that speak truth, dont have to make long repetitve snarling speeches about their opinion and i find you insult constantly,. on the defense always. Nice touch on slipping in the appeal to the heart(speaking of the savior). I rarely see that from you. Keep it real.
TheSoulamore 2 days ago
@eek you must be confused for if you consider my comments to be a diatribe, what would that make those of you and your fellow critics, that are far better characterized as 'abusive' then anything I have put out. Seriously, you should think before making such hypocritical comments.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 If you write "hypocritical" too many times, your fingers are going to cramp up.
eeikman 2 days ago
I find great comfort in the many things the lord has of offer us. One I find most pleasing is the music composed. If one has ever heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, you know what I mean. One of my favorites is 'The Lord is My Shepard', a very peaceful hymn.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
@Dyoni1 * 'The Lord is My Shepard', a very peaceful hymn. * Peaceful, unlike your lengthy diatribes. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
eeikman 2 days ago
Simply put, bad critics show arrogance in their attempts to control others beliefs, never truely showing us truth as their bias blinds them to reason and logic, reling on emotion as a substitute and hoping that by raising discord and spite, they can push people to agree. Sadly this is a ploy warned of in the bible, and as with many of it's precious lessons, it falls by the wayside for such critics.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
As we can see China quotes about 'wizards' and such. The basic ploy here is that the critic insists that he can decide who is a 'wizard' and who is not. Of course this translates into 'whomever I decide' arguements that are rather quite unreasonable. This again shows us the attempt to control others beliefs, which of couse is nonsense, and the belief is for the believer to declare, no the critic.
Dyoni1 2 days ago
As you can see, China never once quotes from the standard works that LDS use, instead, as always, resorting to trying to find a talk and insisting that it be treated as a bible unto itself. Note the adherance to the jouranal of discourses, which was a magazine in it's time and not known for great recording metho