Federal HST .40 S&W 180 gr JHP test with denim

[andr3w0312]

You should try out the grizzly Xtreme in .45. I saw a water jug review and I was impressed with that, but I bet it would be very, very impressive in the sim-test.

[hazza240]

I get 16.5 inches of penetration too :)

[a9mmauto]

ATG has winchester bonded 180gr " le white box" 50ct for 18.99 test this stuff it looks excellent

[a9mmauto]

who is DRT?  they sent you 7 rounds?

[kirkblackson]

Tested the same round out of a 3in barrel into just water. It exploded an 8" oj jug then shattered but did not penitrate the hard plastic bottom of a 2 ltr bottle taped onto it sideways. Expanded to .75' I know water tends to over expand hp's but it still seems a little shallow for defensive use, at least out of a sub-compact. Any thoughts?

[rdb38spl]

Could you please consider doing a 40 cal 180 grain HST test using Simtest medium?

[tnoutdoors9]

@rdb38spl

Plan on doing that early January 2012.

[CDPULTRA]

Hello Sir. I'm a Border Patrol Agent and I really appreciate your reviews. We were using the Federal .40 cal HST prior 2009 but the 155 gr cartridge. Now after 2009 the agency change to the 180 gr version. Both bullet are amazing, in my opinion. Take care.

[chrisw40]

whats the difference between these and brass hst?

[SurprisinglyClever]

I'm wondering if you'll help me out, @tnoutdoors9. I carry the 180-grain Federal HST in my Beretta PX4 fullsize. I am happy with the load from your ballistic test and the fact that it feeds quite well in my firearm. However, mine has standard brass cases, not nickel. I got it at Cabelas in plain white boxes (police overrun, I believe) for $24 per 50. I burned the first box of 50 for reliability testing. Is the powder charge & primer the same in the non-nickel cased version?

[GrenMoyo]

16 inches scares me....that pretty much means that it's going to go through the person in a defensive situation (AKA more of a possibility that it may zip through and hit an innocent person) .... :( i probably wouldn't want one that goes above 13-14 inches.

[Sack42]

How does this compare to Gold Sabers?

[GrenMoyo]

@Sack42 they are both good, however the HST is considered superior. the HST opens more widely for better energy transfer to tissue.

[SurprisinglyClever]

Like another poster, though, my cases too are brass, not nickel. I'm not concerned about that, but am curious.

[iceman27406]

@SurprisinglyClever nickle cases cost extra when a LEO Agency buy Ammo on a massive scale that couple of cents difference adds up for instance i think the FBI has a contract with Winchester worth over 54 million that savings can be used to buy more rounds.

[SurprisinglyClever]

This is my carry load in a Beretta PX4. Cycles 100% reliably and the hollow point is just cavernous. Thanks for the test, TO9

[southernstructure]

would you happen too remember the part number of this box

[Rustystud]

oh i have a few of them... they are really accurate and the edges of that hollowpoint is sharp. they look deadly

[joninwv]

hsts fenerally run about 1/2 the price i

[emotevlog]

Yea Bullets!

[cobyson100]

I was in Cabelas the other day and there sitting on the shelf was 4 boxes..I grabbed all of them. Packaging make them look less appealing next to other ammo on the shelf. Glad I foudn them.

[bcoyote]

I didn't go through all of the comments, so forgive me if it's already been answered...

Did you measure the retained weight of the projectile?

Thanks,

bc

[sungwei9]

What an awesome test!

[T28Mod]

I just recieved my order of this ammo. For some reason mine has brass casings instead of nickel.

[tito8512]

Have you tested the 180 gr federal jhp ?? but the ones that arent hydra shocks. They come in a blue box.lol

[SurprisinglyClever]

This is my carry .40 in my Beretta PX4. Supremely impressive round. This, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester PDX1 are the golden standards.

Though, truth be told, Ranger-T, Golden Saber, and any other modern HP design will do excellent work so long as it feeds reliably.

[VinnyVeee]

That looks like a piece of art.

[taylorzack78]

have you considerd doing a test with the extreme shock ammo line? I have been waiting for someone to do a good comprehensive test with that brand of ammo. I personally bought some MagSafe 9mm ammo for my 9mm, and it has a very energetic reaction when fired into jugs.

[bgroberts27]

Ammunitiontogo still has these in stock. I bought a few boxes awhile back from them. Just looked and they have 155 grn and 165 grn in stock as of 12/17/2010

[MrAzcabowabo]

i have a water HP jug test with hornadys and fioccis in 9mm and 45acp and couldnt get 1 to flower out like that. U can refer to my vid and tell me what i did wrong. Ive seen water tests work on other vids, just not mine. Cant fig out what I did wrong

[Blk05titan26]

i want some of these but here in east tx they just cant be found....

[tnoutdoors9]

@Blk05titan26

I don't see them anywhere. It's one of the best 180's on the market, IMO.

[mechanisto1832]

@tnoutdoors9 I can buy these in a brass case for 21.99/50 rounds. Cabelas also has them. Supposedly they are a over-run for homeland security.

[iceman27406]

@tnoutdoors9 my local gun shop has about 10 boxes at 22 bucks per box of 50 i bought two today and probably another couple in a day or two. excellent stuff. they are in a white box labeld 40 S&W 180 GRAIN HST JHP XM40HC they are brass cased i am guessing to save the LEO Agency money over nickel cases i am willing to send some rounds your way or give you the shop info.

[mechanisto1832]

@Blk05titan26 My local gun store has them on sale for 21.99/50rd

[Glasgow1270]

@Blk05titan26 My local shop has stacks of them for $28.95 for 50. Send me a personal message for more info.

[viperbo21]

@Blk05titan26

ammunitiontogo



[N777DE]

I have too have a white box of these. 40 S&W 180 grain HST JHP Are these the same round same performance

[jorgelr85]

Great videos, very informative...Thanks for taking your time to perform these tests.

I am using 40 cal now for my edc am just undecided, about using the 180gr or the 165gr maybe for a bit more velocity. If i send you some 165s do you think you can test this round, i live in an apartment and therefore cant really test a round like this.

[JungleJimAB9AB]

Very well detailed and informative test video. Thanks for posting.

[airborne432]

have you ever tested the magtech guardian gold on a glock 27 or similar? There is not much materials for those rounds around and seems to be very impresive but is not the same to wacht them on action. I mean expansion and reliability? Could you? Thanks! Nice job.

[tnoutdoors9]

@airborne432

Someone is supposed to be sending me Magtech, or I may already have a box....it gets confusing at times. I would be using the G22 for that test.

[tnoutdoors9]

@airborne432

This test was posted November 2010, Guardian Gold in 180 gr from a Glock 22.

[victortsui123]

can hollow point kill ppl?

[Sharingan221]

@victortsui123 that is its intended purpose...

[shittyfuck]

@victortsui123 no if u missed the target.

[pr4runner]

Thank you again for providing such good tests and detailed attention to your quality of video. I can actually see what you are showing. Wish you could provide your method of filming. I think it would help a lot for others.

Thanks if you can or can not do this.

Thanks again for taking your time to develop your films.

[obxemt]

Very interesting. I realize this isn't a perfect scientific test, but I was still surprised to see some 180-grain loads perform better than lighter 165-grain loads.

[str8jacket3044]

Have you ever rated hydroshoks, and how are they different from regular hollowpoints?

[tnoutdoors9]

@str8jacket3044

August 2010....I have some in 9mm that I will eventually test, but it's not on my carry load list.

[str8jacket3044]

Very informative clips!

[eamonher]

I tested some like this in water jugs with a g27 and they opened nicely. I forgot to get the denim though

[lcbrmy]

I bought a box of these but they were in a white box of fifty with brass casings not nickle. Is this the same round w/ the same performance?

[tnoutdoors9]

@lcbrmy

You may have purchased the 135 gr HST, which has been available at WalMart. I have posted a test on this....very different performance.

[lcbrmy]

@tnoutdoors9 It isn the winchester white box you would usually find at walmart but 180gr federal HST, I found it in a small gun shop, I ran some personal test similar to yours but just using water no paper, and found the same results for expansion so i was just wondering if this was the same type of round.

[Sharingan221]

@lcbrmy what you got are contract rejects, most likely ICE contract ammo if you got 135 gr, or if you got 180 gr probably a local PD as many local PD's use HST

[excelerater]

just picked up 2 boxes,,,,,,,,I hope I never have to point them at anyone,they are very deadly.......

[pjicleanair420]

i caught an hst 180 today < i was pleased

[cplbullet]

Hey just wondering if you have ever weighed the bullets to see what they retain in weight.

[tnoutdoors9]

@cplbullet

I don't have the proper scale, but I do check the damage path for fragments.

[fusionstar916]

@tnoutdoors9 I believe it will provide an excellent added bonus to the ballistics videos. I purchased an electronic scale with accuracy down to 0.1gn for less than 25 dollars on ebay, US Made. Very well made for the money, Its my primary reloading scale as well.

[retthok]

Even though the expansion looks similar to the 9mm hst you tested, it is worth mentioning that if you look at your videos of the 9 and 40 hst tests, the 40 appears to "hit" much harder.

[LegendSexy]

Just picked up 3 boxes of 50!

[bleedingxxaurora]

I found one of these bullets on the floor next to the pump while I was at the gas station filling up. Wouldn't have found this vid if it wasn't for the " 40 Federal S&W " On the bottom of it.

But this one isn't hollow point, it's got an F on the tip.

[MuayThaiReaper101]

This IMO, is the best ammo out there for a handgun. I am a .40 shooter and you really can't beat the forty in semi-auto cartidge. Velocity of a 9 and the punch like a 45 ACP. Federal HST is just the king of JHP/defensive rounds for semi's! Thank you sir for your test, i can't wait to see more!

[ericandamanda338]

I bought a box of this today but mine are in brass cases, not nickel.

[jakksmakk78]

thanks for all your hard work and dedication in putting these videos together. one small request/recomendation. could you perhaps add retained weight as a measurment of the recovered bullet? also, it would be cool to see some tests using 38spl +p and 357mag for all us j frame shooters out there.

[tnoutdoors9]

If I had an accurate scale for the weight, I would certainly include that data. Will add a scale to the equipment purchase list. For the greatest majority of these tests, I would guess the retained weight to be at or near 100%.

Other calibers.....I have access to .38 and will probably toss a few videos into the mix....but no firm date at this time. I agree that it would be good to show some popular loads for some revolver calibers.

[jmtyndall]

@tnoutdoors9

I have a reloading scale. If they are cheap to ship by snail-mail, I'll weigh them for you. Shoot me a message if you want.

[Chronos127]

Did the police in the UK search peoples homes during the banning process?

[Chronos127]

Knee jerk that is the perfect term to describe the way society acts nowadays, something bad will happen, even like a car wreck or something,and they think the solution is to pass some new bullshit law that takes everyones freedom away,our rights r more important than some of these bullshit laws,,esp. That UK law.,,and that's what I always tell people everyones kitchen has weapons u could kill someone with.I hate to hear that for u guys in UK

[Chronos127]

R u guys saying your not aloud to own a handgun in UK,damn I'm never movin there,that makes me laugh

[mojothemigo]

The UK has become obsessed with banning weapons or everyday objects that can be used as a weapon. They were trying and might have passed a ban on freaking glass mugs in bars! Somebody could break them and use them to cut somebody don'tchyeah know? All the while criminals are laughing their asses off getting weapons any way they can. violent crime continues to go up.

[Chronos127]

Very well done informational video,,believe it or not I found one of these bullets on the rug in a restaraunt,, I was obviously interested in it.I wasn't familiar with it so I googled what was written on it,FEDERAL 40 S & W and found this video and learned all about it.I am a gun owner tho,I have a CDWL and a S & W .45

[cheesetopper1]

You're doing fantastic work here TN, a real service to us shooters!

I would be really interested to see your 9mm 147grain HST re-tested with the 4 layer denim to get a direct comparison with this .40 loading. It would make choosing which to carry a lot easier. Thanks a load!

[ghostrider1krr]

I agree. It would be very interesting to see how the 9mm gold dot and HST performed after denim.

[silver760]

I love nickel plated cases,when we were allowed to shoot handguns (Prior to 1997 ban) nickel cased rounds were hard to come by then,mind you all the .357 rounds we bought always seemed to plated.

[fsvaio]

The UK is very bad for firearm owners. What if you owned a handgun prior to the 1997 ban? Were you allowed to keep it?

[silver760]

No,all handguns were registered they had to be handed to the police who gave a nominal £400,irrespective of what it was.Allot of my friends had firearms with sentimental value,they managed to send them to friends in gun friendly countries or they sent them to the isle od Wight where this crazy law does not apply (Then,dont know about now) allot of guns went "missing" during the collection W234kers taking away a legal right overnight without consulting the public,all because of ONE event

[zzedfg]

What event caused this? And, wow, what are your knife laws like then?

[silver760]

The Dunblane shooting 1996 Thoma Hamilton killed 16 kids,one event and the knee jerk law makers thought they would win some votes by banning handguns.Since the ban in 1997 guncrime has increased by 80% with more crimes involving guns than the US.Knives! since 2006 they have banned the sale of sharp objects to under 18's including scissors,craft knives,a young friend of mine had to prove his age to buy a fork,I kid you not,none of this does anything to combat crime,just makes more crims

[fsvaio]

I would hate to live in the UK, the politicians make it a criminal haven.

[GunFreak270]

THAT BULLET LOOKED LIKE IT CAME OUT OF A CATALOG!! well done. 5/5!

[Blk05titan26]

man that is awesome kinetic energy

[curtispa]

y is it u cant find these then ?

[robin6512]

impressive that is, obi wan.

that thing is a real stopper.

5 stars

[ghostrider1krr]

Seems like the .40 rounds hit a lot harder than the 9mm rounds in your tests.

[tnoutdoors9]

They are so far. Wait until you see the 165 gr Gold Dot....forthcoming.

[tabre]

.40 S&W is an awesome caliber. The kinetic energy it delivers for the size and weight of the cartridge is just amazing.

[tnoutdoors9]

I agree. The .40 is growing on me FAST.

[tnoutdoors9]

Ok....serious question for everyone....during the slow-motion segment, from 2:56 to 2:57. Did you notice the denim moved and jug started to cave in, BEFORE the bullet hit? What happened there? I noticed this during the slow motion edit and was curious.

[Forgoten214]

@tnoutdoors9

Yes, I believe it to be the camera lagging abit behind because of the speed of the bullet. I think that you didn't see the strike until after because of the camera.

I could be totally off but just my opinion.

[tnoutdoors9]

I don't see how that could happen with digital. Is there a pressure wave, etc. that impacts just prior to the bullet?

[Forgoten214]

@tnoutdoors9

Yea It looks like a pressure wave. But its really hard to tell. I'm not really a expert lol. But I agree that it looks like the impact is happening before the bullet arrives.

[ghostrider1krr]

I think that the 1st jug was just shaking in fear due to the thumpin that the HST was about to give it !!!

[theKGB65]

I wanted to comment on that also. After \watching several high speed video recordings it seems common for the pressure wave to pass the bullet. When I get too close to the chronograph with my 500 Magnum the shock wave is recorded before the bullet arrives and the displayed velocity in tn the thousands of feet per second.

[tnoutdoors9]

I agree with your assessment, thanks.

[robin6512]

don't know if its true or not , but someone told me that there is some kind of an airbubbel in front of the HP and that is what causes a shockwave in front of the bullet.

[40CALGLOCKMAN]

good work buddy 5**

[xxxlotus000]

I'm always amazed at the size of the cavity in those JHP's. They look like the open-end of a bucket, for goodness' sake.

Another great vid, TN.

[Forgoten214]

That walmart water will give u cancer.

[valroadie]

i like your hexagon nail cutting haha

seriously though, GREAT round, i use it every day. my G23 LOVES it! :D

[malro67]

awesome video! my girlfriend just watched this with me, now she wants some of those for a stocking stuffer lol.

[tnoutdoors9]

Well, then you have the perfect girlfriend. She watches gun videos with you, and wants ammo for Christmas. Sounds like the basis for a good country song!

[glock10mm]

Nice

[NIKON777]

Excellent. How did it compare to the 9mm version?

[tnoutdoors9]

Huh I posted a response...where did it go?

124 +P was 11" and .75

147 was 12.5" and .75

[Forgoten214]

@tnoutdoors9

What do you think is move devastating? The .40 or the 9mm version?

[tnoutdoors9]

Between the three HST tests I've posted to date, the .40 180 gr, with the 9mm 147 being second.

[Forgoten214]

@tnoutdoors9

How about the .45 ACP HSTs in 230 GR? Regular and +P? Have you tested those?

Have you tested the Gold Dots in .45, .40 and 9mm?

How does the Gold dots compare to the HSTs? What do you like better?

What is your personal choice for carry as of today?

=)

[tnoutdoors9]

Have not tested any .45 ACP. There are two 9mm Gold Dot tests on my channel. I carry the Glock 19, with the Gold Dot 124 +P and 147 HST being my primary carry. I like certain aspects of both, so it's a toss up between the two. The 147 HST usually rides in colder weather.

[Forgoten214]

@tnoutdoors9

Ahh I see, I would really love to see some .45 ACP tests out of a 1911 or Glock 21. May I ask why you carry a 9mm and not .40? I wish there was more 9mm vs .40 videos. I would really like a detailed explanation to why I should spend almost twice the price per box to shoot .40 over 9mm. Is it that much better? I'm just having a hard time understanding the .40 hype myself.

[tnoutdoors9]

I actually don't own a .40 at present, I'm borrowing the G22 for these tests. I do plan to buy one soon. This is an endless debate, and can also toss the .45 into the mix. For me, the 9mm is more controllable for multiple, rapid shots. Yes, ammo is cheaper. Is the 9mm just as effective as the .40? Those who have observed autopsies will say that you really can't tell much difference.

[ghostrider1krr]

The difference is that the HST expanded just as large and penetrated an additional 4 or 5" AFTER going through 4 layers of denim! If you shot the GD 9mm through denim is would have expanded < than .6". If you shot the .40 HST without denim, it would have been .90+" Got to compare apples to apples.

[1faSStchevy]

Wow 2nd veiw. I feel special. Thanks for doing a .40 test with the HST!