Mosaic News - 11/19/09: World News From The Middle East

[seannouri]

all this so few fags can make porno movies in israeli nightclubs, whatta freedom u guys have.

[seannouri]

my ppl used to own half the world, does that mean we can take it all again and claim to have control rights over it? Of course not, not only that, but while we're totally surrounded, even if we make our own space program, nuclear, or health programs, crimanls think pretend they are legitimate, th us gives them support, and they try to stop iran from regular peaceful activity and threaten Iranian's and Arabs existence by supporting their criminals.

[abbienetvision]

sean,

Let's begin with history, Canada never owned half the world, as you seem to believe!

I looked at your channel and saw that you love Ahmanadijine, so why don't you go live in Iraq, with your family?

I am sure that nobody in Canada would cry if you left for your homeland.

[seannouri]

i just get pissed when i see ppl gettin rich just cause of wearin suits and pretendin to be ateheist or jewish and getting free land and already built home and billions in aid from usa, while the owners of those land and homes r made homeless in front of their kids--best case scenario.

[seannouri]

If bunch of ppl who r part of a massive crime (like causing a war in which innocnt jews or arabs or n e one might die in) claim they feel threatened and at times their victims attack them back, who cares about those criminals, and so what if the Arab Palistinian's culture doesn't seem impressive compared to all the hollywood efforts that Isreal gets.

[seannouri]

What holocast, there was a war and 60 Million died, wo why is Israel as an entity allowed to exist over top of Palistinian ppl that were already there on settled land?

[abbienetvision]

sean,

The palis came after the Jews had developed the land.

If Israel had been created by the Balfour Declaration, the holocaust would never have happened.

Repeating lies, does not make it true.

[seannouri]

y r these heartless sophisticated criminals allowed to hide behind a religion,+their crimes against village arabs are allowed to go on as a last doomed to fail effort at western influence by force in the east.Da criminals who r pretending to be religous should just be forced off the stolen Palistinian land.There were jew, muslim, christian, atheist palistinians B4 this holocast on Jesus's ppl, in Palistine which the disgraced colonialists renamed Israel and tried to ignore arab's rights illegaly

[abbienetvision]

sean,

Your history is based on lies. The Palis were never in Israel for any period of time. In fact, in the late 1800s the land was barren, as written by Siebald Rieter, Johann Tucker, Arnold Van Harff,Father Michael Nuad, Martin Kabatnik,Felix Fabri, Count Constantine Francois Volney,Alphonse de Lamartine, Mark Twain,Sir George Gawler, Sir George Adam Smith,Edward Robinson.

The palis moved to camps when the Arab leaders told them too.

The crimes are the palis, not the Jews.

[djmakerz]

umm why isn't this news on cnn?

[abbienetvision]

This is the news from the sidebar:

"Suicide bomber in Pakistan kills 19 at courthouse in Peshawar," Dubai TV, UAE

"Saudi soldier killed in clashes in Yemen," Al Arabiya TV, UAE

WTF does this have to do with Israel????

[abbienetvision]

Still waiting for justonemorename to prove that there is a Jewish lobby in UK...I won't hold my breath, since proving lies is very difficult.

[psychospores]

Abbie, Justonemorename does a horrible job of arguing any point, so allow me. There is a Jewish lobby in the UK, as there is in the US, as lobby-groups are part of the democratic process. I believe that Israel relies very heavily on their powers of influence in Washington and London because it is necessary for the country's existence. There is nothing wrong with special interest groups making their wishes known. Abbie, British officials were interviewed in this very report ...

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

Your friend, justonemorename, wrote on this page, "The Fact remains ..If Israel was dealt with ..there would be no Terrorism. That is the Point."

My response was that looking at the side bar and the two main stories, they are:

"Suicide bomber in Pakistan kills 19 at courthouse in Peshawar," Dubai TV, UAE

"Saudi soldier killed in clashes in Yemen," Al Arabiya TV, UAE

WTF does this have to do with Israel????

Where does Israel stand in these problems, and see how Just hates Jews.

[psychospores]

why would they go on record, putting their sanity and credibility on the line, to talk about a mythical organization? Do you not understand how politics work? For better or worse, the Israel Lobby is a very real thing and I believe that it does have an impact on western policy.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

I have read your comments, but would like to point out again that there is no Jewish lobby in the UK. I cannot say the same about USA, thank G-d, but UK just doesn't have one.

Facts are indisputable.

If UK had an Israeli lobby, do you think the call for Sharia would come weekly, or would the lobby stop it?

[psychospores]

The broadcast mentioned here, "Inside Britain's Israel Lobby," provided a lot of weak evidence. That said, I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that there is a network of wealthy Brits with strong ties to Israel that use their "donations" to support politicians that are willing to benefit their interests. It is like lobbying, only the middle man, the lobbyist, is cut out of the process.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

You may be right about the donations, but the fact remains that there is no Jewish lobby, by name is England. At least we are on the same page now.

The claim is that there is a British Israeli lobby, and that is just untrue, as you have stated; and I agree.

The only reason I brought Justonemore into the conv, is due to your comment that he doesn't explain things well, but I disagree. He has blamed all the world's problems on Israel, in clear text.

[psychospores]

As for your question, I'm not really sure how it connects to what we're talking about. Have you been stealing my mushrooms?

As for everything Justonemorename says, I am not picking up that argument. That person is a little nuts. Last week, he/she called me a Jew just for saying she/he was being hard on Israel. I bet you used to think I was a Muslim ...

[psychospores]

Justonemorename also blamed Israel (or maybe just "the Jews" in general) for the crisis in Darfur.

[abbienetvision]

psych,

If I believed you were a Muslim, I would have stated it...did I state it? I am not very shy.

I don't think you are a Muslim, since you have a good sense of humor, something the Muslims are lacking.

Still laughing about your comment on Jim Morrison and your trip :0)

Send me some CID, no shrooms, they really mess me up...lol.

[psychospores]

I can see how Muslims might not find YOUR jokes very funny since much of what you say is at their expense. I understand that you feel that you are often attacked, both verbally and physically, by Muslims. But don't you think your antagonism is only worsening the problem? And the same could be said to Muslims who categorically hate Jews. We are all going to have to share this world, don't you think that speaking so badly about over a billion people is counterproductive? Jim wants to know.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

I actually do not joke much on youtube, but when faced with hatred that refuses to see reason, I lose patience.

The palis and others want to claim the rights to law under Geneva convention, however, they forfeited their rights by not abiding to it themselves.

Gilad Shalit has been illegally held for over 3 yrs, his parents tortured by mental agony, the hatred taught to children, the Hamasnicks dressing as civilians, and more.

The convention must be followed by all; not only Israel.

[seannouri]

what du expect the children to learn other than some hatred after having their homes razed and seeing their parents struggle homeless while distraught and robbed of life and land.

[abbienetvision]

sean,

Do Jews learn to hate Germans? NO

Were the Jews killed in the Holocaust? YES

You have no point, since teaching hatred does nothing but add to violence and is in clear violation of international laws.

[seannouri]

why r u insistent on ignoring/tolerating those zionist israelis who are displaying hatred and commiting crimes against human beings. Just because the crime started in the past and is ongoing, that doesn't mean it should be constantly allowed to happen by illegal american/british/israeli force of weapons, and provoking innocent, palistinians some of whom might obviously be criminals as well.

[seannouri]

abbienetvision - how could the lands have been barren? I've never heard about that yet, perhaps parts of Palestine region was less developed like pastures or desert but since there are very old cities that always had inhabitants, i doubt seriously what u say. Also the world almanac shows 400 000 more Jews in 1949 than in 1940 i read somewhere, i didn' yet check it myself, but all facts, history, plus west-supported Israel aggression on poor arabs r all very telling signs of the truth.

[psychospores]

Abbie, why do you only see hate when it is directed at you? Don't you know that your comments are hateful too? You are so quick to point out everything that Muslims or Palestinians do wrong, but you don't seem to be willing to hear their side of the story. I understand that Israel feels it is under constant attack, so do Palestinians. All of that hate-speech that offends you so deeply is a mirror image of what you are saying about Muslims.

[psychospores]

I agree that everyone should have to comply with the Geneva conventions, but one group refusing to do so does not give a free pass to the other side to follow suit. That is a slippery slope to complete lawlessness. When a person breaks the law, the police don't get to say "well, he was doing something wrong so we roughed him up a bit and stole his car." Why can't Israel be the bigger people? Why can't they treat the Palestinians with more patience?

[psychospores]

Israels reactions to Palestinian aggression are completely disproportionate to what they're dealing with. Take the rocket fire, which you are so upset about. Those rockets are crap. They can't be aimed and they usually don't hit anything or anyone. But then Israel turns around and shells a neighbourhood with phosphorus shells and wonders why that just leads to more rockets. And it is common sense that in order for there to be peace EVER, settlement expansion NEEDS to STOP!

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

Israel did not act disproportionaly. If Israel had sent back 17,000 rockets without aim, you would be correct, but that is not what happened.

You also ignore the hundred of suicide bombing attacks prior to the rocket fire, which left over 1,000 Israeli children dead and thousands disabled.

The rockets were only the latest attempt to kill the Israelis. These rockets are only used by terrorists, since they are not exact in aim.

Hamas does not hide their desire to see all Jews&Xtains dead

[psychospores]

Again, you are seeing your dead children and not theirs. Where do you get 1,000 from anyway? It seems somewhat exaggerated. Cite a source? Fine, include the suicide bombings. The reaction is still disproportionate. Why don't we do some homework? You look up how many Israelis have been killed by Palestinians in the last ... let's say 10 years, and I will look up the Palestinian death toll. Then we will both use one word that describes the comparison of the numbers.

[psychospores]

Actually, it seems a little morbid to spend that much time counting dead people to prove a point. I scratch that challenge. But I would be willing to wager that the Palestian death toll would be significantly higher. And it's more than just deaths, there are issues like displacement, quality of life and a lack of opportunities for Palestinians.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

Do you think the Israelis in southern Israel had any type of quality of life, when rockets were being fired 24/7, and they had 15 seconds to get to a shelter?

What is worse for quality, one month of terror or 9 yrs?

Do you know that the kids from these areas, even when taken out, still hear sirens, still are scared and all have shock syndrome?

How much safety would you feel, if you knew you could walk outside and have a rocket fall on you or be blown up? This is how Israelis live.

[psychospores]

That is terrible. All of it. My ex-boyfriend's sister, who is Jewish and visits family in Israel yearly, was in Israel during the 2006 war with Lebanon. When she got back to Canada she wrote a piece for a university newspaper about what it was like to hear rockets being fired over your head, and to be afraid to go to certain places. A lot of people hated her for it and called her a Zionist. That is proof of the defensiveness of the situation.

[psychospores]

Don't you see that the Palestinians suffer too? You are each the cause of one another's suffering. You have the ability to stop hurting each other and yet both sides continue to make this worse.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

If you can find either tv shows in Israel that call for killing pali, Jewish men that killed palis as heroes, or school books that have rewritten history than there would be some equality.

Palis say in their voices, that peace is not the goal, it is killing all Jews and Xtains in the WORLD. Israel is just the beginning.

To deny truth is not helping anyone, especially the palis.

[abbienetvision]

psy,

Settlements do not need to stop,but you need to stop with your clear hatred.

[psychospores]

What???

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

So was the world reaction to the Nazis also disproportionate? Seems you must believe so, or are you just using this against Israel, as an anti-Semite?

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

You are incorrect, by Hamas's refusing to follow any laws in the Geneva Convention, they cannot use it as defense.

Gilad Shalit has been held prisoner for over 3 yrs, without even one visitor, possibly tortured and his parents are tortured daily.

To claim the white phosphorus was illegal, is to rewrite legality yourself.

It was used as a smoke block, nothing more, and there are claims of broken bones from its use, which is impossible.

To believe Pallywood is your downfall.

[psychospores]

Okay, whatever. I've seen video footage of the blasts. Those Palestinians are sure good at special effects.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

So 8 yrs and 17,000 rockets was not patient enough for you?

Over 1 million Israelis were within rocket fire and to claim the rockets are not deadly or not weapons, is to lie.

Did you want us to wait till the entire population of Israel was in rocket fire range?

[psychospores]

No. I want you to listen to the concerns of the Palestinians and make an honest effort to make steps toward peace. It seems that both sides are so defensive about who is really in the wrong that they have lost all ability to take criticism, and that is creating an atmosphere where negotiations are completely impossible. Both sides need to let their guard down. One side is going to have to take a few punches without retaliating, and Israel is the stronger of the two.

[abbienetvision]

8,341 Israelis wounded in terror attacks

2001-2007

[psychospores]

Okay, here is what I found. Israelis killed from September 29, 2000 until present: 1,072. Palestinians killed from September 29, 2000 until present: 6,348. And my word: Disproportionate.

[abbienetvision]

psy,

Did you find this on the hamas website? lets see the link.

[abbienetvision]

psy,

The palis are killed by their own actions, haven't you seen all the Fatah members killed by Hamas, the booby traps, the hiding rockets in houses?

Israel warned the palis, many times, not only hamas to stop rockets, but to leave places which were in harms way.

The Palis do not call or send flyers, their goal is to kill as many civilians as they can, especially kids and women.

To compare Israel to these terrorists is like saying only 3,000 died in 9/11, so let's not go to war.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

The palis have had every chance over and over to have their own state, in 1948, & again and again.

Every attempt at peace has resulted in more death to Israelis.

W.Bank, in fact, was taken by force, illegally, by Jordan. It was never recognized as a Jordanian territory and from 1949-1967, they had no Israeli intervention, so why didn't they create a state? It is because they already have one...it is called Jordan!

[psychospores]

I am critical of Israel. I am annoyed with Israel. I am annoyed with the Palestinians too. I don't hate either side.

And Gilad Shalit ... look, when I first heard about Hamas releasing the video of him, I pictured his mother, after all of the news cameras left, watching the video of her son over and over again. Because that's what I would do. And that would be torture. And there is no way I can express how sad that thought makes me. But that doesn't change the rest of the situation.

[abbienetvision]

psy,

I was a left wing israeli, went to peace now rallies and followed the peace process as I traveled the world.

I worked for Peres in 1996.

The labor party in Israel was huge and took the prime minister position many times over our history.

The last election shows clearly that many Israelis like myself, had to open their eyes to the truth...the Palis do not desire peace.

When you realize this truth, your caring for Palis goes way down. The palis have, by their actions, lost so many supporters

[psychospores]

And the Israelis have by their actions lost many supporters.

I doubt you held any serious position under Peres. If you did, you wouldn't be arguing with nobodies on YouTube and you would be much better at providing obscure, precise information instead of constantly upholding Gilad Shalit. You probably wouldn't be joking around about Acid on the internet either.

Who are you to preach to me about truth? You have lied to me about myself. I am beginning to think your lying is pathological.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

Here is the way we live in Israel, for years:v=N1MbOgF9J7o

Here is a Pali that was part of a terror group, but tells the truth now:

v=O2wvqDfitLY

Ignoring the truth and lying is not helping you. You know nothing about me, only that I hate terrorists and am trying to fight the anti Israel propaganda that you and people like you spread.

[abbienetvision]

psych,

If we go back to the original discussion though, you will see clearly that this is a complete fabrication, since UK has no Israeli lobby.

UK channel 4's claim that there is one is a bold face lie and nothing more.

[psychospores]

Right. Okay. Well ... "bold faced lie" is a bit strong. There is no official organization known as the Israel Lobby in the UK, and there is no network existing on paper that could be considered a lobby group. But in Britain a lot of politicians are bought with personal donations from people who happen to be members of Friends of Israel. That is my official position on that until further notice.

[abbienetvision]

psy,

Didn't you previously say that there was a lobby in UK and that Channel 4 could not lie? Now you say there is not a lobby?

It is hard to debate, when you cannot keep your views continuously, but change them every few comments.

Find someone that loves to play games, because I am not the person for you to write with, my views are unchanging and my time is worth more than your ups and downs, changing ideas, and not saying anything clearly.

[psychospores]

No. I said that British officials wouldn't talk about it openly if they didn't believe it to be true. I did say there was an Israel Lobby, and in a way there is. just not on paper.

[abbienetvision]

psyc,

As for the sanity and credibility, unfortunately, this is not the worst of those that have lost both of these by pure hatred and lies.

As an example, just look at the Swedish claim that Israel stole organs from Palis in Gaza. The claims against Israel are just that, claims, with no basis and no truth, but lots of people think that they are still credible sources.

Lots of Muslims still blame Al-Dura on Israel, when it has been proven, after 7 yrs, that Israel was not to blame in any way.

[needbailout]

Since the terrorist attacks of Sept 11, 2001, world events, and in particular in the Middle East, show a growing unrest and instability between Modern Zionism and the Arabic World. This is completely in line with the call for a Third World War to be fought between the two, and their allies on both sides. This Third World War is still to come, and recent events show us that it is not far off.

[psychospores]

I think you are right in some ways about that, but I think the problem is bigger than just Zionism and the Arab World. The various conflicts between Middle Eastern states and their alliances with the periphery are exacerbated by mulitiple religious, political, economic, historical, territorial, etc. etc. etc. problems which I think are symptomatic of a world that has developed unequally due to the selfish interests of a few determining the fate of much of the world. Now there is a backlash.

[abbienetvision]

psycho,

Let's just look at the Saudi/Yemen problem where there is death daily.

Israel is not in this picture either, and whether Israel existed or not, the border fight between these countries would continue.

Denying this and placing blame on Israel, is ridiculous.

[psychospores]

I agree. I wasn't blaming Israel.

[abbienetvision]

just,

There is an article by an American Muslim who knew Hassan and even prayed with him, that says that the killings were religiously motivated.

Huffington Post, Nov.6, a-muslim-soldiers-view

[abbienetvision]

Chad is where the genocide is happening as we are on youtube. The Muslims are killing everyone there that is not Muslims.

Thanks for bringing more Muslim terrorism into the conversation.

[abbienetvision]

just,

Again you make a statement and then cannot back it up, here is what you wrote: "christians are riding through towns on tanks ..with Jesus Kills Allah writen in red letters on the side and killing anyone who throws stones."

Christians you mention (plural)meaning more than one. Now you are saying something different...so typical.

[psychospores]

Abbie,

I have read the same thing.  This happened in Iraq years ago, and the quote I saw was "Jesus killed Mohammed," written in Arabic in red letters.

[abbienetvision]

just,

Where have you seen Xtains on tanks with Jesus kills Allah? I have never seen that.

[abbienetvision]

just,

Muslims throughout the world are learning to kill infidels, and there are over a billion of them who desire death of infidels to go to heaven.

Jews do not kill to go to heaven, only Muslims do that.

Your turn again.

[abbienetvision]

just,

There is no Jewish lobby in UK, even though you choose to repeat the lie, doesn't make it true.

BTW, you know that Fort Hood was the second Muslim terrorist who shot army men this year, right?

[abbienetvision]

Britain's Channel 4, claiming that UK has a pro-Israeli lobby, is complete bs and has been debunked.

How typical of Linktv to put that report here.

But the Fort Hood American Muslim that killed 13, still goes ignored by Link, maybe they should show more about the Muslims screaming for death to USA, right in USA. Or anywhere else in the world where has allowed these guests in.