I think you're missing his point. Being a black man is a different reality than being a white man. We have different histories, different associations and different power struggles. In the end, reality is constant, but our own subjective realities (ie: our consciousness) is affected by our given circumstances.
@grant1r The situation is a simple one and not at all complex! Blacks are human and have always been. Since that is true, their reactions and actions are to be expected considering the circumstances. In other words, when whites see blacks as fully human, the magnitude gap will narrow. That is all.
The poster before said everyone has the same reality. I said Baldwin was using reality as a perception based on various circumstances. Seeing the other as human allows us to enjoy the other person's ethnical, social and cultural differences. Not being empathetic with fellow humans is destructive. But there's still a difference in tendency in both nature and nurture.
@grant1r I majored in Philosophy and although I was always at the top of my class, I would often get into it with my Profs because I would refute the supposed complexity of many views and theories. Ethics is not a complex subject and should be simplified to its core: If you don't like it and would consider it demeaning , chances r, other human beings will also. In other words again, MOST people do not enjoy being water hosed, beaten to a pulp or discriminated against. It is NOT complex
@REASONINFUSION It doesn't take a philosopher either to note that black people and white people have different identities that cannot be removed by being respectful towards one another. There's also different identities amongst these groups by geography, as Baldwin points out.
We were not talking about ethics, we were talking about the posters use of the term reality. Experience influences us, shapes our reality, whether it is diplomatic and civil or violent and discriminating.
@grant1r Identities have nothing to do with weather or not it hurts to be hit with a club, so I can assume you are one of those who think being enslaved was "good" for blacks. People struggle for many reasons, but they are reasons that can be found amongst all humans black or white. George Washington said HIMSELF that he feared being treated by the british how HE treated blacks. Same fear; different races. The separation you are trying to find is not there, still you search.
@grant1r 2) claiming that certain groups are, in Foucault's words, "the other" helps to dehumanize them and was best done by the Nazis and American racial "scientists". That is what anti-black racism was about and what gives it its long shelf life.
Good for Foucault. Nazis went further, and considered all races as in a violent competition, with the purest the Nordic. I don't see race as a competition, I see it as a natural and cultural variety with an independant identity. You're making a judgment of natural rights whereas I'm making a comparison of ethnicity and culture. Statistics show that groups of people are different, and recognizing this doesn't make you racist, it makes you informed.
@grant1r 2) Yes, good for Foucault in figuring out the one thing you seem to like avoiding. As for the nazies going further, it is obvious you don't know what the "great american icons" also assumed which was the exact same thing as hitler! Reading Hume and Locke as well as Tom Jefferson would go a long way to clear that up for you. You may also benefit from reading about the american "scientific racism" Hitler learned so much from. Reading and study is still legal ya know?
@grant1r 3) it is also a popular thing for people to harp on differences when they think their own will come out on top. I find that to be a popular thing with, ah, whites lets say. Funny that the differences they point out rarely biological or fixed, but merely the result of interests and circumstances. I am black and find the wild actions of many drunk whites vomit inducing. I do not think it is however, a fixed trait. I also don't think whites are cannibals even though the last one
@grant1r 4) In america was. As for the comparisons of culture and ethnicity, what culture do you refer to? One that sniffs meth? One that is most likely to do hard drugs? One that boasts of the most serial killers? And ethnicity, which one since prior to 1500s people did not relate to being "white" as much as their nation. The France hated the English and considered them dirty and cognitively challenged. The differences u mention are non existent or nothing to brag about actually.
Listen to some Public Enemy and tell me if you'd ever imagine a young adult who is white from a middle class family being able to write about the same subject and express it in the same manner. Oh yes, but your professor told you that everyone and everything is the same. Your community college taught you well.
@grant1r The fact that you have assumed I went to a community college exposed you as the cracker I rightfully guessed you were. See how obvious you people are? Amazing lol. Now, my professor did not have to tell me anything since like so many blacks, I was a prodigy having been home schooled until 7th grade. I had been a Philosophy scholar long before college in other words, I was young when I discovered whites like you needed discrimination so your mediocre truth would not be exposed
Being so open to egalitarian principles, why do you hold so much vitriol against whites? I think you're the racist. I was enjoying the debate until you showed up.
@grant1r People like you usually enjoy debates that you can dominate. If I was a racist, I would say that was your nature since so many whites are the same way. Next, I have NO "vitriol" against whites in the least! My favorite person in history in John Brown. Next is Malcolm X who by the way also said openly he love John Brown. I also think very highly of Thomas Paine who your people do not mention much at all and he was the best of the "founding fathers".
@grant1r 2) I love Tim Wise and have no time for Denzel Washinton. I like Sean Penn much more than almost every black actor who does nothing but collect checks. Racism is a waste and irrational. You said I went to a community college (nothing wrong with that) in a manner that is found amongst "soft bigots". I know the kind and you are that. I have "vitriol" towards you and not those whites who would see you as trash.
look at the attitude this speaker has to dale with...Baldwin we ALL have the SAME reality. Thank God Martin Luther King lead the charge.
jackxbf1 2 months ago
@jackxbf1
I think you're missing his point. Being a black man is a different reality than being a white man. We have different histories, different associations and different power struggles. In the end, reality is constant, but our own subjective realities (ie: our consciousness) is affected by our given circumstances.
grant1r 2 days ago
@grant1r The situation is a simple one and not at all complex! Blacks are human and have always been. Since that is true, their reactions and actions are to be expected considering the circumstances. In other words, when whites see blacks as fully human, the magnitude gap will narrow. That is all.
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@REASONINFUSION
The poster before said everyone has the same reality. I said Baldwin was using reality as a perception based on various circumstances. Seeing the other as human allows us to enjoy the other person's ethnical, social and cultural differences. Not being empathetic with fellow humans is destructive. But there's still a difference in tendency in both nature and nurture.
grant1r 2 days ago
@grant1r I majored in Philosophy and although I was always at the top of my class, I would often get into it with my Profs because I would refute the supposed complexity of many views and theories. Ethics is not a complex subject and should be simplified to its core: If you don't like it and would consider it demeaning , chances r, other human beings will also. In other words again, MOST people do not enjoy being water hosed, beaten to a pulp or discriminated against. It is NOT complex
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@REASONINFUSION It doesn't take a philosopher either to note that black people and white people have different identities that cannot be removed by being respectful towards one another. There's also different identities amongst these groups by geography, as Baldwin points out.
We were not talking about ethics, we were talking about the posters use of the term reality. Experience influences us, shapes our reality, whether it is diplomatic and civil or violent and discriminating.
grant1r 2 days ago
@grant1r Identities have nothing to do with weather or not it hurts to be hit with a club, so I can assume you are one of those who think being enslaved was "good" for blacks. People struggle for many reasons, but they are reasons that can be found amongst all humans black or white. George Washington said HIMSELF that he feared being treated by the british how HE treated blacks. Same fear; different races. The separation you are trying to find is not there, still you search.
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@grant1r 2) claiming that certain groups are, in Foucault's words, "the other" helps to dehumanize them and was best done by the Nazis and American racial "scientists". That is what anti-black racism was about and what gives it its long shelf life.
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@REASONINFUSION
Good for Foucault. Nazis went further, and considered all races as in a violent competition, with the purest the Nordic. I don't see race as a competition, I see it as a natural and cultural variety with an independant identity. You're making a judgment of natural rights whereas I'm making a comparison of ethnicity and culture. Statistics show that groups of people are different, and recognizing this doesn't make you racist, it makes you informed.
grant1r 2 days ago
@grant1r 2) Yes, good for Foucault in figuring out the one thing you seem to like avoiding. As for the nazies going further, it is obvious you don't know what the "great american icons" also assumed which was the exact same thing as hitler! Reading Hume and Locke as well as Tom Jefferson would go a long way to clear that up for you. You may also benefit from reading about the american "scientific racism" Hitler learned so much from. Reading and study is still legal ya know?
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@grant1r 3) it is also a popular thing for people to harp on differences when they think their own will come out on top. I find that to be a popular thing with, ah, whites lets say. Funny that the differences they point out rarely biological or fixed, but merely the result of interests and circumstances. I am black and find the wild actions of many drunk whites vomit inducing. I do not think it is however, a fixed trait. I also don't think whites are cannibals even though the last one
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@grant1r 4) In america was. As for the comparisons of culture and ethnicity, what culture do you refer to? One that sniffs meth? One that is most likely to do hard drugs? One that boasts of the most serial killers? And ethnicity, which one since prior to 1500s people did not relate to being "white" as much as their nation. The France hated the English and considered them dirty and cognitively challenged. The differences u mention are non existent or nothing to brag about actually.
REASONINFUSION 2 days ago
@REASONINFUSION
Listen to some Public Enemy and tell me if you'd ever imagine a young adult who is white from a middle class family being able to write about the same subject and express it in the same manner. Oh yes, but your professor told you that everyone and everything is the same. Your community college taught you well.
grant1r 2 days ago
@grant1r The fact that you have assumed I went to a community college exposed you as the cracker I rightfully guessed you were. See how obvious you people are? Amazing lol. Now, my professor did not have to tell me anything since like so many blacks, I was a prodigy having been home schooled until 7th grade. I had been a Philosophy scholar long before college in other words, I was young when I discovered whites like you needed discrimination so your mediocre truth would not be exposed
REASONINFUSION 1 day ago
@REASONINFUSION
Being so open to egalitarian principles, why do you hold so much vitriol against whites? I think you're the racist. I was enjoying the debate until you showed up.
grant1r 1 day ago
@grant1r People like you usually enjoy debates that you can dominate. If I was a racist, I would say that was your nature since so many whites are the same way. Next, I have NO "vitriol" against whites in the least! My favorite person in history in John Brown. Next is Malcolm X who by the way also said openly he love John Brown. I also think very highly of Thomas Paine who your people do not mention much at all and he was the best of the "founding fathers".
REASONINFUSION 1 day ago
@grant1r 2) I love Tim Wise and have no time for Denzel Washinton. I like Sean Penn much more than almost every black actor who does nothing but collect checks. Racism is a waste and irrational. You said I went to a community college (nothing wrong with that) in a manner that is found amongst "soft bigots". I know the kind and you are that. I have "vitriol" towards you and not those whites who would see you as trash.
REASONINFUSION 1 day ago
@grant1r 2) The college I went to was Rutgers and I added to my income by tutoring YOUR people in Existentialism.
REASONINFUSION 1 day ago
Smart Baldwin
Jeffyli 9 months ago
thought-provoking stuff.
xjaskix 9 months ago