EOGD rant 1

[NoirFelis]

A few questions: How much money did you pay to join? How long where you in the organization?

[baphomet257]

@NoirFelis -- Both are good questions. As for how much I paid: I honestly can not recall. As for how long I was "in?" Well, that's hard to say as there was no real contact with me past the first mailing and Bobby Zink's continual demands for more money.

[NoirFelis]

It sounds like you really needed to be challenged more. I hope you are on the way to find whatever path that entails.

[baphomet257]

@NoirFelis -- I have decided that the path of the true magus is solitary or with one or two co-workers. Orders are political, social, and economic animals that, like men, have a brief span of time upon this earth and then die. What remains is the rotting carcass and bones; those who play with such things shouldn't be surprised when they get sick. ;-)

[aharonyakov7]

The Auriel temple did exist, and it is where I was initiated. 2 months later it was closed, and I believe it is probably due to some disagreement with Zink and his worshipers. Have you tried the HOGD?

[baphomet257]

@aharonyakov7 I've looked at HOGD and it seems good. Unfortunately there isn't a nearby temple as far as I can tell.

[aharonyakov7]

That was my temple when they closed Auriel I had nothing, and my proctors fell out of communication as well. I'm sure "they went dark" was simply a lame excuse for the people there not being worshipers of Zink.

[LynneaUrania]

I can understand these feelings. My exit from what would become the EOGD was based upon other issues concerning whether the practical aspects of the order were right for me at all. Of course, issues like attempts to proselytize me to Catholicism and non-acceptance of my transition didn't help either. But on the most part, my experience was a positive one. I just couldn't conscientiously go further and I remain solitary today.

[SuperSimba6]

I found this video from a reference on the hermetic order of golden dawn (the one based in england) website. I think you should do a bit of research into that one it seems far more legit then the eogd. However i understand if you never try another order, i also have "taste tested" various so called magical groups out there. My response to this sort of experience is to get up and try something else, eventually you will find what you seek.

[baphomet257]

@SuperSimba6 - Ah, yes. Thanks. I was really looking to see how a real Golden Dawn temple operates. As it stands, myself and a few friends are tossing about the idea of getting the robes, wands, and other tools ready and doing it ourself. I've been doing GD-style magick for over 20 years now so this shouldn't be too big a stretch. :)

[baphomet257]

@RobertZink120 - roflmao. You'll rot in Hell. ;-)

[baphomet257]

@RobertZink120 - roflmao. You'll rot in Hell. ;-)

[Jordan76Br]

I understand your frustrations. However, I'd like to point out for your information that the organization called the EOGD has difficulty in operating and because of the man called Robert Zink. While certain, not all, other GD leaders are far from having their hands clean, it seems this man collects most of money the order takes in leaving the temples to have to pay for themselves. I once caught him yelling at a member because she payed dues to the Temple of Isis instead of him. Blame him.

[Tangwystel]

I'm glad you posted this. Last winter, I researched this group and other GD temples. Unfortunately, I got a bad feeling about most of them, and the ones I didn't have red flags on did not return my correspondence. I am currently a member of the BOTA and have had a 100% positive experience with that group, but it is entirely home study based for me. I was hoping for a more ritual based practice. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and warning off others who might also get scammed.

[Tangwystel]

I'm glad you posted this. Last winter, I researched this group and other GD temples. Unfortunately, I got a bad feeling about most of them, and the ones I didn't have red flags on did not return my correspondence. I am currently a member of the BOTA and have had a 100% positive experience with that group, but it is entirely home study based for me. I was hoping for a more ritual based practice. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and warning off others who might also get scammed.

[oldtaboo93]

I see where you're coming from. I was a member in 2006, in the mother temple in Ontario at that time. I did leave, for a variety of reasons. however, for those that live near a temple, paying $120 for a year, of unlimited access to classes, teachers, personal training is well worth it. I see your point, you never got to experience that. I also agree with many of your points. Esp the new age bandwagon. on the other hand, i've met amazing spiritual people there. People I dearly miss.

[KageShadows]

Just study magic and practice esotericism on your own. These groups exploit occult practitioners for money.

[baphomet257]

@KageShadows - I have been studying and practicing for over 20 years. I was looking to receive an initiation in an actual temple. More than anything I wanted to experience an actual Golden Dawn initiation.

[KageShadows]

@baphomet257 I respect that. My comment wasn't addressed to you as much as it was to visitors to your page.

[MrJasonBkn]

your right bro i had the sme probs there just out to sell there books i gues i too have asked some legit questions only to get smart arsed answes back form Pat

[DarkCloud064]

I had similar experience with the temple going "dark" but fortunately I was able to meet my mentor and some other members. We are working on getting the temple back up and going. Everything is volunteer based so things can change often. Everything is based on donations and the small amount of the yearly dues (which per person is only about $120 a year, not exactly a lot to keep a big order going). I am sorry your experience was bad though.

Light in extension

770/RSL

[baphomet257]

@DarkCloud064 - Well, unfortunately, the problem here is that "everything is volunteer based" doesn't include member dues, does it? No, it does not! Since this little episode, I have been looking into the EOGD and Robert Zink. Why does Zink feel the need to jump on every occult / new-age bandwagon?

[baphomet257]

@DarkCloud064 - From Angelology to "The Secret" to various other New Age fads, Robert Zink is doing his utmost to capitalize on the latest trends, whether he believes in them or not. If you'd care to do some research, you'll discover that Robert Zink has a long and checkered past, changing the name of the Order several times over the past several years to avoid his past catching up with him. Look into it.

Also, don't be fooled. 770 is borrowed from the 93 of the OTO!

[Kalistella]

I have to agree with this guy. I also paid my dues and got very little in return. 6 months on, I still have no mentor/proctor or any kind of tutoring. I feel ripped off.

[baphomet257]

@Kalistella Thank you for sharing this, Kalistella. I have been receiving numerous private replies to this, most of them in support. It's a shame to see this happening.

[srd84]

I encourage you to read Prometheus Rising and Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson. Crowley said about the GD, "the Master proved to be no Master, and the Order no Order, but the incarnation of Disorder."

[baphomet257]

I've read both tomes -- many years ago. One must also remember that just because Crowley wrote something doesn't mean it is true.

[pete3great]

Wow, look at these responses! Cultists or sockpuppet accounts? YOU DECIDE!

[baphomet257]

I find the sudden wave of responses, most of them pro-EOGD, astonishing and a bit suspect. I wonder if there was a post in the Yahoo! Golden Dawn e-group?

[aimaelohim]

I think its funny that people act like these Orders give nothing but neg. experiences, the sheer size of them I think proves otherwise. If they were really a fraud or money hungry I don't think that A. they would have survived for so long and B. that they would have grown to have the number of members that they do. The court proceedings were based on the right to preserve the name under public doman, which I think is admirable, its a system like tai chi, or sufism, there shouldn't be a copywrite

[baphomet257]

And I think it's funny how all of these pro-EOGD posts have suddenly appeared, all around the same time.

[widowson]

I think that the fact the Order died in the courts and via dodgy claims of secret master contact & all the rest 100 years ago, and now we have all these modern orders doing EXACTLY the same right now, should give everyone pause to think about what this Order repeatedly produces. Judge not by words....but by works... By the way if you don't believe this read any good history on the GD & then go to Scribd and look up the legal wrangling that has gone on between these various modern GD groups.

[widowson]

I think this guy has every right to have his video rant. It shocks me that all the comments here are so universally against him, and makes me extremely suspicious that we just have a bunch of EOGD fanboys responding. I couldn't agree more with his observations about the flame wars, bickering & backbiting that is going on between the various GD money making schemes. This order died soon after inception because of schismatism & ego & as far as I can see all modern reps go exactly the same way

[guardianmatt]

My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry your experience has not been a pleasant one so far. I have been a member for some time now and it has been an incredible experience for me. I hope you will give it a chance and contact the mother temple in California again.. If you choose not to go down that path then I wish you the best of luck in whatever path you do choose and I hope you find what youre looking for. Peace be upon you.

[aimaelohim]

Its unfortunate this guy didn't have a good experience, however I don't think his experience represents the majority. In fact, it sounds like he was setting himself up for dissapointment by joining a group that was run in a fashion that wasn't compatible with what he wanted. When I read the public forums it seems like most people are very happy with their GD experience.

[baphomet257]

Well, you see, I wasn't setting myself up for disappointment because at the time there WAS a physical temple within driving distance. Funny how, since my video, the EOGD website has removed their link to that temple. Like they realized that false advertising is a bad thing, yes?

[werisetogether1]

I am also very sorry to hear of your situation. Those of us who volunteer for the Order work as hard as we can to help our initiates. We have over 3000 members so sometimes there are mistakes. I would personally be happy to help you remedy this situation if you would like to contact me privatly.

[VHFraterAA]

Greetings; As Imperator of Temple Ptah and an Adept of the EOGD I feel it is my personal obligation to offer you a formal apology on behalf of the Order and the Adept Body. There were over a hundred members which had to be "relocated" to assure their continued success in our Order and unfortunatly in any organization you can never satisfy all of the people 100% of the time.  That said to date you are the only one to have posted a complaint and for your dis-satisfaction I am greatly sorry.

[VHFraterAA]

Please let me know if there is something I can do to help your discomfort and let me continiue to offer an open ear to future communication and coorespondence with our Order. Online classes through skype are not the only way to particiapte as all our online classes are posted to our members forums and each Grade has its own specific Grade Forum to review online classes and particiapate in magical discussions.

[FraterThoth]

I'm sorry to hear you had such limited experience in the EOGD. The loss of Temple Auriel was very disheartening for all of us. I was Astrally initiated many years ago, and although it can be difficult to be apart from a physical temple, all of the Power Weeks and Equinox events that I have spent at physical temples have shown me that those in the EOGD are nothing short of deeply inspiring. There are sometimes unorganized periods in volunteer organizations, but my experience has been awsome.

[mrcrumpit]

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I've been a member of the EOGD for over a decade and have had nothing but positive results. I was a correspondence member for many years like you as well. I can only imagine that if you put as much effort into working with the order that you poured into this video you wouldn't feel the way you do.

[mikela21able]

This is not the experience I had with the EOGD, I know many that will agree that they are not crooks or swindlers but very loving and spiritual people. They can be a little disorganized at times but they are all volunteers that do proctoring on top of jobs and all the responibilities that normal people have. I would try contacting their mother temple again and seeing if they can work out some kind of arrangement that works for you.