Do Law Schools Lie About Job Opportunities?

[rambolean]

why spend bucks and three to four years in class, instead make money and progress your career, I am the proud and first drop out of my law school class, and took a position as a banker and I saw first hand lawyers, and only one was well off, even then nothing to brag about in comparison to doctor or stud business owners

[TripleAgent83]

Before the video there was a commercial about lean and mean dog food, and you see some athletic guy jump in the pool and barely see the dog! lol.

[JenUsesInternet]

@TripleAgent83 LOL I saw the same commercial!

[foggymedia]

It's great when people stick there necks at least a bit. We need a softcore Wikileaks for people to step out like this.

[breanna34]

FML

[sabdow]

All science jobs are shit. You are stuck doing a teaching role or 'government research' for the rest of your life.

The money is in finance/commerce right now. if you think otherwise, you're an idiot. however, it is starting to becoming much more saturated and therefore harder to find a job.

[Eball06]

@sabdow Without science you wouldn't have gas to fill your car. You wouldn't have a car in the first place. And forget about medication for your health. Or, so many other things. If you don't believe me you can as the American Chemistry Council.

[HollyTheFireNinja]

@Eball06 He didn't say other fields are less important, he just said it's where the money's at now. Which is true. The importance of other non-finance, commerce or trading fields are very important too, we get it.

[GollaGandaLova]

@sabdow Yes i think economics is a great degree, u agree?

[sabdow]

@GollaGandaLova -- yes its a great degree but it is for pansies. its a step in the right direction if you want to work in the financial world. i spent 4 years at uni learning in economics and finance about how efficient the market is, how you cant make money from it etc. and now im a futures trader.

uni is a different ball game. one you shouldnt play for too long.

[GollaGandaLova]

@sabdow So what do you mean man? I shouldn't get a degree in Econ at Uni? Cause I know learning economics is very handy and an efficient language to know...

[sabdow]

@GollaGandaLova --what are you interested in? why don't you watch youtube videos of introductory Economics subjects and they will gauge your interest. if youre fallign asleep or bored listening to them, then its not the thing for you.

and do the same with Finance or any other fields. i cant tell you what youre going to like...

[jman451]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[bman006bjj15843]

EE FTW!

[splein23]

Yeh the market is flooded with people who went to college having no career plan when they get out.

[Jaywed]

Go to University with Co-op. If you cant get a co-op job, that should be a clear indicator that you won't find employment once graduated.

[immahappymoocow]

stupid youtube and their character limit, can't even have a proper discussion or debate on youtube anymore

[immahappymoocow]

Which is what they're counting on because they're using those "statistics" to sell their programme to students and bring in the money.

[immahappymoocow]

I live in Britain and this situation is the same with ALL universities. And because they don't mention that the students who are employed after leaving aren't necessarily working in the job related to their course that they don't count themselves as being misleading because they blame it on the people who 'assume' that they mean X% of student leavers are employed in subject area Y.

[Kardiatheon]

There is a war going on!! Why are our young men and women going to college, we need them on the battle field.

[force3264]

Do some real investigative reporting Ana instead of just reading other news reports and bash for-profit colleges when you should be bashing all colleges.

[force3264]

I said law school was a scam in a previous video and how colleges inflate employment rates. It was in the PA video. Check it out. I was right. All colleges are a scam.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@force3264 Community colleges are amazing.

[force3264]

@ooMONKEYoo If you're talking about the non-degree stuff they provide then they are amazing.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@force3264 says the person who's never been.

The community college in my area spends more money on their students than UMD does on their undergrads.

[force3264]

@ooMONKEYoo Is your community college partnered with goldman sachs. Most likely yes so good for you.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@force3264 I love when people ridicule things they've know nothing about.

[force3264]

@ooMONKEYoo You talking about American Association of Community Colleges being funded by goldman sach and you are being teach goldman sach logic or are you talking about me knowing nothing about you? Either way, I love to ridicule things.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@force3264 I'm glad you like looking like an idiot. You're very good at it. :)

[force3264]

@ooMONKEYoo Thanks, better to be an idiot than a goldman sach tool while hating goldman sach yet love it at the same time.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@ooMONKEYoo I'm glad we agree on one thing.

[Pelonetillo]

do your homework before you take out loans, kids.

[ScubzMcTalBowling]

im studying architecture. just think how i feel.

[MiloDaemon]

"Half of students graduating from law schools find full-time work as lawyers"

Ana, have you been to University =/. This is probably the case for every single study out there (At least in The Netherlands), usually because a big portion doesn't want to be a lawyer. My dad is one of 8 top managers within our government and is, University-wise, a teacher, 2 of his colleagues have studied psychology and law. Only 2 of those 8 have actually studied the study that directs them to their current job.

[MiloDaemon]

@MiloDaemon Point is, a University degree for law doesn't mean you're a smart lawyer, it means your a smart person. Whether you want to do law, business, whateverthefuck, you probably can.

[lordblazer]

@MiloDaemon

hey I studied international relations and I am moving to Istanbul to work in Finance. XD soooo yea pretty much very few people work in the field of their study. Even engineers really don't practice their field. It is about chasing your passion and getting an education is important for that reason alone. we dont really need everyone to be a doctor or engineer. this isn't India. XD well I think that is India's problem with its education policy. lack of investment in social sciences

[braydenbeautiful]

I'm majoring in chemistry.

Here's an idea: stop studying social science, and start studying pure sciences.

Social sciences are not as math intensive, some not at all (like english). So, the market is oversaturated with them because people want to get out of math.

Well, there's a price to be payed for the easy route. We need social scientists, and lawyers and economists, and business people -- we just don't need so many! We do however need lots of doctors, engineers, medical researches, etc.

[Owner46]

@braydenbeautiful you clearly don't know how much math economists do.

[braydenbeautiful]

@Owner46

I took Cal 2 -- and many of the people in the class were economic majors. Economics is the closest thing to natural science the social science camp has to offer. The only distinction being you assume rational behavior, knowing fully well that humans are not purely rational -- that's all that separates it from science

Economists do a lot of math, even calculus. Dy/dx = e^x means something to most economists. However, most people studying a social science are not studying economics.

[Owner46]

@braydenbeautiful lol barely scratching the surface there. Calc 2 and lin.alg 2 will give you the very basics, but to do anything serious in economics you're going to need real analysis, measure theory, topology, partial differential equations, and linear programming (at the very least).

[braydenbeautiful]

@Owner46

No I agree; you have a valid point as I've already conceded. Many of my fellow bachelor of science friends are economics majors -- and many are much, MUCH smarter than me. I don't think you have to study chemistry or physics to be smart, obviously. They're just better. ahah. I kid. My point still stands that the majority of people studying a social science or an art are not studying economics. Thus, avoiding math.

[cmtsoccer9]

@braydenbeautiful the easy route? have you tried law school?

[braydenbeautiful]

@cmtsoccer9

I'm not under the illusion that Law is easy -- but I don't see how it could be harder than pure sciences, mathematics or, as Owner46 pointed out, economics.

[Surlish]

@braydenbeautiful - 100% agree. If students take the easier route of a social sciences degree, they have to deal with the consequences of that. I am a history graduate and I had to fight to get the good job I have now.

If people want to have a higher chance of a job at the other end, do a "harder" degree like engineering. Otherwise, just live with the consequences of taking the easy route.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful Blame public schools. They make science and math horrible. Unless you have parents or other roll models to help you understand and like math and science, you're not going to.

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

Public schools may make science/math worse, but they're really hard regardless. I go to on of the best universities in Canada, and a science school at at, and even with excellent instruction, the stuff is really hard.

Still, you have a point.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful It has nothing to do with easy or hard; it has to do with enjoyment. Almost everything is hard in college. If you like it, it's not too much like hell.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful First of all Calculus 3 isn't parallel to creative writing - Algebra 1 is. If you want to compare calculus 3 to19th-Century British Novels or Medieval Literature in difficulty , then we can talk.

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

I did Algebra 1 in 10th grade, not university. As for 19th-Century British Novels or Medieval Literature in difficulty, I still don't think there is a comparison. They're difficult, I'd agree, but I cannot see how they're as difficult as Cal 3.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful And you'll be happy to know that the majority of Americans have to take MA101/102 AGAIN in college. And btw - many high school students take a creative writing class.

You can make assumptions all you want, but it's this pretentious way of thinking that gets you in trouble. If you think for a second studying formulas is the sole reason why you're smarter than an English or Music major, you've got another thing coming. You'd probably flunk out of a 250+ English class.

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

I took Higher Level IB English in high school (= first year university course) and I made 99%, without grade compensation. If I were to flunk, it would be out of boredom.

I am awful at music, and failed with ~30% all though High school (mandatory), despite pouring my heart into it -- I just could not do it. So yeah, I think we can safely say I'm not a polymath. Happy?

Math is a superior language to English. Period. On this, I don't think we'll agree.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful The fake college level courses in highschool are a joke. Don't play into the school raking ploy!

You can't communicate with math. Without written word, math would have no purpose. The formulas mean absolutely nothing when not connected with something tangible.

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

For humans, but humans are inefficient, mostly irrational primates. Again, you're understanding of math is superficial if you think it just about formulas. The power or math is that it is based on the induction and deduction of logical truths. You can absolutely communicate thoughts with math: it is a full-fledged language as, if not more, versatile than any natural language, e.g., English. However, just like a sword, the hands who wheeled it matter most.

[braydenbeautiful]

@braydenbeautiful

;

that*

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful Math doesn't matter if theirs nothing tangible to pair it up with. Now you're defending math by saying smart alien might use it to communicate? You're definition of MATH is the same definition of LANGUAGE. The way you describe math, English is math. Spanish is math.

the systematic treatment of magnitude, relationships between figures and forms, and relations between quantities expressed symbolically.

THAT means formulas

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

I don't know what to tell you; it's clear you haven't taken enough abstract math to appreciate it as more than a mechanical problem solving tool.

You don't have to look to space to find a brain that thinks on math -- you're sitting in front of one.

Moreover, you're missing the similarities. We say "dis" as in disassemble. We make assemble negative with that prefix. This is the same way one goes about making 7, for example, negative with a negative symbol, "-".

Lastly e ≠ m.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful @braydenbeautiful

mathematical procedures, operations, or properties.

Formula

the science of numbers and their operations, interrelations, combinations, generalizations, and abstractions and of space configurations and their structure, measurement, transformations, and generalizations

formula

a branch of, operation in, or use of mathematics <the mathematics of physical chemistry

formula

When does math not use formulas or the like?

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

I don't know why you're obsessed with formulas. I just did a 4 page proof and I didn't use a single formula. Pure logic. Perhaps you mean an equation?

You often think of expressing something mathematically -- I do at least. It is this that is hardest, how do I take something my brain typically understands in natural language, and translate it into math. The reverse can also be done (but its even harder).

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

As for it being a ploy, I know it is not at all because I took it again first year. I did not use the credit I earned in High school because I was advised not to. It was exactly the same level of difficulty.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful You've taken the class already - If it was just as hard, it must have been even harder for someone who had no background in the class. Does that make sense?

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

Perhaps...but I honestly thought it was easy, period.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful So easy you subconsciously use the word 'difficult' at first to describe it. I see.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful Oh -- I forgot to tell you, I took a creative writing class in 7th grade -- what math did you take in 7th grade? Lets compare those two classes, why don't we?

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

I don't know what math I took in 7th grade, nor do I really care.

[braydenbeautiful]

@ooMONKEYoo

Math is not about studying formulas. It is about abstract thinking and problem solving.

Moreover, I don't think I'm smarter than English majors. IQ scores, based on SAT exams, are very similar with mathematics majors and English Literature majors. The both present different types of intelligence; one has linguistically intelligence, the other logical/mathematical. This is just as Gardner proposed.

Lastly, I don't think I'd ace a high level english lit course -- even if did care.

[ooMONKEYoo]

@braydenbeautiful You're smart enough to admit when you're wrong. That's as smart as a human can get. I'm glad you'll invent or help invent something that will save my life/make it better. Unfortunately, you'll make $2 while the tool 'creative' marketing degree-haver will make millions advertising the product -- the one that got the job, anyway...

[ooMONKEYoo]

@ooMONKEYoo csadsa

[mistacramer]

@braydenbeautiful

How math intensive something is or pissing matches over who had the "harder major" are really irrelevant compared to the pragmatic reality of getting a job whenever you finish your formal education. The dumbest people I knew at university were business students who drank themselves to a 2.0 while getting cushy jobs once they finished school. Does their income make them good students? If someone can finds a decent job in a field they like, what's the problem?

[braydenbeautiful]

@mistacramer

I don't think so. I don't think it is a pissing match: at 7am I'm up and in the lab while the English majors are still asleep until 10. Business majors may get a job on Wall Street, for example, but they don't have the same job security as a doctor, for example.

[mistacramer]

@braydenbeautiful

I think the big problem is the dishonesty by schools of job opportunities and people telling high school students(or really kids from childhood to adolescence) that they should get any degree from anywhere no matter what the cost. People ought to do their homework and if they decide something besides physics and chemistry, then that's ok. Just let people know what they are getting into beforehand.

[braydenbeautiful]

@mistacramer

Agreed

[lordblazer]

@braydenbeautiful

umm scientist don't get paid alot either unless they are able to get something top tier. Its the same in every field almost. Lots of engineer degree holders aren't even practicing their field. Sooooo I just tell people to do what they love and excell at, and network network network. You can study petrol engineering, but if you suck at networking then you ain't getting a job nuff said. i studied international studies. abt to work in Istanbul now but I network like crazy!!

[braydenbeautiful]

@lordblazer

Not really. In 2009, engineering was again the hardest care to fill -- You can look it up on Forbes if you don't believe me. You're going to get job because beggars can't be choosers. They need engineers, droves of them.

[lordblazer]

@braydenbeautiful

with that being said I won't doctors who are passionate about their career choice, sane with medical researchers. So I am against everyone having such a narrow focus. It oversaturates the job market in those fields. And we need social scientist, economist, political scientist, analyst, entrepreneurs, etc etc. we do need less in advertising and marketing.

[dangflo]

@braydenbeautiful a chemistry major by itself is useless to get work, the people i know who majored in chemistry and did not get into medical school, are going back for a second degree or working for a shit wage doing lab work at a hospital.

[braydenbeautiful]

@dangflo

my best friend is a year older than me, majored in chemistry and just got accepted to med school last week - my GPA is even higher than his was. So, I don't know what your friends did, but as long as take the required classes and have GPA above 3.8-3.9, you can easily get in. I know bachelor of arts people who got accepted to med school. Perhaps your friends tried to get into schools out of their league.

[benchfordeath]

@braydenbeautiful to be fair, grad level economics is incredibly math intensive. in fact, you basically need to major in math undergrad to have a shot at 1st and 2nd tier grad econ programs.

[braydenbeautiful]

@benchfordeath

I think I've already made that concession.

[SapphireDiamond19]

Because math here is terrible. The math currciculm here is the worst in the world and math teachers here are terrible. Sorry

[stfuxcali]

@braydenbeautiful true.. but people are going to do what they like because it's what'll make them happy.. you have to WANT to be a doctor, and honestly, I'd rather be a high school teacher living in an apartment and loving my job rather than being something that I would hate to do just because we apparently "need more" people doing these jobs, such a doctor, engineer or medical researcher.

[braydenbeautiful]

@stfuxcali

fair enough, just as long as you're not surprised when the US loses the title of world's largest economy, or when drugs come out 10 years later than they could have under ideal circumstances (i.e., more science people).

[stfuxcali]

@braydenbeautiful yeah, but there's so many people going into the medical field so i wouldn't worry too much about it. i mean, this isn't China, haha, people should be able to comfortably pick the job they want and love without feeling guilty for potentially slowing down the U.S's science advancements

[braydenbeautiful]

@stfuxcali

We'll just have to agree to disagree on everything you just said.

No hard feelings.

[NikoLiberty1000]

@braydenbeautiful Here's an idea: let me do what job I want to damn do, even if it involves social science.

[braydenbeautiful]

@NikoLiberty1000

Uhh, I don't recall trying to stop you from doing whatever banal job you want.

[NikoLiberty1000]

@braydenbeautiful I agree that science is an under appreciated field and that we definitely need more scientists, I just feel that just because there is a need for scientists & doctors, doesn't necessarily mean that people should be obligated to fill those jobs. I mean what if in 25 years we end up having a need for people to work in fields involving social & political sciences again?...

[braydenbeautiful]

@NikoLiberty1000

The engine for economic growth has always been science, at least from the industrial revolution onward. I don't dislike the arts or social sciences; I'm a chemistry major, as I said, and I take 4000 level english lit classes. Orwell and Arthur Miller make my toes curl -- so this is not coming from hate. The problem is the jobs of the future are high tech...high math/science jobs.There will always be arts jobs, but you can expect them to shrink even more in the coming decades.

[NikoLiberty1000]

@braydenbeautiful ...Don't take it personally, but just try to understand this from the viewpoint of somebody who has a passion for working in law or social/ political sciences.

[Francium5]

@braydenbeautiful I hate to break it to you, but English is not a science...

[braydenbeautiful]

@Francium5

The stupidity is really just incredible.

[JoblessJane]

@braydenbeautiful It should be noted that the economy can only employ so many doctors, engineers, and medical researchers at currently prevailing wage rates and that if we were to double the number of engineers, the number of jobs for engineers would not magically increase to accommodate them. Many engineers might also argue that the engineering field is also glutted. We already have far too many PhD. scientists. Search for an article titled The Real Science Gap in Miller-McCune.

[TripleAgent83]

@braydenbeautiful There are lots and lots and lots and lots of people....Enough that they can be happy to choose whatever they want to study or choose as a career.....Sociology, the (soft science), studies ALL of the lots and lots and lots and lots of people out there. It takes a Sociologist, a good one, to run an effective economy.

[Vyna80]

@braydenbeautiful the reason there are so many people with college degree and no work has nothing to do with what they majored in, if you're good at what you studied and did well in college, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding employment in your chosen field. The real reason there are so many unemployed college graduates is because most people are idiots and since anyone can go to college, there are a lot of dumb college graduates. Thought I guess this is partially your argument.

[GollaGandaLova]

@braydenbeautiful Economics is a great college degree. Its got nothing to do with Political Science, but if you have passion for solving the nations problems, solutions and what we can do to become energy independent, Economics is great. However it doesnt pay as much as an Engineering degree, average starting salary is $50 k and up. And Economists are great in demand nowdays.

[blacklite911]

I don't find this surprising, I see a lot of law schoolers going into politics and business.

[ado0101]

wow, fuck... glad i've been basing my entire education around this. thanks, capitalism.

[Izer0kelvinI]

I guess its a good thing I'm studying Chemistry...

[jenisedai]

@Izer0kelvinI yeah- cooking meth is going to pay way more than working for Dow.

[TheDuckofLaw]

just graduated from law school in December. and yes, I know I'm screwed.

[MountHappy]

Great news for people entering law school such as myself...

[Nemesis000000]

@MountHappy Don't worry, you'd be even more screwed in most other streams

[MountHappy]

@Nemesis000000 That is true, I guess I can't complain too much.

[SagaciousSilence]

@MountHappy Which school are you attending for law? I'll be graduating next year and am currently studying for the LSAT. I'm in Cali so my hope is to go to Berkeley, UCLA, USC, etc... I can only hope, but now the reports of job opportunities has me scared.

[TeslaTechnologyRocks]

@SagaciousSilence This is from Wikipedia under Law school. As of 2010, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that the expected number of new lawyer positions is to be fewer than 60% of the number of graduates out of law schools.In one day alone nationwide 800 law firm jobs were terminated. Attrition among graduates of law schools are also very high, with 39.1% reporting not practicing law after 1 year. After 10 years in lower tier schools it approaches 90%. Student Loans can exceed $200,000.