Chiropractic47, your "facts" have been proven false. That is a direct quote from a person's conspiracy website. The average medical student has a substantially higher gpa, more classroom work, and MUCH higher and rigorous course content. The courses are the same, only in name. I guess I don't find it surprising that a chiropractor doesn't use facts, and instead interjects his own beliefs into how things work.
@TheMrTurtlebob Er, what you post is contradictory to the U.S. Dept. of Edu., Dept. of Health and Human Services, Coultour, PhD, Grisanti, etc. The entrance requirements for chiropractic school is greater than that of med school and the curricula for chiropractic is the same but 500 more hours than medical school. FInal answer, you lose. Chiropractic for all!
@chiropractic47 How about facts instead of misinformation? Please show me this. Why is the chiropractic field dying? It's hilarious that you are so diluted. Have fun with your associateship making less than 20k a year. I wonder what would happen if we removed all the chiro's from the world? I bet our healthcare systsem would collapse, oh wait thats only for doctors. Continue to blurt misnomers and false information. Your parallel with what a chiro does, what a shame.
@TheMrTurtlebob The entrance requirementsand curricula for both chiropractic and medical school is published on the internet and I gave you references. According to the Dept. of Commerce and Edu., chiropractic is both the second largest of the primary portal of entry physicians and fastest growing primary health care field in the U.S. In 1990 I was paid $60,000 in my first year of associatship. My solo practice grosses $500,000/year. Those interested in a DC, please contact me.
@chiropractic47 There is a reason 80% of the population thinks you are quacks. On top of being academically sub-par, you are also a liar. ;) here are some statistics
l - averages
gpa of undergraduate entering chiro - 2.7 gpa of med student entering - 3.6
@chiropractic47 Also, lol at you using statistics from 1990. You do realize thats not the case right now? Insurance companies are dropping you all like flies because your pseudo-medicine (witchcraft) doesn't do anything. Another chiro school just closed in california. It must be because of all the success you guys are having. If you were paid 60k a year in 1990 then you were in the top 1% of chiro salaries. I would beg to reason that you are a disgruntled chiro who fell prey to ignorance.
@TheMrTurtlebob Have you ever been curious as to the underlying cause of your emotional illness? Please read the published research indicting the effectiveness of chiropractic nervous system relaxing spinal adjustnments? Please recieve good and much necessary chiropractic care.
@chiropractic47 Insecurities run rampant in you. You get proven wrong and turn to personal attacks. Once again, the chiropractic community loses another battle. I read somewhere were you spend hours upon hours replying to e-mails with your delusional belief. I would take a second look at who has the illness. ;) Maybe a real doctor could help you.
@TheMrTurtlebob Please, don't take my responses to your "Troll posts" as a personal attack upon you. I really wish to help you get over "This". Psych. literature suggests' those who troll accepted health care delivery systems; such as chiropractic, attempt to reconcile alterior motives which contradict their own indifferences. In otherwords Turtlebob, you understand chiropractic as the truth, and we love you for this. Chiropractic loves you Bob. Peace.
@TheMrTurtlebob Please, you need help, and as a doctor, it's incumbent upon me to assure you recieve depression arresting chiropractic care along with multiple sessions with a talk therapist. Medical care via a psychiatrist has proven to be fatal in many instances. Psychogenic drugs only compound the issues at hand. Do you have clergy with whom you may speak? Be well my friend, I am here for you.
The entrance requirements for chiropractic school is more than that of medical school. Medical doctors complete the same curricula but 500 less classroom hours than chiropractic doctors (U.S. Dept of Edu., Coultour, PhD, The Grisanti Report, U.S. Dept of HHS), etc. Every major U.S. and international study concludes that chiropractic is more effective than medicine, osteopathy, and physical therapy for spine pain and dysfunction (Magna Report, U.S. Dept. of HHS, The New Zealand Report, etc.).
Do you happen to know the percentage of people who fail to gain entrance into medical school versus those who fail to gain entrance into chiropractic school?
You are citing sources, but in your post below you say that:
"Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything."
Based on your own statement, would you cite any source, much less believe it?
Chiropractic is the largest and fastest growing of the holistic health care providers. Along with being extremely effective in allowing the body to reach its full potential, it;s also an awesome and rewarding health career choice. Please feel free to ask questions.
As a result of this good pro=chiropractic Youtube video, I've had two people contact me regarding a career in chiropractic. i'mpleaed to announce that one of these people have taken advantage of my ambassador status to Life University School for Chiropractic. This individual recieved as courtesy of Life; a complimentary airfare and campus accommodations at Life university. On behalf of Life University School for Chiropractic, we wish this special individual a blessed career in chiropractic.
That didn't happen, though I love the thought of this learned individual asking what he can expect to earn before he takes out all those loans..and maybe he is smart enough to research the DOL, when he asks the admissions officer, he is told "don't worry, we will teach you how to cheat on your taxes",be better if there was some level of competitiveness to get in the school in the first place.. Has anyone ever met anyone who graduated college but couldn't get into chiro school?
@TheBaseballdoc Both new chiro students are not he's but ladies. Women make up a good portion of DC sudents and doctors. You cheated on your taxes, so get off your high moral horse. Chiro schools understand the world needs millions of DC's, so there is no better way than to allow most to have a chance in helping the world. Go for it! I feel your panging too be a DC. Go for it! Chiropractic!
@2053tee I feel sorry for you bozo, I never had an associate in my practice...so let the
"...shit slinging to start..." Last month two MD's and teir chort pharmacists were imprisoned for fraududulent insurance billing and oxycodone trafficing. As the vids author contends, there are a few bad apples in every profession. So, are you Thebaseballdocs' Mini-Me? Good day.
I don't believe that to be true about M.D.'s. I have two M.D. patients. Both are ER docs at two different hospitals. I believe that to be more true about ortho's, specifically spinal ortho's. And the difference is financial incentive. I did my rotation at the VA in Houston where every MD I worked with had a respect for the DC's and vice verse. A lot is going on to close that gap. At one time if you put 10 MD's and 10 DC's in a bar, there was going to be a fight..like army/navy was at 1 time.
OK..I hope you're not purposefully missing my point, but let's cut to the chase ...Based on the entirety of the recent posts, including content, truthfulness, decorum, etc...Is chiro47 someone you are proud to have represent your profession?
@TheBaseballdoc "I hope you're not purposefully missing my point,..." Look at you. Who do you think you are? By far, you're NOT an authority on health nor a mentor in decorum. And admist your terpitude of chiropractic, you appeal to the videos author? You can't be for real!? Anyone reading your posts, with its swill and shit slinging at good and necessary chiropractic, is able to read into the fact that you suffer from emotional illness. Get help sir. You're definitely sick.
@TheBaseballdoc Now you're really sounding more and more like a failed in school or practice DC or MD... 1000 to 3000 pv/week collects between 1-2.5 million dollars/year. My practices gross collections for 2010 were close to $500,000. So what's your highschool teacher salary? $65k/year? We need teachers, and in some states/districts they should be paid more than what they recieve. See...I'm with you buddy.
More lies from you...considering the national mean for DC income is $67K..with 90% of DCs making less than $144K annually..and someone as stupid as you made it to the to top 10% huh?
Of course even if I accept your gross collection of $500K in 2010, I can likely show you are lying about everything else...so, lets confirm that $500K is your total office collections for 2010. You're not going to pull out some other number later? Or add an office? Anything else?
@TheBaseballdoc Can't wait to see how this goes...Irregardless of the DOL; DC's gross avge 100k/year, greater majority gross multi six figures. I'm a lone practictioner with sattelite office in wifes hair salon (large cottage on home property). Office manager, two assistants. All share billing, reception, practice member management, internal/external marketing. 35% cash-65% insurance, 10% medicare, 35% comp., 40% reg ins., 15% PI. Nearly 500 pv/week 2010. M-W-F 8-12-3-7 T 3-7 TH-closed S 8-10.
What do you mean "irregardless of the DOL?"..Their data comes from the IRS...and speaks to gross personal income before taxes (1040)..you dont agree with their numbers? Why?
So 30 hours at one office with 3 full time employees? What about the satellite office? How many hours there? Any employees there?
How many new members per week?
What E/M code do you bill mostly for initial exam?
@TheBaseballdoc Regarding the DOL: Hey...does everyone report every single penny they earn? Are the IRS "Number Crunchers" completely accurate? Sattelite office: An hour here an hour there...., no employees, info. is transferred to main office. New members main office: +- 50/month, sattelite office: +-6/month.
But to get the average to over $100K as you suggest, that would mean that more than half the chiros in the US are hiding about 50% of their income...are you suggesting that to be true? Your own tax habits aside, how do you know more than the IRS and DOL about the income for all DCs in US?
MD general practice avg is $186K and surgeons/specialists is $340K..so total MD mean is around $275K..should we bump that number up proportionally the same as you bumping up the DC income?
@TheBaseballdoc DC can't hide 50% unless they were 50% cash. Many DC's do strictly cash. DC's, DDS's, MD's, etc...all hide some $. It's the American way. So go ahead and bump up DOL income figures +- 20%.
But I have no evidence to allow for that. And you haven't provided any evidence of the percentage of DCs who are strictly cash, and the source of your claim about that. We have pretty good data from pretty good sources right now..IRS and DOL...looking at 55,000 DC tax returns..why would we, based on the word of one person (you) call them all tax cheats? Actually, though I'm no accountant, when you think of the increase you propose, I imagine it's beyond the tax evasion threshold.
@TheBaseballdoc An unwritten rule of thumb...report every third cash transaction. Today a practice member paid $3000 cash upfront one year (90 visit) stabilization/correction care plan. Ok, let's cut through the chase...when are you going to apply to chiropractic school?
No, I don't believe that actually happened, but did he get a receipt? Never mind, we will get to that later.
We need to agree on the baseline values for DC income..and by the way, bumping up DOL numbers 20% only brings chiros to about $80K and MDs to $320K..like I originally said, more than half the chiros in US would have to be evading taxes on half their income to get it close to $100K...and in any event the data shows that the avg MD makes 4X the avg DC..you agree with that?
@TheBaseballdoc Oh yes it did happen my fair medical friend. This happens frequently with cash/insurance practices. MD's are also leaving the third party payer paradigm. As I mentioned earlier, my practice is 35% cash and shifting in this direction each day. Most pre-pays are set up with a payment plan. The most common pre-pay schedule is $1500 for 6 months (56 visits) correction care schedules. Practice members love it due to not whipping out $20-35 co-pays, etc.
@TheBaseballdoc Reciept? Of course. The IRS/DOL data speaks for itsself, not the chiropractic profession. 99212. X-ray. Approx. 50% recieve x-rays. EMG/NCV/US, durable medical equipment, nutritional counseling w/food,vit., food, and mineral supplements. $50 or 98940, without prepay. Each person is unique in how much intensive/corrective care is required.
I may be missing something, but I looked up 99212 and its a re-exam of existing patient code..Thats not the same as initial exam of a new patient, or is it?
What do you mean by "the IRS/DOL data speaks for itself, not the chiropractic profession"?
Doesn't it contain the same class of data for all occupations? Your statement makes no sense to me.
Its either the average DC in US earns about $67K/year, or more than half the profession is hiding more than half their income.
@TheBaseballdoc I don't do the billing, 99212 is what came to mind. I'll ask office manager Monday...can you wait till them before you declare me or all DC's liars? Majority of DC's gross well over $100k/year, final answer. All professions hide income, some more, some less.
Your answers are so "chiropractic" in a nutshell..."I don't do the billing..I'll ask the office manager"...are you kidding?
Just because you say "majority of DCs gross well over $100K/yr", doesn't mean its true...especially when we have data from 55,000 tax returns that say otherwise...
Maybe thats how in works in chiro land;anyone can just make a claim that fits their own collective desire and everyone runs with it even in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary
@TheBaseballdoc True buddy. I've never performed billing. You'll wait till Monday for exam code. Hey wait...you say you're an MD...you must know the code too? Most DC's gross over $100k/year. Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything. Don't be a pub-sucker.
99201, 99202, 99203, 99204, and 99205 are new patient initial evaluation codes. 99211, 99212, 99213, 99214, and 99215 are established patient re-evaluation codes.
As I asked earlier, why would you cite any source if your position is, as you already said, " "Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything." ?
Could we learn anything from a profession's student load default rate? Or the student loan default rate of a school, such as Life U?
Your statement:"Each person is unique in how much intensive/corrective care is required." is understood, but doesnt answer as to why that member who you say gave you $3K in cash up front for 90 visits over a year (at $33 per visit) wouldnt have rather chosen to give you $1500 for 56 visits over six months ($27 per visit) and then another $1500 in six months, which gives him 112 visits for the same $3K...Why would anyone choose to pay more, and pay it up front, for less service?
@TheBaseballdoc It was determined that practice member required one year intensive then corrective care rather than six months. Each plan gives different care graduation dates and ancillary sevices. Your confusion with chiropractic care and schedules is understandable given your lifelong exposure to that of allopathy. You're not going to like this but...today a new practice member pre-paid $2300 for 6 months care plus spinal decompression therapy...sorry.
How much time does it take for you to explain these various plans with your new members? Especially the one where they have to pay more money for less treatments?
So you have a VAX-D too? I suppose your going to tell me its been developed and approved at NASA now? What room is that in? LMAO
Chiros are so used to speweing bs, they don't know when to stop, and often forget there is a thinking world out there...
@TheBaseballdoc Yes it happened amigo. Last year I recieved a PM then call from a Canadian university lady grad aiming for Canadian Memorial Chiropractic. I successfully aimed her to Life Chiro. In September another called me from Connecticut. She's working on her pre-req. for Bridgeport Chiro. A true happy story for chiropractic.. a sad one for you. Sorry, I'm not lying. People feel how passionate I am for chiropracrtic and my success. They too will be successful. Chiropractic!!
@DrRamby As you're aware, Baseballdoc and305t3 are here primarily to defame both your good video and chiropractic. All that I posted regarding the success and scope of mine and my chiropactic friend's practices is true. Under a strict agreement between you and, I'll allow you to either visit or speak with those who will substantiate this. I came here in awe and peace for chiropractic, whilst TheBaseballdoc stands waitng to sling his nonsense and contempt for chiropractic. Please block him.
I don't even know that doc and have never heard of him. He has nothing to do with this video. I agree that there are a few bad apples in every group. A few bad MD's, a few bad chiro's, a few bad lawyers, a few bad judges, etc. The video has nothing to do one one particular person but more of a group as a whole. I refer back and forth with a few good MD's every day. This video is to enlighten those ortho's who don't realize that chiropractic chiro malpractice is less than their car insurance
But at the heart of your video DrRamby is the reluctance or refusal of some MDs to refer to DCs...and malpractice rates don't even come close to rationalizing anything about referrals in any scenario, one way or the other...but I hope you can agree with more conviction than you did in your recent post, that chiro47 is one of the many poster children who enable numerous MDs and other professionals to consider most chiropractors to be ignorant and under-educated buffoons.
@TheBaseballdoc No one enables an MD. Whilst in their fantacy world, they distance themselves from chiropractic due to their indoctrinization into allopathy/medicine; which dsables their ability to understand differences and change in the health care arena. The tide is changing, it's chiropractic doctors who are beginning to pick and choose MD's to confer/ and refer. The vids author states this elegantly to you in one of his posts.
Has anyone else here picked up on the "TheBaseballdoc"? Though he calims to be an MD, it turns out he's a highschool debate and baseball coach. Talk about advanced schizophrenia with narsassitic overtones? Whoa, dudes a "card".
More freshman debate from you? The attempt to appeal for help from the crowd? And using your limited conversational knowledge of medical terms (that you can't even spell correctly)? Stick to impressing uninformed people at parties.
I look forward to someone coming up with the math and aligning themselves with you in our exchange.
3000 members per week..$7 million a year
Am I an MD? Retired MD? Neither? Does it matter? You are a liar, plain and simple, and have no standing.
@TheBaseballdoc Ben Lerner, DC of NYC sees 1500 pv/week. Robert Schiffman, DC sees 2000-3000 pv/week, Kevin Jackso DC of York PA, sees 1000 pv/week, thousands more see over 1000 pv/week. My practice will break 500 pv/week this new year.
Now you are back to 3000 per week? We have already extablished your lying (or duped yourself) about schiffman. Even if we allow for a slow week and a private helicopter transport between his two offices that are 75 miles apart from each other, he would have to see a minimum of 100 patients an hour...
Jackson would have to see a minimum of 35 pv/hour in York PA
Before we get to Lerner, are you or any of these chiros billing Medicare or any insurer?
LOL...I thought the insurance question would scare you away, but not so quickly.
You started this by claiming to already see 500 pv/week and 50 new patients per month, then weeks later you claim your practice will get there this year.
We didnt even figure in new patients for schiff and friends...if we factor 10 new patients a week, thats 10 hours devoted to 10 patients, initial consult and exam and the second visit report of findings or are those visits 45 seconds each as well?
@TheBaseballdoc Shmuck, we spoke of my practice reaching the levels of those seeing 1000 pv/week. It was here that I mentioned my practice should exceed 500 pv/week this new year. You will not understand how a new practice member is handled whilst utilizing an allopathic/medical approach. Many chiropractic practices have more than one doctor (Jackson), making it simpler to handle new practice members. Most busy practices recieve between 25 and 100+ new practice members/month.
@TheBaseballdoc LOL! You correctly quoted me and the information did'nt change? 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/month. Of course very busy chiropractic offices bill Medicare for our 90 second to 3 minute patient visit. Medicare pays only for the chiropractic spinal adjustment. Lovin Chiropractic!
Your quote is 50 new patients per week...but even 50 new patients per month is an exaggeration, consistent with your other lies.
So now some patients must be getting 15 second treatments to make up for the "wasted time" with the Medicare patients, huh? Otherwise how could anyone "see" the 35 to 100 per hour you have repeatedly claimed in order to get to 1000 per week in 27 hours (jackson) or 3000 per week in 19 hours (shiffman)?
@TheBaseballdoc Shmuck, I sense in between the time you spend jerking-off to this video, you've visited chiropractic publications, sbstantiating all that I've claimed. If now I can only get you to recieve talk therapy.
You of all people, should know how to spell "schmuck". I don't need to see any chiropractic publications to prove you are a liar..all I need is a stopwatch and common sense.
I have seen many chiropractic publications, mostly propaganda in my view, but I prefer to have any questions answered by state boards and licensing authorities.
Even the producer of this video, DrRamby, seems to be distancing himself from you...
@TheBaseballdoc Hey, I guess it all boils down to the fact that it takes a "shmuck" to know how to spell "Schmuck"? So, let's not waste any time expecting you to read chiropractic publications. What about the numerous govt. and medical studies substantiating chiropractic? Go ahead medic, choose your flavor....
I curious what any of these questions have to do with the video? I've posted studies from Spine that state that patients get better faster with manipulation. Studies performed by MD's. The video simply states that chiro malpractice is in a lot of cases pennies on the dollar compared to an ortho. I don't tell patients not to see an ortho. Ortho's tell patients not to see me. They come anyway...and end up not needing the surgery they were recommended. The video just points this out.
I've been meaning to ask...why each week are dozens of MD's and their pharmacists cohorts arrested for oxycodone, etc. trafficing? Don't they make good enough of a living?
@TheBaseballdoc Hey...you don't have to be too defensive. I didn't aim the MD and pharmacist drug trafficking arrests towards you. It was in the "All Comments" section that I made the post...so, what's on your mind...feeling a little guilty? What did you do? Come-on, get it off your chest...we're here for you.
Who's we? U I thought by now a few of your colleagues would do some math and show the rational world how they believe 3000 members per week...by themselves...
Sticking with your claim of 3000 members per week..? Don't forget the "by themselves"..
@TheBaseballdoc Sure! Post links for both the DC and MD...be fair now, ok? Schiffman, Sigafoose, jackson, etc. see between 1000-3000 pv/week...final answer, LOL!
We back to 19 hours per week in south bend schiffman? with the 90 minute drive to his other office in munster?? c'mon...
One thing's for sure..the 15 students (and some faculty) whom I teach in high school debate class and have been following our exchange will never see a DC...
One sophmore asked a good question...but I doubt you will answer..: Why is it that you refuse to post your own practice website, yet you have no problem posting the names of your friends and colleagues?
@TheBaseballdoc Thanks to your sick and twisted mind the students will seek chiropractic care...You brought it to them and they're embarrassed. They won't tell you for fear of retaliation. Sadly, before your only audience you denegrate chiropractic as a means to vindicate your low selfesteem. Hopefully, the school administration will be made privy to your malfeasance and poor influence upon the students. Word seems to get around. And you wish me to post my website? You're sick!
Unlike the schools you slept through, I don't teach students WHAT to think, but HOW to think...they make up their own minds..teach them to do research, (including simple math)..and how to not be distracted by your opponent's (supposedly a professional doctor in this case) use of insults, lack of ability to do simple math, and constant attempts to distract from his original lie.
They are better equipped to formulate their own opinions as they make school and career choices. thanks
@TheBaseballdoc Pardon me sir, you're no teacher nor role model. Your presence here, posting on this pro-chiropracc video, is enough of a indicator to trigger most to distance themselves from you. It's you, not the students you allege to coach in debate, that needs urgent help. Please cease your sick posting activity and recieve mental health counseling. There is good in most of us... there may be still hope for you. Peace.
Again you trying to use debate strategy 101, but sadly your attempt to be civil is made transparent by your prior posts. Also, the fact that you are afraid to post your own website, yet readily post names of colleagues and friends shows even more of what we already know about you
3000 a week by themselves
Teaching young minds how to use science and common sense so that they don't fall prey to hucksters and quacks such as yourself..an educated public is chiro's worst nightmare.
@TheBaseballdoc Jerk, why don't you post your own info.? Let's see the wimp behind his sick thoughts. What's stopping you from contacting my collegues? What's the matter punk? Are you just a pussy hiding behind his PC? You're here because the world is on the cusp of utilizing chiropractic. You're concerned and scared, and rightfully so. It's assholes such as yourself who selfishly monopolize. The people want chiropractic and we will give it to them. And you claim to debate? Jerk.
Well, your attempt at civility didn't last long, did it?
3000 visits per week..by themselves...
Here are the questions for the quiz on our exercise:
Why would anyone have to grossly exaggerate how busy they are? What could one reasonably deduce from the language or style used? Would you trust someone like that with your health? Why or why not? Though our example used alternative practitioners, how can this experience be applied to other areas of life's choices and decisions?
@TheBaseballdoc Hopefully you're recieving mental health care from a psychologist or talk therapist. If yes, now is the time to call him/her to keep them in the loop. Are you taking psych. meds? If yes, they're likely not the answer to your mental health issues. Plese call your therapist and recieve nervous system relaxing chiropractic care.
3000 members per week..allowing for vacations and holidays, thats 140, 000 visits per year...at $50 a pop?? thats $7 million a year...not bad...lol
Why would I, or anyone for that matter, accept advice from a liar? But I must say you have helped with our little experiment, as I suspected you would. You post to me that started this came at the perfect time..must have been universal intelligence at work..
I've been a DC for 20 years, see 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/week, adjust babies to geeriatrics, pay $2000/year malpractice with never a claim. Chiropractic doctors complete the same subjects but 500 more hours than MD's. The science is there supporting chiropractic whilst only 15% of science supports medicine. The pharmaceutical companies write half the medical school curricula, medicine is the fourth largest cause of death in the world....and the medics here want to bash chiropractic?
Normally, I would ask for your office hours first, but let's do some math...500 pv/week, even at 8 pv/hour equals 62.5 hours...add that to 50 new patients per week, even assuming a new patient gets only a half hour, that's another 25 hours. So, we are up to 87.5 hours per week, without any breaks for lunch. At 5 days a week, thats 17.5 hours a day without any break, at 6 days a week, thats 14.6 hours a day without any break.
@TheBaseballdoc 8 pv/hour? You're confusing a chiropractic office with that of a medical practice. A busy chiropractic doctor can attend to 25+ practice members/hour. DC's take a complete history and perform a comprehensive evaluation/examination, but don't sit very long discussing symptoms, do blood-lettings, and collect piss. My collegues see 1000-3000 pv/week...by themselves. When you understand the function of chiropracxtic as the detection then correction of vertebral subluxations....
Members.I love it.I wonder if you wouldn't mind posting the website for your practice?.I suppose no exam is complete until you drop the keys.How many rooms/tables? Or adjustment suite, is it? Parking lot must be huge...lol...Usually, when talking numbers with DCs, the rule is to divide whatever they tell you by 3.with you, I'm betting its closer to 10, if not 20.I bet you are all cash too and thriving in this economy..I don't understand why DCs only see about 10% of population..Oh wait, I do
@TheBaseballdoc I won't post my website. My consultation/exam likely exceeds that of an MD. Were you aware that due to chiropractics advanced training, many medical school employ DC's as their anatomy/physiology instructors? My office has four care rooms, each with two tables. Yes, it shares a large parking lot. Your envy of chiropractic delights me, whilst saddened by your jealousy of its achievements and utilization. Your dissapointment in medicine is understandable...I feel sorry for you.
I KNOW why you won't post your website. I have exposed many a DC over the years for the liars they are at their core. Please tell me one or two of the many medical schools that employs a DC based solely on the DC degree with no other degree in the related subject matter. One wonders why a DC would teach when he can do 1000+ member visits a week. I am not envious or jealous of anyone who must rely on fables and delusions to further their scam (transference of your own self-loathing perhaps?)
@TheBaseballdoc You are not well and exposed no one but yourself amidst self loathing. Your monitoring of this video is evidence in itself. Please, do something constructive, visit a chiropractic school or busy practice. Shadow the doctor and see what amazing transformations occur through safe-effective chiropractic care. We know you're not an MD, as one would not be so unprofessional, waste their time, nor harbour thoughts such as yours. Please seek good-necessary chiropractic care. Peace.
And your monitoring of this video is evidence of what exactly? I haven't been to this site in months (see prior posts). You engaged me last week and have been making assertions and claims but have not backed them up..(DCs without other credentials as anatomy professors at med schools?)
How about you invite me to visit your busy practice? If what you are claiming is true, you should welcome the opportunity to teach me a few things.
@TheBaseballdoc I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...Being that I'm a doctor of chiropractic (DC), it's natural that I attend to this chiropractic video. Chiro's as anatomy/physiology professors? MD's becoming DC's? Then Google: "The Grisanti Report" or "Dr. Bruley Goes to Chiropractic School". Try read these for a wake up call. I'd invite you to my practice but for obvious reasons I don't trust your emotional state to maintain proper decorum. You're a sick person. Please seek help..
Thanks..I looked at one Grisanti report.1271..really? 2 to 3 years of sub specialty training after DC school? Sounds intense...Does his description make it sound harder or easier than it is? I thought it was just basically a few weekend seminars per year..oh wait, it is.. I have also seen some of the exams..A sophmore phys ed major read can read up and pass..Dynamic chiropractic..your kidding right? But whats your point? Name one or two med schools of the many to support your earlier claim.
@TheBaseballdoc Both Cornell and Einstien medical colleges recently hired the same Doctor of Chiropractic (DC, 2007 graduate of NY Chiropractic College) to teach gross anatomy.
@TheBaseballdoc Is not a DC Cornell's and Einstiens' gross anatomy instructor? The med schools are much more permissive than you in including the DC amongst their staff, and it's sad knowing someone such as yourself has such moral interpitude towards chiropractic, whilst the entire world embraces it. In other words, others sense your illogical indifference that is most certainly based in your unwillingst to share the pie. You want medicine and pharma to continue to have it all.
I have personal knowledge of a DC or two who somehow was invited to do a guest lecture, then suddenly adds "adjunct professor" to their CV. I never said it wasn't possible, though you claimed "many med schools"..then took you a week to find one...though I dont see her listed on the faculty web site for either school.
You state that "the entire world embraces chiropractic". Isnt it about 10% of US population, give or take? And you think I am the illogical one in this exchange?
@TheBaseballdoc Do you wish to allege or have definitive proof that a DC placed "Adjunct Professor" on their CV? I made mention of two med schools of others that employ DC's as instructors. How many must I list before it reaches the threshhold of "Many"? Yes, the world is beginning to embrace chiropractic. many countries have now set up chiropractic schools, most recently China and Spain. The U.S. DHHS estimates by 2015, 4 million more people each year will utilize chiropractic.
I already did..Unlike you, I dont say things unless they are true and accurate, regardless of the medium or audience. You said many, and with authority..and then took a week to come up with one, who isnt even listed on the faculty websites of either school..no one ever asked you to name a few of the many? If so, how did you respond? If not, who the heck has been your audience? If you make a statement like that, you should have the examples readily available in support
@jmj122680. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A study published in the Aug. 15 issue of Spine, states that patients who underwent spinal manipulation improved significantly faster than those who did not. The problem is ortho's and neuro's stumble on this video looking for a laugh against chiro's and get insulted instead. Don't take it that way, the video is to broaden understanding that many patients benefit from chiropractic care. BTW, the study in Spine was performed by MD's!
@jimj122680 To the contrare "Spine Surgeon" (if you really are an MD), you are the quack. Every week a person comes into my office with worse off pain and dysfunction due to "Your Kind". One of my patients recieved 2 million dollars from his wifes death by an orthopedic surgeon. Open up your mind, receive chiropractic care. I take care of gastroenterologists, dentists, RN's, etc. I refer to MD's. So, If your really an MD, get your head out of your arse, wake up, and get adjusted.
Your exactly right, the whole point I made the cartoon is to spoof the conversations that go on when an MD attempts to sway one of my patients away from chiropractic by trying to scare them into thinking chiropractic is unsafe. The whole point of the malpractice issue was so the general public would understand that if chiropractic were as unsafe as some MD's make it out to be, our premiums would be astronomically higher; rather than less than the premiums for car insurance on my Ford truck.
Chiropractic is a safe, rational, non-invasive form of healthcare that utilizes natural methods to assist the body in healing. Yes there are some within the profession that practice out of the box, but so do MDs. The point of this cartoon is that the medical profession continues to misinform the public that chiropractic is dangerous and ineffective, when in fact chiropractic is extremely safe and effective.
It is because of the medical profession that health care costs have sky rocketed and are bankrupting our country. Ordering unnecessary tests, prescribing unnecessary drugs, and performing unnecessary procedures that cost money and have no therapeutic value or scientific validity and actually make a lot of people worse.
And then MDs point their finger at chiropractors and other holistic practitioners as being quacks! I don't think so.
Lots of assumption therapy going on. No matter what manip you get, gravity never goes away; those facets only move about 3mm, so gravity wins; hence, no such thing as maintenance adjustments; that's why the science has never shown such; to assume +ve's has equal weight with assuming -Ve's from repetitive application
These chiropractors are still living in the past with regard to what physical therapists do. Physical therapists perform spinal manipulations and they keep to evidenced based practice. The unfortunate thing is that when chiro's who use manips appropriately get mixed in with those who actually believe they can influence organ systems & believe it's good to manipulate children. GOOGLE ChiroTalk; joint the discussion w/more reasonable chiro's. Too long to discuss here of course.
Can the public trust the chiropractic profession to perform a valid, unbiased study about "chiropractic injuries"? Why hasn't it been done? That's a major difference..science and medicine publishes its ups and downs, all in the search of truth, and doing it better..they get rid of old methods based on new data and better science. And, is the patient who finally sees his MD after going to chiro for 4 months, only to learn from MD that he has multiple myeloma, considered a "chiropractic injury"?
Your only proving my point. Your malpractice is high because according to JAMA, "We estimated that in 1994 overall 2,216,000 (1,721,000-2,711,000) hospitalized patients had serious ADRs and 106,000 (76,000-137,000) had fatal ADRs, making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death." Oooops.....someone forgot to take a good history before they prescribed. Those numbers ONLY count the incidents in hospitals. Mishaps from scripts at home may be more
@DrRamby You really are showing your colors..this is wonderful..its like a mechanic who only changes oil on toyotas comparing his fees and malpractice rates to a mechanic for NASA.. Did you read my first post? This is the circular logic in which chiros dwell...there is absolutely no concrete thinking. One doesn't have to work hard to figure out why you have to resort to misleading videos to convince people to keep coming back for your, what? $45 office fee? Your malpractice had better be low...
@TheBaseballdoc I agree with you hear. Exactly what I was thinking. Look how more diversified the patient population is with M.D.s & how many more people they typically see. Most M.D. prefer other treatments before surgery as well, although there might be some who want to jump to surgery. Also, M.D's know many chiro's go well beyond the realms of science & can't keep to the basics, so they don't want their patient's being treated by someone who is going off on mystical tangents.
@DrRamby MD's see a far greater variety of patients for many many more different reasons, of course they will have to pay more in premiums, etc.. The video makes no sense...as though their paying more in malpractice means something.
@TheBaseballdoc I understand that you find it difficult to admit that study after study found chiropractic both safe and effective. There are plenty of MD induced injuries discovered by DC's. We must work together for patient safety and advizing the appropriate care. 99% of the time the MD believes drugs and surgery is the proper route...when a carpenter sees a nail he wants to nail it in. Be open minded doc. DC for 20, 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/month, refer to MD's. You refer to DC's?
Im sorry, but i am not chasing anything. I am grounded in what I KNOW. Imagine a day or week in your offfice where you could only utter sentences based on what you KNEW, not what you hoped or assumed...and you have already proven it would be tough to tell the difference.
I agree that traditional manipulation is relatively safe. Chiropractic is safe? That's another story entirely.
My only point here is that the video is using malpractice rates to prove safety, which is false and misleading.
My point is mute? OK, i will overlook that one..(the word is "moot") Anyway, thanks for being honest about your lack of knowledge
So essentially all we have learned or demonstrated is that you are the type that makes authoritative comments based on assumptions without adequately and thoroughly researching the topic. That posture only survives in fields like chiropractic, or as you command your "Dr" title around an even less educated public. Otherwise, that video would never be made or released
No my friend. The premise of the video is that many ortho's tell patient's that chiropractors hurt people. If you scroll up I inserted a study that that documents it stating that 44% of ortho's think "negatively" about chiropractors. I'm sorry, I cannot show you a study that documents people who have been seriously injured by chiropractic because the fact is that chiropractic injuries are few and far between.
OMG. The video is using malpractice rates as an example of safety..yes or no? Anyone who knows anything about malpractice insurance KNOWS that this is false and misleading. And by the way, I have personally interviewed more than a few people injured by DCs...two strokes and one missed lumbar fracture, to name a few..and I still think manipulation has its place when properly performed by a properly trained professional, as I have also personally interviewed many people helped by DCs.
This video is demonstrating the common response people have by their medical doctors, which is that chiropractors are quacks and it is not safe. MDs will report that chiropractic is not safe based on anecdotes, like you just did, but will find no shred of evidence to support their opinion. This CARTOON demonstrates this point by highlighting the low malpractice rates that chiropractors pay.
@rnbdc05 OK..Let me help you out. First, do you think, based on the posts I have put on here thus far, that I am the type that bases my opinions on anecdotal information? What do you mean "the way i just did'? I provided a balanced view, anecdotes on both sides...but you chose to only look at one side. Why is that? Also, what happens when you "arm your patient" with the false argument of comparing malpractice rates, and I give him the real, rest of the story, explaining how ridiculous that is?
@TheBaseballdoc The reason by this person only looked at one side of what you said is the same way they validate what they do. If they get 50 people in the office & 5 appear to have benefited in some way, it's not hard for the 45 who did not appear to respond get set aside in one's mind. There's a tendency to focus on the successes and ignore those who did not succeed; it's an uncomfortable feeling to face failure. I help a lot of people w/pain, if I cannot help them, I tell them why I think..
@rnbdc05 Considering that chiro's don't see nearly as many patients as MD's do for more variety of reasons, from cardiac, to pulmonary, neuro, etc.. etc.. it would be ridiculous to think their mal practice would be as low as chiro's. The fact that you would make such a comparison or anyone such as in this video exposes lack of thought or care of science... It's amateurish to think malpractice costs being lower for chiro's has any bearing on anything..
@TheBaseballdoc I've seen at least a dozen in 20 yrs where neck pain has worsened following manips of c/s; apparently some discs w/annular tears were weak enough to be worsened by rotational forces.. I've also seen many people who have had 'preventative maintenance adjustments for yrs on end, and they still have pain & report the pain is worse than ever; when I move their neck it's like sandpaper & glass." Anecdotal yes, but enough to make me concerned with rep application. Note: GRAVITY EXISTS
@TheBaseballdoc search out Dr. Marc Pinto demonstrates Tonal Chiropractic on Child - To me, this, along with several other such examples, is why chiro's are often labeled quacks.
@DrRamby Back up..orthos thinking negatively about chiros has nothing to do with the procedure of manual manipulation..which is performed by other professionals, and increasingly by PTs and Doctors of Physical Therapy..its the rest of the crap embedded in chiropractic..I assume you have seen the patient pamphlets? Bedwetting, dementia, and the rest...Its how many chiropractors "think" about what they do thats the major problem. The use of the video is a clear example of that, and getting clearer
It seems that you have absolutely no idea exactly how insurance rates, specifically malpractice rates, are determined. But to be fair, I should simply ask you. Do you know all the determining factors, etc of exactly how malpractice rates are determined? Not what you think, or believe, or assume...what you KNOW, and provide references in support of your answer please, assuming you wouldn't make an authoritative statement (or make or defend a video) without first researching the issue thoroughly .
All the evidence currently available show that chiropractic is extremely safe. Regardless of our laughable malpractice insurance rates. Your point is mute.
In my ignorance, I would assume that If chiropractors were killing the equivalent of losing one commercial jumbo jet airliner full of about 270 passengers each day (like MDs do) chiropractic insurance rates would be higher. But to answer your question no, I do not know exactly how insurance rates are determined.
The "point" is that malpractice rates don't prove anything, and I have already given a few examples of this contention . Do you agree or disagree and why?
As an aside, as anyone in health care should know, one never discusses risk without simultaneously discussing benefit. That's another topic we can get into after you answer the above question, since that's the basis of the video: "Low malpractice rates prove chiropractic is safe", with which I disagree and have provided examples in support
I do not agree. If chiropractic was harmful and people were getting hurt from what chiropractors do then chiropractors would pay more in insurance. Yes I understand that MDs deal with more life threatening condition's and therefore they pay higher rates. It is also because medical errors kill or seriously injury hundreds of thousands of US citizens every year. Would you say that chiropractors low malpractice insurance rates indicate that chiropractic is not safe?
" Most Chiropractors and M.D.'s work hand in hand for the better of the patient"
LOL....NO THEY DONT DR. RAMBY.....THEY THINK YOUR QUACKS....ANYONE THAT GOES TO CHIROPRACTIC SCHOOL IS CRAZY....NO MONEY....NO RESPECT....IS MAYBE THE MOST PATHETIC AND EMBARRASSING PROFESSION OUT THERE....MY BUDDY JUST QUIT THE PROFESSION AND HE SAID HIS EXPERIENCE IS BEST SUMMED UP BY HIS EXPERIENCE WITH INSURANCE AGENTS...HE WOULD CALL AND AND SAY THIS IS DR. SO AND SO...THEY WOULD LAUGH AND NOT CALL HIM DOCTOR
Anyone who uses malpractice rates between Mds and chiros to prove anything is either ill informed, or purposefully misleading. Chiros have about two dozen diagnoses/conditions they deal with, and eve less procedure code options. MDs deal with the remainder of the very thick ICD9 and CPT book, which is the vast amount by far. Make a chiro a fully fledged, legally bound participant in delivery rooms (as an example), and see what happens to malpractice rates. Any pre-natal/pedi chiros want in?
Good point. But the purpose of the video was that many orth's are trying to convince patient's that chiropractors are dangerous when in fact, chiropractic is a safe discipline as proved by the low malpractice rates.
Your response is chiropractic in a nutshell. First, you say i have a good point. But then you deny its validity, and keep about your original premise (just like the subluxation theory). Low malpractice rates do not PROVE anything...thats the point. If you want to maintain otherwise, we can say (more accurately, in fact), that the low rates are in place because of the very low complexity of decision making in a profession which by and large treats self limiting conditions anyway.
DCs. MDs, PTs and even Shamans etc. are a godsend for many and hell for others. Why not try each and see what works best for you as an individual, and not adhere to a study you were not only not a part of but know nothing of the people in it or the ones doing the research?
Patient's conditions and needs vary too much to put a one-size-fits-all on healthcare. Period.
I read this article on PubMed: 487 surgeons completed the survey (response rate, 49%). North American orthopedic surgeons' attitudes toward chiropractic were diverse, with 44.5% endorsing a negative impression, 29.4% holding favorable views, and 26.1% being neutral.
w w w. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19910864
This study represents what the video is saying....we can pick out studies all day long to bicker back and forth. I think that instead we should work together to get the patient well.
I didn't mean to leave the impression it was all M.D.'s and all Chiropractors. Most Chiropractors and M.D.'s work hand in hand for the better of the patient. There are unfortunately a few out there that are stuck in the old days when the two professions disliked each other. There may only be 3 in the whole world and they all live in my area. Believe me, if I had a condition that only an M.D. could treat I wouldn't hesitate to see one or prevent a single patient from doing the same,
This is very interesting! I did not know the differance in Malpractice was so large between the two. My Medical Doctor recently told me that if I keep going to the chiropractor, he won't be able to keep treating me (even for cold's/flu). He told me that they are all scam artist's and he does not allow his patients to see Chiropractors. But my Chiropractor really helps me. I only go two or three times a year and I dont have all the problems that I used to have. why all the hate from the MDs?
I haven't read that article. But I am not sure I understand what malpractice fraud is. I have never used my malpractice....it's just one of those expenses I pay but at least it's cheaper than the insurance on my truck. It's also cheaper than the farm policy on my house. I would like to point out there are M.D.'s and ortho's that refer patients to me and likewise, I refer patients to them.
You know, it's funny. I just now randomly read an article (trying to scout malpractice insurance) that says fraud is 9 times greater among chiropractors than among physicians, and that twice as many Chiropractors are subject to disciplinary actions than Physicians are.
Thought I'd post here since I saw your shot at MD's and them having "More accidents"
That's why auto insurance is more for a 16 year old male. That group of people have more accidents. Malpractice is more expensive for MD's because they have more accidents.
Thanks....I did it all in fun but it's oh so true....lol A patient told me a week ago that her MD advised her to not see a chiropractor (even if it was helping) because he see's chiroractors hurt people everyday in his practice. If that is true, then why is my malpractice so low and his is so high? Insurance is claims based.
Insurance is claims and income based. There's also a much deeper element to Physicians, who treat a wide variety of illnesses and afflictions that span the science of Chiropractors and goes beyond. It's very unfair to compare the two.
It's like saying someone who drivers 1 specific road gets into less accidents than a guy who drives 1000 roads all the time because the guy who drivers on the 1 specific road is less accident prone.
In the Dec. 2010 edition of The Spine Journal, a study found that after 16 weeks of care, patients referred to MDs saw almost no improvement in their disability, were likely to still be taking pain drugs and saw no benefit with added PT and yet were unlikely to be referred to a DC.
The study is a RCT comparing spinal adjustments by DSs, to MDs care of patients with acute LBP. Researchers found that chiro adjustments show significantly greater improvement compared to medicine.
Which researchers? Who's the study by? Practicing OMM as a Medical Doctor is beneficial. i think that's the path Chiropractors need to go. Why do half of Osteopathy, when you can walk to full path?
Here is the link to the study on pub-med, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20889389 -read it yourself.
Why be an osteopath when you can be an MD and take a weekend course on spinal manipulation. Osteopaths in the US pale in comparison to chiropractors in the art of spinal manipulation. Besides, why would a chiropractor want to be a lap dog to big pharma like MDs.
The link isn't working, but I'm on my phone. I'll check it when I get home.
A weekend course on spinal manipulation? Did you go to Osteopathic Medical School? Probably one of the most ignorant, ridiculous, outlandish comments I've heard about DOs. That's extreme bias on your part. A DO is educated enough to foresee far-reaching effects of musculo-skeletal manipulation, and tie them in with science-based medicine and SUPERIOR organ system know-how. We learn in tandem.
DOs can write a prescription for Lipitor and Prozac, take out a splinter, and maybe stitch up a cut, but do not come close to DCs in spinal manipulation. In terms of hands-on care Chiropractors are the gold standard. Its funny how the medical profession treats chiropractic. When chiropractors perform spinal manipulation it is quackery, but when osteopaths, MDs and PTs do it its called evidence based practice.
A PT's work is totally evidence based. And how about a little respect for those of us who through 4 years of the most hellish and comprehensive medical school you can imagine, and then got stuck doing 4 year 80-hour week residencies for less than minimum wage. "Splinters" and "stitching cuts" are grossly disrespectful ways of categorizing a medical doctor's job. And you prove to be clueless to a DOs osteopathic training. Drugs typically aren't prescribed if they don't need to be.
Chiropractic47, your "facts" have been proven false. That is a direct quote from a person's conspiracy website. The average medical student has a substantially higher gpa, more classroom work, and MUCH higher and rigorous course content. The courses are the same, only in name. I guess I don't find it surprising that a chiropractor doesn't use facts, and instead interjects his own beliefs into how things work.
TheMrTurtlebob 2 months ago
@TheMrTurtlebob Er, what you post is contradictory to the U.S. Dept. of Edu., Dept. of Health and Human Services, Coultour, PhD, Grisanti, etc. The entrance requirements for chiropractic school is greater than that of med school and the curricula for chiropractic is the same but 500 more hours than medical school. FInal answer, you lose. Chiropractic for all!
chiropractic47 1 month ago
@chiropractic47 How about facts instead of misinformation? Please show me this. Why is the chiropractic field dying? It's hilarious that you are so diluted. Have fun with your associateship making less than 20k a year. I wonder what would happen if we removed all the chiro's from the world? I bet our healthcare systsem would collapse, oh wait thats only for doctors. Continue to blurt misnomers and false information. Your parallel with what a chiro does, what a shame.
TheMrTurtlebob 1 month ago
@TheMrTurtlebob The entrance requirementsand curricula for both chiropractic and medical school is published on the internet and I gave you references. According to the Dept. of Commerce and Edu., chiropractic is both the second largest of the primary portal of entry physicians and fastest growing primary health care field in the U.S. In 1990 I was paid $60,000 in my first year of associatship. My solo practice grosses $500,000/year. Those interested in a DC, please contact me.
chiropractic47 1 month ago
@chiropractic47 There is a reason 80% of the population thinks you are quacks. On top of being academically sub-par, you are also a liar. ;) here are some statistics
l - averages
gpa of undergraduate entering chiro - 2.7 gpa of med student entering - 3.6
% of chiros that have a bachelors - 49%
% of Md's that have a bachelors - 98%
average salary of a chiro out of college - 26k
You all also have the highest default rate.
TheMrTurtlebob 1 month ago
@chiropractic47 Also, lol at you using statistics from 1990. You do realize thats not the case right now? Insurance companies are dropping you all like flies because your pseudo-medicine (witchcraft) doesn't do anything. Another chiro school just closed in california. It must be because of all the success you guys are having. If you were paid 60k a year in 1990 then you were in the top 1% of chiro salaries. I would beg to reason that you are a disgruntled chiro who fell prey to ignorance.
TheMrTurtlebob 1 month ago
@TheMrTurtlebob Have you ever been curious as to the underlying cause of your emotional illness? Please read the published research indicting the effectiveness of chiropractic nervous system relaxing spinal adjustnments? Please recieve good and much necessary chiropractic care.
chiropractic47 1 month ago
@chiropractic47 Insecurities run rampant in you. You get proven wrong and turn to personal attacks. Once again, the chiropractic community loses another battle. I read somewhere were you spend hours upon hours replying to e-mails with your delusional belief. I would take a second look at who has the illness. ;) Maybe a real doctor could help you.
TheMrTurtlebob 4 weeks ago
@TheMrTurtlebob Please, don't take my responses to your "Troll posts" as a personal attack upon you. I really wish to help you get over "This". Psych. literature suggests' those who troll accepted health care delivery systems; such as chiropractic, attempt to reconcile alterior motives which contradict their own indifferences. In otherwords Turtlebob, you understand chiropractic as the truth, and we love you for this. Chiropractic loves you Bob. Peace.
chiropractic47 4 weeks ago
@TheMrTurtlebob Please, you need help, and as a doctor, it's incumbent upon me to assure you recieve depression arresting chiropractic care along with multiple sessions with a talk therapist. Medical care via a psychiatrist has proven to be fatal in many instances. Psychogenic drugs only compound the issues at hand. Do you have clergy with whom you may speak? Be well my friend, I am here for you.
chiropractic47 3 weeks ago
The entrance requirements for chiropractic school is more than that of medical school. Medical doctors complete the same curricula but 500 less classroom hours than chiropractic doctors (U.S. Dept of Edu., Coultour, PhD, The Grisanti Report, U.S. Dept of HHS), etc. Every major U.S. and international study concludes that chiropractic is more effective than medicine, osteopathy, and physical therapy for spine pain and dysfunction (Magna Report, U.S. Dept. of HHS, The New Zealand Report, etc.).
chiropractic47 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Do you happen to know the percentage of people who fail to gain entrance into medical school versus those who fail to gain entrance into chiropractic school?
You are citing sources, but in your post below you say that:
"Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything."
Based on your own statement, would you cite any source, much less believe it?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
Chiropractic is the largest and fastest growing of the holistic health care providers. Along with being extremely effective in allowing the body to reach its full potential, it;s also an awesome and rewarding health career choice. Please feel free to ask questions.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
As a result of this good pro=chiropractic Youtube video, I've had two people contact me regarding a career in chiropractic. i'mpleaed to announce that one of these people have taken advantage of my ambassador status to Life University School for Chiropractic. This individual recieved as courtesy of Life; a complimentary airfare and campus accommodations at Life university. On behalf of Life University School for Chiropractic, we wish this special individual a blessed career in chiropractic.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
That didn't happen, though I love the thought of this learned individual asking what he can expect to earn before he takes out all those loans..and maybe he is smart enough to research the DOL, when he asks the admissions officer, he is told "don't worry, we will teach you how to cheat on your taxes",be better if there was some level of competitiveness to get in the school in the first place.. Has anyone ever met anyone who graduated college but couldn't get into chiro school?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Both new chiro students are not he's but ladies. Women make up a good portion of DC sudents and doctors. You cheated on your taxes, so get off your high moral horse. Chiro schools understand the world needs millions of DC's, so there is no better way than to allow most to have a chance in helping the world. Go for it! I feel your panging too be a DC. Go for it! Chiropractic!
chiropractic47 2 months ago
@2053tee I feel sorry for you bozo, I never had an associate in my practice...so let the
"...shit slinging to start..." Last month two MD's and teir chort pharmacists were imprisoned for fraududulent insurance billing and oxycodone trafficing. As the vids author contends, there are a few bad apples in every profession. So, are you Thebaseballdocs' Mini-Me? Good day.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I don't believe that to be true about M.D.'s. I have two M.D. patients. Both are ER docs at two different hospitals. I believe that to be more true about ortho's, specifically spinal ortho's. And the difference is financial incentive. I did my rotation at the VA in Houston where every MD I worked with had a respect for the DC's and vice verse. A lot is going on to close that gap. At one time if you put 10 MD's and 10 DC's in a bar, there was going to be a fight..like army/navy was at 1 time.
DrRamby 2 months ago
OK..I hope you're not purposefully missing my point, but let's cut to the chase ...Based on the entirety of the recent posts, including content, truthfulness, decorum, etc...Is chiro47 someone you are proud to have represent your profession?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc "I hope you're not purposefully missing my point,..." Look at you. Who do you think you are? By far, you're NOT an authority on health nor a mentor in decorum. And admist your terpitude of chiropractic, you appeal to the videos author? You can't be for real!? Anyone reading your posts, with its swill and shit slinging at good and necessary chiropractic, is able to read into the fact that you suffer from emotional illness. Get help sir. You're definitely sick.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
"As you're aware"...LOL..could you really be this stupid? Yes..
I'm betting you see no more than 60 per week +/- 10...and you bring your own lunch from home for obvious reasons...
3000 per week..$7 million a year...
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Now you're really sounding more and more like a failed in school or practice DC or MD... 1000 to 3000 pv/week collects between 1-2.5 million dollars/year. My practices gross collections for 2010 were close to $500,000. So what's your highschool teacher salary? $65k/year? We need teachers, and in some states/districts they should be paid more than what they recieve. See...I'm with you buddy.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
More lies from you...considering the national mean for DC income is $67K..with 90% of DCs making less than $144K annually..and someone as stupid as you made it to the to top 10% huh?
Of course even if I accept your gross collection of $500K in 2010, I can likely show you are lying about everything else...so, lets confirm that $500K is your total office collections for 2010. You're not going to pull out some other number later? Or add an office? Anything else?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc As long as you don't show-off your stupidity and envyor chiropractic...the figures I posted are the truth and remain.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
So, you agree with the numbers I posted regarding chirpractic income, which are from the US Department of Labor?
And you practice alone? No associate? One office only?
You must employ someone though..secretarial? office manager? billing? how many people do you employ?
What percentage of your practice is cash? Personal injury? work comp? medicare? Other insurance?
How many patients per week in 2010 ?
And finally, what are your weekly office hours?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Can't wait to see how this goes...Irregardless of the DOL; DC's gross avge 100k/year, greater majority gross multi six figures. I'm a lone practictioner with sattelite office in wifes hair salon (large cottage on home property). Office manager, two assistants. All share billing, reception, practice member management, internal/external marketing. 35% cash-65% insurance, 10% medicare, 35% comp., 40% reg ins., 15% PI. Nearly 500 pv/week 2010. M-W-F 8-12-3-7 T 3-7 TH-closed S 8-10.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
What do you mean "irregardless of the DOL?"..Their data comes from the IRS...and speaks to gross personal income before taxes (1040)..you dont agree with their numbers? Why?
So 30 hours at one office with 3 full time employees? What about the satellite office? How many hours there? Any employees there?
How many new members per week?
What E/M code do you bill mostly for initial exam?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Regarding the DOL: Hey...does everyone report every single penny they earn? Are the IRS "Number Crunchers" completely accurate? Sattelite office: An hour here an hour there...., no employees, info. is transferred to main office. New members main office: +- 50/month, sattelite office: +-6/month.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
But to get the average to over $100K as you suggest, that would mean that more than half the chiros in the US are hiding about 50% of their income...are you suggesting that to be true? Your own tax habits aside, how do you know more than the IRS and DOL about the income for all DCs in US?
MD general practice avg is $186K and surgeons/specialists is $340K..so total MD mean is around $275K..should we bump that number up proportionally the same as you bumping up the DC income?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc DC can't hide 50% unless they were 50% cash. Many DC's do strictly cash. DC's, DDS's, MD's, etc...all hide some $. It's the American way. So go ahead and bump up DOL income figures +- 20%.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
But I have no evidence to allow for that. And you haven't provided any evidence of the percentage of DCs who are strictly cash, and the source of your claim about that. We have pretty good data from pretty good sources right now..IRS and DOL...looking at 55,000 DC tax returns..why would we, based on the word of one person (you) call them all tax cheats? Actually, though I'm no accountant, when you think of the increase you propose, I imagine it's beyond the tax evasion threshold.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc An unwritten rule of thumb...report every third cash transaction. Today a practice member paid $3000 cash upfront one year (90 visit) stabilization/correction care plan. Ok, let's cut through the chase...when are you going to apply to chiropractic school?
chiropractic47 2 months ago
No, I don't believe that actually happened, but did he get a receipt? Never mind, we will get to that later.
We need to agree on the baseline values for DC income..and by the way, bumping up DOL numbers 20% only brings chiros to about $80K and MDs to $320K..like I originally said, more than half the chiros in US would have to be evading taxes on half their income to get it close to $100K...and in any event the data shows that the avg MD makes 4X the avg DC..you agree with that?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Oh yes it did happen my fair medical friend. This happens frequently with cash/insurance practices. MD's are also leaving the third party payer paradigm. As I mentioned earlier, my practice is 35% cash and shifting in this direction each day. Most pre-pays are set up with a payment plan. The most common pre-pay schedule is $1500 for 6 months (56 visits) correction care schedules. Practice members love it due to not whipping out $20-35 co-pays, etc.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
OK..did the member receive a receipt?
Do you agree with the IRS/DOL data that the average MD makes 4X the average DC?
What E/M code do you bill out most often for initial evaluation?
Do you have x-ray in office? What percentage of new members receive x-rays? Any other ancillary procedures?
What's your charge for a typical office visit (is it 98940?) without any prepay?
Why would someone pay 3K for 90 visits (33 each) when he can pay $1500 for 56 visits (27 each)?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Reciept? Of course. The IRS/DOL data speaks for itsself, not the chiropractic profession. 99212. X-ray. Approx. 50% recieve x-rays. EMG/NCV/US, durable medical equipment, nutritional counseling w/food,vit., food, and mineral supplements. $50 or 98940, without prepay. Each person is unique in how much intensive/corrective care is required.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I may be missing something, but I looked up 99212 and its a re-exam of existing patient code..Thats not the same as initial exam of a new patient, or is it?
What do you mean by "the IRS/DOL data speaks for itself, not the chiropractic profession"?
Doesn't it contain the same class of data for all occupations? Your statement makes no sense to me.
Its either the average DC in US earns about $67K/year, or more than half the profession is hiding more than half their income.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I don't do the billing, 99212 is what came to mind. I'll ask office manager Monday...can you wait till them before you declare me or all DC's liars? Majority of DC's gross well over $100k/year, final answer. All professions hide income, some more, some less.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Your answers are so "chiropractic" in a nutshell..."I don't do the billing..I'll ask the office manager"...are you kidding?
Just because you say "majority of DCs gross well over $100K/yr", doesn't mean its true...especially when we have data from 55,000 tax returns that say otherwise...
Maybe thats how in works in chiro land;anyone can just make a claim that fits their own collective desire and everyone runs with it even in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc True buddy. I've never performed billing. You'll wait till Monday for exam code. Hey wait...you say you're an MD...you must know the code too? Most DC's gross over $100k/year. Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything. Don't be a pub-sucker.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc As i earlier provided, 99212 is indeed the code for an initial evaluation. 99203 is the initial eval. for workers comp.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
99201, 99202, 99203, 99204, and 99205 are new patient initial evaluation codes. 99211, 99212, 99213, 99214, and 99215 are established patient re-evaluation codes.
As I asked earlier, why would you cite any source if your position is, as you already said, " "Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything." ?
Could we learn anything from a profession's student load default rate? Or the student loan default rate of a school, such as Life U?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It seem chiro47 has taken an early holiday getaway. When you return, these issues/questions await you:
1. The manager of your 500 visits per week office thinks that 99212 is an initial evaluation code.
2. You first write that "Published literature doesn't mean an accurate despiction of anything.", and then go on and cite published references.
3. Can we learn anything from the student loan default rate of a profession or school? (even with malpractice rates as low as they are)
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
Your statement:"Each person is unique in how much intensive/corrective care is required." is understood, but doesnt answer as to why that member who you say gave you $3K in cash up front for 90 visits over a year (at $33 per visit) wouldnt have rather chosen to give you $1500 for 56 visits over six months ($27 per visit) and then another $1500 in six months, which gives him 112 visits for the same $3K...Why would anyone choose to pay more, and pay it up front, for less service?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc It was determined that practice member required one year intensive then corrective care rather than six months. Each plan gives different care graduation dates and ancillary sevices. Your confusion with chiropractic care and schedules is understandable given your lifelong exposure to that of allopathy. You're not going to like this but...today a new practice member pre-paid $2300 for 6 months care plus spinal decompression therapy...sorry.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
That didn't happen either....
How much time does it take for you to explain these various plans with your new members? Especially the one where they have to pay more money for less treatments?
So you have a VAX-D too? I suppose your going to tell me its been developed and approved at NASA now? What room is that in? LMAO
Chiros are so used to speweing bs, they don't know when to stop, and often forget there is a thinking world out there...
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Yes it happened amigo. Last year I recieved a PM then call from a Canadian university lady grad aiming for Canadian Memorial Chiropractic. I successfully aimed her to Life Chiro. In September another called me from Connecticut. She's working on her pre-req. for Bridgeport Chiro. A true happy story for chiropractic.. a sad one for you. Sorry, I'm not lying. People feel how passionate I am for chiropracrtic and my success. They too will be successful. Chiropractic!!
chiropractic47 2 months ago
@DrRamby As you're aware, Baseballdoc and305t3 are here primarily to defame both your good video and chiropractic. All that I posted regarding the success and scope of mine and my chiropactic friend's practices is true. Under a strict agreement between you and, I'll allow you to either visit or speak with those who will substantiate this. I came here in awe and peace for chiropractic, whilst TheBaseballdoc stands waitng to sling his nonsense and contempt for chiropractic. Please block him.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I don't even know that doc and have never heard of him. He has nothing to do with this video. I agree that there are a few bad apples in every group. A few bad MD's, a few bad chiro's, a few bad lawyers, a few bad judges, etc. The video has nothing to do one one particular person but more of a group as a whole. I refer back and forth with a few good MD's every day. This video is to enlighten those ortho's who don't realize that chiropractic chiro malpractice is less than their car insurance
DrRamby 2 months ago
But at the heart of your video DrRamby is the reluctance or refusal of some MDs to refer to DCs...and malpractice rates don't even come close to rationalizing anything about referrals in any scenario, one way or the other...but I hope you can agree with more conviction than you did in your recent post, that chiro47 is one of the many poster children who enable numerous MDs and other professionals to consider most chiropractors to be ignorant and under-educated buffoons.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc No one enables an MD. Whilst in their fantacy world, they distance themselves from chiropractic due to their indoctrinization into allopathy/medicine; which dsables their ability to understand differences and change in the health care arena. The tide is changing, it's chiropractic doctors who are beginning to pick and choose MD's to confer/ and refer. The vids author states this elegantly to you in one of his posts.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Has anyone else here picked up on the "TheBaseballdoc"? Though he calims to be an MD, it turns out he's a highschool debate and baseball coach. Talk about advanced schizophrenia with narsassitic overtones? Whoa, dudes a "card".
chiropractic47 2 months ago
More freshman debate from you? The attempt to appeal for help from the crowd? And using your limited conversational knowledge of medical terms (that you can't even spell correctly)? Stick to impressing uninformed people at parties.
I look forward to someone coming up with the math and aligning themselves with you in our exchange.
3000 members per week..$7 million a year
Am I an MD? Retired MD? Neither? Does it matter? You are a liar, plain and simple, and have no standing.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc What are you doing back here! Didn't I refer you for psych help?
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Yawn...Now you're Joe Pesci? LOL
I'm waiting for someone to corroborate your numbers..if not a chiro, maybe someone from US Department of Labor...amazing statistical unit there
3000 members a week..$7 million a year
Only 42,000 people in York, PA...with 40 chiropractic offices...
Your pals office hours: 27.5 office hours per week.. including that ever required one hour on saturday to squeeze in another 100 members...
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Kevin and Selina Jackson see 250 people/day, 40 people within that one hour on saturday. Ooops! This must piss you off?
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Well, its a far cry from 3000 a week solo,, but before we delve further...250 per day each? or combined?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Ben Lerner, DC of NYC sees 1500 pv/week. Robert Schiffman, DC sees 2000-3000 pv/week, Kevin Jackso DC of York PA, sees 1000 pv/week, thousands more see over 1000 pv/week. My practice will break 500 pv/week this new year.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
No...your practice won't.
Now you are back to 3000 per week? We have already extablished your lying (or duped yourself) about schiffman. Even if we allow for a slow week and a private helicopter transport between his two offices that are 75 miles apart from each other, he would have to see a minimum of 100 patients an hour...
Jackson would have to see a minimum of 35 pv/hour in York PA
Before we get to Lerner, are you or any of these chiros billing Medicare or any insurer?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc You're envy and jealousy of chiropractic's success is appreciated. Be well.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
LOL...I thought the insurance question would scare you away, but not so quickly.
You started this by claiming to already see 500 pv/week and 50 new patients per month, then weeks later you claim your practice will get there this year.
We didnt even figure in new patients for schiff and friends...if we factor 10 new patients a week, thats 10 hours devoted to 10 patients, initial consult and exam and the second visit report of findings or are those visits 45 seconds each as well?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Shmuck, we spoke of my practice reaching the levels of those seeing 1000 pv/week. It was here that I mentioned my practice should exceed 500 pv/week this new year. You will not understand how a new practice member is handled whilst utilizing an allopathic/medical approach. Many chiropractic practices have more than one doctor (Jackson), making it simpler to handle new practice members. Most busy practices recieve between 25 and 100+ new practice members/month.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Welcome back my little chiro dunce...fortunately, the internent lives forever, so here is your exact quote copied and pasted:
"I've been a DC for 20 years, see 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/week, adjust babies to geeriatrics, pay $2000/year malpractice with never a claim."
Check yourself..later you corrected to 50 new members per month.
Now, are you and your pals billing Medicare or any third party insurer for your 45 second long patient visits? What E/M and treatment codes?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc LOL! You correctly quoted me and the information did'nt change? 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/month. Of course very busy chiropractic offices bill Medicare for our 90 second to 3 minute patient visit. Medicare pays only for the chiropractic spinal adjustment. Lovin Chiropractic!
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Your quote is 50 new patients per week...but even 50 new patients per month is an exaggeration, consistent with your other lies.
So now some patients must be getting 15 second treatments to make up for the "wasted time" with the Medicare patients, huh? Otherwise how could anyone "see" the 35 to 100 per hour you have repeatedly claimed in order to get to 1000 per week in 27 hours (jackson) or 3000 per week in 19 hours (shiffman)?
Your bs speaks right to the heart of this video.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Shmuck, I sense in between the time you spend jerking-off to this video, you've visited chiropractic publications, sbstantiating all that I've claimed. If now I can only get you to recieve talk therapy.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
You of all people, should know how to spell "schmuck". I don't need to see any chiropractic publications to prove you are a liar..all I need is a stopwatch and common sense.
I have seen many chiropractic publications, mostly propaganda in my view, but I prefer to have any questions answered by state boards and licensing authorities.
Even the producer of this video, DrRamby, seems to be distancing himself from you...
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Hey, I guess it all boils down to the fact that it takes a "shmuck" to know how to spell "Schmuck"? So, let's not waste any time expecting you to read chiropractic publications. What about the numerous govt. and medical studies substantiating chiropractic? Go ahead medic, choose your flavor....
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I curious what any of these questions have to do with the video? I've posted studies from Spine that state that patients get better faster with manipulation. Studies performed by MD's. The video simply states that chiro malpractice is in a lot of cases pennies on the dollar compared to an ortho. I don't tell patients not to see an ortho. Ortho's tell patients not to see me. They come anyway...and end up not needing the surgery they were recommended. The video just points this out.
DrRamby 2 months ago
I've been meaning to ask...why each week are dozens of MD's and their pharmacists cohorts arrested for oxycodone, etc. trafficing? Don't they make good enough of a living?
chiropractic47 2 months ago
would you like me to begin posting the links to all the chiro arrests and insurance fraud charges?
Are you trying to divert attention from your original false assertion of the 3000 per week..or what are we down to now...100?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Hey...you don't have to be too defensive. I didn't aim the MD and pharmacist drug trafficking arrests towards you. It was in the "All Comments" section that I made the post...so, what's on your mind...feeling a little guilty? What did you do? Come-on, get it off your chest...we're here for you.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Who's we? U I thought by now a few of your colleagues would do some math and show the rational world how they believe 3000 members per week...by themselves...
Sticking with your claim of 3000 members per week..? Don't forget the "by themselves"..
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Sure! Post links for both the DC and MD...be fair now, ok? Schiffman, Sigafoose, jackson, etc. see between 1000-3000 pv/week...final answer, LOL!
chiropractic47 2 months ago
We back to 19 hours per week in south bend schiffman? with the 90 minute drive to his other office in munster?? c'mon...
One thing's for sure..the 15 students (and some faculty) whom I teach in high school debate class and have been following our exchange will never see a DC...
One sophmore asked a good question...but I doubt you will answer..: Why is it that you refuse to post your own practice website, yet you have no problem posting the names of your friends and colleagues?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Thanks to your sick and twisted mind the students will seek chiropractic care...You brought it to them and they're embarrassed. They won't tell you for fear of retaliation. Sadly, before your only audience you denegrate chiropractic as a means to vindicate your low selfesteem. Hopefully, the school administration will be made privy to your malfeasance and poor influence upon the students. Word seems to get around. And you wish me to post my website? You're sick!
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Unlike the schools you slept through, I don't teach students WHAT to think, but HOW to think...they make up their own minds..teach them to do research, (including simple math)..and how to not be distracted by your opponent's (supposedly a professional doctor in this case) use of insults, lack of ability to do simple math, and constant attempts to distract from his original lie.
They are better equipped to formulate their own opinions as they make school and career choices. thanks
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Pardon me sir, you're no teacher nor role model. Your presence here, posting on this pro-chiropracc video, is enough of a indicator to trigger most to distance themselves from you. It's you, not the students you allege to coach in debate, that needs urgent help. Please cease your sick posting activity and recieve mental health counseling. There is good in most of us... there may be still hope for you. Peace.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Again you trying to use debate strategy 101, but sadly your attempt to be civil is made transparent by your prior posts. Also, the fact that you are afraid to post your own website, yet readily post names of colleagues and friends shows even more of what we already know about you
3000 a week by themselves
Teaching young minds how to use science and common sense so that they don't fall prey to hucksters and quacks such as yourself..an educated public is chiro's worst nightmare.
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Jerk, why don't you post your own info.? Let's see the wimp behind his sick thoughts. What's stopping you from contacting my collegues? What's the matter punk? Are you just a pussy hiding behind his PC? You're here because the world is on the cusp of utilizing chiropractic. You're concerned and scared, and rightfully so. It's assholes such as yourself who selfishly monopolize. The people want chiropractic and we will give it to them. And you claim to debate? Jerk.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
Well, your attempt at civility didn't last long, did it?
3000 visits per week..by themselves...
Here are the questions for the quiz on our exercise:
Why would anyone have to grossly exaggerate how busy they are? What could one reasonably deduce from the language or style used? Would you trust someone like that with your health? Why or why not? Though our example used alternative practitioners, how can this experience be applied to other areas of life's choices and decisions?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Hopefully you're recieving mental health care from a psychologist or talk therapist. If yes, now is the time to call him/her to keep them in the loop. Are you taking psych. meds? If yes, they're likely not the answer to your mental health issues. Plese call your therapist and recieve nervous system relaxing chiropractic care.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
3000 members per week..allowing for vacations and holidays, thats 140, 000 visits per year...at $50 a pop?? thats $7 million a year...not bad...lol
Why would I, or anyone for that matter, accept advice from a liar? But I must say you have helped with our little experiment, as I suspected you would. You post to me that started this came at the perfect time..must have been universal intelligence at work..
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
I've been a DC for 20 years, see 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/week, adjust babies to geeriatrics, pay $2000/year malpractice with never a claim. Chiropractic doctors complete the same subjects but 500 more hours than MD's. The science is there supporting chiropractic whilst only 15% of science supports medicine. The pharmaceutical companies write half the medical school curricula, medicine is the fourth largest cause of death in the world....and the medics here want to bash chiropractic?
chiropractic47 3 months ago
Normally, I would ask for your office hours first, but let's do some math...500 pv/week, even at 8 pv/hour equals 62.5 hours...add that to 50 new patients per week, even assuming a new patient gets only a half hour, that's another 25 hours. So, we are up to 87.5 hours per week, without any breaks for lunch. At 5 days a week, thats 17.5 hours a day without any break, at 6 days a week, thats 14.6 hours a day without any break.
You must be tired. Or lying.
TheBaseballdoc 3 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc 8 pv/hour? You're confusing a chiropractic office with that of a medical practice. A busy chiropractic doctor can attend to 25+ practice members/hour. DC's take a complete history and perform a comprehensive evaluation/examination, but don't sit very long discussing symptoms, do blood-lettings, and collect piss. My collegues see 1000-3000 pv/week...by themselves. When you understand the function of chiropracxtic as the detection then correction of vertebral subluxations....
chiropractic47 3 months ago
Members.I love it.I wonder if you wouldn't mind posting the website for your practice?.I suppose no exam is complete until you drop the keys.How many rooms/tables? Or adjustment suite, is it? Parking lot must be huge...lol...Usually, when talking numbers with DCs, the rule is to divide whatever they tell you by 3.with you, I'm betting its closer to 10, if not 20.I bet you are all cash too and thriving in this economy..I don't understand why DCs only see about 10% of population..Oh wait, I do
TheBaseballdoc 3 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I won't post my website. My consultation/exam likely exceeds that of an MD. Were you aware that due to chiropractics advanced training, many medical school employ DC's as their anatomy/physiology instructors? My office has four care rooms, each with two tables. Yes, it shares a large parking lot. Your envy of chiropractic delights me, whilst saddened by your jealousy of its achievements and utilization. Your dissapointment in medicine is understandable...I feel sorry for you.
chiropractic47 3 months ago
I KNOW why you won't post your website. I have exposed many a DC over the years for the liars they are at their core. Please tell me one or two of the many medical schools that employs a DC based solely on the DC degree with no other degree in the related subject matter. One wonders why a DC would teach when he can do 1000+ member visits a week. I am not envious or jealous of anyone who must rely on fables and delusions to further their scam (transference of your own self-loathing perhaps?)
TheBaseballdoc 3 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc You are not well and exposed no one but yourself amidst self loathing. Your monitoring of this video is evidence in itself. Please, do something constructive, visit a chiropractic school or busy practice. Shadow the doctor and see what amazing transformations occur through safe-effective chiropractic care. We know you're not an MD, as one would not be so unprofessional, waste their time, nor harbour thoughts such as yours. Please seek good-necessary chiropractic care. Peace.
chiropractic47 3 months ago
And your monitoring of this video is evidence of what exactly? I haven't been to this site in months (see prior posts). You engaged me last week and have been making assertions and claims but have not backed them up..(DCs without other credentials as anatomy professors at med schools?)
How about you invite me to visit your busy practice? If what you are claiming is true, you should welcome the opportunity to teach me a few things.
TheBaseballdoc 3 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...Being that I'm a doctor of chiropractic (DC), it's natural that I attend to this chiropractic video. Chiro's as anatomy/physiology professors? MD's becoming DC's? Then Google: "The Grisanti Report" or "Dr. Bruley Goes to Chiropractic School". Try read these for a wake up call. I'd invite you to my practice but for obvious reasons I don't trust your emotional state to maintain proper decorum. You're a sick person. Please seek help..
chiropractic47 3 months ago
Thanks..I looked at one Grisanti report.1271..really? 2 to 3 years of sub specialty training after DC school? Sounds intense...Does his description make it sound harder or easier than it is? I thought it was just basically a few weekend seminars per year..oh wait, it is.. I have also seen some of the exams..A sophmore phys ed major read can read up and pass..Dynamic chiropractic..your kidding right? But whats your point? Name one or two med schools of the many to support your earlier claim.
TheBaseballdoc 3 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Both Cornell and Einstien medical colleges recently hired the same Doctor of Chiropractic (DC, 2007 graduate of NY Chiropractic College) to teach gross anatomy.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
So KD is one of the many? How long do you think it will be until either school updates their faculty listings to include her?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Is not a DC Cornell's and Einstiens' gross anatomy instructor? The med schools are much more permissive than you in including the DC amongst their staff, and it's sad knowing someone such as yourself has such moral interpitude towards chiropractic, whilst the entire world embraces it. In other words, others sense your illogical indifference that is most certainly based in your unwillingst to share the pie. You want medicine and pharma to continue to have it all.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I have personal knowledge of a DC or two who somehow was invited to do a guest lecture, then suddenly adds "adjunct professor" to their CV. I never said it wasn't possible, though you claimed "many med schools"..then took you a week to find one...though I dont see her listed on the faculty web site for either school.
You state that "the entire world embraces chiropractic". Isnt it about 10% of US population, give or take? And you think I am the illogical one in this exchange?
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc Do you wish to allege or have definitive proof that a DC placed "Adjunct Professor" on their CV? I made mention of two med schools of others that employ DC's as instructors. How many must I list before it reaches the threshhold of "Many"? Yes, the world is beginning to embrace chiropractic. many countries have now set up chiropractic schools, most recently China and Spain. The U.S. DHHS estimates by 2015, 4 million more people each year will utilize chiropractic.
chiropractic47 2 months ago
I already did..Unlike you, I dont say things unless they are true and accurate, regardless of the medium or audience. You said many, and with authority..and then took a week to come up with one, who isnt even listed on the faculty websites of either school..no one ever asked you to name a few of the many? If so, how did you respond? If not, who the heck has been your audience? If you make a statement like that, you should have the examples readily available in support
TheBaseballdoc 2 months ago
QUACKERY! People are you that gullible? "Adjustments"? QUACKS! Period! This is TOTAL BS!
mgallant01 5 months ago
Chiropractic is amazing! Cured my headaches!
9pt9 5 months ago
@jmj122680. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. A study published in the Aug. 15 issue of Spine, states that patients who underwent spinal manipulation improved significantly faster than those who did not. The problem is ortho's and neuro's stumble on this video looking for a laugh against chiro's and get insulted instead. Don't take it that way, the video is to broaden understanding that many patients benefit from chiropractic care. BTW, the study in Spine was performed by MD's!
DrRamby 6 months ago
I'm a Spine Surgeon. Chiros are a joke. Don't go to one unless you want to destroy your spine.
jimj122680 6 months ago
@jimj122680 To the contrare "Spine Surgeon" (if you really are an MD), you are the quack. Every week a person comes into my office with worse off pain and dysfunction due to "Your Kind". One of my patients recieved 2 million dollars from his wifes death by an orthopedic surgeon. Open up your mind, receive chiropractic care. I take care of gastroenterologists, dentists, RN's, etc. I refer to MD's. So, If your really an MD, get your head out of your arse, wake up, and get adjusted.
chiropractic47 3 months ago
@jimj122680
That is the pot calling the kettle black.
rnbdc05 2 months ago
Yes homeopathic medicine is safer than pharma drugs....the difference is.....one actually works.
theUSER101 7 months ago
Your exactly right, the whole point I made the cartoon is to spoof the conversations that go on when an MD attempts to sway one of my patients away from chiropractic by trying to scare them into thinking chiropractic is unsafe. The whole point of the malpractice issue was so the general public would understand that if chiropractic were as unsafe as some MD's make it out to be, our premiums would be astronomically higher; rather than less than the premiums for car insurance on my Ford truck.
DrRamby 8 months ago
Chiropractic is a safe, rational, non-invasive form of healthcare that utilizes natural methods to assist the body in healing. Yes there are some within the profession that practice out of the box, but so do MDs. The point of this cartoon is that the medical profession continues to misinform the public that chiropractic is dangerous and ineffective, when in fact chiropractic is extremely safe and effective.
rnbdc05 8 months ago
It is because of the medical profession that health care costs have sky rocketed and are bankrupting our country. Ordering unnecessary tests, prescribing unnecessary drugs, and performing unnecessary procedures that cost money and have no therapeutic value or scientific validity and actually make a lot of people worse.
And then MDs point their finger at chiropractors and other holistic practitioners as being quacks! I don't think so.
rnbdc05 8 months ago
Lots of assumption therapy going on. No matter what manip you get, gravity never goes away; those facets only move about 3mm, so gravity wins; hence, no such thing as maintenance adjustments; that's why the science has never shown such; to assume +ve's has equal weight with assuming -Ve's from repetitive application
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
These chiropractors are still living in the past with regard to what physical therapists do. Physical therapists perform spinal manipulations and they keep to evidenced based practice. The unfortunate thing is that when chiro's who use manips appropriately get mixed in with those who actually believe they can influence organ systems & believe it's good to manipulate children. GOOGLE ChiroTalk; joint the discussion w/more reasonable chiro's. Too long to discuss here of course.
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
Can the public trust the chiropractic profession to perform a valid, unbiased study about "chiropractic injuries"? Why hasn't it been done? That's a major difference..science and medicine publishes its ups and downs, all in the search of truth, and doing it better..they get rid of old methods based on new data and better science. And, is the patient who finally sees his MD after going to chiro for 4 months, only to learn from MD that he has multiple myeloma, considered a "chiropractic injury"?
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
Your only proving my point. Your malpractice is high because according to JAMA, "We estimated that in 1994 overall 2,216,000 (1,721,000-2,711,000) hospitalized patients had serious ADRs and 106,000 (76,000-137,000) had fatal ADRs, making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death." Oooops.....someone forgot to take a good history before they prescribed. Those numbers ONLY count the incidents in hospitals. Mishaps from scripts at home may be more
DrRamby 10 months ago
@DrRamby You really are showing your colors..this is wonderful..its like a mechanic who only changes oil on toyotas comparing his fees and malpractice rates to a mechanic for NASA.. Did you read my first post? This is the circular logic in which chiros dwell...there is absolutely no concrete thinking. One doesn't have to work hard to figure out why you have to resort to misleading videos to convince people to keep coming back for your, what? $45 office fee? Your malpractice had better be low...
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I agree with you hear. Exactly what I was thinking. Look how more diversified the patient population is with M.D.s & how many more people they typically see. Most M.D. prefer other treatments before surgery as well, although there might be some who want to jump to surgery. Also, M.D's know many chiro's go well beyond the realms of science & can't keep to the basics, so they don't want their patient's being treated by someone who is going off on mystical tangents.
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc meant to say ..here... not hear..
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@DrRamby MD's see a far greater variety of patients for many many more different reasons, of course they will have to pay more in premiums, etc.. The video makes no sense...as though their paying more in malpractice means something.
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I understand that you find it difficult to admit that study after study found chiropractic both safe and effective. There are plenty of MD induced injuries discovered by DC's. We must work together for patient safety and advizing the appropriate care. 99% of the time the MD believes drugs and surgery is the proper route...when a carpenter sees a nail he wants to nail it in. Be open minded doc. DC for 20, 500 pv/week @ 50 new patients/month, refer to MD's. You refer to DC's?
chiropractic47 3 months ago
Im sorry, but i am not chasing anything. I am grounded in what I KNOW. Imagine a day or week in your offfice where you could only utter sentences based on what you KNEW, not what you hoped or assumed...and you have already proven it would be tough to tell the difference.
I agree that traditional manipulation is relatively safe. Chiropractic is safe? That's another story entirely.
My only point here is that the video is using malpractice rates to prove safety, which is false and misleading.
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
My point is mute? OK, i will overlook that one..(the word is "moot") Anyway, thanks for being honest about your lack of knowledge
So essentially all we have learned or demonstrated is that you are the type that makes authoritative comments based on assumptions without adequately and thoroughly researching the topic. That posture only survives in fields like chiropractic, or as you command your "Dr" title around an even less educated public. Otherwise, that video would never be made or released
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
You are missing the point and chasing a red herring. The point is chiropractic is extremely safe.
rnbdc05 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
No my friend. The premise of the video is that many ortho's tell patient's that chiropractors hurt people. If you scroll up I inserted a study that that documents it stating that 44% of ortho's think "negatively" about chiropractors. I'm sorry, I cannot show you a study that documents people who have been seriously injured by chiropractic because the fact is that chiropractic injuries are few and far between.
DrRamby 10 months ago
@DrRamby
OMG. The video is using malpractice rates as an example of safety..yes or no? Anyone who knows anything about malpractice insurance KNOWS that this is false and misleading. And by the way, I have personally interviewed more than a few people injured by DCs...two strokes and one missed lumbar fracture, to name a few..and I still think manipulation has its place when properly performed by a properly trained professional, as I have also personally interviewed many people helped by DCs.
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
This video is demonstrating the common response people have by their medical doctors, which is that chiropractors are quacks and it is not safe. MDs will report that chiropractic is not safe based on anecdotes, like you just did, but will find no shred of evidence to support their opinion. This CARTOON demonstrates this point by highlighting the low malpractice rates that chiropractors pay.
rnbdc05 10 months ago
@rnbdc05 OK..Let me help you out. First, do you think, based on the posts I have put on here thus far, that I am the type that bases my opinions on anecdotal information? What do you mean "the way i just did'? I provided a balanced view, anecdotes on both sides...but you chose to only look at one side. Why is that? Also, what happens when you "arm your patient" with the false argument of comparing malpractice rates, and I give him the real, rest of the story, explaining how ridiculous that is?
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc The reason by this person only looked at one side of what you said is the same way they validate what they do. If they get 50 people in the office & 5 appear to have benefited in some way, it's not hard for the 45 who did not appear to respond get set aside in one's mind. There's a tendency to focus on the successes and ignore those who did not succeed; it's an uncomfortable feeling to face failure. I help a lot of people w/pain, if I cannot help them, I tell them why I think..
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc continued... I tell them why I think I could not help them... with their pain and suggest alternatives..
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@rnbdc05 Considering that chiro's don't see nearly as many patients as MD's do for more variety of reasons, from cardiac, to pulmonary, neuro, etc.. etc.. it would be ridiculous to think their mal practice would be as low as chiro's. The fact that you would make such a comparison or anyone such as in this video exposes lack of thought or care of science... It's amateurish to think malpractice costs being lower for chiro's has any bearing on anything..
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc I've seen at least a dozen in 20 yrs where neck pain has worsened following manips of c/s; apparently some discs w/annular tears were weak enough to be worsened by rotational forces.. I've also seen many people who have had 'preventative maintenance adjustments for yrs on end, and they still have pain & report the pain is worse than ever; when I move their neck it's like sandpaper & glass." Anecdotal yes, but enough to make me concerned with rep application. Note: GRAVITY EXISTS
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc search out Dr. Marc Pinto demonstrates Tonal Chiropractic on Child - To me, this, along with several other such examples, is why chiro's are often labeled quacks.
WingThaiJ 8 months ago
@DrRamby Back up..orthos thinking negatively about chiros has nothing to do with the procedure of manual manipulation..which is performed by other professionals, and increasingly by PTs and Doctors of Physical Therapy..its the rest of the crap embedded in chiropractic..I assume you have seen the patient pamphlets? Bedwetting, dementia, and the rest...Its how many chiropractors "think" about what they do thats the major problem. The use of the video is a clear example of that, and getting clearer
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
It seems that you have absolutely no idea exactly how insurance rates, specifically malpractice rates, are determined. But to be fair, I should simply ask you. Do you know all the determining factors, etc of exactly how malpractice rates are determined? Not what you think, or believe, or assume...what you KNOW, and provide references in support of your answer please, assuming you wouldn't make an authoritative statement (or make or defend a video) without first researching the issue thoroughly .
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
All the evidence currently available show that chiropractic is extremely safe. Regardless of our laughable malpractice insurance rates. Your point is mute.
In my ignorance, I would assume that If chiropractors were killing the equivalent of losing one commercial jumbo jet airliner full of about 270 passengers each day (like MDs do) chiropractic insurance rates would be higher. But to answer your question no, I do not know exactly how insurance rates are determined.
rnbdc05 10 months ago
The "point" is that malpractice rates don't prove anything, and I have already given a few examples of this contention . Do you agree or disagree and why?
As an aside, as anyone in health care should know, one never discusses risk without simultaneously discussing benefit. That's another topic we can get into after you answer the above question, since that's the basis of the video: "Low malpractice rates prove chiropractic is safe", with which I disagree and have provided examples in support
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
I do not agree. If chiropractic was harmful and people were getting hurt from what chiropractors do then chiropractors would pay more in insurance. Yes I understand that MDs deal with more life threatening condition's and therefore they pay higher rates. It is also because medical errors kill or seriously injury hundreds of thousands of US citizens every year. Would you say that chiropractors low malpractice insurance rates indicate that chiropractic is not safe?
rnbdc05 10 months ago
" Most Chiropractors and M.D.'s work hand in hand for the better of the patient"
LOL....NO THEY DONT DR. RAMBY.....THEY THINK YOUR QUACKS....ANYONE THAT GOES TO CHIROPRACTIC SCHOOL IS CRAZY....NO MONEY....NO RESPECT....IS MAYBE THE MOST PATHETIC AND EMBARRASSING PROFESSION OUT THERE....MY BUDDY JUST QUIT THE PROFESSION AND HE SAID HIS EXPERIENCE IS BEST SUMMED UP BY HIS EXPERIENCE WITH INSURANCE AGENTS...HE WOULD CALL AND AND SAY THIS IS DR. SO AND SO...THEY WOULD LAUGH AND NOT CALL HIM DOCTOR
sinker0 10 months ago
Anyone who uses malpractice rates between Mds and chiros to prove anything is either ill informed, or purposefully misleading. Chiros have about two dozen diagnoses/conditions they deal with, and eve less procedure code options. MDs deal with the remainder of the very thick ICD9 and CPT book, which is the vast amount by far. Make a chiro a fully fledged, legally bound participant in delivery rooms (as an example), and see what happens to malpractice rates. Any pre-natal/pedi chiros want in?
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
@TheBaseballdoc
Good point. But the purpose of the video was that many orth's are trying to convince patient's that chiropractors are dangerous when in fact, chiropractic is a safe discipline as proved by the low malpractice rates.
DrRamby 10 months ago
@DrRamby
Your response is chiropractic in a nutshell. First, you say i have a good point. But then you deny its validity, and keep about your original premise (just like the subluxation theory). Low malpractice rates do not PROVE anything...thats the point. If you want to maintain otherwise, we can say (more accurately, in fact), that the low rates are in place because of the very low complexity of decision making in a profession which by and large treats self limiting conditions anyway.
TheBaseballdoc 10 months ago
Dave, I agree with you 100%!
DrRamby 11 months ago
DCs. MDs, PTs and even Shamans etc. are a godsend for many and hell for others. Why not try each and see what works best for you as an individual, and not adhere to a study you were not only not a part of but know nothing of the people in it or the ones doing the research?
Patient's conditions and needs vary too much to put a one-size-fits-all on healthcare. Period.
daveluvNYC 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
love this!!!!!!!!!!!! stupid MD's!
nickers5587 11 months ago
Great Video!
jeffmara 11 months ago
I read this article on PubMed: 487 surgeons completed the survey (response rate, 49%). North American orthopedic surgeons' attitudes toward chiropractic were diverse, with 44.5% endorsing a negative impression, 29.4% holding favorable views, and 26.1% being neutral.
w w w. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19910864
This study represents what the video is saying....we can pick out studies all day long to bicker back and forth. I think that instead we should work together to get the patient well.
DrRamby 11 months ago
I didn't mean to leave the impression it was all M.D.'s and all Chiropractors. Most Chiropractors and M.D.'s work hand in hand for the better of the patient. There are unfortunately a few out there that are stuck in the old days when the two professions disliked each other. There may only be 3 in the whole world and they all live in my area. Believe me, if I had a condition that only an M.D. could treat I wouldn't hesitate to see one or prevent a single patient from doing the same,
DrRamby 11 months ago
This is very interesting! I did not know the differance in Malpractice was so large between the two. My Medical Doctor recently told me that if I keep going to the chiropractor, he won't be able to keep treating me (even for cold's/flu). He told me that they are all scam artist's and he does not allow his patients to see Chiropractors. But my Chiropractor really helps me. I only go two or three times a year and I dont have all the problems that I used to have. why all the hate from the MDs?
bitterbuck911 11 months ago
I haven't read that article. But I am not sure I understand what malpractice fraud is. I have never used my malpractice....it's just one of those expenses I pay but at least it's cheaper than the insurance on my truck. It's also cheaper than the farm policy on my house. I would like to point out there are M.D.'s and ortho's that refer patients to me and likewise, I refer patients to them.
DrRamby 11 months ago
You know, it's funny. I just now randomly read an article (trying to scout malpractice insurance) that says fraud is 9 times greater among chiropractors than among physicians, and that twice as many Chiropractors are subject to disciplinary actions than Physicians are.
Thought I'd post here since I saw your shot at MD's and them having "More accidents"
Arabman666 11 months ago
That's why auto insurance is more for a 16 year old male. That group of people have more accidents. Malpractice is more expensive for MD's because they have more accidents.
DrRamby 11 months ago
Thanks....I did it all in fun but it's oh so true....lol A patient told me a week ago that her MD advised her to not see a chiropractor (even if it was helping) because he see's chiroractors hurt people everyday in his practice. If that is true, then why is my malpractice so low and his is so high? Insurance is claims based.
DrRamby 11 months ago
@DrRamby
Insurance is claims and income based. There's also a much deeper element to Physicians, who treat a wide variety of illnesses and afflictions that span the science of Chiropractors and goes beyond. It's very unfair to compare the two.
It's like saying someone who drivers 1 specific road gets into less accidents than a guy who drives 1000 roads all the time because the guy who drivers on the 1 specific road is less accident prone.
MD's DO's and DPM's are just more broadly active.
Arabman666 11 months ago
Great video!
In the Dec. 2010 edition of The Spine Journal, a study found that after 16 weeks of care, patients referred to MDs saw almost no improvement in their disability, were likely to still be taking pain drugs and saw no benefit with added PT and yet were unlikely to be referred to a DC.
The study is a RCT comparing spinal adjustments by DSs, to MDs care of patients with acute LBP. Researchers found that chiro adjustments show significantly greater improvement compared to medicine.
rnbdc05 11 months ago 5
@rnbdc05
Which researchers? Who's the study by? Practicing OMM as a Medical Doctor is beneficial. i think that's the path Chiropractors need to go. Why do half of Osteopathy, when you can walk to full path?
Arabman666 11 months ago
@Arabman666
Here is the link to the study on pub-med, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20889389 -read it yourself.
Why be an osteopath when you can be an MD and take a weekend course on spinal manipulation. Osteopaths in the US pale in comparison to chiropractors in the art of spinal manipulation. Besides, why would a chiropractor want to be a lap dog to big pharma like MDs.
rnbdc05 11 months ago
@rnbdc05
The link isn't working, but I'm on my phone. I'll check it when I get home.
A weekend course on spinal manipulation? Did you go to Osteopathic Medical School? Probably one of the most ignorant, ridiculous, outlandish comments I've heard about DOs. That's extreme bias on your part. A DO is educated enough to foresee far-reaching effects of musculo-skeletal manipulation, and tie them in with science-based medicine and SUPERIOR organ system know-how. We learn in tandem.
Arabman666 11 months ago
@Arabman666
DOs can write a prescription for Lipitor and Prozac, take out a splinter, and maybe stitch up a cut, but do not come close to DCs in spinal manipulation. In terms of hands-on care Chiropractors are the gold standard. Its funny how the medical profession treats chiropractic. When chiropractors perform spinal manipulation it is quackery, but when osteopaths, MDs and PTs do it its called evidence based practice.
rnbdc05 11 months ago 3
@rnbdc05
A PT's work is totally evidence based. And how about a little respect for those of us who through 4 years of the most hellish and comprehensive medical school you can imagine, and then got stuck doing 4 year 80-hour week residencies for less than minimum wage. "Splinters" and "stitching cuts" are grossly disrespectful ways of categorizing a medical doctor's job. And you prove to be clueless to a DOs osteopathic training. Drugs typically aren't prescribed if they don't need to be.
Arabman666 11 months ago