Thom Hartmann & Prof Wilkinson: London Riots and economic inequality

[NoCommentChick]

I love Thom's beard! Great look for you! Seriously grow it out.

[ww9ybr9pi]

Really interesting. I live in the UK and the subject was still too 'hot' in the BBC coverage I came across for much 'understanding', with debates angrily coming down to 'do you condemn or do you condone?' .

[JigglyRose]

The children look at the grown ups taking whatever they want from the public aka the bankers ...why cnt they do any different?

[celainea]

Capitalism (the rising Merchant class) began as a way to combat the excesses of Royalty & the Church. Instead of adhering to principles of fairness, it became the mafia, just as corrupt, brutal, power absorbed, & unpredictable. Now corp sponsored governments have become the new oligarchs. We really need a new human/humane style system. Got any ideas?

[Dacktyl]

@celainea Democratic Socialism...

[Dacktyl]

@Dacktyl ...Democratic Socialism is the answer.

[flake452]

Thom I know You and this man both mean well, but like the woman you had the other day they are both posh wealthy people and cannot really understand what the problems are yet alone solve them I dont question their heart is in the right place but posh people do not have the solution.

[flake452]

The people who are rioting would not work if they could, they are just scum they mostly come from families that havnt worked in generations, they havent been raised to respect anything or anyone they have just been put out on the streets where anti social behaviour is the norm.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

Lol you really have no right to make such a ridiculous judgement, who the fuck do you think you are anyway? You are telling me there isn't wealth inequality? How about backing up your argument with some verifiable evidence? Or are you not capable of doing that? What an ignorant, hateful tool you are.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 Its clear there is income inequality no one is saying there isnt. I am from liverpool the poorest part of England. However if you ask people who actually live in these areas they will mostly agree that these people do not care about politics these people are the same people who have always engaged in anti social behaviour like this, the american media has it wrong, read what actual working class brits think, its just "chavs" and "scallys" rioting becuase they can.

[Dacktyl]

@flake452 I get your point, but like the Watts & Detroit riots of the 1960's, nothing happens in a vacuum. Some are born "thugs" & some have their "thugishness" thrust upon them from lack of options. The "scallys" may not be politically-astute & consciously sending a political message, but this is a political riot all the same because of the circumstances that made it possible.

[flake452]

@Dacktyl Here in the UK, you will get housing and some money so there is no reason to break the law, there is a lack of opportunities and good education in the poorer areas especially up north, but these people are part of the problem most of them havent just started to break the law they have spent their lives causing mayhem. They create an enviroment that its pointless to work because what you have will be destroyed or stolen. These riots are hardly going to encourage investment.

[Dacktyl]

@flake452 OH! SOME money for education... you're right then. It doesn't mean a thing that tuition costs have tripled & youth unemployment is over 40%... The environment conservative governments create have NOTHING to do with it. I suppose we should brace ourselves for the Danish riots no doubt right around the corner... considering that their $20 an hour minimum wage, publicly-financed universities, & 7.4% unemployment doesn't mean a thing. No need to look at the elephant in the living room.

[flake452]

@Dacktyl The people rioting wont have the qualifications for uni, they wont have the ambition for uni, these people are just violent thugs, as if if you ask the people who actually live in these areas will tell you. If you read the comments on the BBC website you can see what us English people actually think, these people are rioting because they think they wont get punished which is probably true.

[SalomeTirza]

@flake452 And why haven't they got the qualifications for uni? Certainly NOT because they wouldn't, if they could. Of cause it's easy to give the blame to people that already are "on the floor". And without living in their shoes, I wouldn't dare to give such statements. The cause is very much the one Prof. Wilkinson mentions and the solution is just as easy but not wanted from a minority of f****** rich bas****!

[flake452]

@SalomeTirza Well,the reason they havnt got the qualifications is our education system here is dreadful especially if you are poor and dont go to church. And also most of their parents dont care about education, they dont care if their children grow up on benefits too. These rioters havent just started this behaviour they act like this all the time just not on this scale, I know because I live around them in the poorest part of england, they harass people and ruin lives.

[Dacktyl]

@flake452 I guess you people just raise a nation of wanton thugs... for no apparent reason. Hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes... I know.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

I understand but if society had payed more attention to the education and welfare of these people then these types are much less likely to exist. Take Japan for example, even during the tsunami disaster the people remained calm and cohesive. This is because Japan has an excellent education system and doesn't treat its poor like garbage. What I'm saying is these people are products of their enviornment.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 I think its simply bad people in a bad enviroment. Yes education could prevent the next generation from becoming thugs but these people at present are nothing but mindless savages, prison will not even deter them because they will just be there with their mates, its also not humilating for them to go to prison like it would be for most people.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

I think you are wrong because bad people are less likely to exist in a well structured society which emphasizes equality and education amongst it's people. You act as if people are born bad which you simply could never back up.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 Ever heard of a sociopath? I live around these people they will milk the state and complain no matter what. They do not care about how their behaviour effects other people, actually they do they want their behaviour to harm people whether that mean beating up a stranger or kids using my bedroom window as a goal when they play football.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

Sociopath is a pretty strong word to be using. Once again a claim you can't back up. You also seem to have ignored my comment which pretty much addresses all you just said.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 Well attacking innocent people sounds pretty sociopathic to me.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

Attacking someone doesn't make you a sociopath. Infact there are so called sociopaths that live normal enough lives that you would never think to call them that. That word is overused and misunderstood.

You seem to be making the claim that everyone there is inherently evil when I've already pointed out that people are almost always a product of their enviornments.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 well no but our welfare system has encouraged the most awful people to have as many children as they can, selfish people who only care about themselves.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

Well if everyone was provided with an excellent education and chance to succeed chances are welfare wouldn't be necessary, or not nearly as much so. There are plenty of very selfish and destructive rich and wealthy people too.

[flake452]

@refuckulate420 I agree. The cuts are bad yes, but still these riots are not about cuts and they still are scum, if they had been raised in a better enviroment they would have probably been better people but still what they are doing not just the riots in there day to day anti social behaviour is their own fault, yes government and society has blaime too but these people are not victims they are criminals and thugs.

[refuckulate420]

@flake452

You are repeating yourself unecessarily.

[etzel33]

@flake452 that is certainly how it is being portrayed, that these are riots and not demonstrations. I find it difficult to believe however that so many 'thugs and criminals' persistantly riot causing London to reinforce with 16k police. are there really that many thugs and criminals just waiting to run amok? More importantly, is the Bank of England secure from these rathscaleons?

[flake452]

@etzel33 American media has it wrong, if you look at british media and what actual british people think you can see its just thugs, london has 6 million people so there are easily enough thugs to riot. Its not just happening in London either its all across england. We have a thug culture here where anti social behaviour and violence are a hobby.

[etzel33]

@flake452 I would never trust US media on this topic (except Thom of course :)) but I've been getting reports from BBC via NPR, and it's very, shall we say, 'nationalistic'. An uprising of thugs, a thug culture? Hard to grasp that so many would take to the streets in this manner. That one guy said it was an insurrection. Interesting anomoly right at the core of western civilization while the rest of the world rises up in the name of Democracy. TY for your comments.

[flake452]

@etzel33 I know Thom is a good guy and I trust him, but he doesnt have a huge multinational new coporation backing him or their funding so he has to resort to getting his news from, the news. Which has its problems when journalists can be lazy or want to make a story more interesting.

[Mahoivlich]

Eventually the mob will burn it all. Those in power may believe that poor people are weak and helpless but when you have thousands upon thousands..... This is the road unregulated capitalism leads to every time.

[megagagnon1]

@Mahoivlich Unregulated capitalism? Where? Certainly not in Britain.

[LouieArrighi]

@megagagnon1 ut oh another stupid shit libertarian who has NEVER taken an economics class at a real UNIVERSITY, and not mises.org

[megagagnon1]

@LouieArrighi You blithering idiot you don't even understand a simple concept like unregulated capitalism. You're the last person that should be talking about being uneducated.

[ggadguy]

@Mahoivlich The UK is certainly not the model capitalist country, since they have a high income tax and massive government spending and bailouts. If you mean corporatism instead of capitalism, then you are correct.

I recommending watching Stefen Molyneux on the london riots and the real causes.

watch?v=FjW-lfTlr0g

[etzel33]

the first lucid discussion I've heard yet on the UK situation... BBC is all over the "looting" aspect with zero comment on the impact of austerity

[megagagnon1]

@etzel33 Only a tiny part of the austerity has been implimented. The bigger cuts are coming soon.

[etzel33]

@megagagnon1 that may be. weren't they out in the streets a year ago about school tuition or something?

[megagagnon1]

@etzel33 December 10, 2010 In the biggest test so far of Britain's coalition government, a divided Parliament voted Thursday to nearly triple the amount that universities can charge for tuition, despite the wrath of thousands of student protesters who organized marches and sit-ins across the country.

[etzel33]

@megagagnon1 Thanks. Hard to get news from outside the US. We've been on cultural lockdown for about 50 years :)

[flake452]

@etzel33 Its nothing to do with the cuts, these people are just scum I have lived around these people all my life, now its just showing posh people what its actually like living on a council estate.

[etzel33]

@flake452 you may be right, this might just be an anomaly happening at the same time as all the uprisings in the world. I'd be impressed if the riots were downtown outside the BoE. Maybe Thom is right about it being closer to Detroit in the 60s