I also have EDS and set up a blog to raise awareness about EDS and invisible disabilities. Copy and paste the following into your browser hideandseekdisabilities.blogspot.com
@bentleyhants While I do have a slight "marfanoid habitus" I don't meet the requirements for Marfans. My armspan is slightly longer than my height but it isn't significant enough to be considered for Marfans. Same with the rest of my body ratios.
Wow, I totally remember my friends doing these "tricks" as they called them as kids. I would try, but I wasn't able to. Guess they aren't always good tricks after all...
You know better then over extending. Proving it to them just hurts you. I know only safe one was skin and you didn't try and freak them out good girl. I haven't even come to terms with showing people what are skin really does yet ether. What they can't see won't hurt them right. Be safe XXXX oh could have used more cowbell everything needs more cowbell. :D
For me, EDS was critically diagnosed after a series of joint and muscle problems viz. 6 shoulder dislocations on either shoulders with fractures while sleeping and once when I was trying to get rid of a cramp in my thigh, I pulled my leg towards my body and broke the whole femur in two.
Later also got diagnosed a coarctation in my aorta (depression in the primary artery going out from the heart).
I am not very hypermobile, yet have EDS. So, you don't need to prove anything, Kerrilynn. :)
Hey kerrilyn has anyone ever said you look and sound like t'ea leoni, you could be her double lol!!! Great vid by the way im a fellow eds sufferer by the way.
Wow I was diagnosed with it when I was born. My mom pinched my and said...."yep she got it". It Is a lot of times genetic.... I thought it was genetic in till I saw some of these comments about people being diagnosed with when the were near their teens and twentys.
@libbydeland it is genetic. Most of the time the reason people are diagnosed later in life is because it was misdiagnosed as something else, or simply missed altogether. EDS is a rare condition and not well known even in the medical profession. I've had it since birth, but was only diagnosed at 25. I was treated for undifferentiated arthritis for years and years before finally figuring out that it was EDS.
Is EDS something that's picked up on general hospital visits? I aske because I can do everything you do in this video, my skin is very elastic and my joints pop and dislocate randomly a lot; but i've not been diagnosed for anything regarding this and I'm in and out of hospital quite often (being accident prone ^^")
I had a cast once to keep my knee in place, but they never suggested that I might have EDS or anything.....
You shouldn't have to show proof at all! It disgusts me that someone, whether well meaning or not, would ask you for proof. My daughters school asked me for proof she had SOD/ONH... I told them to get stuffed!! And there is obvious physical proof she has it, she is blind in one eye and that eye turns inwards. Yeah, I just told the school she had it for no reason *rolls eyes*. I have lupus, one of those invisible conditions... if people dont believe it they can get bent!
Why would someone ask you to prove it!?!?! Trying to be an "ass" or not thats being an ass! We get enough of that BS from the people physically around us! When I go to work wearing bracing, or limping, or with random bruising, or just in general pain everyone wants to know, what happened.... They look at me really strange when I answer them honestly and say I have NO clue! I really don't feel like sitting down with everyone who inquires about it for 10 minutes showing them my sideshow tricks =\
The best proof is a skin biopt. I have my EDS diagnosed by it. They take a piece of your skin and search for the gene mutation. Well they found it, unfortunately.
@Tinkwashere Yes, a skin biopsy is used to find a gene, but only a few of the genes have been identified, especially when it comes to the hypermobile type of EDS. The gene hasn't been found yet.
Just wanted to add that I haven't gotten the biopsy done, but I really do want to since I present symptoms of vascular EDS. I've been officially diagnosed with "Mixed Type EDS."
is Ehlers Danlos Syndrome bad, like is it bad as in you could like die from it, i know it seems loike a really dumb question and for thoes of you who read this dont please dont send me a really mean message, because i can do everything you can do, and im kinda worried now
@TehLiquid I thank you for your honesty. EDS can be very dangerous. It's not so much that people die from EDS, many live very long, happy lives. It's the complications of EDS that are dangerous and can be life threatening. At the time that I made this video I was pretty healthy aside from the joint dislocations. I have a cousin that is even more hypermobile than I am, but has no other symptoms and is perfectly healthy. If you are really concerned talk to your dr or a support group.
There are tons of support groups on facebook. The ones that I like are all related to EDS Network CARES. Also, look them up on google, they have a website. Many hugs, my friend.
hi,..ive recently have been made aware of HMS by my doctor,....its only a few ribs i have that actually move out of their proper place even though rib cage is supposed to be expanding and contracting, my 2 ribs on the right side pop out and i have alot of discomfort, i can still move and walk and everything, but the pain is there and alos i have to snap it back in place, i hear a loud clicking sound and after that im fine, would u guys say that this is also HMS ?.....
@ak47n I would have to know more about your symptoms to be able to make an assumption. It would also, only be that, and assumption. I am not a doctor and don't know you, so I wouldn't be able to actually diagnose you. However, I will try to help in anyway I can. Check out GeneReviews, do a search for EDS. It will pop up some links to different EDS types. Lots of good info there, along with diagnostic criteria. Feel free to message me if you have more questions!
hi,..ive recently have been made aware of HMS by my doctor,....its only a few ribs i have that actually move out of their proper place even though rib cage is supposed to be expanding and contracting, my 2 ribs on the right side pop out and i have alot of discomfort, i can still move and walk and everything, but the pain is there and alos i have to snap it back in place, i hear a loud clicking sound and after that im fine, would u guys say that this is also HMS ?.....
I swear I have this conversation every time I see a new Doctor. I'm a 31 year old male with EDS type three, and I have noticed that many of my symptoms have been changing over time. As I get older my joints are becoming more fragile and less flexible. When I was a kid I had all the hand tricks, but now it hurts to bend my thumbs at all. Have you noticed that Your symptoms have changed over time? Most of the literature online says that EDS is progressive, and I really don't like that word.
@morganloy Yes, my condition has changed. I am stiffer, weaker, and less flexible in my hands and some other joints from them being out of place all the time and developing osteoarthritis. EDS isn't so much progressive, as it is degenerative, although I suppose that's a matter of semantics.
I'm with tdk2592, screw what other people on youtube think, i think a lot of people dont realize some of us do vids about our conditions to help others
@Sand4y Yea, you sure can. The super stretchy skin is only an indicator for the Classical EDS type. There are lots of people with EDS that don't have the stretchy skin. Thin, translucent skin is characteristic of Vascular type. Of course anyone with any type of EDS can have these characteristics, but it's not a main basis of diagnosis. There are a lot of other things to be considered. Hope that helps. If you want feel free to message me with any concerns.
Yep, EDS sucks! I was diagnosed in 2004 when I was 13. There were always problems, pains and easy dislocations. I could twist parts of my body that shouldn't twist, I can still pop my shoulder out of socket on command and I have very slack wrists (just a few of the problems). Just a couple of weeks ago my knee started popping in and out while I was walking. Dislocations have become less of a pain and more of an annoyance now, since they happen so often. As you get older the pain increases too!
I have eds hypermobility type. The collagen, ligaments and tendons are crap. So much so that my eyes jiggle when I am trying to read. Does that happen to you and if so have you been able to get some help with it?
You seem like a good person but why do you care what someone has said about you? You know you're not lying surely that's all that matters? Not some random loser on youtube.
@tdk2592 When I posted this, I was still feeling like I had to defend myself and prove that I wasn't faking. Now, I don't really care. People can think what they want. I don't have the energy to deal with these kind of people. Stay Well!
My 11 year old son is being tested for EDS and CTD at this time. I found your video very informative. I find myself also having to show proof? Take care!
I feel for you. I to suffer from EDS. Although Mine is probably one of the most mild forms, I still experience the joint pain from time to time. I have had over 400 sutures in my body on over 30 occasions. I suffer from alot of Arthritits problems for somebody that is 31. Keep fighting!
And my left arm joint can pop out at any time, because of an accident I had. My jaw has the same problem on the right joint. I have a hard time chewing...
But you're lucky... You can see a Doctor... I don't have insurance.
I also have a heart issue (Mitral Valve Prolapse), do you have that, too?
I can twist my leg and I can lay down on my knees (which is a bit neat, because I can take naps that way, during a car ride) and I can do some other things, too.
I've got joint pain, pretty badly.... I break my bones easily, so I'm very careful about what I do... -continued-
I can't do some things you can do, but I also have big eyes, small ears, a very small chin and my collar bones stick out, too. My chest looks definitely different from others. My Skin is super soft and squishy, I bruise a lot.
I can put my legs behind my head and I can bend my fingers in weird ways, too... Not as much as you can, in some spots, but they're still pretty bendy. -continued-
i know what u mean by people not believing u my Ehlors Danlos Syndrome is hypermobilty & i have scars all over my body because with this as u probably already know doesnt heal right & we r left with bad scars that will never go away just keep on being the best you can be & ty for doing the videos makes me not feel like im alone in the world
I cannot believe anyone watching would be so impolite to ask!
I've had severe chronic otalgia for 26 years, w/a milder form going back 40 years. Other than surgical scars hidden behind one ear, I look like a normal, healthy man. I have no genetic test. There's no machine that measures pain. Because of medical implants, I can't even have an MRI to show pain lighting up in my brain!
If you cannot accept K's word that she has EDS and severe pain, you really have no business being here.
Hopefully it was just genuine curiousity, for those who do not have it it is very hard for them to get their head around it.
My doctors and family do not even understand it and hopefully your videos will help others get a better understanding of what this is and how it destroys people and motivate them to assist those with it in their later life.
I am glad that I am the only one that got it in my family, and deeply regret that it got you.
hey, ive been watching your videos, its incredible to see how you manage this condition.I can imaigne how irritating it must be to have those comments.
My doctor is referring me to the joint specialists in hospital to figure out if ive got it. I dont have joint pain, so even though it may be still called ehlers danlos syndrome, it wouldnt really be the same thing.
I really think it was informational. I have spoken with this person a few times. My impression was that he enjoys my videos and saw some other people do "tricks" and I never did, and don't, for reasons I have mention in the video. I really do think it was curiosity and wanted to make sure it was real. *shrug*
@Sammerkona i had people not believe me when i was diagnosed infact i lost alot of friends over the matter. yes people really are that shallow they need proof x
Hey! Good job with the video, and very cool snoopy shirt ;) Everyone gets a kick out of it when I turn my feet around backwards, people do not always understand what the disease entails. We believed you already, scouts honor! Have a great weekend
I totally understand you not wanting to not put yourself in pain to "prove" the disorder to others...but if the doctors notes dont prove it than nothing will!
I also have EDS and set up a blog to raise awareness about EDS and invisible disabilities. Copy and paste the following into your browser hideandseekdisabilities.blogspot.com
abistaff 1 week ago
ur really beautifulll:)
nottrying to hit on u or nothin or be a creep just thought u should know ur beautiful:)
shiversoner69 2 months ago
I was wondering why you were diagnosed with EDS and not Marfans as a lot of the symptoms which you present occur in both...?
bentleyhants 3 months ago
@bentleyhants While I do have a slight "marfanoid habitus" I don't meet the requirements for Marfans. My armspan is slightly longer than my height but it isn't significant enough to be considered for Marfans. Same with the rest of my body ratios.
DarkWaterfall 3 months ago
Wow, I totally remember my friends doing these "tricks" as they called them as kids. I would try, but I wasn't able to. Guess they aren't always good tricks after all...
CocoaBeansXoX 3 months ago
You know better then over extending. Proving it to them just hurts you. I know only safe one was skin and you didn't try and freak them out good girl. I haven't even come to terms with showing people what are skin really does yet ether. What they can't see won't hurt them right. Be safe XXXX oh could have used more cowbell everything needs more cowbell. :D
darkenlight22 3 months ago
My husband was diagnosed yesterday, and we have an 8 year old daughter......wondering about her now........
timmay6921 3 months ago
o mg i have all these but much mores
does this mean i have ed
i have 2daughters (6&3) older girl is very weak
how can be sure we don't have good hospitals or doctors
nass1401 3 months ago
i can move my thumb to my forarm and im female
synchrosk8ter4 4 months ago
the ear thing made me smile, i sometimes do that, but with the whole earlobe
chartreuse1171 4 months ago
This was unnecessary, don't let anyone tell you they need proof.
Also, I noticed that I can do a whole fucking lot of things that require hypermobility. What age were you when you were diagnosed?
luckypharms 4 months ago
For me, EDS was critically diagnosed after a series of joint and muscle problems viz. 6 shoulder dislocations on either shoulders with fractures while sleeping and once when I was trying to get rid of a cramp in my thigh, I pulled my leg towards my body and broke the whole femur in two.
Later also got diagnosed a coarctation in my aorta (depression in the primary artery going out from the heart).
I am not very hypermobile, yet have EDS. So, you don't need to prove anything, Kerrilynn. :)
zaheenkb 4 months ago
everybody can do that thing with the nose and ears -.-
shanaki90 5 months ago
@shanaki90 Actually, no, not everyone can do that. Sure most can at some level, but mine stretch much further than most.
DarkWaterfall 5 months ago
You have a serious case of geek girl hotness!
CoyKiyote 6 months ago
Hey kerrilyn has anyone ever said you look and sound like t'ea leoni, you could be her double lol!!! Great vid by the way im a fellow eds sufferer by the way.
Natureboywhooo 7 months ago
Wow I was diagnosed with it when I was born. My mom pinched my and said...."yep she got it". It Is a lot of times genetic.... I thought it was genetic in till I saw some of these comments about people being diagnosed with when the were near their teens and twentys.
libbydeland 9 months ago
@libbydeland it is genetic. Most of the time the reason people are diagnosed later in life is because it was misdiagnosed as something else, or simply missed altogether. EDS is a rare condition and not well known even in the medical profession. I've had it since birth, but was only diagnosed at 25. I was treated for undifferentiated arthritis for years and years before finally figuring out that it was EDS.
DarkWaterfall 9 months ago
Is EDS something that's picked up on general hospital visits? I aske because I can do everything you do in this video, my skin is very elastic and my joints pop and dislocate randomly a lot; but i've not been diagnosed for anything regarding this and I'm in and out of hospital quite often (being accident prone ^^")
I had a cast once to keep my knee in place, but they never suggested that I might have EDS or anything.....
Emilywow95 10 months ago
You shouldn't have to show proof at all! It disgusts me that someone, whether well meaning or not, would ask you for proof. My daughters school asked me for proof she had SOD/ONH... I told them to get stuffed!! And there is obvious physical proof she has it, she is blind in one eye and that eye turns inwards. Yeah, I just told the school she had it for no reason *rolls eyes*. I have lupus, one of those invisible conditions... if people dont believe it they can get bent!
gigglewhippet 11 months ago
Thank you SO MUCH for this VID!!! I just got diagnosed and this REALLY helps!
Jazzyteach65 1 year ago
@Jazzyteach65 I am so glad I could help! Take care!
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
Why would someone ask you to prove it!?!?! Trying to be an "ass" or not thats being an ass! We get enough of that BS from the people physically around us! When I go to work wearing bracing, or limping, or with random bruising, or just in general pain everyone wants to know, what happened.... They look at me really strange when I answer them honestly and say I have NO clue! I really don't feel like sitting down with everyone who inquires about it for 10 minutes showing them my sideshow tricks =\
cheshielynx 1 year ago
The best proof is a skin biopt. I have my EDS diagnosed by it. They take a piece of your skin and search for the gene mutation. Well they found it, unfortunately.
Tinkwashere 1 year ago
@Tinkwashere Yes, a skin biopsy is used to find a gene, but only a few of the genes have been identified, especially when it comes to the hypermobile type of EDS. The gene hasn't been found yet.
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
Just wanted to add that I haven't gotten the biopsy done, but I really do want to since I present symptoms of vascular EDS. I've been officially diagnosed with "Mixed Type EDS."
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
is Ehlers Danlos Syndrome bad, like is it bad as in you could like die from it, i know it seems loike a really dumb question and for thoes of you who read this dont please dont send me a really mean message, because i can do everything you can do, and im kinda worried now
TehLiquid 1 year ago
@TehLiquid I thank you for your honesty. EDS can be very dangerous. It's not so much that people die from EDS, many live very long, happy lives. It's the complications of EDS that are dangerous and can be life threatening. At the time that I made this video I was pretty healthy aside from the joint dislocations. I have a cousin that is even more hypermobile than I am, but has no other symptoms and is perfectly healthy. If you are really concerned talk to your dr or a support group.
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
There are tons of support groups on facebook. The ones that I like are all related to EDS Network CARES. Also, look them up on google, they have a website. Many hugs, my friend.
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
that seems really normal.
nork3 1 year ago
To have pain is to have certainty. To hear about pain is to have doubt. Elaine Scarry, The Body in Pain.
longlakeshore 1 year ago
hi,..ive recently have been made aware of HMS by my doctor,....its only a few ribs i have that actually move out of their proper place even though rib cage is supposed to be expanding and contracting, my 2 ribs on the right side pop out and i have alot of discomfort, i can still move and walk and everything, but the pain is there and alos i have to snap it back in place, i hear a loud clicking sound and after that im fine, would u guys say that this is also HMS ?.....
ak47n 1 year ago
@ak47n I would have to know more about your symptoms to be able to make an assumption. It would also, only be that, and assumption. I am not a doctor and don't know you, so I wouldn't be able to actually diagnose you. However, I will try to help in anyway I can. Check out GeneReviews, do a search for EDS. It will pop up some links to different EDS types. Lots of good info there, along with diagnostic criteria. Feel free to message me if you have more questions!
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
hi,..ive recently have been made aware of HMS by my doctor,....its only a few ribs i have that actually move out of their proper place even though rib cage is supposed to be expanding and contracting, my 2 ribs on the right side pop out and i have alot of discomfort, i can still move and walk and everything, but the pain is there and alos i have to snap it back in place, i hear a loud clicking sound and after that im fine, would u guys say that this is also HMS ?.....
ak47n 1 year ago
I swear I have this conversation every time I see a new Doctor. I'm a 31 year old male with EDS type three, and I have noticed that many of my symptoms have been changing over time. As I get older my joints are becoming more fragile and less flexible. When I was a kid I had all the hand tricks, but now it hurts to bend my thumbs at all. Have you noticed that Your symptoms have changed over time? Most of the literature online says that EDS is progressive, and I really don't like that word.
morganloy 1 year ago
@morganloy Yes, my condition has changed. I am stiffer, weaker, and less flexible in my hands and some other joints from them being out of place all the time and developing osteoarthritis. EDS isn't so much progressive, as it is degenerative, although I suppose that's a matter of semantics.
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
I'm with tdk2592, screw what other people on youtube think, i think a lot of people dont realize some of us do vids about our conditions to help others
DibbersPage 1 year ago
can you have eds without the skin part?
Sand4y 1 year ago
@Sand4y Yea, you sure can. The super stretchy skin is only an indicator for the Classical EDS type. There are lots of people with EDS that don't have the stretchy skin. Thin, translucent skin is characteristic of Vascular type. Of course anyone with any type of EDS can have these characteristics, but it's not a main basis of diagnosis. There are a lot of other things to be considered. Hope that helps. If you want feel free to message me with any concerns.
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
@DarkWaterfall I think I might have what you do I just don't have the skin part thats why I asked.
Ps. I left you a messige =) get back to me when you can please!
Sand4y 1 year ago
@DarkWaterfall What type do you have
I have Type 2 (Classical) and I never really had to go to the doctor for it other then my yearly check up
and two little thingys (I can do but always curious when another person has EDS)
1. can you bend the tips of your fingers without bending others
2. (don't know how to phrase) how elastic is your mouth
i can almost triple the width of mine
PoopyPantyPoop 1 year ago
Yep, EDS sucks! I was diagnosed in 2004 when I was 13. There were always problems, pains and easy dislocations. I could twist parts of my body that shouldn't twist, I can still pop my shoulder out of socket on command and I have very slack wrists (just a few of the problems). Just a couple of weeks ago my knee started popping in and out while I was walking. Dislocations have become less of a pain and more of an annoyance now, since they happen so often. As you get older the pain increases too!
shadowofangels32 1 year ago
I have eds hypermobility type. The collagen, ligaments and tendons are crap. So much so that my eyes jiggle when I am trying to read. Does that happen to you and if so have you been able to get some help with it?
littlemissnutjob 1 year ago
You seem like a good person but why do you care what someone has said about you? You know you're not lying surely that's all that matters? Not some random loser on youtube.
tdk2592 1 year ago
@tdk2592 When I posted this, I was still feeling like I had to defend myself and prove that I wasn't faking. Now, I don't really care. People can think what they want. I don't have the energy to deal with these kind of people. Stay Well!
DarkWaterfall 1 year ago
My 11 year old son is being tested for EDS and CTD at this time. I found your video very informative. I find myself also having to show proof? Take care!
CSavage321 2 years ago
I feel for you. I to suffer from EDS. Although Mine is probably one of the most mild forms, I still experience the joint pain from time to time. I have had over 400 sutures in my body on over 30 occasions. I suffer from alot of Arthritits problems for somebody that is 31. Keep fighting!
OddManOut13 2 years ago
And my left arm joint can pop out at any time, because of an accident I had. My jaw has the same problem on the right joint. I have a hard time chewing...
But you're lucky... You can see a Doctor... I don't have insurance.
I also have a heart issue (Mitral Valve Prolapse), do you have that, too?
MimiSkitty 2 years ago
I can twist my leg and I can lay down on my knees (which is a bit neat, because I can take naps that way, during a car ride) and I can do some other things, too.
I've got joint pain, pretty badly.... I break my bones easily, so I'm very careful about what I do... -continued-
MimiSkitty 2 years ago
Hmmmm...
I have that, too.
I can't do some things you can do, but I also have big eyes, small ears, a very small chin and my collar bones stick out, too. My chest looks definitely different from others. My Skin is super soft and squishy, I bruise a lot.
I can put my legs behind my head and I can bend my fingers in weird ways, too... Not as much as you can, in some spots, but they're still pretty bendy. -continued-
MimiSkitty 2 years ago
i know what u mean by people not believing u my Ehlors Danlos Syndrome is hypermobilty & i have scars all over my body because with this as u probably already know doesnt heal right & we r left with bad scars that will never go away just keep on being the best you can be & ty for doing the videos makes me not feel like im alone in the world
JustsAngel 2 years ago
I cannot believe anyone watching would be so impolite to ask!
I've had severe chronic otalgia for 26 years, w/a milder form going back 40 years. Other than surgical scars hidden behind one ear, I look like a normal, healthy man. I have no genetic test. There's no machine that measures pain. Because of medical implants, I can't even have an MRI to show pain lighting up in my brain!
If you cannot accept K's word that she has EDS and severe pain, you really have no business being here.
longlakeshore 2 years ago
The tricks can be kind of cool but "proof" of bendability etc is only proof of being hypermobile/bendy.
Proving that we suffer pain at activities others find easy is another matter entirely.
I sometimes feel a phony when others look at you and you know they think you're faking it, so sometimes also feel the need to "prove it".
Halobitt 2 years ago
Hopefully it was just genuine curiousity, for those who do not have it it is very hard for them to get their head around it.
My doctors and family do not even understand it and hopefully your videos will help others get a better understanding of what this is and how it destroys people and motivate them to assist those with it in their later life.
I am glad that I am the only one that got it in my family, and deeply regret that it got you.
77095070 2 years ago
hey, ive been watching your videos, its incredible to see how you manage this condition.I can imaigne how irritating it must be to have those comments.
My doctor is referring me to the joint specialists in hospital to figure out if ive got it. I dont have joint pain, so even though it may be still called ehlers danlos syndrome, it wouldnt really be the same thing.
wish you the best
its late, im babbling, but
jinnai7 2 years ago
I really think it was informational. I have spoken with this person a few times. My impression was that he enjoys my videos and saw some other people do "tricks" and I never did, and don't, for reasons I have mention in the video. I really do think it was curiosity and wanted to make sure it was real. *shrug*
DarkWaterfall 2 years ago
My question would be what idiot would want "proof" of your EDS? Did they REALLY doubt you ? Or was the question just informational in nature?
Sammerkona 2 years ago
@Sammerkona i had people not believe me when i was diagnosed infact i lost alot of friends over the matter. yes people really are that shallow they need proof x
SexxiLittleMoi 2 years ago
Hey! Good job with the video, and very cool snoopy shirt ;) Everyone gets a kick out of it when I turn my feet around backwards, people do not always understand what the disease entails. We believed you already, scouts honor! Have a great weekend
crazylegz610 2 years ago
Thank you for sharing this. My two children have type 3. My daughter has wrists just like yours. xx
xxxxcatsxxxx 2 years ago
I totally understand you not wanting to not put yourself in pain to "prove" the disorder to others...but if the doctors notes dont prove it than nothing will!
Hugs!
sexygurrl003 2 years ago