There is no doubt that Christianity and islam have really f**ked Africa up.
These 2 religions are an abomination on the world but it is in Africa where they both will eventually die.
Islam is so desperate that is now beating small boys into a bloody pulp for not learning the koran
When Africa rises again and shows its true spirituality, culture and power, and kick the ass of islam, the whole continent will flourish and will eventually give birth to a new democracy.
You sir are a lunatic and it wouldn't suprise me if you speak to magical fairies all day long.
It's not religions that did this but HUMAN BEINGS!!!, doesn't matter what they call themselves there is no religion that is out there to oppress besides we are ruled under secular societies(non religious laws), its the west that has exploited the african continent- remember blood diamonds?
Your comment is based on either your ignorance or your hate, both of which are inexcuseable.
As a fellow human being, I am seriously embarrassed by your inability to use your brain to respond to me.
The fundamental remit of mohammed is to command muslims to kill.
It would seem that in the absence of any discernable intellect, you make do with twittering like a sad old cage bird who is desperate for freedom, but is incapable of escape - and even when the cage is opened by wisdom, logic, reason and intelligence, you can't find the door.
Your clearly someone who has dedicated their whole lives to a 'lost cause'. Clearly you are not fooling anybody but yourself. Africa will not rise until the day it is ruled by islam because democracy is the reason africa is a shithole.
You honestly do sound like a lunatic filling your mind with fantasies that a whole continent will somehow be free of religion and justice will rule lallalalalla....
Name the last time africa was a prosperous continent.
So you're still stalking me - you just can't get enough of me huh?
You remind me of a sad old widow woman who has lost her much loved husband, but she still can't stop herself from crying over the good f**king she used to get when he was alive.
Run along little man, and take some time out to ask yourself why you're so depressed, lonely and deeply unloved - there's a good boy.
Please correct me if I'm wrong brother. Zakat is not on your property. If you own a house you don't go paying 2.5% every year zakat or for your car. Zakat is only for propeties that bring you money like if you have a garden that mankes fruit and you sell the fruit or from your merchandise etc..
Zakat is actually 2.5% of the money that you have but did not use in 1 year, like if you have 1000 dollars and one year has passed since you've had it then you give 25 dollars to the poor.
There are other rules of zakat on produce and other things.
by property i truly mean your wealth, today it is dollars, gold, silver etc that is what you own as property even though most people simply think of land. also dont forget it is 10% on produce as well.
Everyone pays taxes, but, I'm getting mixed messages here on the meaning of jizyah. I mean, according to the Quran, jizyah is imposed as a humiliation for not being Muslim, and, the jizyah is imposed AFTER the non-Muslim is attacked by Muslims in 9:29. Muslims I've talked to, say zizyah is the opposite of what the Muslims are telling me here about it. That it's TWICE in tax that a Muslim HAS to pay in zakaat. And, the question that is being ignored is, "how is this not descrimination?"
i dont know the muslims you speak of, i do know that the jizya is imposed on a non muslim because of the muslims' responsiblity to protect them for living in the society of muslims. it is not discrimination, because taxes are taken form the muslims, even more taxes is taken from the muslims, because outside of zakaat, sadaqah is also payed by the muslims especially when it is mandated by the state. so no it is not discrimination, it would be if in other states muslims dont pay taxes
How do Muslims know non-Muslims are paying the jizyah and should be left alone? Are there signs on cars and homes that say, "This kafir paid the jizyah, don't kill him"? But, what if so, what if the signs are removed so those Muslims can kill him and perform taqqiya, saying, "Hey, I didn't see any signs to let me know he was paying jizyah tax"?
how does uncle sam know that i didnt pay my taxes? the same way it is known there is a tax collector who extracts the taxes, in america it is formalized as the IRS in muslim countries it might be a local form of the IRS.
It seems to me that you think that in Muslim countries NOn Muslims should pay no taxes whatsoever. THis is the message i'm getting from you.Please confirm or deny.
If not, then what's the problem with paying jiziya ( which means tax) plus that tax is less than what Muslims pay. I don't see any unfairness and discrimination in it since Non Muslims pay less, they are protected and has no obligatio to go to war while Muslims do. Where is the probelm?You should see the Jiziya as somethings positive
But, the money goes to a faith that says Jews are under Allah's wrath, that the WORST of sins isn;t rape, but, "shirk", which is believing that Allah has a Son being that Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. And, this money HAS to go to an anti-semetic, anti-Christian, well, anti-non-Muslim faith, even if it goes against those faiths to send money to? YOU say you can leave America if you want because taxes go to gay marriage, but, what if you're surrounded by dar al Islam?
it doesnt matter where the money goes, it is a tax, and by defination, you live in an area you pay the taxes imposed on you for living there.
you do it now, i do it now and my taxes goes to a regeme that thinks dropping bombs on civilians at a wedding is justified because those at the wedding were muslism.
if i am completely surrounded that there is no country to seek refuge in then i start killing from a side, (ok i am being sarcastic, sadly being a muslim you might not see it that way)
What if some religion that wasn't Islam, took over the US government and charged Muslims a tax for being in America? That the only way to NOT pay the tax would be to become a part OF that religion OR, help that religion kill those who refused to join it, and, if you refused to join it, but, paid the tax, you could live, but, well, be "treated like a cow fit for slaughter"? Would you leave America, or, act like you JOINED that religion only to practice Islam in secret?
because remember what the issue you are having is, it is that the non muslims have to pay jizya in a muslim country, so lets not kid ourselves here you are saying for these people to live tax free in a society, so is it fair?
Where did you answer me on how paying the jizyah keeps Muslims from killing non-Muslims? HOW does it protect non-Muslims from Muslims? Signs are taken down if the jizyah isn't paid, or, how does it work to protect the non-Muslim from Muslims? WHERE did you answer me there?
are you going to start playing games now? there are many of your questions i have answered, you were the one who brought up an example, i am using your example to ask you a simple question, please answer the question. i dont apreciate games.
you seem like a genuine person, but your refusal to answer a simple question, makes you seem disingenious.
is it ok for a people to live tax free is the question incase you missed it.
IF you click on "view all 36 comments", you will see that you haven't answered me on atleast two questions I put forward a day ago. The question I posed a day ago went something like, "what if the non-Muslim doesn't pay the jizyah for protection against Muslims? Are signs taken down?" Another was, "HOW do Muslims know he paid the jizyah so as to not attack him?" Please answer me on those. After all, I asked first, as you can clearly see. And, you haven't responded, as you can clearly see.
i dont have the time to seach for these comments so i will answer your question then i want for you to answer my simple question because that is what all of your questioning is driving to.
1. as for notice of jizya payment, that is up to the state how they take care of it, be it a tag or a bill or what ever that is up to the state.
2. muslims are not to attack the non payer, the tax collector is to put out notice that this person owes, and either they pay or face the penalty according to state
no i answered your questions you claimed you asked before i asked my question.... so now answer my question.
Is it fair to allow indiviuals to live in your state without having to pay taxes? if not i think it is enough to end this discussion on jizya because jizya is a tax.
that is not obvious? what taxes you pay does it not allow your government to protect you? seriously you are speaking like a kid that has no knowledge what so ever. i am suprised at this point that you didnt ask me what is a tax.
you pay a tax to the state that protects you, that is how one is protected by paying the muslim what is incontrol of the state they live in.
YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers say of those who believe: "If (this Message) were a good thing, (such men) would not have gone to it first, before us!" And seeing that they guide not themselves thereby, they will say, "this is an (old,) falsehood!"
I don't mind paying a tax IF that tax is not descriminatory. But, when it's as 9:29 has it (inspite of what Muslims say it is), sounds like descrimination. How is it not descrimination when you have the Quran saying it's to humiliate them even AFTER they are beaten for, well, not being Muslim? IF the jizyah is so fair, why does the Quran call it a "humilating tax"? Is this metaphoric like Muhammad saying the sun has to ask permission to rise?
AGAIN ANSWER THE QUESTION, would you be ok with muslims not paying taxes in a non muslim society and taking advantage of what your taxes allow for which includes protection of themself and their properties?
I'd like it even. Where EVERYone pays taxes. But, I wouldn't want Muslims killed and humiliated to the point where it was death or, bannishment from America if they didn't pay taxes, and, would be killed by non-Muslims if they thought it was going against their religion to pay taxes TO non-Muslims when Muslims thought that paying TOO non-Muslims was satanic and the only way NOT to pay taxes was to kill Muslims who didn't pay taxes TOO non-Muslims.
Once a year, or, monthly, are you SURE what a non-Muslim pays in jizyah is LESS than what a Muslim pays in Zakaat even though Quran 9:29 says the jizyah is to humiliate the non-Muslim?
as for what 9:29 is talking about, is like basically if you and i were to plot to overthrow the US governement it woudl be a crime in the US would it not?
the verse is talking about that, that the poeple that pay jizya ensure that they dont start a rebellion to overthrow the state.
and clearly that is not only a muslim law, because the same law applies here in the US.
have you ever felt that your state is doing things that you dont approve of? if so why have you not overthrown the goverenent? it would be because you are subdued with is what the quran is speaking of with requards to those that have to pay jizya. we are not children that god has to spell out everyting for us, remember you yourself pointed out the hadith of seeking knowledge, this is part of knowledge to be seeked.
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Is "believe not" code for those who don't pay taxes?
believe not is code for those that the muslims are fighting, until they give up and decide to be under the rule of muslims or become muslims themselves.
The state is Islamic, and the penalty to not paying to a state that says the worst of sins is shirk "being a Christian since all Injils says Jesus is the Son of God", well, what if it were reversed, and, you had to pay into a religious state that had it as a crime to attend a mosque or, caught in prostration, or, own a Qur'an like it's a crime to have a Bible in Saudi Arabia or NOT pay the jizyah? Would you have a problem with that?
answer my question first, you keep asking questions and refusing to answer my questions, you said i didnt asnwer 2 of your questions then i answered it, then you came up with another one i supposedly didnt answer now i have answered it.
Where did you say how paying the jizyah protects non-Muslims from Muslims? Again, HOW do Muslims know the non-Muslim has paid the jizyah so they can't attack them? Is a sign put up?
Seriously is the christian sickness kicking in that you cannot understand what you read????
you are really starting to fustrate me with the idiotic questions i am starting to believe y ou are just a waste of my time sorry if you dont think so but you are not reading what i wrote:
here is what i said 1 hour ago:
2. muslims are not to attack the non payer, the tax collector is to put out notice that this person owes, and either they pay or face the penalty according to state
this is what i keep explaining to you over and over again.
for the non muslim it is one standard rate. for the muslim it is 2.5% of their wealth.
so lets say that the jizya was $100 for each non muslim family. and the muslim has to pay 2.5% on his wealth and after calculation he has $5000 he would have to pay $125 in zakaat. now if he had less than $4000 he would end up paying less than jizya in this example
so there are instances where the muslim may end up paying less than the jizya however in the aveage case they end up paying more. and i am just pulling numbers out of the air i dont know what the cost of jizya is, the last i remember being told it was 1 dirham, or 1 gold coin, so what ever that is worth is what jizya tax is, again i dont know, and it is really up to the state but from the hadiths i remember it was 1 dirham(i could be wrong)
Yes or no? For the retarded Kafirs who may be viewing this and who don't do well with numbers. IS the Jizyah that a non-Muslim pays LESS than what a Muslim HAS to pay in Zakaat once a year? Yes or no?
if you understand my example you will know it is not simply a yes or no. it is based on how much the muslim has saved at the end of the year. but assuming that the msulim was diligent on saving money then YES the Zakat would be more than the Jizya. and if the case were different where the muslim didnt save a dime then the answer would be NO, the zakaat for that person would be less than the Jizya. so it depends on the situation. but the jizya stays constant.
You're not taqqiya-ing me here are you? I mean, WHAT if the Muslim and the kafir worked the same job and saved the same way, making the exact same amound of money and saving. WHO pays more in tax? The non-Muslim, OR...the Muslim? NO taqqiya here, please.
Again it depends on what the state deemed the cost of jizya, because both of them could have saved $1 for the enire year and jizya is $5 so i cannot answer the question without the full facts as i said from what i recall in on class i attened it was 1 dirham, or 1 gold coin, i dont know if that is accurate or not, we are talking 14 years ago class but that is what i seem to recall. so again it depends on what the state deems the tax and what they saved
So, you are saying that Zakaat IS more to pay than the non-Muslim pays in jizyah? Are you sure? But, didn't you say that it's up to the state for how much is paid? So, how can that be true?
because it depends on what the state has deemed as the price for jizya, if you didnt notice muslim countries are no longer under one Caliphate each country has it's own laws. that is why i have to make my answers this way, because you dont seem to know the difference between a generalization and an instance.
for me to answer your question fully i will have to find every single muslim country determine what their jizya tax is, and then formulate an answer to your question, i dont have the time to do such a thing, however as i said from what i recall in my studies it was 1 dirham, a gold coin, today that same gold coin might be worth $100USD for instance i dont knwo, pluss the state might evaluate and say they have to raise or lower it but you are not conceeding to the fact that each state is diff
Well, forget what a Muslim country says, what does the Quran or, actually, the HADITH say should be imposed on those who don't submit to Allah? OR, are you one of those Quran only Muslims I'm meeting more and more on the net?
I believe that the quran is the revealed words of God which is protected, the Hadiths on the other hand is what people have remembered, some are 100% authentic and others are questionable and some are down right fabricated. so to take a hadith not understanding where it stands on truth of the reporters is very dangerous, because some compilers wrote what ever they heard, while others took the time to ensure the authenticity. most scholars accept bukhari and muslim as accurate, so i go by that
as for what the quran says about those who do not submit (we are talking about those that attack the muslims incase you forget the context) they are to either pay the jizya, convert or face the sword plain and simple.
Where is the context of them in Quran 9 where non-Muslims are attacking Muslims? IF you read Quran 9 (the whole surah), it s ounds like "attacking Muslims" is actually code for "not submitting to Allah".
this sura is the only sura which is milatant so much so that we dont say the normal prayer for starting this, because it is the war directive, it is how to handle battles, it is the layed out plan for when battles occur. so ofcourse the entire sura is about war. and war is fought amongst enemies, as we find within the sura if someone offers peace to accept it as long as they dont break their treaties with us or support our enemies against us that is plain and simple.
May all Muslims believe that surah 9 is all about non-Muslims breaking peace treaties first, rather than having peace treaties broken with them for their just "lustifully following the ways of their forefathers".
again war in islam is supposed to be in defensive mainly. the only time it would be in offensive is to protect the innocent, like for instance if a muslim army were to be raised to defeat the oppressors of suddan that would be justified as an offesinve war because it is to rid injustice.
You do realize that it's Sahih Bukhari Hadith that has Muhammad saying, "eating seven ajwa dates in the morning will protect you all day from both magic and poison"? He also has Muhammad saying the sun asks permission of Allah to rise again after prostrating under the throne of Allah, which makes it sound like the sun orbits the earth in a HUGE way.
i am sure you understand methaphors, from what you are saying (i dont know the specific hadith you speak of) but from what you are saying it means to say that nothing happens without the permision of allah except for the will of man. so much so that the sun seeks permission to rise, because in all honesty god could stop the earth at this very second and the sun never rises tomorrow for me. so no it is not a sun around the earth theory it is a metaphor to explain god controls all things
But, shouldn't it be the earth constantly asking permission of Allah to keep on rotating? Also, IF eating seven ajwa dates in the morning WON'T protect you from poison, shouldn't Muhammad NOT to have said that?
So, you DON'T know "of dates help protect a person from poison", but, you DO know "it's a specific date that is being spoken about"? What do you mean? You DO know of specific dates, but you didn't know dates were to help protect you from poison? WHAT!?
i am saying that i have not experienced this effect myself so i cannot say that dates help protect from poision. and i was also saying that the hadith is specific about which dates, that it is not some date grown in california or something but date from a specific area.
Sounds like if you ate seven ajwa dates in the morning, and, someone then put a plate of liver dissolving poison mushrooms infront of you, there would be some hesitation before you ate them, true?
i think you believe as much as i do that you dont tempt god, but hey maybe you might be willing to eat those mushrooms as a christian becuse according to your bible:
Mark 16:17-19 - 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
As a christian with the holy sprit would you tempt faith?
IF I thought I was the THEY that passage is talking about, I'd have cobras as necklaces and arsonic as tea sweetner. Instead, I see that passage as a Kingdom Age passage where speaking in tongues can be understood and mountains can be moved with the faith the size of mustard seeds. By the way, WHAT time period or age is Muhammad talking about with the dates? It sounds like it's for any time, especially as long as it's morning time.
Mark 16:15-18 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
it is clear as per verse 17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe;" that is all those that believe not a specific kingdom or what you are speaking about, but those that believe.
I believe the Kingdom of God is within you. But, I also believe we are now living in the Age of Grace that Paul preached. There is a difference between the two dispensations. The Kingdom was coming IN the day of Jesus Christ, but, was post-poned for the Age of the Gentiles. IN the Kingdom Age, magical things happen, it sounds, like what you mentioned above. But, in the Grace Age, God can say no. I mean, Paul prayed twice to have a thorn removed from his side. It wasn't removed. Paul
You can FOLLOW the Kingdom Age and believe it's for THIS day and Age, and, still be Saved, I feel. But, you will be gravely disappointed IF you feel that praying will cure your child of his diabetes...unless it be the GRACE of God to CURE that child. Remember, Paul prayed twice to have a "thorn" removed, and, it wasn't removed.
when Paul started on the road to Damascus it was to kill christians if i remember the story correctly it is on the road that he met with jesus, and if i recall the testimony of paul in 2 instances they were varying as to what happened.
Acts 9 1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
...
so clearly he was on his way there to kill christians
in 2 thes 2:11 god says that he will allow the wicked to be decieved, so now paul on his way to kill believers in god, could god not allow him to be decieved thinking he met jesus but infact didnt?
I guess it all depends on who God is sending strong delusion to, doesn't it? And, to me, IF that delusion results in the eternal torment of the one God is sending delusion to, then, hey, Muslims are RIGHT then about Jews, Christians and Muslims are worshipping the same god, true. We ARE then, all worshipping Allah, are we not?
It all depends on who you want to believe God is sending strong delusion to, does it not? And, IF that strong delusion results in the eternal damnation of the one being made delusional, hey, well, then Muslims are right ON about Jews, Christians and Muslims all worshipping the same God, aren't they? We ARE, then, ALL worshipping Allah, it seems.
I didn't think Muslims were to follow the writings of Saint Paul. Of course, there ARE some Quranic scriptures I came upon that makes it sound like they are.
there are no quranic scripture that i know of that says muslims follow paul or that paul was even a messenger, if you have some scripture please provide them and we will look at it.
YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." What is the "and all the revelation that has come to you"? Doesn't that include the writings of Saint Paul? YOU, as a Muslim might not have to follow Saint Paul, but, the Quran seems to be telling those who have read the before scriptures to.
But, even though it doesn't say Muslims are to follow, in away, thanks to Qur'an010.094, which says:
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee (i.e. The Bible, which contains the writings of Paul): the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."
Also: SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you;"
The "Book" is the Bible, and, during the writing of the Quran, the writings of the Paul were a part of the New Testament by then. Seems to me IF the Bible were corrupted by then, abrogating Quran 2:106would have kicked in and told the reader to NOT go to those (like me) who have read the "Book" IF you were in doubt about the Quran. I mean, HAS your faith increased in the Quran since you started talking to me about the before scriptures (which I've read), or, not?
People of the BOOK is refered to those that follow the Torah. and again the context of the verse is clear it is with reguards to the story of moses and pharoah.
Have you read the Torah? If you have, you will notice that atonement for sin comes mostly from the sacrifice of some poor innocent animal. HOW this could be equated with the Quran in being a guide AS the Quran, is, well, mind-boggling when you believe the Quran is supposed to be guidance and light.
And you sacrifice for? In the Torah, there is mention of burnt offrings, and sacrifices of animals. There is the passover lamb blood, and, the lamb was to be spot-less. Are sacrifices of animals the same as in Islam? Are they for sin, or, if Christianity is false, is it because God just likes smelling burning aninal flesh?
Where does it say in the Quran or Hadith you are to go to me and others who have read the before scriptures to find out about what happens with Moses and Pharoah? IF so, is it because Pharoah in the Quran seems to have two different ends to him?
you qouted the verse, go and read the context of the verse and you will see what it says. you can watch my video (watch?v=Re2NGt4U2Cw) where i talk about this topic.
Is it Babyling About Babil, or, "Muhammad Was No Prophet" response? IF I go there, will I find out why you are to come to me for my reading the "before scriptures"? And, if so, can't you just simply get to the point and put it here as to WHY you need to come to me for my reading the "before scriptures" if you are in doubt about the Quran?
listen to the entire video, i address the point, and some other questions you might ask as well i think that is not a waste of my time and better for you to hear what i say rather than read it.
Read the context, you find the story is with reguards to Moses and Pharoah how moses lead the people out of egypt, that is what we are to ask about not everything under the sun, because the quran also states taht people have passed of their own writings as scripture of god.
2:79
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
But, how does THAT mean you are to come to ME for my reading the "before scriptures" IF you are in doubt about the Quran? Can you give a simple answer here?
I saw two videos. Which one are you calling my attention to? By the way. Can't you just tell me WHAT the "previous scriptures are" IF the Bible is corrupted like Muslims claim? I mean, WHAT is the Quran "reminding and conFIRMing"? WHAT Torah is the Quran talking about in 28:48-49 that is equal to the Quran as far as being a guidance?
YUSUFALI: If (We had) not (sent thee to the Quraish),- in....
028.048
YUSUFALI: But (now), when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?" ....
028.049
YUSUFALI: Say: "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Quran speaking to the Quraish, not jews, therefore not the torah but quran.
either books, the torah of moses and the quran. that is what is being talked about, but the message is to the Quraish, telling them that these were messages of guidance to mankind, so if they are truthfull in their claim that Muhammad didnt bring a message to mankind to then produce a book of guidance that is better than the quran or torah as revealed to moses.
So, what you are saying is, that the Torah, WHEN it was revealed to Moses, was LIKE the Quran "both guidance and light", but, by the time the Quran was written down, it was corrupted, true?
the message of the torah is still there, however there are inserts into it and because of that we cannot say what is really the torah and what is not. as the quran states:
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
But, IF the scripture is true, does that not mean that the before scriptures ARE possibly corrupt? But, IF they are corrupted, why are YOU to come to me for my reading something corrupted IF you are in doubt about the Quran? Why am I to stand firm upon something corrupted? HOW does the Quran "confirm and remind" something that is corrupted? SHOULDN'T Quran 2:106 kicked in to abrogate all those scriptures I just listed?
i can already see that we are going to end up in a situation where you wont understand what i am saying, because the reference to scripture is used in so many ways.
again the story of moses ofcourse is not corrupted, that is why i can come to you and ask about the exodus because god knows that is not interfered with.
you said the quran says to stand firm on the pervious scripture can you give me the verse that says that?
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
but that does not deny the fact that the quran also states:
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
But, how do you know that's ALL Bibles Quran 2:79 is talking about, and, not just a copy that has been corrupted, which seems like it would contradict Quran 6:34, 115 and 10:64 if ALL Bibles are corrupted due to Allah's Word being (previous scriptures), and,can't be corrupted?
the quran speaks of scriptures, the bible is a collection of scriptures so there maybe some that are Unedited in the bible, and there are definately some that are edited in the bible, no where do i know of the quran refering to the bible as the word of god, it refers to the torah and the injeel and previous scriptures (because we believe messages went to all nations)
What does "We sent down the Law (Torah) to Musa, and the Injeel (Gospel) to Isa"? Who is the "We"? IF the "previous scriptures" AREN'T the Bible, then WHAT is it that will increase your faith in the Quran after going to those who HAVE read these mysterious "before scriptures"? WHAT are those mysterious "before scriptures"? By the way, WHY send scriptures down from Heaven if they AREN'T Allah's word?
the bible is a compilation of scriptures i am certain you know that. so that being the case 2:79 makes perfect sense, like for instance letters of paul are treated as words of god so that is clear and evident with that regards. so as i said before there are some uncorrupted scriptures in the bible but we dont konw which ones, and you dont play with fire unless you want to get burned, we know the quran is intact and that is the only book we look for our source of religion.
You say there are some uncorrupted scriptures in the Bible, but you don't know which ones? Then, WHY am I told I have no ground to stand upon unless I stand firm upon the Torah and the Injil (The Bible)? HOW can YOU have your faith increased in the Quran by coming to me for my READING the "before scriptures" IF there is doubt about what's corrupt or not IN the "before scriptures"? How?
that is where you are making the mistake, you didnt watch my video because i touch on this. The TORAH is the message given to moses, the INJEEL is the message given to jesus that is first and fromost, so when this is refered to it is NOT the bible.
secondly god knows which messages are not lost dont you think? and the verse is clear about what i am asking about as i layed out in the video. so that is how.
Well, IF it's not the Bible that I'm supposed to stand firm on, or, that is NOT what the Quran is a "reminder and a confirmation of", OR that is NOT something YOU are to come to ME about IF you are in doubt about the Quran, well, WHAT are the "previous scriptures" the "before scriptures" that the Quran is talking about? What happened to them? They HAD to have disappeared AFTER the writing of the Quran since the abrogating scripture 2:106 didn't kick in, don't you think?
Where does it say that you come to me when it's talking about Exodus? Doesn't "previous scriptures" infer MORE than just Exodus, but, possibly the Injil (the Gospel) as well?
read the context of the sura please, i am getting tired of asking you to do this, if you do you will see it is with reguards to moses leaving egypt and how the pharoah dies in the sea etc... that story is intact in the bible. the only thing that is not in the bible that is in the quran is that pharoah's body was preserved, and we know that to be truth today. so no it is not about everything but a specific story.
But, that's not in the Torah I'm familiar with, so, HOW is this "confirmation and reminding" here? HOW is this so a witness from the children of Israel can verify the Torah with the Quran? Where the Quran "varifies it in the Arabic language" Quran 46:10-12?
you are telling me that the story of moses taking his people out of egypt is not in what you know as the Torah?
read the verse you asked about:
046.010
YUSUFALI: Say: "See ye? If (this teaching) be from Allah, and ye reject it, AND A WITNESS FROM among the Children of Israel testifies to its similarity (with earlier scripture),
Meaning that in the time of the prophet a jew expressed how close this scripture was to what he had
How do you know that it's talking about Moses in Egypt? How is THAT making the Torah EQUAL with the Quran in guidance to the point where you will have Quran 2848-49 saying "bring a better book from Allah that is a better guide than these two (Torah and Quran)?" I mean, HOW is knowing that Moses was in Egypt making the Quran and Torah equal in guidance?
By the way. How do you know the Book Quran 2:79 is talking about is the Bible? Especially, when, in the Quran, the Bible is Allah's word, and, according to Quran 6:34, 6:115 and 10:64, Allah's Word can't be corrupted? I mean, you CAN corrupt a Bible, but, you can't corrupt EVERY Bible by corrupted ONE Bible, don't you think?
no, not that at all, as a muslim we believe all prophets came with the same message in the way we are to interact with god. paul's message is very different even from what jesus preached according to what you said, so this is why he cannot be a prophet of god.
But, to me, what Paul preached only differs on things that will effect you in life, NOT when it comes to Salvation. I mean, the Gospel is about Jesus dying for the sins of the world, and, Paul expounds upon that, but, as Jesus was going to the Jews, Paul takes the Gospel of the RISEN Christ, to the Gentiles.
in this case i am talking with regards to what you have in your bible. i am not talking from the perspective of which scripture is totally accurate, but rather from what you have as previous scripture, the message of Paul does not line up with it.
That is for sure. But, how does the Injil that you are to come to me for my READING the Injil IF you are in doubt about the Quran? I mean, the Injil is for SURE "previous scriptures". IF not (due to corruption like Muslims say), then WHY are you to come to me for my READING something corrupted IF you are in doubt about the Quran that says it came to CONFIRM "that which went before it" (the Injil)?
where am i to come to you for the reading of the Injeel? the only story i am to come and ask about is the story of moses, as i layed out in the video i told you to watch... the quran doesnt tell me to ask you about anything else besides that to the best of my knowledge unless you know of something i dont know about.
Quran 28:48-49 isn't telling you to come to me there, but, Quran 010.094 is:
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of
you deleted your comment but what i read what that muslims are not following paul, and that is true we dont follow him because he is not a messenger of god.
(i am about to go to bed, i will respond to you tomorrow insha allah)
You do realize that when the Quran tells people of the Book to stand firm upon the Torah and the Injil, it mentions MORE that they are to stand firm on? And, it doesn't sound like it's talking about the Quran here.
again as jesus said, with faith you can even move mountains. and i believe that, seeing it also helps, a person as feable as a woman can lift a car off her child out of love for that child so what is to say with faith that a person cant heal the sick?
I'm not denying miracles. But, picking up snakes, drinking poison, speaking in tongues that can be understood, raising the dead, I feel, will be common things for a different age, the Kingdom Age. In the Age of Grace, kids die of diabetic coma no matter HOW faithful the parents and, Paul prayed twice to remove a "thorn" from his side, and, it wasn't removed.
right so you follow the teachings of paul, not the teachings of jesus.
so you are admitting it, then later you will say that you follow the teachings of jesus be carefull. because you are now saying that paul who wanted to kill christians to get them out of the christian faith is the person who is now your leader.
Where was I upset? It's a fact. I follow the teachings (writings) of Paul MORE than I follow the teachings of the pre-crucified Jesus. I believe I'll quit following the writings of Paul and follow those Jesus taught before being crucified during the Millenium that I feel takes place AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. I'll "sell all, give to the poor", and, follow Jesus then. Perhaps I'll "speak in tongues" AND be understood, heal the sick, maybe, possibly, raise the dead.
i just want to make sure that you know you are the very first christain to admit this to me. that you are following the religion of Paul and not the religion of Jesus. so you know full well you are not following what the messiah taught but rather you are following someone who claimed to be a follower of the messiah when infact he never met the messiah.
how come you dont question this logic when you accept it so readily?
There is no doubt that Christianity and islam have really f**ked Africa up.
These 2 religions are an abomination on the world but it is in Africa where they both will eventually die.
Islam is so desperate that is now beating small boys into a bloody pulp for not learning the koran
When Africa rises again and shows its true spirituality, culture and power, and kick the ass of islam, the whole continent will flourish and will eventually give birth to a new democracy.
I can't wait for that day .
TheProphetMo 1 year ago
@TheProphetMo
You sir are a lunatic and it wouldn't suprise me if you speak to magical fairies all day long.
It's not religions that did this but HUMAN BEINGS!!!, doesn't matter what they call themselves there is no religion that is out there to oppress besides we are ruled under secular societies(non religious laws), its the west that has exploited the african continent- remember blood diamonds?
Your comment is based on either your ignorance or your hate, both of which are inexcuseable.
2ndT0M3h 7 months ago
@2ndT0M3h:
As a fellow human being, I am seriously embarrassed by your inability to use your brain to respond to me.
The fundamental remit of mohammed is to command muslims to kill.
It would seem that in the absence of any discernable intellect, you make do with twittering like a sad old cage bird who is desperate for freedom, but is incapable of escape - and even when the cage is opened by wisdom, logic, reason and intelligence, you can't find the door.
How sad - and how predictable you are.
TheProphetMo 7 months ago
@TheProphetMo
Your clearly someone who has dedicated their whole lives to a 'lost cause'. Clearly you are not fooling anybody but yourself. Africa will not rise until the day it is ruled by islam because democracy is the reason africa is a shithole.
You honestly do sound like a lunatic filling your mind with fantasies that a whole continent will somehow be free of religion and justice will rule lallalalalla....
Name the last time africa was a prosperous continent.
2ndT0M3h 7 months ago
@2ndT0M3h:
This great islamic evil.
How did it steal into our world?
What demon seed, what poisoned root did it grow from? Who can believe in such fantasy?
Why would fellow humans want to rob us of life and light?
Mocking us with the sight of their utterly diminished humanity.
Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help grass to grow, the sun to shine?
This dreadful darkness is dangerous.
Do not pass from peace into this terrible satanic night.
Islam is a complete F-ALLAH-CY!
TheProphetMo 7 months ago
@TheProphetMo
One of the most saddest and pathetic humans i've ever seen who's greatest acolodes were probably the creation of this account.
HOnestly your a disgrace.
2ndT0M3h 7 months ago
@2ndT0M3h:
So you're still stalking me - you just can't get enough of me huh?
You remind me of a sad old widow woman who has lost her much loved husband, but she still can't stop herself from crying over the good f**king she used to get when he was alive.
Run along little man, and take some time out to ask yourself why you're so depressed, lonely and deeply unloved - there's a good boy.
TheProphetMo 7 months ago
excellent response!
malika810 1 year ago
I'm not able to comment
solitair1 2 years ago
brother mushallah on the bread looks nice.
payoseria 2 years ago
Salaam,
Shrukran, insha allah i intend to maintain it lets see how long that last =)
naliakbar 2 years ago
Please correct me if I'm wrong brother. Zakat is not on your property. If you own a house you don't go paying 2.5% every year zakat or for your car. Zakat is only for propeties that bring you money like if you have a garden that mankes fruit and you sell the fruit or from your merchandise etc..
jazak Allah khair
solitair1 2 years ago
Zakat is actually 2.5% of the money that you have but did not use in 1 year, like if you have 1000 dollars and one year has passed since you've had it then you give 25 dollars to the poor.
There are other rules of zakat on produce and other things.
8elhaj 2 years ago
by property i truly mean your wealth, today it is dollars, gold, silver etc that is what you own as property even though most people simply think of land. also dont forget it is 10% on produce as well.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Everyone pays taxes, but, I'm getting mixed messages here on the meaning of jizyah. I mean, according to the Quran, jizyah is imposed as a humiliation for not being Muslim, and, the jizyah is imposed AFTER the non-Muslim is attacked by Muslims in 9:29. Muslims I've talked to, say zizyah is the opposite of what the Muslims are telling me here about it. That it's TWICE in tax that a Muslim HAS to pay in zakaat. And, the question that is being ignored is, "how is this not descrimination?"
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i dont know the muslims you speak of, i do know that the jizya is imposed on a non muslim because of the muslims' responsiblity to protect them for living in the society of muslims. it is not discrimination, because taxes are taken form the muslims, even more taxes is taken from the muslims, because outside of zakaat, sadaqah is also payed by the muslims especially when it is mandated by the state. so no it is not discrimination, it would be if in other states muslims dont pay taxes
naliakbar 2 years ago
How do Muslims know non-Muslims are paying the jizyah and should be left alone? Are there signs on cars and homes that say, "This kafir paid the jizyah, don't kill him"? But, what if so, what if the signs are removed so those Muslims can kill him and perform taqqiya, saying, "Hey, I didn't see any signs to let me know he was paying jizyah tax"?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
how does uncle sam know that i didnt pay my taxes? the same way it is known there is a tax collector who extracts the taxes, in america it is formalized as the IRS in muslim countries it might be a local form of the IRS.
naliakbar 2 years ago
So, when it's found out through some kind of Islamic IRS, a sign is taken down to let Muslims know the kafir didn't pay jizyah, and, can be attacked?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
It seems to me that you think that in Muslim countries NOn Muslims should pay no taxes whatsoever. THis is the message i'm getting from you.Please confirm or deny.
If not, then what's the problem with paying jiziya ( which means tax) plus that tax is less than what Muslims pay. I don't see any unfairness and discrimination in it since Non Muslims pay less, they are protected and has no obligatio to go to war while Muslims do. Where is the probelm?You should see the Jiziya as somethings positive
solitair1 2 years ago
Where does the money go?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
to by drugs, seriously you are going to ask where does tax money go?
do you know where every dollar of your tax money goes?
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, the money goes to a faith that says Jews are under Allah's wrath, that the WORST of sins isn;t rape, but, "shirk", which is believing that Allah has a Son being that Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. And, this money HAS to go to an anti-semetic, anti-Christian, well, anti-non-Muslim faith, even if it goes against those faiths to send money to? YOU say you can leave America if you want because taxes go to gay marriage, but, what if you're surrounded by dar al Islam?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
it doesnt matter where the money goes, it is a tax, and by defination, you live in an area you pay the taxes imposed on you for living there.
you do it now, i do it now and my taxes goes to a regeme that thinks dropping bombs on civilians at a wedding is justified because those at the wedding were muslism.
if i am completely surrounded that there is no country to seek refuge in then i start killing from a side, (ok i am being sarcastic, sadly being a muslim you might not see it that way)
naliakbar 2 years ago
i happen to be watching rambo lastnight, so my mind is still contemplating how one man destoryed the russian army lol
naliakbar 2 years ago
What if some religion that wasn't Islam, took over the US government and charged Muslims a tax for being in America? That the only way to NOT pay the tax would be to become a part OF that religion OR, help that religion kill those who refused to join it, and, if you refused to join it, but, paid the tax, you could live, but, well, be "treated like a cow fit for slaughter"? Would you leave America, or, act like you JOINED that religion only to practice Islam in secret?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Again lets address this question after you answer my question, i have answered all of your questions so far now please answer one for me.
would it be fair that the muslims dont have the pay taxes and the non muslims had to pay the taxes in the example you gave?
naliakbar 2 years ago
because remember what the issue you are having is, it is that the non muslims have to pay jizya in a muslim country, so lets not kid ourselves here you are saying for these people to live tax free in a society, so is it fair?
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where did you answer me on how paying the jizyah keeps Muslims from killing non-Muslims? HOW does it protect non-Muslims from Muslims? Signs are taken down if the jizyah isn't paid, or, how does it work to protect the non-Muslim from Muslims? WHERE did you answer me there?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
are you going to start playing games now? there are many of your questions i have answered, you were the one who brought up an example, i am using your example to ask you a simple question, please answer the question. i dont apreciate games.
you seem like a genuine person, but your refusal to answer a simple question, makes you seem disingenious.
is it ok for a people to live tax free is the question incase you missed it.
naliakbar 2 years ago
IF you click on "view all 36 comments", you will see that you haven't answered me on atleast two questions I put forward a day ago. The question I posed a day ago went something like, "what if the non-Muslim doesn't pay the jizyah for protection against Muslims? Are signs taken down?" Another was, "HOW do Muslims know he paid the jizyah so as to not attack him?" Please answer me on those. After all, I asked first, as you can clearly see. And, you haven't responded, as you can clearly see.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i dont have the time to seach for these comments so i will answer your question then i want for you to answer my simple question because that is what all of your questioning is driving to.
1. as for notice of jizya payment, that is up to the state how they take care of it, be it a tag or a bill or what ever that is up to the state.
2. muslims are not to attack the non payer, the tax collector is to put out notice that this person owes, and either they pay or face the penalty according to state
naliakbar 2 years ago
no i answered your questions you claimed you asked before i asked my question.... so now answer my question.
Is it fair to allow indiviuals to live in your state without having to pay taxes? if not i think it is enough to end this discussion on jizya because jizya is a tax.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where did you answer me about how one is protected by Muslims by paying the jizyah?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
that is not obvious? what taxes you pay does it not allow your government to protect you? seriously you are speaking like a kid that has no knowledge what so ever. i am suprised at this point that you didnt ask me what is a tax.
you pay a tax to the state that protects you, that is how one is protected by paying the muslim what is incontrol of the state they live in.
now answer my question.
naliakbar 2 years ago
046.011
YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers say of those who believe: "If (this Message) were a good thing, (such men) would not have gone to it first, before us!" And seeing that they guide not themselves thereby, they will say, "this is an (old,) falsehood!"
naliakbar 2 years ago
I don't mind paying a tax IF that tax is not descriminatory. But, when it's as 9:29 has it (inspite of what Muslims say it is), sounds like descrimination. How is it not descrimination when you have the Quran saying it's to humiliate them even AFTER they are beaten for, well, not being Muslim? IF the jizyah is so fair, why does the Quran call it a "humilating tax"? Is this metaphoric like Muhammad saying the sun has to ask permission to rise?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
AGAIN ANSWER THE QUESTION, would you be ok with muslims not paying taxes in a non muslim society and taking advantage of what your taxes allow for which includes protection of themself and their properties?
naliakbar 2 years ago
I'd like it even. Where EVERYone pays taxes. But, I wouldn't want Muslims killed and humiliated to the point where it was death or, bannishment from America if they didn't pay taxes, and, would be killed by non-Muslims if they thought it was going against their religion to pay taxes TO non-Muslims when Muslims thought that paying TOO non-Muslims was satanic and the only way NOT to pay taxes was to kill Muslims who didn't pay taxes TOO non-Muslims.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
ok now we are getting somewhere, so you would want that the taxes are equal, and seeing that in a muslim state the taxes are as follows:
Zakaat yearly
Sadaqah when ever the need arises
both of which are religious taxes, you would rather that non muslims pay a tax that is only for muslims as a religious tax is that what you prefer?
naliakbar 2 years ago
Once a year, or, monthly, are you SURE what a non-Muslim pays in jizyah is LESS than what a Muslim pays in Zakaat even though Quran 9:29 says the jizyah is to humiliate the non-Muslim?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
as for what 9:29 is talking about, is like basically if you and i were to plot to overthrow the US governement it woudl be a crime in the US would it not?
the verse is talking about that, that the poeple that pay jizya ensure that they dont start a rebellion to overthrow the state.
and clearly that is not only a muslim law, because the same law applies here in the US.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where does it say in 9:29 that it's the non-Muslims who are plotting to destroy the Sharia State?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
do you not know why you are subdued?
have you ever felt that your state is doing things that you dont approve of? if so why have you not overthrown the goverenent? it would be because you are subdued with is what the quran is speaking of with requards to those that have to pay jizya. we are not children that god has to spell out everyting for us, remember you yourself pointed out the hadith of seeking knowledge, this is part of knowledge to be seeked.
naliakbar 2 years ago
009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Is "believe not" code for those who don't pay taxes?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
believe not is code for those that the muslims are fighting, until they give up and decide to be under the rule of muslims or become muslims themselves.
naliakbar 2 years ago
That's what I thought it meant. That's what I thought.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
The state is Islamic, and the penalty to not paying to a state that says the worst of sins is shirk "being a Christian since all Injils says Jesus is the Son of God", well, what if it were reversed, and, you had to pay into a religious state that had it as a crime to attend a mosque or, caught in prostration, or, own a Qur'an like it's a crime to have a Bible in Saudi Arabia or NOT pay the jizyah? Would you have a problem with that?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
answer my question first, you keep asking questions and refusing to answer my questions, you said i didnt asnwer 2 of your questions then i answered it, then you came up with another one i supposedly didnt answer now i have answered it.
Answer my question now.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where did you say how paying the jizyah protects non-Muslims from Muslims? Again, HOW do Muslims know the non-Muslim has paid the jizyah so they can't attack them? Is a sign put up?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Seriously is the christian sickness kicking in that you cannot understand what you read????
you are really starting to fustrate me with the idiotic questions i am starting to believe y ou are just a waste of my time sorry if you dont think so but you are not reading what i wrote:
here is what i said 1 hour ago:
2. muslims are not to attack the non payer, the tax collector is to put out notice that this person owes, and either they pay or face the penalty according to state
naliakbar 2 years ago
And paying the jizyah taz for a non-Muslim is LESS than what a Muslim pays in Zakaat?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
And the pay is LESS than what a Muslim pays in Zakaat?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
this is what i keep explaining to you over and over again.
for the non muslim it is one standard rate. for the muslim it is 2.5% of their wealth.
so lets say that the jizya was $100 for each non muslim family. and the muslim has to pay 2.5% on his wealth and after calculation he has $5000 he would have to pay $125 in zakaat. now if he had less than $4000 he would end up paying less than jizya in this example
naliakbar 2 years ago
so there are instances where the muslim may end up paying less than the jizya however in the aveage case they end up paying more. and i am just pulling numbers out of the air i dont know what the cost of jizya is, the last i remember being told it was 1 dirham, or 1 gold coin, so what ever that is worth is what jizya tax is, again i dont know, and it is really up to the state but from the hadiths i remember it was 1 dirham(i could be wrong)
naliakbar 2 years ago
Yes or no? For the retarded Kafirs who may be viewing this and who don't do well with numbers. IS the Jizyah that a non-Muslim pays LESS than what a Muslim HAS to pay in Zakaat once a year? Yes or no?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
if you understand my example you will know it is not simply a yes or no. it is based on how much the muslim has saved at the end of the year. but assuming that the msulim was diligent on saving money then YES the Zakat would be more than the Jizya. and if the case were different where the muslim didnt save a dime then the answer would be NO, the zakaat for that person would be less than the Jizya. so it depends on the situation. but the jizya stays constant.
naliakbar 2 years ago
You're not taqqiya-ing me here are you? I mean, WHAT if the Muslim and the kafir worked the same job and saved the same way, making the exact same amound of money and saving. WHO pays more in tax? The non-Muslim, OR...the Muslim? NO taqqiya here, please.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Seriously you are going to accuse me of trying taqiya?
do you know the instances in which a muslim can use this? incase you dont know, this is so stupid that i have to explain this but none the less.
1. On the battle field
2. to not hurt the wife
3. to reconsile 2 friends
do i fall into any of these categories in this conversation with you? NO big fat NO.
now to your question, it depends on what was deemed the cost of jizya and how much was saved
naliakbar 2 years ago
Again. Say the made the same and SAVED the same. Who pays more in tax?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Again it depends on what the state deemed the cost of jizya, because both of them could have saved $1 for the enire year and jizya is $5 so i cannot answer the question without the full facts as i said from what i recall in on class i attened it was 1 dirham, or 1 gold coin, i dont know if that is accurate or not, we are talking 14 years ago class but that is what i seem to recall. so again it depends on what the state deems the tax and what they saved
naliakbar 2 years ago
but lets assume that they both saved $5000 and jizya is $100 then the muslim would pay more since the zakaat would be $125
naliakbar 2 years ago
So, you are saying that Zakaat IS more to pay than the non-Muslim pays in jizyah? Are you sure? But, didn't you say that it's up to the state for how much is paid? So, how can that be true?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
because it depends on what the state has deemed as the price for jizya, if you didnt notice muslim countries are no longer under one Caliphate each country has it's own laws. that is why i have to make my answers this way, because you dont seem to know the difference between a generalization and an instance.
naliakbar 2 years ago
for me to answer your question fully i will have to find every single muslim country determine what their jizya tax is, and then formulate an answer to your question, i dont have the time to do such a thing, however as i said from what i recall in my studies it was 1 dirham, a gold coin, today that same gold coin might be worth $100USD for instance i dont knwo, pluss the state might evaluate and say they have to raise or lower it but you are not conceeding to the fact that each state is diff
naliakbar 2 years ago
i am going to have to call this quit now, it is 11pm and i have to be up at 4:30 i will see your responses tomorrow.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Have a good night's rest.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Well, forget what a Muslim country says, what does the Quran or, actually, the HADITH say should be imposed on those who don't submit to Allah? OR, are you one of those Quran only Muslims I'm meeting more and more on the net?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
I believe that the quran is the revealed words of God which is protected, the Hadiths on the other hand is what people have remembered, some are 100% authentic and others are questionable and some are down right fabricated. so to take a hadith not understanding where it stands on truth of the reporters is very dangerous, because some compilers wrote what ever they heard, while others took the time to ensure the authenticity. most scholars accept bukhari and muslim as accurate, so i go by that
naliakbar 2 years ago
as for what the quran says about those who do not submit (we are talking about those that attack the muslims incase you forget the context) they are to either pay the jizya, convert or face the sword plain and simple.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where is the context of them in Quran 9 where non-Muslims are attacking Muslims? IF you read Quran 9 (the whole surah), it s ounds like "attacking Muslims" is actually code for "not submitting to Allah".
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
this sura is the only sura which is milatant so much so that we dont say the normal prayer for starting this, because it is the war directive, it is how to handle battles, it is the layed out plan for when battles occur. so ofcourse the entire sura is about war. and war is fought amongst enemies, as we find within the sura if someone offers peace to accept it as long as they dont break their treaties with us or support our enemies against us that is plain and simple.
naliakbar 2 years ago
May all Muslims believe that surah 9 is all about non-Muslims breaking peace treaties first, rather than having peace treaties broken with them for their just "lustifully following the ways of their forefathers".
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
again war in islam is supposed to be in defensive mainly. the only time it would be in offensive is to protect the innocent, like for instance if a muslim army were to be raised to defeat the oppressors of suddan that would be justified as an offesinve war because it is to rid injustice.
naliakbar 2 years ago
I HOPE Muslims read what you just wrote, and, beLIEVE it.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Most Muslims ( 99.9% of Muslims that the media doesn't care to show you) believe in that.
solitair1 2 years ago
But, is that true, or, were they performing al taqqiya when presented with such a question?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
You do realize that it's Sahih Bukhari Hadith that has Muhammad saying, "eating seven ajwa dates in the morning will protect you all day from both magic and poison"? He also has Muhammad saying the sun asks permission of Allah to rise again after prostrating under the throne of Allah, which makes it sound like the sun orbits the earth in a HUGE way.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i am sure you understand methaphors, from what you are saying (i dont know the specific hadith you speak of) but from what you are saying it means to say that nothing happens without the permision of allah except for the will of man. so much so that the sun seeks permission to rise, because in all honesty god could stop the earth at this very second and the sun never rises tomorrow for me. so no it is not a sun around the earth theory it is a metaphor to explain god controls all things
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, shouldn't it be the earth constantly asking permission of Allah to keep on rotating? Also, IF eating seven ajwa dates in the morning WON'T protect you from poison, shouldn't Muhammad NOT to have said that?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i dont know of dates help protect a person from poison, and i do hope you know it is a specific date that is being spoken about.
naliakbar 2 years ago
So, you DON'T know "of dates help protect a person from poison", but, you DO know "it's a specific date that is being spoken about"? What do you mean? You DO know of specific dates, but you didn't know dates were to help protect you from poison? WHAT!?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i am saying that i have not experienced this effect myself so i cannot say that dates help protect from poision. and i was also saying that the hadith is specific about which dates, that it is not some date grown in california or something but date from a specific area.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Sounds like if you ate seven ajwa dates in the morning, and, someone then put a plate of liver dissolving poison mushrooms infront of you, there would be some hesitation before you ate them, true?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i think you believe as much as i do that you dont tempt god, but hey maybe you might be willing to eat those mushrooms as a christian becuse according to your bible:
Mark 16:17-19 - 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
As a christian with the holy sprit would you tempt faith?
naliakbar 2 years ago
IF I thought I was the THEY that passage is talking about, I'd have cobras as necklaces and arsonic as tea sweetner. Instead, I see that passage as a Kingdom Age passage where speaking in tongues can be understood and mountains can be moved with the faith the size of mustard seeds. By the way, WHAT time period or age is Muhammad talking about with the dates? It sounds like it's for any time, especially as long as it's morning time.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Mark 16:15-18 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
naliakbar 2 years ago
it is clear as per verse 17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe;" that is all those that believe not a specific kingdom or what you are speaking about, but those that believe.
naliakbar 2 years ago
I believe the Kingdom of God is within you. But, I also believe we are now living in the Age of Grace that Paul preached. There is a difference between the two dispensations. The Kingdom was coming IN the day of Jesus Christ, but, was post-poned for the Age of the Gentiles. IN the Kingdom Age, magical things happen, it sounds, like what you mentioned above. But, in the Grace Age, God can say no. I mean, Paul prayed twice to have a thorn removed from his side. It wasn't removed. Paul
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
basically you are admitting something that muslims say, and that is that christians follow the religion of PAUL and not the religion of Jesus.
correct me if i am wrong.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Christians, in this day and age (the Age of Grace), are supposed to follow the risen Christ THROUGH Paul, yes, that is correct.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
You can FOLLOW the Kingdom Age and believe it's for THIS day and Age, and, still be Saved, I feel. But, you will be gravely disappointed IF you feel that praying will cure your child of his diabetes...unless it be the GRACE of God to CURE that child. Remember, Paul prayed twice to have a "thorn" removed, and, it wasn't removed.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
And, Paul had a LOT of faith in Jesus Christ, starting on his road to Damascus.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
when Paul started on the road to Damascus it was to kill christians if i remember the story correctly it is on the road that he met with jesus, and if i recall the testimony of paul in 2 instances they were varying as to what happened.
naliakbar 2 years ago
You think? You don't know? Of course, couldn't Paul have been planning on killing Christians AND then met Jesus at the same time?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
now i am not thinking here is what it states:
Acts 9 1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
...
so clearly he was on his way there to kill christians
naliakbar 2 years ago
He was a killer of Christians, no doubt about it. He also held the coat of Steven as Steven was martyred through stoning.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
ok, so now that we know that.
in 2 thes 2:11 god says that he will allow the wicked to be decieved, so now paul on his way to kill believers in god, could god not allow him to be decieved thinking he met jesus but infact didnt?
naliakbar 2 years ago
I guess it all depends on who we want to believe God is sending strong delusion to, doesn't it?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
I guess it all depends on who God is sending strong delusion to, doesn't it? And, to me, IF that delusion results in the eternal torment of the one God is sending delusion to, then, hey, Muslims are RIGHT then about Jews, Christians and Muslims are worshipping the same god, true. We ARE then, all worshipping Allah, are we not?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
It all depends on who you want to believe God is sending strong delusion to, does it not? And, IF that strong delusion results in the eternal damnation of the one being made delusional, hey, well, then Muslims are right ON about Jews, Christians and Muslims all worshipping the same God, aren't they? We ARE, then, ALL worshipping Allah, it seems.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
that is what the muslim keeps saying.
and what we say is that the jews have deviated because they dont accept the messiah Jesus
the chrisitians have deviated because they make the messiah an equal with god
that is what we have been trying to tell you, i am glad that you finally got to the point where you understand.
and the verses are clear, god allows the wicked/deceitful to be deceived.
naliakbar 2 years ago
I didn't think Muslims weren't to follow the writings of Saint Paul.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
I didn't think Muslims were to follow the writings of Saint Paul. Of course, there ARE some Quranic scriptures I came upon that makes it sound like they are.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
there are no quranic scripture that i know of that says muslims follow paul or that paul was even a messenger, if you have some scripture please provide them and we will look at it.
naliakbar 2 years ago
If not, can you explain: 005.068
YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." What is the "and all the revelation that has come to you"? Doesn't that include the writings of Saint Paul? YOU, as a Muslim might not have to follow Saint Paul, but, the Quran seems to be telling those who have read the before scriptures to.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
But, even though it doesn't say Muslims are to follow, in away, thanks to Qur'an010.094, which says:
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee (i.e. The Bible, which contains the writings of Paul): the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."
Also: SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you;"
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
The "Book" is the Bible, and, during the writing of the Quran, the writings of the Paul were a part of the New Testament by then. Seems to me IF the Bible were corrupted by then, abrogating Quran 2:106would have kicked in and told the reader to NOT go to those (like me) who have read the "Book" IF you were in doubt about the Quran. I mean, HAS your faith increased in the Quran since you started talking to me about the before scriptures (which I've read), or, not?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
People of the BOOK is refered to those that follow the Torah. and again the context of the verse is clear it is with reguards to the story of moses and pharoah.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Have you read the Torah? If you have, you will notice that atonement for sin comes mostly from the sacrifice of some poor innocent animal. HOW this could be equated with the Quran in being a guide AS the Quran, is, well, mind-boggling when you believe the Quran is supposed to be guidance and light.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
as a muslim we still do the sacrifice as practiced by abraham. however we dont burn the meat we share it with the people
naliakbar 2 years ago
And you sacrifice for? In the Torah, there is mention of burnt offrings, and sacrifices of animals. There is the passover lamb blood, and, the lamb was to be spot-less. Are sacrifices of animals the same as in Islam? Are they for sin, or, if Christianity is false, is it because God just likes smelling burning aninal flesh?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
it is all tied to the abraham story... the entire Hajj process is for abraham's life.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where does it say in the Quran or Hadith you are to go to me and others who have read the before scriptures to find out about what happens with Moses and Pharoah? IF so, is it because Pharoah in the Quran seems to have two different ends to him?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
you qouted the verse, go and read the context of the verse and you will see what it says. you can watch my video (watch?v=Re2NGt4U2Cw) where i talk about this topic.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Is it Babyling About Babil, or, "Muhammad Was No Prophet" response? IF I go there, will I find out why you are to come to me for my reading the "before scriptures"? And, if so, can't you just simply get to the point and put it here as to WHY you need to come to me for my reading the "before scriptures" if you are in doubt about the Quran?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
listen to the entire video, i address the point, and some other questions you might ask as well i think that is not a waste of my time and better for you to hear what i say rather than read it.
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, which video is it that I'm to go to?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Read the context, you find the story is with reguards to Moses and Pharoah how moses lead the people out of egypt, that is what we are to ask about not everything under the sun, because the quran also states taht people have passed of their own writings as scripture of god.
2:79
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
naliakbar 2 years ago
What are you talking about?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
the people that pass off scripture as the words of god and are their own writings
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, how does THAT mean you are to come to ME for my reading the "before scriptures" IF you are in doubt about the Quran? Can you give a simple answer here?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
like i said watch the vid
naliakbar 2 years ago
I saw two videos. Which one are you calling my attention to? By the way. Can't you just tell me WHAT the "previous scriptures are" IF the Bible is corrupted like Muslims claim? I mean, WHAT is the Quran "reminding and conFIRMing"? WHAT Torah is the Quran talking about in 28:48-49 that is equal to the Quran as far as being a guidance?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
when the torah was in it's prestine form it was the guidance for man, but over time it god changed to what we have today.
the quran is giving a reminder in this case as to the scripture that was sent.
naliakbar 2 years ago
When did the Torah, over time, become corrupted to contradict Quran 28:48-49 about it and the Quran being equal in guidance?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
it is imporant to read context:
028.047
YUSUFALI: If (We had) not (sent thee to the Quraish),- in....
028.048
YUSUFALI: But (now), when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?" ....
028.049
YUSUFALI: Say: "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Quran speaking to the Quraish, not jews, therefore not the torah but quran.
naliakbar 2 years ago
What does "either of them" mean to you, especially since Moses is associated with the Torah in the Quran?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
either books, the torah of moses and the quran. that is what is being talked about, but the message is to the Quraish, telling them that these were messages of guidance to mankind, so if they are truthfull in their claim that Muhammad didnt bring a message to mankind to then produce a book of guidance that is better than the quran or torah as revealed to moses.
naliakbar 2 years ago
So, what you are saying is, that the Torah, WHEN it was revealed to Moses, was LIKE the Quran "both guidance and light", but, by the time the Quran was written down, it was corrupted, true?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
the message of the torah is still there, however there are inserts into it and because of that we cannot say what is really the torah and what is not. as the quran states:
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, IF the scripture is true, does that not mean that the before scriptures ARE possibly corrupt? But, IF they are corrupted, why are YOU to come to me for my reading something corrupted IF you are in doubt about the Quran? Why am I to stand firm upon something corrupted? HOW does the Quran "confirm and remind" something that is corrupted? SHOULDN'T Quran 2:106 kicked in to abrogate all those scriptures I just listed?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i can already see that we are going to end up in a situation where you wont understand what i am saying, because the reference to scripture is used in so many ways.
again the story of moses ofcourse is not corrupted, that is why i can come to you and ask about the exodus because god knows that is not interfered with.
you said the quran says to stand firm on the pervious scripture can you give me the verse that says that?
naliakbar 2 years ago
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
but that does not deny the fact that the quran also states:
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, how do you know that's ALL Bibles Quran 2:79 is talking about, and, not just a copy that has been corrupted, which seems like it would contradict Quran 6:34, 115 and 10:64 if ALL Bibles are corrupted due to Allah's Word being (previous scriptures), and,can't be corrupted?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
the quran speaks of scriptures, the bible is a collection of scriptures so there maybe some that are Unedited in the bible, and there are definately some that are edited in the bible, no where do i know of the quran refering to the bible as the word of god, it refers to the torah and the injeel and previous scriptures (because we believe messages went to all nations)
naliakbar 2 years ago
What does "We sent down the Law (Torah) to Musa, and the Injeel (Gospel) to Isa"? Who is the "We"? IF the "previous scriptures" AREN'T the Bible, then WHAT is it that will increase your faith in the Quran after going to those who HAVE read these mysterious "before scriptures"? WHAT are those mysterious "before scriptures"? By the way, WHY send scriptures down from Heaven if they AREN'T Allah's word?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
the bible is a compilation of scriptures i am certain you know that. so that being the case 2:79 makes perfect sense, like for instance letters of paul are treated as words of god so that is clear and evident with that regards. so as i said before there are some uncorrupted scriptures in the bible but we dont konw which ones, and you dont play with fire unless you want to get burned, we know the quran is intact and that is the only book we look for our source of religion.
naliakbar 2 years ago
You say there are some uncorrupted scriptures in the Bible, but you don't know which ones? Then, WHY am I told I have no ground to stand upon unless I stand firm upon the Torah and the Injil (The Bible)? HOW can YOU have your faith increased in the Quran by coming to me for my READING the "before scriptures" IF there is doubt about what's corrupt or not IN the "before scriptures"? How?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
that is where you are making the mistake, you didnt watch my video because i touch on this. The TORAH is the message given to moses, the INJEEL is the message given to jesus that is first and fromost, so when this is refered to it is NOT the bible.
secondly god knows which messages are not lost dont you think? and the verse is clear about what i am asking about as i layed out in the video. so that is how.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Well, IF it's not the Bible that I'm supposed to stand firm on, or, that is NOT what the Quran is a "reminder and a confirmation of", OR that is NOT something YOU are to come to ME about IF you are in doubt about the Quran, well, WHAT are the "previous scriptures" the "before scriptures" that the Quran is talking about? What happened to them? They HAD to have disappeared AFTER the writing of the Quran since the abrogating scripture 2:106 didn't kick in, don't you think?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
Where does it say that you come to me when it's talking about Exodus? Doesn't "previous scriptures" infer MORE than just Exodus, but, possibly the Injil (the Gospel) as well?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
read the context of the sura please, i am getting tired of asking you to do this, if you do you will see it is with reguards to moses leaving egypt and how the pharoah dies in the sea etc... that story is intact in the bible. the only thing that is not in the bible that is in the quran is that pharoah's body was preserved, and we know that to be truth today. so no it is not about everything but a specific story.
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, that's not in the Torah I'm familiar with, so, HOW is this "confirmation and reminding" here? HOW is this so a witness from the children of Israel can verify the Torah with the Quran? Where the Quran "varifies it in the Arabic language" Quran 46:10-12?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
you are telling me that the story of moses taking his people out of egypt is not in what you know as the Torah?
read the verse you asked about:
046.010
YUSUFALI: Say: "See ye? If (this teaching) be from Allah, and ye reject it, AND A WITNESS FROM among the Children of Israel testifies to its similarity (with earlier scripture),
Meaning that in the time of the prophet a jew expressed how close this scripture was to what he had
naliakbar 2 years ago
How do you know that it's talking about Moses in Egypt? How is THAT making the Torah EQUAL with the Quran in guidance to the point where you will have Quran 2848-49 saying "bring a better book from Allah that is a better guide than these two (Torah and Quran)?" I mean, HOW is knowing that Moses was in Egypt making the Quran and Torah equal in guidance?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
By the way. How do you know the Book Quran 2:79 is talking about is the Bible? Especially, when, in the Quran, the Bible is Allah's word, and, according to Quran 6:34, 6:115 and 10:64, Allah's Word can't be corrupted? I mean, you CAN corrupt a Bible, but, you can't corrupt EVERY Bible by corrupted ONE Bible, don't you think?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
ALL the revelations taht came to you... that includes all 124000 prophets that came with messages to their people.
Paul was not a messenger or prophet so it does not include paul
naliakbar 2 years ago
How do you know he wasn't a messenger or a prophet? Because he preaches a gospel of grace, compared to the deeds of Islam?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
no, not that at all, as a muslim we believe all prophets came with the same message in the way we are to interact with god. paul's message is very different even from what jesus preached according to what you said, so this is why he cannot be a prophet of god.
naliakbar 2 years ago
But, to me, what Paul preached only differs on things that will effect you in life, NOT when it comes to Salvation. I mean, the Gospel is about Jesus dying for the sins of the world, and, Paul expounds upon that, but, as Jesus was going to the Jews, Paul takes the Gospel of the RISEN Christ, to the Gentiles.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
the gospels say that but jesus himself doesnt say that. and the previous scriptures dont say that eitehr
naliakbar 2 years ago
What are the previous scriptures to you IF the Bible is corrupted like Muslims claim?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
in this case i am talking with regards to what you have in your bible. i am not talking from the perspective of which scripture is totally accurate, but rather from what you have as previous scripture, the message of Paul does not line up with it.
naliakbar 2 years ago
That is for sure. But, how does the Injil that you are to come to me for my READING the Injil IF you are in doubt about the Quran? I mean, the Injil is for SURE "previous scriptures". IF not (due to corruption like Muslims say), then WHY are you to come to me for my READING something corrupted IF you are in doubt about the Quran that says it came to CONFIRM "that which went before it" (the Injil)?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
where am i to come to you for the reading of the Injeel? the only story i am to come and ask about is the story of moses, as i layed out in the video i told you to watch... the quran doesnt tell me to ask you about anything else besides that to the best of my knowledge unless you know of something i dont know about.
naliakbar 2 years ago
Quran 28:48-49 isn't telling you to come to me there, but, Quran 010.094 is:
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
again go back tot he context of the verses you just qouted it is with regards to moses' story
naliakbar 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of
the disputers
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
you deleted your comment but what i read what that muslims are not following paul, and that is true we dont follow him because he is not a messenger of god.
(i am about to go to bed, i will respond to you tomorrow insha allah)
naliakbar 2 years ago
You do realize that when the Quran tells people of the Book to stand firm upon the Torah and the Injil, it mentions MORE that they are to stand firm on? And, it doesn't sound like it's talking about the Quran here.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
can you give me the verse you are refering to?
naliakbar 2 years ago
again as jesus said, with faith you can even move mountains. and i believe that, seeing it also helps, a person as feable as a woman can lift a car off her child out of love for that child so what is to say with faith that a person cant heal the sick?
naliakbar 2 years ago
Is that faith, adrenaline, or, God using an angel to help her?
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
God knows best, but the point is that people can do miraclious things at times so healing is by no way somethign that cannot be done.
naliakbar 2 years ago
I'm not denying miracles. But, picking up snakes, drinking poison, speaking in tongues that can be understood, raising the dead, I feel, will be common things for a different age, the Kingdom Age. In the Age of Grace, kids die of diabetic coma no matter HOW faithful the parents and, Paul prayed twice to remove a "thorn" from his side, and, it wasn't removed.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
right so you follow the teachings of paul, not the teachings of jesus.
so you are admitting it, then later you will say that you follow the teachings of jesus be carefull. because you are now saying that paul who wanted to kill christians to get them out of the christian faith is the person who is now your leader.
naliakbar 2 years ago
That's true, I am.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
so then why do you get upset when a muslim says you are following the teachings of paul and not the teachings of jesus?
naliakbar 2 years ago
Where was I upset? It's a fact. I follow the teachings (writings) of Paul MORE than I follow the teachings of the pre-crucified Jesus. I believe I'll quit following the writings of Paul and follow those Jesus taught before being crucified during the Millenium that I feel takes place AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. I'll "sell all, give to the poor", and, follow Jesus then. Perhaps I'll "speak in tongues" AND be understood, heal the sick, maybe, possibly, raise the dead.
ItsAmadWorld2 2 years ago
i just want to make sure that you know you are the very first christain to admit this to me. that you are following the religion of Paul and not the religion of Jesus. so you know full well you are not following what the messiah taught but rather you are following someone who claimed to be a follower of the messiah when infact he never met the messiah.
how come you dont question this logic when you accept it so readily?
naliakbar 2 years ago