The 3 volume report of the ICRC in 1948 does indeed mention gas chambers and mass extermination. You've never even seen that report and this might explain why you can't quote it in support of your claim.
But it may be more practical for you to tell us what the ICRC say on their site, about Holocaust and extermination, as you clearly feel they were credible then - and now.
He presented TB47 as genuine when he obtained a copy of it, inverting his original position. He ignored a witness who knew it to be wrong: Funfack. He then carried on spouting an upper limit of 250 000.
The genuine 'Final Report' and sitrep 1404 showed an 18-25 000 death toll with an upper estimate of 30 000 dead. The better and converging evidence, from more than one source he thus ignored.
See Taylor (DRESDEN) and Evans (TELLING LIES ABOUT HITLER).
"The death records for Auschwitz that the Soviets released were fewer than 100,000."
....were incomplete, referred only to registered deaths, made clear that the commonest cause of death wasn't typhus and were more significant for the lack of one particular feature which I'd like you to name.
is it..... really..... important..... to know whether or not jews were killed in a gas chamber in the holocaust.... what does it matter.... millions of innocent human beings were murdered, that is the only important thing to know, and to prevent from ever happening again.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? HE BELIEVES IN GOD ? SOMETHING YOU CANNOT SEE HE WORSHIPS AN ENTITY THAT IF IT DID EXIST IS FAR FAR MORE HORRIFIC THAN HITLER , HIS GOD HAS KILLED BILLIONS!!!!! ITS A SHAME HITLER DID NOT PUT SUCH IDIOTS IN THOSE GAS CHAMBERS IF HE HAD THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE!.
@Bieszczady73 I went to your site. It looks interesting, but I can't figure out how to post. Do I need to register? I might need help with the language.
I went to the section about survivors who tell the truth. Have any statistics been compiled of all survivors, categorizing what they say? To what do they attribute their survival if the intent was to exterminate them all? How many say they saw people die in gas chambers? How many say they know people who were deported from "death camps?"
@mdmguyon "Do I need to register?"yes.To publish new psot you have to register.
Don't worry about the language.you have a choice between 2 :)In English language section we have a "Holokaust myth".In Polish language section "Mit holokaustyczny" is in the topic "Historia".Have you pick:)Welcome among "polish bandits":)
@Bieszczady73 Arthur Butz regards the intimate knowledge of the Red Cross of the situation of the Hungarian Jews and their lack of awareness of the alleged 400,000 taken to Auschwitz as the coup de grace to the "Holocaust legend."
Irving was told in 1965, by a first-hand witness, that recorded evidence on the scene projected a possible death toll of 30 000. Irving had by this time received no indication that TB47 was authentic and along with Funfacks denial this proves irrefutably that Irving continued to lie, even though the best information he had was that he was wrong by a very large factor. Gray found against him on Dresden.
If you produce any more horseshit, mate, we'll have to assume you are Mr Ed.
I encourage you do research this for yourself. If you are intelligent and skeptical you will see that there was no "extermination" of jewish people during WWII. The "gas chambers" were one of the biggest propaganda lies cooked up by the Russians.
You’d think the Jews would just shut their mouths and be grateful for all the wealth and power they have, instead of constantly whining and moaning about imaginary atrocities. But since the Jews gained their wealth and power through illicit means, through war, lies, extortion and murder, they will never be able to rest easy. They know that sooner or later there will have to be a reckoning.
Where are 3,5 million Polish Jews,? Where is the third of Budapest population? 600 000 Romanian Jews 80 000 ex Yugolavian Jews, almost 1 000 000 Hungarian Jews.3 million ex Soviet Jews.....???
You are living in the darkness, your typical Nazi lies filed with jealousy, ignorance and stupidity.
Wealth and power, as well as all the inventions and contributions Jews have given to the world is connected with the ability to achieve it.
@Tomislavv2 i do not have any reason to doubt you honesty of expression..However..If you are not afraid of learning what the other site has to say-you should do it first and then voice your opinion.No risk.If our arguments will not be strong enough to show you that there is something fishy in official version you can always go back to square nr.1.
I am aware of all Holocaust denial literature and with historical documents I can show easily what kind of fraud Holocaust denial is. As I come from East Europe, from a city where once Jews were quarter of population, while after Holocaust it become Judenrhein,I have personal interest in the subject.
As you are Pole, where are 3,130,581 Polish Jews (Polish census of 1931)+ estimated 300 000 persons of Jewish origin who didn't declare themselves Jewish at the census?
@ensgavry Superstition-based encroachment upon scientific reasoning. In a sense the Catholic church is getting a taste of its own medicine from these insane Jews.
We’re supposed to believe that the Germans killed 1 million Jews at Sobibor in less than a year [April 1942 to February 1943]? That’s quite a fairy tale.
MY SISTER DEDICATED HER LIFE & GAVE UP A PROFESSIONAL SINGING CAREER FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.NOW I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH LOST RESPECT FROM FAMILY BUT KNOW THE TRUTH.YOUR VATICAN SCUM PAID RESPECTS TO THE BUTCHERS & TOOK PICTURES GIVING HITLERS LOYAL NAZI SALUTE.YOU SCUM SUCKING DEMON WERE IN THE BIBLE DOES GOD JESUS CHRIST EVER GIVE YOU & YOUR DEMONS THE RIGHT TO CREATE "THE RAT LINE" & HELP WITH BILLIONS OF GOOD CATHOLICS MONEY YOU GIVE TO GENOCIDAL SCUM HELL IS WERE YOUR GOING U MOLESTING SOB
@ParrallelAxis BY THE WAY LONG AFTER THE FACTS WERE OUT,YOUR MURDERERS WENT TO PAY RESPECTS TO THE USTASHA,WHY DONT YOU TALK ABOUT THAT,YOUR EVASIVE & GREED SLOTH LUST WRATH IS GETTING MOST OF YOUR KING BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY ,NOW THAT KEEPS ME GOING & I AM A PROUD ITALIAN,YOUR A FASCIST MUSSOLINI LOVING PEDERAST & MONEY LAUNDERER ,SO HAPPY AFTER LIFE YOU GOT A NICE WARM FIRE BURNING IN "YOUR OVEN" YOUR SICK IN MIND SICK IN SOUL IF YOU HAD ONE JESUS CHRIST WOULD NEVER FORGIVE YOUR KIND
Katyn was a known Soviet crime at the IMT. The Soviets failed to meet the defense challenge, changed their story and couldn't produce witnesses. The Germans DID produce witnesses and proved the event happened well before the area was in the hands of Germans. They produced the man who found the graves. A German signals colonel.
You had the chance to tell us how the Soviets couldn't pull off a subterfuge like this in what you think was a sham trial...but you passed.
@deconneurnot Many people have spent years in jail for discussing the Holocaust. Do you believe that "Holocaust denial" is worse than laws outlawing it?
@deconneurnot Their stories aren't hard to find. Google something like "holocaust denial law jail" and you'll come up with names like David Irving, Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, etc.
An instructive example comes from Poland. Until 1989 any Pole who dared tell the truth about the Katyn Massacre faced similar sanctions in Poland. It was state dogma to say the Germans did Katyn. Anyone who did not conform to the state-controlled worldview that the Germans perpetrated the Katyn Massacre was socially and economically destroyed and criminalized through prison sentences. Only after the Communist ideology crumbled were Poles free to state that it was the Soviet Union that did Katyn.
@timpovikings David Irving also gave an example of a man who spent years in jail in Germany for denying that Germany did the Katyn massacre. Maybe Germany is making up for how it didn't give any jail time to the man who stabbed Monica Seles, since he probaby wouldn't do it again.
As with the raid on Dresden, you've had a chance to condemn anti-free speech laws and you've passed.
"Dresden, you've had a chance to condemn anti-free speech laws and you've passed."
You conclude something tangible from what I don't say, rather than what I do? That's about as intellectually sound as copying someone else's statements without quotes, to imply they're your own. Dresden was a consequence of war which the Germans adopted before WW2 began. They used it in WW2 and had it responded to in kind.
You had a chance to say what treaty it transgressed...but you passed.
"And the Holocaust was a consequence of what Jews did."
If you have evidence that Jews dictated all to the Nazi hierarchy, Nazis generally, the Wermacht, the SS, Gestapo, Kripo, the German rail and replete, multi-layered administrative authorities in several thousand locations employing several hundred thousand individuals, I'd start now if I were you, mate.
That amount of horseshit will take some serious shoveling.
You're talking horseshit again, I take it you're in an Internet Saloon!.
I didn't say Dresden was a consequence of what Germans did; I sad it was a consequence of Total War, where reprisal/retaliation was actually endorsed in International Law. The lowest level of our worst enemies would have seen us herding civilians into captivity, specifically to exploit free labour, loot their resources, experiemnt with quack medicine and murder them with gas, bullet, disease and starvation.
The equivalence argument is intellectually barren and fundamentally flawed.
To answer the question you passed on, if my family and my liberty are under direct threat, I will do anything in my power to ensure their survival. If you want that in simpler terms, if the choice is your son and wife dies, or mine does, sorry, but I'll live with your loss. Because the only equivalence that stands up is, they would have done it to me.
@timpovikings Do you believe that countries have different ideals than individuals? You just wrote that you'd do anything, which you didn't qualify, to protect your family. Does that mean that if your country had a choice between using biological weapons or losing a war, that you think it should, in violation of its agreement not to, use the weapons?
Multiple choice question that you can probably cope with - even if drunk.
Your enemy wants to kill your family. They're dropping bombs on them. You have the option to bomb them in return to get them to stop before they do kill your family. Or you can let your enemy carry on until they acheive their goal.
Germany threatened to invade an island under siege. They had already bombed Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry and central London in weeks long relentless bombing of heaviliy built up population centres.
We retaliated and they ultimately folded. The insanity of war and arbitrary death then stopped, the nazis surrendered unconditionally.
You sort of see where this is going, don't you, mate?
@timpovikings The bombing of the Ruhr preceded any German bombing of England. Hitler explicitly said that his bombing was in retaliation for British bombing.
The bombing of the Ruhr was in March 1943, mate. It was entirely strategic and was aimed at coke production, oil, steel, locomotive plants and water power.
Where do I say killing a child would protect your family? The question you're afraid to answer is, where you fight an enemy that wants to win at any cost, and is prepared to kill your non-combatant family, which option do you take: make him stop by any means - or let him win by any means?
@timpovikings "the British government renounced deliberate bombing of civilian property, outside combat zones, as a military tactic. The British changed their policy on 15 May 1940, one day after the German bombing of Rotterdam, when the RAF was given permission to attack targets in the Ruhr Area"
According to Irving, the bombing of Dresden didn't shorten the war. The Soviets were primarily responsible for the defeat of Germany, without such bombing. Your country was lower than the Soviets.
So therefore the Germans made clear that civilian/industrial targets were fair game first, then, didn't they?
My country wasn't caught with its thumb up its arse on a sleepy Sunday morning, mate. We also take no lectures on bombing civilians and dumping chemicals on them.
According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!
I can live with your lone opinion on British status next to the Russians in 1945, I think. LOL!
Where you fight an enemy that wants to win at any cost, and is prepared to kill your non-combatant family, which option do you take: make him stop by any means - or let him win by any means?
Which is it?
In your opinion, what ended the war in the Far East?
"if my family and my liberty are under direct threat, I will do anything in my power to ensure their survival. If you want that in simpler terms, if the choice is your son and wife dies, or mine does, sorry, but I'll live with your loss."
And then you asked:
"Where do I say killing a child would protect your family?"
In the same vein, what is your source for Mr. Irving's claim of the 202,000 death toll? In court, he explicitly, repeatedly said it was false.
@timpovikings That book was written before he found out it was false. In the 1995 edition, he corrected it. I believe you knew that.
What did the raid on Dresden have to do with self-defense? What scenario do you imagine in which killing an attacker's child would protect you? Do you approve of your country signing agreements it doesn't intend to keep? Were the Nuremberg trials fair? Why did you say that you'd kill an attacker's child and then say you didn't say it?
"Why did you say that you'd kill an attacker's child and then say you didn't say it?"
So that's philosophy, history and now basic reading skills.
I said, where the choice is your family or someone else's, whose do you choose? You can rephrase and paraphrase till your eyes pop. The choice was be overrun or adopt an extreme and win.
Now....
What in your opinion ended the war in the Far East?
Evans: "As late as May 1965 Irving triumphantly sent a copy of TB 47 to the RAF historian Dr Noble Frankland informing him that he had 'obtained' it 'from the doctor (still in Dresden) who during the war was Deputy Chief Medical Officer of the city.Funfack had explicitly denied holding any such position and Irving had not obtained the document from him."
@timpovikings If you know the trial so well, you know that, as I just wrote, he, soon after discovering his mistake, wrote a letter correcting it, is in the transcripts of his trial. Justice Gray even commented on the humility that it took Mr. Irving to admit his mistake. You might consider emulating that. You'd have more credibility and people might take you more seriously.
You're weaseling.
Why did you agree with my definition of the Holocaust and then say that I defined it, you didn't?
Feb 65 - letter from Theo Miller to Irving: Miller, who had been a member of the Dresden clearing staff in 1945, wrote 2 letters with 1st hand detailed accounts of how rescue units reported corpses found and the numbers noted.
"Soon after the attack we heard in (sic) the radio Goebbels spoke of 300,000 deads (sic). In your book you mention 135,000. My records showed 30,000 dead. If you assume that amount of deads (sic) completely burnt is 20%, the total will not exceed 36,000."
@timpovikings That he learned the 202,000 death toll was false after he published his book, that he, soon after discovering his mistake, wrote a letter correcting it, and that his estimate, as of the trial, was between 60,000 and 100,000, are in the transcripts of his trial. That you see that as dishonest is probably because if you were in the same situation, as you've done here, you would have lied instead of admitting your mistake. You just lied by implying that he believes that death toll.
"That you see that as dishonest is probably because if you were in the same situation, as you've done here, you would have lied instead of admitting your mistake."
Utter gibberish.
Irving still lectures that the toll could be 100 000. The evidence he had at the time of his earliest research was around 25-35 000. I already showed you the Dresden independant study conclusion: 22-25 000.
Irving likes nazis, loves Hitler and lies like a hairy egg.
@timpovikings "Irving still lectures that the toll could be 100 000." and "According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!" is yet another example of your dishonesty. I believe his reasons for saying that the death toll could have been as high as 100,000 were legitimate.
When I wrote that you called all death murder, your response was something to the effect that my eyesight was good. And then you expressed shock that I said you said it. It's a pattern.
Irving is on YT lecturing that he has a document citing upto 100 000 "missing" which he claims supports him. He believed TB47 to be genuine AFTER declaring it fake and obtaining a copy of a copy of a photo of it. I just posted the letter he received from a direct witness. The pattern is that he lied every time he mentioned Dresden, just as every published mention of it by him shows in page 107 of the Lipstadt judgement.
What in your opinion ended the war in the Far East?
Irving on Dresden for Dummies - Lipstadt Judgement...
"In the 1966 edition of The Destruction of Dresden Irving contended that 135,000 were estimated authoritatively to have been killed and further contended that the documentation suggested a figure between 100,00 and 250,000"
@timpovikings If "In the 1966 edition of The Destruction of Dresden Irving contended that 135,000 were estimated authoritatively to have been killed" is your way of admitting that your "According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!" was a mistake, you could have been more explicit. Why not just say "I was wrong?" It won't kill you. As I wrote before, the court transcripts show that he believes the TB47 to be authentic and that he believes its death toll numbers had a "0" added to them.
"In the 1971 edition the figure for those killed was placed at more than 100,000 ; in 1989 when launching the Leuchter Report in Britain Irving informed journalists present that between 100,000 and 250,000 were killed;
In 1992 Irving told the Institute of Historical Review that 100,000 people were killed in twelve hours by the British and the Americans"
"television documentary screened on 28 November 1991 Irving said that 25,000 people may have been executed in Auschwitz but five times that number were killed in Dresden in one night"
"Leuchter Report in USA 1989 Irving stated that there were 1,000,000 refugees in Dresden of whom “hundreds of thousands” were killed."
@timpovikings I weary of you saying things that logically mean other things and then, when I ask you why you meant what you did, you ask me when you said it. It's a pattern of dishonesty. To give one example of many, the raid on Dresden is analogous to killing the 2 year old child of an attacker in the example you've asked me about. According to David Irving, there were almost no military casualties, human or otherwise, at Dresden, which you applaud. What did it have to do with self-defense?
Put simply, Germany tried to fuck us over with HE, incendiaries and a few thousand unaimed V weapons. They justified area bombing by trying to hit railway stations, bridges, coal-gas tanks, ports of all sizes and anything that looked like a factory.
We simply gave it back with bells on till they stopped.
Biological weapons are like nuclear weapons. If you think the deterent value alone will prevent you using them becuase your enemy fears them, you paradoxically have no need to actually have them. You therefore have them because you intend, ultimately, to use them.
An agreement isn't worth diddly if you're the only one stupid enough to adhere to it.
Hitler left the LON specifically NOT to be held accountable to any agreement. Are you staying on Earth long?
Irving qualified TB47 by associating Max Funfack with the document's creation. This is in the mid 1960's publication of Irving's book. Funfack's rebuttal followed and he advised Irving to contact the ICRC for numbers, as they had a delegate in Dresden at the time. Irving simply then used this as a confirmation of numbers, but Irving never approached the ICRC.
Irving reworded Funfack's rebuttal as an ICRC confirmation of a death toll he had no evidence for, except a forged TB!
You're now lying by omission. Irving said he didn't believe TB47 in 1963, which was supported by the published opinion of Max Seydewitz. But he then obtained a copy of a copy of a photo of it and by 1966 was telling his readers it was genuine & supported by the ICRC. The number, by the way, was 202 000. He pushed this in the German press, his own publicity and his own writing.
He made the same mistake with the Hitler diaries and his 'discovery' that HH was wacked by the British.
@timpovikings It's a little hard for me to imagine what scenario you are. And, as when you saw no spiritual difference between gassing someone and relocating someone who starved to death without the one who relocated him intending it, maybe you meant to specify a relationship of enmity, but you didn't. What if your best friend and his family are on a trip with you and your family? You have an accident and you're marooned. You believe that only one family can survive.
@timpovikings Would you kill him and his family? But restricting it to a relationship of enmity, as I assume you meant, it's still hard for me to imagine why you would feel the need to kill his wife and child, just as it's hard for me to understand the military necessity of Hitler's persecution of Jews and the raid on Dresden. Assuming the direct threat you perceive is just due to the man, would you kill his wife because she fed him? Things would be happening fast, I assume.
David Irving is a proven liar and fabricator of his own version of the truth. This came about during the Lipstadt trial, where it was found he knew about the falsified and forged Dresden death toll, and yet kept publishing a 100 000 plus assumed toll, based on no evidence whatsoever. He also edited the Himmler telephone log translation.
You had a chance to tell what he's written about what you think he is an expert on - Holocaust - but you passed.
@timpovikings He knew about the falsified Dresden death toll and, in his book, he presented it as such. In the trial, there was no argument about either its authenticity or its falsified numbers. What did he lie about? I think his argument that more people died in Dresden than at Hamburg was convincing.
Irving published TB47 which he knew to be forged. He continued to publish it and this was clearly established in the Lipstadt trial. Irving is a proven liar in entirely legal and not emotive terms.
"An independent investigation commissioned by the Dresden city council in 2010 reported a minimum of 22,700 victims with a maximum total number of fatalities of 25,000."
Toben is an imbecile. He hates Jews, loves nazis and took part in an Adelaide Institute comedy video in which he rubbishes the A1 gas chamber as physically unfit to gas people in, and yet has made much of the fact that A1 is a post-war reconstruction. If A1 is post-war, it is no use in any refutation of its purpose in wartime, and any irony directed at the flimsy internal doors is ergo nothing short of imbecilic.
You had a chance to look at his 'work' objectively, but...etc.
@timpovikings Well put,for the sake of the disgusting behavior of the Catholic churh ,you did not need a chamber?If thats what he wants people to believe they had the gas truck & most were worked & shot by the thousands.Also why are people not aware there were 50 even more death camps through out Poland & Russia's border countries,look at the Ustasha sick twists.Dresden was an absolute great raid..Look what the Fascists did to London with the V1 & & Bombers indiscriminately bombing
weren't Ernst Zundel and David Irving arrested and jailed for discussing what happened?
okay - bring it on - I just watched a debate with John Pilger called Breaking the Silence - check parts 3 and 5 - JP was talking to David Freith of Pentagon USA about the Iraq war, DF blatantly lied on film and JP was told to stop taping - when I wikied this horrible war defending David Freith guy - lo and behold another zionist son of a holocaust survivor - why are so many of them liars?
holo caust means burnt offering - the same offering this demonic god character favoured abel for over kane as abel did a flesh and blood offering and kane did a vegetation one, this god demon preferred the smell of the blood and flesh offering - research this yourself
the jews are the authors of their own fate and dont even know it
i dont believe there were gas chambers but a lot died but not 6m
jews are sorry not the most honest when it comes to insurance claims - esp ashke nazis
Im sick and tired of the satanic talmudic stinking jews. They rob nations of their money, cry about a historic event which cant even be discussed BECAUSE they are against free speech. Parasites, Hitler was INDEED right! You find the parasites no where and everywhere because the parasite has no soil.
"If all else had been the same except no Jews had died, would you still call it a Holocaust?"
ROFLMFAOOOOOO!
Did you construct that one with a tin of alphabet spaghetti, mate? And you think I'M setting up piss-poor straw man proposals!
Someone help me up!
Why is it that Holocaust issues and this insane defense of the nazis, always only ever centre around a denier's desire to talk about the Jews? The nazi period lasted 12 years and encompasses ALL events, fuckwit.
What you seem incapable understanding, is that Jews were the target of nazi hatred long before war. That war attempted to hide mass murder of all Hitler's designated enemies (including non-miltary social and political groups) under the chaos of history's only true 'Total War', employing the aggressive use of all available technological means.
Forget anyone else's conventional view or opinion; why are you personally defending nazism and only focussing on Jews?.
@timpovikings This is where principle comes in. "Defending Nazis" and advocating justice are different. Although I doubt that the invasion of Poland was any worse than the invasion of Panama by the U. S., there's a lot about Nazis that I disapprove of, particularly their obsession with Jews, but they don't deserve to be blamed for the Holocaust, since, by the definition that you agree with me about, it didn't happen. My "focus on Jews" has to do with the subject of the video we're discussing.
@timpovikings Your mention of "scholars" implies that you base your faith in the Holocaust on the work of others and haven't figured it out for yourself. I regard David Irving as the greatest authority on the subject. He says the work of your "scholars" is "incestuous." Dr. Butz has many valid criticisms of their work, too. He says the "scholars" have essentially relied on the results of the Nuremberg trials, which you didn't deny were a mockery of justice.
@timpovikings David Irving said that no document exists which refers to killing Jews in gas chambers and that it would have been impossible for the Germans to go through all of their documents and erase references just to that subject and leave everything else intact. He said he was pressured by the publisher of his book about Hitler to include 15 pages about Hitler's views of the Holocaust and Mr. Irving said he couldn't put anything in it because he hadn't found anything.
Irving was actually acknowledging Holocaust in his writing at the time of the Hitler Diaries fiasco, but as you think he is an authority on the subject, what has he written on it?
David Irving said....David Irving said.....!
David Copperfield said he can fly and walk through walls, mate. You have to stop believing minor celebrities on the strength of merely what they said.
Where did your knowledge of Holocaust come from? Others - or did you 'work it out for yourself'?
You gain nothing from inferring something that I don't deny or mention. If you want an opinion, you need only ask. If I want a mind reader, I'll phone David Copperfield. ;-)
@timpovikings What I would do to defend my family is a good question. Since I haven't created any enemies, I haven't had to face it, as, if I had been the dictator of Great Britain and the United States for the last 200 years, they wouldn't have, either, since the war against the Nazis was unnecessary, Japan would have had no motive to attack Pearl Harbor, al-Qaeda would have had no motive to attack, etc. There's always an element of self-defense in any aggression. At some point, I'd act.
@timpovikings You're the type of dishonest, cowardly bully that I'd have to defend myself against. You mischaracterize what I say at every opportunity
and every message with which you've responded to me has a testosterone-laced personal remark. As in possibly every way, balance is probably the ideal. By being too pacifist, I would attract aggressors like you and by being a warmonger, you would attract self-defense that looks like aggression.
@timpovikings I vacillate between complete non-violence, a purely self-defensive willingness to be violent, and the willingness to defend others as the ideal. I suspect that defending against any aggression, which the United States didn't do when Iraq attacked Iran, is more likely the ideal than only defending friends and allies. Self-defense easily becomes aggression, just watching aggression doesn't seem right, but maybe only non-violence will get the human race out of its cycle of violence.
To give you a straw man you CAN whine about, what you are saying - or implying - is that when it comes down to it, someone else's family is actually more important than yours.
You want to condemn area bombing onto Germans so bad you're conveniently ready to forget that the US Air Force were masters at it, then and in the 1960s, and infer that you would put Germans before your own kin.
That's a doozy! The right to bear arms - and hand them over at will..
@Handiman544 It does seem strange that a bishop's opinion about a matter of history seems to matter more than someone else's. Maybe the moral of the story is that the Holocaust is a religious matter when it shouldn't be.
If it were not for such sensationalist claims, the official Holocaust story may not have been questioned. Outrageous distortions and exaggerations invite skepticism and criticism.
If one is interested in getting at the historical truth, that does not make one "anti-Semitic".
Why the exclusivity of Jewish suffering?! We rarely hear much about Stalin starving the Ukraine in the 1930s, Mao's invasion and repression of Tibet, or Rwanda, Cambodia, etc.
Over sixty thousand Jews who claimed to have been in a labour camp during the second world war , had their statements ignored and treated as untrustworthy testement and rejected as evidence. It was concidred that their statements were so far fetched and utter lies and total nonsense that all 60 thousand were not allowed to be used as evidence. Some of the statements claimed that Jews had their heads cut of and boiled , soap made from their fat , lampshades etc type lies. All now debunked.
@totonejoe Actually scientific evidence proves their WHERE lampshades made from the tanned skins of Jewish tattoed bodies. It is in public record on proven without a doubt. The problem with you neo-nazi holocaust deniers is you are binded by your little fascist ideology and cannot accept the overwhelming proof against you. STOP LYING! STOP DENYING!!!
According to an article at straightdope, "Holocaust museum curators dismiss such claims" that the "lampshade discovered in the wreckage of post-Katrina New Orleans that testing showed to be made of human skin" had anything to do with the Holocaust.
If you're referring to Frau Koch, even if she had such lampshades made, since Buchenwald was not a death camp, it wouldn't have had anything to do with the Holocaust.
Again with the irrelevant semantics on terms such as 'death camp'.
Needless deaths (murders) occurred at many camps that were not there purely as 'death camps'. These mainly experimental sites were in Eastern Poland, but the Holocaust is not restricted only to events in such nazi camps. The Holcoaust is the broad death toll resulting from Jewish persecution and systematic exploitation of these people and other enemies of the state, which took place across occupied territories.
@timpovikings If needless deaths = murders and if many deaths were due to the inability of the Germans to get food and medical supplies to the camps due to Allied bombing, doesn't that make the Allied bombers murderers?
Prisoners were arriving at Auschwitz well into the winter of '44 and evacuated prisoners were arriving at Belsen well after this by road and rail. Your theory that the Germans could move people but not supplies is thus crashed and burned, so to speak. The panzer barracks at Belsen contained a stockpile of tinned supplies, medicines and tons of flour. Before fleeing the troops also cut the water off to the camp.
"If the Holocaust is defined as at least 1 Jew dying due to Nazi persecution, then no one disputes that there was a Holocaust."
That pretty much defines you as an idiot and puts you out of any rational debate. As much as I think you want to be seen as well read and intelligent, people who defend the nazis - even supposing they never mention Jews - are usually semi-literate, misguided and terminally entranced by big red banners, iron crosses and swastikas.
Skin samples were indeed taken and experimented on. There is also documentary evidence that the SS ordered the making of pathological curios to stop. It therefore must have been ongoing illegally, even by nazi standards.
The IMT soap sample was found to contain human material and therefore supported and proved the Nuremberg judgement, that some attempt was made to make soap from corpses - note not Jewish corpses!
It's too horrible to contemplate, so he makes up "rational" arguments against it. All the first hand witnesses must be lying, since the doors to the gas chambers could not have been tight enough. That "evidence" surely outways all the empty gas canisters and eye witness accounts. What scam artists the Jews are!
As he told, off course they killed people in this camps but I dont belive in the numbers either. Calculating 2 liters of oil/gas to get rid of one body in the crematorium. Would be 12 milions of liters of oil or gas, calculating each body have a water content of 40 liters. Energy per liter oil is 40 megajoule. The entalpy of vaporization of water is 2 megajoule/liter. Some page on internet says that the fat from the bodies did the work, forget it ! They were no fat on these dead people.
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@Bieszczady73
The 3 volume report of the ICRC in 1948 does indeed mention gas chambers and mass extermination. You've never even seen that report and this might explain why you can't quote it in support of your claim.
But it may be more practical for you to tell us what the ICRC say on their site, about Holocaust and extermination, as you clearly feel they were credible then - and now.
timpovikings 59 minutes ago
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@mdmguyon
He presented TB47 as genuine when he obtained a copy of it, inverting his original position. He ignored a witness who knew it to be wrong: Funfack. He then carried on spouting an upper limit of 250 000.
The genuine 'Final Report' and sitrep 1404 showed an 18-25 000 death toll with an upper estimate of 30 000 dead. The better and converging evidence, from more than one source he thus ignored.
See Taylor (DRESDEN) and Evans (TELLING LIES ABOUT HITLER).
Irving is a liar.
timpovikings 1 hour ago
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timpovikings 4 hours ago
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carllutz 1 hour ago
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carllutz 1 hour ago
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@mdmguyon
"The death records for Auschwitz that the Soviets released were fewer than 100,000."
....were incomplete, referred only to registered deaths, made clear that the commonest cause of death wasn't typhus and were more significant for the lack of one particular feature which I'd like you to name.
What was it?
timpovikings 5 hours ago
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ISRAEL adopts Nazi propaganda through
-suppressing a minority
-occupation
-segregation
-systematic brutality
-persecution.
Hitler's legacy lives on with the Israelis.
Fucking Zionist Fascist PIGS!!
KoochyWoochy 6 hours ago
is it..... really..... important..... to know whether or not jews were killed in a gas chamber in the holocaust.... what does it matter.... millions of innocent human beings were murdered, that is the only important thing to know, and to prevent from ever happening again.
xAmericansovereignty 8 hours ago
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? HE BELIEVES IN GOD ? SOMETHING YOU CANNOT SEE HE WORSHIPS AN ENTITY THAT IF IT DID EXIST IS FAR FAR MORE HORRIFIC THAN HITLER , HIS GOD HAS KILLED BILLIONS!!!!! ITS A SHAME HITLER DID NOT PUT SUCH IDIOTS IN THOSE GAS CHAMBERS IF HE HAD THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE!.
twinky666666 10 hours ago
@Bieszczady73 I went to your site. It looks interesting, but I can't figure out how to post. Do I need to register? I might need help with the language.
I went to the section about survivors who tell the truth. Have any statistics been compiled of all survivors, categorizing what they say? To what do they attribute their survival if the intent was to exterminate them all? How many say they saw people die in gas chambers? How many say they know people who were deported from "death camps?"
mdmguyon 11 hours ago
@mdmguyon "Do I need to register?"yes.To publish new psot you have to register.
Don't worry about the language.you have a choice between 2 :)In English language section we have a "Holokaust myth".In Polish language section "Mit holokaustyczny" is in the topic "Historia".Have you pick:)Welcome among "polish bandits":)
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Bieszczady73 11 hours ago
@Bieszczady73 Arthur Butz regards the intimate knowledge of the Red Cross of the situation of the Hungarian Jews and their lack of awareness of the alleged 400,000 taken to Auschwitz as the coup de grace to the "Holocaust legend."
mdmguyon 11 hours ago
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@mdmguyon
Irving was told in 1965, by a first-hand witness, that recorded evidence on the scene projected a possible death toll of 30 000. Irving had by this time received no indication that TB47 was authentic and along with Funfacks denial this proves irrefutably that Irving continued to lie, even though the best information he had was that he was wrong by a very large factor. Gray found against him on Dresden.
If you produce any more horseshit, mate, we'll have to assume you are Mr Ed.
timpovikings 16 hours ago
VERY TRUE !!!!!!!!!
Lstn1143 17 hours ago
i dont get it there is plenty of proof that supports that gas chambers were used
MrNeversaynever101 18 hours ago
@MrNeversaynever101 Don't worry about "plenty".Present us with ONE .
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Bieszczady73 11 hours ago
I encourage you do research this for yourself. If you are intelligent and skeptical you will see that there was no "extermination" of jewish people during WWII. The "gas chambers" were one of the biggest propaganda lies cooked up by the Russians.
psexton85 21 hours ago
Perhaps they believe their Holohoax sob-stories give them a barrier of protection against any goy uprising; I believe they are mistaken.
irwinrsteffy 1 day ago
You’d think the Jews would just shut their mouths and be grateful for all the wealth and power they have, instead of constantly whining and moaning about imaginary atrocities. But since the Jews gained their wealth and power through illicit means, through war, lies, extortion and murder, they will never be able to rest easy. They know that sooner or later there will have to be a reckoning.
irwinrsteffy 1 day ago
@irwinrsteffy lmao i agree
REALMEXREV 23 hours ago
@irwinrsteffy
Where are 3,5 million Polish Jews,? Where is the third of Budapest population? 600 000 Romanian Jews 80 000 ex Yugolavian Jews, almost 1 000 000 Hungarian Jews.3 million ex Soviet Jews.....???
You are living in the darkness, your typical Nazi lies filed with jealousy, ignorance and stupidity.
Wealth and power, as well as all the inventions and contributions Jews have given to the world is connected with the ability to achieve it.
This ability is called intelligence
Tomislavv2 21 hours ago
@Tomislavv2 i do not have any reason to doubt you honesty of expression..However..If you are not afraid of learning what the other site has to say-you should do it first and then voice your opinion.No risk.If our arguments will not be strong enough to show you that there is something fishy in official version you can always go back to square nr.1.
Do you dare?
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Bieszczady73 11 hours ago
@Bieszczady
I am aware of all Holocaust denial literature and with historical documents I can show easily what kind of fraud Holocaust denial is. As I come from East Europe, from a city where once Jews were quarter of population, while after Holocaust it become Judenrhein,I have personal interest in the subject.
As you are Pole, where are 3,130,581 Polish Jews (Polish census of 1931)+ estimated 300 000 persons of Jewish origin who didn't declare themselves Jewish at the census?
Tomislavv2 6 hours ago
this is a good man
john22jade 1 day ago
I like this man he speaks the truth god bless him
john22jade 1 day ago
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we are suppose to take this man seriously, but how when he get some simple fact wrong?
Ashmansworth 1 day ago
Mass gassing "evidence : Inaccurate and prejudiced. Open and shut case.
ensgavry 1 day ago
@ensgavry Superstition-based encroachment upon scientific reasoning. In a sense the Catholic church is getting a taste of its own medicine from these insane Jews.
chrisgroppe 1 day ago
stand your ground, Williamson; the truth never comes out on the losing side.
jamessterlingyoung 1 day ago
There is no intolerance of other people's freedom of speech more vehement than that of these Chosen Liars intent on protection of their Chosen myths.
jayhackworth 1 day ago
@jayhackworth wishful thinking, bound for failure on their part
connieusa27 1 day ago
Yep, sooner or later there will be a worldwide confrontation about this holohoax deceit, and the liars will come off second best.
dogcplayers 1 day ago
We’re supposed to believe that the Germans killed 1 million Jews at Sobibor in less than a year [April 1942 to February 1943]? That’s quite a fairy tale.
dogcplayers 1 day ago
the gassing myth - 'this clue once found unravels all the rest".
dogcplayers 1 day ago
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MY SISTER DEDICATED HER LIFE & GAVE UP A PROFESSIONAL SINGING CAREER FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.NOW I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH LOST RESPECT FROM FAMILY BUT KNOW THE TRUTH.YOUR VATICAN SCUM PAID RESPECTS TO THE BUTCHERS & TOOK PICTURES GIVING HITLERS LOYAL NAZI SALUTE.YOU SCUM SUCKING DEMON WERE IN THE BIBLE DOES GOD JESUS CHRIST EVER GIVE YOU & YOUR DEMONS THE RIGHT TO CREATE "THE RAT LINE" & HELP WITH BILLIONS OF GOOD CATHOLICS MONEY YOU GIVE TO GENOCIDAL SCUM HELL IS WERE YOUR GOING U MOLESTING SOB
ParrallelAxis 1 day ago
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@ParrallelAxis BY THE WAY LONG AFTER THE FACTS WERE OUT,YOUR MURDERERS WENT TO PAY RESPECTS TO THE USTASHA,WHY DONT YOU TALK ABOUT THAT,YOUR EVASIVE & GREED SLOTH LUST WRATH IS GETTING MOST OF YOUR KING BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY ,NOW THAT KEEPS ME GOING & I AM A PROUD ITALIAN,YOUR A FASCIST MUSSOLINI LOVING PEDERAST & MONEY LAUNDERER ,SO HAPPY AFTER LIFE YOU GOT A NICE WARM FIRE BURNING IN "YOUR OVEN" YOUR SICK IN MIND SICK IN SOUL IF YOU HAD ONE JESUS CHRIST WOULD NEVER FORGIVE YOUR KIND
ParrallelAxis 1 day ago
Ahmadinejad agrees with your point of view. Why not include his "expert" testimony?
markhinr 1 day ago
@markhinr he is right
jamessterlingyoung 1 day ago
"he can call me a Dinosaur..." lol
RainyDayzHD 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
Katyn was a known Soviet crime at the IMT. The Soviets failed to meet the defense challenge, changed their story and couldn't produce witnesses. The Germans DID produce witnesses and proved the event happened well before the area was in the hands of Germans. They produced the man who found the graves. A German signals colonel.
You had the chance to tell us how the Soviets couldn't pull off a subterfuge like this in what you think was a sham trial...but you passed.
timpovikings 1 day ago
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In at least ten European countries, you can go to prison for doubting the Holohoax!
In Germany, if you doubt that Soap was made of "Sacred Lard", you can go to prison for "Defaming the memory of the Suds".
In Austria, if you deny that Lampshades were made of "Holy Hide", you can get five years for "Household Appliance Denial".
To learn more about the Holocaust, visit:
CODOH (dot) com
VHO (dot) org
Nazi Gassings (dot) com
And the Truth will set the World free!
Sockpuppet2012 1 day ago
put it hitler stash on him.... explains everything
baconANDwaffels 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
"Many people have spent years in jail for discussing the Holocaust." Wrong.
"Mr. Irving said he couldn't put anything in it because he hadn't found anything." Wrong.
"Mr. Irving was fined $22,000 for saying the gas chamber at A1 was built in 1948." Wrong.
"I regard David Irving as the greatest authority on the subject (Holocaust)." Wrong.
This isn't really going to plan, is it, mate?
timpovikings 2 days ago
If I met this man I would rip out is throat
ChadronMike 2 days ago
@ChadronMike
what is better on you?
what are your goals?
Lachsangler 2 days ago
what about David Cole's report?
why did autschwitz change the death figures from 4m to 1m
why did yad vashem say the soap stories were not a lie they were a mistake
something stinks when you cannot discuss something and get arrested
why do the jews teach their bloodline is superior - the same concept the nazis taught
see Nazism in an Imitation of Judaism by Rabbi Waton
i feel sorry for the jews but they should have rejected their disgusting book
moses was the first nazi
timewilltell7 2 days ago
@timewilltell7
"what about David Cole's report?"
What about it?
" why did autschwitz change the death figures from 4m to 1m"
Cos the fall of communism meant they could.
"why did yad vashem say the soap stories were not a lie they were a mistake"
because soap was a war rumour.
"something stinks when you cannot discuss something and get arrested"
So who has been arrested for dicussing the Holocaust?
deconneurnot 2 days ago
@deconneurnot Many people have spent years in jail for discussing the Holocaust. Do you believe that "Holocaust denial" is worse than laws outlawing it?
mdmguyon 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
"Many people have spent years in jail for discussing the Holocaust."
Please post the names of anyone jailed for discussing the Holocaust.
deconneurnot 2 days ago
@deconneurnot Their stories aren't hard to find. Google something like "holocaust denial law jail" and you'll come up with names like David Irving, Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, etc.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
An instructive example comes from Poland. Until 1989 any Pole who dared tell the truth about the Katyn Massacre faced similar sanctions in Poland. It was state dogma to say the Germans did Katyn. Anyone who did not conform to the state-controlled worldview that the Germans perpetrated the Katyn Massacre was socially and economically destroyed and criminalized through prison sentences. Only after the Communist ideology crumbled were Poles free to state that it was the Soviet Union that did Katyn.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
Does Fred Toben give any examples in the rest of the article you've quoted from verbatim?
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings David Irving also gave an example of a man who spent years in jail in Germany for denying that Germany did the Katyn massacre. Maybe Germany is making up for how it didn't give any jail time to the man who stabbed Monica Seles, since he probaby wouldn't do it again.
As with the raid on Dresden, you've had a chance to condemn anti-free speech laws and you've passed.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
"Dresden, you've had a chance to condemn anti-free speech laws and you've passed."
You conclude something tangible from what I don't say, rather than what I do? That's about as intellectually sound as copying someone else's statements without quotes, to imply they're your own. Dresden was a consequence of war which the Germans adopted before WW2 began. They used it in WW2 and had it responded to in kind.
You had a chance to say what treaty it transgressed...but you passed.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings If Dresden was a consequence of what Germans did, then September 11 was a consequence of what the United States did.
As long as you limit your goodness to the lowest level of your worst enemies, you can't be very good.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
And the Holocaust was a consequence of what Jews did.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
"And the Holocaust was a consequence of what Jews did."
If you have evidence that Jews dictated all to the Nazi hierarchy, Nazis generally, the Wermacht, the SS, Gestapo, Kripo, the German rail and replete, multi-layered administrative authorities in several thousand locations employing several hundred thousand individuals, I'd start now if I were you, mate.
That amount of horseshit will take some serious shoveling.
How about 2 raw eggs in mik?
timpovikings 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
You're talking horseshit again, I take it you're in an Internet Saloon!.
I didn't say Dresden was a consequence of what Germans did; I sad it was a consequence of Total War, where reprisal/retaliation was actually endorsed in International Law. The lowest level of our worst enemies would have seen us herding civilians into captivity, specifically to exploit free labour, loot their resources, experiemnt with quack medicine and murder them with gas, bullet, disease and starvation.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
The equivalence argument is intellectually barren and fundamentally flawed.
To answer the question you passed on, if my family and my liberty are under direct threat, I will do anything in my power to ensure their survival. If you want that in simpler terms, if the choice is your son and wife dies, or mine does, sorry, but I'll live with your loss. Because the only equivalence that stands up is, they would have done it to me.
Coffee and honey might help your hangover. ;-)
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings If you believe that your country shouldn't be restricted by any rules of war, do you approve of it signing agreements that it will?
mdmguyon 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
"If you believe that your country shouldn't be restricted by any rules of war, do you approve of it signing agreements that it will?"
I haven't indicated what I believe in terms of what I think a UK government should, or should not be restricted by, in any signed agreement.
Put the bottle down, mate! LOL!
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings Do you believe that countries have different ideals than individuals? You just wrote that you'd do anything, which you didn't qualify, to protect your family. Does that mean that if your country had a choice between using biological weapons or losing a war, that you think it should, in violation of its agreement not to, use the weapons?
mdmguyon 20 hours ago
@mdmguyon
More gibberish and inane questions.
Multiple choice question that you can probably cope with - even if drunk.
Your enemy wants to kill your family. They're dropping bombs on them. You have the option to bomb them in return to get them to stop before they do kill your family. Or you can let your enemy carry on until they acheive their goal.
That's the choice. Which one would you choose?
timpovikings 20 hours ago
@timpovikings How would killing the enemy's 2 year old child protect my family?
mdmguyon 19 hours ago
@mdmguyon
As you clearly won't answer....
Germany threatened to invade an island under siege. They had already bombed Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry and central London in weeks long relentless bombing of heaviliy built up population centres.
We retaliated and they ultimately folded. The insanity of war and arbitrary death then stopped, the nazis surrendered unconditionally.
You sort of see where this is going, don't you, mate?
timpovikings 20 hours ago
@timpovikings The bombing of the Ruhr preceded any German bombing of England. Hitler explicitly said that his bombing was in retaliation for British bombing.
mdmguyon 19 hours ago
@mdmguyon
!!!
The bombing of the Ruhr was in March 1943, mate. It was entirely strategic and was aimed at coke production, oil, steel, locomotive plants and water power.
Where do I say killing a child would protect your family? The question you're afraid to answer is, where you fight an enemy that wants to win at any cost, and is prepared to kill your non-combatant family, which option do you take: make him stop by any means - or let him win by any means?
Which is it?
timpovikings 19 hours ago
@timpovikings "the British government renounced deliberate bombing of civilian property, outside combat zones, as a military tactic. The British changed their policy on 15 May 1940, one day after the German bombing of Rotterdam, when the RAF was given permission to attack targets in the Ruhr Area"
According to Irving, the bombing of Dresden didn't shorten the war. The Soviets were primarily responsible for the defeat of Germany, without such bombing. Your country was lower than the Soviets.
mdmguyon 19 hours ago
@mdmguyon
!!! Incredible.
So therefore the Germans made clear that civilian/industrial targets were fair game first, then, didn't they?
My country wasn't caught with its thumb up its arse on a sleepy Sunday morning, mate. We also take no lectures on bombing civilians and dumping chemicals on them.
According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!
I can live with your lone opinion on British status next to the Russians in 1945, I think. LOL!
timpovikings 18 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Where you fight an enemy that wants to win at any cost, and is prepared to kill your non-combatant family, which option do you take: make him stop by any means - or let him win by any means?
Which is it?
In your opinion, what ended the war in the Far East?
timpovikings 18 hours ago
@timpovikings You wrote:
"if my family and my liberty are under direct threat, I will do anything in my power to ensure their survival. If you want that in simpler terms, if the choice is your son and wife dies, or mine does, sorry, but I'll live with your loss."
And then you asked:
"Where do I say killing a child would protect your family?"
In the same vein, what is your source for Mr. Irving's claim of the 202,000 death toll? In court, he explicitly, repeatedly said it was false.
mdmguyon 18 hours ago
@mdmguyon
I seem to be dealing with a bit of an idiot. Is your father there?
What....IYO....ended the war in the Far East?
ROFLMFAOOOOOOOO!
My source for Irving saying TB47 and the scale of casualties was authentic.....is Irving in his early 1960s book.....on Dresden!
If you want to quote hime from Lipstadt - where he walked away having won not one single element of his case - where is it?
timpovikings 18 hours ago
@timpovikings That book was written before he found out it was false. In the 1995 edition, he corrected it. I believe you knew that.
What did the raid on Dresden have to do with self-defense? What scenario do you imagine in which killing an attacker's child would protect you? Do you approve of your country signing agreements it doesn't intend to keep? Were the Nuremberg trials fair? Why did you say that you'd kill an attacker's child and then say you didn't say it?
You're playing games.
mdmguyon 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
No, he continued publlishing it, as Richard Evans proved.
What would you say ended the war in the Far East?
We can move on to any subject you wish when you answer the simple stuff that you're afraid of.
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
"Why did you say that you'd kill an attacker's child and then say you didn't say it?"
So that's philosophy, history and now basic reading skills.
I said, where the choice is your family or someone else's, whose do you choose? You can rephrase and paraphrase till your eyes pop. The choice was be overrun or adopt an extreme and win.
Now....
What in your opinion ended the war in the Far East?
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Evans: "As late as May 1965 Irving triumphantly sent a copy of TB 47 to the RAF historian Dr Noble Frankland informing him that he had 'obtained' it 'from the doctor (still in Dresden) who during the war was Deputy Chief Medical Officer of the city.Funfack had explicitly denied holding any such position and Irving had not obtained the document from him."
I see your opinion, but no quotes.
1995, huh? A 30 year slight error then.
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@timpovikings If you know the trial so well, you know that, as I just wrote, he, soon after discovering his mistake, wrote a letter correcting it, is in the transcripts of his trial. Justice Gray even commented on the humility that it took Mr. Irving to admit his mistake. You might consider emulating that. You'd have more credibility and people might take you more seriously.
You're weaseling.
Why did you agree with my definition of the Holocaust and then say that I defined it, you didn't?
mdmguyon 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Feb 65 - letter from Theo Miller to Irving: Miller, who had been a member of the Dresden clearing staff in 1945, wrote 2 letters with 1st hand detailed accounts of how rescue units reported corpses found and the numbers noted.
"Soon after the attack we heard in (sic) the radio Goebbels spoke of 300,000 deads (sic). In your book you mention 135,000. My records showed 30,000 dead. If you assume that amount of deads (sic) completely burnt is 20%, the total will not exceed 36,000."
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
What in your opinion ended the war in the Far East?
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@timpovikings That he learned the 202,000 death toll was false after he published his book, that he, soon after discovering his mistake, wrote a letter correcting it, and that his estimate, as of the trial, was between 60,000 and 100,000, are in the transcripts of his trial. That you see that as dishonest is probably because if you were in the same situation, as you've done here, you would have lied instead of admitting your mistake. You just lied by implying that he believes that death toll.
mdmguyon 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
"That you see that as dishonest is probably because if you were in the same situation, as you've done here, you would have lied instead of admitting your mistake."
Utter gibberish.
Irving still lectures that the toll could be 100 000. The evidence he had at the time of his earliest research was around 25-35 000. I already showed you the Dresden independant study conclusion: 22-25 000.
Irving likes nazis, loves Hitler and lies like a hairy egg.
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@timpovikings "Irving still lectures that the toll could be 100 000." and "According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!" is yet another example of your dishonesty. I believe his reasons for saying that the death toll could have been as high as 100,000 were legitimate.
When I wrote that you called all death murder, your response was something to the effect that my eyesight was good. And then you expressed shock that I said you said it. It's a pattern.
mdmguyon 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Irving is on YT lecturing that he has a document citing upto 100 000 "missing" which he claims supports him. He believed TB47 to be genuine AFTER declaring it fake and obtaining a copy of a copy of a photo of it. I just posted the letter he received from a direct witness. The pattern is that he lied every time he mentioned Dresden, just as every published mention of it by him shows in page 107 of the Lipstadt judgement.
What in your opinion ended the war in the Far East?
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Irving on Dresden for Dummies - Lipstadt Judgement...
"In the 1966 edition of The Destruction of Dresden Irving contended that 135,000 were estimated authoritatively to have been killed and further contended that the documentation suggested a figure between 100,00 and 250,000"
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@timpovikings If "In the 1966 edition of The Destruction of Dresden Irving contended that 135,000 were estimated authoritatively to have been killed" is your way of admitting that your "According to Irving 202 000 people died in Dresden!" was a mistake, you could have been more explicit. Why not just say "I was wrong?" It won't kill you. As I wrote before, the court transcripts show that he believes the TB47 to be authentic and that he believes its death toll numbers had a "0" added to them.
mdmguyon 11 hours ago
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timpovikings 5 hours ago
@mdmguyon
"In the 1971 edition the figure for those killed was placed at more than 100,000 ; in 1989 when launching the Leuchter Report in Britain Irving informed journalists present that between 100,000 and 250,000 were killed;
In 1992 Irving told the Institute of Historical Review that 100,000 people were killed in twelve hours by the British and the Americans"
timpovikings 17 hours ago
@mdmguyon
"1993 in a video made for the Australian public Irving contended that over 130,000 died"
"1995 edition of The Destruction of Dresden the attack was estimated to have killed 50,000 and 100,000 inhabitants"
"1996 in Goebbels: The Mastermind of the Third Reich Irving noted that between 60,000 and 100,000 people has been killed in the raids on Dresden"
timpovikings 16 hours ago
@mdmguyon
"television documentary screened on 28 November 1991 Irving said that 25,000 people may have been executed in Auschwitz but five times that number were killed in Dresden in one night"
"Leuchter Report in USA 1989 Irving stated that there were 1,000,000 refugees in Dresden of whom “hundreds of thousands” were killed."
Oh, the humility!
timpovikings 16 hours ago
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timpovikings 16 hours ago
@timpovikings I weary of you saying things that logically mean other things and then, when I ask you why you meant what you did, you ask me when you said it. It's a pattern of dishonesty. To give one example of many, the raid on Dresden is analogous to killing the 2 year old child of an attacker in the example you've asked me about. According to David Irving, there were almost no military casualties, human or otherwise, at Dresden, which you applaud. What did it have to do with self-defense?
mdmguyon 18 hours ago
@mdmguyon
ROFL! If you're weary, mate - don't post to me.
timpovikings 18 hours ago
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@mdmguyon
"The bombing of the Ruhr preceded any German bombing of England."
Only if you're going backwards through time, Barney.
timpovikings 19 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Put simply, Germany tried to fuck us over with HE, incendiaries and a few thousand unaimed V weapons. They justified area bombing by trying to hit railway stations, bridges, coal-gas tanks, ports of all sizes and anything that looked like a factory.
We simply gave it back with bells on till they stopped.
timpovikings 19 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Biological weapons are like nuclear weapons. If you think the deterent value alone will prevent you using them becuase your enemy fears them, you paradoxically have no need to actually have them. You therefore have them because you intend, ultimately, to use them.
An agreement isn't worth diddly if you're the only one stupid enough to adhere to it.
Hitler left the LON specifically NOT to be held accountable to any agreement. Are you staying on Earth long?
timpovikings 19 hours ago
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@mdmguyon
Irving qualified TB47 by associating Max Funfack with the document's creation. This is in the mid 1960's publication of Irving's book. Funfack's rebuttal followed and he advised Irving to contact the ICRC for numbers, as they had a delegate in Dresden at the time. Irving simply then used this as a confirmation of numbers, but Irving never approached the ICRC.
Irving reworded Funfack's rebuttal as an ICRC confirmation of a death toll he had no evidence for, except a forged TB!
timpovikings 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
You're now lying by omission. Irving said he didn't believe TB47 in 1963, which was supported by the published opinion of Max Seydewitz. But he then obtained a copy of a copy of a photo of it and by 1966 was telling his readers it was genuine & supported by the ICRC. The number, by the way, was 202 000. He pushed this in the German press, his own publicity and his own writing.
He made the same mistake with the Hitler diaries and his 'discovery' that HH was wacked by the British.
timpovikings 1 day ago
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@timpovikings It's a little hard for me to imagine what scenario you are. And, as when you saw no spiritual difference between gassing someone and relocating someone who starved to death without the one who relocated him intending it, maybe you meant to specify a relationship of enmity, but you didn't. What if your best friend and his family are on a trip with you and your family? You have an accident and you're marooned. You believe that only one family can survive.
mdmguyon 23 hours ago
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@timpovikings Would you kill him and his family? But restricting it to a relationship of enmity, as I assume you meant, it's still hard for me to imagine why you would feel the need to kill his wife and child, just as it's hard for me to understand the military necessity of Hitler's persecution of Jews and the raid on Dresden. Assuming the direct threat you perceive is just due to the man, would you kill his wife because she fed him? Things would be happening fast, I assume.
mdmguyon 23 hours ago
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@mdmguyon
All day session, huh?
You need to wait until you're sober and then try again.
Your about as adept at philosophical angles as you are at basic WW2 history.
timpovikings 23 hours ago
@mdmguyon
Denial Law is not anti-free speech law!
'Denial' is embraced in the same law which condemns trivilaisation of all third reich events and the judgements of the IMT/NMTs.
You had a chance to explain what your issue is with a law which acts against denial of Oradour, Lidice or the Sagan murders....but you passed.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
David Irving is a proven liar and fabricator of his own version of the truth. This came about during the Lipstadt trial, where it was found he knew about the falsified and forged Dresden death toll, and yet kept publishing a 100 000 plus assumed toll, based on no evidence whatsoever. He also edited the Himmler telephone log translation.
You had a chance to tell what he's written about what you think he is an expert on - Holocaust - but you passed.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings He knew about the falsified Dresden death toll and, in his book, he presented it as such. In the trial, there was no argument about either its authenticity or its falsified numbers. What did he lie about? I think his argument that more people died in Dresden than at Hamburg was convincing.
mdmguyon 1 day ago
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@mdmguyon
Irving published TB47 which he knew to be forged. He continued to publish it and this was clearly established in the Lipstadt trial. Irving is a proven liar in entirely legal and not emotive terms.
"An independent investigation commissioned by the Dresden city council in 2010 reported a minimum of 22,700 victims with a maximum total number of fatalities of 25,000."
Landeshauptstadt Dresden. Historikerkommission.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@mdmguyon
Toben is an imbecile. He hates Jews, loves nazis and took part in an Adelaide Institute comedy video in which he rubbishes the A1 gas chamber as physically unfit to gas people in, and yet has made much of the fact that A1 is a post-war reconstruction. If A1 is post-war, it is no use in any refutation of its purpose in wartime, and any irony directed at the flimsy internal doors is ergo nothing short of imbecilic.
You had a chance to look at his 'work' objectively, but...etc.
timpovikings 1 day ago
@timpovikings Well put,for the sake of the disgusting behavior of the Catholic churh ,you did not need a chamber?If thats what he wants people to believe they had the gas truck & most were worked & shot by the thousands.Also why are people not aware there were 50 even more death camps through out Poland & Russia's border countries,look at the Ustasha sick twists.Dresden was an absolute great raid..Look what the Fascists did to London with the V1 & & Bombers indiscriminately bombing
ParrallelAxis 1 day ago
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timpovikings 1 day ago
@deconneurnot ernest zundel, for one, u lying sack of shit.
dorothyspotts 1 day ago
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timpovikings 2 days ago
@deconneurnot
weren't Ernst Zundel and David Irving arrested and jailed for discussing what happened?
okay - bring it on - I just watched a debate with John Pilger called Breaking the Silence - check parts 3 and 5 - JP was talking to David Freith of Pentagon USA about the Iraq war, DF blatantly lied on film and JP was told to stop taping - when I wikied this horrible war defending David Freith guy - lo and behold another zionist son of a holocaust survivor - why are so many of them liars?
timewilltell7 7 hours ago
holo caust means burnt offering - the same offering this demonic god character favoured abel for over kane as abel did a flesh and blood offering and kane did a vegetation one, this god demon preferred the smell of the blood and flesh offering - research this yourself
the jews are the authors of their own fate and dont even know it
i dont believe there were gas chambers but a lot died but not 6m
jews are sorry not the most honest when it comes to insurance claims - esp ashke nazis
timewilltell7 2 days ago
@timewilltell7
"jews are sorry not the most honest when it comes to insurance claims "
LMAO!!!
Funniest thing I have read all week!
All which just shows us what utter bullshit the rest of your posts truly are.
deconneurnot 2 days ago
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timewilltell7 7 hours ago
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@deconneurnot
I have worked with them and experienced it first hand more than once
Norman Finkelstein author of Holocaust Industry would disagree too - why didnt the real holocaust survivors get the compensation?
I was a secretary to one and he changed pages in the contract when sale time came - I've seen many examples and dont trust them
I dont believe 6 million died and I believe its an insurance job...
timewilltell7 7 hours ago
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In Germany, if you doubt that Soap was made of "Sacred Lard", you can go to prison for "Defaming the memory of the Suds".
In Austria, if you deny that Lampshades were made of "Holy Hide", you can get five years for "Household Appliance Denial".
To learn more about the Holocaust, visit:
CODOH (dot) com
VHO (dot) org
Nazi Gassings (dot) com
And the Truth will set the World free!
Sockpuppet2012 2 days ago
Im sick and tired of the satanic talmudic stinking jews. They rob nations of their money, cry about a historic event which cant even be discussed BECAUSE they are against free speech. Parasites, Hitler was INDEED right! You find the parasites no where and everywhere because the parasite has no soil.
Wassouf10 3 days ago
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@Wassouf10
"Im sick and tired of the satanic talmudic stinking jews"
I'm sick and tired of bleating Neo Nazi sheep moaning about how badly uncle Hitler was treated.
Baaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
deconneurnot 3 days ago
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@mdmguyon
"You've written that the result, not intent, is what matters,"
It had to come, I suppose. You're talking bullshit, so it's no surprise that you're now seeing things.
Why do you target only Jews, instead of all the other people who became vitims of the same crimes, including Germans?
timpovikings 3 days ago
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timpovikings 3 days ago
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@mdmguyon
"If all else had been the same except no Jews had died, would you still call it a Holocaust?"
ROFLMFAOOOOOO!
Did you construct that one with a tin of alphabet spaghetti, mate? And you think I'M setting up piss-poor straw man proposals!
Someone help me up!
Why is it that Holocaust issues and this insane defense of the nazis, always only ever centre around a denier's desire to talk about the Jews? The nazi period lasted 12 years and encompasses ALL events, fuckwit.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings
What you seem incapable understanding, is that Jews were the target of nazi hatred long before war. That war attempted to hide mass murder of all Hitler's designated enemies (including non-miltary social and political groups) under the chaos of history's only true 'Total War', employing the aggressive use of all available technological means.
Forget anyone else's conventional view or opinion; why are you personally defending nazism and only focussing on Jews?.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings This is where principle comes in. "Defending Nazis" and advocating justice are different. Although I doubt that the invasion of Poland was any worse than the invasion of Panama by the U. S., there's a lot about Nazis that I disapprove of, particularly their obsession with Jews, but they don't deserve to be blamed for the Holocaust, since, by the definition that you agree with me about, it didn't happen. My "focus on Jews" has to do with the subject of the video we're discussing.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
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timpovikings 3 days ago
@mdmguyon
You defined Holocaust, bright lad. I didn't.
But you know better than three generations of scholars, don't you?
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings Your mention of "scholars" implies that you base your faith in the Holocaust on the work of others and haven't figured it out for yourself. I regard David Irving as the greatest authority on the subject. He says the work of your "scholars" is "incestuous." Dr. Butz has many valid criticisms of their work, too. He says the "scholars" have essentially relied on the results of the Nuremberg trials, which you didn't deny were a mockery of justice.
mdmguyon 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
What has David Irving written on Holocaust?
timpovikings 2 days ago
@timpovikings David Irving said that no document exists which refers to killing Jews in gas chambers and that it would have been impossible for the Germans to go through all of their documents and erase references just to that subject and leave everything else intact. He said he was pressured by the publisher of his book about Hitler to include 15 pages about Hitler's views of the Holocaust and Mr. Irving said he couldn't put anything in it because he hadn't found anything.
mdmguyon 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
Irving was actually acknowledging Holocaust in his writing at the time of the Hitler Diaries fiasco, but as you think he is an authority on the subject, what has he written on it?
David Irving said....David Irving said.....!
David Copperfield said he can fly and walk through walls, mate. You have to stop believing minor celebrities on the strength of merely what they said.
Where did your knowledge of Holocaust come from? Others - or did you 'work it out for yourself'?
timpovikings 2 days ago
@timpovikings David Irving said he was fined $22,000 in Germany for saying that the gas chamber at Auschwitz was built in 1948.
mdmguyon 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
"implies that you base your faith in the Holocaust on the work of others and haven't figured it out for yourself"
!!!
Where did your knowledge of the Holocaust come from?
timpovikings 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
Nuremberg.
You gain nothing from inferring something that I don't deny or mention. If you want an opinion, you need only ask. If I want a mind reader, I'll phone David Copperfield. ;-)
timpovikings 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
You seem to be planting the mines and linedancing out of the minefield, mate.
Oh No!
Did you go straight back out and buy another bottle?
timpovikings 2 days ago
@mdmguyon
Would you do anything to keep your and your family's liberty?
Let's stay on this. I think you should answer it.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings What I would do to defend my family is a good question. Since I haven't created any enemies, I haven't had to face it, as, if I had been the dictator of Great Britain and the United States for the last 200 years, they wouldn't have, either, since the war against the Nazis was unnecessary, Japan would have had no motive to attack Pearl Harbor, al-Qaeda would have had no motive to attack, etc. There's always an element of self-defense in any aggression. At some point, I'd act.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
@timpovikings You're the type of dishonest, cowardly bully that I'd have to defend myself against. You mischaracterize what I say at every opportunity
and every message with which you've responded to me has a testosterone-laced personal remark. As in possibly every way, balance is probably the ideal. By being too pacifist, I would attract aggressors like you and by being a warmonger, you would attract self-defense that looks like aggression.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
@timpovikings I vacillate between complete non-violence, a purely self-defensive willingness to be violent, and the willingness to defend others as the ideal. I suspect that defending against any aggression, which the United States didn't do when Iraq attacked Iran, is more likely the ideal than only defending friends and allies. Self-defense easily becomes aggression, just watching aggression doesn't seem right, but maybe only non-violence will get the human race out of its cycle of violence.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
@mdmguyon
To give you a straw man you CAN whine about, what you are saying - or implying - is that when it comes down to it, someone else's family is actually more important than yours.
You want to condemn area bombing onto Germans so bad you're conveniently ready to forget that the US Air Force were masters at it, then and in the 1960s, and infer that you would put Germans before your own kin.
That's a doozy! The right to bear arms - and hand them over at will..
Priceless.
timpovikings 3 days ago
Read the "RUDOLF REPORT" people, the scientific evidence says that the Gas Chambers Never Exist
Darken0927 3 days ago
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In Germany, if you doubt that Soap was made of "Sacred Lard", you can go to prison for "Defaming the memory of the Suds".
In Austria, if you deny that Lampshades were made of "Holy Hide", you can get five years for "Household Appliance Denial".
To learn more about the Holocaust, visit:
CODOH (dot) com
VHO (dot) org
Nazi Gassings (dot) com
And the Truth will set the World free!
Sockpuppet2012 3 days ago
Why does anyone care what this man thinks anyway?!!? Who is he and why do we give credit to his words?
Handiman544 3 days ago
@Handiman544 It does seem strange that a bishop's opinion about a matter of history seems to matter more than someone else's. Maybe the moral of the story is that the Holocaust is a religious matter when it shouldn't be.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
This man is TOTALLY delusional!!!!!! I boggles the mind how these people can exist.
Handiman544 3 days ago
He is so full of s**t. After several visits to yad vshem He is so full of it . He is anti truth.
JTHarmon1 3 days ago
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If it were not for such sensationalist claims, the official Holocaust story may not have been questioned. Outrageous distortions and exaggerations invite skepticism and criticism.
If one is interested in getting at the historical truth, that does not make one "anti-Semitic".
Why the exclusivity of Jewish suffering?! We rarely hear much about Stalin starving the Ukraine in the 1930s, Mao's invasion and repression of Tibet, or Rwanda, Cambodia, etc.
ZLarryZB 4 days ago
Over sixty thousand Jews who claimed to have been in a labour camp during the second world war , had their statements ignored and treated as untrustworthy testement and rejected as evidence. It was concidred that their statements were so far fetched and utter lies and total nonsense that all 60 thousand were not allowed to be used as evidence. Some of the statements claimed that Jews had their heads cut of and boiled , soap made from their fat , lampshades etc type lies. All now debunked.
totonejoe 4 days ago
@totonejoe Was the same true of testimonies that weren't considered to have gone far enough?
mdmguyon 4 days ago
@totonejoe Actually scientific evidence proves their WHERE lampshades made from the tanned skins of Jewish tattoed bodies. It is in public record on proven without a doubt. The problem with you neo-nazi holocaust deniers is you are binded by your little fascist ideology and cannot accept the overwhelming proof against you. STOP LYING! STOP DENYING!!!
PompeyNaziWatch 4 days ago
@PompeyNaziWatch What is your source?
According to an article at straightdope, "Holocaust museum curators dismiss such claims" that the "lampshade discovered in the wreckage of post-Katrina New Orleans that testing showed to be made of human skin" had anything to do with the Holocaust.
If you're referring to Frau Koch, even if she had such lampshades made, since Buchenwald was not a death camp, it wouldn't have had anything to do with the Holocaust.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
@mdmguyon
Again with the irrelevant semantics on terms such as 'death camp'.
Needless deaths (murders) occurred at many camps that were not there purely as 'death camps'. These mainly experimental sites were in Eastern Poland, but the Holocaust is not restricted only to events in such nazi camps. The Holcoaust is the broad death toll resulting from Jewish persecution and systematic exploitation of these people and other enemies of the state, which took place across occupied territories.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings If needless deaths = murders and if many deaths were due to the inability of the Germans to get food and medical supplies to the camps due to Allied bombing, doesn't that make the Allied bombers murderers?
mdmguyon 3 days ago
@mdmguyon
Allied bombers and starvation.
That's a serious proposal, is it?!
Prisoners were arriving at Auschwitz well into the winter of '44 and evacuated prisoners were arriving at Belsen well after this by road and rail. Your theory that the Germans could move people but not supplies is thus crashed and burned, so to speak. The panzer barracks at Belsen contained a stockpile of tinned supplies, medicines and tons of flour. Before fleeing the troops also cut the water off to the camp.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@timpovikings If the Holocaust is defined as at least 1 Jew dying due to Nazi persecution, then no one disputes that there was a Holocaust.
mdmguyon 3 days ago
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@mdmguyon
"If the Holocaust is defined as at least 1 Jew dying due to Nazi persecution, then no one disputes that there was a Holocaust."
That pretty much defines you as an idiot and puts you out of any rational debate. As much as I think you want to be seen as well read and intelligent, people who defend the nazis - even supposing they never mention Jews - are usually semi-literate, misguided and terminally entranced by big red banners, iron crosses and swastikas.
Grow up, mate.
timpovikings 3 days ago
@mdmguyon
Skin, soap and shrunken heads.
Skin samples were indeed taken and experimented on. There is also documentary evidence that the SS ordered the making of pathological curios to stop. It therefore must have been ongoing illegally, even by nazi standards.
The IMT soap sample was found to contain human material and therefore supported and proved the Nuremberg judgement, that some attempt was made to make soap from corpses - note not Jewish corpses!
timpovikings 3 days ago
Chinese Christian in Asia: This mentally ill evil man has a agenda ! Its quite obvious he is possessed by a demon! Satan is waiting for him!
ccasia2008 2 days ago
great man,i respect him!!
teshanovic1 4 days ago
yep no seal no gas chamber no deaths no holocaust simple
vorlons100 4 days ago
It's too horrible to contemplate, so he makes up "rational" arguments against it. All the first hand witnesses must be lying, since the doors to the gas chambers could not have been tight enough. That "evidence" surely outways all the empty gas canisters and eye witness accounts. What scam artists the Jews are!
kbpdsaas 4 days ago
The jews caused the holocaust, and the innocent nazis were gassed by them.
redsnailer 4 days ago
@redsnailer Are you kidding me? Where the heck do you get your insane information?! If you're being serious, that is!
SeverusLupinlover 4 days ago
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In at least ten European countries, you can go to prison for doubting the Holohoax!
In Germany, if you doubt that Soap was made of "Sacred Lard", you can go to prison for "Defaming the memory of the Suds".
In Austria, if you deny that Lampshades were made of "Holy Hide", you can get five years for "Household Appliance Denial".
To learn more about the Holocaust, visit:
CODOH (dot) com
VHO (dot) org
Nazi Gassings (dot) com
And the Truth will set the World free!
Sockpuppet2012 4 days ago
As he told, off course they killed people in this camps but I dont belive in the numbers either. Calculating 2 liters of oil/gas to get rid of one body in the crematorium. Would be 12 milions of liters of oil or gas, calculating each body have a water content of 40 liters. Energy per liter oil is 40 megajoule. The entalpy of vaporization of water is 2 megajoule/liter. Some page on internet says that the fat from the bodies did the work, forget it ! They were no fat on these dead people.
kemirockarfett 4 days ago
Gee where did all the zyclon B gas go?? What an asshole!
enubus1 5 days ago
@enubus1 Where did all the Zyklon B at Dachau go?
mdmguyon 5 days ago
.........This guy......is AWESOME!
Hairmetaller86 5 days ago
THE WORLD ISNT FLAT !!! you heard it here first !
Nedala88 5 days ago
@Nedala88 How can you hate flat earthers like that?
md