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  • Also, you are not 'visualising sound' but the behaviour of the medium itself. For example, the patterns formed on a plate are not impressions of the initial sound, but of where there is least movement on the plate. If you weakened the plate in those areas, it would react differently and produce different patterns with the same sound. Of course, sound requires the medium, but it is the nature and dynamics of the medium and not the stimulus that is forming the patterns.

  • This kind of wave phenomena is not some mysterious new science, but is actually a well understood consequence of energy distrubution. These 2D and 3D patterns are equivalent to the 1D waveforms that can easily be observed along a string. The problem is, most people can only be bothered to understand the very basics of things and then they run with it, proporting to be experts, usually with a dodgy degree in metaphysics.

  • Gregorian Chant utilized the original hertz vibrations that create a dynamic change on the body (healing, alleviating depression, curing sickness, can survive on less than 3 hours of sleep a day etc). Google "Good Vibrations" for the research

  • this stuff is old.

  • @midinerd So????

  • @Jesuisquejesuis I'm not saying 'old' like 2009 old. I'm saying old like "keynote on windows 3.1 for workgroups" old.

  • Why did he leave out Helmholtz's volume "On the Sensations of Tone>"

  • @divebrakes Amen. Helmholtz is the man.

  • this Evan Grant really does talk shit.

    he has no grasp of anything.

  • @saifurrt why you say that. this is my first time watchin this vid

  • This is an awsome vedio that I started out watching it in my Tech class .. Awsome info a must see !

    

  • The Universe is one big hologram and every small part is just a smaller representation of the whole. Just think, if the human-body is made up of mostly water, then what does music or vibrations do to you in a Cymatic-scheme of things!? ;-)

  • Please, I'm trying to figure out how to tune the solfeggio frequencies on keyboards. There is conflicting tuning data on the exact frequency tuning due to decimal points, etc...I was wondering if you have used cymatics to find the frequency to each shape that each frequency has produced? If so, do any of the frequencies relate to solfeggio, if then, what are the shapes?

  • LSD

  • i agree. i came here for cymatics. what is this bullshit? i got more from the wikipedia article (and that was badly referenced giberrish too).

  • Lol, Evan Grant demonstrates the science and art of cymatics.

    No, he verbalises the wikipedia cymatics article, and mentions dolphins. That is all. No original thoughts here.

  • You are correct imboycrywolf. There is no originality here. And the lecture is basically a word for word copy paste job from the Wikipedia article on cymatics. Some people are just shameless plagiarists.

  • I'm pretty sure I've seen this a hundred times before in music visualizers.

  • sound is my life long passion i trying to find the prefect sound & i want to see

    what it looks like CYMATICS is so wonderful i want to learn as much as i can

    can any one help me grow my knowledge

  • idiots don like this

  • i love this

  • what a load off bullshit.

    not a single mention of Fourier or even harmonics.

    this guy is a fucking shill. and what the hell is a creative technologist?

    it sounds like a self-appointed title to me.

  • @TheUnityGrope I'm trying to study more on cymatics....

    What do you know about Fourier?

    Can you shoot me a link please?

    @covellz

  • @covellz

    study electrical engineering / mathematics is the best course to learning of Fourier.

    Cymatics is nice to look at, but it is pretty useless generally speaking.

    The fact that it is generally usesless (except for annoying dolphins), isn't helped by this vague and rambling video.

  • @TheUnityGrope Agreed, thanks

  • someone should tell this dumbass that there are already methods for visualising sound:

    oscilloscopes and winamp.

    how is this guy qualified to say anything, what is his background? what are his credentials?

  • someone should tell this dumbass that there are already methods for visualising sound:

    oscilloscopes and winamp.

    how is this guy qualified to say anything, what is his background? what are his credentials?

  • @RealRussellAnderson hes not trying to come up with a new way to see sound idiot... hes just trying to convince people that this field is worth being researched more, damn where you not paying attention at all!!??

  • @neogeo3200

    The video is a word for word copy of the Wikipedia article. You would have noticed if you had been paying attention. And as far as I know, pink Floyd have never released a tune called "the machine". And just for the record, academia normally requires more convincing than a wiki article.

  • this guy has used the word "science" about 7 times.

    He used the phrase "magnifying glass into nature" twice.

    and said ABSOLUTELEY FUCK ALL ELSE.

    who the fuck is this guy?

  • Comment removed

  • @baronmorris: There can be no cymatics in space because there is no air in space, and sound needs air to travel.

  • @dereksh23 he probably referred to an air chamber in zero gravity environment, like a space station...

  • DOES ANYONE KNOW if there have been any cymatics experiments in space? Would the forms created by vibrations perhaps be 3 dimensional, floating in the air? an interesting thought.

    cheers

  • awesome :) bravo!

  • i would like to see Animal collective under Cymatics

  • What I'm interested in is decoding the sound from the shapes in nature--if we have the means to figure out the corresponding shape of a sound, then we should be able to do this in reverse.

    Think about it--what's the sound of a snowflake? Of a carbon atom and the earth's magnetic field?

  • what is the vocal performance on the end?

  • thats beautiful, makes u think about the idea of solidity and matter being absolute, when really most of matter is empty space, so its crazy to think matter really is an illusion, and it only has form because of the music of the universe. wow.

  • interesting!

  • If the plater is round instead of square you just get concentric circles.

  • Pretty patterns !

    You can do this better on computer and in 3D !

  • where can I get the software to do this?

  • is not that the reason we magically called it the uni-verse ? i believe, once we are finally in harmony with each other as opposed to being opposed with each other, we will surely re/create the uni-verse....

    nv

  • Only a simpleton would quote the bible like its science or fact. Its a fairytale !!!!!!!! quote the night before christmas I like the part about reindeer on the roof!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @olderbluesfan You can't quote the bible like its fact, but you also can't prove its a fairytale or someone would have already proven this fact. I hate people who push their beliefs on others, and I thus agree with you, but the fact that religion does believe that a higher power is above science does mean that its existence cannot be proven or disproven by science. So, although you can say the bible is not fact, you also can't say its necessarily made up.

  • @olderbluesfan Unlike most fairytales this one has history, people and power to actually answer to critisism with trutful answers.

  • The talk was very light but the subject very interesting.

  • I like the final video, the one light brings others into the light, if they want.

  • Did he imply in the video that the vibrations of certain sounds actually have something to do with how starfish and snowflakes form? Or was that just a tangent of "look at the pretty picture"?

  • I want to use cymatics to visualize thunder.

  • why are you guys talking about religion. religion is nothing but a false ideal to give people hope. the bible is nothing but stories to create morality.

    if you don't believe in god. just keep quiet. if you fight with people who do, it just means you aren't sure of your decision without everyone else believing such a concept.

    they are fighting to keep 'us' out of hell. 'you' are fighting because 'you' want them to take 'you' out of the hell you are living; which most of us call truth.

  • Oh my god! I want that very last image (all the colourfull bubble's) as a HD wallpaper! Anyone know where I could find that ? Is it a Nokia commercial ?

  • umm did i miss something thwere?

  • btb and I'm only parrotting stuff I've heard on vids, not only can HAARP excite and heat molecules in particular places in the atmosphere this means weather systems can be manipulated and also, supposedly HAARP has a localised effect on the human brain and certain emotions like fear or panic can theoretically also be 'broadcast' to human beings. I have heard of several different applications it may be used for, but the most obvious one is the weather manipulation. 'Katrina' was a a 'tryout'...

  • Iwanna from what little I have read gravity is a great deal stronger than folks understand. ask yrself what holds together entire galaxies, like a wheel around a hub. Supermassive black holes formed by immense gravitational forces cause such savage gravity 'suction' that their immense 'inner' mass, the singularity, actually holds everything, like the entire Milky Way for example in its inexorable grip. So gravity is not just the force of something dropping on the ground...it gets very intense.

  • Of course, as we all know, the great Nikola Tesla said 'The earth is a sonic resonator'. This is the principle that allows the HAARP nightmare to be carried out. HAARP is basically the concept he kept secret at that time as he was worried mankind wd destroy itself through the immense power resonance can create and focus with astoundingly scary results. So what has changed? Men shd still not be messing around with stuff as powerful as HAARP. No man is God. The End.

  • hi ive been hearing people harp on about this HAARP for a while now ive seen pics and the theories behind it, i wasn't impressed, could you maybe provide me with some links to the best evidence you have encountered thus far, or i would be happy to just discuss it in messages. what is the purpose in speculating about weapons more powerful than nuclear warheads when we already know we have many times the number of nukes required to kill every human on the planet.

  • that actually could happen, maybe

  • So that's how they make crop circles so quickly. J/K

  • Cymatics as viewed in this clip is also a major underlying reason for e.g. Buddhist chants being chanted the way they are. It doesn't take 'one giant leap' of contemplative power to realize how equally empowering/rebuilding and destructive sound is to our physical as well as mental well being. Healing with sound is nothing new, it's just new that science has caught on to this. String theory even simplifies us and EVERYTHING else to being just .... vibrations. Cymatics.

  • very well said. i was wondering about the string theory affiliation with cymatics throughout this whole video. thanks.

  • There are about as many atoms in a person as there are people-weights in the sun. There as many atoms in a breath of oxygen as there are breaths of air in our atmosphere.

    Atoms themsleves are about 99.999% empty space, made up of tiny electrons and quarks. It is these that are meant to be the strings of string theory.

    And you think the massive, coarse vibrations of sound, on a scale even we can see, are related to the vibrations of string theory? It is an utterly different scale.

  • freeserb: In fact, aren't they looking for the "God particle?"

    The "God Particle" is a misnomer. The term was coined by a popular science writer Leon Lederman and most physists do not use it. The Higgs Boson, which Lederman refers to is predicted by the Standard Model, but has yet to be discovered. It has nothing to do with the general conception of a god.

  • 4:16, at the center-left gif you can clearly see the creation of zombies.

  • So how about using cymatics for molecular assembly?

  • sounds are just one slice of a big pie..

  • Everything is one. That is why your cymatic designs look like things in nature. The universe is one big cymatic. you and I are just vibrations.

  • Sorry if I offended*

    grammar fail on last notice. :)

    I wonder how a bark from a dog would look like.

  • Me watching anime in my spare time has nothing to do with this subject. I just said that god + sience doesn't really go well And there will always be some exceptions but the statement still stands.

    And about the crop circle's made by "aliens" well I personally just don't think god+Alien works well together IMO.

    Sorry I you felt offended but you don't have to go in the attack?

  • any application for deaf people???

  • Those people working on "dolphin language" are actually crackpots, who seriously wonder if dolphins are in contact with extraterrestrial live and such nonsense. Don't take them seriously.

    Dolphins are the #1 animal in esotericism; many people have very strange believes about them. They confuse the animal with something it simply is not.

    In reality, dolphins don't have a language and mostly communicate though forms and motions and by the interactions of different forms and motions in a group.

  • 'dolphins don't have a language'

    That really depends on how one defines 'language'. If you mean, do they communicate in detailed and varied sentences that have almost infinite meaning, like humans... then you're right, they don't have a language.

    But if you mean they use sound to communicate a message to other dolphins, that is then recieved and understood by other dolphins... then yes, they do have a language. Then again, so does my dog, to a very limited capacity.

  • Nearly all life forms have evolved a communication system, even bacteria and cells. By one definition, any communication system can be called a 'language', as e.g. body language. But when we are asking about language in dolphins, we are interested in a human-like language.

    Dolphins don't use sound to communicate a message to other dolphins, for that would require language. Sound isn't even all that important in dolphin communication. On many occasions, dolphins barely make a sound at all.

  • Okay... then why do dolphins make particular noise patterns in relation to particular situations?

    Is this just some quirk of evolution, where all animals in the species see fit to produce sound for no particular reason?

    Or does the sound have some sort of meaning?

    If it doesn't have meaning... then why do they do it?

  • They use more sounds when the water is not clear enough to see other individuals of their group very well. In clear waters however, the use of sound is reduced. It has to do with sight and sometimes they measure the distance between themselves and other individuals by the time it takes a signal to return. Also, they use a certain type of clicks for echolocation and other types of clicks to signal pleasure or anger. But there is no pattern that corresponds to a word, so that it can be translated.

  • '...types of clicks to signal pleasure or anger'

    So, they're using sound to communicate something, and that's not a language?

    I imagine if they're communicating with sound, that it would be extremely unlikely that communication would be structured in words and sentences, just like we speak. But just because they are communicating with sound, even in a structure different to ours, doesn't mean that isn't a language.

  • I think what he is saying is that dolphin's type of language deals with variance in frequency and pitch instead of form and context like human communication. Since our languages are based on different principles the only way for us to understand dolphin language is through a different medium such as visually.

  • Agreed... I was responding to Ilavenya's original comment that the claim taht dolphins have language is a myth

  • No, I'm saying that dolphins don't have a human-like language. There are no sentences hidden in their frequency modulation.

  • No, it's not, because we were talking about a spoken language as it is formally defined in linguistics. I'm not using language when I smile or clench my fist, and neither are dolphins. There are no words and there is no grammar in dolphin communication.

  • Perhaps, but it opens the door to a degree of communication much in the same way that orangatangs have been successfully trained in sign language.

  • Dolphins have been trained in sign language too. And they understand nuances of word order, syntax, and context.

    watch?v=ZwJaUFHs-C4

    They have communication abilities sufficient enough to be able to communicate previously learned abstract behaviors to eachother. I suppose body language could be part of this. Which is not to diminish it's label as a "language".

    It seems like language to me.

  • Dolphins are way better in understanding sign language than even chimpanzees, but studies have shown that neither they nor any other animal except humans can fully understand a spoken language. Dolphins simply don't need language, their natural communication system is sufficient.

  • In the beginning there was sound!

  • I think we'll soon start talking about what that sound was..."The original sound" otherwise known as the word of God, the sound of creation which God called Adam from the ground.

    I'm not religious, but many people know about this story and I simply see an attachment.

  • Sorry but science doesn't budd well with god. And neither do aliens (who are suppose to create the crop circles)

  • All is SOUND

  • ur mom is sound

  • Congratulations - you just revealed to everyone your stupidity.

    You were fucked by your mother and now you project that fuckedupness onto others just to feel good about yourself - amazing!

    Without that which you THNINK you know, you are nothing - consider that.

    yet, yes, my mom is sound - but you are not sounding yourself as who you are at all - just being a program of and as deception.

    If you actually knew anything about REALITY you wouldnt be acting is such a way.

    wake up!

    Fuck face

  • lol

    u mad?

  • "Yes" - acording to this system of deception, self-honesty is seen as madness --- as seen in your question.

  • lol

    u angry?

  • Ok

    If you believe you have choice in not seeing - you will be in for a surprise.

  • Jam'nsuk, Mate you talk a lot of superficial nonsense. You are just another know-it-all who gets off on being morally 'superior' to other lesser beings. You sure are the ubermensch aren't you. What a joke you are.

  • Again

    Projecting.

    Your lack of common sense and will to actually understand my words will back fire in a way that you can't even imagine.

    enjoy

  • can shapes be made into sound as well?? I would be curious if crop circles  could be made audible??

  • Free2fredy,

    Maybe not to be made audible but to give clues to frequency. ;)

  • Crop circles mostly follow the "rules" of Sacred Geometry. Music follows the "rules" of Sacred Geometry - so i would imagine that, yes each crop circle could be represented by a particular piece of music - interesting project for someone methinks.

  • Circle's also appear in ice. Crop circles are not the only thing with circles. I think you may be on to something!

  • Interesting stuff.

  • TED talks always have the best comments. I think that this was cool, but we will have to see what can really be done with it. Looking at the noises a dolphin makes doesnt seem useful to me, but I hope something big can come of this.

  • Its useful in determining just how complex the "language" they use are. It would open up huge windows for animal bahavior studies if we could decode their auditory communications.

  • This talk was fine as long as he spoke as an artist or appreciator of art.

    But when encroached on science, the talk degenerated into nonsense.

  • All too frequent this the artists on TED.

  • What did he say that was inaccurate?

    It seemed he was mostly talking about how high quality visualisations of data help us gain insights.

  • This is a wondrous field of study. Amazing. As a musician this is mind-boggling. As a healing advocate, this seems to have monumental applications. Really cool.

  • yer im looking for a hobby other than language learning this is interesting, if cymatics is sound represented in visual form, maby all thing are also sound represented in visual form.

  • This is so cool, but why is this talk so short!! I want more explaination on how they made these devices and all how it all technically works...

  • me too

  • I love music and sound as well as visual arts, this is really cool and interesting!

  • Given the fact that order is an inner property of the matter, as shown in this and many more experiments, you don't need a creator any more. Neither the surnames creation/creature to refer sensible objects.

    Please shut up.

    Regards.

  • We could use cymatics to fix broken bones, they will heal more naturally in place.

  • Good call.

    Ultrasound is commonly used in psysiotherapy to aide in healing of such things. I recall it being used heavily while recovering from a kneecap dislocation.

  • how exacly do you belive this will work? no offense intended, im genuinely interested

  • Well if the calcium and other atoms that make bone "matter" are vibrating at a certain frequency, then we could play the frequency of bone according to it atomic vibration. Therefore creating a shape where Calcium and other atoms that make up bone will just fit in.

    We just need to provide the body with what it needs and it can be healed quicker.

  • @joelito101 bullshit.

  • @TheUnityGrope Please elaborate your answer. I'm curious to know how your mind works.

  • @joelito101

    "We just need to provide the body with what it needs and it can be healed quicker."

    an obvious statement. but how does it fit into winamp visualisations? what does this have to do with healing?

    i'm hearing lots of claims to "science", but when i see the people involved, and the speculative nonsense out of their mouths, i have to wonder if these people are at best, a bunch of pothead/cokehead dreamers with a very basic understanding of any subject.

  • @TheUnityGrope Our universe is a fractal one. All around you things grow using a set of rules for their growth, including our bodies, we cannot control that. What we can do is imitate what it does.

    Sound and our control of it can help us imitate how the body heals. When broken bones grow back in place, we can apply certain frequencies that will help it heal optimally.

    Applying the frequency of a healthy organ on a sick one will help it imitate the healthy one and start healing itself.

  • @joelito101

    "Our universe is a fractal one. All around you things grow using a set of rules for their growth, including our bodies".

    OK. Which rules relate what you are saying about fractal geometry to what you are saying about frequency?

    " When broken bones grow back in place, we can apply certain frequencies that will help it heal optimally".

    OK, what is your reference for this claim? Or is it just arty speculation?

  • @TheUnityGrope Just look around you. Learn from what happens without our control, and understand how to work with the way it already works.

    Everything is sound, always in vibration. Just look at the atom, each frequency of energy in the atom gives us the different versions of "matter" that we know.

    Our control of Sound seems to make sense to find the vibrations that we can use to heal.

  • @joelito101 .

    you're typing, but not actually saying anything.

    Everything is NOT sound. it's true, that everything is in vibration, but you can't call that vibration "sound". you could equally call it "colour", if you are talking in terms of photons (which you should be, because "sound" doesn't exist in space-photon=EM force carrier particle). sound is fun, but it fails at a fundamental level, i.e sound is perceived in the brain, and only exists in the brain (or on instrumentation).

  • @TheUnityGrope Yes, our perception of it we call "sound". But everything is always vibrating, so if we treat matter as vibration rather than a solid, we can go further in our understaing of this reality. Therefore I believe we can use "sound" as a healing tool. I will be doing some experiments and posting them on Youtube so that others can follow along. I believe we can use it to help plants grow better and faster. as well as for growing crystal structures.

  • @joelito101

    " if we treat matter as vibration rather than a solid, we can go further in our understaing of this reality"

    We DO treat matter as a vibration. AND as a solid. The 2 arent mutually exclusive, and this is not a new observation.

    "Therefore I believe we can use "sound" as a healing tool." OK, when you PROVE it, then we can all share that belief, but until then it is baseless and wild speculation.

  • @TheUnityGrope There are plenty of people that proved that applying the right frequency of energy to "matter" will make it change in ways we did not expect. like liquefying metal without heating it up. Some have even created calcium and limestone pillars using sound. It is only a skip away in applying to the human body. I am preparing for some tests, so I will post results.

  • @joelito101 .

    there is a world of difference between forming a pillar out of calcium and healing a human body.

    i look forward to seeing your "results".

  • @joelito101

    and sorry, but your final statement "Our control of Sound seems to make sense to find the vibrations that we can use to heal" is a massive assumption, based on what "seems" to make sense. proof matters, nothing else.

  • @joelito101

    Because, to be honest, I understand ALL of the terms you have just used there, i just don't understand how you have mashed them altogether in one sentence.

    You have gone from fractal geometry to healed bones in the space of 2 paragraphs. How does THAT work?

  • yep, looks like exploding hypernova

  • man, i want to know what the music is from the nokia ad at the end!

  • '...Gravity waves' Lolz.

  • Dipolar fields and the curvature of space time are two different things, perhaps due to my limited knowledge of dipolar fields there is a connection I didn't realize, and if so, I digress.

    I just didn't see such a connection when I wrote my comment, and thought you had an idea of gravity as a sort of particle wave.

    I do agree with your sentiment that this research should be expanded upon, there is a ton of potential with the future of this.

  • I'm not a physicist but... sound, EM, and gravity are all "forces" invisible to the naked eye.

    EM and Gravity are both speed of light forces, so we could only see them "after the fact" (sound we could see approach), but we could learn a lot through an accurate form of visualizing them.

    Yes you were quick to assume, it's OK

  • You didn't say "forces", you said "waves" big difference.

    I don't know what you mean by saying EM and gravity can only be observed after the fact.... that is plainly inaccurate. I mean... light is an electromagnetic wave itself, we see light as it interacts with us... not "after the fact".

  • Beside, you'll never be able to thoroughly analyze gravity and light through sound visualizations. That would be like trying to analyze space flight by riding around on a tricycle, they are different forces that interact differently under different circumstances... not to mention light is a particle while sound is just vibration moving through matter, I won't even go into gravity....

  • no we see it after the fact, just as we hear a noise after the energy that created it, sometimes minutes later (after the fact).

    The speed of light within the distance of a room, as it reflects off the wall to your eye, is after the fact as it has passed from it's source to where it impacts your retina.

    And waves is just my way of expressing it... like a liquid or fluid force.

  • Kay, I'm going to have to stop the conversation here, the stupid is starting to burn.

  • Sound is not a force, its a kinetic energy. If you're not a physicist you should just shut the fuck up, you make your self look like an idiot.

  • by definition, energy is a force.

    If you do not understand the English language, maybe you should take your own advice.

  • Comment removed

  • OK I've been patient enough.

    Convert gravity to energy? It's done all the time you twit! Every time they sling a sat to a new trajectory at higher speeds by using the gravity of another object (like a moon).

    They are all forms of energy and as a result are "forces"

    You owe me some money for educating you.

  • Comment removed

  • You can by a variant of the same method used to sling objects into space.

    Would it be feasible? that's a design question, but yes it can be done.

    You have a severe lack of imagination. Probably a result of sniffing too much glue.

  • If you ever see someone converting gravity into energy, show me ASAP, because you're witnessing a miracle.

  • NASA does it all the time

  • Every falling-water based hydroelectric station?

  • Comment removed

  • Comment removed

  • LOL good one, and another one that was so obvious I completely ignored it. "The Sun"

    Gravity based fusion.

  • Atoyota, the fact that your comments have been down-voted - is disconcerting, considering that everything you have said is not only quite accurate, but actually the basis of the 1993 Nobel Prize in physics - which was awarded to Russell A. Hulse and Joseph H. Taylor, Jr as recognition of their work studying GRAVITATIONAL WAVES.

    Everyone else:

    Just

    Fucking

    Google

    It

    "Gravitational Waves"

    There is even a nice wiki article

  • thankyou... i was not aware of the work, i've never studied the subject, but I do know it is a force or energy and as that can be used in forms of conversion.

    That understanding it visually could be quite important.

  • the relationship of gravity to energy has always been confusing to me but i have to imagine that when using the slingshot effect on a satellite it cant be gaining energy from the gravetational field its self that makes no sense, if that was true than the total energy in the universe would be constantly escalating just because of the presence of matter, the energy has to come from the planets rotation around its own axes or that of the sun.

  • I agree it is confusing... sort of an origami affect possibly (if I used that word correctly).

    Gravity is a weak force, but it can add energy or momentum to an object (and not just in the act of "falling") interacting in orbits.

  • your logic is sound if gravity is "the weak force" that makes it a force, and a force implies the use of energy, leads me to believe that scientists are incorrect in their assumption that gravity is an atomic force, or maybe it is and the energy is "leaking in" from a higher dimensional plain, but one thing is for certain, i dont understand what im talking about nearly enough to be running my mouth =)

    fuck it im going to just convert to christianity, christians dont believe in gravity

  • actually I'm very much christian and believe in gravity and "evolution"

    In fact evolution is critical from my religious perspective.

    From evolution and "selection" comes order. Both in organics and material things (mass or objects) even in mathematics.

    The 'big picture' is amazing

  • do you believe in bible? did you read the bible? What evidence do you have for your god?

  • I've developed my own rational for a belief in an incomprehensible abstract.

    If you ask for proof? it doesn't work that way... but knowing (or believing as that is relative) it makes sense, perfect sense in fact.

    But if you want a debate? don't bother.

    If you want to understand or are curious, I may oblige..

  • you know what you call people that are not willing to debate and wont change their mind no matter what: Closed minded. I do want to understand thats why i debate! If you only willing to keep shouting why earth is flat or why earth is center of the universe why should anybody listen to you if you arent going to debate and listen to the arguments from the other side. I know you are happy with your believes but thats not the point if they are true you should be able to debate them!

  • This is really not the forum or format where a debate on belief systems can take place reasonably. I've had them before and am in no mood to now.

    Close minded? just because I realize the possiblity of a futile debate and am not willing to waste my time? If that pleases you, you are welcome to feel that way.

    I have a good idea of what you want, and if I felt it would help you I'd oblige. Experience warns me otherwise.

  • you arent closed minded if this is not always the case. However most people never listen to the arguments of the other side just spew their own arguments out not even considering the fact that they might be wrong. Or just never even care enough to discuss their position. In both of the cases they are closed minded. We all might not be in the mood sometimes thou and i respect that. Good luck to you sir. Hopefully you look into this important matter another day. Hope ur mood improves as well

  • I'll put it to you this way... I was a non believer or agnostic at best until I arrived at an inspired epiphany. As if all the pieces of an infinite puzzle suddenly fit.. Aspects of history, both physical and social all made sense. An indescribable realization, which makes it difficult to explain or debate because of it's scope.

    An "awakening"

    Debates can be good, can actually strengthen my understanding, but usually I do more explaining than debating. End up agreeing to disagree.

  • so have you achieved certainty? Because i trully believe such thing does not exist. And if you aren't certain then logical argument that ends with agreement to disagree means one man cannot see his fallacy or a paradox he is presenting and the other is not able to explain it to him. Or one is simply denying it because it is too painful for him to admit that he was wrong. Wouldnt you agree?

  • Certainty is not how I would describe it, it's a faith, like the wind ebbs and flows. I could describe it also as pouring water into a colander, the colander being my mind, it empties as quickly as it fills.

    Part of it is primal (an indigenous sense), and part is science as we reach more of an understanding and see order in chaos. (evolution and selection)

    It's my lens to the world, it helps me see and understand.

    Now if I could apply it to gravity waves and sound?

    LOL

  • so its more like you observe the world and see the complexity in it and you feel that there is a God? that he must be an answer to all this because how our universe looks like?

  • I like it.

    At one time in my life i was privelaged enough to witness a pattern that explained reality. I never understood why it was that a pattern meant so much to me but now it makes more sense, perhaps i was witnessing the vibration of reality. The core truth behind existence, the word of God...

    Or maybe doing X, Acid and Nitrous all at the same time was a bad idea.

    Maybe both?

  • LOL

    They say Moses partook of a mild hallucinogenic in his day. I can see it as an aid to inspiration, much like the Indians and peyote.

    But... you don't really need that once you understand the difference between normal and inspired thoughts.

    Also the "filters" (positive/negative) to avoid the distractions that ruin the positive.

  • lol LSD is a hell of a drug.

    one time I was falling asleep and I had this vivid vision of "the elemental shape of the universe". it was called the Explagon. It's about 1x1 meters, but in almost infinite dimensions. and it was that the universe was both shaped in that shape, and that all its laws are derived from that.

    I dunno, I wasn't on drugs, but I woke up like WTF cause it didn't feel like a dream.

  • That may be the way it sounds to you, it's complicated. It is that and more...

    I describe our senses as revolving around a material and spiritual axis. Material in that covers day to day reality, spiritual is where imagination and inspiration enter. Almost a left/right brain concept but that the spiritual acts similar as an antenna to a dimension that is populated by the creator as well as 'others'. (distractions)

    No i don't "hear voices" but I am "inspired".

  • have you ever cared to study psychology. Do you know what placebo effect is. Do you think our minds are flawed in any way?