If we have the choice between technology and all its problems, combined with a chance of saving ourselves and a fair amount of the biosphere, or de-civilising and all its potential advantages, combined with ensuring that humanity and all other species will be wiped out in a couple of billion years, I'd prefer technology. Other stars are certainly an option with say a billion more years of innovation.
I'd say the primitivist point of view rests on the notion that there can't be another billion years of innovation without extinction. Or even it is possible to survive, the future wouldn't be worth living - the problems of technology are too dire.
One could make an argument that it's in our nature to survive by whatever means necessary. That said, I don't if it makes sense to gamble now in order to avoid extinction in the far future. I do think it's a very important question.
If things continue as they are, do you REALLY think at this rate that there will be any life left on the planet by the time that happens anyhow?
No disrespect intended, though. I like Zerzan, but I'm actually sort of what you might call a "moderate primitivist". I think a lot of technology is benign. Cut out what is harmful or superfluous, and focus on creating only what is beneficial.
thanks so much for posting these two videos, vaahti
you did a great job of rendering jz's words visually
funny--i've been listening to anarchy radio online for a while now, working my way backwards. i'm in september now. oct 2 was a great show--i might turn it into something at some point
it really helps to do these kind of videos because most folks don't read and won't listen to an hour-long talk (sad but true)
"I have only one question with regards to anarcho-primitivism/green anarchy:
What happens when we get to the sun's red giant phase?"
I don't know.
What happens when the universe re-collapses?
You're not going to be able to exist forever, and that shouldn't be the goal. We can exist in the time that we have in a much better way, though.
Maybe there is a way to have high tech, but we aren't going to find it in our current paradigm. The best solution is still to start from scratch.
withindarkness 1 year ago
(I can't find your comment to reply to, sorry)
If we have the choice between technology and all its problems, combined with a chance of saving ourselves and a fair amount of the biosphere, or de-civilising and all its potential advantages, combined with ensuring that humanity and all other species will be wiped out in a couple of billion years, I'd prefer technology. Other stars are certainly an option with say a billion more years of innovation.
fluorogoat 2 years ago
I'd say the primitivist point of view rests on the notion that there can't be another billion years of innovation without extinction. Or even it is possible to survive, the future wouldn't be worth living - the problems of technology are too dire.
One could make an argument that it's in our nature to survive by whatever means necessary. That said, I don't if it makes sense to gamble now in order to avoid extinction in the far future. I do think it's a very important question.
vaahti 2 years ago
I have only one question with regards to anarcho-primitivism/green anarchy:
What happens when we get to the sun's red giant phase?
fluorogoat 2 years ago
@fluorogoat And, I ask my own question:
If things continue as they are, do you REALLY think at this rate that there will be any life left on the planet by the time that happens anyhow?
No disrespect intended, though. I like Zerzan, but I'm actually sort of what you might call a "moderate primitivist". I think a lot of technology is benign. Cut out what is harmful or superfluous, and focus on creating only what is beneficial.
HowlinJay 1 year ago
thanks so much for posting these two videos, vaahti
you did a great job of rendering jz's words visually
funny--i've been listening to anarchy radio online for a while now, working my way backwards. i'm in september now. oct 2 was a great show--i might turn it into something at some point
it really helps to do these kind of videos because most folks don't read and won't listen to an hour-long talk (sad but true)
i can't wait to read 'twilight of the machines'
keep up the good work, vaahti
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Thanks.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
thanks for your continued presence here and bringing us thought provoking material from zerzan!
bbbleaver 3 years ago
Zerzan rules.
philos4r 3 years ago
I suppose he does rule, yes, despite the obvious oxymoron.
vaahti 3 years ago
lmao... ziiing
fsoldaten 3 years ago