Dr. Airsoft, Practical Testing: Pro Arms wire mesh face mask

[18yrsandolder]

so what type of mask would you recommend if all these masks are considered unsafe?

[SoGx3]

well im getting to 34 buck bone crusher from air soft megastore and it is stell wire you think the bbs will still go through

[EpikGameTime]

These tests aren't accurate.... Shooting them at point blank. Try at farther distances.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@EpikGameTime This test does not replicate normal conditions, nor was it intended to. It is intended to reproduce the worst accident imaginable on a US field with a sniper limit over 500 fps when an unsuspecting player comes around the corner of a building right when someone against the building wall is firing in the distance. It has happened more than once in California.

[EpikGameTime]

@auburnmedicalgroup ok.... does this work with paintball... ill make mods

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@EpikGameTime I would not expect it to do as well as this. Paintballs have about 10 times the mass of airsoft BB's.

[Arostyle380]

@EpikGameTime They are accurate. Your always get an idiot who shoots someone at point blank. You want to minimise the risk down to 0. Its unlikely your get shot that close up, but it DOES happen.

[sermax6]

yeah. it can break. thats why on the well know sites like airsoftgi and evike actually say "wear saflty glasses under these incase fragments occur"

[Darkfire889]

This is why i didn't get mesh. evan at 300fps bbs can break.

[evnaddict]

Hey, that's my gun!

[chubbs636]

ive been playing for about a year, only used mesh (anything else just fogs up for me and i dont have $100 to drop on goggles) and never had any problems, but of course ive never taken 500 fps at point bland range. my old mesh goggles have some paint chipped off from close range, but i never noticed any getting in my eye.

but my new matrix full face mesh could definitely block 500 fps point blank.

500 fps would also pop into the skin at close range, usually people over 500 know how to be safe

[Kiribayashi]

520?! WTF most places only allow 300-400FPS at the most

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@Kiribayashi The test is not intended to apply only to most places. It is intended to be a test that covers even accidental discharges at fields which allow snipers to fire over 500 fps.

[kkdmdr]

@Kiribayashi i agree again lol!!!!!!!!

[Airgun1911]

Because someone is gonna shoot you point blank with a 500 FPS gun I have this mask and it withstands the 350 FPS limit perfectly. But if my site had a limit of 500 FPS I wouldn't wear it

[xalax001]

Well to be honest I wouldn't trust any goggles with any sort of mesh AT ALL, because I love my eyes and dont wont to lose them :P lol but anyways great video Dr. Airsoft

[mchgbh]

We banned wire-googles.

[JAEProductions1]

Oh no I'm getting a plastic face mask now not a mesh one I don't want to go blind.

[yowazup213]

i would also use shooting glasses for just in case

[majo2626]

thats why im using mine goggles only in OSB...

[jdizzy01]

i dont see why everyone is hating, obviously it is meant to be in the absolute worse conditions, but thats the point of torture tests, to see how something holds up under the worse conditions, thats why HK dumped their 416s in water and mud then fired them, to see if they held up in the absolute worst conditions

[Nitoryuu]

I have a small pair of mesh goggles, and I took a shot to the eye (close to the frame of the goggle) in a cqb game before. I consider myself lucky lol.

[ScottishRugby23]

i have a gas mask :0

[CaptainSeamus]

While I've never seen this brand of mesh mask, I have tested 2 other brands (one that looks very similar) with a 450+fps gun with no failure like you are showing.

THANK YOU though for pointing out the fragmentation issue... this is something that for some reason a lot of people who want to use mesh seem to forget. The ONLY time I would ever even consider using a mesh mask is if I have secondary eye protection (read: glasses) underneath the mesh.

[VoLuMiO]

Try my mask.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@AwesomeSauce64

You may want to check out guns like the Ares-made G36, the Magpul PTS Masada ACR, the ICS FN-C, and the G&G G2010. They all have the ability do a quick-change of the spring or an adjustable spring guide to change the speed of the gun down without having to break open the gearbox. I have videos on my channel showing this feature on some of the above mentioned guns.

[misternnomo]

right so the limit is 400fps in the uk on snipers which arnt allowed to shoot point blank or anywhere near point blank and aegs are 350 fps limit so really mesh goggles are very good and when i someone gonna shoot someone that close with a .43g bb and a gun at 520fps!

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@misternnomo

This test does not replicate normal conditions, nor was it intended to. It is intended to reproduce the worst accident imaginable on a US field with a sniper limit over 500 fps when an unsuspecting player comes around the corner of a building right when someone against the building wall is firing in the distance. It has happened more than once in California.

[misternnomo]

@auburnmedicalgroup ahh yes well im not sure what the fps limits are in the US but i know that they are quite a bit higher than the UK limits so the goggles would have a hard time out there

[TheMunch97]

@misternnomo My site (in the UK) the sniper limit is 500fps so yes this test is very realistic.

[CaptCamping]

Nobody shoots an enemy this close, not even in cqb. In cqb theres a limit on fps.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@CaptCamping

You are correct. This is a violation of any field's minimum engagement distance, but it happens. Most documented eye injuries occured at short range (Kratz A - Am J Ophthalmol - 01-JAN-2010; 149(1): 37-44). One incident occured within 4 feet at a Fort Ord game. It is documented in NAM magazine, issue 11. These injuries should never happen. Using gear that can take a close hit is the way to prevent the most common serious eye injuries. A limit of 550 fps is found in many games.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

I understand your concern for the view of airsoft by those outside. That is why I wrote the article found on my website and published in the current issue of Take Aim magazine, to show how safe airsoft really is when you look at the medical literature. The conditions of the testing of this product were extreme, but similar shots have occured (see NAM Magazine issue 11 regarding the Fort Ord incident). Roundhouse Productions has limits of 500 fps. Most products have passed this test by me.

[Blacksunshine420]

Love it. use the cheapest masks on the market with a ridiculously overpowered gun at an unrealistic close range.. You haven't really shown anything and all you've done is hurt the Airsoft community by showing this. People who are not informed to the REALITY of how we play will think that this is the norm and that we are all in danger of losing our eyes. Thanks. Hopefully this video isn't taken out of context by some media agency and used to assist the government to push for bans on airsoft.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

You are correct. This is a violation of any fields minimum engagement distance, but it happens. Roundhouse Productions allows sniper rifles to fire 500 fps. This test was done with 0.43 gm bb''s after using the standard .20 gm bb's for the chronograph. I like that you mention 350 fps as the limit for indoor CQB. All tight quarters or indoor CQB facilities should have a limit of 350 fps, and likewise, guns intended for CQB should not fire faster than 350 fps or be adjustable to fire under.

[LaFlairdom]

Because I'm going to get shot by a 520 fps gun at less than a foot away. Most fields, such as mine, don't allow 400+ fps and there are minimum engagement distances. Only time you're gonna engage a target like that is on a cqb field which you usualy can't pass 350 fps. Also, On the note of the 520 fps gun, I don't see how ANYBODY would use .2g bbs if they're shooting 500+ fps. Anybody pullin that kind of fps would use at least .28g bbs. It'd be stupid not to.

[socomTHOR]

wish that test was at a practical fps. there arent any fields around me that allow over 400fps with a .2 unless its a sniper platform and then there is a engagement distance rule. i would really like to see this test repeated at 350fps.

[129shift]

Ok thanks I might get a Extreme Rage X-Ray Face Mask Yea I'm a beginner

[129shift]

Will 350 fps go through this

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@129shift

We did not test at 350 fps. We often play in games which allow faster velocities.

[TheParanormal]

I'm thinking about using mesh goggles because I wear prescription eye-glasses, which though they wouldn't be able to stop an entire BB, they would probably be able to stop any fragments that pass through without getting scratched. Though when I get them I'll be sure to test them out to make sure they're strong enough, before wearing them while playing.

[chaklong]

lol 500+ fps

thats pretty dangerous already lol

[xobreannabananax]

I am currently working on a version of mesh mask that will protect not only your eyes but your teeth, lower jawline and your ears as well. It is a variation of a 12KG fencing helm. It is comprised of welded interwoven heavy duty steel wire. This material is not like the cheap thin mesh shown in this video. Since this was originally made to deflect incoming sword strikes the wire surface of the wire is well rounded and smooth, this will avoid the cheese grader effect shown here, Video to come.

[BHartranft123]

WOW!!

[BHartranft123]

WOW!!!!!!

[fluffymole0913]

I wear safety goggles under a mesh mask usually, because neither fogs up. However some airsoft fields dont allow mesh guards so i do also own a transparent set of goggles which i dont neef the glasses for

[acexprt]

i understand most people commenting are saying that a person will never be in a situation where they will be shot at such close range... but accidents do happen.. u might not be in a game.. might be sitting with your pals eating lunch and someones gun can fall and fire off... maybe even at a range of 10 feet... anything can happen at anytime.. this is why most airsoft fields DO NOT allow mesh goggles. i would love to wear mesh goggles but i guess we will have to wait for a better alternative

[liwedward]

Did the lower part of the mask manage to stop the BBs?

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@liwedward

We did not test the lower face portion of the Pro Arms mask.

[liwedward]

@auburnmedicalgroup You took about two shots at the lower part of the mask in the video. Did the BBs go through?

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@liwedward

None of the masks tested that day prevented bb's from passing through to the lower face. The bb's whent through.

[sumosword]

I agree that you need to test the extremes of what this mask can handle. Also that it should be near point blank for a worst case scenario.

However you fail to test the range of this products protection. Start with A LOWER FPS and increase in increments until failure. At the very least it would let those that use the mask at say 328 (+/-10%) know if it was safe or not for their purpose. 500+ fps if way above the limits of many sites.

I

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@sumosword

Please see my other reviews to see equipment that passes my rigorous testing.

[sumosword]

@auburnmedicalgroup Oh I'm not detracting from your reviews. Just pointing out that destructive testing past the point of intended purpose is pointless and puts a product in a situation for which it was never intended.

You don't test the variables. Only the most extreme and rare of circumstances.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@sumosword

There are people playing with guns shooting near the velocities tested. I only intend to test for the most extreme of conditions. It comes from my medical background where the only products that remain in use are ones that carry the least liability possible. People are free to make their own decisions on what gear to use, but I feel an obligation to protect the public from even the smallest risk of serious injury.

I could test at other velocities, but there would be few views.

[sumosword]

@auburnmedicalgroup You have created a scenario that doesn't exist for the vast majority of players. Your test is too limited to draw a conclusion to the extent you have. Yes it is unsafe in your particular configuration but that doesn't represent a range of test data.

If you feel so obliged to protect why dont you make test under normal circumstances to enlighten those that may be sitting on the fence thinking that these would be safe at lower fps/weight configuration.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@sumosword

No. The standard will be purposefully high when it comes to safety. Other people are welcome to test at other levels, but my testing will continue to identify products which can protect beyond the stress a product is intended to sustain.

[sumosword]

@auburnmedicalgroup Beyond the stress to what point? You have no data on what the intended fps limit of this mask was or what it can sustain.

Your use of a rifle firing that weight at that fps creates a fictitious circumstance that will never happen on the majority of sites.

You seem to be missing the point that its not only this product that suffers from your limited testing. All mesh products are suffering off the back of such limited data resulting in unfounded claims of fragmentation .

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@sumosword

The muzzle velocity is not much beyond the 500 and sometimes 550 fps limit found on some US fields. Most documented eye injuries occured at short range (Kratz A - Am J Ophthalmol - 01-JAN-2010; 149(1): 37-44). One incident occured within 4 feet at a Fort Ord game. It is documented in NAM magazine, issue 11. These injuries should never happen. Using gear that can take a close hit is the way to prevent the most common serious eye injuries.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@sumosword

You say that this "will never happen on the majority of sites." My testing is for the equipment that can be used on all sites, therefore it has to be the most rigorous. You acuse my testing of show mesh masks to be bad, yet I have found several lower face mesh masks to be adequate for lower face protection. I actually use a mesh mask for lower face protection myself.

[patriots4life95]

i use plastic

[angelson726]

ok now i know..maybe just used mask that are compatible to resist the power..higher fps of the guns means tougher mask to prevent injuries..make sense..

[angelson726]

why test it close range? not all airsoft battle are close range..and its common sense not to shoot that close to the face..

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@angelson726

Most documented eye injuries occured at short range (Kratz A - Am J Ophthalmol - 01-JAN-2010; 149(1): 37-44). One incident occured within 4 feet at a Fort Ord game. It is documented in NAM magazine, issue 11. These injuries should never happen. Using gear that can take a close hit is the way to prevent the most common serious eye injuries. Subscribe to my channel to see better gear tested.

[abcdfghijlnopqrst]

could you possibly test a mask that isnt crap?

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@abcdfghijlnopqrst

Subscribe to my channel: auburnmedicalgroup

[ColGuidotti]

you also have to consider not all fields allow 520 fps guns....

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@ColGuidotti

That's correct. Many fields have safer limits, thankfully. We test to find the safest products so players can have confidence in any situation when the use the truley safe masks and goggles.

[billyisawsome100]

@ColGuidotti alot of fields allow 500fps bolt actions

[ColGuidotti]

@billyisawsome100 true, but you have to consider the engagement range, this was tested at point blank range...from a distance it could be different.

[TheNews1990]

what about if i put a set of goggles on them because im using one for paintball soon

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@TheNews1990

What goggles can fit under the mask?

[TheNews1990]

@auburnmedicalgroup the version i am buying looks like the goggles are removeable there just attached with studs So i was thinking of putting them on top

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@TheNews1990

You might consider spending $10 on the Hakkotsu Iron Face mask. You could use it with a pair of goggles and get better protection.

[Jay2Sick]

@auburnmedicalgroup i have that same mask..maybe not same brand but i just put the goggles over them..works fine like that

[Zieu]

I think this video is very unfair. Not only does the test use uncommonly heavy BBs (.46g was it?) compred to a normal airsofter, but it fired them at speeds far in excess of any field regulation that I am aware of.

Perhaps this test may hold up if you stated that you were testing the effects of a airsoft sniper setup on a mask, but otherwise I think the tests are unfairly weighted against this mask. A test at more normal speeds with more a common BB weight would be more useful.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@Zieu

You are correct to notice that the conditions are extreme. A mask or goggle has to be able to withstand exposure to the worst imaginable accident for me to have confidence in its use as a safety device.

There are fields near me which allow 550 fps for a sniper. There was an accident a few years ago at Fort Ord where one player came around a corner of a building right as another player was firing very close to him. Although extreme, the conditions of this test are not impossible.

[Zieu]

@auburnmedicalgroup

I'm not saying the conditions are impossible. I simply said that if you are going to test it under extreme conditions and extenuating circumstances (such as sniper-type velocities + BB weight at point blank range), at least make that clear to the audience, otherwise you're taking that extreme and assuming that it applies to every range/velocity/BB weight. I'll bet that this mask can withstand a normal 350fps .25 BB just fine, but I suppose that wouldn't be as entertaining

[DiebeticSquirrel]

@Zieu i agree that its unfair but in the begining he says "They will be shot at airsoft extreem

[Zieu]

@DiebeticSquirrel

Airsoft Extreme is a store. Also, it certainly gives numbers for what the parameters are, but never is it made plain that those are not typical skirmish situations, nor even uncommon situations. Using such an example is beyond extreme, and I'm sure that virtually every other mask will falter under such ridiculous circumstances. Thus, characterizing this mask as unsafe is unfair and the result of a biased experiment. That's all.

[Shufflingboyify]

that's why i love kwa

[yodabutter]

0:14 hes not wearing goggles! shoot his eye!

[kevinlacrosse57]

Do you have any idea how the acm zero wire goggles are cause i was thinking of getting them thanks

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@kevinlacrosse57

I'm sorry. I have not been provided with a sample of the acm zero wire goggles to test. I do not recommend any wire mesh goggles for airsoft because they decrease vision and allow bb fragments to pass through to the eyes.

[TheRapturedBand]

i airsoft with people that have like 380-400 fps guns. would it go through?

[auburnmedicalgroup]

@TheRapturedBand

I haven't tested at that speed, but it would be safe to use a true barrier instead of a wire mesh.

[wolfy46552]

@kevinlacrosse57 dude there fine i shot mine with a 600 fps sniper from 20ft away didnt go through

[MrBailiffMan]

This "test" is disingenuous at best. This is by no means a "practical" test. 520fps at about a foot distance? You shoot me like that and we will have issues.

If you are saying that this is a test of "well someone might have an accident before a game in the set up area" then yes it could possibly happen, but most people wont have their goggles on at all anyways

You should call it "worst case testing" and be honest about it. Either that or actually do practical tests with accurate parameters

[auburnmedicalgroup]

You are correct that no mask should have to endure this kind of punishment if people always follow the rules and practice muzzle control without fail. The truth is that accidents happen. Almost every airsoft eye injury documented in the medical literature happened at close range.

[Pzgraf]

Mesh masks are banned from use by the Norwegian Airsoft Association for just this reason.

A friend of mine tested mesh masks (I don't remember the brand) at skirmishable velocities (350fps w .2g) and even though the mesh remained intact, fragments did slip through and embedded themselves in the paper.

This happened more often with bio BB's than with regular plastic BB's.

[CalcityAirsoft]

This is why i will only use my Oakley's

[zed141]

You should take a look at "Bitter End" goggles. They use frames from well known goggles and install stamped steel grating. I suppose the BBs could still fragment, but I have heard nothing but good things about BEs.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

Bitter End makes a good lower face mask which is adequate for lower face and dental protection, but fragmented bb's do pass through the holes. I do not recommend using stamped steel for eye protection.

[TACADD]

Yeah, any thoughts of using mesh just passed my mind now, thanks for the information.

[mrpugster]

Not sure what FPS they allow in the US 400fps but in the UK it's 350fps, how about a test at 350fps?

[auburnmedicalgroup]

I used the high velocity test because I wanted clearly show which products provide superior protection against the worst scenario imaginable. That would be a point-blank hit by a sniper at a field which has a 550 fps sniper limit. My next four products to be posted all passed the test at 550 fps. Look for them in the coming weeks.

[RichyYoung]

@auburnmedicalgroup you could actually make it even worse if you used proper sniper ammo, 0.43 weight for instance would hit with 4 times the current strength your shooting with 0.20s. If you wanted to simulate worst case.

[auburnmedicalgroup]

The video specifies that we did use 0.43 gm bb (13 seconds into video) after chronographing w/ the standard 0.20 gm bb. That does not increase the energy involved. Kinetic energy = 1/2 mass x the square of the velocity. The velocity decreases as the mass is increased so the kinetic energy remains constant.

[RichyYoung]

@auburnmedicalgroup so it did, ive got to disagree with the math though, Whether the guns got 0.20 ammo in it or 0.43 ammo its still producing the same amount of force.. Though i agree the 0.43 will chorno slower its still carrying more energy due to its mass. A 0.20 bb at 520 fps hits with 1.85 Foot lbs and a 0.43 bb using the same gun will hit 3.98 Foot lbs of energy. Next time your testing get someone to shoot you with 0.2s and then with 0.43s and then tell me they are the same

[auburnmedicalgroup]

The 0.43 bb from the gun was clocked at 373 fps. The chronometer can be seen in Dr. Airsoft, Practical Testing: Goggles and Masks.