i cant over how great it is that jazz muscians besides maybe some classical musicians from hundreds of years ago are the most talented musicians in a long while. infinitely more talented than any pop or modern rock "musicians" and there still sporting suits and ties not daring to even think about taking there shirt and trying to look as classy as possible compared the shit blink 182 produces where 15 minutes into a concert they find it neccesary to take their shirts off
10) And which makes them complain about Lateef's oboe skills
11) Jazz music can't be judged from a classical point of view and vice versa
12) Yusef Lateef is a great musician, though maybe not such a great oboist because he plays primarily tenor saxophone and flute.
13) To avoid confusion and unnecessary arguments with both sides reasoning identically, people on youtube should not reply to another person's latest comment before reading all of his or her previous comments.
@vummeli Good summary there. I agree with most of it. The original argument I was making, and people shooting me down for, were saying that Lateef was a terrible oboist, no matter how good he was as a musician.
There is just as much individualism in classical music as there is in jazz. For example, a North American oboist will sound completely different from a French oboist. The embouchure is completely different, and so are the reeds. Try listening to Eugene Izotov compared to Francois Leleux
@vummeli We are not narrow minded and refuse change. For example, the great Marcel Tabuteau completely changed oboe playing in North America. At the time North American orchestras tended to "import" wind players from France and brass from Germany. As expected, the sounds did not blend at all because the playing styles and concepts were completely different. He developed the "North American" sound to blend.
There's also the thing about the Philly Orchestra playing baroque in a romantic style.
I wish people would read each others' comments more thoroughly. Most people who have been "arguing" with me about this piece here have basically had pretty much the same opinions I have, just expressing them differently or with very small variations. Just as a reference, so people can stop bothering me, here are my opinions:
1) Yes, Lateef's oboe playing is far from excellent
2) However, it fits the tune quite perfectly
3) Classical music is more meticulous and precise than jazz
@vummeli I also do not think the oboe playing fits the tune perfectly, because oboe playing THAT BAD cannot fit anything except a high school band. If you want to hear proper attempts to use the oboe in jazz, try searching "jean luc fillon oboe" or "pat hill oboe jazz".
Nice to see we are agreeing on something here. It's funny though, how people are so critical of the instruments they play. This, I would say, applies more to institute educated musicians. It's the perfectionism I mentioned. One cannot enjoy "incorrect" use of an instrument no matter how it may sound. Which means only non-oboists will be able to judge Lateef's performance objectively. Someone who hasn't played the oboe might like that "horrible" tone. I know I do.
@vummeli The reason any oboist will think his tone is horrible, is because that is exactly how beginner high school oboists sound. I'm not exaggerating here, its the same type of tone. As an oboist, our first hurdle (more like a wall) is to get out of that crappy tone zone. The oboe is a weird instrument, in that on the tone spectrum, 99% of players will have a horrible dying animal, or sound like god's gift to the winds. There's very little in between.
I know it sounds like a beginners tone. Lateef was in a way a beginner on oboe. That was my point. As an oboist, you cannot accept the possibility that something that sounds like a beginner sounds good, maybe because the oboe is such a hard instrument and oboists have some sort of trauma related to this tone. I think it fits this piece. It's my opinion as a non-oboist. I don't care what an oboe is or is not "supposed to sound like", I just enjoy the sound.
@vummeli I also don't think I'm exactly an institute educated musician. I'm still in high school, and I attend a regular high school and not some arts school.
I never said anything about your being this or that. I don't even know you. When I said something about classical or educated musicians I was only generalizing, not talking about you or any other specific person in any way. I'm not trying to offend classical musicians. I like classical music. I just think it's entertaining when classical musicians say they're as open-minded as everybody else and yet seem to disdain people who don't sound like perfected classical musicians.
@vummeli Tone is a very personal thing. I hate the sound of european oboist (they hate us too). But I still acknowledge that they are great musicians.
In my opinion, classical music is just as open minded. There ARE certain rules that we follow, but there are also certain rules that jazz musicians follow too.
How can it be equally open minded if it reacts much stronger to much smaller divergence? Even the name "classical" suggests conservatism and institutionalism. The rules jazz musicians follow are very abstract and flexible. The only unquestionable rule in jazz is "if it sounds good it is good". In classical it's more like "if it follows these well-tried patterns it should probably sound good". Classical music is like science, striving for objectiveness, jazz is more subjective.
@vummeli In classical music, the goal is still to sound good. Classical music is actually a name given by the general public. What you said about classical music is true, but only for the classical era of classical music. How many rules do you think the Rite of Spring broke?
Don't you think the general public is onto something? You should realize that I'm generalizing. A very small part of classical music, even today, is like the Rite of Spring.
And regarding the theory thing: what need have we to know why something sounds good? That's unnecessary work. As I said, jazz musicians only need to know that something sounds cool and they're happy with that. Classical musicians have to analyze and recreate everything, which spoils all the fun.
@vummeli No, because the general public is very ignorant to most things.
You need to understand that music is completely mathematical. Trying to figure out why things sound good, so you can continue to make things sound good seems efficient to me. Even jazz musicians follow set rules in music theory. Even while improvising, each jazz musician follows his or her own set of rules subconsciously. That's why everyone sounds different.
Music is played for the general public. The customer is always right, even in this case.
To me music is not math, it's art. It's about creating, and expressing one's emotions in a completely abstract and irrational way. On a surface level, you can make anything mathematical. The deeper you delve into music, the more random it gets. Basically, it's just random sounds occurring at random time events. It's your choice if you want to simplify it enough to make it mathematical.
@vummeli No matter how far you get, music is completely mathematical. The deeper you get, the more mathematical it becomes. there are always reasons why we like things. We don't like things "just because". There can be no argument there. I don't understand why the general public calling classical music a genre makes the whole thing like the classical period.
The question, whether we like things for a reason or not is still philosophical, as I don't know that it should have been scientifically proved yet. Personally, I think we just either like things or not, and come up with reasons afterwards. "Just because" is, in my opinion, the best reason to like something.
Besides, there can be no objective theory that guaranties what sounds good, because music is a subjective, personal experience.
@vummeli Logically, our brains work with chemical algorithms, so there are reasons why we are stimulated in certain ways. Sound is objective, no doubt, because our brains all work in different ways. You only think that about music theory, because you have never studied it and you lack knowledge of it. I'm not saying I'm a theory expert, but I challenge you to find a single person that doesn't think a IV-V-I cadence feels complete, or one that thinks a locrian scale sounds complete.
The fact that our brains function chemically does not confirm that our reasons are rational.
I don't think you understand my point. Yes, sound is objective. Yes, most people, including me, find a IV-V-I complete, but they don't necessarily have to enjoy it just because of that (and one could argue that this feeling of completeness is is a cultural thing). I know some music theory. I just don't directly use it to create music, which I think nobody should.
@vummeli It doesn't have to be rational, but it proves that things don't "just happen".
Completeness is not a cultural thing. It is a universal thing. Music is universal, which is why it's such a powerful form of art. The fact that it is universal, proves that it is mathematical. No matter where you go, 1+1 is still 2, and an octave is still an octave.
Everyone applies music theory to create music. Otherwise we wouldn't have a scale. Even in this recording, a key is immediately established.
I'd say it's pretty impossible to trace back the reason why you like something and connect it with some chemical reaction. Biology and chemistry alone are not sufficient in explaining psychology. To us humans, the brain still works in pretty mysterious ways.
Do you think Indian classical music sounds complete? And actually 1+1=2 per definition, there's no logic behind it. Just try to prove it mathematically.
@vummeli Just because we can't understand it doesn't mean there is no reason. Psychology is our attempt at explaining the results of the algorithms.
Music doesn't have to sound "complete", I was using it as an example. Indian classical music is still completely mathematical. Their scale sounds funny to us, because we are used to hearing major and minor scales. However, their scales are based on the same harmonic series. They still establish a key immediately, but they use quarter tones.
@theothercanadian Excuse me......are you able to enjoy any music? I m honestly not trying to be sarcastic. I mean it. Your intellectualism gets in the way of pure enjoyment. You may criticize me for my naivete, but I might just be older and wiser than you, sir.
@gilbert20 I do enjoy music. Why else would I study it in university? I don't enjoy somebody playing my instrument poorly. Would you enjoy listening to a kid screeching away on a violin for the first time?
Anyone would prefer a quality performance. There is a reason why I'd rather go see the Toronto Symphony than say a high school band.
@gilbert20 I'll listen to "Catalin Rotaru Bass" at some point. It's youtube, and lot of "simpletons" shall we say, go here, telling me I'm narrow minded for hating the oboe playing in this video.
My firm belief is that they are fans of the artist or style, and therefore like it because their favourite artist is playing instead of listening to what's being played. That's why in the music world we do what's called "screened auditions" where you play anonymously behind a screen.
@theothercanadian Since you opened a wonderful door for me, please allow me to return the favor? Search "Catalin Rotaru Bass" and hold on to your socks.
@gilbert20 I'm listening to his recording of the Haydn Cello concerto. Although I prefer it better on the cello, as the slight edge in the cello's tone has a better capacity to carry melody. I know the piece rather well, I performed it a few months ago, except I played 2nd oboe. It is excellent; very musical and technically precise.
@theothercanadian Sorry, I have been away for a few days, and wanted to talk with you a bit. For beauty of tone, could you please listen to Rotaru's recently uploaded Chopin Nocturne? I feel it is quite rich, And for fireworks, the tarantellas cannot be beat! Honestly, I don't know how many bassists could even play one of those, let alone make it so enjoyable. For me, music really soars when the artist transcends the instrument--when I forget it is a bass, and just listen to the pure music.
@gilbert20 Sorry, I didn't finish. The incredible oboe sounds you introduced to me have the same quality. I know it is often difficult to "forget" I am listening to an oboe, since it is SO distinctive, but I try. BTW, the first chair oboe for the NY Phil used to spend 20 hrs/week shaving his reeds. Awesome! His knives were pretty amazing, too.
@gilbert20 20 hours a week isn't too much. I used to have to spend 5 hours a day making reeds, because they never worked. Now I'm down to about 2-3 hours of reed making every day, because I can make some pretty decent reeds, although not all of them are any good. Its a fact quoted by every competent oboist that almost all major oboe players have spent more time making reeds than practicing.
Just for making reeds? That sounds very , ah, committed. I paint, and I thought I was being exacting in occasionally taking as long as an hour to premix all the colors on my palette.
@gilbert20 Excellent recording. I think the bass actually suits the piece well. For the Haydn concerto, there is a reason Haydn wrote it for cello and not bass. Well, many actually, but the cello is much better than the bass for carrying a flashy melody like those in classical era concertos. It's like why the orchestra tunes to an oboe instead of say a flute. The sound of the oboe is very distinct and can be heard clearly over the orchestra.
@vummeli When we talk about our rules in music theory, please understand that its a theory developed in the last 100 years. Why? Baroque, Classical and early Romantic composers didn't have to learn theory. Music theory is us, looking back at music written hundreds of years ago, and trying to figure out why things sounded good and why things didn't.
The comments about the backsliding of musical talent is not true. Talent is out there, and now, just as with this music here, it's not found on the radio. Back then this wasn't found on the radio because of racism, and now talent isn't found on the radio because the radio stations are owned by two or three major corporations.
@BradLanute No, that'd be because people have worse taste in music than ever, and the corporations play what people want to hear. And this wasn't on the radio because jazz has always been a niche. Popular black artists at the time were starting rock n roll music, jazz was quickly becoming a thing of the past.
@Acct1941 To clarify my point: Since the radio has been monopolized by corporations they have eliminated the role of the DJ as a diffuser of new and innovate musical forms. Instead, we have static playlists, which may very well be because corporations have realized that's what people want to hear.
@Acct1941 If that is the case, I would posit that that is the way humans have always been, and DJs play an essential role for proliferating innovative forms of music and real talent. Hence I would say that there is talent out there but no means of diffusing it to the larger public. It takes hard work to seek it out, and people are pretty complacent.
@Acct1941 Just to clarify my point: A result of the monopolization of the airwaves is the diminished of the role of the DJ in diffusing new and innovative forms of music and talent. What we have now are static playlists. Perhaps these corporations have figured out that people are willing to listen to the same thing over and over again.
@Acct1941 If that is the case, I would posit that that is the way humans have always been, and emphasizes more the role that DJs play for proliferating innovative forms of music and real talent. People weren't turned off by DJs back in the day when they had more freedom. Hence I would say that there is talent out there but no means of diffusing it to the larger public. It takes hard work to seek it out, and people are pretty complacent.
@BradLanute Well... someone went to college. And actually I agree that disc jockeys have been eliminated, thus eliminating their discretion in breaking out a talented act. But more and more people will see that mass-produced music is'nt the way to go, restarting the cycle of popularizing new/unpopular music. But what's happening now is that there is far too big of a market for the aforementioned, leading to total obscurity and a divided listenership.
Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the core-style of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the style of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the core of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Lateef's Oboe playing is genius-the fool who was disgusted probably is mediocre in his playing and his life-Yuseef was ground breaking along w/Eric Dolphy in their use of non-traditional instruments in Jazz-influencing many other Oboe players in the genre (Karl Jenkins of Soft Machine for example),
@jahhorkle The difference is that Lateef is always tasteful, unlike Dolphy. How about Kiane Zawadi on Euphonium? Now there's a non-trraditional reed! This piece is perfection, every note, every player. Best work by Nat Adderly on record, too. He gets that pure, dark Miles intonation without sounding like he's mimicking Davis. How cool is the white guy (Joe Zawinul)? Cannonball and Miles both said that Zawinul, from Eastern Europe, had as much pure Soul as any Black Man. Quite a compliment!
@curtnevan Lateeef is tasteful, *unlike* Dolphy? What is your working definition of "tasteful", in this context? Dolphy, no less than Lateef, is undeniably a genius.
@CrateofStolenDirt I won't deny Dolphy's genius, but honestly I do not enjoy listening to him. Sometimes when he "goes off" on a solo-excursion, my body reacts in an unsettled way. It's rare that I want that dissonance. Kind of like Schoenberg compared to Grieg. Tyner is both melodic and cross-key excursionary (like Coltrane), but always, in my opinion, Tasteful, and tasty. Same with Cannonball and Joe Henderson. But Eric Dolphy goes places that are more disturbing than enjoyable. Like, selfish.
@jahhorkle what he is playing is excellent. how he is playing it is far from acceptable. There are two theories at work here. Musical ability and technically facility. The musicality should not be questioned at all, it's great. Personally I'd much rather hear this played on saxophone or with someone who has greater facility on the oboe. I guess I could be biased, i have both a saxophone degree (BM) and oboe degree (MM).
@jahhorkle If you want to judge my playing, I'm 18, going to study oboe performance in university next year, and I just had my first Carnegie Hall performance this Monday.
He may be a good musician, and I don't care what he influenced, but his oboe playing is repulsive. Disgusting and repulsive. There is no concept of tone. Abrasive attacks, terrible tone.
You evidently do not know what an oboe sounds like. Do yourself a favour, search "eugene izotov mozart" or "alex klein strauss".
@theothercanadian I just did exactly what you suggested--and heard the playing of Eugene Izotov (Mozart's Oboe Concerto). All I can say is THANK YOU!!! Oh my, what a sweetness and exactitude of tone. A pleasure to my ears and my heart. Again, thank you.
@gilbert20 I'm very glad you enjoyed it. The first time I heard it, I heard it I was in awe. I immediately picked up my oboe and practiced 5 hours a day. To my knowledge, you are the only one that has followed my suggestion and listened to good oboe playing.
Have you also searched "alex klein strauss"? His recording won a Grammy.
In my opinion Alex Klein and Eugene Izotov are the best oboists in the world.
@OhnoesJG You seem to have misread my comment. I was mocking theothercanadian for saying he was "disgusted" by Lateef's oboe playing. Anyone who says this is a first rate piece of music will get no (and has gotten no) argument from me.
@OhnoesJG You may want to reword what you just said, because it makes no sense. He is a horrible oboe player, enough said. It has nothing to do with his style or instrumentation.
Wow.thiswas absolutely amazing. ALBrownton really nailed the spot. all this modern crap is well, crap. I've heard that oboe is hard but that must be outrageous. Hooray for Yusef Lateef: the master
@enealDC Any answer you get is almost inevitably going to be silly one.
Either he harbors some anal objection to Yuseef's fingering, or to the "disgustingly" untraditional tone produced. Either way it's an irredeemably stupid reactionary comment, on the order bitching that Shakespeare doesn't observe the classical unities.
@enealDC I'm an oboist, and I didn't see your comment until now. He has absolutely no concept of tone. He sounds like a beginner oboist in terms of tone. The only thing he does right is play relatively in tune, which he does by biting more or less. Biting any amount produces a grotesque tone. Any decent oboist would find his tone repulsive. His attacks are also extremely abrasive. He also gets wrong octaves.
Look for Cannonball live in Japan - it's called 'Nippon Soul' - very hard to find but
features this band and has another Yusef solo that is a killer tenor piece. I lost my copy, so if any body out there has one and would be kind enough to share to can
After listening to this song again I'm convinced that todays talent. As good as it might be is still no match versus these Jazzmasters here and their likes. Because this music here was so innovative and liked, it left an imprint on Americana itself. And the truth be it known, from this music and not to leave out "Blues" all others forms came to being such as Rock & Roll, R&B Rap and Hip Hop. So being fair to all music, leave the backsliding garbage where it belongs, in the trash... Peace out
I've watched this video for 2 hours on loop and without trying to sound bitter or out of touch but I really wish that alot more younger people would listen, understand and appreciate what level these muscians are on, and how mind blowing the music they're making far beyond any sort of technical level. As long as there are people who are around who can value it there is just no injustice I suppose. I just sincerely hope people never forget how to appreciate it.
Wer sollte sonst noch sowas senden, wenn nicht 3-Sat? Die ARD hat einfach nicht den Arsch in der Hose, vielleicht mal zur Abwechslung vor der Tagesschau regelmäßig eine Jazz-Nummer einzustreuen.
This is impressive especially considering the time it was recorded. I am so glad this was preserved .. and whoever disliked this obviously has no idea what an oboe is.
Talent falls to a distant third at best when it comes to Music and what is put out there for the masses to consume. One can hear great music for free at the Eastern Market on any given Saturday, but will these wonderful musicians ever be picked up by a major label and distributed?
Talent falls to a distant third at best when it comes to Music and what is put out there for the masses to consume. One can hear great music for free at the Eastern Market on any given Saturday, but will these wonderful musicians ever be picked up by a major label and distributed?
Cannonball's my favorite alto player. Coltrane gets tenor, and Ferguson gets trumpet. Only my opinion, but I haven't been listening to jazz for a long time.
So true, deetetive. I am a self-taught jazz musician, and I can honestly say, that if I had instead received a formal education in classical music, I would know so much less. Sure I'd play my trumpet a lot "better", more "correctly" and with a more "beautiful" tone, but I'd also be much more limited. Intrestingly, classical musicians are taught to play like "everybody else" and to express a composers thoughts, while jazz musicians are encouraged to be individuals and to express themselves.
@vummeli as a classical oboist i was never taught to play like everyone else. As a jazz saxophonist I was told to copy solos, copy sound concepts, copy copy copy copy! It was not until I got a degree in classical oboe (after getting a saxophone degree) that I learned to explore my own unique voice and interpretation of music. I think you are really misinformed!!!!
Actually I agree with you about jazz education being even more narrow minded than classical. I never understood the method of copying and would never advise anyone to practice it. What I meant was that in order to really succeed, a jazz musician has to have a strong individual sound whereas a classical musician can manage with a more conventional one as long as he has the required skill. Of course that doesn't mean that classical musicians can't be individuals as well.
Continuation to my last post. A difference between jazz and classical is that, in classical music, you can take a degree and actually become competent, but in jazz you have to do all the work yourself if you're going to want to be taken seriously. This because of the differences in the philosophies of the two styles. Some things, such as techniques and theory, can be taught, but other things, like improvisation, can't. That's why academic jazz education is mostly nonsense.
@vummeli If improvisation can't be taught, then composition can't be taught. Composition can be taught/influenced in the same way that improvisation can.
As an oboist, my reedmaking is partially self taught through experimentation, but heavily influenced by oboists that I have studied with. My style is still different, so I still think you are misinformed about classical musicians. Same goes for my tone, and interpretations
A classical degree means as much as a jazz one. Next to nothing.
I never said anything about composition, I was talking about instrumentalists. I meant that a 100% institute educated, 0% self taught instrumentalist will fit classical music better than jazz and vice versa.
Obviously no musicians are 100% pure textbook students. Furthermore, different people will naturally have a different tone, technique and interpretation, but the question is how different, and how much individualism is generally desired in different styles of music.
@vummeli Reread, I was making a comparison. You clearly have no classical experience whatsoever. Learning classical musicianship and jazz musicianship is exactly the same. You learn through performance experience. The only thing you learn in an institute is technical skills which you need for any kind of music.
All genres desire individualism. Why do all oboists sound different? Why do some orchestras Use A440 while others use A442? Stop being so ignorant.
I said that all genres desire individualism but that, in general, jazz music allows more of it than classical. Is it as usual in classical as it is in jazz, that two musicians playing the same piece on the same instrument sound as different from each other as e.g. Paul Desmond and Eric Dolphy? In classical A440 and A442 are considered different tunings. In jazz such a small a pitch difference (about 7.85 cents) is completely irrelevant. Difference can also be differentiated.
Oh my! What big hands! I play oboe and my hands have to stretch a lot to reach the lower keys. Erg...playing oboe for 5 years doesn't help making my hands any bigger...but HIM! I envy his hands...
Every generation says this about the new one. Certainly the larger saturation of the media has led to much more trash to sift through but there are still great talents out there
@montango2 Sure there are genuine talents out there, and some excellent music is being made right this moment, but as a rule, due to the excessive influence of popular culture and the mass media, good music does not receive due fame and credit, while complete ear-wracking disharmony and formulaic, talentless crap pervades the airwaves.
This fabulous song and others like it are just reminders of how music is suppose to be like. Instead we as music fans have to listen to this foul-mouthed insincere noise that money hungry music execs put out, After listening to this masterpiece one can only gauge on how far we have backslid on talent. What a shame ...
However, there are more talented musicians than these. They're called 'classical musicians' and they can play every instrument that a jazz ensemble utilises and many more besides with a far higher degree of technical mastery than the guys in this video can.
Jazz is better than the modern trash of today, but it's still a big step down from 'classical' music (as in Baroque, Classical and Romantic).
Comparing classical musicians with jazz musicians is as pointless as comparing cars with boats. As you said perspective is the key. You are clearly viewing jazz musicians from a classical perspective and judging their talent based on classical criteria. In jazz, talent is not equal to technical mastery of instruments. If viewed from a jazz perspective, almost any classical musician would prove to be far inferior to a jazz musician, just like a car would make a really bad boat.
When it comes to playing instruments, classical musicians are superior. That isn't to say jazz musicians don't have their own particular skills. We're not comparing cars and boats. We're comparing rock musicians (as alluded to by ALBrowntown), jazz musicians and 'classical' (to use a broad term) musicians.
Some musicians are better able to wield their instrument than others and classical musicians do it best/ most skilfully of all.
You need to broaden your view, slapupchrist. I agreed with you about classical musicians having superior technical mastery of their instruments. My point was, that technically mastering an instrument is of secondary value in jazz music. Why else would people like Miles Davis and Thelonious Monk be celebreted jazz musicians? Judging by classical terms, their technique is horrible. I still think my analogy works. There is no universal style of music wich we could use to compare different styles.
vummeli, my view is broad enough to recognise that there is value in jazz as well as in classical.
I reiterate my first assertion that classical musicians can play every instrument that a jazz ensemble utilises and many more besides with a far higher degree of technical mastery than the guys in this video can.
To point to how "how far we have backslid on talent" (as stated by ALBrowntown), is not exhaustively accurate if classical musicianship is not posed as being the ultimate 'talent'.
Slapupchrist, I always agreed with you about the technical mastery part, my point was simply that "talent" can mean so much more. I don't think jazz is a backslide from classical music, if anything, different styles enrich our lives. I don't think we should consider classial musicianship the ultimate talent, because it's only ultimate in some areas of musical talent. In any artform, there is a classical way of doing things, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the ultimate way.
slapupchrist, I respect your opinion. But it's just an opinion, not the "truth" like you make it sound. I think impressioninsm was a step forward from romanticism, just like romanticism was from baroque. Jazz is neither a step back nor forward from classical music, because it has nothing to do with it. As you say: it's different.
Now, I don't think two fundamentaly different things can be compared with each other (cars and boats...). Therefore neither can be universally superior to the other.
Thank you for posting. to see all of these guys is amazing, especially a young Joe Z.
L1stener 4 days ago
Tasty...
ws3d 1 week ago
Wao, what a great melody with a great companion, Perfect.
dlaboy22 2 weeks ago
the sax is spirit
Mucupuru 1 month ago
Zawinul - the white messiah
stingraypoindexter 2 months ago 2
Oh god...:) wow
somaditya75 2 months ago
Brilliant
mickhutchinson 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When I'm listening this music I recallect my youth. I was 22 years old.
vagif330 3 months ago in playlist YouTube Mix for Cannonball Adderley
When I'm listening this music I recolect my youth. I was 22 years old.
vagif330 3 months ago in playlist YouTube Mix for Cannonball Adderley
@vagif330 What an extraordinary coincidence. I too was once twenty-two years old.
polymath7 3 months ago
GSA "Project Funk Jam"/ "All Blues"
1wvserenity 3 months ago
Cannonball is way too cool! Look him 'swing" with the music. You can tell he loves what he's doing.
MonsitaPin0627 4 months ago
i cant over how great it is that jazz muscians besides maybe some classical musicians from hundreds of years ago are the most talented musicians in a long while. infinitely more talented than any pop or modern rock "musicians" and there still sporting suits and ties not daring to even think about taking there shirt and trying to look as classy as possible compared the shit blink 182 produces where 15 minutes into a concert they find it neccesary to take their shirts off
yourfamilydocter 4 months ago
Who knew an oboe could be used in jazz. I have some hope now of my learning jazz now haha
denimchick00 5 months ago
The way "Ball" counts of the time says it all...I will not waste my time with all the NOISE!... coming from some on this site!
wel722 5 months ago
Along with Lateef's innovative and beautiful oboe was my man, Eric Dolphy, on bass clarinet. That is a wonderful sounding instrument.
gilbert20 7 months ago
10) And which makes them complain about Lateef's oboe skills
11) Jazz music can't be judged from a classical point of view and vice versa
12) Yusef Lateef is a great musician, though maybe not such a great oboist because he plays primarily tenor saxophone and flute.
13) To avoid confusion and unnecessary arguments with both sides reasoning identically, people on youtube should not reply to another person's latest comment before reading all of his or her previous comments.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli Good summary there. I agree with most of it. The original argument I was making, and people shooting me down for, were saying that Lateef was a terrible oboist, no matter how good he was as a musician.
There is just as much individualism in classical music as there is in jazz. For example, a North American oboist will sound completely different from a French oboist. The embouchure is completely different, and so are the reeds. Try listening to Eugene Izotov compared to Francois Leleux
theothercanadian 7 months ago
4) All instrumentalists, regardless of genre, sound slightly different
5) But in general, jazz musicians differ more from each other than classical musicians
6) Institutes only teach technique and theory. Performing, composing and improvising have to be learned through own experiences
7) In jazz you can get away with more "faults" than in classical
8) And because of this, classical musicians tend to be more aware of "perfection"
9) Which makes them seem more theoretical and narrow-minded
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli We are not narrow minded and refuse change. For example, the great Marcel Tabuteau completely changed oboe playing in North America. At the time North American orchestras tended to "import" wind players from France and brass from Germany. As expected, the sounds did not blend at all because the playing styles and concepts were completely different. He developed the "North American" sound to blend.
There's also the thing about the Philly Orchestra playing baroque in a romantic style.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
I wish people would read each others' comments more thoroughly. Most people who have been "arguing" with me about this piece here have basically had pretty much the same opinions I have, just expressing them differently or with very small variations. Just as a reference, so people can stop bothering me, here are my opinions:
1) Yes, Lateef's oboe playing is far from excellent
2) However, it fits the tune quite perfectly
3) Classical music is more meticulous and precise than jazz
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli I also do not think the oboe playing fits the tune perfectly, because oboe playing THAT BAD cannot fit anything except a high school band. If you want to hear proper attempts to use the oboe in jazz, try searching "jean luc fillon oboe" or "pat hill oboe jazz".
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
Nice to see we are agreeing on something here. It's funny though, how people are so critical of the instruments they play. This, I would say, applies more to institute educated musicians. It's the perfectionism I mentioned. One cannot enjoy "incorrect" use of an instrument no matter how it may sound. Which means only non-oboists will be able to judge Lateef's performance objectively. Someone who hasn't played the oboe might like that "horrible" tone. I know I do.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli The reason any oboist will think his tone is horrible, is because that is exactly how beginner high school oboists sound. I'm not exaggerating here, its the same type of tone. As an oboist, our first hurdle (more like a wall) is to get out of that crappy tone zone. The oboe is a weird instrument, in that on the tone spectrum, 99% of players will have a horrible dying animal, or sound like god's gift to the winds. There's very little in between.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
I know it sounds like a beginners tone. Lateef was in a way a beginner on oboe. That was my point. As an oboist, you cannot accept the possibility that something that sounds like a beginner sounds good, maybe because the oboe is such a hard instrument and oboists have some sort of trauma related to this tone. I think it fits this piece. It's my opinion as a non-oboist. I don't care what an oboe is or is not "supposed to sound like", I just enjoy the sound.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli I also don't think I'm exactly an institute educated musician. I'm still in high school, and I attend a regular high school and not some arts school.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
I never said anything about your being this or that. I don't even know you. When I said something about classical or educated musicians I was only generalizing, not talking about you or any other specific person in any way. I'm not trying to offend classical musicians. I like classical music. I just think it's entertaining when classical musicians say they're as open-minded as everybody else and yet seem to disdain people who don't sound like perfected classical musicians.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli Tone is a very personal thing. I hate the sound of european oboist (they hate us too). But I still acknowledge that they are great musicians.
In my opinion, classical music is just as open minded. There ARE certain rules that we follow, but there are also certain rules that jazz musicians follow too.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
How can it be equally open minded if it reacts much stronger to much smaller divergence? Even the name "classical" suggests conservatism and institutionalism. The rules jazz musicians follow are very abstract and flexible. The only unquestionable rule in jazz is "if it sounds good it is good". In classical it's more like "if it follows these well-tried patterns it should probably sound good". Classical music is like science, striving for objectiveness, jazz is more subjective.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli In classical music, the goal is still to sound good. Classical music is actually a name given by the general public. What you said about classical music is true, but only for the classical era of classical music. How many rules do you think the Rite of Spring broke?
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
Don't you think the general public is onto something? You should realize that I'm generalizing. A very small part of classical music, even today, is like the Rite of Spring.
And regarding the theory thing: what need have we to know why something sounds good? That's unnecessary work. As I said, jazz musicians only need to know that something sounds cool and they're happy with that. Classical musicians have to analyze and recreate everything, which spoils all the fun.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli No, because the general public is very ignorant to most things.
You need to understand that music is completely mathematical. Trying to figure out why things sound good, so you can continue to make things sound good seems efficient to me. Even jazz musicians follow set rules in music theory. Even while improvising, each jazz musician follows his or her own set of rules subconsciously. That's why everyone sounds different.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
Music is played for the general public. The customer is always right, even in this case.
To me music is not math, it's art. It's about creating, and expressing one's emotions in a completely abstract and irrational way. On a surface level, you can make anything mathematical. The deeper you delve into music, the more random it gets. Basically, it's just random sounds occurring at random time events. It's your choice if you want to simplify it enough to make it mathematical.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli No matter how far you get, music is completely mathematical. The deeper you get, the more mathematical it becomes. there are always reasons why we like things. We don't like things "just because". There can be no argument there. I don't understand why the general public calling classical music a genre makes the whole thing like the classical period.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
The question, whether we like things for a reason or not is still philosophical, as I don't know that it should have been scientifically proved yet. Personally, I think we just either like things or not, and come up with reasons afterwards. "Just because" is, in my opinion, the best reason to like something.
Besides, there can be no objective theory that guaranties what sounds good, because music is a subjective, personal experience.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli Logically, our brains work with chemical algorithms, so there are reasons why we are stimulated in certain ways. Sound is objective, no doubt, because our brains all work in different ways. You only think that about music theory, because you have never studied it and you lack knowledge of it. I'm not saying I'm a theory expert, but I challenge you to find a single person that doesn't think a IV-V-I cadence feels complete, or one that thinks a locrian scale sounds complete.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
The fact that our brains function chemically does not confirm that our reasons are rational.
I don't think you understand my point. Yes, sound is objective. Yes, most people, including me, find a IV-V-I complete, but they don't necessarily have to enjoy it just because of that (and one could argue that this feeling of completeness is is a cultural thing). I know some music theory. I just don't directly use it to create music, which I think nobody should.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli It doesn't have to be rational, but it proves that things don't "just happen".
Completeness is not a cultural thing. It is a universal thing. Music is universal, which is why it's such a powerful form of art. The fact that it is universal, proves that it is mathematical. No matter where you go, 1+1 is still 2, and an octave is still an octave.
Everyone applies music theory to create music. Otherwise we wouldn't have a scale. Even in this recording, a key is immediately established.
theothercanadian 7 months ago 2
@theothercanadian
I'd say it's pretty impossible to trace back the reason why you like something and connect it with some chemical reaction. Biology and chemistry alone are not sufficient in explaining psychology. To us humans, the brain still works in pretty mysterious ways.
Do you think Indian classical music sounds complete? And actually 1+1=2 per definition, there's no logic behind it. Just try to prove it mathematically.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli Just because we can't understand it doesn't mean there is no reason. Psychology is our attempt at explaining the results of the algorithms.
Music doesn't have to sound "complete", I was using it as an example. Indian classical music is still completely mathematical. Their scale sounds funny to us, because we are used to hearing major and minor scales. However, their scales are based on the same harmonic series. They still establish a key immediately, but they use quarter tones.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian Excuse me......are you able to enjoy any music? I m honestly not trying to be sarcastic. I mean it. Your intellectualism gets in the way of pure enjoyment. You may criticize me for my naivete, but I might just be older and wiser than you, sir.
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 I do enjoy music. Why else would I study it in university? I don't enjoy somebody playing my instrument poorly. Would you enjoy listening to a kid screeching away on a violin for the first time?
Anyone would prefer a quality performance. There is a reason why I'd rather go see the Toronto Symphony than say a high school band.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian OK OK, I get it. Sorry I didn't read thoroughly enough. (But must you kids talk so much? :) )
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 I'll listen to "Catalin Rotaru Bass" at some point. It's youtube, and lot of "simpletons" shall we say, go here, telling me I'm narrow minded for hating the oboe playing in this video.
My firm belief is that they are fans of the artist or style, and therefore like it because their favourite artist is playing instead of listening to what's being played. That's why in the music world we do what's called "screened auditions" where you play anonymously behind a screen.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian Since you opened a wonderful door for me, please allow me to return the favor? Search "Catalin Rotaru Bass" and hold on to your socks.
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 I'm listening to his recording of the Haydn Cello concerto. Although I prefer it better on the cello, as the slight edge in the cello's tone has a better capacity to carry melody. I know the piece rather well, I performed it a few months ago, except I played 2nd oboe. It is excellent; very musical and technically precise.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian Sorry, I have been away for a few days, and wanted to talk with you a bit. For beauty of tone, could you please listen to Rotaru's recently uploaded Chopin Nocturne? I feel it is quite rich, And for fireworks, the tarantellas cannot be beat! Honestly, I don't know how many bassists could even play one of those, let alone make it so enjoyable. For me, music really soars when the artist transcends the instrument--when I forget it is a bass, and just listen to the pure music.
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 Sorry, I didn't finish. The incredible oboe sounds you introduced to me have the same quality. I know it is often difficult to "forget" I am listening to an oboe, since it is SO distinctive, but I try. BTW, the first chair oboe for the NY Phil used to spend 20 hrs/week shaving his reeds. Awesome! His knives were pretty amazing, too.
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 20 hours a week isn't too much. I used to have to spend 5 hours a day making reeds, because they never worked. Now I'm down to about 2-3 hours of reed making every day, because I can make some pretty decent reeds, although not all of them are any good. Its a fact quoted by every competent oboist that almost all major oboe players have spent more time making reeds than practicing.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
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@theothercanadian "20 hours a week isn't too much"
Just for making reeds? That sounds very , ah, committed. I paint, and I thought I was being exacting in occasionally taking as long as an hour to premix all the colors on my palette.
polymath7 3 months ago
@gilbert20 Excellent recording. I think the bass actually suits the piece well. For the Haydn concerto, there is a reason Haydn wrote it for cello and not bass. Well, many actually, but the cello is much better than the bass for carrying a flashy melody like those in classical era concertos. It's like why the orchestra tunes to an oboe instead of say a flute. The sound of the oboe is very distinct and can be heard clearly over the orchestra.
Yes I agree, but the tone is an important factor.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@vummeli When we talk about our rules in music theory, please understand that its a theory developed in the last 100 years. Why? Baroque, Classical and early Romantic composers didn't have to learn theory. Music theory is us, looking back at music written hundreds of years ago, and trying to figure out why things sounded good and why things didn't.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
I saw a bright light..... and heard an oboe : )
teapartyrich 7 months ago
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^__^
thumbs up if u agree
Lif34evagirlz 8 months ago
Cannonball looks like a bear! LOL
OhnoesJG 8 months ago
an anthology of the brothers Adderley presentation with the presence of another great musician, Yuseff Lateef.
bluejazz44 8 months ago
really cool! I play oboe & my goal as an oboe player is to achieve this amazing feat.
OhnoesJG 8 months ago
swag
187mandem 9 months ago
The comments about the backsliding of musical talent is not true. Talent is out there, and now, just as with this music here, it's not found on the radio. Back then this wasn't found on the radio because of racism, and now talent isn't found on the radio because the radio stations are owned by two or three major corporations.
BradLanute 9 months ago
@BradLanute No, that'd be because people have worse taste in music than ever, and the corporations play what people want to hear. And this wasn't on the radio because jazz has always been a niche. Popular black artists at the time were starting rock n roll music, jazz was quickly becoming a thing of the past.
Acct1941 8 months ago
@Acct1941 To clarify my point: Since the radio has been monopolized by corporations they have eliminated the role of the DJ as a diffuser of new and innovate musical forms. Instead, we have static playlists, which may very well be because corporations have realized that's what people want to hear.
BradLanute 8 months ago
@Acct1941 If that is the case, I would posit that that is the way humans have always been, and DJs play an essential role for proliferating innovative forms of music and real talent. Hence I would say that there is talent out there but no means of diffusing it to the larger public. It takes hard work to seek it out, and people are pretty complacent.
BradLanute 8 months ago
@Acct1941 Just to clarify my point: A result of the monopolization of the airwaves is the diminished of the role of the DJ in diffusing new and innovative forms of music and talent. What we have now are static playlists. Perhaps these corporations have figured out that people are willing to listen to the same thing over and over again.
BradLanute 8 months ago
@Acct1941 If that is the case, I would posit that that is the way humans have always been, and emphasizes more the role that DJs play for proliferating innovative forms of music and real talent. People weren't turned off by DJs back in the day when they had more freedom. Hence I would say that there is talent out there but no means of diffusing it to the larger public. It takes hard work to seek it out, and people are pretty complacent.
BradLanute 8 months ago
@BradLanute Well... someone went to college. And actually I agree that disc jockeys have been eliminated, thus eliminating their discretion in breaking out a talented act. But more and more people will see that mass-produced music is'nt the way to go, restarting the cycle of popularizing new/unpopular music. But what's happening now is that there is far too big of a market for the aforementioned, leading to total obscurity and a divided listenership.
Acct1941 8 months ago
@Acct1941 agreed!
BradLanute 8 months ago
Oh, Yeah!
nassreiskulturen 9 months ago
Yusef Lateef on jazz oboe!
ericfontainejazz 9 months ago
Ce n'est pas nouveau....mais c'est toujours inégalé.....quelle magnifique musique et quels musiciens !!!
zebobchat 10 months ago
This is amazing-- what time signature is the verse? It kinda feels like 6/8, but only every other measure
quiksilverlad 10 months ago
@quiksilverlad Yeah i can hear what you're talkin about, I might be hearing it wrong, but I could of sworn I heard 6/8 switching to 7/8 at one point
Shmityorshen 8 months ago
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Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the core-style of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Hannes2k 10 months ago
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Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the style of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Hannes2k 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Lateef is genius. And this song all together is fantastic in the way it catches the core of Coltranes musical style, not just copying it, but elevating it
Hannes2k 10 months ago
Comment removed
Hannes2k 10 months ago
Lateef's Oboe playing is genius-the fool who was disgusted probably is mediocre in his playing and his life-Yuseef was ground breaking along w/Eric Dolphy in their use of non-traditional instruments in Jazz-influencing many other Oboe players in the genre (Karl Jenkins of Soft Machine for example),
jahhorkle 10 months ago 10
@jahhorkle The difference is that Lateef is always tasteful, unlike Dolphy. How about Kiane Zawadi on Euphonium? Now there's a non-trraditional reed! This piece is perfection, every note, every player. Best work by Nat Adderly on record, too. He gets that pure, dark Miles intonation without sounding like he's mimicking Davis. How cool is the white guy (Joe Zawinul)? Cannonball and Miles both said that Zawinul, from Eastern Europe, had as much pure Soul as any Black Man. Quite a compliment!
curtnevan 8 months ago
@curtnevan Lateeef is tasteful, *unlike* Dolphy? What is your working definition of "tasteful", in this context? Dolphy, no less than Lateef, is undeniably a genius.
CrateofStolenDirt 8 months ago
@CrateofStolenDirt I won't deny Dolphy's genius, but honestly I do not enjoy listening to him. Sometimes when he "goes off" on a solo-excursion, my body reacts in an unsettled way. It's rare that I want that dissonance. Kind of like Schoenberg compared to Grieg. Tyner is both melodic and cross-key excursionary (like Coltrane), but always, in my opinion, Tasteful, and tasty. Same with Cannonball and Joe Henderson. But Eric Dolphy goes places that are more disturbing than enjoyable. Like, selfish.
curtnevan 8 months ago
@jahhorkle what he is playing is excellent. how he is playing it is far from acceptable. There are two theories at work here. Musical ability and technically facility. The musicality should not be questioned at all, it's great. Personally I'd much rather hear this played on saxophone or with someone who has greater facility on the oboe. I guess I could be biased, i have both a saxophone degree (BM) and oboe degree (MM).
joethemusician 8 months ago
@jahhorkle If you want to judge my playing, I'm 18, going to study oboe performance in university next year, and I just had my first Carnegie Hall performance this Monday.
He may be a good musician, and I don't care what he influenced, but his oboe playing is repulsive. Disgusting and repulsive. There is no concept of tone. Abrasive attacks, terrible tone.
You evidently do not know what an oboe sounds like. Do yourself a favour, search "eugene izotov mozart" or "alex klein strauss".
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian I just did exactly what you suggested--and heard the playing of Eugene Izotov (Mozart's Oboe Concerto). All I can say is THANK YOU!!! Oh my, what a sweetness and exactitude of tone. A pleasure to my ears and my heart. Again, thank you.
gilbert20 7 months ago
@gilbert20 I'm very glad you enjoyed it. The first time I heard it, I heard it I was in awe. I immediately picked up my oboe and practiced 5 hours a day. To my knowledge, you are the only one that has followed my suggestion and listened to good oboe playing.
Have you also searched "alex klein strauss"? His recording won a Grammy.
In my opinion Alex Klein and Eugene Izotov are the best oboists in the world.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
Just as a shoutout, classical musicians aren't as stuck up and conservative as you guys all think. Read about the great oboist, Marcel Tabuteau.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
see, this is what I'm talking about, see that cat on Piano?
MrGoldfangaz49 10 months ago
by the way, theothercanadian and polymath7 are dumb; how could you cuss this astonishing piece of fine talent?
OhnoesJG 11 months ago
@OhnoesJG You seem to have misread my comment. I was mocking theothercanadian for saying he was "disgusted" by Lateef's oboe playing. Anyone who says this is a first rate piece of music will get no (and has gotten no) argument from me.
polymath7 10 months ago
@polymath7
sorry, i will slap myself
OhnoesJG 10 months ago
@OhnoesJG im an oboist. this guy may be a talented musician, but he is a god awful oboist.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
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OhnoesJG 7 months ago
@OhnoesJG You may want to reword what you just said, because it makes no sense. He is a horrible oboe player, enough said. It has nothing to do with his style or instrumentation.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
Wow.thiswas absolutely amazing. ALBrownton really nailed the spot. all this modern crap is well, crap. I've heard that oboe is hard but that must be outrageous. Hooray for Yusef Lateef: the master
OhnoesJG 11 months ago
@ theothercanadian May I ask why? I'm not a musician but I am a big Yuseef fan..
enealDC 11 months ago
@enealDC Any answer you get is almost inevitably going to be silly one.
Either he harbors some anal objection to Yuseef's fingering, or to the "disgustingly" untraditional tone produced. Either way it's an irredeemably stupid reactionary comment, on the order bitching that Shakespeare doesn't observe the classical unities.
polymath7 11 months ago
@polymath7 *on the order of
polymath7 11 months ago
@polymath7 It's that it's not untraditional, but it is disgusting tone. I hear the tone all the time, when people touch the oboe for the first time.
ANY competent musician will know that this is terrible oboe playing.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@enealDC I'm an oboist, and I didn't see your comment until now. He has absolutely no concept of tone. He sounds like a beginner oboist in terms of tone. The only thing he does right is play relatively in tune, which he does by biting more or less. Biting any amount produces a grotesque tone. Any decent oboist would find his tone repulsive. His attacks are also extremely abrasive. He also gets wrong octaves.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
As a classical oboist, this disgusted me. Everything about this is fine except the oboe.
theothercanadian 11 months ago
Look for Cannonball live in Japan - it's called 'Nippon Soul' - very hard to find but
features this band and has another Yusef solo that is a killer tenor piece. I lost my copy, so if any body out there has one and would be kind enough to share to can
reach me at o1ekman@q.com. Thanks so much.
muffinhauser 11 months ago
After listening to this song again I'm convinced that todays talent. As good as it might be is still no match versus these Jazzmasters here and their likes. Because this music here was so innovative and liked, it left an imprint on Americana itself. And the truth be it known, from this music and not to leave out "Blues" all others forms came to being such as Rock & Roll, R&B Rap and Hip Hop. So being fair to all music, leave the backsliding garbage where it belongs, in the trash... Peace out
ALBrowntown 11 months ago
terrible tone and embouchure , but very cool melodies :3
patrickbateman7 11 months ago
I've watched this video for 2 hours on loop and without trying to sound bitter or out of touch but I really wish that alot more younger people would listen, understand and appreciate what level these muscians are on, and how mind blowing the music they're making far beyond any sort of technical level. As long as there are people who are around who can value it there is just no injustice I suppose. I just sincerely hope people never forget how to appreciate it.
poachedegginsoup 11 months ago
I'm an oboe player and I've got to say that oboe playing is really impressive!
TheDavid2222 11 months ago
Does anyone know where we can find the score of this fabulous tune by Mr Lateef?
stikphil 11 months ago
Well said montago2,
dropcityproductions 1 year ago
FANTASTIC!!!!!
mikie8865 1 year ago
jazz oboe!!! :D
ThePianoTwins16 1 year ago
jazz1bro, I belive that you hit it right on the head...ALBrowntown
ALBrowntown 1 year ago
Wer sollte sonst noch sowas senden, wenn nicht 3-Sat? Die ARD hat einfach nicht den Arsch in der Hose, vielleicht mal zur Abwechslung vor der Tagesschau regelmäßig eine Jazz-Nummer einzustreuen.
dralger 1 year ago
I found this video simply by chance for a school assignment and...my god my ears have never felt this good before...
sync380 1 year ago
for any Kenny Garrett fans out there....6:02 and 6:04! Ya dig!?
vcfreak 1 year ago
This is impressive especially considering the time it was recorded. I am so glad this was preserved .. and whoever disliked this obviously has no idea what an oboe is.
StephanieAGudeman 1 year ago
8 Dislikes... must be 8 Justin Bieber fans haha.
SofaKingCool79 1 year ago 4
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Talent falls to a distant third at best when it comes to Music and what is put out there for the masses to consume. One can hear great music for free at the Eastern Market on any given Saturday, but will these wonderful musicians ever be picked up by a major label and distributed?
Highly unlikely,no profit.
Dawtaajudah 1 year ago
Talent falls to a distant third at best when it comes to Music and what is put out there for the masses to consume. One can hear great music for free at the Eastern Market on any given Saturday, but will these wonderful musicians ever be picked up by a major label and distributed?
Highly unlikely,no profit.
Dawtaajudah 1 year ago
jazz in oboe. am i in heaven?
i was so happy to find it since im an oboe player
bislibamba 1 year ago
is een van de mooiste jazz uit deze periode
kayer2010 1 year ago
boe rox i play it!
ElitaEli 1 year ago
Yusef Lateef is on oboe.
kidzdoc 1 year ago
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Who is on oboe?
acudoc8 1 year ago
Who is on oboe?
acudoc8 1 year ago
Cannonball's my favorite alto player. Coltrane gets tenor, and Ferguson gets trumpet. Only my opinion, but I haven't been listening to jazz for a long time.
MrFinalheart 1 year ago
If you try hard enough you can find incredible musicians, it just depends on whether you really want to find an appreciate them
youngun550 1 year ago
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un-fu*kin believable, it can't get better then this !!! out of this freak- in world :)
leonardrashid 1 year ago
un-fu*kin beliveable, it can't get better then this !!! out of this freakin world :)
leonardrashid 1 year ago 2
un-fu*kin beliveable, it can't get better then this !!! :)
leonardrashid 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this isn't even music :P
bboyseryoga795sli 1 year ago
@bboyseryoga795sli then what is it my friend
leonardrashid 1 year ago
All giants in the genre all go on to be so successful and most of them come from my state and college. Cannonball forever!
liongod311 1 year ago
Few musicians are as consistintly briliant as Cannonball Adderley. This whole band too !!
mickhutchinson 1 year ago
hes eating it alive by 6:50. no mercy, cat fence crawlin, black tie jazz
honourae 1 year ago
Someone call the astro-physics department, i have found the center of the universe! It's between those 6 musicians.
Eprocadation 1 year ago 7
fantastic. amazing. brilliant. genious. inspiring. just....WOW.
mcmolgog 1 year ago 2
(2nd part)
and there is something else.
maybe when you say that classical musicians are masters of their instrument, maybe you referring to bach, and mozart.
im a popular musician, and in college i have met many classical musicians.
and to be honest, they suck at improvising and in aural skills.
their sound is beautiful, they dynamic is perfect... but they cant improvise and cant swing as well.
to master both worlds, you have to experience both of them, like bill evans and ron carter did.
deetetive 1 year ago
So true, deetetive. I am a self-taught jazz musician, and I can honestly say, that if I had instead received a formal education in classical music, I would know so much less. Sure I'd play my trumpet a lot "better", more "correctly" and with a more "beautiful" tone, but I'd also be much more limited. Intrestingly, classical musicians are taught to play like "everybody else" and to express a composers thoughts, while jazz musicians are encouraged to be individuals and to express themselves.
vummeli 1 year ago
@vummeli as a classical oboist i was never taught to play like everyone else. As a jazz saxophonist I was told to copy solos, copy sound concepts, copy copy copy copy! It was not until I got a degree in classical oboe (after getting a saxophone degree) that I learned to explore my own unique voice and interpretation of music. I think you are really misinformed!!!!
joethemusician 8 months ago
@joethemusician
Actually I agree with you about jazz education being even more narrow minded than classical. I never understood the method of copying and would never advise anyone to practice it. What I meant was that in order to really succeed, a jazz musician has to have a strong individual sound whereas a classical musician can manage with a more conventional one as long as he has the required skill. Of course that doesn't mean that classical musicians can't be individuals as well.
vummeli 8 months ago
@joethemusician
Continuation to my last post. A difference between jazz and classical is that, in classical music, you can take a degree and actually become competent, but in jazz you have to do all the work yourself if you're going to want to be taken seriously. This because of the differences in the philosophies of the two styles. Some things, such as techniques and theory, can be taught, but other things, like improvisation, can't. That's why academic jazz education is mostly nonsense.
vummeli 8 months ago
@vummeli If improvisation can't be taught, then composition can't be taught. Composition can be taught/influenced in the same way that improvisation can.
As an oboist, my reedmaking is partially self taught through experimentation, but heavily influenced by oboists that I have studied with. My style is still different, so I still think you are misinformed about classical musicians. Same goes for my tone, and interpretations
A classical degree means as much as a jazz one. Next to nothing.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
I never said anything about composition, I was talking about instrumentalists. I meant that a 100% institute educated, 0% self taught instrumentalist will fit classical music better than jazz and vice versa.
Obviously no musicians are 100% pure textbook students. Furthermore, different people will naturally have a different tone, technique and interpretation, but the question is how different, and how much individualism is generally desired in different styles of music.
vummeli 7 months ago
@vummeli Reread, I was making a comparison. You clearly have no classical experience whatsoever. Learning classical musicianship and jazz musicianship is exactly the same. You learn through performance experience. The only thing you learn in an institute is technical skills which you need for any kind of music.
All genres desire individualism. Why do all oboists sound different? Why do some orchestras Use A440 while others use A442? Stop being so ignorant.
theothercanadian 7 months ago
@theothercanadian
I said that all genres desire individualism but that, in general, jazz music allows more of it than classical. Is it as usual in classical as it is in jazz, that two musicians playing the same piece on the same instrument sound as different from each other as e.g. Paul Desmond and Eric Dolphy? In classical A440 and A442 are considered different tunings. In jazz such a small a pitch difference (about 7.85 cents) is completely irrelevant. Difference can also be differentiated.
vummeli 7 months ago
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vummeli 7 months ago
slapupchrist, I have to agree with vummeli.
your personal taste is interfering with your arguments.
tell us, in an objective way, why do you think jazz is inferior to classical music?
can your realize that our modern values they are different than the things people valued four centuries ago?
and that the things I value or vummeli does, they are different than yours?
deetetive 1 year ago
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TheWoogyEffect 1 year ago
So what is Yusef playing here? Sounds quite arabian-eseque
RiversideIndian 1 year ago
@RiversideIndian
oboe
dralger 1 year ago
someone can tell me that mouthpiece used cannonball?
jon93099 1 year ago
Comment removed
nunomiguelw 1 year ago
@nunomiguelw it's an oboe
savedsax 1 year ago
so i'm kidding around and typed in 'jazz oboe' as a bit of a joke ... best punchline i've EVER tripped over!!! Thank you for sharing this, man!!!!
oilau 1 year ago
What you don't see is a cobra standing in front of Lateef.....
weskoki 1 year ago 3
this sounds so much like coltranes "my favourite things"!
madmusicianmax 1 year ago
oboe good, cool.
Chorniyvit 1 year ago
great sounds.
rigaude 2 years ago 3
Oboes just amek everything sound more.....sofistocated, or so i believe.
3xXJessicaXx3 2 years ago
Oh my! What big hands! I play oboe and my hands have to stretch a lot to reach the lower keys. Erg...playing oboe for 5 years doesn't help making my hands any bigger...but HIM! I envy his hands...
Iciebleu 2 years ago
The great Yusef Lateef, from Detroit, MI!
szumo1982 1 year ago
Every generation says this about the new one. Certainly the larger saturation of the media has led to much more trash to sift through but there are still great talents out there
montango2 2 years ago 34
@montango2 Sure there are genuine talents out there, and some excellent music is being made right this moment, but as a rule, due to the excessive influence of popular culture and the mass media, good music does not receive due fame and credit, while complete ear-wracking disharmony and formulaic, talentless crap pervades the airwaves.
elgaed69 1 year ago
This fabulous song and others like it are just reminders of how music is suppose to be like. Instead we as music fans have to listen to this foul-mouthed insincere noise that money hungry music execs put out, After listening to this masterpiece one can only gauge on how far we have backslid on talent. What a shame ...
ALBrowntown 2 years ago 44
@ALBrowntown
Well written my man. Can't say anything in addition.
Chuck
chuck5979 1 year ago
@chuck5979 And thank you sir as well... Alex B.
ALBrowntown 1 year ago
@ALBrowntown Ohmuguh, THANK YOU. A light amongst darness, u are my friend
crimsonhawk52 1 year ago
ALBrowntown, I agree with you.
However, there are more talented musicians than these. They're called 'classical musicians' and they can play every instrument that a jazz ensemble utilises and many more besides with a far higher degree of technical mastery than the guys in this video can.
Jazz is better than the modern trash of today, but it's still a big step down from 'classical' music (as in Baroque, Classical and Romantic).
Perspective is the key, here.
slapupchrist 1 year ago
@slapupchrist
Comparing classical musicians with jazz musicians is as pointless as comparing cars with boats. As you said perspective is the key. You are clearly viewing jazz musicians from a classical perspective and judging their talent based on classical criteria. In jazz, talent is not equal to technical mastery of instruments. If viewed from a jazz perspective, almost any classical musician would prove to be far inferior to a jazz musician, just like a car would make a really bad boat.
vummeli 1 year ago
Bad analogy, vummeli.
When it comes to playing instruments, classical musicians are superior. That isn't to say jazz musicians don't have their own particular skills. We're not comparing cars and boats. We're comparing rock musicians (as alluded to by ALBrowntown), jazz musicians and 'classical' (to use a broad term) musicians.
Some musicians are better able to wield their instrument than others and classical musicians do it best/ most skilfully of all.
slapupchrist 1 year ago
You need to broaden your view, slapupchrist. I agreed with you about classical musicians having superior technical mastery of their instruments. My point was, that technically mastering an instrument is of secondary value in jazz music. Why else would people like Miles Davis and Thelonious Monk be celebreted jazz musicians? Judging by classical terms, their technique is horrible. I still think my analogy works. There is no universal style of music wich we could use to compare different styles.
vummeli 1 year ago
vummeli, my view is broad enough to recognise that there is value in jazz as well as in classical.
I reiterate my first assertion that classical musicians can play every instrument that a jazz ensemble utilises and many more besides with a far higher degree of technical mastery than the guys in this video can.
To point to how "how far we have backslid on talent" (as stated by ALBrowntown), is not exhaustively accurate if classical musicianship is not posed as being the ultimate 'talent'.
slapupchrist 1 year ago
Slapupchrist, I always agreed with you about the technical mastery part, my point was simply that "talent" can mean so much more. I don't think jazz is a backslide from classical music, if anything, different styles enrich our lives. I don't think we should consider classial musicianship the ultimate talent, because it's only ultimate in some areas of musical talent. In any artform, there is a classical way of doing things, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the ultimate way.
vummeli 1 year ago
vummeli, 'difference' is different to 'superior'.
I enjoy jazz.
Jazz is different to classical.
Classical musicians are superior to jazz musicians.
Classical music is superior to jazz.
Jazz music is a step backwards from classical music just as impressionism was a step backwards from romanticism.
Just because something is fresh and popular and 'enriching', that doesn't mean it's equal to its predecessor.
slapupchrist 1 year ago
slapupchrist, I respect your opinion. But it's just an opinion, not the "truth" like you make it sound. I think impressioninsm was a step forward from romanticism, just like romanticism was from baroque. Jazz is neither a step back nor forward from classical music, because it has nothing to do with it. As you say: it's different.
Now, I don't think two fundamentaly different things can be compared with each other (cars and boats...). Therefore neither can be universally superior to the other.
vummeli 1 year ago