LOL So have you been taking lessons in making asinine videos from the RedBeetle? Try dealing with Preterism either partial or full. This sort of childish nonsense impresses no one.
Really I should of just told you .......Jude 9. Your attack on this Godly man and his father should be repented of immediately for I pray the Lord turn you over to satan until you do.
If truth be told, you like most people ive seen, who get so defensive have no other recourse but to try to defame with clever trickery of scripture so falsely applied (deceivers). None and I mean none of your accusation towards Brother Preston are warranted by any scripture, Frankly, im against church history in this area too but not all areas as those who are on the defensive would so try to make it. And why? Because the Bible is against the traditional church in this area.......
Your not in the Spirit of our Lord Jesus to try to defame a mans character due to your opposed opinion. Jesus was an outcast, how should his followers differ? I've never met 2 futurists/traditionalist who ever agreed on everything in Matt 24! So how does that make Brother Preston any different? Cults are obvious. They introduce their own scripture among other things. None of these does Brother Preston do!
...contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3b ESV)
I have seen this used against FP as though Jude had the Presbyterian Church (USA) in mind.
However, 'the faith' for Jude was not subsequent doctrines that would eventually be delivered to the church over thousands of years by men with varying motives and opinions. 'The faith' is only found in God's inspired Word by those who seek Him.
I'm saying that I believe God has preserved His Word through the use of people no different than you or me. The focus should be on what GOD has done to preserve His Word, the Bible, not to equate traditions and doctrines of men with Scripture. Are you thinking that God has preserved so-called 'orthodoxy' in the same way as Scripture?
You seem to assume Christians have been more united than they've actually been. It's easy to look back and pick and choose what you agree with and try to present that as 'unified christianity.' I'm a FP and a follower of the Christ of the Bible. I also agree with much of what my fellow Christians have said, just not all.
What do you think Scripture is? And, what do you think FPs think it is? I have never noticed a difference in what futurists and preterists think Scripture is. Just curious why this is an issue with you.
@coper11 Well, the question is already answered among Christians. The question is not answered among FPs -- FPs obviously ASSUME Scripture is the 66 books we Christians appeal to. But FPs CAN'T assume this since they also claim 2,000 years of Christianity got so much wrong. They can't assume these same Christians got the Canon correct. Please tell me what and WHY the Bible is the Bible. Thanks
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking or why, but I'll play along. Scripture is God's holy Word as revealed through His inspired authors. It is inerrant in it's original form. It is our responsibility, through the Holy Spirit within us, to study it in order to understand His purpose and plan.
I never understood how one could see FP as cultic. It's focus is the pursuit of the truth of Scripture, and as you pointed out, it's individualistic at it's core. Those characteristics lead to a Berean approach and prevent a man centered, cultic mindset.
I came to realize not only that the church CAN be in error, but that she HAS been in error many times as she has attempted to develope and define where she stands doctrinally. That means I have no obligation to accept her teachings especially in the form that any particular historian offers as fact. History is subjective Scripture is reliable. I choose to pursue Scripture.
I think you underestimate the understanding FP's have concerning church history and the development of doctrines and the Scripture itself. I agree it goes to our presuppositions which is my point. I have been FP for about 10 years. I began as a premil/dispy 45 years ago then moved to reformed/amil 20 years ago.
I'm still open minded and I look forward to hearing a futurist argument, primarily from Scripture, that refutes preterism. Until then, the full preterist view makes the most sense. Arguing from tradition rather than Scripture only strengthens my convictions.
@coper11 I don't know how long you have been a FP, but I was one for 15 yrs. I understand the arguments. Here's the problem, you can't talk about "Scripture" until you define WHAT and WHY Scripture is scripture. You think I am arguing from "tradition". I certainly am NOT. I am arguing from where all beliefs MUST start: presupposition. FPs can't tell us what the Bible is and why yet they want to appeal to it. It is like discussing the Constitution with someone who can't tell you what it is.
I hear your "We must follow tradition" argument all the time but the scriptural argument to support futurism has been very weak. The principles of understanding the time frame references in the NT and of audience relevance are overwhelmingly in support of preterism, in my opinion.
Jesus established the NC which enables His people to think for themselves as they rely directly on Him. The system in which one man must depend on another for a relationship with God is gone. That's bad news for those who wish to control our minds, but it's liberty for all men.
We ALL lean on our own understanding. The question is: Is our understanding based on God's inspired Word or on the traditions of uninspired men? Why not pursue truth relying directly on God rather than on the filter of a myriad of opinions?
I find it sad but somewhat amusing that individuals like yourself think they can pass judgement as to whether another is even a Christian. Who do you people think you are? We are each in pursuit of truth as mere grains of sand on vast stretch of beach yet you think you can determine one's eternal destiny. What a shame. Find some humility!
@coper11 And I find it sad that you even think I was talking about your salvation. That is God's business only. But ideologically, hyperprets are no more "Christian" than would a person who was born in America who advocates communism would be ideologically American. Hyperprets aren't part of the community of saints. I never said anything about eternal destiny. Now, will you find some humility and repent of the false accusation?
@thekingdomcomedotcom If I misunderstood you and you are not questioning a full preterists standing before God, then yes I do ask that you forgive me for falsely accusing you. I thought when you said we are not Christians, that you were questioning our salvation. That's usually what that type of accusation means. I am a follower of Christ, however, I refuse to define that as following a particular version of church history. I believe I am responsible for understanding Scripture for myself.
@coper11 Thanks for the response coper and yes I forgive you. Something for you to consider; Did Jesus come to found a movement made up of disconnected radical individualists? Why then did He bother with picking certain people to be apostles? Why put a structure in place with elders? Why not just let each person "lean on his own understanding"?
@thekingdomcomedotcom Your statements indicate a misunderstanding of the body of Christ with regard to "structure". Elders were never meant to be positional authority figures. They are to oversee as servants and examples to those who are not "elders". We are all brethren with s singular master, Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus said the ecclesia was NOT to be and act as the heathen, lording it over one another. We are to lean on our own WALK with God in humility and faith.
@thekingdomcomedotcom All men are prone to error...just look at the bloody history of the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation. Certainly, not everything that needed "reformation" got reformed. We must correct errors in our understanding of faith and practice when discovered, but we are bound as members of Christ's body to do so according to the fruits of the Spirit that we profess indwells us. We must display patience, love, gentleness and goodness.
I'm not and have never been Church of Christ. And, the visible church has demonstrated her ability to misinterpret Scripture. Yes, the majority of the church has consistently held to a future return of Christ, but there remains the possibility that she has been in error. I believe her premise was off early on and most unfortunately followed.
@coper11 So, you like Preston believe you are more wise than, not just the majority of the Church, but in reality, ALL of the Church? You subscribe that God didn't sustain the basic understanding of eschatology? That not until Max King came along did anyone really understand? And you wonder why I say hyperpreterism is a cult???
This idea that there has been unity in regard to the church throughout history is fantasy. The church has been all over the place doctrinally including being corrupt from the top down. I'm convinced that Full Preterism is the accurate view because the Scriptures support it, not because of tradition.
@coper11 You have no idea what you're talking about. Whether we look @ pre-RC, RC, Syrian, Greek/East Orth, Protest/Reformed, Anabaptist, Modern Evang, Calvinistic, or Arminian -- ALL of these expressions of Christianity agree 100% with the exact 4 things that hyperpreterism denies.
1. Jesus yet to return.
2. Res of believers yet to be.
3. Judgmnt of wick/righteous yet to be.
4. End of sin & culmination of God's plan yet to be.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Brother, there wasn't even unity among the apostles! Peter had to be corrected by Paul of grievous hypocrisy before the brethren. When we cease walking in the faith, ANYONE can get it wrong and history shows MOST in the man-made positions of power and control DID get it wrong for CENTURIES. It is GLARINGLY incumbent upon each ONE of us in the body of Christ to become as the Bereans and to discover what ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM actually means.
@thekingdomcomedotcom The Spirit has corrected many of my own doctrine and practice errors, many of then due to erroneous doctrines handed down from men who had it wrong over the years. He continues to do so even to this day as I earnestly and humbly seek God's truth.
Just because many remain steeped in tradition and are content following what the majority decides is truth doesn't mean they are pursuing God's truth. Don had the courage to question the status quo and pursue the truth of Scripture apart from false traditions. Two principles apply: Reformed and always reforming, and Sola Scriptura.
@coper11 Um, the "church of christ" idea was RESTORATION, not Reformation. Don Preston's theological background claimed that the true Church and true Gospel went apostate and had to be Restored. The Reformers did NOT claim this. Preston has nothing to do with "reformed and always reforming". Don is neither Reformed or even a Christian.
See, this is one of the main issues with hyperpreterism; it redefines basics terms. Novice does NOT merely mean "new" but rather also connotes; "beginner", "inexperienced". Don may be an expert in the heresy of hyperpreterism but he is STILL a novice/inexperienced in Christianity. Don fell into this heresy because he tried to lean on his own understanding while he was a novice and now he remains a novice.
We were all new to theology at one time. However, if you are correct, we are all still novices since we once were. Do you see the absurdity in that? Just because we still hold to some of the principles we originally accepted as true doesn't mean we are still novices.
Novice simply means new. Don was at one time a novice. That was back when preterism was a new concept to him. Logically, after many years of studying and teaching the preterist view it is no longer new to him, so he is no longer a novice. Early on he agreed with the premise, now he agrees with the entire framework.
I can assure you that Don is no longer a novice. He has demonstrated a thorough understanding of God's Word including both Testaments. His arguments are sound, convincing and biblical. Those who are set on defending tradition can't come close to refuting him because he defends the Scriptures.
@coper11 Wait, if Don Preston was a novice in the days he embraced hyper-preterism, contrary to every other Christian, including his preacher father and his preacher school teachers -- AND Don is STILL teaching hyper-preterism, then yes, he is STILL A NOVICE...since that is what made him a novice in the first place.
@Starrjoneli -- Thanks for the interaction. It, along with some other invents in my life have inspired me to do a new series of videos. Look for them.
Once upon a time I was five years old. Some of the things I believed then were true. I still believe them. But I am NOT five years old any longer. And maybe once upon a time Don Preston was a novice. Some of the things he believed then, he still believes. And they may very well be true. So what did you prove?
@Starrjoneli Again, Don admits he was a novice and went from there to building upon his novice beliefs and has not changed from them. He is a expert in his heresy but has NEVER grown in the Christian Faith. -- He is STILL a novice and per scripture has no business teaching. 1 Tim 3:5-6
@thekingdomcomedotcom So you want me to believe that because YOU disagree with Don now, he is therefore still a novice? When you agreed with him, he was wise. Now YOU have changed YOUR mind and Don is wrong? And we're all just supposed to agree with you on this because you say so.
@Starrjoneli No I want you to understand that Don himself said he was a novice and has shown no place that he has changed his position from the days he admits he was a novice. Do you want me to believe you're not here to defend Don, since that is all you've done all the while admitting you don't really know that much about what he says/teaches?
@thekingdomcomedotcom I see. So, since you believed in God when you were a novice, if you have not changed that belief in God you are still a novice? Is that what you're saying?
@thekingdomcomedotcom The bottom line is, just because someone believes something today that he believed forty years ago, that does not make him a novice today or make what he believed forty years ago wrong. As I said, I believed in God when I was five years old. According to what you are saying, I should have long since got past that belief and be believing in something else by now. Otherwise, I'm still the novice I started out as. That makes no sense at all.
I know he does debate non-preterists. I don't know about preterists. I do not believe he is a coward or a con-man. I don't know anything about the racist/atheist comment. I guess you would have to take that up with him. I don't think we should be talking about him like that behind his back.
@Starrjoneli So you admit you are rather uninformed about Don's ACTUAL words and positions but instead you just arbitrarily say he is not a coward or a con-man. Why should anyone trust that you are honest with interpreting the Bible if you admit here you interpret Don without even knowing all the facts? I'm not talking behind his back and constantly take it up with him, he is just too cowardly to interact openly. I assure, Don has seen this video, so it is not "behind his back".
@thekingdomcomedotcom I didn't say he wasn't a coward or a con-man. I said I didn't believe he was. I also think you have not proven him to be so. I certainly am not going to take your word for it.
@Starrjoneli Again, what are your beliefs based on??? You told me already you have little knowledge about what Don actually has said, done and proposes. I have used his OWN WORDS in context here. I have interacted with Don for over 15 years. Even did a few podcasts with him while I was a FP. You need not take my word -- but at least be informed before you come defending a man you really know nothing about.
@thekingdomcomedotcom He doesn't need my defense. And I really am not here to defend him. I just wanted to say that your saying bad things about him doesn't change the truth. He is right or wrong no matter what YOU say about him. Talking about HIM doesn't change the word of God. He can be ugly or stupid or a con-man or a Democrat and it won't change the truth. So why talk about him at all? Teach the truth if you think you have it and maybe we'll learn from you. Talking about Don turns me off.
@Starrjoneli Well sorry but Scripture tells us Christians to EXPOSE men such as Don, Eph 5:11, Roman 16:17-18, Jude 1:3 which involves revealing, even by his OWN WORDS that Don is a novice and whether right or wrong, has no business even trying to teach the Bible. I'm sorry that a Christian doing what they are called to do "turns you off". But if you don't like talking about Don and his lies, maybe you shouldn't. Thanks
@thekingdomcomedotcom The Scriptures tell us to expose novices? Elders are not to be novices. Nothing is said about teachers not being novices. Besides, Don never said he WAS a novice. He had been to a Bible school. He had learned from the best he could find. And NOW he is a seasoned teacher. He is NOT a novice and nobody is supposed to EXPOSE NOVICES anyway.
@Starrjoneli Don is not an elder. And 1 Tim 3:5-6 certainly talks about novice teachers and how they aren't supposed to be promoted. Don told us he was fresh out of sem, that his preach dad didn't know how to answer basic biblical questions, and that his "bible school" was full of profs that were "uncertain". Don is a seasoned heretic advocating views he built on being a prideful, loner novice. We ARE to expose false teachers and that is what Don is.
@thekingdomcomedotcom YOU believe he is a novice. Don doesn't SAY he is a novice. He was once young and fresh out of seminary. He no longer is. YOU believe his doctrine is false so YOU want all of us to believe that and see Don as ignorant or, worse, a con-man. If that's how you try to teach truth, I guess you can. But, again, it would help us much more if you opened the Bible and showed us where Don is wrong.
Jesus' apostles were novices as well--fishermen, some of them. This video does nothing to refute Don Preson's actual teachings. The apostles' traditions are in the Bible. That is the place to go see for ourselves. What Don Preston says or what you say doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I would like to see you consider Preston's take on the word of God and refute his beliefs. That might be of some help. Criticizing the man himself does nothing to aid us.
@Starrjoneli So, you'd waste your time letting a known con-man pitch you a used car??? I'm not criticizing Don the man; I'm criticizing the FACT he admits he was a novice, taught by novices and fell into heresy.
@thekingdomcomedotcom How did "novice" become "con-man"? Preston was simply saying that his teachers did not understand eschatology. So he spent a lot of time studying it. Being a novice or studying a lot does not make a man right or wrong. Preston can be wrong and so can you, no matter how much either of you studies. So your video, in my opinion, is useless with regard to whether Preston's teaching is biblical. It would be more helpful if you dealt with Preston's doctrine and refuted it.
@Starrjoneli Preston is a con-man not for being a novice but for continuing to push his heresy. You said you wanted me to "consider Preston's take on the word of God". You do realize I WAS a "full pret" like Don for over 15 years. I already know his "take" and it is con because it tries to replace God's community with a new one. This video's focus is simple: Don admits he was a novice, taught by novices and fell into heresy and continues to push it today. Maybe read my website for more.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Are you saying you believe Preston pushes his beliefs knowing they are wrong? That seems to me the only way he could be a con-man. You say you believed as he did for 15 years. Were you a con-man for 15 years? Did you con people for 15 years with your heresy? Even if he is wrong, why is he now dishonest and a heretic just because YOU changed YOUR mind about it?
@Starrjoneli Well, he is and always was wrong in teaching hyperpreterism, and yes I was wrong too. I was a heretic and he STILL is a heretic. As for him being dishonest, it is because unlike in the early days people are now confronting hyperprets straight on. Don will not engage,. Don will not debate his fellow FP. He LIES in calling R.O.E. (a FP) racist and atheist for taking Don's teachings to their logical conclusions. Don is a con-man and a coward.
Furthermore, I believe you have twisted what Preston was saying. You have to know that he was not saying he is now a novice, and you have to know that he was not saying he doesn't appreciate tradition but rather that he is not going to base his beliefs on what others have believed. Would YOU?
@Starrjoneli Really? So you are going to reinterpret what Don said?? He clearly said he "doesn't worry about tradition, about creeds". I DO worry about if my faith is inline, not only with Scripture but ALSO with God's own sustained community of saints. I DON'T pretend it is "just me and my bible". Where does Don think the Bible came from? Why 66 books and no more or less. Don is a novice turned con-man.
@thekingdomcomedotcom I don't worry about traditions and creeds. They change from one religious group to another. The Catholics have one creed, the Baptists another. JW's have something different. Whose creed should we worry about? You admitted that the Pope is fallible. What makes him know more than Don or you or I? I'd rather stand before God with my own understanding than listen to a creed that changes on a dime. Refusing to follow man's creeds does NOT make one a con-man--it makes one smart.
@Starrjoneli Really? Do you know what the word "creed" or "credo" actually means? It means "belief". Are you saying you have no beliefs but rather "lean on your own understanding" and are "wise in your own eyes"? Prov 3:5-7 You are wrong about the UNIFIED eschatological belief of the Church. All historic expressions of the Church have agree 100% on the 4 basic eschatological beliefs -- unchanged. See PART 2
@thekingdomcomedotcom I don't believe you are right about this. Early Christians have different beliefs. Eusebius said: all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem–all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations;
@Starrjoneli PART 2 - Whether you look at pre-RC, RC, Greek Orth, Syrian, Reformed, Anabaptist, Mod Evagel, Calvinist, or Arminian -- ALL of these agree 100% on 4 things:
1. Jesus yet to return
2. Collective res yet to be
3. Judgmnt of wicked/righteous yet to be
4. End of sin and culmination of God's plan for earth yet to be
So you are spouting falsehoods just like novice and con-man Don Preston.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Just because all these people believe something, that does not make MY belief false. Their belief could just as easily be false as mine could be. They are just as fallible as I am. A majority does not determine truth. If it did, the Jews would have been right and Jesus wasn't the Messiah.
@Starrjoneli Okay wait, you DO follow the "creeds" of men -- you're own. Jesus came teaching, revealing, hand-picked apostles, sent them the Holy Spirit and set up the Church. Instead you want to compare Christ's Church to the "behind the veil of Moses"/"shadow and type" Jews. You want us to believe that the New Covenant ISN'T really the "better covenant". You want us to believe you and Don Preston can convey God's plan better than Jesus, the apostles, and the Holy Spirit. Is that "smart"??
@thekingdomcomedotcom And Origen said: "We do not deny, then, that the purificatory fire and the destruction of the world took place in order that evil might be swept away, and all things be renewed; for we assert that we have learned these things from the sacred books of the prophets.” So maybe YOU are the one going against the beliefs of the early Christians and the first creeds.
@Starrjoneli Actually no, the FP have been bastardizing this quote for some time. You must forget I WAS a FP for 15 years. Origen believed all of the 4 eschatological points I listed. Taking this quote and trying to imply he would support the hyperpret position is wrong. Historic Christianity, including guys like Calvin ALSO understood the significance of the AD70 events WITHOUT going hyper into heresy as FPs have done in their over-reaction to Dispensationalism.
@thekingdomcomedotcom It doesn't matter what Eusebius or Origen or anybody else thought. They could be right or they could be wrong. The truth is in the Bible. And Jesus said it was in the generation of people to whom He spoke that He would return.
@Starrjoneli First WHAT IS THE BIBLE? And why is it the Bible? What makes it the Bible? Secondly, your bring up Origen as if he supports hyperpret and now you toss him out when I show he didn't??? Lastly, The verse you allude to is Mt 24:34/Mk 13:30/Lk 21:32 says NOTHING about Jesus "returning". Indeed he was ABOUT TO "come" but as Dan 7:13/Mt 26:64 shows, He was coming before the Father/Ancient of Days -- not back to earth. See how the hyperprets twisted the text?
@thekingdomcomedotcom No, Jesus said He was coming in the clouds and gathering His elect in that generation. He said He was going to reward every man while some of them were still alive. I didn't toss Origen out. I was just showing you that creeds say all kinds of things so you can't trust them. And if we don't agree on what the Bible is, then of course we won't agree. But that does NOT make Don Preston a con-man or wrong about anything. That was your whole focus and it is groundless.
@Starrjoneli Did you even read Dan 7:13/Mt 26:64, Jesus coming on the clouds indeed -- but not a "return" the word you originally used. Coming on the clouds BEFORE the Father. Again, the 4 basic eschatological points are agree 100% by ALL of Christianity. Don is a con-man because he LIES and says things...well sort of like you are doing by claiming there has been no unified Christian position on the basics of eschatology. That's clearly a LIE. Con-men lie.
@thekingdomcomedotcom However He came, He came to reward and punish. There's no prophecy of another coming. And it's usually the minority that is right about anything. You and I won't agree on this. And I didn't come here to discuss that issue. I just think that if you want to prove Don wrong, that's fine. But putting him down doesn't change the truth. It just makes it look like you can't prove him wrong and all you can do is attack him and call him names. Is that how you want to do this?
@Starrjoneli Wait, I don't "put Don down", I demonstrate, from his OWN WORDS that he is a novice, taught by novices. I have not "attacked" him at all. Stating FACTS is not an attack. I have an entire website interacting with hyperpret. Do you know what it is? Or did you do any research, not only on Don by what I'm saying? Or did you just come here to defend Don no matter what. Is that how you do this?
@thekingdomcomedotcom I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what you say about Don. So what if he were a novice? Would that change the truth? No, not at all. He could even be a con-man and it wouldn't change the truth a bit. So why even talk about him? How does it help teach the truth to anybody? If he's teaching heresy, talk about that and why it's wrong. Help us see the truth. This video tells me nothing except that you think Don Preston is a novice. What does that mean to me? Nothing.
@Starrjoneli Wrong, I have not said "I think" Don is a novice, I have demonstrated from his OWN WORDS that he says he is a novice. If you don't care about this, I hope you never go to have surgery and say you don't care and it doesn't matter if the doctor is a novice. :-) I *AM* helping people to see the truth -- in this video, I'm simply pointing out that FP that follow Don and post his videos on their youtube channels like you -- are following admitted novices. That's what it means to you.
2. Their preacher father didn't know how to answer basic Christian doctrine
3. Their sem professors were uncertain about basic eschatology
That's a NOVICE. Of course Don continues from there, being a novice, building on his novice interpretations until he is deep into heresy because he was a novice and remains so today. Sure, he is an expert in his heresy but a novice in Christianity.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Well, when I was five, I believed in God. I was a complete novice. But I built on that. Is that heresy? No. So, again, you have proven nothing. It doesn't matter what Don was at one time. What matters is truth.
@Starrjoneli I KNOW what and why the Bible is the Bible -- hyperprets CAN'T really say what the Bible is and why. I mean your whole argument here has been that, basically God has not sustained the basic understanding of His plan. If He hasn't done that, what makes you think the thing you call "scripture" is actually God's Word. Maybe it is just a collection of "man-made" creeds??? See?
@reouch It wasn't Satan voice (have you heard Satan???), it was slowed down for effect. What is "classy" is that for over 20 years Don has been leading people into his radical, individualistic, "don't worry about" the collective community of the Christian Faith. Don is part of a cult and leading people into that cult.
None of those things have anything to do with preterism. You took them out of context and spun them in a way just to ridicule him. May God be your judge and my you reap what you sow.
@naulon1 Exactly, that's because this video isn't about preterism. Where do I claim it is???? It is about a novice teacher who has no business teaching. The context of the video is completely in focus. You just don't like it when your cult leaders are exposed. -- Eph 5:11
No sir, you are the one who has slandered Mr. Preston, pulled sound bites out of context and ridiculed him and haven't addressed a single thing about what he actually says. You are the one using cult like strategies to attack another person.
@naulon1 The quotes are IN CONTEXT. What are you a Clintonian "It depends what your definition of 'is' is"? The sound clips show the exact 4 things Preston said: (1) He was fresh out of sem. (2) His preacher dad was novice. (3) His sem profs were novices. (4) Don was "puffed up" & proud in saying "it didn't take very long" for him to fall into the heresy his father, his profs and ALL of Christianity didn't fall into. There is no "attack", just Don's OWN WORDS.
@naulon1 Um, simply presenting what a person says is not "ad hominem". And "slander" involves lying; again we are simply quoting Don Preston in his OWN WORDS saying he is a novice. You come here and like a cultic follower of Preston, defend him without caring about what he ACTUALLY says.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Preston didn't say he is a novice. He said he was fresh out of seminary--many, many years ago. Today he is certainly far from a novice.
@thekingdomcomedotcom Roderick did lie in the video, and openly misrepresented what Don said. In the Video, Don mentions going to Seminary, yet Roderick points out the CofC doesn't have Seminaries; yet where did Don say he attended a CofC Seminary?
@Eschatology101 um, in Don's "Morning Mucus" show on 10 18 2011, minute 00:45-47 he ADMITS the "seminary" he went to was really a "coc preacher school" Maybe you should go listen to it instead of spouting off.
LOL So have you been taking lessons in making asinine videos from the RedBeetle? Try dealing with Preterism either partial or full. This sort of childish nonsense impresses no one.
Blogrich55 3 weeks ago
Hey SuperRalph76, how about interacting with Don Preston's ACTUAL comments? Thanks
thekingdomcomedotcom 2 months ago
Really I should of just told you .......Jude 9. Your attack on this Godly man and his father should be repented of immediately for I pray the Lord turn you over to satan until you do.
SuperRalph76 2 months ago
If truth be told, you like most people ive seen, who get so defensive have no other recourse but to try to defame with clever trickery of scripture so falsely applied (deceivers). None and I mean none of your accusation towards Brother Preston are warranted by any scripture, Frankly, im against church history in this area too but not all areas as those who are on the defensive would so try to make it. And why? Because the Bible is against the traditional church in this area.......
SuperRalph76 2 months ago
Your not in the Spirit of our Lord Jesus to try to defame a mans character due to your opposed opinion. Jesus was an outcast, how should his followers differ? I've never met 2 futurists/traditionalist who ever agreed on everything in Matt 24! So how does that make Brother Preston any different? Cults are obvious. They introduce their own scripture among other things. None of these does Brother Preston do!
SuperRalph76 2 months ago
...contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3b ESV)
I have seen this used against FP as though Jude had the Presbyterian Church (USA) in mind.
However, 'the faith' for Jude was not subsequent doctrines that would eventually be delivered to the church over thousands of years by men with varying motives and opinions. 'The faith' is only found in God's inspired Word by those who seek Him.
coper11 3 months ago
I'm saying that I believe God has preserved His Word through the use of people no different than you or me. The focus should be on what GOD has done to preserve His Word, the Bible, not to equate traditions and doctrines of men with Scripture. Are you thinking that God has preserved so-called 'orthodoxy' in the same way as Scripture?
coper11 3 months ago
You seem to assume Christians have been more united than they've actually been. It's easy to look back and pick and choose what you agree with and try to present that as 'unified christianity.' I'm a FP and a follower of the Christ of the Bible. I also agree with much of what my fellow Christians have said, just not all.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Thanks coper11 but this doesn't answer the question. What is Scripture and why? Why the 66 books and no more and no less?
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
What do you think Scripture is? And, what do you think FPs think it is? I have never noticed a difference in what futurists and preterists think Scripture is. Just curious why this is an issue with you.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Well, the question is already answered among Christians. The question is not answered among FPs -- FPs obviously ASSUME Scripture is the 66 books we Christians appeal to. But FPs CAN'T assume this since they also claim 2,000 years of Christianity got so much wrong. They can't assume these same Christians got the Canon correct. Please tell me what and WHY the Bible is the Bible. Thanks
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking or why, but I'll play along. Scripture is God's holy Word as revealed through His inspired authors. It is inerrant in it's original form. It is our responsibility, through the Holy Spirit within us, to study it in order to understand His purpose and plan.
coper11 3 months ago
I never understood how one could see FP as cultic. It's focus is the pursuit of the truth of Scripture, and as you pointed out, it's individualistic at it's core. Those characteristics lead to a Berean approach and prevent a man centered, cultic mindset.
coper11 3 months ago
I came to realize not only that the church CAN be in error, but that she HAS been in error many times as she has attempted to develope and define where she stands doctrinally. That means I have no obligation to accept her teachings especially in the form that any particular historian offers as fact. History is subjective Scripture is reliable. I choose to pursue Scripture.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Again, please define what "Scripture" is and why. Thanks
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
I think you underestimate the understanding FP's have concerning church history and the development of doctrines and the Scripture itself. I agree it goes to our presuppositions which is my point. I have been FP for about 10 years. I began as a premil/dispy 45 years ago then moved to reformed/amil 20 years ago.
coper11 3 months ago
I'm still open minded and I look forward to hearing a futurist argument, primarily from Scripture, that refutes preterism. Until then, the full preterist view makes the most sense. Arguing from tradition rather than Scripture only strengthens my convictions.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 I don't know how long you have been a FP, but I was one for 15 yrs. I understand the arguments. Here's the problem, you can't talk about "Scripture" until you define WHAT and WHY Scripture is scripture. You think I am arguing from "tradition". I certainly am NOT. I am arguing from where all beliefs MUST start: presupposition. FPs can't tell us what the Bible is and why yet they want to appeal to it. It is like discussing the Constitution with someone who can't tell you what it is.
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
I hear your "We must follow tradition" argument all the time but the scriptural argument to support futurism has been very weak. The principles of understanding the time frame references in the NT and of audience relevance are overwhelmingly in support of preterism, in my opinion.
coper11 3 months ago
Jesus established the NC which enables His people to think for themselves as they rely directly on Him. The system in which one man must depend on another for a relationship with God is gone. That's bad news for those who wish to control our minds, but it's liberty for all men.
coper11 3 months ago
We ALL lean on our own understanding. The question is: Is our understanding based on God's inspired Word or on the traditions of uninspired men? Why not pursue truth relying directly on God rather than on the filter of a myriad of opinions?
promisesrkept 3 months ago
I find it sad but somewhat amusing that individuals like yourself think they can pass judgement as to whether another is even a Christian. Who do you people think you are? We are each in pursuit of truth as mere grains of sand on vast stretch of beach yet you think you can determine one's eternal destiny. What a shame. Find some humility!
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 And I find it sad that you even think I was talking about your salvation. That is God's business only. But ideologically, hyperprets are no more "Christian" than would a person who was born in America who advocates communism would be ideologically American. Hyperprets aren't part of the community of saints. I never said anything about eternal destiny. Now, will you find some humility and repent of the false accusation?
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom If I misunderstood you and you are not questioning a full preterists standing before God, then yes I do ask that you forgive me for falsely accusing you. I thought when you said we are not Christians, that you were questioning our salvation. That's usually what that type of accusation means. I am a follower of Christ, however, I refuse to define that as following a particular version of church history. I believe I am responsible for understanding Scripture for myself.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Thanks for the response coper and yes I forgive you. Something for you to consider; Did Jesus come to found a movement made up of disconnected radical individualists? Why then did He bother with picking certain people to be apostles? Why put a structure in place with elders? Why not just let each person "lean on his own understanding"?
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Your statements indicate a misunderstanding of the body of Christ with regard to "structure". Elders were never meant to be positional authority figures. They are to oversee as servants and examples to those who are not "elders". We are all brethren with s singular master, Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus said the ecclesia was NOT to be and act as the heathen, lording it over one another. We are to lean on our own WALK with God in humility and faith.
KingdomChristian 1 month ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom All men are prone to error...just look at the bloody history of the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation. Certainly, not everything that needed "reformation" got reformed. We must correct errors in our understanding of faith and practice when discovered, but we are bound as members of Christ's body to do so according to the fruits of the Spirit that we profess indwells us. We must display patience, love, gentleness and goodness.
KingdomChristian 1 month ago
I'm not and have never been Church of Christ. And, the visible church has demonstrated her ability to misinterpret Scripture. Yes, the majority of the church has consistently held to a future return of Christ, but there remains the possibility that she has been in error. I believe her premise was off early on and most unfortunately followed.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 So, you like Preston believe you are more wise than, not just the majority of the Church, but in reality, ALL of the Church? You subscribe that God didn't sustain the basic understanding of eschatology? That not until Max King came along did anyone really understand? And you wonder why I say hyperpreterism is a cult???
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
This idea that there has been unity in regard to the church throughout history is fantasy. The church has been all over the place doctrinally including being corrupt from the top down. I'm convinced that Full Preterism is the accurate view because the Scriptures support it, not because of tradition.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 You have no idea what you're talking about. Whether we look @ pre-RC, RC, Syrian, Greek/East Orth, Protest/Reformed, Anabaptist, Modern Evang, Calvinistic, or Arminian -- ALL of these expressions of Christianity agree 100% with the exact 4 things that hyperpreterism denies.
1. Jesus yet to return.
2. Res of believers yet to be.
3. Judgmnt of wick/righteous yet to be.
4. End of sin & culmination of God's plan yet to be.
You are following Don's deluded novice mind.
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Brother, there wasn't even unity among the apostles! Peter had to be corrected by Paul of grievous hypocrisy before the brethren. When we cease walking in the faith, ANYONE can get it wrong and history shows MOST in the man-made positions of power and control DID get it wrong for CENTURIES. It is GLARINGLY incumbent upon each ONE of us in the body of Christ to become as the Bereans and to discover what ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM actually means.
KingdomChristian 1 month ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom The Spirit has corrected many of my own doctrine and practice errors, many of then due to erroneous doctrines handed down from men who had it wrong over the years. He continues to do so even to this day as I earnestly and humbly seek God's truth.
KingdomChristian 1 month ago
Just because many remain steeped in tradition and are content following what the majority decides is truth doesn't mean they are pursuing God's truth. Don had the courage to question the status quo and pursue the truth of Scripture apart from false traditions. Two principles apply: Reformed and always reforming, and Sola Scriptura.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Um, the "church of christ" idea was RESTORATION, not Reformation. Don Preston's theological background claimed that the true Church and true Gospel went apostate and had to be Restored. The Reformers did NOT claim this. Preston has nothing to do with "reformed and always reforming". Don is neither Reformed or even a Christian.
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
See, this is one of the main issues with hyperpreterism; it redefines basics terms. Novice does NOT merely mean "new" but rather also connotes; "beginner", "inexperienced". Don may be an expert in the heresy of hyperpreterism but he is STILL a novice/inexperienced in Christianity. Don fell into this heresy because he tried to lean on his own understanding while he was a novice and now he remains a novice.
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
We were all new to theology at one time. However, if you are correct, we are all still novices since we once were. Do you see the absurdity in that? Just because we still hold to some of the principles we originally accepted as true doesn't mean we are still novices.
coper11 3 months ago
Novice simply means new. Don was at one time a novice. That was back when preterism was a new concept to him. Logically, after many years of studying and teaching the preterist view it is no longer new to him, so he is no longer a novice. Early on he agreed with the premise, now he agrees with the entire framework.
coper11 3 months ago
I can assure you that Don is no longer a novice. He has demonstrated a thorough understanding of God's Word including both Testaments. His arguments are sound, convincing and biblical. Those who are set on defending tradition can't come close to refuting him because he defends the Scriptures.
coper11 3 months ago
@coper11 Wait, if Don Preston was a novice in the days he embraced hyper-preterism, contrary to every other Christian, including his preacher father and his preacher school teachers -- AND Don is STILL teaching hyper-preterism, then yes, he is STILL A NOVICE...since that is what made him a novice in the first place.
thekingdomcomedotcom 3 months ago
@Starrjoneli -- Thanks for the interaction. It, along with some other invents in my life have inspired me to do a new series of videos. Look for them.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
Once upon a time I was five years old. Some of the things I believed then were true. I still believe them. But I am NOT five years old any longer. And maybe once upon a time Don Preston was a novice. Some of the things he believed then, he still believes. And they may very well be true. So what did you prove?
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Again, Don admits he was a novice and went from there to building upon his novice beliefs and has not changed from them. He is a expert in his heresy but has NEVER grown in the Christian Faith. -- He is STILL a novice and per scripture has no business teaching. 1 Tim 3:5-6
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom So you want me to believe that because YOU disagree with Don now, he is therefore still a novice? When you agreed with him, he was wise. Now YOU have changed YOUR mind and Don is wrong? And we're all just supposed to agree with you on this because you say so.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli No I want you to understand that Don himself said he was a novice and has shown no place that he has changed his position from the days he admits he was a novice. Do you want me to believe you're not here to defend Don, since that is all you've done all the while admitting you don't really know that much about what he says/teaches?
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I see. So, since you believed in God when you were a novice, if you have not changed that belief in God you are still a novice? Is that what you're saying?
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
And I know a lot about what Don teaches. I said I don't know anything about his calling someone a liar or an atheist.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom The bottom line is, just because someone believes something today that he believed forty years ago, that does not make him a novice today or make what he believed forty years ago wrong. As I said, I believed in God when I was five years old. According to what you are saying, I should have long since got past that belief and be believing in something else by now. Otherwise, I'm still the novice I started out as. That makes no sense at all.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
I know he does debate non-preterists. I don't know about preterists. I do not believe he is a coward or a con-man. I don't know anything about the racist/atheist comment. I guess you would have to take that up with him. I don't think we should be talking about him like that behind his back.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli So you admit you are rather uninformed about Don's ACTUAL words and positions but instead you just arbitrarily say he is not a coward or a con-man. Why should anyone trust that you are honest with interpreting the Bible if you admit here you interpret Don without even knowing all the facts? I'm not talking behind his back and constantly take it up with him, he is just too cowardly to interact openly. I assure, Don has seen this video, so it is not "behind his back".
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I didn't say he wasn't a coward or a con-man. I said I didn't believe he was. I also think you have not proven him to be so. I certainly am not going to take your word for it.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Again, what are your beliefs based on??? You told me already you have little knowledge about what Don actually has said, done and proposes. I have used his OWN WORDS in context here. I have interacted with Don for over 15 years. Even did a few podcasts with him while I was a FP. You need not take my word -- but at least be informed before you come defending a man you really know nothing about.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom He doesn't need my defense. And I really am not here to defend him. I just wanted to say that your saying bad things about him doesn't change the truth. He is right or wrong no matter what YOU say about him. Talking about HIM doesn't change the word of God. He can be ugly or stupid or a con-man or a Democrat and it won't change the truth. So why talk about him at all? Teach the truth if you think you have it and maybe we'll learn from you. Talking about Don turns me off.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Well sorry but Scripture tells us Christians to EXPOSE men such as Don, Eph 5:11, Roman 16:17-18, Jude 1:3 which involves revealing, even by his OWN WORDS that Don is a novice and whether right or wrong, has no business even trying to teach the Bible. I'm sorry that a Christian doing what they are called to do "turns you off". But if you don't like talking about Don and his lies, maybe you shouldn't. Thanks
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom The Scriptures tell us to expose novices? Elders are not to be novices. Nothing is said about teachers not being novices. Besides, Don never said he WAS a novice. He had been to a Bible school. He had learned from the best he could find. And NOW he is a seasoned teacher. He is NOT a novice and nobody is supposed to EXPOSE NOVICES anyway.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Don is not an elder. And 1 Tim 3:5-6 certainly talks about novice teachers and how they aren't supposed to be promoted. Don told us he was fresh out of sem, that his preach dad didn't know how to answer basic biblical questions, and that his "bible school" was full of profs that were "uncertain". Don is a seasoned heretic advocating views he built on being a prideful, loner novice. We ARE to expose false teachers and that is what Don is.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom YOU believe he is a novice. Don doesn't SAY he is a novice. He was once young and fresh out of seminary. He no longer is. YOU believe his doctrine is false so YOU want all of us to believe that and see Don as ignorant or, worse, a con-man. If that's how you try to teach truth, I guess you can. But, again, it would help us much more if you opened the Bible and showed us where Don is wrong.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
Jesus' apostles were novices as well--fishermen, some of them. This video does nothing to refute Don Preson's actual teachings. The apostles' traditions are in the Bible. That is the place to go see for ourselves. What Don Preston says or what you say doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I would like to see you consider Preston's take on the word of God and refute his beliefs. That might be of some help. Criticizing the man himself does nothing to aid us.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli So, you'd waste your time letting a known con-man pitch you a used car??? I'm not criticizing Don the man; I'm criticizing the FACT he admits he was a novice, taught by novices and fell into heresy.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom How did "novice" become "con-man"? Preston was simply saying that his teachers did not understand eschatology. So he spent a lot of time studying it. Being a novice or studying a lot does not make a man right or wrong. Preston can be wrong and so can you, no matter how much either of you studies. So your video, in my opinion, is useless with regard to whether Preston's teaching is biblical. It would be more helpful if you dealt with Preston's doctrine and refuted it.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Preston is a con-man not for being a novice but for continuing to push his heresy. You said you wanted me to "consider Preston's take on the word of God". You do realize I WAS a "full pret" like Don for over 15 years. I already know his "take" and it is con because it tries to replace God's community with a new one. This video's focus is simple: Don admits he was a novice, taught by novices and fell into heresy and continues to push it today. Maybe read my website for more.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Are you saying you believe Preston pushes his beliefs knowing they are wrong? That seems to me the only way he could be a con-man. You say you believed as he did for 15 years. Were you a con-man for 15 years? Did you con people for 15 years with your heresy? Even if he is wrong, why is he now dishonest and a heretic just because YOU changed YOUR mind about it?
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Well, he is and always was wrong in teaching hyperpreterism, and yes I was wrong too. I was a heretic and he STILL is a heretic. As for him being dishonest, it is because unlike in the early days people are now confronting hyperprets straight on. Don will not engage,. Don will not debate his fellow FP. He LIES in calling R.O.E. (a FP) racist and atheist for taking Don's teachings to their logical conclusions. Don is a con-man and a coward.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
Furthermore, I believe you have twisted what Preston was saying. You have to know that he was not saying he is now a novice, and you have to know that he was not saying he doesn't appreciate tradition but rather that he is not going to base his beliefs on what others have believed. Would YOU?
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Really? So you are going to reinterpret what Don said?? He clearly said he "doesn't worry about tradition, about creeds". I DO worry about if my faith is inline, not only with Scripture but ALSO with God's own sustained community of saints. I DON'T pretend it is "just me and my bible". Where does Don think the Bible came from? Why 66 books and no more or less. Don is a novice turned con-man.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I don't worry about traditions and creeds. They change from one religious group to another. The Catholics have one creed, the Baptists another. JW's have something different. Whose creed should we worry about? You admitted that the Pope is fallible. What makes him know more than Don or you or I? I'd rather stand before God with my own understanding than listen to a creed that changes on a dime. Refusing to follow man's creeds does NOT make one a con-man--it makes one smart.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Really? Do you know what the word "creed" or "credo" actually means? It means "belief". Are you saying you have no beliefs but rather "lean on your own understanding" and are "wise in your own eyes"? Prov 3:5-7 You are wrong about the UNIFIED eschatological belief of the Church. All historic expressions of the Church have agree 100% on the 4 basic eschatological beliefs -- unchanged. See PART 2
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I don't believe you are right about this. Early Christians have different beliefs. Eusebius said: all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem–all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations;
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli PART 2 - Whether you look at pre-RC, RC, Greek Orth, Syrian, Reformed, Anabaptist, Mod Evagel, Calvinist, or Arminian -- ALL of these agree 100% on 4 things:
1. Jesus yet to return
2. Collective res yet to be
3. Judgmnt of wicked/righteous yet to be
4. End of sin and culmination of God's plan for earth yet to be
So you are spouting falsehoods just like novice and con-man Don Preston.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Just because all these people believe something, that does not make MY belief false. Their belief could just as easily be false as mine could be. They are just as fallible as I am. A majority does not determine truth. If it did, the Jews would have been right and Jesus wasn't the Messiah.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Okay wait, you DO follow the "creeds" of men -- you're own. Jesus came teaching, revealing, hand-picked apostles, sent them the Holy Spirit and set up the Church. Instead you want to compare Christ's Church to the "behind the veil of Moses"/"shadow and type" Jews. You want us to believe that the New Covenant ISN'T really the "better covenant". You want us to believe you and Don Preston can convey God's plan better than Jesus, the apostles, and the Holy Spirit. Is that "smart"??
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I don't know what you mean by this. I believe in the better covenant. I just believe it's already here.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom And Origen said: "We do not deny, then, that the purificatory fire and the destruction of the world took place in order that evil might be swept away, and all things be renewed; for we assert that we have learned these things from the sacred books of the prophets.” So maybe YOU are the one going against the beliefs of the early Christians and the first creeds.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Actually no, the FP have been bastardizing this quote for some time. You must forget I WAS a FP for 15 years. Origen believed all of the 4 eschatological points I listed. Taking this quote and trying to imply he would support the hyperpret position is wrong. Historic Christianity, including guys like Calvin ALSO understood the significance of the AD70 events WITHOUT going hyper into heresy as FPs have done in their over-reaction to Dispensationalism.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom It doesn't matter what Eusebius or Origen or anybody else thought. They could be right or they could be wrong. The truth is in the Bible. And Jesus said it was in the generation of people to whom He spoke that He would return.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli First WHAT IS THE BIBLE? And why is it the Bible? What makes it the Bible? Secondly, your bring up Origen as if he supports hyperpret and now you toss him out when I show he didn't??? Lastly, The verse you allude to is Mt 24:34/Mk 13:30/Lk 21:32 says NOTHING about Jesus "returning". Indeed he was ABOUT TO "come" but as Dan 7:13/Mt 26:64 shows, He was coming before the Father/Ancient of Days -- not back to earth. See how the hyperprets twisted the text?
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom No, Jesus said He was coming in the clouds and gathering His elect in that generation. He said He was going to reward every man while some of them were still alive. I didn't toss Origen out. I was just showing you that creeds say all kinds of things so you can't trust them. And if we don't agree on what the Bible is, then of course we won't agree. But that does NOT make Don Preston a con-man or wrong about anything. That was your whole focus and it is groundless.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Did you even read Dan 7:13/Mt 26:64, Jesus coming on the clouds indeed -- but not a "return" the word you originally used. Coming on the clouds BEFORE the Father. Again, the 4 basic eschatological points are agree 100% by ALL of Christianity. Don is a con-man because he LIES and says things...well sort of like you are doing by claiming there has been no unified Christian position on the basics of eschatology. That's clearly a LIE. Con-men lie.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom However He came, He came to reward and punish. There's no prophecy of another coming. And it's usually the minority that is right about anything. You and I won't agree on this. And I didn't come here to discuss that issue. I just think that if you want to prove Don wrong, that's fine. But putting him down doesn't change the truth. It just makes it look like you can't prove him wrong and all you can do is attack him and call him names. Is that how you want to do this?
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Wait, I don't "put Don down", I demonstrate, from his OWN WORDS that he is a novice, taught by novices. I have not "attacked" him at all. Stating FACTS is not an attack. I have an entire website interacting with hyperpret. Do you know what it is? Or did you do any research, not only on Don by what I'm saying? Or did you just come here to defend Don no matter what. Is that how you do this?
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what you say about Don. So what if he were a novice? Would that change the truth? No, not at all. He could even be a con-man and it wouldn't change the truth a bit. So why even talk about him? How does it help teach the truth to anybody? If he's teaching heresy, talk about that and why it's wrong. Help us see the truth. This video tells me nothing except that you think Don Preston is a novice. What does that mean to me? Nothing.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli Wrong, I have not said "I think" Don is a novice, I have demonstrated from his OWN WORDS that he says he is a novice. If you don't care about this, I hope you never go to have surgery and say you don't care and it doesn't matter if the doctor is a novice. :-) I *AM* helping people to see the truth -- in this video, I'm simply pointing out that FP that follow Don and post his videos on their youtube channels like you -- are following admitted novices. That's what it means to you.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom You are misrepresenting what Don said. He did NOT say he is a novice.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli What do you call a person who says:
1. They were fresh out of "seminary"
2. Their preacher father didn't know how to answer basic Christian doctrine
3. Their sem professors were uncertain about basic eschatology
That's a NOVICE. Of course Don continues from there, being a novice, building on his novice interpretations until he is deep into heresy because he was a novice and remains so today. Sure, he is an expert in his heresy but a novice in Christianity.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Well, when I was five, I believed in God. I was a complete novice. But I built on that. Is that heresy? No. So, again, you have proven nothing. It doesn't matter what Don was at one time. What matters is truth.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@Starrjoneli I KNOW what and why the Bible is the Bible -- hyperprets CAN'T really say what the Bible is and why. I mean your whole argument here has been that, basically God has not sustained the basic understanding of His plan. If He hasn't done that, what makes you think the thing you call "scripture" is actually God's Word. Maybe it is just a collection of "man-made" creeds??? See?
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
I am addressing the message, and the message from Preston himself that he is a novice.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
Typical.....can´t go after the message.- You have to slander the messenger. How childish!!
alexander76rw 4 months ago
That was pretty goofy.
Nice touch with the use of Satan voice, CLASSY!
reouch 4 months ago
@reouch It wasn't Satan voice (have you heard Satan???), it was slowed down for effect. What is "classy" is that for over 20 years Don has been leading people into his radical, individualistic, "don't worry about" the collective community of the Christian Faith. Don is part of a cult and leading people into that cult.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
None of those things have anything to do with preterism. You took them out of context and spun them in a way just to ridicule him. May God be your judge and my you reap what you sow.
naulon1 4 months ago
@naulon1 Exactly, that's because this video isn't about preterism. Where do I claim it is???? It is about a novice teacher who has no business teaching. The context of the video is completely in focus. You just don't like it when your cult leaders are exposed. -- Eph 5:11
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
No sir, you are the one who has slandered Mr. Preston, pulled sound bites out of context and ridiculed him and haven't addressed a single thing about what he actually says. You are the one using cult like strategies to attack another person.
naulon1 4 months ago
@naulon1 The quotes are IN CONTEXT. What are you a Clintonian "It depends what your definition of 'is' is"? The sound clips show the exact 4 things Preston said: (1) He was fresh out of sem. (2) His preacher dad was novice. (3) His sem profs were novices. (4) Don was "puffed up" & proud in saying "it didn't take very long" for him to fall into the heresy his father, his profs and ALL of Christianity didn't fall into. There is no "attack", just Don's OWN WORDS.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
There is no "end times" or "end of the world" anywhere in the bible.
tygew 4 months ago
Ad hominem attack. Not loving and extremely slanderous.
naulon1 4 months ago
@naulon1 Um, simply presenting what a person says is not "ad hominem". And "slander" involves lying; again we are simply quoting Don Preston in his OWN WORDS saying he is a novice. You come here and like a cultic follower of Preston, defend him without caring about what he ACTUALLY says.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Preston didn't say he is a novice. He said he was fresh out of seminary--many, many years ago. Today he is certainly far from a novice.
Starrjoneli 4 months ago
@thekingdomcomedotcom Roderick did lie in the video, and openly misrepresented what Don said. In the Video, Don mentions going to Seminary, yet Roderick points out the CofC doesn't have Seminaries; yet where did Don say he attended a CofC Seminary?
Eschatology101 4 months ago
@Eschatology101 um, in Don's "Morning Mucus" show on 10 18 2011, minute 00:45-47 he ADMITS the "seminary" he went to was really a "coc preacher school" Maybe you should go listen to it instead of spouting off.
thekingdomcomedotcom 4 months ago