And no, everything is not predetermined. However, there is no free will either. Meaning, if you were to restart your life, it would certainly play out differently every time. Quantum mechanics, dude
The marble thing was almost true but not exactly true. Even the most powerful computer ever would not be able to calculate the position of the marbles into any substantial future. Marbles are made out of atoms and on atomic scale there is the uncertainty principle. Study some physics, its 1000 times more interesting than psychology
Btw.. I do believe we have free will.. I cannot prove it.. I just believe it in my gut as truly and deeply as I believe my gut when it tells me I'm hungry. To the core of my very being.
Well.. the subject of chance is a sentral part of physics... Determinism can neither be proven nor disproven logically.. just like the subject of God. Its like trying to prove something with itself.. Thats why people go mad.
As long as illusion of free will is FELT, and we are able to USE it, we have responsibility. If consciousness is result of matter, there's no way free will can exist. If the most inner subject in us is not a result of matter, we may have free will according to matter, but still not totally free will. Of curse these are only my assumptions.
It's not very cool nowadays to think that consciousness is base for everything, but that's how I see it.
What is your definition of decency with all respect? I don't agree with your chaplain's approach as you describe it but I must ask what your standard of decency actually is. I won't make any further comment until an answer has been provided.
you should never ask, "what do you think" unless you want an answer. One dimensionally thinking, you are right. but there is more dimensions than one.
I would say that we don't have a free will from the moment tthat we live in a communinty. Bet you better just don't think off that then you just get depressed. We can make our own dicisions, but somehow we still can't do anything we want .
I noticed that u didnt't say anything about the law- in response to the chaplain of your high school-
if you were to go out and just kill people you would be prosecuted- so perhaps you as you say, that you as a person feel the need to do good and want to be decent to other people- this may be due to your up-bringing or consequentialist view - the selfish gene as you don't want to go to prison etc.
I noticed that u didnt't say anything about the law- in response to the chaplain of your high school-
if you were to go out and just kill people you would be prosecuted- so perhaps you as you say, that you as a person feel the need to do good and want to be decent to other people- this may be due to your up-bringing or consequentialist view - the selfish gene as you don't want to go to prison etc.
Everything is pre-determined, because every event is a consequence of some previous event. But no human can actually see this, because we're looking from a subjective standpoint - being part of the whole chain. So, even if I'm not truly free, as long as I have the surprise, that's good enough for me. That's why I don't understand people who visit fortune-tellers - even if you believe in that kind of thing, why would you want to spoil the fun?
Sometimes I think about this topic in terms of animal behavior. If you look through a book about how to choose your first puppy, you would read that some breeds of dogs are better with children, some tend to be very protective, etc. Pit bills, for instance, are known to be aggressive. However, we sometimes meet pit bulls who are very friendly because they were well-socialized as pups. So how much of OUR personality is based on genetics, and how much is based on environment? Or free will? Hmm...
i think that what makes us human is the ability to be unpredictable. Without humans, or even life, every movement in the universe could be calculated, as they follow specific rules. We, as humans, are both rational and irrational. Our movements can't be calculated as easily, or at all. The ability to be unpredictable, the spanner in the works of these calculations, is what I think makes being human so special
Philosophy <3 this is potentially the most interesting subject I've delved into this year! It does seem that indeed we only have the illusion of free will as there is insufficient evidence to flaw the determinist principle, however the people don't like the idea that there is no free will so they still choose to reject this.
Personally, I share your point of view - we only live once so why take a fatalistic approach to life? Even if my life is predetermined I'm still living and doing good :) x
Although mildly offensive (on my part), i can see free will being as something obtained or achieved once an individual has learned to supress various external/internal influence, and focus on a more clear reality of what is most basically needed for life, in every detailed strata of a person. For instance, using your example of the person going out to get food from a restaurant. Indeed this type or "reaction" is a conditioned response, or a sort of "developed instinct".
Even with things like urges influencing what we do, we still choose to do them. If you go down the shops because you are hungry, it is still your choice and excising freewill.
We are unpredictable even with certain variables put in place. You can't know for sure what someone is going to do untill they do it, because they always have the choice to change their minds, thanks to they're freewill.
@106Tess106 Here is a question. (Not typed with any malice whatsoever. just curious.) Do you think it is wrong to punish people on their tendencies? ie. prison for murderers. If not, which would be very scary, is it wrong to take precautionary measures or even stereotype in order to seemingly protect oneself? Reply if you want.
stephen pikner wrote a book a few years back called "the blank slate" when he tackles this issue. hard to disagree with his persepctive based on objective reasoning.
We actually do react before we think, so no free will there. It is the thinking that justifies whether to reject it. And with the right composition of brain chemicals, we'll be able to justify our next actions rationally. Any imbalance of it, or defect of the brain hardware will result in abnormal actions. My apology for this amateurish rendition of his words lols. But neat huh? Any comments? :)
Yay! I love this subject ^^. I've read it once in a book on psychology (My Brain Made Me Do It). Interesting book, but I can't say I understand everything :\. I just pick it up out of curiosity, (I'm an accounting student). There's this interesting idea developed based on experiments which prob explains why we think we have free will over a certain extent. I don't remember it too well, but this is his explanation.
which would be what is considered to be a parallel universe. and something that reaches an even larger view would be the multiverse which would consist of varying universes with differing laws of physics.
I think I agree with Nick0062..I think every event and conscious decision in our universe is subject to and can be explained by cause and effect. There is something I have learned about in physics that directly relates to higher dimensions and such a thing as a probability space which is the infinite amount of varying large or minute decisions we may "make" in our conscious lives and every possible different in any way universe exists in a place we cant get to from here, which would be what a
I understand what you're trying to say. I went through this thought process a while back and I came to the same conclusion - every outcome is predetermined. I may think that I have free will in posting this comment but it was an inevitability from the moment I was born because my personality, world experience, emotional persona, mental dexterity e.t.c were always going to lead me to watch this video, think the same things I just have and write these very words.
Wow. I can't believe that I was at vidcon and I didn't say "hi" to you. (I think I did see you though, you were talking to some chick about roads in the UK or something ?) Of course I just started watching our videos and I'm glad because they really are wonderful! Thanks again!
Very interesting and thought provoking. I can see why thinking about it in great great detail could be quite distressing. It's certainly got me pondering! I personally think it totally depends on the way you look at it, and there's no real set answer. I believe as long as I'm able to experience things to make me feel happy and content with my life, that's enough free will for me :)
This might sound really weird but I love the way you move your lips.. you talk from one side of your mouth, it's sooo hot.. and you have really pretty eyes and great skin :) If you weren't so intelligent I'd beg you to become a model so you'd be everywhere.. but you're gonna be a star one way or another.. I mean I know you didn't record and edit 5mins of footage about your views on free will for some random girl to comment on how you look, so apologies for that, but, wow..lol
I believe that we have free will up to a point, we are moulded to a degree by our parents and others around us. So our decisions in life are down to how we have been affected by others up until then. I also believe that these decisions are controlled (like you showed with the box and marbles) the marbles were free to move about inside the box, but they were restricted. There's only so much a person is capable of doing, and that capability is different for everyone. :)
Read Kurt Vonnegut's novel "TimeQuake." After the time quake, eveyone goes back in time (10 or 15 years -- I can't remember how many). They no longer have free will. Each person must re-live their life for the next 10 years the same way. If they made a huge mistake -- they had to re-do it, again. No free will. When they finally get to the point of the main time -- people become apathetic. They no longer take action. There are car wrecks. Crazy. REad it.
This was such an interesting video. I am currently doing a Psychology degree, we haven't gone into free will but there is a lot of research that does suggest we don't have free will. However I believe we do have free will (purely from my religious beliefs) but I can definitely see where people come from. I accept we do have a level of biological determinism but in regards to moral choices I think we do have free will.
You did a great job of explaining this in an accessible way. Like you said, this kind of thing is very difficult to convey through words alone. I think this is one of the most interesting questions we can ask. In the end, I think I agree with you. Free will does seem to be an illusion, but that shouldn't have any impact on the way we live our lives.
I just thought, and this is probably not going to make sense, but your free will would not pre-determine your entire life would it? There are and endless number of external factors that could or could not happen which may in turn cause you to do something depending on whether they do happen or not
You have successed in inspiring, I am going to research about free will now, will be published at the swedish site "Bilddagboken.se" of the user name Felz if you want to be updated.
Myles, you inspire me, I will now set a goal to complete high school and go to a college. Thank-You.. And when I complete my achievement I will be sure to comment on your video and give you a huge thanks! I love you dude!
Well, yeah free will is real, if not, I seem pretty happy with my decisions, I don't mind not having it, but the matrix is just gay. But wait, does that mean your 'matrix' programmed you to make this video?
you perfectly phrased my personal belief that "in theory, everything is predetermined" because on a molcular level, all particles only move following specific natural laws of motion and energy and no external intelligence influences them, so therefore everything happens the way it happens and it could not have happened any other way. free will is an illusion or a general term to describe human intelligence, which in fact is nothing more than a collection of chemical reactions
(part3) up can change things in the brain around, then add the vast images we perceive at around 70 frames per second, the things we smell, all 5 (maybe 6) sences... It creates an uncalculatable equasion we know as life. And even if you could calculate it (which you can't) all it would prove is that the human brain has natural responces, the trouble is that's assuming there is no soul... but there might be, so in the end it's all arguing semantics, But I'm 4 free will; It's less depressing :)
(part2) The reason I believe in free will is that the world is too complex for our brains to have everything predetermined. There's talk that a supercomputer with a virtual brain cloned from a human with cloned virtual experiences would make the same choices in the same position as a human thus negating free will.. however our brains just aren't that complex. There are trillions of connections in the brain, and what electricity goes where is based on what we eat, how we exercise, even standing
Love the video, Free will is a hard one, and a very interesting topic... but I think in the end it's all arguing semantics, because even if we do create a super computer programed to be "human" and it seems to do all the crazy things we do, it still wouldn't prove if we had free will or not... weather we're souls controlling a body or predestined to make the choices we make. In the end I'd say we do have free will, because we can make choices... from suicide to what movie to watch tonight.
@lvlidnight3clipse I haven't watched the video recently, but wasn't the super computer to predict the future by considering all the possible variables that result in what happens?
I will now exercise my illusory free will by making a seemingly random psychology joke: Pavlov rings my bell. There. I've done it. Suck on that, Freud!
Agreed. Everything's been done before, will be done again, and is being done currently. Free will is a possibility, although that possibility is counterweighted against the world being predetermined.
Even if we flip a coin, total chance, as it seems to be, can never predict which will land. The guess is only that, a guess, a 50-50 chance. Was the coin landing on heads pre-determined? Was landing on tails pre-determined?
It wouldn't let me put "nothing" and post, but if I had done it that way you would have never known. Just kind of feel like backspacing and trying again... if that answers your question?
We are compelled to reply to these videos against our will. A computer model of how marbles react might be able to predict the path of the marble when the surface and atmostpheric conditions are consistant but marbles react differently on different surfaces and in different enviroments. We are about programing and not all of us are aware of where our programming comes from..but we program ourselves..the people we freind the things watch, read and listen to.. that makes us who and what we are.
you are actually moving at great speed around the Earth, around the Sun, around the Milky Way, and through the universe. Now they are coming with another theory that this is a separate universe with all its galaxies and quasars,but there are other Universes within this cosmos. Prophesy is a vision of the future that will be and before you were born every hair on your head was counted.and the end of every man is no secret not known.
i think that just about sums up why the motion of the marbles is actually random and not predictable at all, form a quantum prospective anyway. If all mater that has a momentum P haw a wave function then we have to obey the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
I think how a person reacts to a given situation is based on his/her conditioning or how they interpret prior life-experiences. Things, i believe, that are for most part out the individuals control. That's why i like to think that every action has a somewhat profound reason for its being. That's not say that i don't believe in holding people accountable for there actions. Though i do feel sympathy towards people who make poor life-decisions.
We have free will to an extent... if we had total free will the world would be chaos. Although the thought of being limited by what society claims is free will may make us want to rebel and escape, there are boundaries for a reason although some are put in store to help and protect us some are more to control us...
As soon as I think I've figured something out about life, I watch your videos and my whole belief system comes to question and yet I can't stop watching you. I love questions like this but I end up just going over and over it and going insane, how do you deal with it? back to the topic, I figured if derren brown can make us think and act in a certain way then surely we dont have free will. On the other hand we can choose whether to act upon the impulse of those triggers or not. I give up =[
I think of this often. I believe everything in nature and life are connected at one point and that everything that happens has a reason to it and a lesson you can learn; there is no coincidence. But free will? I don’t know, but I think life is partially mapped out at least and that there are lessons you have to learn during your stay on this world.
I think the reason for me watching and reacting to this video is comforting myself; a moment ago I was crying. And maybe for you to learn something.
Most people don't understand(or don't want to)that every emotion and every thought we have is a result of chemical reactions in our brain & whole body. Every living thing (humans included)is programmed to act in a way that is most likely to enable its own life and its species to be preserved.However the conscious part of our brain is only where all factors having to be taken into account when it comes to making decisions leading to the preserval of our life come together& are processed (->Freud)
I really like Daniel Dennett's view on free will. He is a Compatibilist and you are saying the exact kind of things he thinks. Watch his 'Free Will and Conciousness' video, which basically entails that all the varieties of free will we want, we can have, and we do have moral responsibility.
Ahh, the free will vs determinism debate... That's part of my A2 psychology course, and all the debates/issues are pretty interesting. I'd say it was a mixture of the two, but to what extent each one plays a part... who knows?
Free will vs determinism hmmm.... I fail to see how human beings could have 'one path' that makes our destiny. I think life is a combination of both. I think that when we are born we are presented with a web, a tangle of many possible paths or outcomes. The choices we make, determine the route we take and the overall outcome of our life.
I remember my piano teacher preaching to me telling me since I don't beleive in god I don't have any morals. I think we have free will..or hope we do. It's disturbing to think we don't
at first i wasn't following you. i just wasn't agreeing. I see now what your saying. What i've come to realize since taking many poli sci and philosophy classes is that people aren't as free as they think they are. They claim rights they do not possess and most of them aren't universal, but they think these rights are in virtue of being human and the right to free will. I'm interested in free will too, but i like going with the flow a lot more. It'd probably put me in therapy too.
very interesting [= can i ask personally; since i'm taking Psychology too- and hoping to study it in Uni aswell, how are you finding it? and what does it consist of- the course that you are doing? [=
The next video in my Subscriptions is a Philip DeFranco Video that starts with him saying "Thats insane". As I have autoplay enabled, the load was so quick that it was almost like a response to your final question, "What do you think?". I thought this was an interesting coincidence.
I do think we have free will just not as simply as we may think. I mean if somebody wanted to do something they can do it its just that others may frown upon the actions that you may do so we do not do it even though we can.
I dont think we really do. Well, we do in a sence that we can make our own choices and have our opinion etc. But there are allways restrictions, and that really bothers me. And when we do make choices, there are allways consiquences. As a teenager it really pisses me off at school, because i have a uniform., and they are strict with stuff like hair and jewelry too. We have free will, with restrictions and consiquences.
I think we are free to do what we want, but that isn't to say that what we want isn't predictable. The way we think is influenced by what you are and what you've experienced, so in that way we are restricted to act accordingly. I don't think that there's some force that is pushing us all towards our destiny, but we are who we are and that is what you can't escape.
I see the parallels between the sort of "marbles in a box" idea, but even in that situation the computer would only be able to predict the PROBABILITY that each marble would move in a certain way. I do not buy in to the idea of determinism. Sure, we all have environmental, parental and hereditary factors that may predispose us to certain fates, but the idea that everything is predetermined is both disturbing and depressing.
What I think makes humans different from other forms of life is that we can control our will. I don't think that we completely have a free-will, every choice you make is influenced by the environment you live in, what you have learned and by nature. I'm going to college next year, the choice I made to study educational science can be explained by free-will, but my interest for it isn't something I that I can influence. So no, there is no free-will, but just enjoy your life that's most important
I agree with what you last said deffinately. Even if we do not have free will, if it makes you happy to think so, and it isn't causing you to make the lives of others bad or miserable, then does it really matter what you think? I think this can be applied to mos things, religion in particular =]
In my opinion we dont have absolute free will simply because a lot of our motives, actions and decisions are born or take place outside of our awareness, within the unconscious parts of our minds.
Pure determinism is just ridiculous. At worst, we are grounded in compatibilism, but we most certainly have free-will. Deciding things with reason and rationale does not in any way negate the fact that the decisions are our own, Myles.
Why do determinists seem to think free-will = random thoughtless acts?
@JoanIsNotTheMaid I never said that. Someone else earlier on posted about compatibilism, and I stated the fact free-will is technically a variable as well.
@JoanIsNotTheMaid If it's not determined then choices must come down to a random factor, since if something has no random variable it must be determined by the things affecting it. I suppose it comes down to how you define free will, I accept that my actions and responsibility are mine, but I wouldn't say I had will over random or determined events. Perhaps my will, but not "free" will.
I disagree. If it's not determined, then choices made are products of our personal reasoning. What we do, how we act - it's based on how we're affected in life, not chemicals forcing us to choose blue over red. Of course we have free will.
My belief is that the past present and future are all happening right now. so it is less the fact that everything is predetermined and more that it has already happened. calculating free will into this scenario has me running in circles.
i understand how those people you know felt they needed councilling after getting too deep in this argument. i almost got in a similar situation, but actually this video has been good in helping me structure my thoughts and realise that it actually doesn't matter too much.
However another theory is the theory of compatibilism. This is the notion that if both free will and determinism exist they are in fact compatible.
Much of the writing on free will originated during the Enlightenment during the 18th century. Philosophers such as Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, Hume, Diderot and Kant to name only a few, which greatly influenced the emerging middles classes throughout Europe, and the relationship that people should have to government.
@mymarblesandme I think this has nailed it on the head, and in a way sits within the argument I posed... because technically free will could be the variable I speak of. People are variables.
@Blade376 However other notions still exist within philosophy- such as phenomenology and its contribution to our our existence- if free will is entirely an illusion, is it such a bad illusion to have??
First a main problem is obviously determinism and the issues that it creates. It states that the existence that we have and everything in the world around us is created by causal laws. However it is this which is basically the standard argument against free will. If true then we are not free and if indeterminism is true then our actions can be considered random and we cannot claim moral responsibility for them. Hard determinists reject free will in its entirety.
@rabbitspliff my original argument is that there is free will but that it can really be influenced pretty easily as well whether via instinct or pressure etc but also my argument was that there is no such things as destiny or any of the sorts.
myles, sorry for constantly coming back to this video and commenting and replying so much. i'm doing this all on spur of the moment thoughts that i wouldn't be able to organise into a proper video response and immediately have to write down lest i forget how i was wording my arguments. i wonder what would happen if i were to put these discussions into context of my endless typing.
Your marbles in a box as an example of something that we can totally calculate is actually a poor example. It is impossible to predict the positions of the marbles because even the tiniest unkowns in position and speed build up over mutiple collisions. In order to calculate the positions of the marbles after even quite a small number of collisions you need to know the starting conditions with INFINITE accuracy, which is impossible in both classical and quatum theory.
@glennwilliams832 he studies psychology, not physics lol. it's only supposed to be a rough (albeit oversimplified) model, not an accurate summary of how to actually calculate that which is put forth in the model itself. it's basically just a way to describe physical determinism, whether we are able to measure it or not.
Free will is interesting, in ways you can think it is (using the marble metaphor) However when it comes to more human decisions (for example the holocaust), I would think there was no human instinct involved to want to commit millions of murders and make people miserable, and thinking that those victims "destinies" were pre determined also brings up the general outlook of the universe itself so i think its neither here or there, what do you think?
@rhooker001 yeh that's a difficult one, about whether their destinies were predetermined. it all depended on the use of reasoning, questioning, judgement, rationalisation etc of those who were responsible. it was in the interests of the nazis to have a scapegoat to get the people behind them and then had to get rid of that scapegoat. to gain power was their reasoning. then they just fed lies and propaganda down the line. that's what the people based their reasoning on. shit in, shit out.
@rabbitspliff I see your point aye, but then surely it is not free will as it was not them that made the decision, it was someone else and they acted on behalf of it. I'm sure given proper rationalization any human being with any real morality would see this as bad, the human mind is a very messed up and complex organ!
@rhooker001 "but then surely it is not free will as it was not them that made the decision"...are you confusing free will with freedom? yes they didn't make the decision because they couldn't, they were oppressed and could not act against that which oppressed them. in that case it is a lack of freedom, being external, rather than a lack of free will. the best they could exercise free will would've been to fuck off out of germany asap, as many did.
@rabbitspliff my point from my statement was that allot of what they "chose to do" was not necessarily what they personally believed and came often from peer pressure coupled with a sense of nationalism which would alter how they thought or felt creating a lack of free will in many cases, with external pressures altering their judgement. And yes you are right they could have left Germany but many countries would have just imprisoned them or worse again making it an outside pressure.
@rhooker001 yeah that's basically the "shit in shit out" idea put in context of causal determinism, and because they based their actions on their input without questioning it, it questions their free will or at least use of it... sorry i can't remember your original comment, were you arguing for or against free will? tbh i don't think their fate was predetermined. they just made bad decisions.
@rhooker001 You could also reason that the Holocaust did happen because of instincts. Possibly the Nazi's felt threathened by the Jews, therefore hated them and murdered them because of their instinct to eliminate threats. Of course Hitler and his closest allies couldn't do it alone, so with some propaganda a lot of people followed him, because they believed that the Jews were the threath, at fault, or whatever.
@Elinious that to is a possibility, though I would think it was more to do with propaganda than instinct but who knows it was over 70 years ago :s but yea many factors do push people to do some crazy things so free will? probably not lol
trust you to post a video about free will after my thought trains over the past couple of days. i dunno. i took the viewpoint of causal determinist based on the idea that no sapient being can act without reason and the reason boils down to either what your inherited instinct or past experience tells you will, when reduced to your psychology, please you.
however, maybe that's a pessimistic view to take upon reason. after all, if you were to remove from that system what makes it deterministic, reducing your actions to random impulses, not only would it be like 1 step forward 2 steps back from transcending relying on instinct that mere sentient beings have, but also would have the potential to be very destructive.
anyway, reasoning which has not been committed to habit goes through a process of questioning, which is in contrast to physical determinism in that it can change the "direction" of the "force" upon it. ie the ability to be proactive rather than reactive. best not get too deep. the system works. even if reasoning enslaves us, it is a bit of a benign dictatorship in comparison to pure indeterminism.
I don't believe in conventional faith, but I do believe what is going to happen, will, unless a entity outside the universe intervenes. If you look at it at a physics p.o.v, since the big bang, all the elements are on a set course, whether partials join to make a planet, or a brain.
Like the marbles example, there is no free will if you take a scientific view that energy and mass never disappear or appear out of nowhere.
@mattvot i get you. just when i discuss free will i tend not to assume that free will follows the same laws as physical determinism which is what you're mainly describing. as i said in one of my other comments, our ability to question what we experience and to act proactively, not reactively, can change the course of things - something that conflicts with physical conservation of momentum and, as i see it, fuels progress.
in my philosophy class, we had a huge debate on whether we have free will or if we just act upon our forced actions by predestination, it was interesting discussion
I appreciate your intelligent views on free will, and I find myself agreeing with what you say. I've found myself thinking on such things often, and you put a voice to my thoughts. Thank you, and please, continue to ponder.
The brain processes are the sum total of past stimuli, which are the sum total of all past events. The only ways in which one could disagree with the determinism argument is if: a) You believe that quantum theory is a valid source of freedom and indeterminacy (but then all actions are arbitrary), b) you believe in Kant's separation of the noumenal and the phenomenal or c) you believe in a supernatural freedom, e.g. God given. All valid....
So are we marbles or not??
sweetassugarcandy 2 months ago
And no, everything is not predetermined. However, there is no free will either. Meaning, if you were to restart your life, it would certainly play out differently every time. Quantum mechanics, dude
johammbass 5 months ago
The marble thing was almost true but not exactly true. Even the most powerful computer ever would not be able to calculate the position of the marbles into any substantial future. Marbles are made out of atoms and on atomic scale there is the uncertainty principle. Study some physics, its 1000 times more interesting than psychology
johammbass 5 months ago
Have you watched Donnie Darko?
LivingStardust 5 months ago
If I act as though I have free will, it is only because I have no choice but to do so...LOL
nightvidcole 7 months ago
yes
lo0lo0007 7 months ago
Btw.. I do believe we have free will.. I cannot prove it.. I just believe it in my gut as truly and deeply as I believe my gut when it tells me I'm hungry. To the core of my very being.
sjeikbenredik 8 months ago
Well.. the subject of chance is a sentral part of physics... Determinism can neither be proven nor disproven logically.. just like the subject of God. Its like trying to prove something with itself.. Thats why people go mad.
sjeikbenredik 8 months ago
wouldn't saying that everything is predetermined imply that there is something that prederdermined it? eg god?
p.s. im an atheist.
LosDTenaces 8 months ago
Oh my goodness, i freaking love this video.
And then you've got the LOST desktop wallpaper, and dahrma wine bottle in the background! :D (yay LOST)
And your video. Very thought provoking.
XfridgeYyeahZ 10 months ago
As long as illusion of free will is FELT, and we are able to USE it, we have responsibility. If consciousness is result of matter, there's no way free will can exist. If the most inner subject in us is not a result of matter, we may have free will according to matter, but still not totally free will. Of curse these are only my assumptions.
It's not very cool nowadays to think that consciousness is base for everything, but that's how I see it.
Sorry my English.
Taaplari 11 months ago
What is your definition of decency with all respect? I don't agree with your chaplain's approach as you describe it but I must ask what your standard of decency actually is. I won't make any further comment until an answer has been provided.
SuitandTieFilms 11 months ago
you should never ask, "what do you think" unless you want an answer. One dimensionally thinking, you are right. but there is more dimensions than one.
buildflow 1 year ago
I would say that we don't have a free will from the moment tthat we live in a communinty. Bet you better just don't think off that then you just get depressed. We can make our own dicisions, but somehow we still can't do anything we want .
italktomyipod 1 year ago
got two seconds into the video and you look like a tosser, and I dont even know what a tosser is.
shawnio 1 year ago
I think you made an excellent argument for kismet.
RJentina 1 year ago
I'm in love, you can talk to me alll day lol
victoriaann1987 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I noticed that u didnt't say anything about the law- in response to the chaplain of your high school-
if you were to go out and just kill people you would be prosecuted- so perhaps you as you say, that you as a person feel the need to do good and want to be decent to other people- this may be due to your up-bringing or consequentialist view - the selfish gene as you don't want to go to prison etc.
feel free to contradict me etc xoxox
l3londel3arbie 1 year ago
I noticed that u didnt't say anything about the law- in response to the chaplain of your high school-
if you were to go out and just kill people you would be prosecuted- so perhaps you as you say, that you as a person feel the need to do good and want to be decent to other people- this may be due to your up-bringing or consequentialist view - the selfish gene as you don't want to go to prison etc.
feel free to contradict me etc xoxox
l3londel3arbie 1 year ago
Everything is pre-determined, because every event is a consequence of some previous event. But no human can actually see this, because we're looking from a subjective standpoint - being part of the whole chain. So, even if I'm not truly free, as long as I have the surprise, that's good enough for me. That's why I don't understand people who visit fortune-tellers - even if you believe in that kind of thing, why would you want to spoil the fun?
ThatBookGirl 1 year ago
Sometimes I think about this topic in terms of animal behavior. If you look through a book about how to choose your first puppy, you would read that some breeds of dogs are better with children, some tend to be very protective, etc. Pit bills, for instance, are known to be aggressive. However, we sometimes meet pit bulls who are very friendly because they were well-socialized as pups. So how much of OUR personality is based on genetics, and how much is based on environment? Or free will? Hmm...
TheNdengel 1 year ago
i think that what makes us human is the ability to be unpredictable. Without humans, or even life, every movement in the universe could be calculated, as they follow specific rules. We, as humans, are both rational and irrational. Our movements can't be calculated as easily, or at all. The ability to be unpredictable, the spanner in the works of these calculations, is what I think makes being human so special
leinadretaw 1 year ago
Philosophy <3 this is potentially the most interesting subject I've delved into this year! It does seem that indeed we only have the illusion of free will as there is insufficient evidence to flaw the determinist principle, however the people don't like the idea that there is no free will so they still choose to reject this.
Personally, I share your point of view - we only live once so why take a fatalistic approach to life? Even if my life is predetermined I'm still living and doing good :) x
RayRayOfSunshine1 1 year ago
Sure we do, what you are referring to us determinationism.
SpartxGODS 1 year ago
you have dharma red wine!! whereever did you get that!!!??
HeyIz 1 year ago
Although mildly offensive (on my part), i can see free will being as something obtained or achieved once an individual has learned to supress various external/internal influence, and focus on a more clear reality of what is most basically needed for life, in every detailed strata of a person. For instance, using your example of the person going out to get food from a restaurant. Indeed this type or "reaction" is a conditioned response, or a sort of "developed instinct".
jvals 1 year ago
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jvals 1 year ago
Even with things like urges influencing what we do, we still choose to do them. If you go down the shops because you are hungry, it is still your choice and excising freewill.
We are unpredictable even with certain variables put in place. You can't know for sure what someone is going to do untill they do it, because they always have the choice to change their minds, thanks to they're freewill.
106Tess106 1 year ago 2
@106Tess106 Here is a question. (Not typed with any malice whatsoever. just curious.) Do you think it is wrong to punish people on their tendencies? ie. prison for murderers. If not, which would be very scary, is it wrong to take precautionary measures or even stereotype in order to seemingly protect oneself? Reply if you want.
SuitandTieFilms 11 months ago
stephen pikner wrote a book a few years back called "the blank slate" when he tackles this issue. hard to disagree with his persepctive based on objective reasoning.
battim 1 year ago
@battim pinker.
battim 1 year ago
@battim I will look out for that! And it's great to hear from you again dude! Missed ya!
Blade376 1 year ago
We actually do react before we think, so no free will there. It is the thinking that justifies whether to reject it. And with the right composition of brain chemicals, we'll be able to justify our next actions rationally. Any imbalance of it, or defect of the brain hardware will result in abnormal actions. My apology for this amateurish rendition of his words lols. But neat huh? Any comments? :)
theamazingbutterhead 1 year ago
Yay! I love this subject ^^. I've read it once in a book on psychology (My Brain Made Me Do It). Interesting book, but I can't say I understand everything :\. I just pick it up out of curiosity, (I'm an accounting student). There's this interesting idea developed based on experiments which prob explains why we think we have free will over a certain extent. I don't remember it too well, but this is his explanation.
theamazingbutterhead 1 year ago
which would be what is considered to be a parallel universe. and something that reaches an even larger view would be the multiverse which would consist of varying universes with differing laws of physics.
Der3k7r 1 year ago
I think I agree with Nick0062..I think every event and conscious decision in our universe is subject to and can be explained by cause and effect. There is something I have learned about in physics that directly relates to higher dimensions and such a thing as a probability space which is the infinite amount of varying large or minute decisions we may "make" in our conscious lives and every possible different in any way universe exists in a place we cant get to from here, which would be what a
Der3k7r 1 year ago
ok i have studied psychology and my teacher made very little sense to me but that actually made sense
xannabelxleex 1 year ago
I understand what you're trying to say. I went through this thought process a while back and I came to the same conclusion - every outcome is predetermined. I may think that I have free will in posting this comment but it was an inevitability from the moment I was born because my personality, world experience, emotional persona, mental dexterity e.t.c were always going to lead me to watch this video, think the same things I just have and write these very words.
Nick0062 1 year ago 2
Wow. I can't believe that I was at vidcon and I didn't say "hi" to you. (I think I did see you though, you were talking to some chick about roads in the UK or something ?) Of course I just started watching our videos and I'm glad because they really are wonderful! Thanks again!
travelinglamb 1 year ago
Very interesting and thought provoking. I can see why thinking about it in great great detail could be quite distressing. It's certainly got me pondering! I personally think it totally depends on the way you look at it, and there's no real set answer. I believe as long as I'm able to experience things to make me feel happy and content with my life, that's enough free will for me :)
LucOutLoud 1 year ago 2
This might sound really weird but I love the way you move your lips.. you talk from one side of your mouth, it's sooo hot.. and you have really pretty eyes and great skin :) If you weren't so intelligent I'd beg you to become a model so you'd be everywhere.. but you're gonna be a star one way or another.. I mean I know you didn't record and edit 5mins of footage about your views on free will for some random girl to comment on how you look, so apologies for that, but, wow..lol
xxxLiLfAiRyGiRlxxx 1 year ago
I believe that we have free will up to a point, we are moulded to a degree by our parents and others around us. So our decisions in life are down to how we have been affected by others up until then. I also believe that these decisions are controlled (like you showed with the box and marbles) the marbles were free to move about inside the box, but they were restricted. There's only so much a person is capable of doing, and that capability is different for everyone. :)
TheVegetablearian 1 year ago
Read Kurt Vonnegut's novel "TimeQuake." After the time quake, eveyone goes back in time (10 or 15 years -- I can't remember how many). They no longer have free will. Each person must re-live their life for the next 10 years the same way. If they made a huge mistake -- they had to re-do it, again. No free will. When they finally get to the point of the main time -- people become apathetic. They no longer take action. There are car wrecks. Crazy. REad it.
WayneLilies 1 year ago
This was such an interesting video. I am currently doing a Psychology degree, we haven't gone into free will but there is a lot of research that does suggest we don't have free will. However I believe we do have free will (purely from my religious beliefs) but I can definitely see where people come from. I accept we do have a level of biological determinism but in regards to moral choices I think we do have free will.
JamesfromTA 1 year ago
You did a great job of explaining this in an accessible way. Like you said, this kind of thing is very difficult to convey through words alone. I think this is one of the most interesting questions we can ask. In the end, I think I agree with you. Free will does seem to be an illusion, but that shouldn't have any impact on the way we live our lives.
darkfunkychimp 1 year ago
who gives a fuck...
pussymoneyweed.......
ModernWarfare2Robbie 1 year ago
Very interesting video mate.
Kasamoto91 1 year ago
I don't care if I have free will or not, I still get to experience my life, and thats good enoguh for me.
Sqroob 1 year ago
It hurts my brain and gives me a nosebleed.
serephe 1 year ago
I just thought, and this is probably not going to make sense, but your free will would not pre-determine your entire life would it? There are and endless number of external factors that could or could not happen which may in turn cause you to do something depending on whether they do happen or not
CowboyFromHell93 1 year ago
You have successed in inspiring, I am going to research about free will now, will be published at the swedish site "Bilddagboken.se" of the user name Felz if you want to be updated.
xXfelzXx 1 year ago
Wow, that was very clever =)
LedaSelkie 1 year ago
Myles, you inspire me, I will now set a goal to complete high school and go to a college. Thank-You.. And when I complete my achievement I will be sure to comment on your video and give you a huge thanks! I love you dude!
Randomgamerdudes 1 year ago
Well, yeah free will is real, if not, I seem pretty happy with my decisions, I don't mind not having it, but the matrix is just gay. But wait, does that mean your 'matrix' programmed you to make this video?
CheeseGenius 1 year ago
you perfectly phrased my personal belief that "in theory, everything is predetermined" because on a molcular level, all particles only move following specific natural laws of motion and energy and no external intelligence influences them, so therefore everything happens the way it happens and it could not have happened any other way. free will is an illusion or a general term to describe human intelligence, which in fact is nothing more than a collection of chemical reactions
magnira864 1 year ago
(part3) up can change things in the brain around, then add the vast images we perceive at around 70 frames per second, the things we smell, all 5 (maybe 6) sences... It creates an uncalculatable equasion we know as life. And even if you could calculate it (which you can't) all it would prove is that the human brain has natural responces, the trouble is that's assuming there is no soul... but there might be, so in the end it's all arguing semantics, But I'm 4 free will; It's less depressing :)
lvlidnight3clipse 1 year ago
(part2) The reason I believe in free will is that the world is too complex for our brains to have everything predetermined. There's talk that a supercomputer with a virtual brain cloned from a human with cloned virtual experiences would make the same choices in the same position as a human thus negating free will.. however our brains just aren't that complex. There are trillions of connections in the brain, and what electricity goes where is based on what we eat, how we exercise, even standing
lvlidnight3clipse 1 year ago
Love the video, Free will is a hard one, and a very interesting topic... but I think in the end it's all arguing semantics, because even if we do create a super computer programed to be "human" and it seems to do all the crazy things we do, it still wouldn't prove if we had free will or not... weather we're souls controlling a body or predestined to make the choices we make. In the end I'd say we do have free will, because we can make choices... from suicide to what movie to watch tonight.
lvlidnight3clipse 1 year ago
@lvlidnight3clipse I haven't watched the video recently, but wasn't the super computer to predict the future by considering all the possible variables that result in what happens?
Nashy119 1 year ago
I will now exercise my illusory free will by making a seemingly random psychology joke: Pavlov rings my bell. There. I've done it. Suck on that, Freud!
joanaandthefox 1 year ago
you look lieek,
my ex D;
its very odddd (Y)
but, other then that i liiek your videos
andyo acccentt :) aha.
arielmichelle101 1 year ago
Agreed. Everything's been done before, will be done again, and is being done currently. Free will is a possibility, although that possibility is counterweighted against the world being predetermined.
Even if we flip a coin, total chance, as it seems to be, can never predict which will land. The guess is only that, a guess, a 50-50 chance. Was the coin landing on heads pre-determined? Was landing on tails pre-determined?
hahajipsi 1 year ago
It wouldn't let me put "nothing" and post, but if I had done it that way you would have never known. Just kind of feel like backspacing and trying again... if that answers your question?
Telemna 1 year ago
where did you get your lost wallpaper ? :D
evanescencemad666 1 year ago
We are compelled to reply to these videos against our will. A computer model of how marbles react might be able to predict the path of the marble when the surface and atmostpheric conditions are consistant but marbles react differently on different surfaces and in different enviroments. We are about programing and not all of us are aware of where our programming comes from..but we program ourselves..the people we freind the things watch, read and listen to.. that makes us who and what we are.
sTeVie4TV 1 year ago
@ChrisMcHugh Philip DeFranco tweeted a picture of a dharma symbol the other day which is the symbol on the wine bottle. Conspiracy much? xD
JoeLatta 1 year ago
you are actually moving at great speed around the Earth, around the Sun, around the Milky Way, and through the universe. Now they are coming with another theory that this is a separate universe with all its galaxies and quasars,but there are other Universes within this cosmos. Prophesy is a vision of the future that will be and before you were born every hair on your head was counted.and the end of every man is no secret not known.
phillipah7 1 year ago
For some reson I think you were trying to use some level of subliminal messaging in this video?
Am I correct or near somehow?...
If you reply, then thank you!
myboombox2 1 year ago
@myboombox2 Surely me giving an answer would take the fun out of it all =p
Blade376 1 year ago
@Blade376 So, Subliminal Messaging... Were you trying to do it?
myboombox2 1 year ago
these videos are only good when your not high
macysdabomb 1 year ago
deltaX*deltaP >or = hbar/2
i think that just about sums up why the motion of the marbles is actually random and not predictable at all, form a quantum prospective anyway. If all mater that has a momentum P haw a wave function then we have to obey the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
42Andrew42 1 year ago
I think how a person reacts to a given situation is based on his/her conditioning or how they interpret prior life-experiences. Things, i believe, that are for most part out the individuals control. That's why i like to think that every action has a somewhat profound reason for its being. That's not say that i don't believe in holding people accountable for there actions. Though i do feel sympathy towards people who make poor life-decisions.
FzzySlipprs 1 year ago
I think there's too many factors which come into this "equation" to actually say our behaviours are predetermined.
Itsooz 1 year ago
I find this subject extremely complicated. I've been trying to formulate a response for days now haha.
jayrob1202 1 year ago
We have free will to an extent... if we had total free will the world would be chaos. Although the thought of being limited by what society claims is free will may make us want to rebel and escape, there are boundaries for a reason although some are put in store to help and protect us some are more to control us...
alexgrem123 1 year ago
As soon as I think I've figured something out about life, I watch your videos and my whole belief system comes to question and yet I can't stop watching you. I love questions like this but I end up just going over and over it and going insane, how do you deal with it? back to the topic, I figured if derren brown can make us think and act in a certain way then surely we dont have free will. On the other hand we can choose whether to act upon the impulse of those triggers or not. I give up =[
twistedflamingo1 1 year ago
I think of this often. I believe everything in nature and life are connected at one point and that everything that happens has a reason to it and a lesson you can learn; there is no coincidence. But free will? I don’t know, but I think life is partially mapped out at least and that there are lessons you have to learn during your stay on this world.
I think the reason for me watching and reacting to this video is comforting myself; a moment ago I was crying. And maybe for you to learn something.
Chealder 1 year ago
you're a very smart man.
shouldveleftalready 1 year ago
somebody has had an overdose of Lost, haha.
Nitrocroc 1 year ago
We have free will... but we are incluenced by the media to spend with our free will
fingerfor 1 year ago
what the hell are you talking about hahaha.....
CodeRed2FarFromExile 1 year ago
Most people don't understand(or don't want to)that every emotion and every thought we have is a result of chemical reactions in our brain & whole body. Every living thing (humans included)is programmed to act in a way that is most likely to enable its own life and its species to be preserved.However the conscious part of our brain is only where all factors having to be taken into account when it comes to making decisions leading to the preserval of our life come together& are processed (->Freud)
pseydopuppet 1 year ago
Hahaa you should have studied Philosophy :)
I really like Daniel Dennett's view on free will. He is a Compatibilist and you are saying the exact kind of things he thinks. Watch his 'Free Will and Conciousness' video, which basically entails that all the varieties of free will we want, we can have, and we do have moral responsibility.
You're pretty awesome :)
PirateVampireNinja 1 year ago
completely agree with you on the religion part!
rachelbreannne 1 year ago
This is not a hater comment! :)
rockyrigby 1 year ago
Ahh, the free will vs determinism debate... That's part of my A2 psychology course, and all the debates/issues are pretty interesting. I'd say it was a mixture of the two, but to what extent each one plays a part... who knows?
EmmaEmmaEmma182 1 year ago
During this video I got up to take a shit, I sat on the toilet and laughed at the irony.
Then I laughed again at the irony of me laughing.
TheFatBarman 1 year ago
Free will vs determinism hmmm.... I fail to see how human beings could have 'one path' that makes our destiny. I think life is a combination of both. I think that when we are born we are presented with a web, a tangle of many possible paths or outcomes. The choices we make, determine the route we take and the overall outcome of our life.
mjhopp89 1 year ago
yes we do have free will....at least the voices that i hear think we do
jeff1232 1 year ago
I remember my piano teacher preaching to me telling me since I don't beleive in god I don't have any morals. I think we have free will..or hope we do. It's disturbing to think we don't
therampantbookworm 1 year ago
you want know if you have free will
well if your happy with your job and life and you have to the time to do what you like when you like to do it
then you have free will
you dont need a PHD to find out if you got free will or not
the munite you cant do what you want for your self thats when you know you have no free will
or you get up in the moreing and cant have a good cup of coffee then you know you lost it
glenanimals 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I need new glasses.
I thought the headline is "Do we have free wii?"
LOL
yixxen 1 year ago
I need new glasses.
I thought the headline is "Do we have free wii?"
LOL
yixxen 1 year ago
I need new glasses!
i thought the headline is "Do we have free wii?"
LOL
yixxen 1 year ago
I find your mind extremely attractive. :)
CeraMACd 1 year ago
at first i wasn't following you. i just wasn't agreeing. I see now what your saying. What i've come to realize since taking many poli sci and philosophy classes is that people aren't as free as they think they are. They claim rights they do not possess and most of them aren't universal, but they think these rights are in virtue of being human and the right to free will. I'm interested in free will too, but i like going with the flow a lot more. It'd probably put me in therapy too.
lysmeanslily 1 year ago
very interesting [= can i ask personally; since i'm taking Psychology too- and hoping to study it in Uni aswell, how are you finding it? and what does it consist of- the course that you are doing? [=
CamsterdamSPguy 1 year ago
Mindfuuuuuck.
pOWeRbYeVIL 1 year ago
The next video in my Subscriptions is a Philip DeFranco Video that starts with him saying "Thats insane". As I have autoplay enabled, the load was so quick that it was almost like a response to your final question, "What do you think?". I thought this was an interesting coincidence.
ChrisMcHugh 1 year ago 5
@ChrisMcHugh Haha someone posted this on twitter a couple of days ago! Hilarious! =]
Blade376 1 year ago 3
I do think we have free will just not as simply as we may think. I mean if somebody wanted to do something they can do it its just that others may frown upon the actions that you may do so we do not do it even though we can.
CookieMonzta1995 1 year ago
I dont think we really do. Well, we do in a sence that we can make our own choices and have our opinion etc. But there are allways restrictions, and that really bothers me. And when we do make choices, there are allways consiquences. As a teenager it really pisses me off at school, because i have a uniform., and they are strict with stuff like hair and jewelry too. We have free will, with restrictions and consiquences.
Gee1078 1 year ago
Dharma Red Wine FTW lol
NickFisher1994 1 year ago 7
I think we are free to do what we want, but that isn't to say that what we want isn't predictable. The way we think is influenced by what you are and what you've experienced, so in that way we are restricted to act accordingly. I don't think that there's some force that is pushing us all towards our destiny, but we are who we are and that is what you can't escape.
tesscrazy 1 year ago
i just watched a duckling feed koi carp, does the duck have free will?
orbweb13 1 year ago
Dharma Initiative Red Wine. How come it's not in a box?
bmp011 1 year ago
I really enjoyed this video, and much prefer your serious take on subjects; please add more to this end of the scale
mattbridges110 1 year ago
this is probably one of my favourite things to think about. Thanks for letting me know another perspective
BecamonBlackinton 1 year ago
I see the parallels between the sort of "marbles in a box" idea, but even in that situation the computer would only be able to predict the PROBABILITY that each marble would move in a certain way. I do not buy in to the idea of determinism. Sure, we all have environmental, parental and hereditary factors that may predispose us to certain fates, but the idea that everything is predetermined is both disturbing and depressing.
electricbubbles 1 year ago
What I think makes humans different from other forms of life is that we can control our will. I don't think that we completely have a free-will, every choice you make is influenced by the environment you live in, what you have learned and by nature. I'm going to college next year, the choice I made to study educational science can be explained by free-will, but my interest for it isn't something I that I can influence. So no, there is no free-will, but just enjoy your life that's most important
d1i2e3u4 1 year ago
I have free will! it's sitting on my DVD shelf!........ oh no... that's "Free Willy"
TheFussyVlog 1 year ago 2
I agree with what you last said deffinately. Even if we do not have free will, if it makes you happy to think so, and it isn't causing you to make the lives of others bad or miserable, then does it really matter what you think? I think this can be applied to mos things, religion in particular =]
Jonnyeth 1 year ago
Of course I have free will; I dont have a choice.
SunriseFusion 1 year ago 16
That kinda blew my mind xD
KimGrangerTeeHee 1 year ago
In my opinion we dont have absolute free will simply because a lot of our motives, actions and decisions are born or take place outside of our awareness, within the unconscious parts of our minds.
masterofpuppets75700 1 year ago
Pure determinism is just ridiculous. At worst, we are grounded in compatibilism, but we most certainly have free-will. Deciding things with reason and rationale does not in any way negate the fact that the decisions are our own, Myles.
Why do determinists seem to think free-will = random thoughtless acts?
JoanIsNotTheMaid 1 year ago
@JoanIsNotTheMaid I never said that. Someone else earlier on posted about compatibilism, and I stated the fact free-will is technically a variable as well.
Blade376 1 year ago
@JoanIsNotTheMaid If it's not determined then choices must come down to a random factor, since if something has no random variable it must be determined by the things affecting it. I suppose it comes down to how you define free will, I accept that my actions and responsibility are mine, but I wouldn't say I had will over random or determined events. Perhaps my will, but not "free" will.
Nashy119 1 year ago
@Nashy119
I disagree. If it's not determined, then choices made are products of our personal reasoning. What we do, how we act - it's based on how we're affected in life, not chemicals forcing us to choose blue over red. Of course we have free will.
JoanIsNotTheMaid 1 year ago
@JoanIsNotTheMaid Haven't you just replaced the word determined with 'based'?
Nashy119 1 year ago
@Nashy119
Uhm, no, not at all. The words mean completely different things.
JoanIsNotTheMaid 1 year ago
Ground control to Major Tom.....
evanAmazing 1 year ago
You are very awesome...and a real inspiration...!!!!
Pyben0 1 year ago
It's nice seeing a video from you in my sub box again! :)
LicencetoVlog 1 year ago
We are like a bunch of sims on God's computer.... Hmmm... fascinating
LandofDiskette 1 year ago
Yet again, Myles, you impress me with your intellect and curiosity. Well done!
b2outwit 1 year ago
My belief is that the past present and future are all happening right now. so it is less the fact that everything is predetermined and more that it has already happened. calculating free will into this scenario has me running in circles.
chaosnobody 1 year ago
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mymarblesandme 1 year ago
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mymarblesandme 1 year ago
@mymarblesandme are you just copypasting wikipedia?
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
@rabbitspliff Nope- philosophy notes and textbook quotes - My degree is in philosophy (cos I'm cool like that!)
mymarblesandme 1 year ago
okay. 1 more comment then i'm off for some sleep.
i understand how those people you know felt they needed councilling after getting too deep in this argument. i almost got in a similar situation, but actually this video has been good in helping me structure my thoughts and realise that it actually doesn't matter too much.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
Comment removed
mymarblesandme 1 year ago
However another theory is the theory of compatibilism. This is the notion that if both free will and determinism exist they are in fact compatible.
Much of the writing on free will originated during the Enlightenment during the 18th century. Philosophers such as Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, Hume, Diderot and Kant to name only a few, which greatly influenced the emerging middles classes throughout Europe, and the relationship that people should have to government.
mymarblesandme 1 year ago
@mymarblesandme I think this has nailed it on the head, and in a way sits within the argument I posed... because technically free will could be the variable I speak of. People are variables.
Blade376 1 year ago
@Blade376 However other notions still exist within philosophy- such as phenomenology and its contribution to our our existence- if free will is entirely an illusion, is it such a bad illusion to have??
mymarblesandme 1 year ago
First a main problem is obviously determinism and the issues that it creates. It states that the existence that we have and everything in the world around us is created by causal laws. However it is this which is basically the standard argument against free will. If true then we are not free and if indeterminism is true then our actions can be considered random and we cannot claim moral responsibility for them. Hard determinists reject free will in its entirety.
mymarblesandme 1 year ago
Really great video- quality subject matter, very intriguing. Im glad I watched this.
WreckedRadio 1 year ago
@rabbitspliff my original argument is that there is free will but that it can really be influenced pretty easily as well whether via instinct or pressure etc but also my argument was that there is no such things as destiny or any of the sorts.
rhooker001 1 year ago
myles, sorry for constantly coming back to this video and commenting and replying so much. i'm doing this all on spur of the moment thoughts that i wouldn't be able to organise into a proper video response and immediately have to write down lest i forget how i was wording my arguments. i wonder what would happen if i were to put these discussions into context of my endless typing.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
Your marbles in a box as an example of something that we can totally calculate is actually a poor example. It is impossible to predict the positions of the marbles because even the tiniest unkowns in position and speed build up over mutiple collisions. In order to calculate the positions of the marbles after even quite a small number of collisions you need to know the starting conditions with INFINITE accuracy, which is impossible in both classical and quatum theory.
glennwilliams832 1 year ago
@glennwilliams832 he studies psychology, not physics lol. it's only supposed to be a rough (albeit oversimplified) model, not an accurate summary of how to actually calculate that which is put forth in the model itself. it's basically just a way to describe physical determinism, whether we are able to measure it or not.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
Very interesting. I like your vids, because they make me think.
klynik 1 year ago 2
hi myles
whoshify 1 year ago
Free will is interesting, in ways you can think it is (using the marble metaphor) However when it comes to more human decisions (for example the holocaust), I would think there was no human instinct involved to want to commit millions of murders and make people miserable, and thinking that those victims "destinies" were pre determined also brings up the general outlook of the universe itself so i think its neither here or there, what do you think?
rhooker001 1 year ago
@rhooker001 yeh that's a difficult one, about whether their destinies were predetermined. it all depended on the use of reasoning, questioning, judgement, rationalisation etc of those who were responsible. it was in the interests of the nazis to have a scapegoat to get the people behind them and then had to get rid of that scapegoat. to gain power was their reasoning. then they just fed lies and propaganda down the line. that's what the people based their reasoning on. shit in, shit out.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
@rabbitspliff I see your point aye, but then surely it is not free will as it was not them that made the decision, it was someone else and they acted on behalf of it. I'm sure given proper rationalization any human being with any real morality would see this as bad, the human mind is a very messed up and complex organ!
rhooker001 1 year ago
@rhooker001 "but then surely it is not free will as it was not them that made the decision"...are you confusing free will with freedom? yes they didn't make the decision because they couldn't, they were oppressed and could not act against that which oppressed them. in that case it is a lack of freedom, being external, rather than a lack of free will. the best they could exercise free will would've been to fuck off out of germany asap, as many did.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
@rabbitspliff my point from my statement was that allot of what they "chose to do" was not necessarily what they personally believed and came often from peer pressure coupled with a sense of nationalism which would alter how they thought or felt creating a lack of free will in many cases, with external pressures altering their judgement. And yes you are right they could have left Germany but many countries would have just imprisoned them or worse again making it an outside pressure.
rhooker001 1 year ago
@rhooker001 yeah that's basically the "shit in shit out" idea put in context of causal determinism, and because they based their actions on their input without questioning it, it questions their free will or at least use of it... sorry i can't remember your original comment, were you arguing for or against free will? tbh i don't think their fate was predetermined. they just made bad decisions.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
@rhooker001 You could also reason that the Holocaust did happen because of instincts. Possibly the Nazi's felt threathened by the Jews, therefore hated them and murdered them because of their instinct to eliminate threats. Of course Hitler and his closest allies couldn't do it alone, so with some propaganda a lot of people followed him, because they believed that the Jews were the threath, at fault, or whatever.
Elinious 1 year ago
@Elinious that to is a possibility, though I would think it was more to do with propaganda than instinct but who knows it was over 70 years ago :s but yea many factors do push people to do some crazy things so free will? probably not lol
rhooker001 1 year ago
One of your slowest videos.
VideoGosGos 1 year ago
trust you to post a video about free will after my thought trains over the past couple of days. i dunno. i took the viewpoint of causal determinist based on the idea that no sapient being can act without reason and the reason boils down to either what your inherited instinct or past experience tells you will, when reduced to your psychology, please you.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
however, maybe that's a pessimistic view to take upon reason. after all, if you were to remove from that system what makes it deterministic, reducing your actions to random impulses, not only would it be like 1 step forward 2 steps back from transcending relying on instinct that mere sentient beings have, but also would have the potential to be very destructive.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
anyway, reasoning which has not been committed to habit goes through a process of questioning, which is in contrast to physical determinism in that it can change the "direction" of the "force" upon it. ie the ability to be proactive rather than reactive. best not get too deep. the system works. even if reasoning enslaves us, it is a bit of a benign dictatorship in comparison to pure indeterminism.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
I believe in God and that he instill in us free will and that they are consequences in our decisions.
DianaH18 1 year ago
I don't believe in conventional faith, but I do believe what is going to happen, will, unless a entity outside the universe intervenes. If you look at it at a physics p.o.v, since the big bang, all the elements are on a set course, whether partials join to make a planet, or a brain.
Like the marbles example, there is no free will if you take a scientific view that energy and mass never disappear or appear out of nowhere.
Now.... I bet that don't make sense :o
mattvot 1 year ago
@mattvot i get you. just when i discuss free will i tend not to assume that free will follows the same laws as physical determinism which is what you're mainly describing. as i said in one of my other comments, our ability to question what we experience and to act proactively, not reactively, can change the course of things - something that conflicts with physical conservation of momentum and, as i see it, fuels progress.
rabbitspliff 1 year ago
in my philosophy class, we had a huge debate on whether we have free will or if we just act upon our forced actions by predestination, it was interesting discussion
xoLiveTheDreamox 1 year ago
I appreciate your intelligent views on free will, and I find myself agreeing with what you say. I've found myself thinking on such things often, and you put a voice to my thoughts. Thank you, and please, continue to ponder.
CatDragonfang 1 year ago
This really makes me miss Crossmack ......... NOT
dweek123 1 year ago
The brain processes are the sum total of past stimuli, which are the sum total of all past events. The only ways in which one could disagree with the determinism argument is if: a) You believe that quantum theory is a valid source of freedom and indeterminacy (but then all actions are arbitrary), b) you believe in Kant's separation of the noumenal and the phenomenal or c) you believe in a supernatural freedom, e.g. God given. All valid....
l0vej3ss13 1 year ago
@l0vej3ss13 "The only ways in which one could disagree with the determinism argument is if..."
Is if you bother looking at the world around you.
gmdinformation 1 year ago
it's all about subconsciousness
tigidin 1 year ago
If I really had free will, I would have been able to shut off that Geico ad that made sit here and wait for your thoughts to start.
robertbangkok 1 year ago