"...a part of me is dead and in the ground" (J/7)

[xenafan15]

I'm sorry but NOBODY can say that there was nothing going on between them (sub text or otherwise) cause she did everything to go back and save Seven! It's J/7 all the way for me :D Awesome vid!! <3

[trekintandem]

@xenafan15 Thanks! I agree: KJ's devotion is strong subtext in itself. It's not just the devotion b/c I think she'd have done the same for any of her crew (thinking of "Dark Frontier" instead of "Endgame"); it's the fact that she never doubted that 7 had stayed with the Borg only under duress, even when her officers were telling her that 7 had been untrustworthy from the start & she was well rid of her. J went back for 7 so MANY times. 7 sure seemed to be her primary motivation in "Endgame."

[greenwitchflying]

I LOVE THIS! Thank you.

[Guitarplayintreker]

Love Janeway's sudden change of heart in endgame,

Maintains "We cant change the timeline!"

"Seven of Nine is going to die."

"Kay, lets go change the timeline..." (Not direct quotes!!!)

[trekintandem]

@Guitarplayintreker Me too! :-D And what do you mean those aren't direct quotes? That's pretty much how I remember it. ;-)

[Guitarplayintreker]

@trekintandem I am inclined to agree ha ha, its the look on Janeway's face when she realised Seven got married too! she looks like someone shot her puppy (Or broke her heart...) I thought surely she would have shot Chakotay, "Seven is mine, if you want your own, grow a pair and go fight the borg yourself!" I could happily rant for ages on that topic ha ha, but for the sake of others' sanity I will refrain! ;-)

[trekintandem]

@Guitarplayintreker Yeah, that reaction was a J/7er's dream. :-) Then there's that moment in sickbay when the admiral sees Seven for the first time and is pulled to her feet by the sight. Nice. And CAN'T leave the "people who love you" conversation out of such a list either. As for C/7--erk. The less said, the better. I mostly just pretend it didn't happen, which I find perfectly reasonable since it was so poorly executed.

[Guitarplayintreker]

@trekintandem I know! one moment he hates her and is trying his damndest to get her thrown off the ship next he's trying to get in there???? WTH?

Don't know why the feh Seven would want to go with that overbearing, janeway questioning twit! I mean, after Equinox Chakotay just turned compleatly against Janeway. Is it just me thats noticed this?

I have to agree with you on the "People who love you" line, The admiral nearly chokes when saying it! you just want Seven to hug her afterwards!

[trekintandem]

@Guitarplayintreker It sounds like we think a lot alike! I also feel that Chakotay betrayed Janeway and became a completely unacceptable character as a result. Personally, I date the betrayal as far back as "Scorpion" when he took the first opportunity--and took advantage of her being so severely injured, no less--to disobey her orders and destroy her carefully constructed alliance with the Borg. TBC

[trekintandem]

@Guitarplayintreker At the end, they made up and KJ pretended he was confined to quarters so he could move against Seven when she tried to take over the ship; I wanted him to REALLY be relieved of duty and confined to the BRIG. I can't believe Janeway didn't punish him. He should have been in the brig again in Equinox. I HATE him in that episode, and I abhor the final scene when KJ suggests he was right. WTF! *ahem* *grin*

[trekintandem]

@Guitarplayintreker You know, while the betrayals came a bit later, I feel like Chakotay was ALWAYS the bad angel on Janeway's shoulder, attempting to tempt her off the right path, always urging her to settle down and stop trying to get home any time an obstacle cropped up. Grrrr. I can't remember all the episodes to name them, alas. Except for "Resolutions," of course. What a jerk he was in that one.

[Guitarplayintreker]

@trekintandem Again you have hit the nail right on the head with that one! Chakotay is such a self serving prig. he couldnt stand no longer being in charge and so decided to make every desicion as hard as possible for Janeway, if I were her he would have had a nasty accident involving a transporter a leeola root and a paper clip (I'll let your imagination do the magic!) around about episode 3 (series 1) I couldnt stand him even in the first flipping episode!

[Guitarplayintreker]

@Guitarplayintreker I remember watching Voyager, (When it was being orignally played, think it was series 3, I think I was about three...) and thinking he was a back stabbing arse then, I mean if a five year old me (Who spent her time walking into things) could realise he was bad for Janeway then by god the flipping cast should have realised! your right we do seem to think rather alike on this topic and have the determination to argue! I should have done this for my A-level english arguing pres!

[Guitarplayintreker]

@Guitarplayintreker The seeds of betrayl were always there I am surprised that Chakotay didnt try and get Janeway arrested once back in the alpha quadrant he strikes me as that sort of petty character, she obviously damaged his male pride, after 'resolutions' he began to go into uber todi mode! she obv turned him down. he was like a friken dog on heat in that episode, I would use stronger language, but public posting and all that :) I compleatly agree with you on the resolution front...

[Guitarplayintreker]

@Guitarplayintreker if he liked playing woodsman so much they should have left him on that bloomin planet and saved Janeway from five and a bit more years of him questioning every single flipping desicion!!! What happened to "She's the captain" Flipping hypocrtite 'mutter mutter'... Plus he spet the whole epidsode trying to... Come on!!!

two posts up my memories are sorta hazy but I remember sitting at five(Fan @3) thinking "What a twit" it was the strongest word I knew at that age alas! :)

[Seaserpent08]

what episode is at 2:03, I cant remember?

[omgmyspacebeforsure]

Were they lesbians or something?

[strangestkidaround]

great job

[frederickbabyyeah]

I LOVE this pairing :D and the video amazing song

[wsterner]

Everytime I hear this song on the radio I think of this video. Good Job!

[Nfan22]

Very good, I like it, cant get enough it! 5 Stars!

[trekintandem]

Thanks! :)

[trekfan2539]

Janeway looks so sad!! :( .... But good video

[trekintandem]

Thanks! And she's happy by the end. :D

[GrifxThexMighty]

Very well done! Kudos! I loved it.

[trekintandem]

Thanks! I'm glad.

[JCallthewaynotC7]

love the video. 3:05-3:10 was the best part for me. captain janeway looks and sees her love[seven] with chakotay[ex love...damn scorpion....] and i can see pain there...geez. but yeah great vid. i really think J7 would have worked out if C7 hadn't come along...or even JC....damn writers....

[trekintandem]

Thanks! I like that bit too. ('Course I don't think of C as her former love but I'm happy it resonated on the right level for you.)

[JCallthewaynotC7]

Hm...Well I don't really seem C as her "former lover", but something was there. Hm...I'm confusing. lol.

[cooro987]

Well it could work for them to be together. But I bet the people who wrote Voyager wanted their relationship to be of a mother and daughter. And it really does work.Since Janeway freed her from the collective and then taught her things about human nature.She basically told Seven everything she needed to know of the (outside world)And isnt that what a mother is supposed to do?Teach you everything or close to it what you need to know to get about in the outside world?

[cooro987]

Oh and sorry I didnt have enough space for this. Thank you for putting this up its awsome!!!!Rocken vid!

[trekintandem]

Thanks! We all see what we want to see.  I won't say that there's no room for an interpretation of this relationship as a purely platonic relationship. I just feel, as I've said before, that the impulse to label it mother/daughter is reductive--that it forces it into a category that people feel comfortable with and that such categorizing prevent people from expanding their understanding.

[trekintandem]

I doubt that, in the planning stage, the TPTB gave much thought at all to what kind of relationship 7 would have with KJ beyond the initial antagonism. ;-) I have a hard time accepting the teaching relationship you've proposed because of how often KJ tried to get 7 to see things as she saw them only to run up against 7's own strong will and divergent viewpoint.

[trekintandem]

Sev does come around to a more "human" way of thinking in at least some areas but I can't recall any moment when this happens as a result of KJ taking advantage of a Teaching Moment. In fact, the writers seemed to use that device--KJ taking a Teaching Moment--to highlight the divergence in their worldviews and set the two at odds.

[trekintandem]

To the extent she can be said to "learn" from Janeway, I think she "learns" by example so that a growing respect for KJ and thus for her way of life influences 7 to adopt some aspects of that way of life for herself.

[cooro987]

Yes but (I wont argue with you) thats just like a mother and a daughter. The mother tries to force something on the kid but when the kids old enough they have their own idea of whats right and their own proposels and or viewpoints. You know?

[nephalos666]

I hated how they had all that great subtext between Captain Janeway and Seven but never DID anything with it. It's maddening to watch sometimes. The best scene that comes to mind between these two is in the episode "The Voyager Conspiracy" when Kathryn is talking to Seven onboard the Flyer trying to get her to believe in her again. That was the perfect setup for a love confession from Janeway to Seven. Annnnnd they let it go to waste. T_T Great vid with an awesome song!

[trekintandem]

Thanks! That scene on the Flyer is a great classic, isn't it? One of a similar nature that you brought to my mind is the astrometrics scene in "Imperfection," particularly when KJ tells Seven that if she's having trouble accepting her condition, it's not because she's disappointed in Seven's progress but because she doesn't want to lose a friend. *grin* Another grand opportunity for a confession! This is a fun game. :-D

[PhiUr2]

Inspiring.

[trekintandem]

Thanks!

[cfrbkjkf]

I've seen you video for just more than one time and I still like it - you've chosen an really good fitting song (Who is it who sings it?) and the video make me watching the whole "Endgame" again. Thank you and keep on doing such great work.

[trekintandem]

Thanks!  The song is "It's not Over" by Chris Daughtry.

[7eventheaven]

Just rewatched this vid for the first time in far too long and reminded of how good it is and how much I like it! The only J/7 vid in my curent favourites list *G*

Hope you're doing ok trek

[trekintandem]

Thanks, 7eventh! I'm fine, just busy, and will surely be making another vid when I have time. I'm hope you're doing ok, too.

[bgibb101]

Must you Americans ruin everything with your crappy music?

[KINGDOMoftheORION]

I think the point of "Endgame" was that after 7 seasons of watching Capt. Janeway follow Starfleet protocols, Adm. Janeway gets to say "to heck with protocols" and does her own thing. To me it was a very liberating episode. And since she saves 7 of 9 I didn't mind Janeway "polluting" the timeline. I think it follows the desire of most human beings to alter truth in regards to loved ones who've passed in favor of an easier, softer truth. Just my two cents, though. hehe

[trekintandem]

I'm in complete agreement with you on the desire to undo one's losses. I'm still ambivalent about Janeway seemingly throwing away what I'd think was a very important principle to her. Of course, her motivations for doing so make it a wonderful story (even without a J/7 lens). That they didn't rationalize her behavior by casting it as "setting the timeline right" makes it quite thought-provoking too.

[angylgrrl]

awesome vid! J/7 have such chemistry it aint funny!

[trekintandem]

Thanks :D They are great together, aren't they?

[angylgrrl]

yes they are!

[Orione]

Everything I love about J/7 in one angsty video! Great job! :)

[trekintandem]

Thanks!

[tuckatangent]

Loved this clip, what a great J/7 vid! I think I also prefer this truncated version to what we got.

[trekintandem]

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

[tenblade]

Stunning clip! I absolutely loved it--what a pitch perfect song for some incredible moments. Gave me a new appreciation for Endgame, which although admittedly filled with subtext, was still disappointing. I think I prefer this truncated version. :D

[trekintandem]

Thanks very much! I have been somewhat disappointed with Endgame at times too. While I love two KJs and the idea of the elder's sacrifice, I've always thought it seemed a little off for any Janeway to erase a timeline, given the emphasis that Trek has put on not doing things like that (except in cases where the timeline in question is the result of some kind of tampering or anomlous influence and so should not have happened). ;-)

[trekintandem]

And then, of course, C/7 was just absurd--not to mention a blatant slap in the face of JCers and J7ers alike . . . and K/7ers and EMH/7ers. It seemed TPTB wanted to give us all the finger. But I did like the potential J7 subtext of course. So I pick and choose. Given that much of an invitation, who could resist? Glad you like my version!

[burgesshillbadgirl]

It is about assumptions, and what you were saying about stereotypical roles. People will assume it is one thing until it's pointed out to them that it might just be something else. :)

[burgesshillbadgirl]

Most people won't think beyond a typical mentorial relationship because they simply aren't interested, you'd have to draw their attention to it or spike their interest in order for them to look at it with more of an open mind. I got into J7 by coming across a fanfic one day online, it had never crossed my mind to look twice at them before, but then on after I took notice.

[trekintandem]

I think you're right. "The words are what you make them." When I start thinking about subjects like this, I tend to become too analytical for most people's tastes. Heh. I'm not out to convert everyone to J/7 (stop laughing, folks!) and I can definitely understand why people would not see a romantic pairing there. I just have a little personal beef against the over use of "maternal." ;-)

[burgesshillbadgirl]

I think to be honest the words are what you make them, the word guardian has come to mean something other than protector in recent years because of the nature of the family is changing and that the "nuclear family" has all but disappeared.

[burgesshillbadgirl]

I don't feel that maternal is an appropriate way to describe it really, I'm not comfortable with it because it's very restrictive and doesn't allow for other sorts of bonds and relationships to form, the types of which I believe did between J and 7.

[burgesshillbadgirl]

You'd like to think that in the 24th century, when hang ups about sexuality are long gone, that even if she had not been with women before, her attractiveness would not be lost on Janeway. Whether she understands, or feels it appropriate to act upon what she feels however, is another matter, and could explain why J7 was confined to subtext for the most part.

[trekintandem]

For some reason, I feel TPTB weren't thinking quite so hard about J/7 as to have a reason worked out for why it wasn't happening on screen--more's the pity. *grin* But fic writers have certainly explored the Janeway-feels-it's-inappropria­te angle!

[trekintandem]

Janeway is the more attractive of the two characters to me. I'd rave about Janeway's sexiness but not Seven's. What attractiveness Seven has for me stems from her character rather than her appearance. In my conception of J/7, that's what would originally draw KJ as well, of course.

...Janeway's character, personality, etc. were certainly what originally drew me to HER, too. But these things imbued her with sexiness in a way that didn't happen with Seven.

[trekintandem]

I agree w/ you that in the Trekiverse there would no longer be any hangups of that kind--and that Seven's sex wouldn't present an obstacle for Janeway. I think if she had such feelings for Seven, she'd understand them for what they were, but yes she might feel for a variety of reasons that acting on them would be inappropriate. My favorite reason, the one I find most realistic, would be Seven's vulnerable position.

[burgesshillbadgirl]

I really don't like the use of the word maternal either but I used it in absence of another word. I suppose "guardian" would perhaps be better? Janeway did seem to be that role for Seven at least intially, and one might assume when they return to Earth, to prevent those who might be interested in harming Seven, from doing so.

[trekintandem]

I would find a statement that Janeway acted as Seven's "guardian" more acceptable than a description of her attitude to Seven as being "maternal." Indeed she did originally, and rather explicitly, assume something not unlike guardian's rights (or power of attorney?) in the beginning--as when she told Seven she'd make the decision about returning to the Collective until she felt Seven was competent to make that decision for herself.

[trekintandem]

I think KJ is in a sense a guardian (protector/defender/provider) for all of her crew--and also takes on this role for outsiders at times, which is in keeping with Starfleet ideals regarding the rendering of aid and the general role Starfleet seems to play in the Federation. tbc

[trekintandem]

So "guardian" in the sense of "one who protects" certainly works for me, although the connotation the word has when used to refer to a child's legal guardian seems, after a very short time, to be inappropriate to the J7 relationship because it would cast Seven as a child, or the equivalent in terms of competence, and become another way of describing Janeway as "maternal." *grin*

[trekintandem]

I think it's very difficult to find one word that describes Janeway's attitude to Seven or the role she plays in relation to Seven--but I'm glad their relationship is that complex.

[burgesshillbadgirl]

Hi trekintandem

I was thinknig about what you and AussieLek were saying and thinking, I can see where both of you are coming from...there are maternal elements to their relationship, especially at the beginning. But mostly this stems from, I believe, Janeway's desire to protect 7 because she sees her as vulnerable, which in many ways (emotionally, for example) she is. However, this doesn't preclude other sorts of feelings from developing. 7 is a fully grown, attractive(!!!) young woman.

[trekintandem]

Hi Burgess! Where I seem to differ from a whole lot people is in my unwillingness to name those elements (the protective instinct, for instance) maternal. I'd need way more space than given here to really discuss why. But basically it seems to be giving in to patriarchial assumptions about gender, reducing and women to a role to which society confined them for far too long.

[AussieLek]

Never really saw Janeway and seven as an item in the seris. I always saw them as mother and duaghter and for some this may be a remantic one between the two but for me I see it more as a mother trying protect her daughter. You have done a great job on this and sorry if I interupterated it wrong :)

I love it anyways :D

[trekintandem]

Thanks, Aussie. Glad you liked it. You're not alone in your interpretation of J/7. Personally (and I'm speaking in general not about you in particular), I feel that people categorize nurturing relationships between women as maternal far too casually, especially if one of the women is of a certain age. tbc

[trekintandem]

And we all see things through the lens of our own experience. You might find it interesting to rewatch certain episodes of VOY with an eye to potentially romantic/flirtatious J7 subtext. I know some folks, even a few diehard JC 'shippers, who've done so and been quite surprised.

Again, glad you enjoyed the vid and thanks for the compliments!

[AussieLek]

I saw an episode recently like that :)

I have noticed some bits along the way just think to me there was more of maternal relationship but I would okay with a relationshipwith them, it would be nice,:D

and thanks

[trekintandem]

:-) I'm curious; which episode was it?

[AussieLek]

I forget the name but it was on the Australian Foxtels Sci-Fi Channel probally about a month or so ago. (I know my sence of time is awful :P)It was past season 5 maybe early six or late six, I am not sure :(

[trekintandem]

Afraid I don't get that channel. You can describe if you'd like and we'll see how good we are. ;-)

[burgesshillbadgirl]

I noticed a couple of things, at 0:33 is she really giving Chakotay and 7 that jealous look while they talk or is that something you put together?

[trekintandem]

*Grins* Good eye!

KJ wasn't really in astrometrics when Seven had that little scene with Chakotay.

[burgesshillbadgirl]

I agree with the original comment, it really articulates Janeway's frustration and despair on hearing that 7 will die and also about Chakotay getting together with 7...that look when she sees the behind her on the bridge at 3:10 is priceless, and also when the admiral tells her 7 is going to die...anyone who doesn't see subtext is blind!!! very good vid, fits very well, great song choice too!!

[trekintandem]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate such a detailed response. I'm particularly fond of how that look at 3:10 works in the vid myself, so I'm very glad it worked for someone else in the same way I saw it. :-)

[swedentrekkie]

Wow! Great song for a great love story

[trekintandem]

Thank you! :D

[Subacca]

Damn you for making me appreciate a Daughtry song. :P Very well done!

[trekintandem]

lol! Thank you.

[VoyagerSevenOfNine]

fabulous! j/7 rocks, great work!!

[trekintandem]

Thanks!

[doroanne]

Love it! It's a great pairing of the montage and the music. It really works!

[trekintandem]

Thank you!

[Jantek36]

I fucking love this have watched/listened to it so many times - one of THE best J/7 videos EVER! And I've watched them all!!!! ;)

[trekintandem]

Amazingly high praise! Thanks so much. :-)

[Jantek36]

Awesome vid that song is so J/7..

[ponfreshxl1]

what song is this?

[trekintandem]

As noted at the end of the video and in the tags, the song is Chris Daughtry's "It's Not Over."

[captainmickey2]

Another wonderful video!

[trekintandem]

Thanks very much!

[cubisticsumo]

Loved it! Keep up the fine work!

[trekintandem]

Thanks very much!  I'll certainly try. :-)